181. James "The Iron Cowboy" Lawrence | Iron Hope

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview James Lawrence, also known as the Iron Cowboy, author of Iron Hope: Lessons Learned from Conquering the Impossible. James is a 2-time author, an elite athlete, a Guinness World Record breaker, including things like completing 50 Ironman distance triathlons within a single calendar year and completing 100 consecutive Ironman-length triathlons in 100 days. He is a speaker, coach, and a family man with 5 children and is on a mission to help people redefine impossible. James considers himself average, even though he has accomplished incredible feats and believes that anyone can achieve the impossible with the right mindset. In this episode, you'll learn about how and why you can achieve great things, why the boring work is the most important work, what role community plays in accomplishing big goals, about his insights into raising exceptional kids, why you need to take responsibility for every aspect of your life, and how you too can achieve impossible feats. Now, get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with James, the Iron Cowboy, Lawrence.

James Lawrence, the Iron Cowboy, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. Here's where I want to kick off.

Okay.

It's 1999 and you decide to participate in a last man standing Ferris wheel standoff, and then you end up talking about how that experience actually translated into endurance sports. But why don't you kick off and kind of detail that experience? where you were at in your life, what it was like, and what you learned from it.

Yeah, I love that you used the term last man standing. This weekend, one of the wingmen, Casey, he's doing a last man standing run, and I get the opportunity to support him in that too. So it's going to be a lot of fun. He's going to go over 200 miles, so he's going for the win. So we'll see what happens. It's going to be a long day and a long night for all of us. But then that's why, that's why we love doing what we do. But yeah, back in '99, I was kind of in a dead-end job. I grew up in Canada, great, great upbringing, great family, grew up a wrestler, played, but played every sport, but kind of gravitated towards wrestling. And so I think I attribute a lot of those days to developing my mental toughness or the beginning of my understanding of mental toughness and mental mindset and growth and things like that. But grew up going to the Calgary Stampede every single year and saw an opportunity, a contest, a radio contest where they said, hey, we want to find out who can ride the giant Ferris wheel for all 10 days of the Calgary Stampede, which is one of the largest rodeos in the world. And, and I took the opportunity and was, was shocked at the, at the time watching people quit or exit the ride and, and abandon the goal that they had set to win. And, and ultimately, now having a better understanding, it was simply because they were losing the conversation they were having with themselves. And it's, it's even more difficult in today's day and age where society is, is grabbing your attention 8 seconds at a time. And so to sit on a Ferris wheel where their goal is boredom for 10 days. I can now understand why people were, were getting off. Long story short, I won the contest, lost my job, and hitchhiked a ride to Utah where I met my wife and have now been married 23 years and have 5 kids and just enjoy, enjoy life out here in the mountains.

Well, just like you, while I was growing up, I was a wrestler, not as great of a wrestler aspiring to be an Olympic wrestler like you were, but I wrestled in states here in Massachusetts and I learned a heck of a lot about mental toughness while wrestling. So kind of that wrestling foundation taught you a lot of your early mental toughness. What's funny is I actually see a parallel between your endurance sports and reading books. Both of them delay gratification. You need to set a goal, you need to put aside the 8-second phone, and you need to focus for extended periods of time, perform deep work, and be very comfortable kind of in your own head. And so We'll transition here for a second. Why do you think it is that the average person in 2024 has such a hard time focusing and putting off, you know, their instant gratification?

Well, I, I think we've just been conditioned, uh, conditioned to do that. It's funny that the word mindfulness didn't really exist when I was, when I was younger and growing up. I saw a comedic skit the other day where he was like, mindfulness, that was like Going to the bathroom, or like I'm experiencing mindfulness, or like just doing things where you just have to sit in boredom and and just be okay with your thoughts, or waiting for the bus, or riding an airplane, or driving a car—all these different things—to where you are experiencing mindfulness. But now we have to intentionally do it. And so I think we've just—you know—there's even with my five kids, there's a generation gap between the oldest three and the younger two because that that was really when phones and everything were coming out and social media was coming to the forefront. And and you know my. 2 younger kids, they really don't know life without it. And, and, you know, so those programs really, really just are there to program and shape your mind. And we get these dopamine hits over and over again, and then we continue to crave that. And we've lost the ability to sit and dream and be creative and actually just the gift of being bored.

Well, James, to transition over to some of these amazing athletic feats that you've accomplished, I became a fan of yours probably back in 2017, 2018. I had read Born to Run, Christopher McDougall and Nataria Humara, and I just became so fascinated with endurance athletes in this endurance space. And then I find out that you do 50 Ironman triathlons in 50 days in 50 different states to add an absolute logistical nightmare to it. I mean, how did that challenge come up and arise? I mean, it's one of the greatest feats that not a lot of people talk about. I think it's one of the great feats of athletic history. I mean, how did that come about?

Yeah, thanks, man. It certainly wasn't from, you know, waking up and believing I could do that. It was, it was over a long period of time. And again, just like the 8-second dopamine, we live in a society, in a culture where we read headlines, we make assumptions. And we just assume that that person is gifted, or they don't realize that there's a body of work before that moment. And we just read those headlines and make assumptions. But really, it started with a 4-mile fun run that I struggled through. And then I found the community and sport of triathlon, which I fell in love with, and was doing it together with my wife. And we were starting to raise a young family. And, you know, at that moment, at that time, an Ironman, one single Ironman becomes the pinnacle and the dream. And then you do that. And as you change, evolve, adapt, and grow, more becomes possible. And as you're experiencing, you believe more is possible. And then I was like, okay, well, I can do that faster. And then you just start going down the rabbit hole and things escalate as you continue to—

Yeah.

to show up and push boundaries physically, mentally, and broke the half Ironman world record, broke the full Ironman world record, and was like, okay, man, what's next? And, and just like you, I studied other motivational people in the space. And Dean Karnazes, ultra endurance runner, was kind of at the peak of his career, and he ended up doing 50 marathons in 50 days in 50 states and had this great coaching career and a successful book and was on Good Morning America. And I was like, dude, I want to have that kind of impact. What if I did that with an Ironman? And then that's kind of what started that entire process. And then from there, obviously, we've gone on to completely change our lives, our career, and the trajectory of what we're doing and just have been able to impact a lot of people.

What's interesting, you brought up Cam Haynes before we press record today, and one of my favorite lessons from his book is that he's just an average guy, but he chooses to develop himself every single day. Do you think you're also An average person, James? Or do you think you were born a little bit different? I'm sitting here today with Ken Rusk, who has done hundreds of millions of dollars in business. He's also sold tens of thousands of books and changed countless lives. We're sitting here today because he is sponsoring today's episode. So Ken, tell everybody about your course.

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No, 1,000% average. In fact, I joke with my kids all the time. Um, like, after the 50, like, people were convincing me, they're like, you're different, there's genetics, there's this, you can't achieve— I can't do that. And I was like, no, trust me, you can do this. And they're like, no, I can't.

And I'm like, no, trust me, you can.

And, and so I, I went down that rabbit hole and I got all the tests done and my epigenetics and trying to find these genetic markers. And I, I joked and I, I got the results back and I sat my kids down and I was like, hey, get ready. I'm about to tell you the gift they gave you at birth. And, and then I joke and I say the, the first, the first line of the report was, you're an average white Canadian. But, but the reality is, is there's not a single genetic marker in there that separates me from anybody else. And, and in fact, that's been one of the more challenging things in terms of like, Marketing my speaking and marketing our retreats and marketing our mastermind is people like, well, I can't do what you do. You're different. And I'm here to tell you I'm not. And Cam Haynes is normal. Goggins is normal. I'm normal. It's like we're all normal dudes who have just over a long period of time really applied ourselves and made the right sacrifices and really continued to show up. And over time, You can separate yourself from the people that are settling for mediocrity. And, and that, that's— there's no, there's no secret sauce to that. It's about showing up and doing the work and really be, you know, the superpower of dealing with doing the monotonous stuff over and over and over and over again. And that's the, that's the part that people aren't willing to do because they're looking for that 8-second bump. They're looking for that 8-second stimulus. And unfortunately, in order to be successful, You, you have to be able to look past an 8-second bump.

Okay, so somebody is listening or watching to this show and they're like, I get it, James is an average guy and he's done some incredible things, but I'm sitting at my house eating Doritos, playing victim. Like, what's the first step? What's the first realistic step for somebody to start their trajectory to get closer to where you're at? Like the uncommon amongst the uncommon, like Goggins says.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, the first thing is accountability and taking accountability for where you are. And just like he says, like the accountability mirror, like standing in front of the mirror and just saying, look, I'm a loser and it's my fault, or I'm winning and it's my fault. Look, I'm in shape and it's my fault. I'm fat and it's my fault. Like, that accountability piece has to be the first one. No, like, I've just learned at a really high level from doing decades of coaching people, you can't change anybody. You can help them, you can guide them, you can give them every single tool. But until they're ready to make that shift and change, there's nothing anybody else can do. It's the old saying of the teacher will appear when the student is ready. And so get yourself ready and the world will— the universe will start providing teachers, mentors, examples, the path in order to get where you want to do. And then you just have to start showing up. So really, you got to take accountability. You got to figure out where you want to go, because if not, you're just wandering around aimlessly. And then you got to put together a game plan, reverse engineer from where you are to where you want to be, and then just pick one thing and slowly chip away at it. And also give yourself grace and recognize you're not going to be perfect. You're going to suck at it.

One of my biggest taglines I say from stage is every journey has a humble beginning, and you got to be okay with, with sucking, and you got to be okay with, with not being the best when you first start, because nobody And I know that, you know, we, we've said that there's nothing abnormal about you and you're a regular guy, but one thing that I really loved when listening to your audiobook and following you through the Conquer 100, I feel like it is abnormal, the community that you've built, you know, around these massive events and how many people you get to go out and join you. And you make it almost like these massive parties. And I mean, Sonny and your kids and Casey and the wingman and the support team. I mean, how important is that aspect of it for you? I feel like the positivity and the happiness— you're wearing the Choose Happiness crew neck right now. How important is having that community and having all of those people around you when you're attempting these giant colossal events that you do?

Yeah, great question. I think it's everything. Nothing great is ever accomplished on our own. And I learned that early in my career when I pulled a boy with cerebral palsy. Through a full Ironman. And I kept looking back at him and, and realized like, he can't and I get to. And if I quit, he doesn't accomplish the goal. And, you know, together we're gonna be able to get this through. So he was providing a ton of energy for me and, and some motivation, inspiration for me because I, I recognize he can't do these things. And then I was providing the actual physical work that it took to get us both to the finish line. And neither of us would've got there if it wasn't for each other. And I'm not the Iron Cowboy. We're the Iron Cowboy. And that includes me, my son, uh, Sonny, my kids, the wingmen. You know, none of it happens. And in fact, Jesse Itzel gave me one of the— a really nice compliment one time when I was speaking at his mastermind group for his, his leaders. And he just said, aside from the logistical feat that it was, aside from the physical, aside from the mental, he goes, it was one of the greatest campaigns of bringing the community together when we needed it most after the pandemic. And really, that's why we've launched our mastermind is because as we were marketing the ability, the fact that we could help people navigate some of the difficulties they're having in their lives in terms of business and family and belief systems that they have, one of the biggest, you know, concerns or comments from people that we were talking to was they're just tired of doing things on their own and they would love to find a community of like-minded people to do it with. And I think as humans, we're tribal, like we are tribal beings. And we need each other. We need to— we thrive in tribes. And so the pandemic was just the worst-case scenario in terms of breaking up the tribes and breaking up the communities. And then the division we're experiencing now with politics and all these woke and controversial topics that are flying around, it's divisive and it's not serving us as humanity and it's driving a wedge in between us. And so the more we can come together and recognize recognize that, look, it's okay to have difference of opinions, but we need to work together and we need to do things in community in order to be successful. No, nobody has ever reached the mountaintop by themselves, and if they do, if they try, they eventually fall. Or, or if they made it, they're definitely not happy.

Yeah, I think that, um, you know, kind of bringing up like the state of America today, you know, I know fighting the obesity crisis is something that you're really passionate about, childhood obesity specifically, and It just, you look around here in North America, the US specifically, and you just go, what happened to people? Like, is it a coordinated effort to poison food and eliminate PE from school systems? Or is it just that people are getting lazier and our default is the path of least resistance? Like, what's your overall take on just the state of physical fitness and mental toughness in America today? Like, what's the reason for it?

Yeah. Oh man, I wish I could pinpoint the reason for it, but I think like anything, it's cyclical. And, you know, strong men create— how does it go? Strong men create weak times, weak times create whatever that lingo is. I think we're in a time of strong men created good times, and then it created those weak men. And We're just, we're just in a day and age of convenience and comfort, and things are just so accessible. Um, and I, man, I, I would just— it would be really hard to be a young person today's day and age because everybody's yelling at them for, for making the dumb decisions, um, quote unquote. But it's just what's placed in front of them. And they— To me, it blows my mind. We didn't even barely eat fast food back in the day. But now, you— not only are they eating a ton of it, it's they're having it delivered to their homes while they're sitting at home playing a video. It's just crazy, the technological world and the access and ease. Um, and it's hard to fault them because they, they, they just haven't been taught any different. And that's why, that's why leaders who are in a position need to lead. And that's why if you're a parent and you have kids, you need to be a parent. You need to be actively engaged in your kids' lives because If you let anybody do anything on their own without teaching or guidance, they're going to choose the path of least resistance for the most part, right? They're— it's just, it's innate. You're going to do that. It's not in our nature to want to suffer and do hard things, but it's counterintuitive, but that's how you grow, adapt, evolve, change, and become better. And so it's— I believe it's my responsibility Um, as the generation that I am with 5 kids and the generation they are, to be the example to them, to teach them to do difficult things, to show up in their lives, to sacrifice, to not always want that path of least resistance. And it's been one of the greatest gifts to do the hard challenges that we've done as a family, because my kids have had a front row seat to that learning. And I have 5 remarkable kids by accident of just giving them that front row seat to pain and torture and whatever we did.

Yeah, James, I, uh, I got married last year. I have my first kid on the way, and if you know anything about me, I'll be reading dozens of books on this subject of parenting and how to raise gritty kids and everything in between. So what is some of your advice? I mean, you just gave some of it, right? Lead by example. I think there is an epidemic of parents, especially fathers, living under their potential. And as we know, things are caught, not taught. And so, you might say, live up to your potential, kid, but you're not doing it or setting a great example. So, that's one tool is to live an amazing life like you have. But what else do you do with your kids to raise that path of most resistance mentality?

Yeah, I think one of the greatest gifts you can give your kids is confidence. And in order for them to gain confidence, as a parent, you have to allow them to struggle and fail. And that's really hard to do because we love our kids. And you're going to experience this unconditional love and you're going to want to run to their rescue. And it's one, you got to be the example, but two, you have to allow them to struggle. And that's, again, not giving them the path of least resistance all the time. Set parameters, set natural consequences. The biggest thing, though, is, is build up their confidence. Allow them to be who they are, and your job is to set the foundational principles for them. And and don't live your dreams and passions through them. Find what their dreams and passions are, and then help them to cultivate that. And it's you'll just see your kids blossom and grow. But allow allow them to experience some suffering, some some some discomfort for sure.

I've got one more question on this line of thinking, and then I'll kick it back to Chan. Chan, sorry, I know I'm hogging the mic here. No worries. Um, James, do you think that raising your kids within, uh, we'll just say within a religion, is important to set those foundational principles? Because it does seem like there's a big aversion to traditional religious structure today. Um, and I wonder if that's contributing in a big way to the, we'll call it, the decline of the average American, especially in like your kids' generation.

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Yeah, I mean, obviously we're seeing a big shift in the moment away from, from religion. And it is sad because there's so many foundational principles that are just truths that come from it. So like, it doesn't matter to me if you believe in God or not, but there's just some foundational truths and man Has has done a disservice to religion and what it was at its purest. But but I I think I think as as as humans we need to be able to decipher the the difference between okay what is you know spirituality and what has man man made it in order to profit from it. But I but I mean I'm so grateful I was I was raised you know Christian in in that. In that, in that, that, that religion. And I'm grateful that my kids were too. And we, we weren't the type of parents that like, like shoved it down their throats. We just presented options to them. And, and then they got to choose what gravitated or not. And it's been great because like, like a lot of people, there's, there's, we're surrounded by a lot of people, and there's a lot of social media, and there's a lot of things that are in front of us now. And all we did was point out, okay, look, this is a result of these behaviors. And this is as a result of these foundational principles. You can choose which one you did. And in fact, we never really had rules in our household while raising our kids. We, we just followed through with natural consequences on, on their choices, right? And, and we— I think we— my wife did a really good job of like saying, okay, these are the results if you choose these paths, and we're gonna let you guys choose whatever you want, uh, but, but know that these are the, the consequences to these decisions. Not punishments, but these are the natural consequences if you do this thing. And, and I think that's just been, been great to grow up religious and have that belief system. Outside of what, you know, whatever your belief system is, true spirituality has those really grounding principles of love your neighbor and kindness and truth and honesty and integrity, all these things. I can't find a negative to that, that way of thinking. I just can't find it.

I love it. I absolutely love that. I hate to move the conversation back a question or two, but I've been thinking about, you know, we've mentioned the negative parts of social media a couple times during this conversation. And, you know, we at Book Thinkers, we like to think we're part of the positive, informational, educational side of social media, and you're doing the same thing. So, you know, you're talking about leaders need to lead, parents need to parent. Who are some online mentors or people in this online space that you follow or you'd like to shout out and say they're doing great things? Because I consider you an online mentor, you know, following you for all these years, learning from you. I consider David Goggins and Rich Roll and all these people Mentors of mine, but is there anyone else that you know you're following or you're thinking about, or anyone else you've had the chance to sit down with that you'd like to give a little shout out to or say you know this is someone who's doing it the right way and people should be following?

Yeah, for sure. And in fact, because I've been able to be on different podcasts, I become friends with a lot of these guys that were initially my mentors and I looked up to Andy Frisella, total stud. Ed Millett, OG. Brendan Bouchard, Mel Robbins, Jay Shetty. I mean, all these guys are just doing it right. And they don't entertain, you know, you know, Frisella gets a little into the political side of things, and he can get a little rowdy. But for the most part, these guys, they just want to see people win. And they've all got great hearts. I mean, with even with the success that Andy's had, he's so kind. Anytime I go to corporate headquarters at 1st Phorm, he's just, just an unbelievable person. And he's had incredible, ridiculous amounts of money to sell his company and chooses not to because he just loves it and he loves the culture and he loves, he loves, you know, lack of a better term, raising the next generation and instilling those good principles and values. They're just really good people. And so, yeah, I, I love following those thought leaders. Chad Wright's another good one. Jesse Itzler, just, just great guys.

So many amazing people that you mentioned. Chandler and I have both completed 75 Hard a couple of times, and, uh, Andy's been involved with the Book Thinkers community for a long time too. So some great mentors there. Jesse is the same way. Way back when I gave a shout out to a couple of his books and he got involved like years and years and years ago, he had no following. So Jesse's another one of those amazing people. Um, Chandler, tell him about your unfortunate, uh, run streak. incident that happened recently.

Yeah, James, I, uh, I had done 1,000 days straight without missing a run, you know, and everything up to a marathon. I did my first marathon last year. You know, we play basketball a few times a week, so I stay active. I like to think I'm in pretty good shape, but I had a stress fracture in my foot last year, decided to run on it, run through it, you know, uh, powered through. And playing basketball a few months ago, I, I had another stress fracture and a chip fracture in my foot. So Had to end 1,000 days straight. But, you know, I'm 9 days, 10 days back running now. And I'm— I've been telling people there's plenty of people with a 1,000-day run streak, but I don't know if there's people with 2,000-day run streaks. Normally they just keep going. So I— a little bit of a setback, but I'm excited. Finally, finally getting back. And luckily the cardio didn't totally leave my body. I have a little bit left.

That's awesome. Unfortunate, but awesome that you got back up and you're doing it again. Hey, every, every good streak comes to an end. Have you guys heard of the story of the Marathon Monks?

No.

Oh dude, it's incredible. You guys need to do a deep dive into it. Anytime that someone comes out and tells me they've got a run streak or, or they're trying to break a run record or with the Guinness— shut up. Go Google and research Marathon Monks, and your, your opinion on streaks and running records will Just dismiss everybody else in the space.

I love it. I love it. I'm excited to look them up.

What, uh, what advice do you have for somebody in the audience that's like, okay, I feel motivated, you know, I feel kicked in the butt, I feel like I'm living under my physical potential and I need to go out and start an event? So like me, I just signed up for a sprint triathlon to kind of get my feet wet. It'll be my first time. Swimming, biking, running in an event. What's some basic advice you have for people? And I'm also curious, like, which one of the three have you grown to love the most?

Oh yeah, cycling for sure. Running's just like, as you know, stress factors, and it's just really hard on your body. And for me, as I age, cycling has just become way, way, way better for my joints. And just I can see more. You can involve more people with it. There's so many different modalities from it. I mean, fat biking, mountain biking, hardtail, softtail, full suspension, gravel, road, time trial. I mean, there's just so much you can do in the cycling space. And so it's just— and for where I live too, just access to the mountains. And then are you asking for advice for people doing a triathlon or what?

Yeah, somebody who's maybe just signing up for their first event. It could be a sprint or an Olympic or a half or Maybe somebody's just going for the full. I don't know.

No, man, people do, man. It's crazy. My, my biggest advice is start, start the way you're doing it. Start with the sprint. Um, you know, if you look at every single— and I say this all the time— but, uh, if you look at every single world champion in the half Ironman, full Ironman distance, they started with sprinting Olympics and ITU racing, and it was all about speed and power, and then they lengthen it out over, over a bigger distance. And the reason a lot of people get injured by trying to go too long too early is muscles develop far, far quicker than ligaments and tendons. You get some imbalances and you just get exhausted and burnt out. And so the greatest advice I can give anybody trying to come into this endurance space— strength and power, strength and power, strength and power, strength and power— and start short. Be explosive. Learn how to do that. Build your foundation. It'll serve you so much greater than if you just try to go couch to Ironman. Great. You've been motivated, you've been inspired, you want to go do something hard and you think a sprint is beneath you. It's not. If you race a sprint and you're pushing a zone 4, zone 5 for an hour, dude, it is a very challenging, very different experience. I can hurt myself just as bad in a sprint as I can an iron distance. They're very different sports. Just because they're both triathlon doesn't mean they're the same. In fact, my favorite distance to race is the half distance. Because you can, you can really push a pace. It's hard to push a pace for like 10, 11, 12 hours. You really gotta be methodical and your preparation has to be spot on. Nutrition has to come into a huge play. But the half, man, you can race a half and, and, you know, almost the top guys there, they're maintaining the same speed from the, the Olympic to the half distance. And so big answer to your question there. But my number one advice is don't try to reinvent the wheel. There's tons of information out there. Find a credible resource.

Start small.

Build a foundation of strength and power.

And I love too, I, that's wonderful advice, by the way. So I'm ha— it's validating I'm doing the right thing. I also love how in the book you talk about when you first got into running, you, people tend to think like, oh, if I buy nice equipment, just like when they're golfing, you buy a nice set of clubs, like it will help me out, but you need to put in the work. There's no excuse for putting in the work. And so I think that somebody listening might go, well, I don't have the ability to spend on equipment or fancy training. And it's like, No, I mean, you have a pair of shoes, you know, you might have a body of water somewhere near you. Maybe you can hop on a bike at your local gym or something and just go do the work. And I think that's also beautiful.

Yeah, I, I've trained a lot of athletes to the, the full distance who didn't have a bike until weeks before the race. And I don't advise that, but I mean, they had access to a gym, which, you know, we'll just take a, probably a standard gym, normal gym, $20 a month. Um, you've got access to a pool. treadmills and, and spin bikes. You can train for an Ironman on those 3 things. And so your investment is $20 a month plus a pair of goggles, a Speedo, and a pair of shoes. That's a pretty low barrier of entry. Now you wanna race? Yeah, you're gonna have to pay the $750 entry fee. You're gonna need a wetsuit, $500, and you're gonna, you could rent a bike, but I wouldn't advise it. But yeah, the thing is, is my very first sprint triathlon, Didn't know how to swim, borrowed a bike, and I had a pair of running shoes. And that's, that's how my journey started. And you don't need the fancy equipment. You, you, it's just like Lance Armstrong says, it's not about the bike. It, it's about the person who's navigating and doing it. The person who's putting in the work. The person who puts in the work and time will far exceed the person who has natural ability. That doesn't apply.

Well, Chan, I'll kick it over to you for one final question and then I'll wrap things up.

Yeah, of course. Well, I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the Conquer 100, right? I mean, we talked about the 50-50-50, but, you know, was it 4 years afterwards, like you talked about during COVID you decide to attempt 100 Ironman triathlons 100 days in a row? Which I also shouldn't say attempt, you did it. So I mean, that is just absolutely crazy to me. And you have a new book coming out hopefully pretty soon, right? The presale is going to be available coming up soon called Iron Hope. So Do you want to tell the audience a little bit about that story and what that book is going to entail?

Yeah, it was interesting because, you know, I had this conversation with someone I was coaching this morning, and it was about chasing down the ultimate version of who you are. And the reality is you're never going to catch that person because if you're showing up in your life, you're adapting, you're changing, and your definition of the ultimate version of yourself keeps changing. And that's how it's supposed to be. I don't think we're ever supposed to catch the ultimate version of ourselves. It's the it's the pursuit, and you know, and and also we have to realize that we're never going to be perfect, and we weren't perfect during the fifty. We were very open about mistakes that we made, criticisms that we took from the public. We we talk about it at a high level in the documentary that's on Amazon Prime, and also the book Redefine Impossible. We've never run or hid from anything, but I always wanted to redo the fifty without having to deal with the incredible logistics of it and. I'd already done it, and so do I need to do that again? And so, you know, as humans, hopefully everybody's wired in a way that we always want to learn from our mistakes and do things better at a higher level. And so after the 50, I, I was just— my career in speaking took off, and I was doing 80+ events a year. I've now spoken in 50 countries, and there wasn't really a time or an opportunity to, to tackle something like the 50 again. And then the pandemic hit, and I saw that as an opportunity because my calendar was wiped clean from speaking and racing and coaching. Like I had— like everybody, we had nothing to do but time. And I just saw this very small window to say, okay, I can reset my own history here. In fact, I don't want to reset my own history. I want to double what we did in the past. I don't want to redefine impossible. I want to defy logic. And so we did a real quick 4-month training camp and then tried to do something that nobody else had ever done in the world. And we, we tackled an iron distance triathlon a day, which is 2.4 miles of swimming, 112 miles of biking, a full marathon run— 140.6 miles a day for a quarter of a year. So 14,000+ miles, no days off. And that's what the book Iron Hope is about. Um, it's about bringing the community together. It's about believing in yourself. It's about not quitting. It's about, um, just, just really having hope on the journey that you're in, no matter what you're dealing with. And it's a, it's a remarkable, remarkable, um, Read, and I'm super excited to bring it to the public.

Well, I followed along on every Instagram story and every Instagram post along the way. I haven't watched the documentary yet, but I cannot wait for the book to come out. I I'm beyond excited. I'm looking forward to it.

Oh, thank you. Well, Chan, I'm going to put you on the spot one more time. You know, one of the lessons that I've learned running a large community on social media is that sometimes as creators or as endurance athletes like James is like. You don't hear the feedback unless you hear the feedback. You don't know the impact you're having unless somebody raises their hand and has an opportunity to tell you. So, Chen, you've been a fan for years and years. Like, what has James encouraged you to do by following him along and kind of seeing what he does in his life?

Well, one, like another author we worked with, Steven Pivnik, inspired Nick to sign up for his first sprint triathlon, you inspired me a few years ago to sign up for my first sprint triathlon and really helped me double down on my love of endurance sports. I ran my first marathon last year, and, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of athletes and creators out there that I give a lot of credit to, and you're absolutely in one of those top couple spots. So, you know, just thank you for the continued inspiration and doing what you're doing. You know, it's like Nick just said, you never know how many people you're impacting, and you don't know the trickle-down effect of that afterwards. And me getting Nick to sign up for a half marathon afterwards, and some of my friends getting into races and And, you know, starting to get in better shape and make some healthier habits and make better choices. So just, uh, thank you for what you do, James. Thank you for what you do. You're an inspiration to so many, and so many that you'll never know about too. So many people.

Thanks, Chandler. I really appreciate that. And hopefully you, um, one day will get the urge to, to do the, the full distance, to see what that feels like. It's a unique experience in itself, but like anything, it's, it's what you learn in the training process up to that. The actual day itself becomes a victory lap if you've, if you've done it right. And so hopefully, hopefully I got to watch you cross the finish line one day and have that experience, both you guys really. And yeah, one of the greatest lessons I teach my kids is show up in your life every single day and, and, and leave, leave a legacy that, that you, you can't measure the impact that you're having. And if you show up in your life every single day and, and try to leave that legacy, it's— you're on the right track.

Well, Chan, now that the Iron Cowboy himself has encouraged you to do a full distance, I, I'm excited during our next family dinner to hear about your plans. Um, I'll summarize one quick thing that I heard you say, James, and then we'll wrap things up. I heard you say that even though we can't achieve perfection, it's not— that's not a good reason not to strive for it. And I think that's a wonderful lesson to wrap things up for today. It's a little counterintuitive, Just like Jocko says, discipline equals freedom. But we've all come to understand that that's a fact. The more disciplined you are, the more free you are in life. And I think if you aim for perfect, although that will continue to move, it's not a reason not to go for it. It's in that process that you'll find fulfillment, which is so cool. So I've got 2 final quick things. One is, where can people go to preorder a copy of this new book, Iron Hope?

We will be launching it. I don't know when this is going to come out, but May 8th, 2024 is when it's going to pre-launch and we'll get you the link to preorder it. You can click on the link in this podcast. And so that's where it'll be. And then we'll also have links on our website, ironcowboy.com. And for sure, we're going to be posting everything on our Instagram, which is @ironcowboyjames.

All right. And my OG co-host Luke isn't here today, but he always wraps up with this final question.

And so I'll try to do my best to ask it.

here. He says something like, James, imagine you get deleted. The documentary is gone, the books are gone, this one, this next one's not coming out, the training programs, the website, the social media accounts, they're all gone, deleted. But you can leave the world with one message, and maybe it fits on a billboard. What would that message be?

Believe in yourself first. Don't give any power to the critics outside of the arena. And the secret to success is doing a lot of little things consistently over a long period of time.

Nice mic drop moment for everybody. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming on the Book Thinkers Podcast today. I mean, you've been giving me a kick in the butt the last couple of days as I've listened to your last book, and I can't wait for the new one.

Awesome, man. Thank you, boys. Appreciate it.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, Please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.