171. Cindy Carrillo | Find Your Nxt

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we're talking about In this episode, we have the pleasure to interview Sydney Carrillo, author of Find Your Next. Sydney is a former CEO, a founder, entrepreneur, author, ranch owner and operator, business and leadership coach, and is now leading the Find Your Next immersion experience at her ranch in Colorado. In this episode, you'll learn about how to embrace change and be open to new adventures in all phases of life, about how to design a life that aligns with your values and allows for personal growth and exploration, about how and why you need to maintain a hunger and purpose by continuously seeking new opportunities and challenges, and the importance of separating personal desires from societal expectations and focus on what truly brings you fulfillment. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Sydney Carrillo. Sydney, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. We are excited to get to know more about you and discuss your new book, Finding Your Next. Before we jump into that, let's rewind a bit. At 53 years old, you sold your business and instead of opting for retirement, You took a unique path and decided to purchase a ranch. So what made you choose to take on such a grand adventure when most people would have just like taken a step back and been like, yeah, I just want to retire now?

It's a great question. And, and, and I think the answer is that I don't think at 53, um, I was done trying to figure new things out and stepping into anything that was new and next. I mean, I had run a company, built a company, sold a company. It wasn't my first, and— but I did know that I didn't want to start another company. But I also love business, and I love figuring things out and building and making shit up. And what better way than to buy 35 acres of basically blank land? And having to figure out what to do with it.

Now, I love reading through your book. You have such like this— I would call you a visionary. I don't know if you consider yourself a visionary, but you definitely seem that way to me. And then from looking at all your social media posts and everything, like you just come across as a person with a very big vision for your life. So when you were looking for this perfect idyllic land, like what was on your bucket list? Like what was your checklist? Like how did you pick the spot that you're in?

It, you know, I, I did come up with a list, and I think that was really, really important. And I think we all do. We need to come up with sort of the criteria before we make decisions. And it's something that I talk about in the book, is that we had to figure out what was really important to us about this next phase of life. And what we realized was that we were moving Looking at land, a good six-hour drive away from our family and friends. And if we were going to do this, this was going to have to be a place where if you build it, they will come because I wanted them to come. So we needed to find a piece of property that one had a magnificent magnificent view because I mean why bother otherwise? So a view was really important to me. And when you're in Colorado and you're looking at land, you have to make a decision whether or not you want to sort of be in the mountains looking. Out and, you know, on a vista, or are you looking up at a mountain view? And I've always loved looking at mountain views, and that became really important to me. But we also needed to find a land that we could build a sustainable lifestyle. So needed something that was going to be able to sort of expand and contract to whether or not it was just my partner Matthew and I, or we were going to have a bunch of people here. So we knew we needed a piece of land that we could grow into and that could really sustain a lifestyle that as we grew and aged and explored and adventured could really grow with us. And this property, this property really did that for us.

There's a funny meme that I'll get every once in a while on social media Because I'm in the Massachusetts area, and when you walk out of a Walmart or a Target, there's no view. But in somewhere like Colorado, you walk out of a Walmart or a Target and you look at those mountains and you're just blown away. It's like you're walking out into a piece of art. So here's my question: why do you think so many successful executive types end up I don't know if reverting back to the simple things is the right way to phrase it, but it feels like the next is, hey, I want to be away from all the busyness and the burnout, and I want to get back to the simpler things in life. Why do you think that is?

That's a really interesting point. And maybe it's because when you run companies, you're really, really responsible for more than just what the business does. You're responsible for so many lives. You're responsible for all the stakeholders. Stakeholders that are associated with the business, and for me, running a business was we had a service business first of all. So it was really about taking care of our constituents, where our clients, employees, because we sold to businesses. But I took I took the lives of my employees very seriously. Everybody who worked for us was a big lift for me and a big responsibility, and I did it for well. Over 20 years. And there's so many moving parts, there's so many complexities, there's so many levels to being in sort of corporate America and running that kind of business that I think, I think there is something to getting out on the other side and then having the resources to be able to make some different choices. And I know for me, um, This is simple, this life that I've created for myself, but I wouldn't say it's easier. It's just really different. I mean, most people who go into farming and ranching and doing the kinds of things that we do here, raising cows and goats and pigs and chickens and also having guests come and, and growing our own hay and living by the seasons. They, they leave that life at 53 because it's a physical kind of life. And Matthew and I always joke that this life is either going to keep us young and active and vital, or it's going to kill us because it's a lot of work. And I'm, I'm pretty sure it's going to keep us young and vital. But there's a lot to it. It's just really different.

I'm always super impressed going through your social media and like seeing all the travels you're doing and everything that you're Keeping up with, like I literally told my wife, I was like, "This is the kind of energy I want to have as I age. Like this is exactly what I want to be. Like that whole life being on a ranch in Colorado is just so, I guess, idyllic for me and my like dreams and everything else." So it's like I look at you and it's just such an inspiration. And I love the idea that it keeps you young because I think so many people when they get to a certain age, they kind of. I don't know, take a backseat to themselves and start to give up. And then you can see them age, but I don't think it's a result actually of like normal aging. I think it's like a result of them just stopping and not doing things. Like they sit in front of the TV and they, they live kind of a boring life. So what's your advice for those people that are maybe in this transition in life and they're trying to figure out what is next? What are they going to do next? And your whole book is about that change. So. Maybe give us a little, I don't know, just a little brief summary of what that process is.

I appreciate the opportunity to do that. I think having gone through this kind of a change at the phase in life that I was at gave me a little bit different insight because I was looking for something really different. I was looking for that next, and it was more of a next And I think a next can be small, it could be a next step, but when it's a next phase in your life, I think for especially people who are at the latter parts of their career, maybe thinking about retirement, maybe thinking about, you know, what's next in this like next 20, 30-year span, and they're stepping out of what our career path has been and now they're trying to redesign a life. I think understanding what's really important to you moving forward in terms of how do you want to age, how do you want to be active, how do you want to think about what's important to you to feed you? Because when we're working in more traditional ways in our career, it's the job and the work that feeds us. And one of the things that happens to people as they age out of their careers And they step into that next phase is they lose their purpose and they lose that kind of drive and that hunger for wanting more. Because now you're supposed to relax. Now you're supposed to sit back. And I was like, why? Why would I want to sit back? And why? I'm hungry, period. I wake up every morning and ask myself to this day, and now I'm 67, right? So now I'm like, Oh my goodness, are you still hungry? Do you still want more? And I do. Every day I'm thinking about what are we going to do next and what else can we milk from this place and what else can we morph into because that's what keeps us alive. And so whether or not we're traveling or we, you know, we just built a hay barn. I don't, you know, who builds a hay barn at this age? You know, but we make decisions. Decisions about what's next for us based on what is going to allow us to live this lifestyle that we have designed for ourselves as long as we so choose. And so now some of those decisions are made by, is it going to be more efficient? Are we going— what's going to make our lives easier? You know, I want to take care of animals for as long as I possibly can. And we grow our own hay and we store our own hay. Well, we were putting these huge tarps over the hay, and we get a lot of wind and rain and snow in this valley, and those tarps would throw Matthew around or throw me around. So now we realized, oh my goodness, tarps are not sustainable for us. Tarps do not make it easy for us to grow and keep the investment of our hay that we work so hard to get off of our land and store to feed our own animals. So we built a structure that now allows us to get rid of those big tarps and makes it, oh, so much easier to go in and store our hay and get our hay, which now I look and I go, this is going to allow us to do this for as long as we so choose to live this life that we designed. And I think when you get to that next phase in your life, and this can apply through all the nexts that I hope people see that they can have throughout their lives. But as you age, you know, one of the things is how do we get to age gracefully and easily and still be able to be physical and get the most that we can out of life? So we make those decisions based on our next. Does that answer that question?

I think you answered his question.

Absolutely beautiful. I have a bunch of follow-ups, but Nick, you go.

Lifestyle design is such an important concept. And Sydney, I read your book— Cindy, I read your book all the way back in October. And one of the things I remember resonating with is this idea that just like you, I always have been satisfied. Like, I live an amazing life, but what fuels my fire is not getting into alignment. It's continuously exploring new frontiers and trying new things out. So, I'm just like you in that way. But I don't think that— I think that most people listening to this podcast are not aligned, like in the present moment. They don't enjoy what they're doing and they're looking for somebody to give them the courage to take that next step. And maybe that is a different phase of life, a different job, a different career path, something like that. So, what do you say to somebody during coaching or your immersions where they're looking to make a big leap but they're just scared? They don't know if it's time to jump or not.

I think most of us facing change, which is really the code for a next, it's a change, is that we listen to those voices in our heads. And You know, we listen to the fears of what that unknown or that fear of failure might be, and those sometimes block us from doing what we know we should do to make a change, to make things better. So there's 2 concepts here. One is when you recognize that things are not aligned, that things are not going as well as I want them to go for my life. To first of all acknowledge that that's okay, that we grow, we evolve, and things change naturally. And what may have worked before may not be working now because, one, you may have grown out of what you're doing, or the organization and the job and the work you're doing, maybe it's evolved in a different direction which no longer aligns with you. So first, Recognizing it for what it is and just accepting it's okay that we're allowed to make changes and things might evolve beyond us or around us, and it's just okay. 2, things that block us, like the fears, the fear of the unknown. It's hard to move to something when you don't know what's next. It's hard to move beyond what you know already, and it's nice and comfy cozy, and we're willing to settle for what we've got because, hey, it's something that we know, and what we don't know is often scary. Well, that is an indication that you need more information to be able to make a change, and that's all that is. So usually we get fearful of the unknown When we don't have enough information and we haven't actually gone out and found what we need to fill in the blanks to make it more known versus unknown. So if we live in the unknown, we're gonna live in fear. If we go out and we explore the possibilities, we gather more information. We explore whether or not there are other options for us. Then we gather the information and we're less fearful. Because now we can make some decisions and choices based on that information. Then we have to get past the, well, what if I fail? Which I think is a 4-letter word, by the way, that, you know, I'll swear till the day is done, but I don't like the word fail because I think if we buy into the concept of failure, then we also buy into the concept that we don't learn. And I believe we all learn if we're willing to learn. Then how do you fail? How do you fail? You just learn more and you gather more information. Then you make different choices and different decisions. So I think sometimes we just have to get away from the things that block us naturally and accept that we get to make a choice and look at change as more of an opportunity. Rather than something that's really daunting and scary and fearful.

I love this story that I heard on another podcast about— you talked about, uh, I believe the goat's name was Bella, could be wrong about that, but the C-section. Do you mind? Like, you talked about you wanted to be a ranch girl and you didn't feel like a ranch girl. And I think that's like something that a lot of people struggle with. And maybe it's this, we can call it imposter syndrome or whatever, like When is that moment that we are that thing? Do you mind like unpacking that story a little bit and talking about that? Hello, Book Thinkers family. We are on a mission to change people's lives for the better, and we believe that the right book at the right time can change your life. And the only way we can impact more lives is with your help. If a book has changed your life for the better, I wanted to ask you a quick favor. Could you please take a few seconds and leave a review of our show? Because if you're like us, you want to change not only your life, But others' lives as well. And by you leaving a review of our show, it spreads the word about all of these life-changing books and does just that. We greatly appreciate your help. By reaching more people, you help us change more lives. Thank you so much for your time. And now back to the show.

I don't mind at all because it was a really big moment for me. And, you know, one of the things about ranching, once we sort of figured out what the species were that we were going to start to raise, one of the species was goats. And I like small I like small animals. We've got miniature horses, miniature donkeys, smaller goats. And once we got goats and I got comfortable with goats and we had some female goats, I thought, wouldn't it be cool to have baby goats? Because I'm not sure there's anything cuter on the planet than a bunch of jumping around little baby goats. And I wanted to experience that. So we went out and found a male goat to impregnate our females. And 5 months and 30 days later, whatever it was, we start birthing goats. And I knew nothing about this, but I gathered information. And it's amazing with Google, you can Google anything, right? So Googling how to birth goats, 'cause I decided I needed to be a part of the birthing process and was going to be a goat midwife. And again, scared as all get out, what if something goes wrong? And didn't know what I was doing, but was bound and determined to be a part of this process. So we ended up with like four goats pregnant at the same time, and luckily the first three goats birthed seamlessly, and I was a part of it. And I gotta tell you, it was an amazing thing to be a part of—to see these babies come out, to help. To dry them off, to give them to their mothers, to see the mothers take to these babies. It was one of the most magical moments of my life. And I started to sort of feel like, I know what I'm doing here. Like, maybe I am a ranch girl. But then Bella. Bella was a different breed of goat. And Bella was the last of the 4 goats to start to show signs of birthing. And I started to notice that things were not progressing in the same way. And I called the vet, and the vet said, "Let her go a little bit longer." Here are some of the things to look for. She had me doing things to this goat that a nice Jewish suburban girl would never think about doing. I will tell you, and I'm moving in this baby around in this goat, and I'm still recognizing. That things are not going well. So I kind of move into the barn and I'm watching Bella and I'm seeing that this pregnancy is not— this birth is not progressing. So I called the vet and she came and it's 1 o'clock in the morning in the barn and she takes one look at Bella and she says, the only way to save the goat and the baby is to perform a C-section. Do you want to do it? And I'm like, save the goat, save the baby. So she lays out in 5 minutes, she lays out this, all this stuff on the floor in the stall. Other goats are looking at us. They're all in their boxes and everybody's very, very interested in what's happening. And she says, we're performing a C-section on your lap. I need you to hold the goat. I'm like, excuse me? I'm thinking we're gonna take the goat somewhere. We're going to a sterile area. And no, she says, here we go. And she like knocks the goat out sort of. And she performs a C-section on Bella on my lap, on the floor of the stall in the barn at 1:15 in the morning. And out comes this baby, which we really call a kid, a goat kid, and hands the baby to Matthew. And I've got this goat With her innards all over the place. She starts putting them back, sews the goat up, and it's like I'm— the whole thing takes 10 minutes, less than 10 minutes. And then she looks at me, the vet looks at me, and she goes, all right. She goes, nice job, ranch girl. And I was like, I did it. I made it. I'm, I'm there. I mean, I think I was there, right? Who gets to like birth a baby with a goat baby and a C-section on your lap in the middle of the night in your barn? So from that moment on though, I thought if I could do that, if I could be a part of that, if I could say— and we did, we saved the life of our goat Bella and her kid who, you know, was Hugo. I mean, It was an extraordinary experience and one that I don't think I could ever have imagined when we bought the 35 acres of land and I stood there and I looked out and I thought, you know, this is the life I'm designing. I don't know if you can, you can sort of imagine that one. I don't know.

It's an incredible story about identity, really. I mean, you stepped into a new identity. Somebody else gave you the language. They sort of certify that they see you through that new identity of ranch girl. And maybe the next title, the title of your next book could be Goat Midwife.

I definitely am a goat midwife. I have— I think I've been certified by someone somewhere. I don't know if there's a certification. But, you know, we've done piglets now and I've raised chicks from like a day old and geese. I mean, I think I'm Mother Goose. I raised geese who just bonded to me and would follow me everywhere on the property. I mean, you just, I don't know. It's, it's been an extraordinary ride.

Well, for somebody in the audience that enjoys these stories and they're starting to listen to you and they're like, I want to be around her a little bit more. Could you tell everybody like what ranch opportunities you have, what coaching opportunities you have, and some of the other things that you're working on professionally outside of managing the ranch?

I'd love to. You know, when I got here, I decided that coaching was my calling and to live on the ranch and be able to coach. So I have, I have clients that I take on for coaching and people ask me, are you a business coach? Are you a life coach? And the answer is Yes, because part of finding your next for me was recognizing that work should be the major ingredient of life, and to separate out work from life, I think, is a setup for us. So part of my coaching is working with people in a very holistic way, and so I love doing business coaching. I work with Everybody from the top C-suite all the way down to whoever, you know, any kind of managers and learning leadership skills and building businesses. I love all of that in terms of being the business coach that I am. But my style of coaching with the individuals that I coach with is a much more holistic way so that we talk about designing the lives that they want to live as they're working, as they're thriving, and what makes that happen for them. And then for those who want a bit of a more of a deep dive, those who are on that cusp of making a change, are looking for their next, we offer an immersion experience here at the ranch where people can get a taste of the life that we've created, the life that we live, as more of an inspiration of what may be possible for them. And then while they're here for about a 3-day experience, I take them through a very individualized coaching experience to help them find their next. So I don't coach in groups here. It's only for individuals or couples or business partners. So people come here to figure out what's next for either their business or their relationships or to help them design the life that they want to live.

I think Luke is your next customer.

I know.

We'd love it.

Something, something that, um, I wanted to ask a little bit around this clarity thing, because I think that's, that's the big struggle that a lot of people— I mean, we all struggle with it, right? Getting clarity on what we want to do with our lives and what we want our lives to look like. Like, what are— I guess maybe we can start with how can we separate, like, what's important for us versus what's important for society or our family or the things that we think we should do?

Oh, I love that. Because, you know, one of the first things I do with coaching or an immersion is get people to stop shoulding all over themselves. Because, oh my goodness, do we do that to ourselves. So part of it, I think, is to— the clarity that people need and the process of finding the clarity of really what's next is to hone in on and actually separate out before we put it all together. Where do you thrive in working in your relationships and in the life that you want to design for yourself? And I think we get into a lot of those shoulds. What does society tell us we're supposed to do? What does our boss tell us are supposed to do? What do our parents tell us we're supposed to do? Even our spouses and our loved ones. And I think one of the reasons that I focus so much on the individual or couples or business partners is to— and when people come here— is to get out of their current reality and to stop living in those shoulds and to start taking them through a process of asking some really good clarifying questions. About where do you thrive, where are the opportunities, where are your strengths, where are your skills. Let's focus in on all that good juicy stuff about you and let's lessen all the noise about what other people think you should be doing. If anybody, if I had listened to anybody that, you know, 12, 13 years ago, do you think I'd have a ranch? In Southwest Colorado, because everybody was telling me to build another business. Everybody was telling me to look for the next opportunity. You're a serial entrepreneur. You should. You should. You were so successful. You should. And I was like, "Wait, what about me? Where am I gonna thrive? What should I be doing is what what." What I need to be doing to design that life for myself, and I need to get clear on that. Sometimes we just need to shut out those voices because they're figuring it out from their perspective looking at you. When I coach, I look in you and we talk.

That's so powerful. I think for me, I kind of had this almost 3, 4, 5 years ago. I don't know how long it's been. But I had this first question of like, I looked at my life and I was like, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing right now? And I realized it was like, oh, I'm doing this to get my dad's love, or I'm doing this to please my wife. I'm doing like all these things. And I didn't ever really stop to ask, what do I want? But even like that question isn't good enough. Like that, what do I want isn't good enough because that, that comes, you know, that, that stops you. But I love your, even the question that you just asked was just there they're a little bit more clarifying. It's like, how do you thrive? What do you enjoy? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? Like really getting an idea and getting to know yourself is like almost in my eyes, like the first step. So for the people that are listening that are still maybe stuck on that, that one question of, oh, what do I want with my life? Like they've cut their, their step out of what others want, but they're just asking now, what do I want? What are some other questions that they can ask themselves to get a little bit more clarity?

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You know, it's— I think the want word is a loaded word. I think sometimes it's hard for us to answer the question, what do we want? Because it makes us feel selfish. And it makes us feel like we're kind of in an arrogant space to be able to ask ourselves, what do we want? We should be taking everybody else into consideration. All those other things into consideration. So I actually don't ask, what do you want? I try to get to what's important. And when I said that the word want is loaded, there are a lot of loaded words out there. You know, oftentimes, let me give you an example. When I'm coaching with somebody and I'll say, what do you think is really important to you about the way that you like thrive when you work. And oftentimes, sometimes I'll hear somebody say, well, I want freedom. And I'm like, whoa, that's a loaded word. You know, what does freedom mean? Well, freedom means flexibility or freedom means autonomy or freedom means— so we gotta be careful when we ask ourselves what we want that we don't get a whole bunch of loaded words, that we actually break all the words 'Cause words are important. Break the words down to their individual parts. Break it down and continue to break down the words of what you think is important. Then you can start to load the words back up. And when you can come up with 4 or 5 or 6 loaded words that are really, really important to you, Those can become the criteria for making decisions about that next job, about that relationship that you want to be in, about the life that you want to live. And those become those sacred things that you're actually not willing to compromise on, because if something elevates to something that important, then you have to be able to check the box in order to say yes, that that's the job you want, that's the work you want to do, that's the person that you want to spend this next period of time with, that's the life you want to live. And then you get clear when you can check that kind of box and when you can say If I don't get these things, I'm going to walk away. I'm going to say no. That becomes very, very powerful.

Yeah, I think it's powerful too. I heard somebody say recently, just in this line of thinking, they said, if you want to lower your chances of success, make your goal as vague as possible. And I think one of the ways that you make your goal vague is by using loaded words that don't actually represent what you're truly going for, right? So, I think that's really special.

Thank you.

We're getting towards the end of the show. So, I know I have one last question for you, and then Luke probably has a couple. So, I love to ask this of our guests, because our guests are authors, and authors are around books all of the time. Are there any books that you are constantly gifting to the people that you're coaching, or that come for your deep immersion workshops, And if so, maybe what are the 1 or 2 books that you've gifted the most over the last couple of years?

That's interesting. You know, what's funny, and I'm going to tell you something that I probably wouldn't share, shouldn't share, is I wrote a book about self-development, personal development. And I don't read a lot of those books.

That's okay.

I just don't do it. And, um, I've, I've read a bunch. Um, one of the books— the, the ones that I really like are the ones that are probably pretty irreverent. And, um, one of my favorite authors is Jen Sincero because she's probably one of the most irreverent authors that I know. And I—

She's been on this podcast.

Has she? I love her. I love her. And, um, we have a lot of the same kinds of, of, of looking at, um, life. And the fact that she wrote a book calling, you know, Becoming Your Best Badass, or whatever the actual title is, I don't know. But who uses badass in a book, in a title? And I loved that. And I do believe that people should really become just the badass that they are. So she's probably the author that I recommend the most in terms of her books and her way of looking at things, because I think we have a similar outlook in that it's very opportunistic and that we don't let things stop us. And so she has broken through my barrier of not wanting to read about bunch of, um, self-help books. I just love her.

Well, now you, you two have shared the digital stage together on the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books podcast. And also, the two of you have the same kind of, uh, like you layer humor in, you know. And, and I think that, uh, I see the similarity there. I love that.

Yeah, she cracks me up. She cracks me up.

All right, well, Sydney, I have a few more questions, but this conversation has just been so amazing. I love your energy. And like I said, when I was diving into your story a little bit, just learning more about you, I was like, oh man, this is like the life that I eventually want too. So, it's aspirational and it's really inspiring seeing you and Matthew work this ranch together. It's so cool. The first question I'll ask is, where can people— before I ask my final question, where can people go to find out a little bit more about you, your books, all the stuff that you're doing?

I do have a website, ironically, just crazy as it may seem, called findingyournext.com. And the only thing is next is spelled N-X-T. And we just, we wanted something a little bit different and a little bit more urgent in looking at it. So we just, we kid around that we just, we're moving forward into It's such a speed that we don't have time for the E in the next, but it's findingyournext with an NXT.com. And that's probably the best place. My book is on Amazon and at all other places that you might want to purchase a book online. You can get Finding Your Next.

Beautiful. And we'll make sure, obviously, link it in the show notes and all that fun stuff. All right. So this is the final question that I love to ask all our guests, which is this. You pass away and all the information that you put out, courses, coaching, seminars, books, everything disappears, but you can leave the world with a single piece of advice. What would it be?

Oh, what a great question. Embrace every next because every next is just— you're allowed I would— actually, let me stop. I think one of the pieces of advice that I would give to people is that being satisfied and in love with your life and still wanting more are not mutually exclusive from one another. You can have it all.

That's powerful. Oh man, you can have it all.

I love it.

Yes.

You can have your cake and eat it too.

You can, you can have your life and your next as well.

Yes.

You can live your best life.

What a perfect way to round out this podcast. Thank you so much for your time, Sydney. This has been amazing. I appreciate you and your energy. This has been great. Thank you.

This has been fun. Thank you for the time. I appreciate it.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives. And by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.

Bye.