138. Ashley Mansour | The Writer's Success Code

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Ashley Mansoor, author of The Writing Success Code, along with Blood, Ink, and Fire, among others. Ashley has over a decade of experience in entertainment and digital media, working as a writer, executive, and award-winning film producer. She's also a book strategist, author coach, and the author of 2 number one Amazon bestsellers, and is the founder and CEO of LA Writing Coach. We had a great time learning about the process of writing, why it's so hard for some people, and more about how Ashley became such a success. In this episode, you'll learn about how to go from idea to published book in 90 days. I was blown away by that. Why it's important to have clarity with your book, why a book is an essential part of business growth, the difference between craft and strategy, why you don't need to have a skill to be a writer, and much more. If you're wanting to grow your business or write a book, this episode is for you. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Ashley Mansour. Ashley, welcome to the podcast. We're so excited to have you on today. I'd love for us to kick off this episode with you sharing a little bit about a period of time somewhere between 2007 and 2011 where you spent 3 years of your time writing a book that would end up getting rejected. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey on writing the first book and then tell us a little bit about why you kept going even though you were getting rejected?

Oh, great question to start with and a painful memory for me, but it's good to dive into it for sure. So yeah, I mean, long story short, I basically came out of grad school and felt like, you know, there's so much I want to say. I want to be this great author. And I started applying myself to the writing process. And it took me 3 years to eventually crank out what was a 500-page draft. It was massive. And I had no clue, right? I just thought, this is great. I've written it. It'll be published. It's a no-brainer, right? This is how it happens. I just had no idea, right? And so I eventually started submitting it, and I had some folks I sent it to, and, you know, waiting with bated breath as rejections started to come in. My dreams were very quickly dashed, and I realized this isn't— this isn't going to be viable, right? So from there, I still remember, like, just sitting on the floor of my apartment and looking at this draft and realizing I've got to start completely over. again. Like, even if I wanted to, where do I start? How do I begin this whole process? And yeah, I basically shredded the entire thing, put it in my trash can, grabbed a Ben& Jerry's from the freezer, and sat there going, okay, that was 3 years down the drain. Now what?

You kind of highlighted a few things that I think first-time authors do wrong, but could you elaborate? So in hindsight, what are the things that you did wrong throughout that experience? And what are some of the things that you see with the people that you work with?

Oh my gosh, it's such a great question. I think there's, there's 3 big things that I did wrong and that I see first-time authors doing wrong. It's like, the first thing is you start out writing without a plan. You don't have clarity. And I'm all for creativity, inspiration, but oftentimes, 9 times out of 10, it's not enough to get you from A to B. Right from start to finish, you actually have to have a plan. You have to know where you're headed, and you have to have some kind of a plot, whether that's fiction or nonfiction. You got to know the beginning, middle, and end of your book. I didn't have that. So that was big mistake number 1. I think big mistake number 2 is not really realizing that writing a book didn't have to take years. So thinking that this is a multi-year journey, like I'm gonna put in the years and it's gonna equate to a good product that will get published. So that mindset is so damaging for first-time authors, because it's all about thinking, okay, if I just perfect my craft, if I work and hone my skills, that that's gonna be enough to get me where I wanna go. And what you're neglecting in that whole process is you're neglecting any kind of strategic thinking. So you're just focusing on how good are you as a writer, you know, are my sentences beautiful, is the prose landing, and you can have all that stuff, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get published. So that piece of it for me was a huge learning curve, huge wake-up call. And I think the, the third mistake I did, the third mistake I made, and that I see folks making is I didn't get help. I just suffered alone for 3 years working on this thing, and I didn't reach out for guidance.

I also want to highlight that you did go on to successfully publish a book, Blood, Ink& Fire, which was a runaway bestseller and everything, which is really cool. And then you even went on to do a TV show. So those 3 years of pain, obviously, like you benefited from, and then eventually now others are benefiting from it as well. So how did you, like, what was your mindset to start the process over again? Like, why did you want to put yourself through the writing process all over again? Like, what inspired you to do that?

Yeah, I think it was just the bug, right? I still had the bug. I'd caught the bug, and I couldn't shake this idea that I was supposed to write and publish books, tell stories. And I didn't really understand how that was going to happen if I couldn't get one out of me. And so I really had quite a bit of education in working in a startup company. And we did, you know, books for kids, stories for children. And in that process, it's like, actually, people think, you know, writing for kids is really easy. But in fact, writing for kids is one of the most challenging audiences to write for because there's so many restrictions. There's so many things that have to land. You've got to get story right from the start. And so really, that's where I cut my teeth is in that process and really learned, okay, there's a specific way that you do this. And there's a strategy, there's a method to the madness. And if you can find those elements that work, Reapply it. That's what encouraged me to start again.

When I think about the origin story for Book Thinkers, our business, it really started because I was posting on social media and I was developing an audience, and then authors started to reach out and say, hey, how much does a book review cost? Like, your audience is my target reader. And so I'd start to work with these people. I'd get paid to review books. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. And each and every time I'd end one of those engagements, I'd ask our clients, is there anything else that I could help with related to book PR, book marketing, anything like that. Tried a lot of things. Most of them failed. Some of them worked. Now we have a team of 10. We support hundreds of authors a year. What is your origin story with Elliot Writing Coach? How did you go from, I totally failed, put 3 years into this and I ended up with Ben and Jerry's and I was all down, to having a successful business?

Oh yeah, it's such a great question. Well, I think my origin story— so I spent a few years working in adaptation, taking books and translating them to film and TV. So I did that for a little while and really, really enjoyed it. I really love that process so much because I love books and stories so much. But what I didn't love was the sort of industry— the industry can be very challenging. And so I was completely burnt out. You know, we had made a film called Backroads, produced that like from the ground up, and that was very, very taxing, very challenging. So from that point, basically kind of looking at, you know, everything and thinking, okay, what do I really love to do? What am I good at doing? And very similar to your origin story, Nick, with BookThinkers, it was, I was working with a lot of different, you know, up-and-coming writers, you know, screenwriters, novelists, aspiring novelists, and just working with them closely and sort of realizing, okay, I'm kind of coaching these people. I'm kind of coaching the screenplay or the book out of them. And after a while of that, it just became apparent that that's something that I could do and really enjoyed doing as well.

I would love to hear your take on the importance of books. We get a lot of questions about, are books still relevant? Do they still have an impact? And like, what, you know, because nobody reads today. That's what we always get. So I would love your take on why you think books are essential for business owners and why you think they're essential in general.

Great question. Yeah, well, it's really interesting because we're in this space where, yeah, people with, you know, technology, with AI, with audiobooks, all these different ways of consuming content, it's become a thing where we feel like the physical book is maybe a little bit too outdated, right, and set in the past. But there is something very timeless about the book, and I think that, you know, what we're seeing is a shift between you know, the book as an elite kind of status symbol and everybody being able to have a book. I mean, I actually envision a future where the book— having a book is as common as having your own Facebook account, your own YouTube channel. Everyone's got one. And so the question becomes not so much, do you have a book? It becomes, how good is your book, right? Does it do for you what you need it to do? Does it sell? Does it bring you clients? Does it Tell the story in the most authentic way. So that's kind of where I see it going. And the data shows that that's where it's going to with self-published books. So it's really interesting.

We just had an author on our show a couple of weeks ago who, right in the beginning in his acknowledgments, he acknowledges ChatGPT because he said, you know, at first when I read that, I'm like kind of turned off by it. I'm like, you leveraged AI to write your book. But he went on to say that as somebody who had some learning disabilities and was not a very strong writer, that without the AI, he couldn't have written the book in the first place. I have mixed feelings admittedly, because I think that you can write a better book without the use of artificial intelligence. Do you agree with that?

Oh, this is such an interesting subject, right? AI, it's kind of like, so I, The way I see AI is like, I would say it's a really good collaborative partner. It's a really good idea generator. But when it comes to the writing, you really can't replicate the human voice, the human perspective, the human prose. I mean, so far it can't. Let's, you know, we're talking here in September 2023. Give it some time. Maybe that won't be the case. But as of today, I feel like there's no way of replicating that, the nuance of human tonality, right? So I think it's a useful tool for idea generation. I don't think you want to be relying on AI to write your book. There's a really good reason for that. And, you know, 4 million books are published every single year. So yours has to stand out. It has to be really good. And if we're relying on AI to do that for us rather than you know, going off of our own knowledge and expertise, and I think you're gonna struggle for sure.

You have a little bit of a contrarian view of writing being based on skill level and ability. I would love to hear your opinion on that because most of us think that we have to have, like, we have to be very skilled and we have to have this high ability to even be able to write. What's your opinion on that?

I love this question because it comes back to that difference of craft versus strategy, right? And I've seen like some of the best writers, their prose is so elegant, they are just incredible writers, but they never get published. Their books never see the light of day, right? They never finish anything. And so to me, it's less about the skill. The skill, yes, is important. But if you can't finish a product, if you can't actually finish a book and get it in front of the right audience, it doesn't matter at the end of the day. And so there is, you know, we live in a world of like end results and outcomes. And I think that that's, it's so important that we get our books out there. So for me, yeah, it's a lot less about the quality of the writing and more about the persistence of the author. Craft will come over time. But if you don't get your work out there, you never have the opportunity to really get better at it.

Ashley, can you tell us some of the services that you offer? So what exactly does your business provide in terms of services, and what are some of the expected outcomes if people choose to work with you?

I love it. Yeah, so we help people with 2 sides of the process: the writing side, which includes everything from ideation to planning the book, preparing to write, the writing mindset, which is a mindset for sure. You gotta overcome some imposter syndrome, some writer's block, all of those pieces. And we get them to the finished draft of their manuscript in 90 days or less. So that, in a nutshell, is Book Accelerator, and it's how we help folks, you know, churn out books when they don't consider themselves writers or they've never done this before. So that's the writing component. And then we help people publish in a couple of different ways. If they've got a great platform, really, really strong marketing, we can put them in front of publishers, select publishers that can support them with that, partner with them to get the book out. But more often than not, what we do is help folks with full-service self-publishing. And really, that's helping them to become their own publishing imprint and get their books out there. With the help of our expert team.

90 days? You can do it in 90 days? I mean—

Luke, you need that.

I know, I do need that. That's what I'm thinking. Like, most people have this belief that the writing process is like you had the 3-year process. So what's the difference between like what you coach people to do versus people who usually take that 3 to 5 years to write a book?

Oh my gosh, the difference is we have a really clear strategy. We have a method, a step-by-step, and it's you, you do these things in this sequence, right? And these core actions done week by week create a book. So you come in with an idea, you leave with a finished manuscript. That's how we treat it. We're very focused on strategy, which so many writing courses are not. They're mostly about how do you create your narrative, or if it's fiction, character, plot, world building, but you don't necessarily get to leave the finished book. So we're very focused on getting that first draft done because we understand that everything's possible. The world opens up for you once you have that first draft. You can get an editor, they'll help you polish it. You can, you know, find a ghostwriter even if you need one to come in and rewrite bits, you know, and you can of course get it published. So that's where everything changes once it's done.

What's the average commitment per week in terms of time into the entire process? So 90 days, 3 months, how many hours are people spending with you?

It works out to be on the writing side about 5 hours per week, somewhere between 5 to 7 hours per week of writing. And then on the planning side, that's where it can be a little bit heavier because we're doing things like structure. We're doing a lot of the legwork that people usually reserve until the book is ready to come out, the marketing preparation, looking at like ideal reader, Looking at the genre, how would you even create a logline or back of the book description. So we do all of that up front. That way, when you start writing, you're really clear and confident on what the book is that you're creating, and that creates a lot of momentum.

That's amazing. It's impressive to think that you guys have this process so nailed down that it's like, yeah, we can get you from literally idea to done book in 90 days. That blows my mind.

It took me 3 years. Yeah, so I got you.

I know. Well, that's the stories that we hear more often than not. So it's really cool that there's someone like you that has figured out this process and went through the pain yourself as well as, you know, taking those 3 years. Now I'm curious of how people and businesses can use books as leverage for more profit. Can you talk a little bit about that and like how that actually works?

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Absolutely. So one of the key things with leveraging your book is understanding that it's not all about the individual book sales. If you're sort of waiting for the, you know, the $2 royalty from the retailer, that's not necessarily the best way, obviously, to turn a profit. So what I find experts really want to be doing is looking at where they're going to leverage the book into the core offers they have in their business. And so I always say, like, there's a time to sell the book, and there's a time to leverage the book. Knowing the difference is the most important thing.

Can you maybe expound a little bit on the difference between knowing when to sell versus knowing when to leverage?

For sure. So you want to focus on sales initially because you really want to, you know, get a bestseller. Ideally, everyone wants to be a bestseller, whether that's Amazon or Wall Street Journal or, you know, the cream of the crop, which would be the New York Times bestseller. So you need to initially focus on sales, Absolutely. But then once you've achieved a bestseller, whichever status you're going for, you then kind of want to flip the switch and go into leveraging that in your business and really making sure that you're using the book for those key offers, whatever that looks like for you. So that's the time to start letting people know that, for example, they could get the book for free in exchange for a name and email address, which I typically recommend. people start with. And it's at that point that the book is actually more valuable to you if you give it away for free than if you're trying to sell it for $7, $10.

So is your average customer leveraging the book as, let's just say, a business card? So, you know, it's an opportunity to start an engagement, but they have something else behind the scenes, courses, coaching, consulting, things like that.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's the, it's the best type of business card. You know, usually business cards, or even if you put it digitally in your phone, we throw them away, they get lost. There's something about a book where if you give it to people, even if they don't read it, what you're doing is giving them so much value up front that it does create that kind of relationship and invite them to, you know, at least remember, oh yeah, you know, they gave me that book. So I actually feel like this is why shorter books are better for this purpose. Not that it has to be like a little PDF lead magnet style book, but a short, concise, high value book is going to really move the needle the most.

Yeah.

You talk a little bit about how podcasters in general might miss the fact that it's— or authors in general might miss the fact that it's not just any book, it's the right book. And so the right book does something for you and something for the reader, right? Not just something for the reader.

Oh yeah, absolutely. It has to be like a really high value add to that reader. So by the end of the book, they feel like they've accomplished something or they've learned something, they've made a step forward. That's the best type of impact that a book can have.

Now, to kind of follow my own curiosity, like this is 360, out of left field. But I'm so curious. So you finished your first book on December 30th-ish, 2014. I'm wondering, at that time, how did you feel? What was going through your mind as you typed the final words to this book?

My gosh, I was completely elated because I hadn't crossed that finish line for myself before. I'd written other content, other stories in my job, but For myself, it was a huge milestone because I think I'd proven that I could actually do the thing, and that, you know, that, that just that level of confidence that comes with finishing a book is— it's really something everyone should experience. You know, I feel like every person could benefit from writing a book. Not necessarily every book should be published that's written. Definitely not. But if you finish a book, the feeling of pride and accomplishment that it gives you is really, really special.

What percentage of the books being published today, from your opinion, from your perspective, you know, should have been reworked, like are missing something major?

Oh my goodness. I would say, you know, the nonfiction space is so strong. I really feel like the ones that are coming out from influencers, you know, Lewis Howes, Of course, Brendon Burchard is amazing. You know, the folks that I'm reading there, they're great. They're really, really high-quality nonfiction books. It's actually funny enough, the fiction world I feel like is struggling a little bit where I'll read some stuff and think, gosh, you know, this is such a high-profile author. I wonder if, you know, they're just kind of getting it out quickly or— so it's more in the fiction space where I sense that. I don't have a specific percentage, but there's, I would say maybe, you know, 1 in 4, I noticed something. Yeah.

With your business and your coaching, what percentage of the books that you're working on are fiction versus nonfiction?

Yeah. So we're mostly nonfiction these days. I would say about 80% nonfiction. We do get a fair few memoir and sort of, I would call them legacy projects where they're telling a family story, Or something of that nature. But for the most part, now we're nonfiction.

And do you think that's because nonfiction authors who are leveraging their book as a business card have a reason to afford your services? And like most of the time, fiction authors, it's a standalone product, right? Like they're not monetizing anything related to it?

For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. When you have a business, you've got a personal brand, it's very easy to offset the cost and see the ROI on the back end is is right there. They can sell a program, they can sell a keynote, and it more than pays for the cost of their book. So the lifetime value of investing in that as a product makes a lot more sense. If you're on the fiction side, it can be a little bit challenging because unless you're super creative, it could be a while until you see a way of recouping the investment. So typically those folks are treating it more like a degree. They're treating it more like a master's program or something like that.

So fascinating to me. I don't read a lot of fiction books. I've recently started to pick up a few here and there, but I mostly, you know, we're in the nonfiction space, so that's what I'm consuming like all the time. So I always find it fascinating to see the different sides of both fiction world and nonfiction world. And it blows me away just how many fiction books are out there. Like, I feel like it's like got to be super competitive and everything else, so I can't even imagine. Um, did you ever think your, your writing career would lead you to, number one, like working with celebrities? I know you've done some stuff with, um, Alex Pettyfer, I believe is how you say his last name. Um, did you ever think that writing would lead you to working with big celebrities and writing shows? I mean, like, did you ever feel that you were gonna do that?

Like, was that something you set out to do, or I mean, I always had hope that I would get to do some really cool things and work with great people, cool people. But it definitely was a surprise for sure. And it still is when I kind of look back on the entertainment side. And I'm not finished yet. I want to go back into that and continue working in that space. But yeah, it was a really neat experience. And what you see is people that are just really, really good at what they do and have excelled, you know, because of that skill, that talent, and of course, the hard work they put in.

And I know that we'll, we'll have you on again to talk about this at a later date, but you're in the process of putting out your next book. So I'm curious, was it a 90-day process? How long did it take you to write this next book? And what's it about?

Oh, so good. So this This book that I wrote is a nonfiction writing advice book. I did write it with one of my cohorts, one of my Book Accelerator cohorts, finished it in 40 days. So it was very quick. And so the method works. I keep putting myself through the paces to make sure this works and of course try to make it better if I can. But the title is— the working title at the moment is The Author's Success Code. It's a follow-up to my first book, The Writer's Success Code, but it really dives deeper into what I teach in these programs. The goal is that anyone can read it, apply it to their book, finish a great book. And of course, if they want to work with someone and get more guidance or mentorship, that's what we're here for.

I love that. And when did you say that book was trying to come out? Do you know?

Trying to come out hopefully Q1 or early Q2 next year.

It's exciting. I know we asked Nick that question many, many times over the last year and a half or so. When is the book coming out? When is it? Oh, I think it's going to be here. Oh, I think it's going to be here. So we understand that process as well. Nick, we're coming up onto around 30 minutes. Is there anything, other questions that you want to ask before we close it out?

Well, Ashley, since you're also working in this space, I'd love your perspective on the following question. My first book launches on November 1st, and what is something that maybe I'm missing as far as the PR and marketing side? Like, what do you think creates a successful launch? I have 6 more weeks until the book comes out at the time that we're recording this. So I just— maybe any last-minute advice that you have?

Yeah, I would say for you, Nick, that— and this is what I tell my clients all the time when they launch a book— is when you launch, right, you've got your launch day, it's the big day. And sometimes what happens is there's a little bit of a post-launch dip because there's so much push to the run-up, and then post-launch kind of falls off a little bit. I certainly was guilty of this too, and I know a lot of folks lose steam after that because it does take a lot of energy to get the book out. So I would say treat that launch as the beginning and not the end. So important.

Yeah, that's great advice. I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm putting a ton of effort into it. Like we've talked about before, I'm on multiple podcasts per day, creating all these deals with influencers. You know, we have the pre-launch campaigns and strategies, and a lot of them do have an end date, right? November 1st. But I've just got to push it. You know, I've got to restart it, I think. And get creative and wake up every day and say, what can I do to sell the book today?

Yeah, absolutely. And I always tell folks as well, when you're selling a book, lead with the value. Your book has so much value that it can help people with. Lead with that and you will sell books.

Oh, I love that. Well, Nick, that's good advice. It's just the beginning. It's just the beginning. Oh, maybe that's a little scary. I don't know. Would scare me a little bit, but exciting stuff. All right. Well, Ashley, I like to end the podcast with this last question and then we'll let you go. But if all the information that you put out, the courses, the books, everything that you've done disappears and you can only leave the world with one single piece of advice, what would it be?

It would be write your book before you die.

That one hit me. Yeah, Luke, gosh dang it. Gosh dang it. Oh man, it's something I've needed to do. I've written like several things, but man, I just need to put in the work now and get it out in 90 days. Wow, crazy. All right. Well, anyway, or 40. Or 40.

Luke, you can be done by the time my book comes out. We can launch together.

Smokes. All right. I mean, you're not wrong, I guess, if I just really put my head down, which I could do. All right. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for coming on today. We've had such a great, um, conversation. Appreciate all your wisdom and advice and for letting me ask some crazy questions. Uh, can't wait to have you back on some other time. It'll be, it'll be fun to get to know you a little bit better.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate both of you. It was a great conversation. So much fun.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, Please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.