137. Kris Goodrich | Don't be an Entrepreneur

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Chris Goodrich, author of Don't Be an Entrepreneur Unless You Play a Different Way. Chris started his entrepreneurial journey in high school where he built a fire starter kit business that was doing $30,000 a year in recurring revenue. If that isn't impressive enough, he has also struggled with severe dyslexia, but hasn't let that stop him from building multiple successful businesses and writing a book. Chris has an awesome perspective of the world and is a serial entrepreneur, husband, father, and is constantly looking for ways to solve problems for himself and others. He has a passion for guiding people through the hardships and challenges that come with being an entrepreneur. In this episode, you'll learn about Chris and his journey of building businesses, why entrepreneurship is a team sport, and how you can start taking action on your dreams today. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Chris Goodrich. Chris, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. We have a lot of cool things to talk about. I'd love to kick this episode off with going back to your time as a dyslexic high schooler and talk about how you began a business earning roughly $30,000 a year in recurring revenue by the time you left for college. I have 2 questions about that. Why did you feel the need to start a business at such a young age? And 2, why did you feel the need to still attend college after building something so successful at such a young age?

That's a very loaded question. You know, entrepreneurship, it's been in me my entire life. Even before that business, there were lots of other things I did that, you know, when you're young, yeah, money is kind of the factor that gets you going, especially with dyslexia. I always see the puzzles. I always see problems around me, something to solve. And various interests along the way. So I would try to piece those together, have an interest in something, what can I solve in that area, what are people gonna be interested in to buy basically. So that first, I'll say really successful business was really, it was making primitive fire starting kits. Like you, who, what, what is that, right? Why would you even get into that? And if that was really came about through Boy Scouts. Fire starting, always entertaining. And then really delving back to, you know, how people started fires back in the day. And that's where the primitive fire starting kits came about. And yeah, I got into manufacturing them. Honestly, I learned more running that business at like, what, 16 to, you know, 16 years old. It really got going. And yeah, the life lessons from just being out there doing it, trying to find people to talk to about business at that age to learn as quickly as possible, it's pretty exciting. So that's how I got going with that. As far as college goes, you know, what really drove me to college actually was the whole Mars expedition and going to Mars, right? So NASA was throwing out a bunch of research projects. Stevens Institute of Technology, got some of the grants to run some of the projects. So that was really my— the front to going to college. So that was environmental engineering, actually. So, you know, dealing with water, water processing, again, one big puzzle. How do you do that, you know, on a spaceship for that many months of a trip? So—

Have you been working your way through Walter Isaacson's new biography of Elon?

No, no, I haven't. I will be throwing that one down for sure.

Yeah, I was asking because, uh, of the 42 conversation that we were having before, the meaning of life, and, you know, his interest in, in Mars and everything like that. Um, I'm curious, so with the, with the fire starter kits that you were building, manufacturing, selling, uh, was there an inspiration there? Was there a mentor who sort of helped you get into this world of entrepreneurship? I also, I started a business before I was 20 and I definitely had some mentors that helped me out along that way. So I'm curious, like, how did that come about? Because there are a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs in our audience.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I lucked out first and foremost. My parents were always extremely supportive. They were entrepreneurial as well. My dad had various projects. His main thing was rental real estate, but they were always supportive and you know really went out of their way to take the time to to help me out with questions I had along the way. So that that's first and foremost. Secondly, I mean, I honestly I went out of my way to reach out to everyone. That's always been. for me, a life lesson for everyone else. I try to always instill that. I try to instill that in my children as well. You know, hey, you know, you read a book you like, like, reach out to the author, please tell them something that inspired you, try to make a connection. You know, even if you're not looking for something, just, just building that bond, building that network, and really developing the ability to do that, to connect, to reach out. So mentors along the way, there were certainly people in the education world. In high school, you know, one teacher in particular had a business background, so I was able to really tap his brain on stuff, which was great. And then in Boy Scouts as well, you have a lot of scout leaders, different walks of life that I was able to connect with. And, you know, again, each person you're able to connect with and get something different out of, right? So even if it's not entrepreneurial, that's okay. There's still gonna be something in their walk of life that you can, you know, just grab that little nugget, that little piece, and, you know, really make it your own and really help it drive you forward to the next, really to the next level, right? It's that whole, that whole game metaphor, right? You know, what takes you to the next level, basically.

Yeah, mentorship is so important. It's definitely a topic I wanna continue to dive into a little bit, but first I wanna back up just a little bit and ask about the title of the book, which is Don't Be an Entrepreneur. And it definitely stood out to me when I first read that because I'm like, hold on, is this guy an entrepreneur? Is he saying not be an entrepreneur? Like, what is— what's the point of that? You're an entrepreneur yourself. Are you telling everyone not to be an entrepreneur? Like, I'd love to know the backstory to that.

Yeah. I mean, you really gotta go with the second line on the title there, which is, you know, unless you play a different way. And it came about from, you know, sitting down having coffee with one of my close friends, David Steele, who actually wrote the foreword for the book. And, you know, we were basically talking through the solopreneur myth and how people really get into entrepreneurship, starting a business, you know, it looks awesome, I'm gonna be making so much money and they end up kind of getting stuck by entrepreneurship and it's no longer fun, the day-to-day, it's the grind and you're not progressing, you're not trying to evolve as an entrepreneur, you're not trying to, you know, learn and really take it to the next level and people do, they get stuck. The myth that's out there and it's a glorified myth that, you know, that single person can achieve, you know, high heights and awesomeness. And that rarely happens, very rare that it happens. You know, some of the big figureheads that you think made it all on their own, they had huge mentors on the sideline to, you know, again, help them on the way. you know, each next level in their business when it grew, like there were brand new problems that were there that they had never faced, but their mentors had, right? They had been through that journey before and were able to provide either guidance, experiences that, you know, basically speeds up someone's learning rather than going through all these trials and tribulations. Hey, let's fast forward Learn as quick as possible, skip some of the downsides basically. So that's—

So you mentioned some of the people in your life that acted as mentors and I understand severely dyslexic, right? So were you reading books about entrepreneurship, consuming podcasts, courses, audiobooks, any of that kind of stuff as well? Or was it just kind of the people around you that encouraged you to take This type of action?

Yeah, I mean, books, that's a very interesting thing. So if, if it's a fiction book, for instance, I cannot get through it whatsoever. My reading is so slow. But if I pick up a nonfiction book, especially with business or science, I, I mean, I can chew through that book so quickly. It's really, it's really weird and really funny. But when I'm trying to pull out, you know, information, facts, you know, that's— yeah, that's how it gets into my brain. The fiction, the stories, that I have to go do on the movie screen, be able to really enjoy that. But yeah, books were a huge thing. And then, like I said, just getting out there, meeting, talking with other people, different walks of life, you know, that's Instrumental.

I think it's so cool because you, even in your book, you talk about meeting Mike Michalowicz and he's like a, he'd be a huge deal to meet for, I mean, for me, for anybody in this entrepreneur world. So I'm curious as to how you even went about like getting him to meet with you for coffee.

Yeah, it, I mean, again, it goes to just reaching out. First off, he had just come out with his first book, right? The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur and picked that book up right away, read that one as normal. And, you know, I reached out to him and he was local and I forget if he suggested it or I suggested, hey, let's meet up, have coffee. And, you know, he was like, even though it was a short period of time that, you know, we met, you know, I'll define him as a strong mentor for me because the amount of information And guidance I got from him was enormous, right? I was, I was kind of stuck again in this, this stage, and to get to the next level, I, I needed something else. I didn't know what it was, and Mike stepped in, and, you know, a half hour, and it was just like, oh my God, that's amazing. Yes, I need to go do this.

So I'd love to. Um, I know in your book you have a bunch of tips and tricks and everything for getting mentorship, but do you mind going through maybe one or two of those concepts from your book for our audience today? Like just how they can begin to find those mentors and get them in their life?

Yeah, I would say first and foremost, don't have any preconceptions of what a mentor is because Again, someone that's totally outside of what you thought can offer something that's different than everyone else is saying, right? Because they're in a different direction and you can really pull it. And then secondly is don't fear the no, right? Reach out. If they say no, hey, I get it. Everyone's busy. Not a problem. But the more often you ask, the likelihood of getting that yes is infinitely higher, right? You ask one, you get no, okay, you're done, right? But if you keep— just keep going, just keep reaching out. Don't worry about the, the nos, and don't take it personal. Again, people have their own lives. People are busy. People have struggles going on in the business world, in the personal world, whatever it is. But you just gotta keep reaching out is the biggest piece to the puzzle for that.

Yeah, that's a great piece of advice for entrepreneurship in general to develop tolerance for rejection and understand that it is part of the process and, you know, don't take the nos too seriously. So transitioning to something in the front of the book, you have this Well, I'd like to hear how you describe it, but you have a few pages where you imagine that you're playing a classic video game and then you actually have these images almost in comic book style in the book. You have knights and dragons and then it kind of transitions to more of a macro level where you have the player of the video game playing with some other people in a coffee shop and learning a little bit more lessons about life and business. And so I'll just kind of share some of these images with anybody that's watching the video. If you're just listening to the audio only, I encourage you to check out the book because it's priced very fairly. You get a full color version. It's a lot of fun to read. Why did you decide to do this and what was the inspiration for that? Because I've never seen it in a book like this.

No, no, it definitely hasn't. I would say the first inspiration of that would be, you know, my kids have gotten into these graphic novels, right? If there's a book people are reading, they'll check out, is there a graphic novel? version of it to really— I don't know, it adds a level of experience further than just words alone. Secondly, for me, with the dyslexia as well, again, you know, it's just, it's different. It catches your attention more, it draws you in. And the idea of this story, this game, this, this person that's playing the game and struggling I think my generation, people around my generation, can certainly flash back to sitting down playing those classic video games. And some of them, like, there was no save button, first off, on some of them. So you're struggling along and you hit this point, you can't save, you're stuck. And you know what happens? Eventually you have to turn the game off, you start over again. But you just keep getting to that same point. So I think conceptually people have felt that, and this is a way of taking that feeling and applying it to the entrepreneurial world.

What's so great about that too is that it's easier to remember. Like, when I read through that, it was like so easy to go upstairs and explain to my wife what book I was reading. I didn't have to like try to conceptualize it because it was already done for me. And I really appreciated that and it really stood out because there just aren't many books like that. So it was like leveled that up. I appreciated that very much. I mean, I love reading and I'm a big reader obviously, but working for a company that reads for a living, right? But I just, I really appreciated it and I think that's a cool concept that a lot of authors should try to integrate into their books if they can because it just makes it easier to remember. And you talked about that experience piece, and I love that. I want to go to another quote from your book that stood out to me, and it's this. It says, while the allure of diving straight into action is strong, real game changers know the value of building a strong foundation first. So I want to ask, what does that mean and why is it important for long-term success?

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Yeah, I think building a foundation, that's something I've learned. I don't think I really dove into myself enough when I was younger. And maybe that's just a function of, hey, adolescence, you know, is what it is. But even in my 20s, like, I didn't really grasp who I was to be able to exploit— that's not the right word— but to be able to, to take my talents and what makes me strong and, and really drive forward with that rather than, you know, worrying about all the fears and weaknesses. And, you know, again, with dyslexia, right, there were a lot of weaknesses, okay? And not focusing myself and understanding myself you know, those negatives, right? They just sit there and churn away and you keep thinking about them. But on the other side is like this superpower, these, you know, for all the negatives, all these positives were there. So to really dive into yourself first and foremost, yourself as the foundation to go out then and build these relationships is key. You know, one of the books, Simon Sinek with Find your why is a great way to go ahead, look inside yourself, really find what, what drives you. And one thing I would add to that is don't worry about it being perfect, right? Your why, how you define yourself, your goals, because they're going to change over time, plain and simple. You're going to be at a different point in life. You're going to have different responsibilities, things going on, and it can change. It definitely evolved for me. And, you know, it started out, hey, first and foremost, money. I think most people do when they're younger, right? You want to do that. And then the first introspective of learning myself and really coming to grips is what I really love about entrepreneurship is like playing these games, these puzzles. I love that. And for entrepreneurship, I don't care what industry it is, right? I'm going to find puzzles in it and I could just play and solve those puzzles all day, right? That's kind of my superpower. It's what I love to do and I just apply it to entrepreneurship. That's just what I do. And the next stage and evolution of my why then is You can only get so far playing these games, these puzzles. But when you add in other people and create this team, first, the types of puzzles you can play are so much bigger, so much grander. It just opens up all these new possibilities working in a larger team, other entrepreneurs around you connecting. And You know, helping other people that, you know, hey, they're just starting out or maybe they're not, you know, they're thinking about entrepreneurship and being able to help guide them and learn about yourself at the same time. Ah, it's powerful. It's great. So that's the level I'm on right now for my why.

Well, since you brought up Simon Sinek, you know, one of my favorite questions to ask is what book other than yours What book have you gifted the most over the last, let's say, 5 years? Does anything come to mind?

The book I've gifted the most, I would say, well, first and foremost, I gift to all the students I mentor. Rich Dad Poor Dad is like the old school throw. I remember getting that. And, you know, I got everything of his, of course. You know, that was a long time ago. There wasn't, you know, a lot out there that really spoke to me as powerful. So that's first and foremost. And then Never Eat Alone is another one that I, especially to younger people, I gift out, which again, it deals with that building the bonds, building the connections, just getting out there. Don't waste a moment to do it. And then for more established business people, I give out The Machine, which, you know, I love that book. I, we, in my businesses, we really took that book and applied it not just to the sales, but we applied that to like every division of the company to streamline it and Buck the industry trends is what I'd like to say with that. Like, it's just if you apply that differently, you know, don't be like everyone else in your industry. Don't do it. Don't fall into that trap. Be different. Something that's gonna let you excel and differentiate yourself from the rest of the people in the industry, whatever industry you're in. You're better off going that route. So that's Those are my top 3 gifted books.

Well, that's amazing. Rich Dad Poor Dad is definitely one that we've all read. That was Nick's like first book that he read. So we can surely relate to that. So I'm curious, you know, speaking about doing things differently, in 2008, you and your wife decided to purchase a service business. And I'm so curious as to why during like one of the worst economic times in America up to that point, Like, why did you decide to embark on that journey then?

Yeah, great, great question. Um, it was actually a family business that my in-laws started back in the '80s even, and it was a specialized business doing deer damage control, very niche. And, you know, they grew it up, they had a couple trucks out on the road, and my father-in-law at that time was working on, on another business. And I was like, listen, hey, you know, this is the service business is going over here. You're not really focused on it. You know, let us buy it from you and focus on it and really take it to the next level. And that's what we did. You know, the timing of it economically, I mean, we bought it at the beginning of '08. And I remember like the, there was that crash or huge dip in the fall and Oh my God, the phone calls like were coming in like, oh, we need to cut back on expenses. Okay. Luckily, we had grown a lot in the spring with a lot of new initiatives we were doing to really drive the business to the next level. So we grew a lot that year, but then we gave back quite a bit, unfortunately, of that growth. We didn't step back, you know, negatively from where we started, which is great. But yeah, it wasn't as exciting by the end of the year. Certainly.

I find that so cool, and it's such an exciting story, and it just shows that you look at things a little bit differently, and it just shows that you're not scared to do the hard thing during a crazy time where most people are like, ah, we're all— we're not buying anything or selling anything, you know? You know, I—

it's interesting, you look at downturns, and that's really when the great businesses get their foothold. You have everyone else that, you know, during the good times, you know, everyone's out there It's a crowded marketplace, whatever you're in when times are good. You know, times get rough, a lot of those people just go away. So you're able to really get in there and get a foothold and really, you know, try to own the market. And it's, yeah, a lot of the competition just ends up going away during those times. So as long as you've built a strong foundation in the company and you've differentiated yourself enough, You know, it's actually a good time to get to that next level that when times start to go good again is just, you know, it's going to be magic.

It's that good old Warren Buffett quote, be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful, right? So I was just looking at your LinkedIn a minute ago and you're currently involved with how many businesses?

It's quite a few.

It's quite a few.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, one of the things, again, seeing puzzles everywhere, you know, sometimes I get distracted and start up a new project. You know, one thing I would say that I learned from that experience, and I try to tell other entrepreneurs that Listen, you really should focus. You shouldn't get as distracted as I did. I mean, luckily I was able to get, you know, other people involved, other team— teams in those businesses to get things to run smoothly so that, you know, I wasn't pulled in every direction myself. You know, go in, set up a vision, make sure that the company is driving towards that. But Yeah, I say it to all the entrepreneurs now, like, just focus on that one thing and just drive forward on it. You know, look for all the nuggets in other industries and just do something different in your industry pulling from those things.

I'm really curious about your wife and your dynamic, your relationship dynamic, because I know tons of people that are like, oh man, I would never work with my wife. I don't want to work with my wife in that capacity. So I'm curious how you two work together and how that has hurt or maybe helped your relationship in your life.

Yeah, that's interesting. So it's been a long relationship, which is great. We actually met each other in high school, so a long time ago at this point. You know, it's funny, someone had said that they were trying to paint a picture of the two of us. And they painted me as like this balloon, like flying up with all these ideas, everything. And, you know, my wife really being like the tether holding me to the ground here so I don't get too crazy, which is definitely, definitely what it is. But at this point, working with her is an absolute joy. She brings so many other perspectives to what we're doing, especially when it comes with the branding. You know, we're working with a lot of different brands right now, helping to develop and getting her insight into that and her knowledge and experiences is huge. Is huge.

That's amazing. Did you guys, like, growing up together, did you think that starting a business together is something that you wanted to do? Was that something that you guys talked a lot about?

Well, again, this, the main service business we bought in 2008 was my in-law's business. So she grew up like living the business, living in an entrepreneurial family, right? And that's where I grew up as well. So it was from that standpoint, there was a lot of things that, you know, that we could relate to each other and I would, I would say as well, it helped out that when there were periods of times when things were really tough, or, you know, there was a lot of work to get done for one reason or another, like, it was kind of understood that that's what needed to get done. So there wasn't, you know, a weird dynamic that someone didn't understand really what it meant to be an entrepreneur and, and that be the driving force in the family. So I'm sure other people can struggle with that. I know some people I mentor where, you know, their spouse, you know, really doesn't understand. You know, they have a 9-to-5 job and, you know, you go through so much more as an entrepreneur than a 9-to-5 that you can just you know, grab your hat and leave at the end of the day and not have to worry about it. Whereas the entrepreneur, like, you're, you're feeling it 24/7. It's there, uh, with you. The good, the bad, the ugly, like, all of it, all of it.

So as we get ready to wrap up today's show, if somebody's listened thus far and they're still on the fence, like, I don't know if I should read Don't Be an Entrepreneur Unless You Play a Different Way, What would you say to that person? Who is, as you define it, your target reader and why should they read this book?

So I think there's 2 targets. First and foremost, someone that's looking to get into entrepreneurship, they thought about it, you know, I wanna be my own boss. You know, I see how easy it is to succeed out there. I want to instill in them first and foremost from the beginning, so that they don't get off track. And the second person is the person that has gotten off track, the person that they've started the business and it's become something that it really, it starts to control your life, right? You feel like you're stuck in this business, you feel like you're all alone and, you know, there's a different way, right? Different way to play the game. And that is, I mean, if I got through to both of those groups of people, you know, that's a huge win, huge win to me.

Yeah, I love it. And like I mentioned before, the book is available. You didn't price it at $1,000, which you probably could have because there's thousands of dollars worth of wisdom in there. It's priced at a very fair price point. And so, go out there, buy a copy of the book, everybody. There are so many aspiring entrepreneurs or people who are currently off track and need to kind of get back on track in our audience. So I think this will be— I think this conversation will resonate with a lot of them. And I'll kick it back over to Luke, who always wraps up with our famous last question.

Yes, I have 2 questions though, because I want to selfishly ask just one more. Your daughter Eva, she started her own little venture, Sun Cards, and I think that is so cool that you're instilling this entrepreneurial spirit into your children as well. As a father of 3 kids, I'm curious as to like how you go about those conversations and how like you encouraged her to, to start that thing.

Yeah, that, that's great. So I'm the type of guy where, you know, she wanted to do a lemonade stand and I was like, okay, great, let's go into what that means. And meanwhile, she's, I don't know what age, like 6 or something like that. And like we're doing cost of goods sold. You know, listen, I'll give you a loan. You can go and buy the ingredients. And then her sister wanted to help out. I was like, okay, well, you need to pay her a wage for her to help out. So, you know, I kind of, I went a little overboard, I'm sure, because, you know, this stuff is ingrained in me. I love this stuff. So right from the beginning, you know, I always instill those ideas. And that business that she wanted to start, it started out as a school project. It got set aside, right? And God, it was beginning of the pandemic or I forget exactly when it was, but she came to me and she was like, hey, I wanna make this a business. What, you know, how do I go about doing this? And, you know, we sat down and did a list, business plan with her and, you know, tried to help her along the way to do it. And it was great. It was an exciting ride to, to go through that business with her and essentially help mentor her along the way with that. So, and even, even today, like, she goes into like toy stores. Now, this is a kid that has anxiety, okay? And she'll just cold walk in to a toy store and like convince them to buy and sell her Sun cards. Like, it's, it's amazing. It's, it's really— I get such a thrill off of it. It's just incredible to, uh, you know, see your kids succeed in something, especially that you enjoy, right? That you have the knowledge base in. It's, it's great. It's great.

That's amazing. It's definitely something that I'm trying to instill in my kids as well. So I love that. My son, you know, he's, he's kind of this, this artist and he's always drawing his pictures and he's like, how much do you think you can sell this one for, Dad? I'm like, you know, I don't know about if that's going to exactly how we can, how we can make this work. But I'm always working on ideas with him, which is cool.

Yeah, I think the one thing I always say to my kids is first and foremost, find a passion, whatever it is. I don't care. Find something you love. It's going to enable you to go every day and do something, that same thing, and not hate your life, right? You're gonna love it. Once you have that, like, do you— you can make a business out of anything. I'm sorry, anybody that says no to that, like, whatever your passion is, if you really focus on it, you can do that. So that's paramount that I tell my kids constantly, probably too much again. But—

Oh, I love that. Um, all right, so this is the final question. Which is you pass away and everything that you've put out, your courses, books, all your mentorship, it all disappears, but you're allowed to leave the world with one single piece of advice. What would it be?

Oh geez. One piece of advice. What would it be? I would say at this point in my life, what I would say is just reach out to other people. Be as vulnerable as you can at that time, because the more vulnerable you're gonna be allows you to have deeper connections, and it's gonna allow the other person to be more vulnerable at the same time. So you're, you're gonna get so much more support from each other, I think, is— it's a critical thing. If you have that, everything else becomes so much easier.

Yeah, I love that. Entrepreneurship is a team sport, as you say. That's so cool. Well, thank you so much, Chris, for coming on the podcast today. For our listeners who want to learn a little bit more about you, where can they go and what can they do?

Yeah, definitely. So you can go to chrisgoodrich.com, K-R-I-S goodrich.com. That's my direct page. You know, certainly I'm on all the social media channels. The book itself does have a website, dontbeanentrepreneur.com. And, you know, for those people that have purchased the book, if you actually go to the last page there, you know, the There is a Konami Code Easter egg that tells you how to— I don't know if any, you know, I haven't checked the, the number of people that have done it yet, but it'll be entertaining to see how many people find the Easter egg, certainly. So hopefully if people find it, they can ping you guys and spread the word on it. It's pretty fun.

I love that you have fun with it. It's great. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Chris. We appreciate your time, your knowledge. Thanks for sharing with us. Yeah. Everyone listening, go check out his book, Don't Be an Entrepreneur. It is a really cool one.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.

Bye.