134. Cathy D. Fyock | The Writer Crisis Hotline

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books.

During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better.

In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Kathy Fiac, the business book strategist and author of several books along with Blog to Book, The Speaker Author, her upcoming release, The Writer Crisis Hotline, and more. Kathy is a former HR consultant who turned into a book writing coach and Wall Street Journal bestselling author who works with professionals and thought leaders who want to write a book as a business development strategy. In this industry edition episode, you'll learn about the tools for writing a book, strategies for overcoming the negative voice and just getting to work, why books are important for business growth, and more. If you're an aspiring author or have hesitated on that idea of writing a book, this is for you. By the way, Kathy is hosting a writing retreat in Louisville, Kentucky, October 12th through 14th, 2023.

If you've been waiting for a sign to write that book, this is it.

Go to KathyFioc.com to learn more.

Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Kathy Faye Hawk.

Kathy, the Business Book Strategist. Welcome to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. I'd love to kick things off with a little introduction. Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about you and how you got the nickname the Business Book Strategist?

Well, it's kind of a funny story in that I never had planned to be a book coach, never in a million years. In fact, I'll tell you right now that I don't really even enjoy writing. I think it's really, really hard work. So the fact that I'm a book coach, I think, is very funny. But before I was a book coach, I was a human resources consultant and did speaking training and authoring books. On the topic, and I owned my business for many, many years, and then went to work on a team and decided I was really not good on the team. I really needed to be my own boss. But I was thinking, what am I gonna do? What? What do I want to do? HR consulting? I don't think so. But what's next? So I get a call out of the blue from my president of the National Speakers. Association, the chapter in Kentucky. And the president said, Kathi, I heard a rumor that you have written your books in less than 6 weeks. Is that right? And I said, well, actually, yes, it is true. I've written 4 of my 5 books in about 6 weeks. He goes, that is amazing. He said, do you have a process? And I thought, hmm, now that's a really interesting question. Do I? And I thought, yeah, I guess I do. I am following a process. He said, that's great. Would you be willing to give a program for our chapter about how you write your book so quickly? And I said, I would love to do that. He said, but wait, but wait, before you say yes, we have 2 of our chapter members who are working on their books.

Mm-hmm.

Would you be willing to coach them using your process and then give a report to the chapter? And I said, okay, you had me at give a talk, but I'm totally in. I'm totally excited. And so I started coaching these 2 women who are friends of mine, and almost immediately they said, have you ever thought about being a book coach? And I'm like, no. No, is there, is there a need? Is there such a thing? And they said, oh, absolutely, there is a need. There's so many people who want to write a book, but they don't know how to get started. They have an idea, they get stuck. You know, there's a million reasons why people do need book coaches. And they said, I think you'll be great. So I thought about it. Well, then we gave— I gave my program for the chapter. And once again, I've been a member of NSA for like more than 30 years. And so my friends came up to me and said, Kathi, have you ever thought about being a book coach if you ever leave this HR consulting? I'm like, okay, I have now. I'm on to this. So that was in the spring of 2013, and by January 2014, I had launched my new business as a book coach. Since then, I've helped more than 200 professionals, going on 230 right now, become published authors. So it's been amazing.

There's a lot to unpack there. First, I've heard you mention that when you first got into this book coaching world that your husband wasn't super supportive. Like, I'm curious about that because I'm wondering like what was going through your mind and how you actually kept going. Because I think a lot of people, a lot of our listeners will understand and they can relate to the fact that they don't necessarily have a supportive partner in whatever avenue they're trying to pursue. So I'm really curious as to what kept you going and how you— yeah, how you just decided to keep going even though you didn't necessarily have the support of your spouse at first.

Well, it's interesting because he just thought I was getting too narrowly niched, getting so, so— people who want to write a book, I mean, how many people is that? Will you ever, you know, make a paycheck? And I just thought, No, I'm really convinced that being that specific with my target is exactly right. And of course, it's, it's been true. But he was very skeptical at first. But then once the business started coming, he, he gets it now. Or sort of gets it.

For the most part.

For the most part.

I love that. Were you, were you initially like, when you started to launch this business, were you nervous and scared about it? Did you think it was going to be an instant success or what were, what was going through your head at the time when you started?

You know, I had started a business before when I was the human resources consultant. And so I knew a lot of what it takes to get started. You had, my husband accused me of having lunch or having coffee with everybody in the city of Louisville. I was in Louisville at the time, which is somewhat true. I mean, I really did a great job of just saying, I'm a book coach. I help people write books, nonfiction books to grow your business. So I went out there and just told everybody. And it was so narrow of a niche, it was fairly easy. I became like people whenever they heard someone say, a friend say, oh, you know, I should write a book, or I've been thinking about writing a book. They say, oh, call Kathy Fajock. She's the one to call. And so pretty quickly it really caught on. And then I also did some anthologies early on too. With my background in human resources, I thought it might make sense for people to write a chapter in a book and not necessarily a whole book. So that was a really wonderful way to introduce people to the idea of writing, the idea of being in a book and published. And sure enough, a lot of those individuals went on to write their solo book after the experience. So it was a great sort of pipeline experience for me in getting known more broadly. And then having people say, yes, I've got the bug. Now I want to write my own book.

Yeah, that's exactly how we met. I attended the first— my first NSA National Speakers Association event down in Orlando a few weeks ago. And I had mentioned to somebody, just while casually networking, that I work in the book space, the nonfiction book space. And she said, I have to introduce you to somebody. And so she brought me upstairs, brought me into that chapter leader's room where you were, and brought me right over and introduced you to me. So yeah, that's, that's how that happened.

That's the way it goes for something.

Yeah. Niches in the riches, right?

Absolutely. And just really being known for that one thing has been gold for my, for my business.

You mentioned that you're not you're like, you've written books, but you don't consider yourself a great writer. And I'm curious, like, back in— it was 1990 when your first book came out. The year prior to that, 1989, when you were first writing your first book, like, what was going through your mind? Why did you write your first book? Like, what was the reasoning for that?

It's a great question, and there's a fun story that goes with it. So I was a fairly new consultant, and I knew that Having a book would set me apart from all the other human resources consultants, and that was really my focus for writing a book. I wanted to be noticed. I wanted to get the added visibility, credibility. It's a differentiator. All of those things I knew, but it did not come easy. I recall sitting at my desk, and my husband would come home each day, and he'd say, "So did you get?" started on the book because I had a contract for my first book. And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish up this and, you know, do a few other little things, clear, clearing off the desk, and I'm gonna get right to it. And day after day passed and I was saying the same thing. And he was thinking, oh my gosh, we're gonna have to send back the advance check. And actually, I was kind of fearful of that too. But I was going through what a lot of new authors experience, and that is imposter syndrome. But I'd love to tell you the story of how it manifested itself. I was having— about the same time, I was having this recurring dream. And the dream was that I was in a business setting. And I was sitting around like talking with people at a boardroom table or maybe speaking for clients. And I would look down and I realized I had on no clothes, and I'm thinking, that is weird. And it just— I kept having the dream over and over and over again. Well, shortly thereafter, I was on a business flight, and the seat pocket in front of me had a Working Woman magazine, and I picked it up. The lead article was Dreams of Executive Women. So I thought, hmm, I wonder if my dream is in here. And I flipped it open. Oh my gosh, that is the number one dream of executive women, which I thought, like, why? What does it mean? Well, it said basically, you know, people are— women are promoted to these high-level positions and all of a sudden they feel exposed, like people are going to find out I don't really know what they think I know. And, you know, I'm really not suited for this role. But I thought, you know, that's not me because I'm not in a corporation. And So it doesn't apply to me. But then I thought, oh my gosh, I am writing a book. And what am I doing in writing a book? And these were the words that came to me. I am documenting for the world my level of incompetence. I am documenting for the world my level of incompetence on this topic. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's heavy. But once I had that realization that I was really fearful of like putting myself out there and saying, this is what I know, this is what I believe is true. And it wasn't even a personal book. It was about the aging workforce. It was completely, you know, not personal at all. But the fact is that I think writing, I don't know, is personal because you're showing what you believe. You're sharing your values, you're sharing your truth, you're sharing your knowledge. So it was an interesting experience.

What, so you've worked with almost, well, I guess about 230 authors to make the thoughts in their head become a published book. So what's the number one thing that you see authors struggling with as far as getting a book completed?

It's almost always, I thought it would be process. Honestly, I thought, you know, having a process and some steps and I thought that would take care of it. But honestly, still the biggest issue I face with my clients is the negative voice in the head. The voice that says, who do you think you are writing a book? Did anybody ever tell you you were a good writer? Did anybody ever ask you to write this book? You know, who wants to hear from you? I mean, that is the number one concern. Now, it doesn't always show up just like that. Sometimes it shows up as procrastination, perpetual procrastination, like just not getting around to writing, or they're 80% or more done with the book and they can't quite get it done. And when we dive into it, they say, I'm just, I'm really kind of afraid, you know, but we have to kind of peel away the layers to find that out. But that's still probably number one. And then accompanying with that is just sort of validation that they're on the right path. They know what they're doing. They're not going to make a fool of themselves. They're gonna say it in a way that is credible. And that's, I think, the number one reason why people hire a book coach is for that accountability, but also just to make sure I'm not going to let anybody embarrass themselves. I'm not going to let anybody put something out there without me at least saying, I'm going to say, you know, I don't think this is quite meeting your goals as you've established them. And I'm very honest with my authors because I want the best for them.

We definitely all need that encouragement as often as possible with all the projects that we do. And then you have something like writing a book, it's like you said, even more personal. So I can only imagine like how much more so you would need that. So do you have any general advice for people struggling with that negative voice and that inner monologue of I'm stupid, I'm not enough, whatever it may be that's preventing them? Like, what's your advice about that to overcome that?

Well, I have several pieces of advice. First of all, know that it's totally normal. I think 100% of authors have that experience. One of my great stories is I work a lot with Ali Pleiter. We're co-authoring a new book together this fall, but she is a full-time writer. She's authored more than 60 books. She's just amazing. She says, Every book, the negative voice pays a visit. And she's going along. I mean, she's a full-time writer. She has a very successful long-term career. But every book, and it's about the 80%, 85% mark, that's when the voice comes that says, do you really think you're a writer? This book is going to tank your career. So that's one thing, is just knowing that it is so common and it is so human. to experience that. Beyond that, I found that there are some really great techniques. I love the exercise, and we do it often in retreat, where we write a letter to the negative voice. And it's basically telling the voice to back off and be quiet, telling it where to go. But then there's some other— I'm just working with a new author now, and we're doing some interesting sort of shadow work. And, um, I did an experiment where I wrote a letter from the negative voice to me, which was an interesting experience, uh, to see what came up there. So there can be some really interesting things. Uh, I'm also saying for people of faith, you know, getting down on your knees and saying a prayer is always a good strategy. There are also things of just plowing through it. I also think that group coaching experience or some writers group can give validation to that fear and help you know that— I have a wonderful group coaching practice, and if I don't say it, somebody else says it. They say, oh, I don't know, it's not really good, or I'm going to read this, but it's— they'll say, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't go there. We are only talking in positive terms, and we're only giving each other positive encouragement. So, I think all of those things are good antidotes for the negative voice.

I love that. Well, first off, I think the first thing I'm going to do after this call is just give— write myself a letter from both the positive and the negative voice because I think that is a fascinating, fascinating practice. You mentioned—

It is.

retreats. And I think it'll probably be as good a time as any to bring up one that you're doing soon. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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Yes, I love my retreats. I've done probably half a dozen retreats now and they are awesome. It's a 3 full-day writing retreat and there's pre-work that I do with folks who sign up. There's post-work. So it's not just the 3-day retreat experience, but basically I have it scheduled so that during the day we come together in the morning, there's some instructions, some group things, and then you have 2 hours of writing. And then we pull back together for a little instruction, debrief, talking about what went on, and then writing. And then we wrap up the day. And then if people want to go back to their rooms and do more writing, then I don't stop them. But basically, it's 3 days of having really a lot of quality writing time combined with the— there's something about when the group comes together and you know that your peers are all writing too. There's something about the creative energy in room that is just really powerful. The other thing is that we give enough writing exercises and tips and ideas that get people going. And because Allie and I are both faculty, we'll be wandering around. If somebody wants to go over their outline or they want to review something with us, we can dive deep with them one-on-one in the moment. And because the retreats are fairly small and you get a lot of personalized service. So the dates are October 12th through 14th. It's right outside of Louisville, Kentucky, at this beautiful, beautiful retreat center, Volterra. And I just, I love it. And fall, October is like the perfect time to be in Kentucky.

So there probably are quite a few people that are listening to this podcast today thinking, hey, Kathy, I'd like to start a book someday, but I'm not sure if I'm ready yet. I'm not sure if this is a good fit for me yet. You know, they're procrastinating, they're pushing it down, they're kicking the can down the road. So when is the best time to start the book? When is the best time to invest in a service like this?

Well, some of my clients come to me and they say, well, I just— this book won't leave me alone, so I have to do something about it. Um, so obviously that's a good time. But even if you're really thinking about it, what I, I love to invite folks to schedule a strategy call. It's complimentary, 30-minute strategy call, and we'll talk about the book, and I'll give you some tips and ideas for getting started. Because the more you can define some of the strategic elements of your book, decide how you want to use it, who it's for, how it's going to play a role in your business or your ministry or your platform, to have some ideas about those things will help you go forward. So I always invite folks to give me a call. Let's talk. It may be too early. You may—

Yeah.

But at least we can have the conversation and then give you some really clear ideas for moving forward.

I love that. I actually know a guy, he's on this call with us, who's been interested in writing a book for a long time but isn't, you know, he doesn't know if he wants to start. So maybe we could just have Luke be on the accountability pedestal for a minute.

Oh, I love it. So what's holding you back, Luke? I've had an outline for a while.

I think the biggest thing for me is always, it always comes back to that. You talked about that imposter syndrome. It always comes back to that for me because I'm like, who am I? What have I actually done? You know, I'm 29 years old. I'm like, am I experienced enough to even write a book? Like, what do I know that others don't know? All those thoughts and those things, that is what holds me back probably the most. And then also just thinking that it needs to be, I'm a bit of a perfectionist. So just thinking that, oh, the first time I write something, it needs to be absolutely mind-blowingly perfect. And I realize, like, that's not the actual case, but that's what goes on in my head anyway.

Of course it does. Of course it does. And that's one of the big things I, I help people learn how to do is to not edit as you write. Because it's like if we're writing a book, we want it to be really, really good. So we overthink everything we write, and Absolutely gets in the way of us writing our best. So sometimes it's just forgetting, like, I just, just getting through, throwing up on the page is, it's very ugly, but it's, it's very true. Just getting it out and getting started because inertia will get you every time. It is not your friend. So the fact is doing something to help it move forward. And maybe that's just picking up the phone and giving me a call. I'd love to have a conversation and talk with you about your idea. And And that's true for all the folks listening.

Yeah. Well, I greatly appreciate that and I'll probably take you up on that offer because it's been probably at least a good 6 months that I've been saying, okay, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna do this thing. And I have made zero progress outside of having an outline and then going back to the outline a few times and typing up some stuff.

Yes, yes, yes. Because here's the thing, a book will always be very important to you, to your career, to your trajectory going forward, but it will never be urgent. Unless you create some urgency around it. And that's why engaging with a coach or signing up for a retreat or whatever, it, it creates that urgency that is really important, important for getting it done.

Well, uh, you're coming to Kentucky on October 12th through 14th. Maybe that's where I need to be with you in Louisville. I would love that.

I'm thinking that would be great. All right.

Love it.

Yeah. I feel like I've talked a lot.

Sorry. I just went through the process of writing a book and it is very difficult. That can't be understated, just like you had mentioned before, Kathy. And I struggled with a lot of what Luke struggled with, and I wish I had resources to kind of jumpstart and get me through it a little bit faster. So it sounds like you provide some of those. I wanted to ask before we wrap a little bit more about your book that will be coming out this fall. So tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah, I am super excited. I love collaboration. So Ali and I have been working together and we do our group coaching calls together. And she also works with me on my retreats. And we have had such a great synergy. And so I came up with the idea. I said, wouldn't it be fun to write a book called— well, it later came to be called The Writer Crisis Hotline. And basically the premise is we have all these authors which represent all of our clients who come to us and say, I, you know, I'm stuck, or the negative voice won't leave me alone, or I'm staring at a blank page and how do I get started? So we have answers to like 40-some-odd questions that our authors typically ask us, and we've given them some practical ideas for getting it across the finish line. So I'm super excited about the book. It will be launched probably in conjunction with the writer's retreat in October.

I love that. Well, super excited to read that one. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

Yes.

You know, we talked, you were talking about, you're, I mean, obviously you're a boss, you're a business owner, you're an author and you're all these amazing things, but you also like to have a little bit of fun outside of your work life. And I saw that you were in a one-woman show, Dream It and Achieve It, I believe it was called.

Yes.

Yes. So can you tell me like the role that having fun outside of your work life has played in your life?

Absolutely. Well, I love to sing. In fact, my undergraduate degree is in vocal music. But I've since lost my voice in the past, maybe like 2 years or so. My voice has gone away. So I still enjoy music though, very, very much. And I love opera. I love Broadway. I love the symphony. We have a really good symphony orchestra down here in Punta Gorda. And so I love music and the arts. But I also love reading. I love reading. When I go on vacation for several weeks, usually I'll plow through, you know, dozens of books. And I love that. Also, we're We're building a new home and we're closing this week, hopefully. So that will be fun to be, you know, in the midst of creating my new Florida residence. So that'll be fun. So yeah, lots, lots of other interests. I've just learned how to play mahjong. So who knows what's next? Oh, I've started painting too. Wow.

I love that. I think it just shows, you know, it paints a good picture because Because oftentimes, you know, we get caught up in these single identities like, oh, I'm an author and that's all I can do and that's all I can be. And we forget that we can have other interests outside of that one thing that we're doing. So I think it's really cool just to paint this picture of you as this very full person that's full of life. And it's really inspiring for somebody like me who's listening to your story. So, Nick, before we start wrapping things up, did you have any other questions? else that you wanted to ask?

No, actually, yes, let's ask one more. Out of the 230 clients you've worked with, do most of them seem to fall in the same subgenre of nonfiction? Are they leadership books? Are they Christian leadership books? Like any— okay, nothing.

Gosh, really, it's such a wide variety. I have several in the DEI space, the diversity, equity, inclusion, a foundation of faith as part of the book. I have some podcast guests or podcast producers who have put together almost instead of a blog to book, podcast to book, sort of featuring their best stories and guests, authors coming out with wellness, innovation, storytelling. I mean, all over the map. So it's— that's what's really super fun about my job is I get to really dive deep into all these different topics and learn so much about the expertise of my clients.

Yeah, I love that. Well, let me ask one follow-up question then. On the back end of that, do you see that a certain genre of book that you work on performs better or books written by a certain type of person sell more? Anything like that?

No, I'm— most of my clients are writing a book to grow their business. So they are looking to— and most of them are speakers, so they're wanting to be out there and speaking on the book so that The books have consistently opened doors to speaking engagements. They have brought more clients. They have expanded their credibility and visibility so that they can raise their fees. So it's not always book sales that's the big measurement factor that we're looking at. It can be just all of these other things that work together to create Yeah, that makes total sense.

Thank you.

All right. Well, man, there's a lot of other things I wanted to get into, but since we're on this, we're trying to keep our show a little bit shorter than the usual, making it about 30 minutes. So I'll put those other questions on the back burner. And I always like to wrap up the podcast with this one question, which is, after you pass away, all the information that you put out disappears and you could only leave the world with one single piece of advice, what would it be?

Let your light shine. Let your light shine. And I think that's one of the things, I think that's the thing I do the most with my authors is I encourage them to shine more brightly, to be bold about sharing what they know. And that's the one That's the one thought I would leave behind. Let your light shine.

I love that. And do you think— sorry, one follow-up with that. What is the, what is the best way for somebody to let their light shine?

Just being really true to who you are, being so authentic, but also not letting fear get in the way. Think about playing bigger. And that's the other thing I guess I help my authors do, or I try to, is help them think bigger about their opportunity to impact the world. Because I believe that authors can and do make the world a better place one word at a time. I believe that. I live that. And I think it's really true.

Yeah.

Well, that definitely aligns with us here at Book Thinkers. We 100% agree with that line of thinking. We do believe the right book at the right time can change somebody's life. And without the authors putting in the work, they wouldn't have that. So thank you so much for your time. For our listeners who want to learn more about you and what you do, where can they go and what can they do?

They can send me an email at kathy@kathyfioc.com, or they can go to my website, which Perfect.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. We enjoyed this chat so much.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, Go read something.