157. Carl J. Cox | Lost at CEO

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Carl J. Cox, author of Lost at CEO: An Entrepreneur's Guide to Strategy. Carl is a CEO and founder of 40 Strategy. He has been an executive leader in 7 different organizations who have grown by 2 to 7 times. He is also a speaker, teacher, and a podcast host of Measure Success Podcast, where he talks to everyone from entrepreneurs to top executives from Fortune 500 companies. Carl grew up in poor conditions, but with moving across the country and adopting a new mindset, he was able to achieve incredible things. By his mid-20s, he no longer had to worry about paying his bills and started to look for something more. Realizing that financial success wasn't everything he thought it would be, he embarked on a mission of self-growth. Eventually, it would lead him to founding 40 Strategy and helping others build the life of their dreams. In this episode, you'll learn about Carl's background, what success actually is, why it's important to know your values, how to find your strengths and lean into them, and why a good strategy is one of the most important factors Now, get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Carl J. Cox.

Carl, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. We are so excited to talk to you about your book, Lost at CEO: An Entrepreneur's Guide to Strategy. And what a wonderful way to spend our time talking to someone who has a passion for helping people grow their businesses and with some of them doing 7 times what they were doing before you joined. I want to start with asking, after creating so much success for yourself and others, what is something that you believe that success would give you that turned out not to be true?

Great question. I love it. Thank you so much once again for the opportunity to be on the show today. And I think success is such a fascinating thing, and I think it is something that has to be self-defined for each person. But one of the things I was really fortunate to earn Pretty early in my career because I remember having that point where I no longer had to worry about my bills anymore.

Okay?

Like literally I didn't have to worry about paying the rent or paying the mortgage and paying any car payments. And matter of fact, I got this point, I remember when I actually had no debt, no house payments, like literally I was completely debt-free and I had this really funny So did this make me happy? Did this bring me joy? And I realized it didn't. Now, just to clarify, not sweating over paying bills was a big deal. You have to get past that point. I think it's really hard to find joy when you're struggling to pay, provide food and get food on the table. And I, by the way, I grew up on free and reduced lunch. I grew up on welfare. I know what it's like to not have money. So for people going, oh, you don't know what it's like. No, I know what that's like. For though, Nick, you live you live near where I grew up, which is Lynn, Lynn, the City of Sin, when I was really young. And if anybody's familiar with that, most people are like, how are you still alive? Okay? So it's a tough town and I grew up with that. But once I got past that point, and I remember this is my early 20s, you know, early to mid-20s, I no longer had to worry about bills anymore. And I remember going, there's more to it than this. And I'm very grateful for literally that really early age point. I recognized You know, I married my high school sweetheart. We started having kids relatively early. Like by the time I was 25 years old, we had our first kid. Now have 4. And I recognize being, having a relationship with them, having a sense of faith, that's the stuff. And being present matters. And then in my vocation, I want to make sure I'm doing excellent work, that I'm actually creating value for others. that I'm doing a good job. That's the stuff that gets me out of bed each day. Today, what gets me out of bed is giving. So, we give the first 10% of our revenue to charity today. And so, that's what gets me excited, gets me fired up. And so, we have a goal of giving well over $1 million. We're on our way of doing that to charity over the next decade. And so, that's the passion that I have. And so, it gets me really excited. And so, with this, Nick, I didn't want to forget, I'm going to say it right now, part of our generosity Is, is we, part of what we're talking about today is Lost CEO, our book. And, and with that, anybody who's on your podcast, they send an email directly to me, not to anybody else on our show here, carljcox@40strategy.com. You spell that out, C-A-R-L-J-C-O-X at 40strategy.com. I will send you a free signed copy of the book. So I hope this will change your life just like Nick has changed so many others' lives. with reading books. It really doesn't make a difference. And that was a big part also of my life is reading and learning, but we can go into that later. But hopefully, that answers your question. It's not simple. Once again, I think it's a different definition for each person, but there's more to it than your bank account.

I remember reading Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl for the first time, and I remember somewhere at the end of the book, he talked about purpose, how it's unique for each individual. How if you say, hey, what's the best chess move to a chess grandmaster? They would say, well, it depends on the circumstance. It depends on the situation and the player's style. And I think that success is sort of the same thing, right? Each person has their own unique definition of success. So here's my question. What do you think most people are striving for as far as success is related that they'll end up finding that's really not what it's all about? Like, what's the biggest misconception or misunderstanding about success, especially over here in the West, in the US?

Yeah, I think it does come down to money and wealth. I think at its core, I think that's the biggest misconception of happiness, or perhaps fame. They think if we are all of a sudden on the COVID of Time magazine or a YouTube, you know, famous person and they've got a million views, there's been enough data, folks, that People can still be wildly unstable and have those accomplishments, right? They don't have peace and joy in their life. And so that's really what it comes down to, is finding what is it in your life that's going to actually bring you a sense of peace and joy regardless of the circumstances around you, right? Because life is not easy. And even when you have success, that's, I think, the thing that I've learned by talking with so many successful people who never have to work a day again in their life. They have problems too. They have sicknesses, they have family members who die, they have businesses that fail, right? I've talked with many people that have had it all and have lost everything. But when they haven't lost everything is when they haven't lost their soul in the process, right? When they've been able to realize that the relationships— I think the biggest thing, what's been the most challenging is, you know, I've been to too many funerals over my life, my young life. And just clarify, those who are wondering, I'm Almost, just almost 50 years old here. And so, one of the things that I've learned is people at a funeral, they never talk about your vocation. They never talk about how much money you made. They never talk about your accomplishments at work, but they will talk about the relationships and how you impacted and helped them out, how you made a difference in their life. And so, that's where I, as I continue to get older, Getting ready to cross this magical 50 barrier. You know, I want to make sure once again that there's meaning. And I think it's harder sometimes when you're younger to see that, right? Because you're like, ah, I need this amount of this money. And just to clarify, I want to say this is super important. I have no problem with you becoming a billionaire. I am not one of these people who are like, don't make any money and it's not going to make you happy. That's silly. Be successful. You can. Put as many dollars as you can in your bank account. Just recognize that's not necessarily going to bring you joy. And that's the difference, is understanding that there's other parts, other matters that are going to have a greater significance in your life.

I just want to back up a little bit. And first of all, thank you for giving your book out to some of our listeners here. That is so exciting. I think often, you know, at Book Thinkers, we take it for granted a little bit because we are surrounded by so many books all the time. But we do believe the right book at the right time can change somebody's life. So, that is such a gift to our listeners and a gift to us. So, thank you so much for that. I'd love to back up. You said you came from welfare and from almost like poverty. Like, what was your mindset during those periods of time that got you to change and say, oh, I want to be successful? Because so many people that are born into those situations give up.

Yeah.

So what kept you going and why didn't you give up? And why did you see more? Did you dream more? Like, how did you get out of that?

Yeah, good question. So I, one of the things I was really fortunate when I was relatively young, my mom moved us out to Oregon away from Lynn. And I don't mind saying that got us out of a really difficult part of poverty. So hey, if you're Lynn, move out. That was the old days. It's not as bad as it used to be. Yeah, Nick, go ahead.

Can I interject real quick because you mentioned Lynn a couple of times? I saw a funny reel the other day where it said, welcome to Lynn, Massachusetts, and it was showing like beaches in Bahamas and like the amazing like islands and stuff. And all the comments were like, this is definitely not Lynn, Massachusetts. And you know, they picked Lynn for that video because of the irony. So just to give everybody some context, Lynn, Lynn, the city of sin, not a place. What, isn't there like a second half to that? Something about—

Yeah, well, there's There's a lot of them. Lin-Lin, the city's seen you never come out the same way you came in. And there's many others. Yes. Some are more foul that we can't say on this podcast, but yeah, yeah, it's, there's a lot of them.

Sorry, I was trying to find my unmute button. I was just trying to give some context to everybody. Sorry to interrupt your story.

No, no, no worries. So, so I was pretty young. Mom moves out to Oregon. We, we literally have 3 different dads, 4 kids. Grew up once again, It wasn't lived. We were in poverty through much of my time growing up. And, but one of the things I was just really fortunate with, they, there was families around us that even though I, my dad wasn't around, I got to see other dads that were doing things the right way. And it was like, oh, that's really cool. And there was families that, you know, when we didn't have as much food on the table, we can go over to their house and have some food. And so there was these other families that were like good role models to me. And then I also, I was really fortunate once again finding the right role models. I was in 8th grade and I was starting to get into trouble, meaning I was starting to, you know, drink and, you know, like literally that, that young and, and like getting into trouble and not doing some good stuff. And there was a neighbor who actually ended up becoming, he was a high school star. His name is Brett Collins. And our team, the football team I was with, they were one of the top teams in the state that year. He said, hey, Carl, I'm going to— you go to the game tonight, I'm going to return a kickoff for a touchdown and you watch and I'll point out to you. And he did. He literally returned a kickoff for a touchdown. He pointed out to me. And so I had now this role model that I wanted to be like him. Now, just to clarify, he's a way better athlete than I ever will be. He ended up playing playing for the Washington Huskies, won a national championship there, and then played in the league for 5 years in the NFL. So complete stud. But what's really neat is I have been able to follow and connect him over the years. Matter of fact, his daughter is now a professional soccer player. Just some really cool stuff. But what I'm saying here is they gave me something. They gave me something to get out. And so football became my passion. And so I remember when I was— after got through that spot and then I was like, I want to do something. I want to play football. I want to play underneath the Friday night lights. And given— keep it context here. Back then, well, I'm still not tall. I'm 5'8, and back then I was probably 120 pounds.

Okay?

I'm not a big guy, but football was how I was going to get out. It was my way, my passion. And the coach had these great values and these great concepts. And so I made it. I got to play. I played underneath the Friday night lights, and it really gave me purpose. It helped me to get through school. It helped me to get out, get off drugs and, and not, you know, not, not do— well, I never got on drugs, just to clarify. That was one thing my brother at 18 years old, when I was 12, he said, never take it. And I never did. So I'm grateful for that. I never got into that. But, but that's that. Those were the things that helped me get out and it gave me some purpose. And, and literally I almost went back to coaching high school football and teaching history because I wanted to give back to those same people who gave back to me. Now, I didn't end up doing that because I had these business opportunities, but I did end up coaching 25 seasons of youth sports. And it's a big reason why I give money today. I have this goal and passion I give towards these organizations that if they can help somebody like me who was lost and get to be found and find their purpose, it's amazing what humans could do.

Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I think that, you know, that purpose piece is so hard for so many people. Do you have any advice for people that are struggling to find their purpose?

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Yes, I do. Um, So number one, so it's interesting, I just happen to be this Gallup StrengthsFinder coach and I was doing it for 15 years and finally decided to get certified. And I'm a really, really big believer in doing things that are your strengths. Do them your strengths, your natural strengths. And so it's not too much money for like $60. You could go out to gallup.com and do the self-study and Identify your top 34. And what you want to do— this is the key difference, just to clarify— things that bring you energy is what your strengths are, and things that don't bring your energy are your weaknesses. And I'm not talking about skills. I want to clarify that. I'm not talking about whether you can do math or reading, or, you know, you know how to, you know, put a tire in a car. I'm not talking about skills. I'm talking about your strengths, like your intuitive parts, whether you have responsibility or whether you're naturally disciplined or whether you're a relator or whatever those different parts are. And what you want to find is what those are. And then you want to ideally find a vocation that matches that, or maybe even your same job. You want to find the things that bring you joy, and you want to start doing that more because it's not going to feel like work anymore. It's going to feel the joy. And then what you want to find a way is to delegate or gamify stuff that aren't. So, Luke, that's how I think people can help find their purpose, right? Is like, you know, it's not everybody's job is to save the whales. Okay? You know, it's not everybody's job to like, you know, do this wonderful magical purpose. You know, for me, that I wouldn't, that I have no interest in that honestly. And I'm not against anybody who's trying to do it. For me, what I found is purpose is I'm I'm pretty really good at helping organizations facilitate strategic plans, helping them decide what they can do and help them draft a plan. And I keep them accountable. That's my gift. And it took me a while to get there, Luke. It wasn't like this overnight thing, but early in my career, somebody told me these 2 things. Get a degree and people think they know what you know, number one. And then 2, get a great first job. Now, this isn't necessarily rocket science information, but I found is You get a degree and people think they know what you know, you can get a job. That's number one. And then number two, you get trained really well by people who already know what they're doing. Those two things just really elevated my career really quickly. And so I got this great insight, great learning, and then I also learned a lot of things I didn't want to do along the way. Like, ah, that's awful. That's terrible. I noticed in the public accounting firm I was with, one of the Big Four firms, hardly any of the partners had their rings left on their fingers. Like, hey, I want to stay with my high school sweetheart. There's a reason why I married her. So I didn't stick around because I realized once again what was important to them wasn't important to me.

So I've got the thumbnail for this episode. Carl Cox, founder of 40 Strategy, doesn't care about the whales. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

So please know, please know. Yeah, that's great. Now, now all of a sudden, all every organization hate group I do care about the whales. I think they're beautiful. We got Puget Sound here, so we could watch them. Hey, I love the whales. Just clarify. Actually, I love porpoises even more. Just let you know, down in Florida, watching them. Love it. So, thank you, Nick. Don't say that. I don't hate whales. It's just I'm not going to spend my life helping them out.

No, I totally get it. And I think that what brings you energy is relative and it's unique. And there's something that I was coached to do a number of years ago that I recommend everybody try, which is go back a few weeks in your Google Calendar. And then change the colors of every meeting you had. So, red took energy away from you, yellow was neutral, and green brought you energy. And that gives you sort of an inventory for the week, a sample size. And if it's primarily red, you've got to change something. You've got to really start to effectively delegate everything that sucks your energy away from you, right? So, I think that's really cool. I've never actually done the CliftonStrengths test, so maybe I could take that and then share the results with everybody at Book Thinkers and with you, Carl. We can talk about it in a follow-up conversation.

I love that. Yeah, I, I love to do that. Just in case people are wanting my top 5, I'm looking at Responsibility, Arranger, Maximizer, Self-Assurance, and Individualization. Those are my top 5. Just of note, there's a top 5 test and there's a full 34. Spend the few extra bucks and do the full 34. Okay? Okay. It's worth it. It's worth it.

All right. I appreciate that. So for anybody that's interested, so you said You know, you basically built a career that allows you to exercise your 5 strengths every single day, which is around strategy and helping organizations. So could you just tell everybody a little bit more about what your firm does?

Of course. Yeah. So at 40 Strategy, we help small to medium-sized businesses and organizations help identify what they're trying to accomplish in the future. So we love to help them figure out, hey, what's, what's our long-term vision? Not just what we're trying to get done tomorrow, but what are we really trying to— how are we going to change the world? And whatever it is, and that could be our local store down the street, or it could be like literally saving the whales, Nick, right? It could be something really positive. And so, there could be that from the type of vision. And then you bring it down to more of a vivid vision. What are we going to do 3 to 5 years from now? So, we help people think through that, and then we help them design the strategies to figure out To get there. Strategy is simple. It's a really complex term, which I honestly didn't understand till I was a 30-year-old CFO, folks. Okay? So if you're like, I don't really understand strategy, don't feel bad. Very few people have a strategic planning degree. Matter of fact, they're almost impossible to find in the United States. And strategy, all it means is you start at point A and you're trying to go to point B. Strategy is how you get there. All right? That's just the basics of strategy. So we help people figure out the strategies, which is ultimately a strategic plan. So the strategies figure out how you get to your end location. We design that, we help people figure out how to measure it, and then we also help keep them accountable to get it done because most plans fail, folks, and for multiple different reasons. So the book, you know, as we're getting into here, we'll talk about, yeah, hey, there is an actual book that we care about that we'll talk about here on Book Thinkers. Lost at CEO is written in a way that it's a story, right? It's a story of who I've been in the past. It's a story of my clients. It's a story of real-life entrepreneurs, whether they're small or big business, who— this is the hard thing being a CEO. It's called Lost at CEO. Once again, Entrepreneur's Guide to Strategy. This is the challenge. You can be on top of the world and be lonely and lost. And so, this fable helps bring this to light. It helps bring to light that, yeah, you have your business, but you realize you can't talk to anybody honestly because there's— this is the hard part. You have people in your company, if you happen to have an entrepreneur thing or you're working for somebody else, there's this reality that you're going to tell them yes because you want to keep your job. But it doesn't mean you're telling them the truth. And the inverse is also true. They're not necessarily gonna tell you all their fears and concerns because they need to try to come in to be positive and to be a positive leader. And so what happens is, is there's this, um, not full transparency that takes place. And so that's what happens. We become lost CEO, CEO, you know, we come so business in our business of doing whatever we're trying to do that we don't think of being strategic and thinking on the business. And so this book is helping people to figure out, no matter, again, no matter what size it is, help you think of being on the business. So then when you're in the business, you could be more successful. And that's really what it's about. It's a great, great story of this concept. For those, it's mirrored a bit off of one of my favorite books, which is called The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt. It was written back in the '80s, I believe. And, or early '90s. It's a fantastic book and it changed my life. I actually, matter of fact, that particular book was given to me. I was in advanced cost accounting at the University of Washington. An India Boeing consultant came up to me and said, how do you like the book? I mean, how do you like, how do you like the course? I said, I love it. I think it's fantastic. He said, you need to read this book because you need to unlearn everything that you know about cost accounting. And it blew my mind and he was right. And it has, it could completely change the way I became a CFO down the future. And I still use it today. This book is the same type approach. The way people have been doing strategic planning has been wrong. 90% of strategic plans fail, meaning 2/3 of their strategic objectives fail to get done. It's horrible. Which the good news is I'll have business forever. Okay? But the bad news is, is people are really bad at it and so they lose faith and they lose trust in the system. This book is based on— I've been with 7 different companies that have at least tripled, you know, 2x to 7x in size. I am now helping teaching this knowledge and wisdom. I read about 300 books in about 5 years to help get the research behind this. So, I learned within companies for years how to do it right. I was trained by Fortune 500 executives. And then, then I went forward to teaching it and helping people out to, to do it and consult with them. And, and then the, the challenge I ran into in writing the book was I was going to write it like everyone else typically writes a book. Hey, here's the 7 ways of doing strategy better, right? And I actually already wrote it. It was called The 7 Sales of Success. I wrote the book and I put it on the shelf. I did not want to release it because something didn't feel right. So I paused and said, I want this to be something that's going to last and really make a big difference. And so completely rewrote it, ended up becoming Lost at CEO, became this fable. And it, we have gotten so many awesome reviews from it. It has been a really powerful book for those who, who have been in these roles and like, thank you so much for helping me so I can lead my company better, so I can help do strategy the right way, so I can help execute and get things done. So that's the evolvement. That's how I moved through. And it's been really powerful and exciting to get, as you know, that piece of work. It's very scary to get a book out and release it to the world. And I felt like we actually got something we could be really proud of.

I'm so curious, you said 90% of businesses don't stick to their strategy. That is Mind-blowing.

Yeah. Yeah. So the specific is 90% of organizations fail to get 2/3 of their strategic objectives done.

That's crazy.

Why? So can you give us maybe just an overview of why that happens, why they don't follow through? I'm sure I know you have a world of knowledge and you can probably go on for 2 hours about that, but maybe just like a brief overview of why that happens.

Yeah, there's multiple. One of the things I mentioned is big picture is there isn't a vision behind it. Right? And so, when you don't have a real why, you know, of why you exist and where you're going in the future, people just work hard, right? We got a lot of high achievers in the world. Matter of fact, you'll see if you do StrengthsFinder, a lot of you will have it. It's one of the most common things that we have, achievers. And the problem with achievers is we work hard in the hamster wheel and we don't, we don't move. We're not moving forward. We're not getting to our new direction. So, that's one thing. 2 is, I learned this from Amazon. So Amazon recognized that most organizations, when they're doing their strategic plan, their focus on most organizations is the outcomes, meaning I want to grow sales, I want better margins, I want better bottom line and net income, right? That's like a lagging indicator. Most strategic plans, or 80% of the strategic plan is built on lagging indicators rather than leading indicators. Okay? So it's meeting your goal. Best plans, 80% of them are leading indicators, not lagging indicators. What is the difference there? A leading indicator is these are the actions that I can control that have an impact on the outcome. So let's use a simple sales example. In sales, I'm trying to grow sales. That's a lagging indicator. I'm going to grow sales by calling on accounts. That's the leading indicator, right? The leading indicator is the actions I can control that'll have a greater likelihood of somebody buying your product or service. Those are the things you want to track. Great strategy is figuring out how do you maximize that? Right? How do you help do the things that's going to have the greatest impact in the outcome? That right there. And then, and then one, one more other big thing and another book that I recommend, it's called The Four Disciplines of Execution. Wonderful book.

So good.

Yes. Thank you. And, and, and The Four Disciplines of Execution, what is one of the things they said is they, they literally did 1,500 strategic implementations. They said you should only do 3 things. Only do 3 major strategic initiatives per period. This is the best part. They did 5,000 implementations, they revised it, and they said you should only do one thing at a time. And, and you, Nick knows, reading, you guys both know there's a ton of books that talk about this, right? One thing at a time. Matter of fact, it's even in manufacturing. They found that one-piece flow is more effective than batch manufacturing. It's like a science. It's like, it's like so true. I was with— I can't, I won't name it on the air because I do in private settings, but I was with a— okay, this is, this will be for the audience, for you all. I was with a Fortune 5— Fortune 50 company. Asked this project manager, portfolio project manager, I said, how many projects are you managing? And he said, I, I'm responsible for 600. Now, to this date, I've never met anybody that's Been responsible for 600 projects. But then I asked them the key question. I'm gonna let you both answer this because it's fun. How many, how many project managers did you think they had to manage the 600 projects? Now, what would you typically think? So Luke, how about you? How many strategic, how many project managers do you think they had to manage the 600 projects?

They had 600 projects going. I mean, yeah, that's 600 project managers, or is it one per 100?

But do you think that they can actually afford like 6? You mean think they could just have 6 project managers or?

Yeah, that's what I would say. 6, at least like one for each 100, right? Yeah.

Yeah, sure. Okay, there you go. So Nick, what about you?

Yeah, I mean, well, you kind of already told us you're supposed to focus on one. What could they afford? I mean, one for every, every 30, every 50, something like that. I don't know what the answer is.

It, they had 600. They literally had 600 project managers. So, so what, here's one of the greatest companies in the world. And once again, I can't measure it 'cause I, I can't answer it. They, and, and everyone knows their name, by the way. One of the most successful in the current, that's not Amazon, just to clarify, people wondering, 'cause that, that's not who I was referring to. But they have a one-to-one relationship with all their key projects. They focus on one thing at a time. And when they do one thing at a time, then they, by the way, they get done way more than 600 projects per year. Because as soon as that person gets done and wraps up the project, they go on another project. So, so these are these key things, Luke, right? Is, is if we focus on why we're in business, Why we're doing whatever we're trying to accomplish, whatever our purpose is. 2, we make sure that when we're trying to figure out our strategies, how we focus more on our leading indicators rather than lagging indicators. And 3, trim down to the essential few. Get rid— I was with a company the other day, Luke. We had 79 strategies written out. We decided on 15. And, and, and this, by the way, is a very successful company, but we got 'em down to 15. That is why you need somebody from the outside to help you out, because internally you're like, we could do it all. We're the whiteboard. The whiteboard. Once it happens on the whiteboard, everything happens true. It doesn't. It doesn't. So I can tell you this from experience. And by the way, there's a bunch of other strategies that you can learn about in the, you know, more about. But, but that, those 3 things alone, just, just understanding those and try to be more successful with it.

It's—

this is data, folks. This is not me making it up. These are the best companies in the world. And it's also been my own personal experiences. And I'll say this from personal experience. When I go outside of those rules, my projects get delayed or they don't get done with as high a quality.

Yeah, I love all of these takeaways. So for anybody in the audience that's listening and they're like, oh, I like Carl and I like what he does and I like what he's teaching, but I'm not sure if the book is for me. Because we're getting towards the end of the show here. Could you just one more time describe your target reader? Who is this book for and what are some of the expected outcomes that somebody can expect if they get the free copy from you, right? Or they choose to buy one?

Yeah. So this book is intended for anybody who wants to be a leader, you know, whether you're leading an organization directly or you wanting to be a leader in the future. And this is going to help you lead better. You know, often early in our career, We get rewarded based on doing tasks really well, but you don't get promoted until you learn how to manage those tasks and be more strategic. And this book is going to help be that guide for you to lead better, and it's going to help get you promoted. It's going to help you be more successful, whether you're an intrapreneur or an entrepreneur. And this also works in not-for-profit organizations. This is not Just made-for-profit organizations, even though that's who we primarily work with. This can help out anybody who wants to be a leader.

I'll ask one final question. You already mentioned a couple of book titles, but outside of your book, what book have you gifted the most over the last couple of years to other people? This is a new question that I've just started asking Carl. So, sorry I didn't get you.

No, no, it's what I asked too. So it's a great question. I remember asking you it as well. You know, I, we did mention it earlier. I'm not going to, I'll, the Four Disciplines of Execution I think is a must-read for anybody who's running things. But I will give you back one of my old classics, which is Good to Great. And I know it gets mentioned so often, and the reason why I bring it up is because it's data-driven. information. It was a 10-year study. It was a 10-year study on why I believe it was 11, top 11 companies in the world during the study period. And it helps give the reasons what helped make them successful. And it's brilliant. It is one of the, well, truly, I ingest, use the term as it's the Bible of business, right? Like if you haven't read Good to Great, you haven't understood what made the greatest companies work during that certain period of time. So yeah, I'm a major fan of that. Jim Collins, he is an extraordinary human being. He's based out of Colorado, University of Colorado in Boulder. That's my recommendation if they haven't read that yet.

Those are amazing books, classics, and I agree. I love those books. Thank you so much. All right, well, before I ask my last question, where can people go to find out more about you, get your book, learn all the stuff that they need to about you?

So once again, number one, if you want to copy the book, carljaycox@40strategy.com. So that's number one. Number 2, you could just go to our website at 40strategy.com, 40strategy.com. We never asked why we're 40 Strategy, because most organizations only spend 2% of their time on strategy, which is equivalent to 40 hours per year. So the concept is help us out, we help you out with that 40 hours so you could be more successful. That's it. It doesn't take a million hours, just 40. On top of that, we have MeasureTest Podcast, which you could find on all major podcast platforms. And then finally, of course, the book. If you don't want to get it for free and you're like, 'cause I don't want to give my email and get our great Saturday Strategy for Saturday blog that we come up with every Saturday, the other ways you could do is you could end up going onto amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, or on Audible as well.

All right. And this is my final question. I'm actually trying a new one today. I love these hypothetical type of questions, so it's going to be really exciting to kind of get your answer. I've been asking this one to some of my friends and it's just been, it's been cool to get the different perspectives. So this is what it is. You're magically 18 today. You're starting off with all the knowledge you've accumulated, but none of the money or the connections. What are the 3 to 5 things you would do to get to the level of success you're at now?

So it's interesting. I did start out with nothing, no contacts at 18. So, so I, I, but what I would've done to accelerate is, is one is I, I would've taken more risk.

Hmm.

So, you know, I started out understandably taking less risk because I had a family, you know, I got married young and I wanted to make sure I provided. I, I didn't want to mess around without putting food on the table, right? And, and paying for rent. So I, I, once again, I took care of that as soon as I can so I could sleep at night. So, but I would actually take more risk. That'd be number one. Number 2, I would try new things more often. Okay. 3, I would try to become an expert at something.

When you say try new things, like what?

Maybe go paragliding? Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Meaning it's some skill or concept or traveling to a new location. Or, you know, it doesn't have to be something you're crazy uncomfortable with. Like, it doesn't have to be something like you're— I'm not asking somebody all of a sudden if they've never figure skated, like, to try to be in the Olympics in figure skating. But like, maybe you're like, hey, I'm going to try to ski, you know, because I've never skied in my life. Or I'm going to go travel to Italy because I've never been to Italy beforehand. Or perhaps even going across town because it's so funny how we get stuck in our 5-mile radius or 10-mile radius. And I'm actually going to go 45 minutes away, which seems like eternity for others to like see what it looks like on the other side of the tracks. I think those different, so that's helped. I think trying new experience is so important, so important for our brain. I will say then kind of go towards it is go global, go outside of our country and see different views. I was so, I didn't start traveling internationally until I was in my 30s. And you have, we are so myopic here in the United States. And I know you have people from around the world listening, Nick and Luke, but we just think that one way, even if we're Democrat or Republican or independent, we think still American. Okay. And man, it's so amazing when you start going around the world and you start thinking globally like different people, it will blow your mind.

That's great. I love that, you know, the, the new experience things is so important. But yeah, no, that's exactly what I, what I wanted. So that's perfect. I appreciate it. Well, thank you so much for your time today. This has been amazing. It's been so great learning from you. I appreciate you very much. So yeah, thank you so much for coming on.

Yeah. No, Luke and Nick, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having the opportunity to be on your podcast. And Nick, once again, thank you so much for wearing the swag of the Measure Success Podcast. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. And then once again, I, I hope people get an opportunity to pick up the book and congratulations again, once again, Nick, to you and your amazing book that you've just launched. It's incredible. There it is. Yeah, I got both up there together. Love it.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website. www.bookthinkers.com or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.