155. Laura Casselman | Trust Your Increments

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Laura Kasselmann, author of Trust Your Increments. Laura is a CEO of a billion-dollar company, Wall Street Journal and Amazon bestselling author, former Rockette dancer, and balances all that with being a mom. Laura came from a small town and saw an opportunity from a young age. She got to see the Radio City Rockettes and knew that's what she wanted to do. After a fulfilling career there, she decided it was time to switch gears by entering corporate America. For better or worse, it was filled with challenges, from juggling her dance career to the worst kind of sexism. Yet she didn't let that stop her. undying belief that she was allowed to go after what she wanted. Now, years later, she's achieved incredible things and continues on the path to greatness. In this episode, you'll learn about Laura's background and how she went from Rockette to CEO, about the power of being yourself by not compromising your values, how to get what you want in life, how to build confidence, the importance of setting your future self up for success, and how you can have it all. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Laura. Laura Kesselman. Laura Kesselman, we are so excited to finally welcome you to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. I can't wait to talk to you about your book, Trust Your Increments, and a little bit about you. There's literally so much to cover. I wasn't sure where I wanted to start this at all, but I think we can maybe go back to you being a fitness model, dancer, and eventually performing on stage with the Rockettes to corporate America. Now, my question about that is, why did you feel the need to switch directions when it seemed as though your path was kind of set in front of you?

Well, I always knew that I was not going to retire from professionally dancing and open a studio. I did that while I was dancing. You know, I taught dance, but I knew that that was not my path in life. I was not a studio owner. And I loved business. I grew up watching my dad run his own business. Though it was a roofing and construction company, I saw all the behind-the-scenes stuff, and I loved that. And I love selling from when I sold Girl Scout cookies. So I always dual resume. I did both when I was in New York City. I built my corporate America resume, and I built my dance resume. And there were times that I was frustrated, right? Because I felt somebody was advancing faster than me. I had to keep remembering that I was on 2 ladders at once. So I was fortunate, right? When I stopped dancing, I stepped into my first executive position.

So I'm curious. Oh, Luke, go ahead.

No, no, it's okay. You go, go.

Well, I'm curious, selling Girl Scout cookies, what did you learn at that age? Like, what did you learn about sales and marketing, about product, about service? I mean, do you still think about any of those lessons today?

All the time. So I wanted the badge, right? I told you guys a long time ago, I gamify everything. I am like, I love competition. I to win. And with the Girl Scouts, we got badges depending on the things we did. And I wanted the badge so badly. So I lived in a super, super small town and there were limited people to sell to. But I sat down and it was like one of those phones that goes in a circle dialing. It took forever to dial someone's phone number. But I pulled out the phone book and I just started dialing everybody. And I would say, hi, I'm Laura, Susan and Larry's daughter, and I'm calling about Girl Scout cookies. And people would even say, Laura, my daughter's in your troop. And I would say, yeah, I know. What cookies did you buy? And they would tell me, and I would say, okay, but you didn't get these, and I really think you should get these because they're not only my favorite, but don't you want our troop to win? And they would buy cookies for me too. And I thought, this is so cool. And people would just love that I had the nerve to call. You know, and I didn't feel like it was the nerve. I just wanted the badge. So hindsight, I learned to accept no really early, as that was your first answer. We got it out of the way. Now let's work on that yes. But also, it was just that I knew my end goal.

And I love that you were dialing for dollars at that age instead of just standing outside of a grocery store and trying to sell to everybody that walked by. Like, you were using alternative tactics that I'm sure a lot of people were sort of scared to do at that age. So that's really cool. And Luke, I know I hogged it from you, so I'll kick it back over.

No, it's completely fine. These stories are great. I'm so curious, like, from such a young age, you already had like this entrepreneurial mindset, it seemed. Is that something that you felt was cultivated, nurtured, nature? What do you— what's your take on that?

Okay, so my parents were very big on, if you want it, that's really cool. We're not going to buy it for you. But we will meet you halfway. So when Nintendo came out and my sister and I wanted Nintendo, that's really cool. When you earn half the money, we'll pay for the other half. And we were both like, how do we make money? We started a grass cutting business. We would go and cut people's grass. Of course, we had to borrow my parents' lawnmower and gas, and then we had to pay them for gas. You know, we do things like that. I got to the point where I knew what I wanted and how I needed money so badly. I grew up on the number 3 fairway of the Clio Country Club. It only had 9 holes, so don't think I grew up in a fancy place. It was not an 18-hole golf course. There was a cotton field in my backyard. But I would walk over and sit on the tee, the number 4 tee box, and sell mulligans, and they let me. I was just like, oh, that was a bad hit. Dollar mulligans right here. And people would give me a dollar for a mulligan that didn't exist.

That's amazing.

Yeah, where there's a will, there's a way. And I did hear that tape because my mom listened to it.

I love that. Do you— are you grateful? Do you look at that, like, that lens of your parents, I don't know, forcing you to go out and kind of fend for yourself at such a young age? Do you look at that through a lens of gratitude, or do you look at that through a lens of, oh man, I can't stand that they did that? Are you doing something similar with With your daughter?

Yes. So I love it. I love that my mother in the Southeast during that time raised very independent girls. I love that she kind of knew what we were going to face in life, made us strong, made us know how to get what we needed in life. We learned how to use our voices. I've spoken to you about this before. I make sure my daughter— currently she's 3, so That she knows how to use her voice and that she's articulate, maybe too articulate right now.

But— Well, it's so important. I love, I love your message. I have 2 daughters of my own, and I know we've had a lot of conversations about this, but I love your message of empowering women to go after the things that men are going after. And it's so, it's so difficult for women to do that even in 2023, which honestly just blows my mind. So what are some of your like go-to tips when you're talking to young women who want to be entrepreneurs and work in the corporate world? Like, what are your, some of your, your go-to tips that you talk to them about?

I think it's really important for women to understand no one can read your mind and they're not supposed to, and you don't want them to read your mind. So if you need something or you want something, you must speak up. You were given a voice. Use it. Now, don't waste it. Don't just run on with hot air about anything, but in the right situations, speak up, voice what you want, make sure that you've got, you know, the stuff to back it up. But also understand that when it comes to men, they will apply for jobs they are not qualified for all the time and get them because you as a female didn't apply because you thought, I'm missing one piece of this, you know, list of qualifications. Apply. The worst that can happen is someone will say no. Not a big deal.

So you've obviously become very successful and you're very— you have a strong voice. You're very— you display a lot of certainty when you speak. And so not only should you speak up, but you also have to be articulate, know what you're talking about. So I'm curious, do you have any public speaking tips? I mean, when people ask us about the content that we produce, oftentimes I'll send them your videos because you're so well-spoken and you present yourself so well. I'm just curious if you have any tips for anybody in the audience.

Well, I am confident, but I'm confident because I am constantly exercising my confidence muscle. You know, I say that, but I'm constantly working on the next thing. I prove to myself daily that I will show up for myself because I'm a big believer that no one else owes us anything in life, that we have to show up for ourselves first. So if I have a dream, it's no one else's job to hand me that dream. It's my job to go after that dream and not just let the time pass. So I believe that just daily actions make me feel confident. Also, I speak a lot. I do a lot of podcasts. I do a lot of talking to team members, employees, people that I'm mentoring. The more you speak, the better that you become at something. You know, I think I said even in one of the videos we filmed together, one of the easiest things you can do is just start calling to order your food instead of doing it on DoorDash. It's just simple interaction. And so often in life, we get behind these screens and just message and text, and we don't have real conversation. But our voices are a gift, and we should be using them.

Yeah, I'll just— a quick comment, Luke, and then I'll kick it over to you for the next question. I saw a reel the other day that popped up on my feed, and it was this girl saying like, uh, no, you order, no, you order. Like, I would rather die than ordering. I would rather throw up than ordering. And it's like, Pick up the phone. I don't understand why this next generation coming up today is so scared to talk to somebody else through a mobile device. Like, it's literally the safest thing you could possibly do on the planet. Your phone cannot hurt you. The person on the other end cannot hurt you. So I don't get it. But your comment made me think of that. It was funny.

I mean, just to comment on that, Nick, I just think that so many people are so insecure in themselves that it's so difficult to do that. I know that. I mean, thankfully, I don't struggle with that as much anymore because I'm just like, I don't care what people think of me. But there's definitely been times in my life that I have like been nervous to pick up the phone. I'm like, this is ridiculous. This is ridiculous that I'm even nervous to do this. But going back to you, Laura, I'm curious, you've had a lot of challenges throughout your career. And what is the thing that kept you going? I know that, and this might be, we can talk about this a little bit, but Men have asked you to do some very inappropriate things for money and all kinds of crazy stories that you have. And I'm wondering, like, what is that thing that kept you going and not just like take that as, okay, this is how the world is and I give up?

Well, one, this is my life. I think if more people looked at it that way, this is my life. I am in control of it. I'm in the driver's seat. I cannot control other people. But it's your podcast, Nick, so I'm going to watch my language. I'll be darned if I'm going to let someone else determine how far I will go in my own life, right? I refuse for some small man with a big voice to tell me where the end of the line is for me. And it doesn't mean that it doesn't feel awful, and it doesn't mean that there haven't been times that I have gone home and bawled my eyes out. There were times in New York City that I could barely get off the subway before I started crying because of what had happened on the subway to me. But this is my life. It's not one day. It's not one moment. It's my entire life, and I am in the driver's seat.

I'm curious. I mean, you have so much confidence. You have a strong will. you can control a situation, but you're also very approachable. I mean, when we went down and worked with you, we had James on our team with us, and he just fell in love with you and sort of your home life and everything instantly. He was like babysitting the next day before he took a flight. So I'm curious, what— how do you balance approachability with certainty?

Well, one, you know, I'm a human being, and I want to be polite to other human beings. I was raised in the Southeast. I was raised with manners, although you guys know I curse like a sailor. That's not the way my mother raised me.

You can curse on here if you want to.

Feel free. You know, but I, I want to treat people the way I want them to treat me until they show me that they don't deserve my time or my respect, and in which case I don't need to disrespect them. I need to excuse them from my life. I don't wanna waste my time with people like that. I just need to say, you no longer matter. I don't see you anymore. Go stand over there with your people, and y'all go complain together, because that's what those people are gonna do anyway. They're the people that are gonna get in groups and complain, because misery loves company. I don't wanna be miserable. Yes. Do I wanna get together with my friends every once in a while and say, I've had a really bad day, and I'm so angry at this person or this situation? But then the next day I want to get up and move on with my life because I'm not one for sitting around being that way. And I think when you present yourself as someone that's like, hey, I'm genuinely here to share as much as I can and to learn from you what I can, people see that and they feel it instantly. You know, my last home that you guys came and filmed in, my whole point of making that home, I didn't want it to look like I've got money. I wanted my house for anyone that I invited in my door to feel like I'm at home.

I love that.

That way, by the way.

I love that. Um, you know, with such resolve, you have such resolve every time I talk to you. You know, Nick mentioned confidence. You have confidence and resolve. And I'm, I'm wondering, like, that those times that you sat on the, on the subway crying, like, have you struggled with the negative voice in your head, like, keeping you down for long periods of time? Or is it— have you always just been like this? You just, I don't know, just get rid of it like instantly? Like, what's, what's been your, your mindset towards that? Because I'm sure you do have a negative voice. We, we all do, right?

Absolutely. And so I'm fortunate, like, I, I lean towards happiness. I, I have a positive disposition in life.

I do.

That I was just born with. There have definitely been times where things felt heavy for extended amounts of time. I, I believe one is that I know when I need to get out of my own way, right? Because sometimes we're so comfortable in the ick that we sit in it, right? And, and sometimes we just have to be responsible for our happiness and say, enough of this. I go through that now. And this is a new phase in my life where I have to say, you know, that if you get up and work out, you will feel better the entire day. I have to actually tell myself that, whereas before I was like, I don't know why people complain about working out. This is the best thing ever. It's a new phase in my life. I talked myself through it. Sometimes I have to set a timer that says, when this timer goes off, you will actually go out to the gym. But I think like it's just taking responsibility and saying, you know, no one else is gonna deliver what I want out of life to me. I've gotta go get it every day. And when I'm in the funk, just saying like the simplest thing, working out will release endorphins that will make me feel better, and I don't have to pay for it. I can do it outside. I can do it inside in my den. I can do it while I watch TV if I want to. It's pretty easy.

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Yeah, that's— it's so powerful. I know, like, I'm one who has— there's been times in my life where I've gotten really caught up in that ick and that negative voice. And there's, there's been days— I mean, there's been, there's been months that it's just difficult getting out of bed. But even during those times, I still had to set in my head, like, like you just said, like, I'm gonna work out this morning because it will make me feel just a little bit better. Maybe not 100%, but it'll make me feel better than if I didn't do it. And sometimes that, that little bit is enough to, to get you going. So kind of switching gears back and going all over the place, but I just, I wanted to, to, to go back kind of to the beginning of our conversation because I'm curious about it. So when you had your, your kind of your feet in both, in both the, you know, the Rockettes and this, this whole performance world, and then also in this corporate world, did you feel that served you or did you feel like that, that didn't like Lots of people would be in that situation and do both things poorly and fail miserably at both of them because they didn't focus on one thing. So what are your thoughts around that, especially like people listening to this that they're like, oh, maybe I can do this and this and do it well, or maybe I can't? What's your thoughts on that?

So yes, I do think it served me, especially now, right? When I knew that I wasn't going to open a dance studio, when I knew that later in life I wanted to do something big in business, I didn't know what it was going to be. You know, I, I have founded companies now. I am the CEO of a large tech company now. So yes, it definitely helped me prepare for the later years after I would no longer be at Radio City Music Hall kicking it with the Rockettes. But there were times, and I say like that I was jealous of other people, but it was also, it was questioning, was I doing the right thing? As a performer or an athlete, you always know your time is limited. You, whether it's an injury that takes you out, whether it's age that takes you out, you know that your time is limited and you want to give it everything you've got. So I would question when I would see other girls that were doing Broadway shows or they were on television, when I would turn my TV on dancing on the Gap commercial or, you know, whatever they were doing. I bet my friends are wondering, why is Laura not in Gap commercials? They weren't. They weren't even thinking about me. Like, I was making it egotistical and about me. No one was wondering, why isn't Laura doing this too? I was performing with the Rockettes. I was climbing the corporate ladder. And like I said, sometimes I had to realize you don't deserve what that person has in this world because you're climbing 2 ladders at once. And when they finished dance and had no idea what they were doing with their lives, I was an executive in New York City, right? And so they were probably like, well, how is Laura there? And what's Laura doing? It all works out. But I think whatever you decide you're going to do, you just have to commit to it, because yes, it's hard. It's really hard to do 2 careers at one time. It's possible if you have the time, and if you do have a family, it's really hard. I can't even say what I would have done if I was a mom at that point in time. I don't think I could have, but I was younger and was able to do it.

Yeah, that's so powerful too. And I just love, I love hearing these stories and getting this perspective because I think also like so many people look at things very black and white and they're like, oh, it has to be this way or it has to be that way. But I think it's also cool because it highlights, you know, you had, you had different ideas and maybe you had some doubt about what you were doing, but you knew that eventually, okay, I'm not gonna, I don't want to have a dance studio. So if I don't want to go that route, then I guess I got to go some other route. So I love how you were thinking through your future while you were doing these things. Now I'm curious, fast forward a little bit. You, I mean, you went into tech, which is, I mean, probably like the most male dominated, especially at the time, the most male dominated field that there is. So why did you want to get into tech? Like what was the thing that inspired you to do that?

Honestly, there was opportunity. There was an opening for me to come in and use my talents as a consultant. And it was just in operations. And I think that's a key thing too that fits in with what we were previously discussing when I was climbing 2 corporate ladders or 2 ladders at one time, is that if you're looking for opportunity, you will find it. And that's what I was doing, right? I was looking for opportunity all the time. And the same was when I was consulting. There was opportunity. I took the opportunity. Then I became the COO of the company because I utilized that opportunity not just to my advantage, but to the company's advantage. I knew I could, could help them. I did help them. And then they wanted me full time. The day I took the COO position, I said, I will be your CEO. I will take this job like I knew I would and I wanted it like I— and I didn't just want it because, hey, my ego wants to be the CEO. I love the company. I love what we were doing. I understood it so thoroughly and I was like, I'm gonna do great. Now, I'm not a developer, I'm not writing code, but I know this company, I know its customer base, and I know how to serve them.

Yeah. And I mean, like, those are different skill sets too, right? Like, the ability to be a CEO of a company and run a company is different than the ability to program and code a website or an app or what have you. And sometimes, you know, there's crossover, but they don't necessarily go hand in hand. So that's just such an inspiring story. I just, I think about, you know, I think about my girls and them growing up, and I'm trying to encourage them to be strong women as well. And there's still so many fields out there that are very male dominated. And I've noticed that talking to some friends and everything, that that has stopped them from going after jobs that they want because they're like, oh man, this field is just dominated by men. I don't think I can get into it. I don't think it touches. So what is your advice to those, those women that are trying to get into fields that seem like they're more dominated by men?

Well, you are going to face sexism. And a lot of times it won't even be intentional. And you can politely correct people, you know, and just keep it moving, knowing what your end goal is. Because if this is something you want, who's in the driver's seat of your life? Again, you have to decide, do I want this? Or do I want to let other people tell me what My life is going to look like, and I think what's really important for women to know as well is a lot of times now we have this: you can be the pretty girl in pink and glitter, and you can be the smart girl doing these things. You can be the smart girl in pink and in glitter, and it's fine. Like you know what I mean? I love glitter. I don't wear it a lot, but like do I love things that sparkle? Absolutely. Do I love having a little mini me right now that I can buy all the pink glitter sparkly? things for? Yes. I'm not gonna be the one carrying the pink glitter notebook into a boardroom, but it doesn't mean that I'm not gonna buy a pair of like sparkly shoes and wear 'em just because I can.

Luke, you're on a roll, my friend.

I'm sorry. I just, yeah, you can ask something. I'll stop hogging it.

You know, and I'll just say one more thing too. We don't have to fit in boxes. People want us to fit in boxes. We wanna put people in boxes so we understand them. And I think a lot of times if we just said, hey, that person's just trying to understand me and that's why they're putting me in this compartment or in this box. And if we looked at it from that point of view and just said, but let me show them I can dance in this box, I can go work in this box, and I can come over here because, whoa, I'm multifaceted. Look at that. You know?

So what I'm, what I'm sort of the most curious about Right now, just because I've been asked about it a lot recently, is why do you think you have so much energy and so much drive to go after success in life? And right now, you know, you've already put out the book, you've already made a lot of money, you have your daughter, you're focusing on her, but like you continue to get up and go to the gym and be the best version of yourself and improve yourself. Like, why is that? Because today so many people are just Asleep at the wheel. They're just blah. Like, they're not energized. They're not focused on trying to get more energy. They're just blah. Like, what is it about you? Is it born? What is it? I don't want to give A, B, or C. I just kind of want to hear what you're thinking.

Well, I think what a miserable life, right? Like, my grandmother, who we've talked about before, is 101, 101 and a half. And I guess at this age now, you need to start counting these half years. And the women in my family live long lives. I am 44. If I looked at what's left of my life and I was asleep at the wheel, how miserable. What a waste. Would I even live as long as her? I don't know. I remember telling my sister several years ago, she was in the midst of a divorce and she really felt like life was over. And I laughed and It was offensive, as it should have been. But I laughed because of the thought that I was having. And I said, can you imagine if Meemaw— that's what I call my grandmother, I'm Southern— but if Meemaw at your age said my life was over? It wasn't even halfway. It wasn't— she wasn't even to the halfway point at 40 years old. And you can actually live your entire life over twice more. Like, That's crazy. So I don't want to be asleep at the wheel. I want to be in control of my life. And I said this at your event as well. I will never be the person who says, I wish I would have. I may be the person that says I didn't, and it was disappointing. I've done that many times, but at least I know I'm never wondering what would have happened had I tried. What would have happened if I had actually gone through with that? I know because I did it.

How I feel too. So I'm happy you feel that way. All right, back to you, Luke.

Well, I wanna, you know, there's so many concepts, there's so many concepts in your book. I had tons of notes written down from, from this. I mean, I've, I have dissected this, you know, marked it up like crazy and have tons of notes in this thing. But I think maybe we can go to this quote, which I, I just, I, I love because I think the, the world has this warped view of being selfish. So the, the quote is this: physical and emotional needs being met is not selfish. I had to sit there and think about that one for a while because we live in a world where, you know, we've been taught, we've grown up, oh, don't be, don't be selfish, be selfless. And I loved that, that just, that just that phrase right there got me to rethink what that meant. It's like working out is a little bit selfish, but I'd love to, to know your take on being selfish and what that means to you and what that looks like in your life.

Being selfish or doing things that we should do for ourselves.

Hmm.

Because being selfish is when you aren't considering other people. But when you are doing things for yourself that aren't selfish, that means you recognize that no one else can take care of my body. I have to take care of my body so that I can show up for the people that I care about. There are a lot of people that depend on me, not just my child, Not just my parents and my family, but there are people whose paychecks come because of me. And if I don't take care of the one home I have my entire life, my body, if I don't get up and work out, if I don't watch the things that I eat, if I don't take time to make sure that I'm mentally okay, then I deteriorate and I take them all down with me. And that is selfish.

So why do you think that the world has been built up in this, this, with this warped view of what selfish is? Because it seems like that's, that's more of the problem, right? Because we look at working out, I know that I get up every single day and work out, and I've literally had friends tell me that I'm spending, you know, time away from my children, that it's wrong. But I'm like, don't you get it? I get to spend more time with my children because I'm working out, and I get to actually be there and Have fun with it. But why do you think that is?

And you're showing your children that it's okay for them to take care of themselves, and that exercise makes you happier and it makes you healthier. So you're demonstrating by example, first of all. So that's not selfish, that's actually doing more than just speaking it, it's living it. Um, but on top of that, I, I think that it probably came from our warped work culture where it was produce, produce, produce, produce, produce. And we didn't at the time realize that when we made people behave like machines, that they would break down like machines but wouldn't be as easily repaired. And like for me, I pay my employees to work out. Like I actually pay my employees to step away from their desk. And it's very hard to get developers to step away. So I let them set their own rewards. Like, I'm like, okay, let's do a 4-week fitness competition. How many days a week do we need to show up? And I'm like, minimum 4. And so they may say 4, sometimes they'll say 5. And I'm like, okay, and what do you want to win? Do you want to win money? Do you want to win gift certificates? Do you want to win iWatches? What do you want to win this time? And sometimes it's not even something expensive. They're just like, hey, we want this cool new Water bottle, or we want you know whatever they saw in some newsletter. And I'm like, cool. Then I'm gonna order them, and I'm gonna order enough for everybody right now because I think you're all winners. And if you don't complete the fitness challenge, we'll just all look at your box of stuff right here that you never got to collect because you didn't show up. You know? But I want them to see the prize. Eye on the prize and know like, hey, I'm showing up for me, and I want them to know like I. I'm your employer, but I believe in you being healthy because it's gonna cost me less than healthcare, and you're gonna show up a happier person, and you're gonna get the work done, and you're not gonna be like the cancer that spreads in my company because you truly wanna be here. Fact.

I love that. We're gonna have to implement that at Book Thinkers.

It's cool. It's cool. All they have to do is do social proof— like, not social proof, we do it in our Slack channel— but do proof. Like, they can be sweaty workout, they can show me on their fitness, you know, watch or on their phone, or they can show me like whatever fitness class they were at at the gym, just some proof that they did it.

Yeah, we use Slack too. That's a good idea. We have a daily workouts channel, but it's— there's no incentive to post in there. So I think, you know, there's periods of time that it kind of goes down. What is— okay, so you have the book. What is next for you? What's your current focus? Are you Yeah. What do you think about for the next couple of years?

So I'm focusing on our mastermind now where we help business owners. So you've got to be executive level or founder and helping business owners that are at 7 digits grow. So that's what I want to help. I want to help people grow with money but get more of their time back. And I'm also, for me, focusing on my speaking. I'm really gonna work on where I'm showing up, where I'm speaking, and just sharing knowledge because I said this before, there is enough for everybody and I wanna help people get there because then we're all happier and the world's a nicer place.

Well, there are plenty of founders or executive level listeners who are at 7 digits. So I'm curious, can you share pricing? Can you share structure? Like how would an interested party get in touch with you if they think they're a good fit for this mastermind and They wanna make more money and make more time.

Yeah. So if you are making 7 digits, even if it's only on the revenue level, and you feel like you're stuck or you're working too much, or more importantly, that if you truly stepped away from the business, it would fall apart. If you had to leave for an extended amount of time or vacation, that your business could not stand up without you, then you're probably a good fit. It is $25,000. We'll meet 4 times in person. We'll have monthly calls. You can submit questions in advance. We actually address your real issues. And I'm being very particular about who I allow to be in this. It's going to be people all around the same level. I'm not going to let people that are like, what's an avatar? You know that you can Google it, you can find that out on your own. I want you to have gotten to a certain point where you've got at least 7 digits and you're ready to come and take your business to the next level.

I love it. All right, here's my final question, uh, before we have you on again in a few months.

Cool.

What book have you gifted the most over the last 12 months and why? Oh, other than your book? Other than your book?

Yeah, I was gonna say, in the last year, I've definitely given away a lot of my books. Okay, well, it's about to be your book because I just ordered so many of them. So that one's next. Um, but for right now, I would say Total Money Makeover. And the reason being is that a lot of times people will ask me for financial advice, and I see all the things that they're doing, but they don't necessarily want to hear that from a friend or someone they know. So I'll say, whether or not you believe in the religious side of this book, take it and just start with the basics. And when you get control over your life, then you're not going to need to ask me the next question. You're going to make sure you find a good financial advisor.

I love that. I love that. Well, thanks for answering and indulging my question about what's next. I think the application-only mastermind concept is pretty cool and, you know, it's great to get to learn from you on this podcast for free. I feel like, okay, divided by 4, I'm saving a little bit of money here. I get like personalized mentorship. All right, kick it over to Luke.

All right, Laura, this is the last question that I love to ask all of our guests. And that's this. You pass away and all the information that you've put out, the courses, the books, everything disappears, but you can leave the world with a single piece of advice. What would it be?

This is good. To remember that you're in control of your own life.

Yes.

Yes.

That is so good. And I think that so many people don't remember that. We need that reminder every single day. So that's such a great piece of advice. All right. So the final, final question is this. Where can people go to find out more about you and where can they buy your book?

lauracastleman.com and everything's on there, even the book. And I'm constantly changing and updating things. I'm about to have a real update on that site, but please do come visit. Find me on social media. Say hello. I do respond. I actually respond to people. So please message me. I've responded to you guys on social media, right?

I was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say you responded to us. So I can, we can attest to that.

Absolutely.

All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Can't wait to have you on again. This has been a blast.

Thank you.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.