178. Rory Vaden | Take The Stairs

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Rory Vaden, author of Take the Stairs, among others. Rory is a New York Times bestselling author, co-founder of Brand Builders Group, Hall of Fame keynote speaker, has a viral TEDx talk, has been featured on Wall Street Journal, Forbes, CNN, Entrepreneur Inc., and on Good Morning America and Fox News. Rory came from a poor background but never let that define him. Early on, he asked himself, what would be the trajectory of someone's life if they didn't wait until they were 25 to get their crap together? He decided to use his life as an experiment of making uncommon good choices, which has led him to a very successful and fulfilling life. In this episode, you'll learn about why finding your unique skill is so important, why you're here to serve, the importance of thinking long-term, what sets successful people apart from the rest, what personal branding really is, how no matter who you are, you too can be successful, and much, much more. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with—

Nick Hutchison.

Rory Vaden.

Hey Rory, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. I'm so excited for today's conversation all about Take the Stairs. I'd like to start here. While I was listening to the book, I heard this concept of Eric Chester's timeline. It changed your life and I think it'll change the lives of our listeners today. So let's start there. Can you give everybody some context? What is Eric Chester's timeline?

Yeah, well, uh, Eric was one of my mentors and he's one of the people who inspired me to be a speaker because I was in college and I was in a direct sales company and I was actually, I was selling educational children's books door-to-door to pay my way through school. And they brought Eric in to be a speaker at one of our meetings. And he pulled this measuring tape out like 100 feet. And he said, you know, there's 12 inches in a foot. And there's also 12 months to a year. And so he said, if this timeline were to represent your life, that means 100 feet that you see here represents 100 years. And then he said, that means that every foot on this tape measure, represents a year of your life. And he said, and then he said, so he went to college. And so he went to foot, you know, the on the tape measure, foot 18 through foot 22. And he said, these 4 feet represent your time in college. And then he said, you do this program for 3 months in your summer. And he said, so it's really only 3 inches. And he was talking about how If you make good choices for like this 4-year period in college and these 3 inches, he said, it's gonna shape the next 60 or 80 feet of this timeline. But if you make bad choices, you can make one bad choice and it will completely change the rest of this timeline. But bad days don't have to be bad. And this ultimately became— Yeah. In the Take the Stairs book, something that I call the perspective principle of faith. And it has to do with how ultra performers respond when bad things happen to them. So Take the Stairs is all about the psychology of overcoming procrastination, building self-discipline, and building the habits of the world's wealthiest, most successful people, which is like what I, what I was studying. And the way that successful people respond to failure is markedly different from most people. And, um, let's say for example, if you had a flat tire, so let's say you're driving down the road and all of a sudden you have this flat tire. Well, if somebody asked you that night, they said, tell me about your day. Chances are you would probably tell them about the flat tire because a flat tire in the context of what would happen in any normal day is a, is a pretty big deal, right? It's a pretty rare thing. And you go, oh my gosh, you know, I had this flat tire and I was stranded on the side of the road and now the tow truck's taking all my money and like I was getting rained on and bleh. But if you fast forward on the timeline all the way to the end of your life, And you're there on your deathbed and somebody says, tell me about your life. There's no way you're going to be telling the story of that flat tire because over the course of your lifespan, a flat tire is a very insignificant, trivial event. And this is what ultra performers understand. They understand that problems in relation to today Are big problems. But problems in relation to your lifespan are small problems. And problems in relation to eternity— I mean, the fact that I had a flat tire today is not going to affect whatsoever the course of humanity or civilization. Nobody cares about my flat tire. So the problems in relation to eternity are no problem. But what most people do is we're living on that You know, that 1-centimeter part of the timeline, and we're so upset and we're so focused. And what the ultra-disciplined, ultra-successful people do is they think longer term, and that gives them the perspective of faith, and the payoff is peace in their life. And so, that is one of the 7 strategies in Take the Stairs.

I really loved that section of the book because I think oftentimes about death. Luke knows this. I love to go here during conversations but I actually have the words memento mori tattooed on my chest. It's a reminder to take prioritized action and not waste my time or complain about things that over the long term, like you're explaining, are meaningless. So, I'm curious, what recommendations would you have for somebody listening today other than the perspective shift of lengthening their timeline to calm down in the moment of a flat tire and not let it ruin the rest of their day?

Yeah.

So that's great. So, yeah, I mean, in many ways the strategy is simple, right? It's think long-term, right? Think longer-term. Now, the next thing you need to understand about your thinking is that if you aren't thinking about your thinking, your thinking starts to think on its own. And the human mind left to its own devices, Gravitates towards the negative. And the reason why is because the human brain is not programmed for success. It's programmed for survival. The number one function of the human brain is survival. So the, the number one job of the brain is to keep you alive. Well, what keeps you alive is conserving energy. That's literally in a survival situation. Your brain would kick in and go, how do I conserve energy? How do I keep you safe? How do I keep you comfortable? How do I keep you doing things that are familiar and not dangerous? But that's exactly the opposite of the mindset of an ultra performer, of a take the stairs mindset of an ultra performer. Being successful in life means doing things that are uncomfortable. It means doing things that are different, things that are Unfamiliar, um, and things that require energy to learn new things and do new things and build new muscles. And literally inside of your brain, you have to build new neural pathways in your brain. It takes energy to do that. So you have to, when you're thinking of, when you're thinking long-term, you have to be consciously Choosing to think positive so that you don't unconsciously accidentally choose to think negative. Because if you don't consciously choose to think positive, you'll unconsciously choose to think negative, not because you're a negative person, but because you have a perfectly functioning, healthy, normal human brain that's just trying to keep you alive by keeping you safe so that you can conserve Energy. But ultra performers and successful people are not normal. They are not ordinary. They think differently. So, it's consciously choosing your thoughts. It's thinking about the vision you want. And then in the moment, you know, specifically to your question, Nick, to go, what do you do in the moment when something bad happens?

Yeah.

So, there's 2 things that I would say here. One is you can immediately choose gratitude. That always is a good answer. And so, you go, yes, I have a flat tire, but what am I grateful for? And I don't necessarily mean be grateful you had a flat tire. I'm saying, what are you grateful for? Well, you might be grateful for the fact that Uber exists and that you can Uber home if you need to. Right? You might be grateful that you had a flat tire on a street that's familiar. You might be grateful that you have a spare tire in your trunk. You might be grateful that it's raining, but at least you still can be inside of your car, shielded from the rain. And when you're grateful, it completely activates a different physiological response in your body, different chemicals that fire, and you feel differently. So that as a tactical thing is a good thing. Now, sometimes people say, well, well, having a flat tire is a bad thing, Rory, and it's not the right thing to be grateful in a bad situation. You're not being honest with your emotions. And I'm all about the conversation about listening to emotions. I think God gives us emotions because they're useful to have, but emotions are tricky because we don't tend to make great decisions emotionally. And what I would say is it's not the emotions that really matter, it's the mindset that matters. And so the second thing I would say is create a positive alternative story.

For example?

If I just say I had a flat tire, that's a bad thing and I would be upset about that. But what if that flat tire saved me from getting into a fatal car accident 5 minutes down the road? I would think completely different about that flat tire. I would not only be not angry about it. I would be grateful for it. And we don't know that that is how it is, but we also don't know that that's not how it is. We don't have the benefit of knowing. All we get is a choice in how we choose to respond and how we choose to think about that specific event. And that is a disciplined choice. That's why take the stairs is, of course, a metaphor. For doing things you know you should do that you don't feel like doing. And so, it takes conditioning. It takes mental conditioning to train your mind to be that way. That's not the default design of the human brain. And that's why success is not ordinary. Wealth is not ordinary. Happiness, great relationships, being physically fit, those things are not ordinary. They're not normal. They're not average. What's normal is Indulgence, safety, comfort, convenience, and procrastination. That's what's normal. You can look at the data, or you can just open your eyes and look around. If you want to have a different life, the next level of results always requires the next level of thinking. And the Take the Stairs book is, you know, my attempt at codifying the way that the world's ultra performers Rory, I, man, all your—

I just love listening to you talk. It's like every single phrase that you say is just a golden nugget that I'm just hanging on to, and it's wonderful. How did—

Thank you.

A kid that was born, you know, in poverty, really, in a trailer park with his mom, like, how did you cultivate this mindset? Because you had every excuse and right, you could say, to take on the victim mindset and not be successful. So I know this is kind of going back a little bit, but early on, what did you do? Did you consume things like Tony Robbins? Like, what were you doing that created this version of you today?

Hello, Book Thinkers family. A quick word from today's podcast sponsor. Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audiobooks. Ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, business, and my favorite, personal development. And as part of Audible's partnership with us, we're actually offering listeners a free 30-day trial. This trial includes one credit good for any Premium Selection titles you'd like on the whole platform. So that's pretty much any book, including the one we're talking about today. That book is yours to keep even after the trial is over. Now, this trial also includes access to Audible's Plus catalog of podcasts, audiobooks, guided wellness programs, and Audible Originals. You can listen all you want, no credits needed. Now everyone on the Book Thinkers Instagram knows that I love physical paper books. There's nothing better than having a book in your hand, scribbling notes everywhere in the margins. I kind of tear those things up, but I've been completing an additional 20 to 30 books every single year using Audible by listening when I'm in the car, doing chores around the house, Or while I'm on my morning walks or runs. You could take advantage of this free trial by clicking the link in today's show notes or going to www.bookthinkers.com/audibletrial. You will not regret it. Now, back to today's episode.

Yeah, well, I, you know, the first thing that comes to mind, it was definitely not Tony Robbins. Um, it was, When, when I, you know, I started out in martial arts when I was young because I was super into the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which is funny because now my 2 kids are like, it's made a total comeback. Like, my kids love the turtles and I'm like, I'm here for it. I'm in. So I was, I got into martial arts when I was 5 years old. And, you know, by age 10, I had become the youngest black belt in Colorado to ever get beaten up by a girl. And I got beat up by this girl in this contest. You know, they had like this karate tournament and I literally got beat by this girl. And I was telling my mom, I was like, Mom, I hate this.

This sucks.

Like, this isn't fun. Like, I don't like this. And my mom said to me, she said, oh, that's okay, Rory. Enjoying it isn't a requirement of doing it. Enjoying it isn't a requirement of doing it. Hashtag Rory's mom, straight up, right? Like, and my mom didn't have a lot of money. You know, we never had a lot of money. We always had a lot of love. And, you know, she had had my brother when she was in high school, and then she got divorced from his dad, you know, like 3 years later. And then she had me when she was 22 years old, and then Uh, you know, she was divorced from my biological father 6 months after I was born, and we never saw him again, basically. And so, you know, she's single mom, 2 kids, no college degree, 2 kids under 5. And, um, and so I was always curious, uh, you know, you asked me about my motivation. Like, all I wanted growing up, there were, there were 2 things that I wanted. The first one was I wanted Air Jordans. Everybody had Air Jordans. I did not get Air Jordans. I got Air Jordache. And anyone that lived in the '80s, there was a shoe brand called Jordache, which came from Famous Footwear. And that's what, that's what I got. I got the $9 Air Jordache and, and kids would make fun of me, right? Because like I had the knockoff shoes. The other thing that I really, really wanted Was boxed cereal because our cereal came in a bag and it was on the bottom shelf, and it wasn't that it tasted bad. The problem was it didn't close, and so it got stale after the first day, and it sucked. And I hated having stale cereal. So like, it was a bit of a materialistic motivation early on where I was like, how do I get to afford Jordans, and how do I get boxed cereal? And then You know, as I got older, I realized, you know, kids would make fun of me for the clothes that I wear. And many of it were like hand-me-downs and Salvation Army. And thank God for all the people who donated to us. And we had really great friends and family who always, you know, provided, helped, you know, make sure we were safe and fed and stuff. But we got pretty close to being on the streets a couple times. And, you know, my mom's doing great today, but there I was sort of fascinated with why do some people, why do these other people have money? Like, how come their house is so much bigger than our little tiny apartment? And how come their car is so much nicer? And then when I heard about like Stanford and Harvard, you know, I was like, how come, why can't I go to that school? And my mom was like, well, you know, it's about money and it's a lot about legacy and who you know. And, you know, we don't know those kinds of people. And, and so then I was like, well, how do you become those people, basically? And I just became infatuated. So that was part of it. The other part of it was when I was in 6th grade, I was at Platt Middle School. I kid you not, PMS. I went to PMS. That's where I went to middle school was PMS. And I'm at Platt Middle School. And this speaker guy comes in. And he's like telling this whole story about how he was a drug addict and his brother got murdered and he went to jail and like, you know, people were coming after him for money. And he was basically talking about how he made every wrong decision with his life. And he was like basically saying, you should make good decisions. And he was like, I basically waited till I was like 25 to turn my life around. Don't be like me. And I remember thinking, I wonder what would happen. Yeah, there was 2 things I thought. The first thing I thought was, how do you get this guy's job? That was the first thing I genuinely was like, because he was really funny and entertaining. And it was like life-changing to me. And I was like, gosh, this is some good stuff. So that was my first thought. And my second thought was, what would happen if someone made good choices their whole life?

Yeah.

Like, what would be the trajectory of someone's life if they didn't wait until they were 25 to like get their crap together? And so I kind of like, almost in that moment, I remember going, I'm gonna use my life as an experiment. And my experiment is gonna be like, I'm gonna just try to make good choices that are maybe not common choices. You know, and And I mean, it paid off. I was valedictorian. I got a full academic scholarship. I was an All-American athlete. You know, people probably don't like hearing these things, right? And I don't mean to brag, but it's like, it's the true story. I went into direct sales. I made $250,000 in 5 summers when I was in college. I then started my journey speaking. I went to the World Championship of Public Speaking the first year when I was 22, you know, 25,000 contestants. I made it to the top 10. Now, I did lose, but then I went back the next year and I studied harder and I practiced more. And I, that year, I, well, I lost again, actually. I lost the second year too, but I was the world champion of public speaking, first runner-up when I was 23. And then I became a New York Times bestselling author when I was 29. We built an 8-figure company. I was, you know, we were multimillionaires, my wife and I, by the time we were 30. I had a TED Talk go viral, you know, like a couple years later. We sold our first company. It was an eight-figure business with 200 people. We sold that. Then I got inducted into the Professional Speaking Hall of Fame when I was 37. We started working with Lewis Howes, and we were consulting Lewis Howes, and he became the first client in our new business. And then, you know, now we've worked with Ed Mylett and Amy Porterfield and Jasmine Starr and Eric Thomas the Hip Hop Preacher and. Uh, you know, working with John Maxwell right now. And like, like, you know, like God has— I think we've been really— we try to really, you know, you mentioned the other influence, like it was not Tony Robbins. I am a hardcore Bible-thumping Jesus freak. Like, I grew up on the word of God, man, like the bread of life, reading the Bible, believing in it, actually being skeptical of it, and then studying it. Um, but now fully being sold that it's all historical, logical, academic, archaeological evidence to support all of it. You know, and so I still very much consider my life as an experiment in that way. And, you know, I guess those are, those were, those were some of my motivations.

One of the things that's clear is that you took action, right? You've mentioned a couple of times what happens if you can And one of the reasons we have this podcast and the community that we have is because we believe everybody has the same potential, and you just need to take action and have belief in order to get to the next level. And there's a story in chapter 7 of Take the Stairs about belief. You kick off talking about the pendulum. Can you start there and then translate into taking action and having belief back up what you do? And you can use the Bible reference if you want as well.

Yeah, it's funny. Like, you guys actually read the book, which makes sense. Every other podcast I've ever been on, they haven't read the book. So you're asking me questions that nobody ever asks me.

Can I tell you something funny, Rory? That is the number one most common piece of feedback is, wow, you guys actually read the book. So we take pride in it.

That's amazing. I mean, literally, this interview is not like any other podcast interview because you're, you're, you're grabbing from things that are deep in the book somewhere. Yeah. So, so the pendulum principle of action, this is the 7th of the, you know, there's 7, take the stairs principle, perspective principle of faith is number 6. This is number 7. And, um, yeah, I tell a story about how this professor was standing in front of a room and he was explaining to his class something called the law of the pendulum. And he said, class, the law of the pendulum states that once any pendulum is released, It cannot return to a point higher than which it was released. And he said, do you understand this law? And they all said yes. And then he said, well, do you believe it? And they all said yes. Now, there was this one particularly arrogant student who was sitting up in the front of the classroom. And he was like, well, duh, it's only obvious. And so the professor invited this arrogant student up to the front of the classroom, and the arrogant student agreed. Now, over to one side of the classroom was a desk with a chair on top, and the professor asked the arrogant student to get up into the chair, and then he did. Well, the professor then went over to the middle of the classroom. He pulled back this large curtain, and suspended from the ceiling was this iron cable, and at the bottom were 3 45-pound weights, and the professor had constructed a large and perfect pendulum inside the classroom. And so he grabs the pendulum, he walks the pendulum right up to where it's touching the tip of this arrogant student's nose. And he says, the law of the pendulum states that once any pendulum is released, it cannot return to a point higher than which it was released. And he said, do you understand this law? And the arrogant student said, Yes. And then he said, do you believe it? Just then, the professor let the pendulum go. So the pendulum swung across the room and started to return. Now pause it right here. What do you think that arrogant student did? That's right. I got the hell out of that chair as fast as I could, guys. Like I was out, right? So the, the pendulum swings back. It didn't hit the wall. And the professor then stands in front of the class and he says, class, today I was not teaching you about the law of the pendulum. I was teaching you about a different law called the law of action. And the law of action says it does not matter what you say you believe. Your real beliefs are revealed by how you act. Act. You can lie with your words. You cannot lie with your actions. And my pastor, Nick, I think what you're referencing is is my pastor told me when I was in high school. He said, Rory, if you want to know what somebody believes in, you don't even have to ask them. All you have to do is look at their calendar and their checkbook, because whatever they spend their time on. And whatever they spend their money on, that's what they believe in the most. And so we live in a world today where everybody has a mouthpiece and everybody can say all sorts of stuff. And unfortunately, we don't always get to validate or verify their actions and if their actions really, really line up. But to be an ultra performer, Right? Take the stairs is these seven principles, the seven mindsets of truly the world's ultra performers, the top one percenters. These people back it up, right? Their actions are in alignment with their words and with their beliefs, and that is not most people. It seems simple, but it isn't. It is. It is simple, but it's not easy, and it's not most people. It is a take the stairs mindset. It is a conscious choice to say like. I am going to curate my actions deliberately, specifically, intentionally based on the things that I believe in and that I want to be about and I want my life to be about and that I want my life to be a reflection of. And I want people to be able to see those actions and know something about me before they've ever met me. And that's just not most people, but it is the ultra performers.

So, do you think that anybody has the potential to tap into that greatness, to tap into that discipline? Or is it just reserved for special people like somebody that— like you, I would say. But, uh, uh, but what do you— what are your thoughts around that? Because I know a lot of people, a lot of our audience, like I know me for a long time, I had this belief that it was like, oh, that person, you know, they have something different, they have something special, they have something that I don't have. So what is your thoughts and beliefs around that?

Hello, Book Thinkers family. We are on a mission to change people's lives for the better, and we believe that the right book at the right time can change your life. And the only way we can impact more lives is with your help. If a book has changed your life for the better, I wanted to ask you a quick favor. Could you please take a few seconds and leave a review of our show? Because if you're like us, you want to change not only your life, but others' lives as well. And by you leaving a review of our show, it spreads the word about all of these life-changing books and does just that. We greatly appreciate your help. By reaching more people, you help us change more lives. Thank you so much for your time, and now back to the show.

Yeah, well, I'm 100% convinced that everybody has this potential. Um, I believe that God has a divine design of our humanity. I mean, we're, we're created in his image. He's a creator, therefore we are creators. God spoke the world into existence. Therefore, I believe we can speak the world around us very much into existence. Those are fundamental beliefs I have. Separate of that though, and regardless of what your theology is, in a much more practical sense, let's visit psychology for a moment. Everybody thinks that we struggle, that they struggle with discipline, right, Luke? As they go, oh, I've always struggled with discipline, or my kid struggles, or my team member struggles with discipline. But in reality, people do not struggle from a lack of discipline as much as they struggle from a lack of vision. When you have a crystal clear picture of what you want for your life and for your future, there is a naturally strong connection to how the sacrifices that are necessary to be made Forward you towards that goal. It thereby creates a context for action to take place, and our discipline engages automatically. You know, you hear stories of like Aron Ralston, who cut off his own arm, right? He was stuck in between 2 rocks. Or, or, um, Nando Parrado, whose airplane crashed in the Andes when he was a teenager, and he was a rugby player, and he walked out of the Andes like Like with nothing but his, the clothes on his back. Um, these are people who they suddenly, they had a clear vision of saving their own life and their, their, the discipline is activated. You can, you can, it's unfortunate because teachers will sometimes look at a kid and say like, this kid is stupid and he's lazy. That same kid will go spend 12 hours at the skate park on a Saturday in the blistering hot sun. Like, Our discipline engages as a byproduct of our vision. If we don't have discipline, it's not because we don't— if we're not being disciplined, it's not because we don't have discipline. It's because we don't have the right vision. And we don't spend— like, if you don't have a clear picture of what you want for your life, then there is no connection to how the sacrifices that you're asking yourself to make today, or that your boss is asking you to make, or your parents, or your business partner, There's no reason to make the sacrifice because there is no payoff associated with it. And so, the natural default function of the human brain kicks in, which is safety and survival and conserving energy. And so, there is no reason to take action, and so you don't. It doesn't mean you're lazy. It doesn't mean you're stupid. It doesn't mean that God has defaulted you to a life of mediocrity. And it doesn't mean you have an absence of discipline. It means you haven't yet clarified the purpose of your life or the next purpose of your life. You haven't yet clarified that vision. Show me someone struggling with a lack of discipline. I will show you someone struggling with an unclear vision. Show me somebody who has a clear vision and I will show you somebody with incredible discipline. They're inextricably like they are connected. And we blame ourselves and we blame other people and we shame ourselves and we shame other people about you're not disciplined, this or that.

Yeah.

And it's like, we're fighting the wrong battle. And it's actually much, much simpler, right? It's not just willpower. It's like, willpower is hard. Like, yeah, I'm going to muster up the courage to do something I hate.

Like, that's hard.

That's hard for anybody, right? We go like, Rory is a disciplined dude. I don't freaking want to run anywhere because I don't want to run a marathon. My friends are always trying, you should run a marathon. I'm like, no, I should not. I have zero vision to run a marathon, right? Like, I do not have the discipline to go run. Like, if I decided one day I wanted to run a marathon, yeah, my discipline would show up. Right now, I don't have that in my vision, right? Like, my vision is different. So, we don't need to beat ourselves up and other people. We just got to spend time getting really clear on what we want for our future.

Rory, one of the areas that most people struggle with as far as vision is around personal branding. So I teed that up to close out the final third of our conversation. So for context, for everybody listening, I joined Rory's company, Brand Builders Group, as a client, I don't know, about 6, 9 months ago, somewhere in that timeframe, because I was launching my book, Rise of the Reader, and I needed some clarity around who is Nick Hutchison outside of Book Thinkers? What does he represent? Who does he serve? What does he want to talk about on stage? And so that's why we're having this conversation. That's where we got connected. Now, your books are amazing, but I'd also like you to talk a little bit about how people can get more vision and certainty around their personal brand and sort of what is personal branding. So, that was a mouthful, but let's kind of start there as we transition over to BBG.

Yeah, totally. Well, there is a connection, right? So, first of all, when we talk about personal branding, I mentioned some of our other clients that we work with in addition to work with you, Nick, and I'm so excited about what you're up to and where you're going, brother. I would, I'd buy stock in you. I can, I can see where it's headed. Um, the, uh, the, the people think personal branding is about social media and followers and email lists and podcasts and, you know, speaking on stages and having information products and, and, and, and, you know, logos and colors and photos like And we have a much more fundamental definition of personal branding, which is that personal branding is simply the digitization of your reputation. It's really just about your reputation. And in, and one of the concepts we talk to people about is something we call Sheehan's Wall. And Sheehan's Wall references that in any given market, in any vertical, in any industry, there are 2 groups of people. There are those that are unknown, right? They're struggling with obscurity. They're not well known. And then on the other side of the wall are people who are well known. They have notoriety. And in between these 2 is a, is a huge invisible wall that we call Sheehan's Wall, because we named it after Peter Sheehan. Um, the visual originally was inspired by Peter Sheehan and a concept that he had, um, for more for like companies. And we applied it to personal brands. So we named it after him, but Um, and what most people do who are unknown is they look at the people who are well-known and they try to emulate all of their things. And they go like, ooh, I want to be like Tony Robbins. So, you know, Tony talks about all of these things. Tony talks about money and he has— talks about health and business mastery and relationship mastery and Date with Destiny and like, you know, investing, all, all of these different things. And so they, they're like, well, I like, you know, I have lots of topics. And so they talk about lots of topics. And then what happens is they go, ooh, there's all these different platforms I need to be on, right? I gotta have a YouTube and a TikTok and be on X and Instagram and Facebook and Pinterest and Snapchat. And so they're like trying to keep up with all these different platforms. And then they struggle to narrow in on their audience. And they're like, well, you know, I really like to talk to young people about this, but I have a heart for single moms and part of me wants to be in the nonprofit space. And, you know, I really like entrepreneurs, but I, you know, there's there's some corporate people in there too. And like, they can't narrow their audience, and so they're talking to too many people. And then every time you scroll through on Instagram, you see an ad for a new business model. Like, the key to making millions is to launch courses. No, you should do masterminds. No, you should do retreats. You should do a coaching program. You should do consulting. You should do, uh, high-end webinars, right? No, you should do a membership program. Like, you should do destinations. Like, consulting. Write a book. You know, all of these things. And so they have too many topics to too many audiences on too many platforms with too many business models. And what happens is they bounce off the wall. And the reason they bounce off the wall with their personal brand is actually because of a concept that we first identified and talked about in Take the Stairs. And this is the connection between the two. The reason they bounce off the wall is because If you have diluted focus, you will get diluted results, period. If you have diluted focus, you will get diluted results. And the single best piece of personal branding advice I've ever received came from a guy named Larry Winget. And I heard this early in my career. This is not a Rory Vaden quote. I wish it was, but Larry is the one who said, the goal is to find your uniqueness and exploit it in the service of others. Find your uniqueness and exploit it in the service of others. But Larry never taught people how to do that. And so, when we sold our first company and Lewis Howes called us and he was asking for some help, we had helped him launch his first book, but he was like, I need some bigger picture strategy on where I wanna go with my brand. And at the time he had about 30 million downloads and we had time available. And so we started working with him and, you know, he said, this is the most powerful thing I've ever done. Um, and he grew from 30 million downloads to 500 million downloads 2 years from then. And he told the whole world like about us and said, hey, this is your new company. This is what you guys were born to do. And it comes back to this idea of, you know, God's divine design of your humanity. What is your uniqueness, your unique vision, the thing that you were created to do that only you can do? And then it's about having the discipline to focus on that one thing. So, the Brand Builders Group experience, so Nick mentioned, right, he's a client. So, our experience is 14 different courses. Yeah. And the first one is called Finding Your Brand DNA, where we help people figure out their uniqueness. We help them get clear on 4 one things. What problem do you solve for the world in one word? Who do you solve that problem for in one phrase? How do you solve that problem in one sentence? And what is the one revenue stream that matters above all others? And those are difficult questions. And so we take people through, you know, this whole, you know, kind of creative, uh, introspective process to help them get clear on these 4 one things. And as we get clear on it, we go, oh, now we have their uniqueness. Then we can simply run a process like basically this giant checklist to go, okay, let's turn it into a body of work. Let's turn it into a TED Talk, a book, a keynote, half-day training, 2-day training, full-day program, you know, 6 months, whatever the thing is. Then let's get you on more stages. Now let's build the social media followers. Now let's build the funnels. Now we can do paid traffic. Now we can grow the audience. Now we can sell higher-dollar offers. Now we can build the team. Now we can get you, you know, more paid engagements. Now we can do a big book. And, you know, book launches is one of the things we've become really well known for. We've had 29 clients become New York Times, Wall Street Journal, or USA Today bestselling authors. We've hit the New York Times 11 times. In the last, um, you know, year or so. And then we help people scale their enterprise because that's what we did before. And it's all in— all under the idea of helping mission-driven messengers exploit their uniqueness in the service of others. Yes, so that they can become more wealthy and well-known, but really so that they can make a bigger impact in the world. So that's what we've been doing the last 5 years. You know, and there is, there is, there is a, you know, connection to, to all of it.

Yes, there is. Luke, we'll kick it over to you. I know we're going to wrap up in the next couple of minutes. And then Rory, I definitely want to make sure that people know where to find you if they want to set up a call and learn more about BVG as well.

Sure, sure.

Yeah, sorry about the hesitation. My internet connection, I think, was, was slow. It was delayed, a little delayed. Rory, so I want to know, you're writing about a new book. You're writing a new book. Can you give us a little teaser into that new book? Maybe some what it's about or anything that you're willing to share?

Yeah. Well, it is about this. It's about what we've been doing the last 5 years is helping people build and monetize their personal brand, right? It's the system, the science, the structures that we've developed that are 100% proprietary that we seem to have a pretty good track record with of helping these people go. You know, I think I told you guys, I just got off the phone with Lisa Bilyeu right before I hopped on with you. You know, Tom and Lisa Bilyeu are clients. Eric Thomas, the ET, the hip-hop preacher, is clients. Like, really amazing people. And our heart is not really for the celebrities. I mean, we love them.

Yeah.

Our heart is for the person out there who feels a calling to share their message with the world. Many of our favorite clients are what we would describe— they would describe themselves as like the world's best kept secret. And we don't want them to be the world's best kept secret because you're not serving anyone when you're the world's best kept secret. Uh, you know, if you have the cure for cancer and nobody knows about it, I would call that actually a disservice to the world. Um, and so we're trying to help those people, the ones— and it's not that we don't like making money. We love making money. We're good at making money. But when we say mission-driven messengers, we're talking about people who care more about the mission than they do about the money. They care more about their reputation than they do about revenue. They care more about impact than they do about income. It doesn't mean they don't care about money and revenue and impact. It's just subservient to the mission. And these are people who have realized that The key to a fulfilling life is service. And that's the thing that always satisfies and never goes away is the feeling when you add value to somebody. And so, a lot of people struggle to find their uniqueness. A lot of people struggle to even answer, what problem do you solve in one word? Like a lot of people struggle with that. And by the way, if you go to freebrandcall.com/bookthinkers, Oh, cool. We will do the first call with you for free, like, and we'll show you this, this whole system. Um, and we, we do it totally for free, freebrandcall.com/bookthinkers, so that we can get to know you and, and get to meet you and hear from you. Um, and I'll, I'll tell you the shortcut, you know, if there's a shortcut to finding your uniqueness, uh, since, you know, we may not get to spend 2 days with everybody. I'll tell you, this is the shortcut. There's a pattern that we noticed. We didn't know this when we started the company, but now that we've taken a couple thousand people through this, we started to realize and figure out that for all of us, you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. You're most powerfully positioned. To serve the person you once were. That is our greatest hint at your uniqueness, is looking at your past. It's looking at the, the, the life that God has had you lead.

It's—

and it realize— it helps us realize that every problem you've been through has been about preparing you to serve a purpose for somebody else. And so we ask, what challenge have you conquered? What obstacle have you overcome? What setbacks have you survived? And even though those have been struggles, we know that that is the path to your uniqueness. It is the reason you were created. And it means that there are people out there right now who are desperately seeking and searching for answers that you know like the back of your hand, not because you've just learned about it, But because you've lived through it. And our mission is just connecting those people. So, freebrandcall.com/bookthinkers, that's the first step.

Rory, it's so, so powerful. Nick, before I ask my final question, do you have anything else that you want to ask?

Oh no, I'll just throw a quick testimonial out there for Brand Builders Group. Like I said before, I joined about 9 months ago and I'm through the brand DNA process and I feel very confident now telling everybody about who I am and what we do and who I serve. And I'd just like to say that I've attended online events, I've attended in-person events, I've attended Needs and Leads networking calls and book-related calls, speaking-related calls, and there's just so much value and there are so many incredible people in that network. I mean, you show up for the help around the branding, but you stay for the community. So I'd encourage anybody on the fence to shoot me a question or sign up using the link that Rory mentioned. And Just explore BBG because it really has been transformational for me.

Thank you, Nick. I love that, man. Yeah, I love that. That is our heart and it is that way. People come for the content and then they stay for the community because they're all mission-driven messengers and they realize, they go, there's a whole world of people that are like me going, you know, I actually want to change the world. Like, I, that's what I legitimately want to do. So man, thanks so much for that.

Yeah, you're welcome. All right, Luke.

All right, Rory, this is the last question. I like to ask all our guests this, and that's this: if you pass away and all the information and the courses, everything disappears, but you can leave the world with a single piece of advice, just one piece of advice, what would it be?

Yeah, I would say you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. That would be the thing. That I would want people to know. I'd want my kids to know that God is using you to make a difference in the lives of other people. And the happiness that you seek and the purpose that you seek and the profit that you seek is tied up in adding value to other people's lives and serving them by sharing with them What you have gone through. And it's just the most amazing, amazing blessing. And, you know, if you're, if you're a hardcore Bible-thumping Jesus freak like me, it lines up because Jesus made the— you know, there's, I think, 617 or 611 laws in the Old Testament, which is crazy, right? The Old Testament is crazy. And then Jesus comes on the scene and he boils it down to 2 things. He says, love God and love others. Like, super simple.

Mm-hmm.

But again, whatever your theology is, I promise you, I've, I've, I've, you know, chased alcohol. I've chased success. I've chased money. I've chased fame. I've chased knowing other famous people. None of those things satisfy you. What will satisfy you is the feeling that you've made a difference in somebody else's life. It is the most satisfying experience. of this life. And if you pursue that, then you will get happiness. And most of all, you'll make money and all that, but what you will get is peace. And peace is really the new profit. Nobody— we don't need more money. We don't need more followers. We don't need more fame. What we all want is peace. And that's what comes when you are living a life of service. So, you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. So, get after it.

Rory, this has been such a powerful conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. I can't wait to maybe meet you in person one day. It's been such a blast.

Thank you, guys. I really respect what you're doing. You guys are making a huge difference. It's amazing that you read the book. I had to go into the archives of the Rory Vaden mind there for a minute and be like, what did I say about But you're doing a good thing. You're making a huge impact on people. So, thanks for having me.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives. By reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.

Thank you.