198. Dr. Brian Licuanan | How to Get Your Resisting Loved One into Treatment

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Dr. Brian Laquanen, author of How to Get Your Resisting Loved One into Treatment: A Step-by-Step Plan for Mental Health and/or Addiction Crisis. Dr. Brian is an author, speaker, educator, and board-certified psychologist with nearly 20 years of clinical experience treating highly acute clients struggling with mental health and substance abuse disorders. He also facilitates a support group for families needing to get loved ones into treatment and provides family crisis interventions for families, Desperate for help. Dr. Brian also practices what he preaches and cares for his body by practicing mindfulness techniques, strength and weight training, and competing in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which we'll get into in today's conversation. In this episode, you'll learn about Dr. Brian's background and story, why he wrote his book, insights into how you can help a family member or yourself out of addiction, the importance of embracing discomfort, why we all need to show up for each other with a little more grace, forgiveness and love, and how honesty is the antidote to healing. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Dr. Brian LaQuanen.

There's a moment in our past that maybe seemed insignificant at the time but ended up changing the trajectory of our lives. And so why don't you tell us about this emotional conversation you had with this person that totally changed your life?

Yeah, you know what, number one, Good to be here. Thank you for having me on, um, Luke and Nick. And, and you are the first person— I've done 20 podcasts, um, to date, and you're the first person that brought up Dr. Michael Mumford. I mean, wow. When you get right into it, man, it's— because that is such an important part of the book, as you mentioned. I, I acknowledge him in the beginning and at the, at the very end as well. And so So Dr. Michael Mumford, you can see my shirt here. It's Oklahoma University, and I was originally at Oklahoma University for a PhD program called Industrial Organizational Psychology. And a lot of people don't know what that field really entails, and it is nothing to do with therapy. But these are scientists who study and research behavior in the workplace. These are your human resource directors. These are the people who you call in when you're. going to downsize or merge. They analyze data, they develop instruments for assessing who are the best fit for employees. And they're very pervasive. You can work in Wall Street, the military, deciding on mission-appropriate readiness, and to a wide spectrum. And so I was there and thinking that that was the field for me, thinking of, you know, being a motivational speaker to companies. And I quickly realized That a lot of what they do isn't in line with sort of my skill set, a lot of data analysis. And I was really in a PhD program, and I was my 3rd year in as a master's, and I was really, really struggling with what to do. Here I am, 3 years in, but I knew that if I pursued this field, I would not pursue it for the long term. It'd probably be unhealthy for me. I'd burn out. And luckily, I was also doing some psychological work, clinical work, working with adolescents prior to going to Oklahoma, and it was a natural progression because they had a clinical counseling program that we were required to take some of their classes. And it came to a point one summer day where I said, man, I need to make this transition now. And I pulled Dr. Mumford aside, who was a high-level high-level person in the field, one of the top. During that time, he already had 20 publications. He was a senior editor for Quarterly magazine. He was writing a book and just highly regarded in that field. And I sat down with him, I said, Dr. Mumford, I'm in the wrong place. And he noticed a major shift in me, a difference. And so we talked about it, and long story short, the conversation transitioned to, I think I'm more of a clinician helping people than being a scientist on this level. And so I transitioned, and once I found that sweet spot, I just took off from there because that field is in line with my, my values, my skill set, my visions, my goals, my principles. And I haven't looked back since. So yeah, but thank you for bringing that up. Um, that is a really, really poignant part and transition in my life, and he was a huge factor in that. From— he went from this hardcore scientist to no No, no messing around to— I saw this other part of him that was like, wow. And he was a young— he was a father to a young child as well. And so I saw this different light of him, and I really am indebted to him.

Yeah, you can tell what kind of an impact he's had on your life. Obviously, you, you give him an endorsement at the beginning of the book, and you give credit to the conversation you had, and then again at the end. And as I was reading it, I felt like, wow, this is a mentor who changed a life. And I think that you are now a mentor changing the lives of a lot of people. Can you share with the Book Thinkers audience from your own words sort of what you do today and also at the tail end of that, why you decided to write this book?

Okay. Well, currently I'm a licensed psychologist. I practice out here in Southern California. Currently what I do is I'm contracted with various hospitals and clinics across California. and see clients on an outpatient basis through tele. I'm also in private practice. I give talks. I'm also, for about 15 years, supported— providing a support group through the National Alliance on Mental Illness. And so really, really spreading the word on mental illness is really huge for me. I do specialize in insomnia. I work a lot with substance use disorders and now family crisis intervention. And what I mean by family crisis intervention, back to your question, Nick, is that's the impetus of this book. Uh, what I had found out there working with a lot of these families are, that's it, are that a lot of them are stuck. They're paralyzed with fear and guilt. And you have these loved ones who are struggling chronically for years and decades. And what happens are the families are so scared to take action because something drastic may happen where they can lose their life, they become homeless, commit a crime. And the loved ones stay stuck and get sicker while the family dynamics continue to fray. And I thought in my work that there's already something out there like it, that no, there's got to be a manual out there, there's got to be a way to get people help. I can't be the first person to do it. And I was talking to clients and family members, and after a while they said there's nothing out there. And so I decided All this knowledge that I was giving and all these meetings, these support groups, the questions were so thematic. They were so short of saying repetitive. It was the same concerns. We don't know what to do. They may die. They may take their life. We're scared. You know, we'd rather have them at home struggling with alcohol rather than on the streets getting victimized. And and my their inquiries were very thematic, and so were my responses. And some people would ask me, "Hey, Dr. Brian, do you have this in a pamphlet? Do you have a slide presentation?" And finally, I realized after one person in my support group said, hey, do you have this in some type of a manual? If not, you should. And that's where it started. And I talk about it— the pandemic of 2020 was the impetus to me writing it because during that day of March on a sunny day, I was getting all these cancellations. As you recall, the world's changed. And I said, this is the time, because I had thought about this book well before 2020. Before the pandemic. But as you know, life gets to you. And finally, that was the time where I was sitting at my desk, looking out my window, blank screen, and I just started typing that conversation that I had in it for 6 weeks straight, for about 7, 8 hours a day. I wrote the book because it was all these conversations that were in my head, and it was already structured in my head and didn't realize it. So, so it's hopefully to keep families instill hope. and hopefully get them unstuck and know that they still have power and they can still get their loved ones back.

So powerful. Um, I love when I hear a story about someone who wrote a book that they just kind of connected in. Uh, one of our good friends, Steven Pressfield, he wrote a book, The War of Art. You may have heard of it. Um, he talks about connecting to the muses, and that's his view of you're connected to this higher thing which just flows through you and you just get it all out. And it sounds like yours came from a lot of different conversations that you've had over the years. And I'm really— I'd love to understand, what is your relationship with mental health? Meaning, is it something that you have struggled with, or is it just something that you have seen others struggle with and you've just learned how to help them get out of it? Does that make sense?

A little bit of both. I think every family now, according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, 1 in 4, 1 in 5 people struggle with some type of mental health condition. And I think that everyone can relate, that they have a family or family member, or if not, maybe someone in their intimate circle of friends who has struggled on various levels. And unfortunately, nowadays those struggles are very heightened with people struggling severely with substance abuse to the point where they can lose their life through an overdose, to suicidality if their depression and struggles are not maintained, to even general anxiety disorder where people are so anxious that they're not able to work, they're not able to associate with people. So on various levels on that, myself, and during that time I struggled with— the reason why I got very interested in insomnia is for about 3 months during that program, I was not sleeping. I was probably averaging about 1 to 2 hours of sleep a night because of the stress and racing thoughts and confusion of what I needed to do. And I remember that so vividly. And now I really, really appreciate people who are severely sleep deprived. It takes a toll, emotional, physical. And I'm surprised I lasted that long. Of three months straight, and I could just see the impact that it has. And so that's on a personal level, and on a family level, family and friend level. You know, people struggle sometimes culturally. We don't talk about it that much. But I think over these years, especially in America, with the advent of social media, we've definitely been destigmatizing mental health, and we've been talking about it more, which gives people permission to talk. I just posted a story on Instagram from. lead singer of Imagine Dragons. I don't know if you ever saw that. And it was so impactful that I posted a story. I don't know if you ever saw it. But he talked about the reason why Imagine Dragons was created was they was creating this false narrative because he struggled with depression. And so all of that's where Imagine Dragons came from, was spreading the word of, of healing and mental health and staying resilient. And that's where Imagine Dragons came from. It was this imaginary narrative that they tried to create. And he talked about get out there, Find help. I've lost— he said, I've lost too many people who thought their life wasn't worth living, and I'm not doing that anymore again. And so those are the people, the impact people. That's the impact I want to have, is giving— destigmatizing mental health and giving people permission to talk. Because if one person on that level validates and normalizes mental health, boy, can he save lives. That speech alone can save Thousands, if not many more lives.

Thank you for sharing. I hadn't heard that Imagine Dragons story, but now I want to do a little bit of a dive into that. That's, that's very powerful. I agree. I love when especially celebrities of a certain status share vulnerably stories like that. It's so cool. I'm really— I'd love to know, why do you think people Why do you think there's so many people that struggle with substance abuse today? And it seems like— I don't know, I don't know what the stats are, but it seems like more and more people, or at least more and more people are talking about it or coming forward of struggling with these different substances, whether it's alcohol or something extreme like heroin. Why do you think there's so many people that struggle with substance abuse today?

I'm sitting here today with Ken Rusk, who has done hundreds of millions of dollars in business. He's also sold tens of thousands of books and changed countless lives. We're sitting here today because he is sponsoring today's episode. So Ken, tell everybody about your course. Well, thank you. I built a course called The Path to a Successful Life. It's designed around trying to get somebody unstuck. You know, sometimes you're feeling like you're kind of stuck in where you are and you're not really sure what you want your life to look like or how to go about getting it. Well, for the cost of about dinner and a movie and maybe the time you'd spend on a weekend, you can know exactly what you want your future to look like and how to go about getting it. You know the power of vision. That's why you watch podcasts like this. So click the link below, get signed up, and let me know what your experience is like.

Various reasons, and a great question to ask, Luke, and it's a very pervasive one, is first and foremost, the first thing that comes to my mind is accessibility, right? The accessibility is, is there. We have alcohol that's legal. Now we have marijuana that's legal, and in many forms, edibles to to vaping. It is so accessible. There's no screening, as you may know. You can order, a child can order edible THC brownies and it gets delivered on their front door. Fentanyl is a huge issue where people are dying and we think it's only people who use fentanyl, they die of overdose. Those are lots of growing increase of accidental overdoses, right? That someone comes across and they, They die from it and it takes very, very little to be able to succumb to dying from fentanyl overdose. But accessibility is definitely one of them, one of the issues. And just the way they've transmission, like I said, through mail, through other means. And then now with technology, there's so many variants of substances, right? You can, there's so much, so many different substances out there that you can create synthetics, I do think on one level, right, among other family issues where social family issues where pervasive substance use and genetics, I also do believe this is one of my general conclusions based on the people I've worked with. I do believe, at least for America, is our threshold for discomfort and pain is quite low, the ceiling point. So what happens when we are uncomfortable, right? We want to relieve that pain. And what works, usually a substance, very quickly. And so I, if you recall in my book, the reason why people use substances, first and foremost, because it works. They wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work for what it was originally intended. But over time, you get tolerant, it becomes counterproductive, dysfunctional. And so I think, I think that's why alternatives to coping, mindfulness skills, meditation, therapy, prayer, exercise, having intention and purpose are really, really critical protective factors to resorting to substance use.

Uh, you just mentioned that in America today, our average threshold for discomfort is pretty low. Uh, one of the ways that you've intentionally expanded your threshold for discomfort is jiu-jitsu. So talk to us a little bit about your jiu-jitsu experience and then maybe draw a parallel to this book. I mean, how are the two related?

Okay, well, thank you for asking that as well. And what I— and that's been an increasing topic that has gotten a lot of interest when people find out about me. And so I'm more than happy and proud to talk about that along with my book and mental health. But for your listeners out there, what I also like to do is— some people aren't aware what it is. So jiu-jitsu means gentle art, and it was originally created in Japan. And brought over, popularized in Brazil. And so it is a— it was— it's a martial art that is designed for the smaller, weaker person to be able to manage or defeat a stronger, bigger person, and through submission and grappling moves. And so it has a mixture of judo in it, and it has a mixture of wrestling and grappling, and then submission tactics on the ground. Because a lot of times, if you're going to be attacked or bullied or assaulted, you will end up on that ground. And so that's why increasing numbers of police officers and security personnel are engaging in it. And so number one, it's really huge for the mental part and on physical, mind, and spiritual. It's the best health, physically fit I've ever been in my life, both mentally and physically. And so the reason why you mentioned that with mental health is I believe there are a lot of metaphors parallel of jiu-jitsu and our well-being is because The mats do represent a metaphor is because every day it's a martial art where you're uncomfortable and put in uncomfortable positions and your job is to leverage and become solution-focused. So not one role ever is exactly the same. You can have someone who's strong, someone who's flexible, someone who's inflexible but very agile, but very powerful. And so, and it's this— they call it the mental chess game because you are programming your brain to learn something new every single time you roll or do something, learn something different, or roll with another person. And so I do believe that a lot of metaphors is because putting yourself in uncomfortable situations is critical to people's mental health, is that's what we do. I unfortunately, I, you know, the marriage Percentage in our country isn't great and I believe on some levels when something's uncomfortable, we bail. You know, we check out whether it be a job— oh man, the jobs— a friendship, a romantic relationship and I believe there's legitimate reasons sometimes where we just have to disconnect from that but I think there's a lot of room for us to navigate through discomfort and come up with solutions and so that's one of the biggest parallels I find with jiu-jitsu and mental health.

When you talk about, you know, you're talking about this, Americans especially, and I agree with you, have a hard time being uncomfortable. What is something that you would tell maybe someone that you're, you're coaching or somebody that you're with, a client, um, a patient of yours? What is something that you tell them? Maybe they're struggling with substance abuse. What is something you tell them to do, like, initially to start getting comfortable with discomfort?

Yeah, well, number one, we got to stop demonizing things, right? Demonizing things like anxiety, anger, you know, discomfort. That's what we do. Anxiety in our culture, what I see is bad, get rid of it. And we've, we've demonized it as this really, really bad thing. And we don't realize all the things that we endure, it's survival-linked, right? Anxiety, low to moderate levels of anxiety Has— is necessary for survival, right? So for a job interview, low to moderate levels of anxiety makes you prepare. For me, you know, I have a fight next week, a jiu-jitsu tournament. You know, that level of anxiety of getting submitted or losing is what makes me work out even harder. You know, seeing a brown bear walk towards you 50 yards away, a little bit of anxiety would say, move away from the bear, not towards it, right? And so there's a survival. So that's one thing I would tell clients is we have to stop demonizing or putting these very, very harsh labels to things like an emotion. It's data. That's one, one thing. And then I would encourage them is to slowly move towards that center of discomfort, because when you move away from something, the more powerful it gets, right? And that, if you're familiar with phobias, in vivo exposure. In vivo exposure is like a live exposure. You gradually expose yourself to that triggering event where it's like a ladder where you maintain a level of control of yourself mentally and physically so you can move towards interacting with that triggering, anxiety-provoking object, person, place, or situation. So yes, so that's hugely critical. to move towards discomfort.

It's so interesting you say phobias. I have been scared. I don't, I don't know if I'd call it a phobia exactly, but I've been scared of spiders for a very long time. And in the last year, I've realized like, okay, I've got— I'm just kind of trying to expose myself slowly to spiders. And one of the ways I've done that is I've put, um, on the background of my phone, I put a picture of a spider. And it's crazy, but like, when I initially had that, I would like fear opening my phone, even though it's just a picture. And I know it's just a picture. And I know I'm safe. So it's really interesting. You can do it in a very safe way. So I appreciate you bringing that up. And it's, it's funny how you— what did you just say? When we push something away, we get even more scared of it. Like we make that thing almost bigger than it actually is.

Yes. Because, because Carl Jung, he was a psychiatrist as well. He said, whatever you resist persists. And it's true. Right? Whenever we resist, we have to acknowledge and let it come through. Whether it be angry and grief, we got to give permission. What happens, I think, where substance is— substance are the sophisticated tool to kind of quiet that down and cut it out of our life. And you can never cut it out of our life. That's why I think a lot of people use substances is because it quiets that down, but it never, it never gets rid of it. It's part of— it's a footnote of your life, whatever that event or event, tragic issue had happened. It's a footnote, it's not going to be this all-encompassing thing, but it's a footnote of your life, good or bad experiences. What happened to you yesterday is a part of your life for the rest of your life, some things more consequential than not. And so yes, absolutely. And hopefully you get over the fear of spiders, but you're doing the right thing, right, is, is exactly that.

So slowly but surely, I'll get there.

I'll make sure next time, Luke, you're over my house, we do some painting or something on the exterior of the home, you'll realize how many spiders are out there. And then you'll get slowly desensitized to them. Um, Dr. Brian, to pivot back to your book for a moment, if somebody's tuning in today because they saw the title of your book or they looked you up and they're looking for an introduction to the book, maybe a couple of tools or strategies, maybe some of the must-knows that you highlight in the book for helping a loved one get the treatment that they need, can you offer a few things, maybe a little introduction to the book?

Yeah. And so the book is essentially a, a skills guide. It provides— the way the book is broken up, at least in the core meat of it, is the 25 must-knows. 25 must-knows, I believe, in the hundreds of families and clients that I've worked with over the years, are the— what I believe the most basic fundamental knowledge is that anyone should know. You could be first time going through this, maybe just got diagnosed. You could have been someone navigating through this for decades. You could be family members who are brand new to it or well-versed. You could be a clinician or an educator yourself. It is, I think, the most foundational knowledge. And what I do a lot of the 25 Must-Knows also is this clarification of concepts that a lot of family members that I find misinterpret them, concepts such as tough love. Is well-meaning. But in my book, I write some— a lot of families I've encountered take that as tough luck, right? We're done with you. Get well. Contact us when you're sober. And you can imagine someone who's struggling with depression, even suicidality and hopelessness, that where that could lead them, you know. And so things like that— enabling. Enabling is another thing I talk about in the community out there. When we look at enabling as a curse word, enabling is not. It comes from a place of love. That's what we do when our loved ones are struggling, we comfort them. But that perpetuates a problematic behavior, right? If someone loses 10 jobs in a year because of their cocaine use, right, and we still give them money or jobs, where's the motivation to get sober or make changes? And so a lot of those are some of the must-know knowledges. I also look at the disease as a separate entity to a point where I personify it as this entity that we have to manage and control. It's always in the corner doing push-ups. I also talk about the 80/20 model, right? 80% of why someone struggles is legitimate and valid. They have traumas in their life, family dysfunction, substance abuse, a medical issue. That 20% of the disease is the barrier to getting to that 80%, and I call it the manipulation side— the blaming, the gaslighting, the lying, the using sex, money, that's a 20% that the families need to shut down because that's what's preventing their loved ones from staying stuck and engaging in the same pattern of behavior. And then the last part of it, uh, last 2 parts of it are 12 steps. 12 steps, not the AA 12 steps, but it just so happens it turns out to be 12 steps where families have to use, where they accept the unified vision, accept the need to change, how to contact police officers if there's a mental health issue, how to set boundaries and limits, what dialogue do you use. And lastly, along with I differentiate what I find as a strong versus a weaker recovery program. What are the elements that are most robust and present? Things like honesty, being humble, spirituality. And spirituality doesn't also mean a higher power. It could mean just have a higher intention and purpose in life. And fellowship are important. So that's the book in a nutshell. But it is a strategy guide. And I tried to write it in a simple form that anyone of any age can read it and understand it.

We interviewed an author a few months ago named Robbie Fakhoury, who wrote a book called Life's Lie— Life, Lies, and Second Chances. And in his book and on the podcast interview, he was very transparent. He struggled with a whole host of addictions, and he talked about the length that he would go to lie to his family to—

Yeah.

guide them in other directions, to sort of, um, you know, pull a cloth over their head, whatever the saying is, like, he was lying. Um, can you talk about, like, if there's somebody in the audience today and they have a family member who's struggling and constantly lying about the addiction or the substance abuse, what are ways that you can start that conversation?

Yeah, yeah. And, and as you recall, you know, um, the honesty is part of what I call the antidote to this disease. That if you're high in every single one of these, and honesty is the first one, that nearly guarantee you, you'll be successful for the rest of your life. Because whenever I work with people or interview people who are successful, they're high in every single one of those factors. And people who struggle are deficient in one or more of those. But honesty is the first impetus to change, being honest with yourself and others. Because if you're not honest, you're harboring secrets. Those secrets turn into resentments, which are unresolved anger. And resentments almost always, no matter what, turn back on yourself. But what I would tell families is put down the tug-of-war rope. That's what happens a lot. Like, your job isn't to find out what's truth or not. Did you use— no, no, you didn't. You, you, you know, I, I saw you, or you're acting funny, and they engage in that battle. And that's where you want to put down that tug-of-war rope. What I talk about is some of the language you use is to validate, means to acknowledge someone's truth, is, hey, we care about you, we're here to help you. It's just that what we're doing hasn't been helping, right? When we, we, we are here for you, we're just not going to support this lifestyle any longer. And so what that does is puts them in a direction where they're going to hopefully get better and start to find that how honesty is necessary, needed through therapy, through some type of support group. And so that's where a lot of families struggle, is they become the investigators, they become the judges. And that's where the power struggle continues to perpetuate. And so put that away and just keep it very simple that this is what we're going to be a part of and not be a part of. And that is what I call assertive love or healthy boundary setting, is being very clear of what I'm going to participate and not participate in.

Do you ever find that the family wants the person to heal more than the person themselves want to heal. Hello, Book Thinkers family. We are on a mission to change people's lives for the better, and we believe that the right book at the right time can change your life. And the only way we can impact more lives is with your help. If a book has changed your life for the better, I wanted to ask you a quick favor. Could you please take a few seconds and leave a review of our show? Because if you're like us, you want to change not only your life, but others' lives as well. And by you leaving a review of our show, it spreads the word about all of these life-changing books And does just that. We greatly appreciate your help. By reaching more people, you help us change more lives. Thank you so much for your time. And now back to the show.

You get— you get a lot of dynamics. What's ironic is I worked in residential treatment for quite some time, and I don't think they'd ever explicitly say it, but family members who have been navigating through this struggle for decades, let's say, for dealing with a child, a teen or adult child is when they get sober, their worth— for so long, their, their self-worth has been so much for so many years working with their struggling loved one. They got validation from that recognition and neededness. And so they would never say, we don't want you to get healthy. But there goes a transition, identity shift in someone who's been struggling for a long time with depression, anxiety. It's an identity shift for them that this is— I literally have people as, I don't want to get rid of my depression or anxiety because that's all I know, right? There's a— you can get comfortable in a way of life and being, and I don't want to give up my alcohol, but because they believe that's the only way they can survive, and that's where the unhealthy thinking part is. But, but absolutely, you know, that's, that's definitely that struggle. But definitely don't get into that power struggle because that disease, that's what it wants. It likes to bifurcate the family. It wants to fracture the family and isolate them one-on-one. And that's why that unified vision is critically important. That's how you disempower that disease.

Would you— I loved, uh, your explanation of disease in your book. Would you mind breaking that down a little bit, like how you define disease? Yeah, yeah.

And so, so there's no unifying definition of disease in the medical model, right? There really isn't, even in psychology, psychiatry. But I take it a step further, is a disease is any entity or entities— that could be a person, place, situation, or thing— that's been chronic, meaning long-lasting, and causes impairment in an area or areas of our life. So in that sense, we all have a version of a disease. Okay, a disease of course can be diabetes, hypertension, alcoholism, depression, post-traumatic stress, bipolar disorder, cancer. But disease can be things like racism if that causes problems in your life. Jealousy, hedonism, which is this seeking pleasure, materialism, which is seeking, you know, materialistic things. That's your version of your disease. So therefore, we all have a version of a disease. Therefore, we're all in some form of recovery. The first thing we think of recovery is, oh my gosh, you know, what medical condition did you suffer, or what subs you struggling with? And recovery is just an intentional plan in place for healthier living. And so we're all in some form of recovery. And I do believe that when we maximize and have the best quality type of recovery, we're presenting our best self forward. And I do believe honestly that all of our life's answers can come from— we try to bring it back to our recovery because of what recovery entails: honesty, humility, open direction, fellowship, and all those other attributes.

Uh, as, as we're getting towards the end of the show today— and by the way, you've provided a lot of value and insight, and you know, I've already given my testimonial a couple of times on social media for this book, but I think for the right person, this is the solution. It's the guide. Uh, as we get ready to wrap things up, and I know Luke will have a couple more questions after I ask this one, what's your message to somebody who just feels stuck? They've tried a lot and they're just not making progress. What's the message?

Yeah, the message. And, and back to, if I may, back to the book is because what I wanted to communicate also Is that a lot of times families think it's only for families who have loved ones struggling, but there's a lot of knowledge in there for someone individually who's struggling and who wants to maintain a long-term recovery. And so, so it really is useful. And sometimes it's designed there for adults because there's certain interventions that you can't do for adolescents. However, some of the skills and interventions on some level with modification can be used for someone of that younger age or a minor. Also, the book says how to get your resisting loved one to treatment. And sometimes a lot of people think treatment is, oh, well, residential treatment, they have to go to a facility. And sometimes things like affordability, cost, accessibility isn't there. But it's also meaning how to get your resisting loved one to a place where they just accept help. Doesn't necessarily mean treatment per se. And treatment doesn't have to be go to a certain clinic.

Some some religions have their own methodology for getting through that, or some type of of of modality. And so just know that treatment can mean a lot of different things, and most importantly, getting that person to a place where they accept help. So, Nick, what was your question? Yeah, and I'll I'll comment on that first, and then I'll ask my question. So I think books are a great form of accepting help, and they're not very invasive because a book can be read. Your own pace in the comfort of your own home in privacy. You can go through it at your own pace. And I think a lot of times gifting a book like this to somebody and allowing them to self-pace through it could be a great way of saying, I'm looking to help you, I don't want to be too pushy, but I think that this book could, could help you in a major way. So yeah, I love that it's, it's written like that. And I do agree it's for families, but it's also for somebody who might be struggling themselves. So my question was, if there's somebody in the audience today that has a resisting loved one, got it, and they're just feeling stuck, what's your message for that person?

My message for them— yes, I, as you were talking, I remembered your question. So my biggest thing is have hope. I've worked with a lot of dysfunctional, toxic, chaotic families and people struggling. The reality is I've worked with people who attempted suicide 48 hours before coming into clinic, someone who's having a psychotic episode because they've used too much of a substance and they're hearing voices, to people who are homeless, who committed a felony crime. And even those— is that this disease can fracture the best of families. But the recovery process, and I've seen it over, has brought families closer together because of what it requires. It requires everybody in that intimate unit to do their part, right? To work 100% on their share of responsibility. Because it's not about who did what. If we're all invested, we have to assume an equal share of responsibility, work 100%. Because there's a saying, you didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it, but you've perpetuated it in some form or fashion. And so that's one thing, Nick, I want to tell family members and individuals is have hope, right? You can be at the most bottom of feeling helpless and hopeless, but The process really does work. Asking for help, reaching out. The first thing you got to do is you got to tell on yourself. You got to say, I need help. I can't do this anymore. And that's the biggest message I want to tell people. There's solutions. You just got to look for it. And there's people willing to help you.

This has been such an amazing episode. I have 2 more questions that I'll ask you. And the first is, where can people go to find out a little bit more about you? And we'll make sure we link all of it in the show notes.

Sure, sure.

Well, I have a website. It's drbrianlaquanen.com. You will find a little bit about me, my practice, my book, and all of my media appearances. TV shows, podcasts, articles are featured there. I'm also on Instagram at Dr. Laquanen and on TikTok at Dr. Laquanen as well. So those are some of the ways you can definitely find me. And I'm trying to post mental health shorts every week to help. I'll probably clip Some— we have some great conversations today, a jiu-jitsu one for sure I'll clip, and then of course the mental health ones.

Amazing. Well, we'll make sure we send everyone there. And don't worry, people, it will be spelled out in the, in the show notes. When I was looking at your name, I was like, oh, McQuannan. I don't know if anybody could quite spell that, but thankfully we have technology to be able to do that. All right, my final question for you, Dr. Brian, is this: if you pass away and all the information that you put out, the books, courses, everything, the speaking gigs, whatever you've done, disappears, but you can leave the world with a single piece of advice, what would it be?

Save the good one for last. My, my one is find your intention and purpose and be an impact person. That's what happened to me when Dr. Michael Mumford came to me, and that realization is how to find my impact every day. Right, is how to impact on a bigger scale through what are my intention and purpose and goals in life. And that to me has been my driving force. This is the things that I love, is because I know hopefully I'm impacting someone, whether it be one person at a time, on a grander scale. And that gives me my drive and purpose, and it gives me the hope in ourselves and humanity in and of itself. So that would be my biggest takeaway.

That's beautiful. I think another book needs to be written on that.

That's a—

it's such a great perspective though. I love the impact. That's amazing. Anyway, I won't keep you any longer. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been a blast. I know we could have talked for another couple hours probably and just listening to you. You've been great.

Thank you both.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, Please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.