168. Brett Snodgrass | The Secret War Within

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better.

In today's episode, we had the pleasure to interview Brett Snodgrass, author of The Secret War Within. Brett is a follower of Christ, husband and father, entrepreneur, and the founder of Iron Deep and Simple Wholesaling. Brett had huge successes but was never able to fill his longing for more. After years of trying, he found God and realized that he was the missing piece. He is now thriving and on a mission to help men awaken, to go beyond success to fill their significant purpose in Christ. In this episode, you'll learn about how being honest with yourself and others leads to healing, the importance of overcoming your struggles, why trusting in God is the most important piece of success, and why outward success won't lead you to inward success. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Brett Snodgrass.

Brett, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. We are excited to learn more about you and your book, The Secret War Within. I'd love to start with going back to you being 26 years old. You hit this rock bottom point in your life, getting sued by Paramount Pictures, moving back in with your parents, and dealing with a pregnancy out of wedlock. Like, So much. Can you share a little bit about how you got to this point at 26 years old and what eventually pulled you out?

Yeah, man, let's just dig right in. So a famous quote, probably from Dumb and Dumber, that sticks out to me is like, wow, you are one pathetic loser. That's pretty much where I was thinking at 26. So yeah, I was a substitute schoolteacher, got served by a private investigator because I was trying to start a business by selling DVDs. People don't really buy DVDs today, But that was a business back in the day. I was buying them, sold them on eBay, and lo and behold, they were pirated DVDs that I bought and got them shipped from Hong Kong. And then a private investigator shows up and Paramount Pictures is suing me. So I'm— the light bulb's going off and you see, oh, I'm going to prison. I'm going to owe $250,000 when I only make $12,000 a year and my life is completely over. And I have a baby along the way, moving back home with my parents. And that was just rock bottom, honestly, for me, kind of started just this journey of, you know, what is this all about? What, what am I going to do next? What's the whole meaning of, of all of this and how can I get started? But as many entrepreneurs have said, rock bottom is typically their starting place. And that was it for me. So I said, man, I got to do something different with my life. And that just kind of got me going into entrepreneurship. And I started reading real estate books and I started visiting other real estate investors, and that got me onto this real estate entrepreneurial journey. And here we are, fast forward 17 years later, and we've done, you know, in the real estate world, 3,500 homes. I've done some cool stuff. We wrote the book The Secret War Within. And but that was really the start. I think, you know, the rock bottom thinking you are one pathetic loser was the rocket ship to say, I don't want my life to be like this. any longer, right?

So yeah, I love that answer. Such a— it's such a great story. And so many people at 26 years old feel like, you know, they need to have everything figured out. And it's, it's so cool seeing somebody like you. It's like, hey, my success didn't come until a little bit later in life. It wasn't at that 26 years old. I'm curious, along the way, you know, you talk a lot about your faith and your Christianity. Like, where did, where did God fit into this picture at, at the time in your life at 26 years old versus maybe now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. God did not fit into my picture at all at 26 years old. Uh, so my 20s were the horrendous typical womanizer, uh, partying, drinking up to 3 AM in the morning. And that ended up with some of the consequences that I'm having a baby out of wedlock, uh, broke, and, and just some of the consequences that came with that. Uh, even at 26, when I was at rock bottom, I still didn't come to faith. I still didn't give my life to God. Um, that came about 4 or 5 years later. It started my business journey, but then I was all about, like most business owners, entrepreneurs, I just wanted to make a lot of money. I wanted to be rich. I wanted to be a millionaire by the time I'm 30 years old. I was all about money and the stuff, and I had the dream chart, the visionary chart, and it was all money. It was the private jet, it was the Ferrari, it was, you know, the house with the vacation homes in the mountains, and it was Just all that stuff. And I just envisioned all of that. Uh, and then just a few short years later, I had gotten some of those things. I had been somewhat successful. I think, you know, in 2008 we did about 150 homes. I went from literally, as I mentioned, from my store making $12,000 a year to $80,000 to $300,000 plus to over half a million. And it got, it went really fast in just a few years. And I had gotten a really nice home. I had bought a really nice car. And me and my daughter's mother— my daughter was about 2 or 3 years old at that time. I was still living this crazy party life and crap really hit the fan. She leaves. And I remember sitting in my large home with my 2-year-old daughter at that time, and I was like, man, this— there's got to be more than this. So again, 26, I'm hitting rock bottom. Now I'm 30, hitting even more rock bottom. And I had all this stuff and some of this success and some of these achievements. And I said, there's got to be more than this. And that really started me on this journey of What is it, right? What is the meaning of all of this? What's the meaning of life? What's the purpose of life? And it took me through this wrestling match with about 6 months later of finding God, finding Christ. He spoke to me in a very real way in my bedroom. It was 2010, or out— it was September 15th, 2010, was when I gave my life to Christ. And that really started me on my faith journey. I was 30 at that time. I didn't leave the business. I didn't leave the entrepreneurship, but it left But my perspective on everything shifted, um, uh, from that point. So that was 14 years ago. Uh, so again, a lot of rock bottom types of stories in this, and, uh, and here we are 14 years later.

So, Brett, I'd like to read everybody that's listening and watching a quote from page 6 of your book. It says, the thought of spending another Friday night alone in the sterile office filled him with a deep sense of sadness. He had worked hard to get where he was, but at what cost? He had no friends, a distant family, and no one to share his success with. And so it sounds like at this moment that you gave your life to Christ, you had started to develop all of this money and this success, but you realized you needed a shift in perspective. So kind of moving forward in your life, what role has Christianity played and how does it weigh against your entrepreneurship and desire to continue to earn and things like that?

Yeah.

Yeah. Now that's a great question. I think the book obviously relates to, to a lot of men. I think a lot of men can relate to some of the, the loneliness, right? Of, you know, you're chasing after these things you want to achieve. You want to achieve success. You desire it so much. Your flesh wants to be known and all of these different things. And, uh, but you sacrifice so much along the way. I've seen it happen in my own life. I've seen it happen to other men's life. That's one of the reasons why I wrote the particular book. Um, 'cause we sacrifice. All these things, our health, right? We sacrifice our relationships. We sacrifice our family. I was with one guy that said this. He had just gone through a divorce, and he said there's no amount of public success that will ever replace private failure. You know, think about that a little bit. We're we're chasing after public success, and and that's where I was at, right? And I my flesh still battles with that even even till today. And I have to go back, and it's a daily decision to. to choose, what am I living for? What is the purpose? What is my calling in life? Uh, and it just comes back to the point where it has to be more than this material possession, has to be more than this recognition. It has to be more than me getting on podcasts or writing the book and to be known. It has to be for me, for a higher purpose, for a higher calling. Like, number one, it's for his glory, right? That's what I say. Um, and what does he want to do with my life that's going to impact the kingdom for his purposes. Uh, so it's just different perspective. Most people say, I want to, I want my name to live on. I want me to be recognized and I want to do this for my own glory. And I say, well, you know, for me, it's just like, it has to be bigger than that. It has, there has to be a bigger story to that. That's where Christianity comes in. So my business ties into that. It's not all about bread. It's like, how can I impact the kingdom with the resources and money that he's given me? Uh, everything that I do.

Yeah.

It's either, you know, I don't do it perfectly by any means. I humbly say this, but it has to be going back to what's his purposes for him or for other people and impacting other people's lives.

I'm curious, how did you find Christianity over some other maybe religion or spiritual modality, like, for lack of a better term?

Yeah, no, I mean, that's, that's a, that's a great question. You know, my journey, uh, was just, you know, searching for just that higher, higher creator, that designer. Um, you know, for me, I think it just goes back to, uh, how is all this really just happened? Number one, like some people might not believe in God. And so for me, it's like, number one, there has to be a designer. There has to be a creator. How can I think like this? How can I breathe like this? How can I make a baby like this? How can the heart beat like this? Like, it just has to be something there. How can something alive come, right? You know, my— and I don't think that something out of nothing can't produce something alive, right? So I don't believe in all the, the Big Bang stuff. So number one, I believe in— but believe in God. And, uh, and when I go through, um, uh, you know, the, the, the meaning of just Christianity, uh, you know, going through the Bible, going through, uh, mentors, going through Um, at the end of the day, it's just the puzzle. The puzzle just comes together. Uh, it's just, it makes sense to me, um, uh, through the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Um, you know, and, and I just believe, you know, when I sought him, he says, you know, when you seek me, you will find me. And that's how I came. The pieces were just kind of came together through it all. So yeah, I don't know if that quite answers your question, but it all comes from the Father and the Creator. Um, and, and the designer at first. So for sure.

Yeah, no, that's beautiful. It's a beautiful answer for sure. Now you, you talk to a lot of guys, you have masterminds and groups, and, um, you're doing a lot with a lot of people who are dealing with, you know, secret things, secret problems that they have. And we can call them sins or challenges or struggles. Like, what is the— what's one thing that you feel like most men struggle with that they don't talk about? Hello, Book Thinkers family. We are on a mission to change people's lives for the better, and we believe that the right book at the right time can change your life. And the only way we can impact more lives is with your help. If a book has changed your life for the better, I wanted to ask you a quick favor. Could you please take a few seconds and leave a review of our show? Because if you're like us, you want to change not only your life, but others' lives as well. And by you leaving a review of our show, it spreads the word about all of these life-changing books. And does just that. We greatly appreciate your help. By reaching more people, you help us change more lives. Thank you so much for your time. And now back to the show. Hmm.

Yeah, that's a good question. Um, you know, one of our, one of our true core values, number one, you talk about the secrets, is just to be radically honest, trying to be radically honest with ourselves, trying to be radically honest with God, trying to be radically honest with each other. I think that men, and then we don't know it all the time, but sometimes we, we lie to ourselves, we lie to others, we hide things. Uh, so number one, uh, at our organization Iron Deep, it's like, you know, we want to be known and we want, uh, to know the other brothers in the group. Um, so it starts with that, just being honest, radically honest, uh, with, with God and each other. I think the things that, that men really struggle with, that the book really points out, uh, Is number one, um, you know, Nolan Banks, he's struggling with lust. Obviously, that, that's a huge one that men, they don't really talk about. Some of the, the darkest moments of men's lives are just to struggle with lust. Uh, I've seen so many lives destroyed from that, so many relationships and marriages destroyed, uh, from that. Um, so they have this strong desire and they just misplace it. Um, They just misplace it. Um, I think other things that men, uh, really struggle with is their identities. Uh, we talk a lot about in our organization is what, what is your identity wrapped into? That if everything was stripped away from you, what would your identity be? Um, and most of our identities are wrapped into our careers. It's wrapped into our success. It's wrapped into our money. I mean, that's, that's our status. We wrap everything into that.

Yeah.

particular identity. And when we do something else, when we sell the business, when we're not doing that anymore, we wander. Like, you, you know, you see men that when they're not known for this particular career anymore, they, they get depressed, right? Um, so I think that's the struggle that men, that men struggle with. Obviously, men struggle with failure. I know that that's something that drives even me. It's like, it's not really I want to have this ultimate success, but I desperately don't want to fail. And that's just, that's a huge driver for men. Um, so those are some of the different things, uh, that I've seen, uh, more men struggle with for sure.

One of the solutions that you talk about in your book, it's a theme that, that I remember when I think about your book, is the subject of tranquility, stillness, slowing things down, being in a reflective place. So can you talk a little bit about that? I mean, is that a subject that you talk about during your men's retreats? And what role has stillness in your life? Maybe mention an actionable habit or something that people could implement.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, one of the, the, the biblical Bible verses that, that I— if I had any tattoo on my arm, it would say, you know, be still and know that I'm God. Um, because especially in our culture, and there's, there's countless books even written about it— I mean, you know, I don't think they would write about these books back in the day in the history, but now we're We're constantly writing books about we're so busy. How do you slow down? How do you stop? How do you reflect on, you know, on your own lives? And obviously this is a huge piece of Iron Deep, just to reflect. I think Socrates said that— I'm going to butcher this, but he says a life, something about like a life not reflected on is not worth lived, right? So It basically just says, you know, how can we be more reflective? How can we slow down? How can we stop? Uh, what does that look like in your own life? Uh, for me, it starts in the morning. You know, how can I be still? You know, number one, be grateful for what I have. How do I thank him and praise him for what I have? And, you know, what do I want this day to look like? You know, what do I, you know, how, how do I want my future to look like? What is, what do I want for, for him in my life? So. It's a huge piece. I think we don't do it enough. Uh, it's a huge practice. Um, so, you know, at our events, yeah, there's, there's plenty of times of number one reflecting in, in small groups, but there's also being alone. I mean, when's the last time you were alone and, and thinking about and writing and journaling about your thoughts about how are you truly? And, you know, what do you want to say? Um, So I think it's just a, it's a huge practice that I've practiced in my own life. I know my life is going so much better when I am still, when I'm reflective, when I'm going slow. Um, and, uh, I know I've been reading through Proverbs right now and it talks about, um, wisdom and discipline usually go together. And how do you live that prudent life? And I was like, what does that mean? Prudent life. Prudent life is like, how do you carefully choose your steps? Like instead of being impulsive. How do we wisely choose our steps with discipline?

So yeah, I think you should get that tattoo. I have a tattoo on my left wrist that says ataraxia, which is an ancient Greek word that roughly translates to stillness. And anytime I'm feeling emotionally reactive, I can look down at the tattoo and it reminds me to slow down and operate from a place of logic. And so I think that Tattoos can be such a great reminder and reinforce the things that we're working on as men and women and anybody. Um, my next question, uh, just a quick one. Can you tell us about the lion and the lamb or the sheep behind you and what the artwork means to you?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously to me it's, it's a biblical, uh, reference that, uh, the lion, right? I mean, God calls us to be a warrior, uh, calls men to be a leader, to lead our families, our businesses, and lead our own lives. Um, but then the lamb obviously is biblical reference, uh, for Christ. Um, and it's, it's just also, um, that the follow, right? I mean, um, sheep follow. Uh, Christ always talks about his sheep, right? They hear my voice, the shepherd. Um, you know, so what voice are you listening to? And we're looking for the shepherd's voice. Uh, and that's, that's what, uh, that's what it means. So.

I love that. Now, I'm, I'm so curious about why you decided to write an allegory. Um, it's really interesting, like, going through your book, it kind of reminded me a little bit of Pilgrim's Progress. And I don't know if you know that book or if it, uh, is familiar to you, but it's just the, the themes of it and like overcoming, letting go of things, like, it reminded me that. So why did you decide to write an allegory instead of just writing it like 7 steps for this or 7, you know, Like people usually do.

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Yeah, uh, I think, I think probably you just said it because that's what people usually do. I mean, men in my space typically would write a nonfiction-style book, whether it was a business book, or most Christian types of books are nonfiction-style books. Uh, so I think for me, I wanted to write a book maybe was a little bit more unique to the space, uh, something that, uh, that maybe could read more like a movie, that you could really draw men in, that they could see behind the curtain from what Nolan, the main character, was really struggling with, some of his secrets. And I think in a nonfiction way, like I could have said, yeah, I struggle with this or I struggle with that, you know, because a lot of this has related to my own life. But I think it's different when you can actually see someone really struggling with it and pull back the curtain and see inside of his office and see him, you know, pounding his fist and you see his emotions that he's looking out the window that You know, right after he was talking and this, this kid was like, you know, saying, oh my gosh, you're so successful, you're so amazing. And then everything leaves and he's— you can see his emotions inside. And I think sometimes that's harder to portray maybe in a nonfiction way. So I think, you know, something unique, something that can play like that movie, to pull back the curtain, you can see Nolan. And, and I just wanted to draw into something a little bit more educational and entertaining. And I think I wanted to play with it a little more. I wanted maybe Nolan to not exactly be myself. I wanted to, to, you know, do things maybe I would have done, but also do things that I wouldn't have done. And, and I could, you know, play with that a little bit more with the character. And I don't know, for me, it was, it was really fun.

I love it. And I think with those types of books, it's a lot easier to remember anyway, because I agree with that. I kind of had the movie playing in my head and I was like, oh man, I could see Angel Studios picking this up and making it a movie, which would be cool.

But anyway, Um, so let's come up.

Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. I have it in there.

You really need for the full circle is to get Paramount involved.

There you go. There it is. There it is. That's awesome. That'd be great.

Um, why do you think money isn't, doesn't fulfill us like we think it's going to?

I mean, everyone really knows, uh, that, that it won't really fulfill us. And I don't think, you know, we're even chasing after money. I mean, we're typically chasing after what it's going to do for us. Uh, we're typically chasing, it's not just the money. I want this big bank account. It's more of like, you know, I want this freedom. I want to, be able to do what I want when I want, this financial freedom. And, uh, but I mean, so much of life, man, is just this internal, um, this internal thing. I mean, you know, even in your book, Nick, I mean, you talk about just, just the internal. I mean, to be fulfilled, to be content, to have joy, happiness, uh, it's an internal thing. Uh, there's, there's plenty of rich Miserable people out there, and there's plenty of rich, very generous, happy people out there. And then there's people with no money that have so much fulfillment and contentness and joy, and then there's poor, miserable people. Um, so I think it's just because it's an external thing, uh, and life is so much on the internal. Um, you know, the relationship with, with Christ, you can see that, but a lot of it is, you know, just your heart. I mean, he talks— the Bible talks all about your heart. It's about your heart. Everything flows from your heart. And so much we, we are chasing after the external. We're chasing after the success, the recognition, the popularity, what other people think about us, the money. And all that is external. And I think it— the book a lot is just about your heart. It's about your internal, that if you can focus in on that, that's where true joy, where true fulfillment comes in. And so yeah, I think the answer is it's about your heart and it's just because it's an external force that just won't, won't do it for you.

Well, as you know, I agree with that message. I'm always optimizing for enjoying the passage of time, and that's an internal thing, definitely not an external thing. So shifting gears a little bit. For somebody that's in the audience today and they're thinking, okay, this book sounds like it could be a good fit. Brett sounds like a pretty enlightened individual, but they're not sure. They're on the fence. Could you just give sort of who is the target reader for this book from your perspective and maybe one or two more lessons that they might learn if they decide to pick up a copy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one, this book was really— it started off with the title, The Secret War Within a Driven Man. Um, so I think that title, that was a little bit too long, so we shortened it down to The Secret War Within. But, but really, uh, it was written for, uh, driven individuals, Type A individuals, men, uh, that are hard-charged and that do want to accomplish, that do want to succeed. Because I still want to succeed. Like, I'm not saying don't do anything and don't go after success, don't go after achievement, but it's really, you know, what's the purpose for it and what are you going to do with it? I think that's the message that I think I really want to get across, that even on our website, irondeep.com, it says, you know, uh, we, we go out, we chase after significance more than success, even though we love success. Like, I love success. I love achieving. I love having this, being on this podcast. I really enjoy it. Um, but at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's what's significant about it. I think the message that I really want to, to play in is go after success if, if God has designed you to to chase, to achieve, to gifted you with some talent, do it and go after it. But it's not about the success, it's about what, what the platform that's going to give you, what are you going to do with it at the end of the day? That's what this book was about. I mean, I think, you know, I've had some level of success so I could write a book like this, um, but it's really, it's, it's the platform that's given me, and it's really just about I'm trying to impact men's lives driven men's lives, uh, to think deeper. And Iron Deep is really that, that depth thinking. We're very shallow individuals. So I think that if you want to go beyond and you want to have a think deeper and the meaning of life and the significance of life, uh, this is just a great read. This is just a great read for you. That's the lessons I think that you'll learn. And, uh, and you'll see this man chasing after Money, power, recognition. And he, in his struggle, you'll see this, this battle that he can't let it go, that he has to control it. He wants it so bad. And that's just the desires of, of a lot of our hearts. And that's where it talks about in the Bible, the flesh and the spirit, like it's just always battling each other. And, um, and which one are you gonna— which path are you gonna take? That the 2 paths diverge. Which one are you gonna eventually choose? And that's really what the book is about. So I'll leave it at that.

What's the difference between what success looks like to you today versus maybe the 26 or 30-year-old you?

Yeah, I think again, it just goes back to, uh, just, just impacting, impacting for the kingdom and impacting people's lives. Uh, and there was a time where even I struggled with, you know, how much is enough? How much money is enough? I have enough money. I've made enough money. So now let's just sit back. Let's not make any more. I don't, I don't need any more. But that even perspective has changed because now if I can become more successful, if God has given me the resources and the talents to make more money, it's not even about me. Like, I don't— I just— it's all his anyways. It's all for the kingdom. So like, I guess my, my thing is the perspective has shifted where like, it's not about Brett. My lifestyle is not going to change that much. Um, if I make more money, if I have more resources, it's just all going to go back to the kingdom. How many more lives can we impact? impact for that, and let's just go. So let's, let's make it all. Let's make a lot of it if we can. And then, uh, so it's just, it's just more spreading of the gospel at that point. So that's, that's the difference in perspective. My 26-year-old would be like, I'm gonna be driving my Ferrari on the coast, which there's nothing wrong with any of that, but really it's just for Brett's ego at the end of the day, and that's it.

Yeah, what's that quote like? If money hasn't made you happy, you haven't given enough away, or something like that, right? Kind of wrapping up here in the next 5 or so minutes. As you know, Brett, and this is how we got connected, Book Thinkers behind the podcast, we operate a book marketing agency. And so I'm always curious when somebody puts out a book, what recommendations they'd have for either aspiring authors or existing authors in the audience around book marketing. So were there certain things that you and your team were able to execute against? that helped. And I'd love to hear if you have any kind of like crazy out-of-left-field things that worked for you.

As far as the marketing of the book or the actual like creation of— A little bit of both. Yeah, a little bit.

Yeah.

Number one, I would just encourage you, I mean, if you have something on your heart and it's something that you want to do, uh, I just encourage you to take the risk. I mean, there's so many unwritten— there's probably written books that just never have been put out. There's books in every one of your, your heads And just, just take the risk. Uh, I'm so glad that I did have something that I can pass on, have something that people can read some of, you know, what's on my heart, what's on my soul. And that's just amazing. Um, I would just encourage you, number one, to, uh, I always say sit at the feet of someone who's already done it with whatever I do. If I wanna play the guitar, I gotta sit at the feet of someone who's, who knows how to play the guitar. If I wanna start a business, I sit at the feet of someone who started a business. When I write a book, sit at the feet of someone who's written a book. That's what I did. I hired a mentor, hired a coach. Uh, just to kind of walk me through it and to keep me accountable. Um, someone to walk with me, um, on the, the publishing of it, the editing of it. I've never done anything like this before, so it was fun. It was new. It was one, probably one of the hardest things that I've done as far as creating the book. Uh, but then you got to get it out there, right? And I don't have probably any, any tips or tricks, but again, it's really just, uh, um, just getting to know people. Your net worth is your network. I met you guys. That's awesome. Um, My writing coach, who is Ashley Mansour, she she's connected me to some other people. I think she even connected us, and getting on other podcasts. So I've hired you know someone that connects me on different podcasts. Even even book thinkers has helped me with that a little bit. You know I had a book launch party, so I'm in this for the long haul. I think one of the mistakes that I've heard is that people they shoot out, they do this book launch party, they get going for about a month, and then it just falls off. But mine is more like it's just spread. That out. Uh, this is an introduction to Iron Deep, our organization. That's what I use it for. It's just, it's a really amazing book, but it's also just an introduction to our organization as well. But I'm in it for the long haul, so I'm doing it spread out. I'm getting on podcasts here and there. I'm doing some talks here and there. I'm talking about it here and there. And, um, so I would just say, yeah, have the long-term vision with it, right? So maybe in 10 years I'm still getting on podcasts. I'm still talking about it, right? Uh, and not just be that rocket and then just kind of leave it behind. But, but podcasts have been help networking connections. Everybody I've talked to— Nick, you've connected me with amazing people. Um, and then they connect me to amazing people, and it's just this web of, of connections. Um, another thing is, I think it's things that I've read, is it's hard to sell, uh, and to be, you know, make a bunch of money at the book. It's really the You, you write the book, but it brings so much credibility to what you're doing. And I think that's just, that's just what it does. So I would just kind of keep that in mind that if you think you're going to make a bunch of money at it, you can. But it's really the, the other things that bring in the income and the revenue. So those are a couple of thoughts that I kind of had.

Oh yeah, I love all of those thoughts. Yeah, they're the, they're great business cards, right? Because people don't throw them away. And when they get around to reading them and then they get involved in everything else you're doing, that always helps. Thank you for answering that question. All right, here's my last question and then Luke might have a few more. I'm not sure. Which book have you gifted the most over the last, let's say, 5 years? What book comes to mind outside of yours? Is there a standard go-to, hey, you should read this for somebody in your life?

Yeah, yeah. The book that I've given out, it's not a well-known book, honestly, but it's a book called The True Measure of a Man. Um, it's by an author from Alabama. Uh, his name is Richard E. Simmons III, and he's written several books. That's the book that really resonates with me. I picked that up about 5 years ago, uh, at a, uh, couples retreat. Uh, I don't know why I picked it up there, but a very short book, about 130 pages long. Um, but this is one of the books that really resonated with me that had a lot of the topics, honestly, that I talk about in here. I wrote this in a different type of way. It's a nonfiction style of book, but The true measure of a man is the one I've gifted the most. So.

All right. Well, I have, I have just 2 more questions. One I kind of want to ask selfishly, which is you have 2 boys, right?

I do.

And then 2 girls. So 4 altogether, 4 kids.

Yep.

That's amazing. I have a boy and 2 girls. I'm curious, what are like 1 to 3 lessons that, or things that you're teaching your boys as they're growing up in a world where they have like Like, I mean, they have access to pornography and all these other things like at the tips of their fingers. So what are 1 to 3 things that you're teaching them kind of on a daily basis as they grow up in this world?

Hmm.

No, that's good. Yeah, I try to teach my kids a lot of different things. One of the things is we focus so much on— as business owners, we focus on like the strategic planning of our businesses, but a lot of times we don't focus on strategic planning for our families. So at the Snodgrass family, I don't do this the best, but we have kind of like that family weekly meetings. We have, we talk about these things like who are the Snodgrasses? So I try to come up with these things. Um, the Snodgrasses, one of the things that I say all the time to the family is the Snodgrasses are always better together. So when they're fighting, when they're not sharing, for my little kids, when they're bickering at each other, the Snodgrass are always better together. So how are we going to do this together? Or it could be our Western culture is so individualized that this kid does this better, um, you know, sports, whatever. I'm always trying to think about how can we do things together, because those things, again, we're always divided. We never have dinner together, you know, not— we, we do, but most families, they don't have dinner together. They're never together. They're split and they're not unified. So just coming up with little things like that. The Snodgrass are always better together. That's just one thing we talk about. Another thing is we don't— people don't ever celebrate except maybe on special occasions. So another thing that goes with that is the Snodgrass always celebrate each other. So like when Ethan gets a good grade on his report card, typically the thing is, man, I didn't get a good grade. Now the Snodgrass, we always celebrate you For that. We celebrate each other. So these are some of the things, um, that we talk about. Um, we're— we, we, the Snodgrasses, are obsessed with hospitality. So like, we're always trying to serve and to be hospitable, have people over to our home. We're obsessed with hospitality. These are some of the things that we talk about. Um, uh, humility is huge. Again, putting others first. That's one thing I'm always trying to teach. And I've been studying a lot just on wisdom. And wisdom is a lot different than knowledge. Um, and I was listening to a podcast the other day. Again, when you're studying wisdom, for example, if I were to take my own life and I'm married, uh, happily married, if I were to go have dinner with another woman, Would there be anything wrong with that? Maybe not. Is it wise? Probably not. So I try to say, what's the difference between wisdom and, you know, just is it right or wrong? Right. So those are a few things I just try to teach the kids as they grow up.

Well, that's very wise. Oh no, I really do. I do. I do love that. And, um, we have several similar mantras in my family as well. So 2 more things. One, where can people go to find out more about you, get your book, and dive a little bit deeper into all the topics that we talked about today?

Yeah, no, thank you guys so much. Luke, Nick, I really appreciate being on the show. You know, the best place is you can email me, Brett, brett@irondeep.com. That's irondeep.com. Our website's irondeep.com, obviously. And we're doing some events this year. Uh, you can also find, we have a book page on, on our website, irondeep.com. And, uh, it's also on Amazon as well. Um, but, uh, I would just check out, check out the website, email if you have any questions. I'd love to, to, if you're really interested in digging in deeper, get the book. We have some other resources on the website. Uh, we do some events as well. If you want to, you know, come to that, love to see you there. So.

Yeah, I love that. All right. Well, thank you. And we'll also link all that in the show notes. All right. So the final question is this. You pass away and all the courses, the books, the retreats, everything, all the information goes away, but you can leave the world with a single piece of advice. What would it be?

I think it would go— I think it'd just go back to the tattoo and my, you know, the favorite verse is, be still and know that I'm God. I would just leave that. Amen.

So I love it. Perfect, perfect way to end the podcast. So whoever's listening to this, be still. This is your, this is your, this is your message to do that. All right. Well, thank you so much, Brett, for your time. This has been amazing. We've learned so much. Can't wait to continue talking to you and working with you.

Thanks, Nick. Thanks, Luke. Appreciate you guys.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, Please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.