205. Robin Sharma | The Wealth Money Can't Buy

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have pleasure to interview the legendary Robin Sharma, author of many books including The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, The 5 AM Club, and his most recent, The Wealth Money Can't Buy. Robin worked as a litigation lawyer until the age of 25 when he self-published Mega Living, a book on stress management and spirituality. But he became widely known for his second book, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, which he self-published in 1997. After his second book became successful, he was able to quit his career as a lawyer and become a full-time writer. And we are certainly grateful for that. Robin has published 12 other books and founded the training company Sharma Leadership International. Robin is now widely considered one of the world's top leadership and personal development advisors. His clients include famed billionaires, professional sports superstars, and many Fortune 100 companies. We also have so much respect for Robin as a humanitarian who for over a quarter of a century has been devoted to helping human beings realize their native gifts. In this episode, you'll learn about his latest book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, about the importance of meditation and having daily practices, about the 8 forms of wealth and how it's not all about money, what success actually is and how anyone can attain it, why you need to surround yourself with the right people, and understanding that we see the world not as it is, but as we are. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Robin Sharma.

Robin Sharma, welcome back to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books podcast. Today we are here to focus on your newest book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy: The 8 Hidden Habits to Live Your Richest Life. And I'd like to kick off by having you talk a little bit about the boy in the perfect home with the windows of pure gold. I thought that was a wonderful way to start the book, and I'd love to have you tell everybody about why you chose to start the book that way and maybe what the story is.

There was a boy who wanted to live a beautiful life. And for most of his childhood, he saw this magnificent house up on a lofty hill. And he would say to himself in his quieter moments, one day I'm going to visit that home, maybe even live in it. And for most of his childhood, this was his dream. As he got older, He packed up and headed towards this magnificent home on the magical hill. And he traveled for days and days, weeks and weeks, until he eventually found this house. But once he got there, he realized that it was an old house, broken windows. The place was a mess. And through an optical illusion from where he was, what he saw from afar was this piece of magic when in reality it was very empty. And that's really in the introduction of The Wealth Money Can't Buy, because our society has in many ways told us, you make a lot of money, you get a lot of things, you are going to be wealthy and happy. But it makes me think of what Jim Carrey once said, I wish everyone could be rich and famous to realize it doesn't make a difference. I need to say the 5th form of wealth in the book is money. Of course, it's important, but when it becomes our master versus our servant, and when we identify ourselves and define ourselves by our material things, I think we lose inner peace and a lot of happiness.

So, Robin, I'm curious how you keep this perspective and how you stay in touch with what the masses are thinking, because at this point, you've been a successful author. and thought leader for a number of years now. I imagine you don't worry about money. You're not a servant to money on a daily basis or anything like that. But clearly, when you look at social media kind of from a high level, people are still struggling with this problem. So why did you decide to write about this? Maybe who was telling you that this is still a problem they're facing that kind of inspired the story?

Well, I, I just think people are under a lot of pressure. For a lot of reasons. We live in a world of polycrisis right now. And I think people are a lot of pressure, especially from social media, because it's almost like, okay, I guess I'm not winning because I don't have the things I'm seeing people showing on social media. I'm not eating in the right places. I'm not driving the right cars. I'm not on private jets. I don't have all these material things. I guess I'm not winning. But in the book, I explain and offer very humbly this model, the 8 forms of wealth. You know, integrity is more valuable than money. You have a great home life connection with people you love. That's worth more than all the gold in the world. The second form of wealth in the book, health. Health is wealth, and often health is something we take for granted until we lose it. So, many of us have these forms of true wealth and real riches right in front of us that we don't acknowledge because we've been programmed by society to think wealth and winning is money, material things, social position, social media likes, etc.

So, Robin, I'm curious, outside of reading your book, what is your What are the top things that you tell people to do to kind of start transforming their mindset around wealth? Because like you said, we have all these societal pressures. We look on Instagram, we're scrolling every day, and it's like, oh, these people are happy. And yet we fail to look around us and see what we actually do have. So what are some of the tips that you give people when they come and ask you, hey man, I feel like I don't have enough? What are the tips that you give people to start changing their mindset?

It's a great question and it's a big question. There's a few things I would say. Oscar Wilde said, be yourself, everyone else is taken. So that'd be my first reply, Luke. Second thing I would say, success on society's terms while losing yourself in the process is not victory, it's tragedy. Find your own score, your own scoreboard. If the world says, oh, you know, winning is social media likes and being in the right restaurants, etc., take some time alone. What a concept. Spend some time in solitude. Write in a journal every morning. Take an hour-long morning walk in nature and start asking yourself some of the big questions. What are the values most important to me? What lights me up? Because when you do what lights you up, it lights up Here's another question to ask yourself in your journaling or your meditation. On the last hour of my last day, how will I have wished I will have lived for me to feel I lived a great life? Another tool, MVP. MVP in sports circles is most valuable player. In my methodology, MVP is meditation, visualization, and prayer. We can get into the dynamics of it, but meditating, visualizing, and praying for even 20 minutes every morning will introduce you to who you truly are. Are in your highest self so you live your life versus society's life. And the final thing, just to bring value to all your listeners, and by the way, Nick and Luke, I want to celebrate you at Book Thinkers for everything that you do. And I mean that very sincerely, turning people on to books and reading. You know, education is inoculation against disruption. The leader who learns the most wins. I love your feed. I love what you do. I need to recognize you for that. So the final tool I'd offer to Book Thinkers Followers. It's called the 5 Question Morning Maximizer. This will help you figure out how to live your best life. In your journaling, answer 5 questions every morning. Number 1, what am I grateful for? We all know that gratitude is the antidote to fear. Number 2, write a paragraph. Where am I winning? Because the human brain focuses on where we're losing. It's the negativity bias. This will protect your hope, give you energy and momentum. Number 3, what will I let go of today? Very powerful question. You forgive the unforgiven. That releases energy, creativity, productivity. Number 4, what does my ideal day ahead look like? Because creativity breeds mastery. And number 5, what needs to be said at the end? You write a paragraph about what you want said about you on the last day of your life. That allows you to live to the point so you're not busy being busy and you get the important things done.

So much value. Thank you so much for sharing, Robin. That, those questions are amazing and a great way to just reframe your day. I love that. Now, I, getting into, you have this concept in the book and it's PENAM. Can you talk a little bit about that? And we can explore that in the book a little bit, and maybe we can ask some more questions pertaining to that.

I'm sitting here today with Ken Rusk, who has done hundreds of millions of dollars in business. He's also sold tens of thousands of books and changed countless lives. We're sitting here today because he is sponsoring today's episode. So Ken, tell everybody about your course.

Well, thank you. I built a course called The Path to a Successful Life. It's designed around trying to get somebody unstuck. You know, sometimes you're feeling like you're kind of stuck in where you are and you're not really sure what you want your life to look like or how to go about getting it. Well, for the cost of about dinner and a movie and maybe the time you'd spend on a weekend, you can know exactly what you want your future to look like. And how to go about getting it.

You know the power of vision. That's why you watch podcasts like this. So, click the link below, get signed up, and let me know what your experience is like.

Absolutely. Starting principle might be we see the world not as it is, we see the world as we are. I better repeat that again because I think it'll be valuable. We wake up and we think we see the world. No, we don't see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. We see it through a perceptual filter. through a lens of our programs and our beliefs that we've picked up from the world. There are 5 forces, that's PENM, 5 forces that I share in that chapter of The Wealth Money Can't Buy. The P in PENM stands for our parents. Our parents are our earliest teachers. If they say money doesn't grow on trees, don't trust the world, be like everyone else, don't dream too big, you're not smart enough, That shapes the way we see the world. The E in PENIM is our environment. Our environment, our workspaces, the people we follow online, the magazines we read, the books we expose ourselves to, has a profound impact on our creativity and our performance, on our self-belief, our confidence, and the way we live. The N in PENIM, the third force that shapes us profoundly, is the nation we live in. If you live in a war-torn country, a country with a lot of collective trauma, you won't be able to see the opportunities unless you do the inner work required. The A in PENUM are associations. We become our conversations. That's why I love books like you. Aristotle— Plato, excuse me— said it very well: a home full of books is a home with soul. I think reading a book is having a conversation with the author. If you read the right books, their stardust rubs off on you. So, the A is your associations, the conversations you have with people. The science— Nicholas Christakis at Harvard University said we are influenced. His research has found we are influenced not just by our friends, but get this, the friends of our friends and the friends of our friends' friends. So, get your associations right. Strip out the energy vampires. Build your life with people whose lives you want to be living. And the M is media, social media, advertising, television. Invisibly and subtly, media shapes the way we see the world and either causes us to be victims or leaders.

I love this. I love this framework, Robin. And I'm curious, for somebody in the audience that's listening and they go, okay, associations, the friends of my friends, I mean, that seems like something that's a little hard to control or change. Do you have any recommendations for people as they're looking to upgrade their associations?

Don't be a victim. I hear one of the chapters in the book is I'll Try. Well, and what I say in that chapter is I'll Try are 2 swear words. I'll Try means I'm not invested. I'll Try means I don't believe in myself. I'll Try means I'm not willing to put in the sweat equity to get the job done. So, I hear people say that, Nick. I do understand. People say, I do understand that energy vampires and dream stealers are deeply affecting my inner peace and my joyfulness and my optimism and my creativity, my productivity. But that person is my best friend. And what I would say is, don't be a victim. You can tell a victim a mile away because they have recited their excuses so many times. They've hypnotized themselves into believing they are true. How do you become a leader or a hero versus a victim? You take your power back from the things you're making excuses about. And so if it's, oh, if this is my best friend and he's now toxic or she's toxic or bringing me down, well, I would simply say love them from afar. Or rather than hanging out with them and chatting with them every day, do it once a week. And sometimes you'll have to do a hard red line and say goodbye to that person. And just remember, reason, season, lifetime. Some people come into our life for a reason. Some people come into a life for a season, and a few people get to stay with us for an entire lifetime. But you only get one life as far as I can tell. And so get rid of the people who are bringing you down.

I think I might clip that and send that to a few people in my network who have those commonly recited excuses for why some people need to stay in their life. And, uh, but I love your advice and I think that's very profound. I'll ask one more question about the PENM framework. The M in media, I've realized over the last couple of years that social media, it can be a very positive and constructive place depending on who you follow and what you choose to consume. And I recommend that people audit their social media feeds as often as they can. And anytime you come across a video that creates a feeling of divisiveness or maybe stirs a negative emotion, unfollow that account. And you can actually, especially on Instagram, you can hold down and say, I'm not interested. in this profile or this type of content. But Robin, what types of media do you consume? And maybe give some practices around how to audit or remove negative media.

Well, you know what I would say, Nick, is use joy as your GPS. And I talked about that. There was a framework that I taught in The 5 AM Club on that. But trust your joy. And if Trust how you feel when you look at a post of someone. If it brings you down or bothers you, well then, you know, you have the option to stop following that person. Second thing I'd say is remember the IPOP principle. Input positivity and you'll output positivity and productivity. And then, the third thing I would say is technology and social media is a fantastic servant and it's a terrible master. So I like art. I follow art feeds. I follow book thinkers because I am a huge, huge, huge book lover. One of the acronyms in The Wealth Money Can't Buy is BABEL, which is Book Accumulation Beyond Lifetime Expectancy. I think a lot of your followers and viewers and I'm sure you too buy more books than you'll ever read, and I think that's a beautiful thing. So fill your library with unread books. I think it just speaks to promise. I follow some feeds on business. I follow some feeds on spirituality and metaphysics. I follow some feeds on history. I learn a lot from social media, but I try to be extraordinarily careful. I have Friday, my zero device day, my digital Sabbath. I turn my phone off for 24 hours. So, I have these different habits that really help me leverage technology versus allowing it to invade and destroy my focus, my productivity, my life.

Yeah. If you don't curate your algorithm, it will run you. And I tell people that like all the time, you have to be so careful about what you're liking, who you're following, and you have to— and the crazy part is that algorithm will actually work for you. So, you can get it to work for you by following the proper accounts. So, I love that advice. It's so good. Now, Robin, I'm also curious about how your routines, your habits have changed since writing The 5 AM Club. Like, what are you doing now versus what you did then? Are you still very rigid about your mornings? Like, how is that looking today?

Well, you know, Luke, I was never very rigid. About my routines. Someone once said to me at a live event, "Let planning be your springboard so spontaneity can be your splash." I spoke to a client a little while ago. He said every day he has, I think it was 34 items on his checklist that he needed to do for it to be a great day. I'm not judging; I'm just reporting. I'm not. I'm just saying that seems like a lot, like a lot of pressure to put on yourself. I trust my body. If I need a little bit more sleep, I take a little bit more sleep. But for I'd say twenty plus years, I was up most days at five. How have my habits changed? I think four a.m. is the new five a.m. And I know you guys are probably shaking your heads, and a lot of your viewers are. But For the past year or so, I've been getting up at— I live on a farm and I get up at 4:00 AM and I listen to the dogs barking and the roosters crowing. And I spend 45 minutes roughly in MVP, meditation, visualization, and prayer. And that wasn't a Freudian thing, by the way, when I did prayer. But I have to say, you know, we're all looking for a tool that will make us more powerful. More faithful to our ethical ambitions, more loving, more resilient, more brave, and it's MVP. It just—I want to say this: meditation, visualization, and prayer—and we can get into it if you want what it looks like—but it's just you do that for a month or two, and you get these pow—you get access to these powers. and build intimacy with gifts and talents that you didn't even know. So, the 4:00 AM has worked really well for me. And then I start my workout at 5:00. For many years, I'd sleep at 11:00. For decades, I'd sleep at 11:00 PM. But I've realized that if I want to get up at 4:00 AM, I can't sleep at 11:00 AM. So, it's Ben Franklin's early to bed, early to rise. And it's worked incredibly well for me. I've calibrated my pre-sleep ritual a lot. So, that's another change. No digital 3 hours before I sleep. Nice hot bath, etc., etc. Those would be some of the habits. Oh, a 15-minute nature walk before I start work every morning works incredibly well. The 5 Question Morning Maximizer, those 5 questions I shared, that's a new habit. Oh, last question, just to bring super value. First thought positive. As soon as you get up, first thought, make it positive.

Yeah, there's so many great takeaways. We have a client of ours, he's an author, runs a billion-dollar company that he built, and he says meditation is what makes him such a fierce business warrior. And that's stuck in my head a little bit. So let's dive into the MVP, Robin, with a little bit more detail because we love to make things as actionable as possible. Could you describe what your MVP process looks like? What form of meditation, visualization, and prayer do you currently engage in?

Sure. You know, a number of years ago, I was on a business show with a very famous television personality. And I talked about leadership and elite performance and productivity. And then I talked about meditation and he jumped all over me. And it's fine. It's not like I'm— but I thought it was interesting. He said, okay, so my stock portfolio is falling apart and you expect me to meditate? Well, a lot of great science has come out now talking about how when we meditate, it does build resilience and steadiness. Makes me think of what Gandhi once said. He said, I have a lot to— I have much to accomplish today. Therefore, I must meditate 2 hours rather than 1. So, what does it look like to be tactical for your followers? I might do out of the 45 minutes from 4 to 4:45. My meditation might be a body scan where I'll notice what's going on in my body. And the more you do this, the more you'll get to know, oh, my chest is tight. That's some fear. If you breathe into it, do some breathwork, you can release it. It's very, very powerful. Some of my meditation might be breathwork in terms of I'll breathe in bravery, exhale insecurity. I might do that for 5 minutes. I might breathe in peacefulness and steadiness, exhale busyness. That might go on. That's what my meditation might look like. Then I'll go to visualization. I have a term called the 4 Beautiful Projects. Every 90 days, I take on 4 big, beautiful projects. I'll actually visualize myself as if those 4 beautiful projects were done at my ideal, the way I wanted them to happen. And I just kind of simmer and I just kind of lay and see the pictures in colors. I inhabit those images. And it's lots of science on the power of visualization. Athletes do it. But I see myself as if those 4 beautiful projects were accomplished exactly the way I wanted them to. And then the final element of MVP is prayer. If you're not religious, then call it scientific prayer because science has confirmed praying really works. If you're religious, then call it religious prayer. The real idea is I pray for my elderly parents so they live long, healthy lives. I pray for the rest of my family. I pray for my team because they're like my family. Nick and Luke, I pray for my clients because one of the traps of success is you forget who puts food on the family table. And by praying every morning while the world is asleep for my clients and my readers from around the world who allow me to write these books, 31 years in the game, it reminds me who I work for. I pray for my projects. I pray for strength. I pray for a safer world. That's what MVP looks like.

It's such a beautiful thing. And I think so many people can value from starting their day that way. I've picked up meditation on and off over the years, but I've been way more consistent with it over the last 3 to 4 months. Well, it's maybe been longer than that. It may have been like the last 6 months, honestly. But the change in myself and the way I show up for my family is Powerful. So anybody listening that has— that doesn't have that practice in place, it is so, so important. I love that you do that, Robin. It's, it's so amazing. Would you say that if you could only keep one of your rituals, one of your practices, that would be the one that you would keep if you had to get rid of all the others? Hello, Book Thinkers family. We are on a mission to change people's lives for the better, and we believe that the The right book at the right time can change your life, and the only way we can impact more lives is with your help. If a book has changed your life for the better, I wanted to ask you a quick favor. Could you please take a few seconds and leave a review of our show? Because if you're like us, you want to change not only your life but others' lives as well. And by you leaving a review of our show, it spreads the word about all of these life-changing books and does just that. We greatly appreciate your help. By reaching more people, you help us change more lives. Thank you so much for your time. And now back to the show.

Well, there's, there's, there's a bunch. The victory hour, getting up at 4 a.m. or 5 a.m. and spending time doing the MVP and exercising and reading and journaling is very powerful. The 5 Great Hour Rule that I talked about in The 5 AM Club is extremely powerful because we live in a world where we confuse busy with productivity and fake work. with real work. I think I love nature walks. An hour nature walk is powerful. There's a method I talk about in The Wealth Money Can't Buy, which is the 60-minute student. Do not go to sleep unless you have read or listened to a podcast or listened to an audiobook or downloaded what you're learning in a journal for an hour. It's extraordinarily important. The leader— leaders love education, victims love entertainment. It's very easy to get trapped in entertainment in this world. So those would be a few of the rituals that are helpful to me. Go ahead.

Robin, pivoting to something else you said in the book, you said that your choice of a mate is 90% of your joy. So, I mean, yes, we have these beautiful morning routines, but we do have lives outside of the work we perform in the morning and the work we perform during the day. So, could you expand a little bit on that? I mean, Luke is married with 3 kids and a 4th on the way. I'm married with my first kid on the way. And I agree. I mean, I think my mate, my wife, is the person I spend the most time with. So anyway, I'll quit rambling and get back to the question. Why do you think that's important?

Well, let me, let me go to Macro for a moment. The Wealth Money Can't Buy is a book about the 8 forms of wealth. Our society has said wealth is cash in the bank, stock portfolio, et cetera. About 15 years, for 15+ years, I've mentored billionaires, sports superstars, entertainers, movement makers. And I created a model for them called the 8 forms of wealth because a lot of these people, And you might want to highlight this, and I say that very respectfully, but they're cash rich and they're life poor. And so, the 8 forms of wealth, once you understand and start living that model, is absolutely transformational. The 3rd form of wealth in that model I share at the beginning of the book is family. And family really is one of those things we take for granted until we lose it. And the chapter you're speaking about is Your Mate Is 90%— your choice of mate is 90% of your joy. The next chapter is the 10,000 dinners question. And I think it responds to what you're asking. Ayesha Vardag is one of the UK's top divorce lawyers. And she was asked, you know, you've seen so many relationships fall apart. What's your wisdom for a great relationship? And she said, 10,000 dinners. And the reporter said, what do you mean? And she said, well, you know, Looks fade, lust dissolves. But if you see yourself having 10,000 dinners with that person, keep them close because true love is hard to find. And that's really what your choice of mate is all about. Like, if you have a messy home life, you're not going to get anything done at work. Drama at home leads to misery at work. So finding that choice of partner who is not a addicted to drama and who vibes with you and is compatible with you, well, really is 90% of your joy, 90% of your creativity, 90% of your success.

Nick, um, I know like we were a little— we have specific time, so, um, do you have any other questions? And then I can get into kind of my final couple of questions here.

Yeah, wow, time flies when you're having fun. Robin, thank you so much for Coming on the podcast again. I have one kind of fun question. I saw that there was a testimonial from Jeezy about the book, and I was just curious, Robin, selling so many books and working with so many incredible people, are there any personalities that have surprised you? They'll reach out and say, hey, Robin, your books have changed my life, and you're like, wow, I can't believe that person on TV or that person, you know, playing on the field is a fan of my work. Do you ever get— Surprised by that anymore?

The day I don't get surprised, I think, is the day I should get out of the game. I'm a very ordinary person. I'm a blue-collar creative worker, and I'm just out to do my best work and help as many people as possible. I try not to take that too seriously. But you asked the question, Taylor Swift, You know, when I heard Taylor Swift reads my books, that was interesting. Kim Kardashian read my last book and reposted the chapter from The Everyday Hero Manifesto, 40 Things I Wish I'd Learned at 40. You mentioned Jeezy, Jon Bon Jovi, etc., etc., etc. But, you know, I think it leads to a larger point, which is Remembering the mission is mission critical. And I think the moment you start chasing shiny toys and making it about the wrong things, I think you dilute your focus and you lose. Yeah, you'll, you start losing.

Yeah, I think that's a wonderful way to respond to the question. It's humbling in a lot of ways to have these people reach out and express gratitude for your work. But at the end of the day, like you've highlighted, they are average everyday people and you're creating for everybody equally, you know, and in some cases, maybe people who are less fortunate are more important when they reach out and say, hey, you've created this massive change in my life. Maybe that's a little bit more meaningful. But anyway, thank you again so much. Luke's got a couple more questions, but we'll be posting some more thoughts about the book soon through the Book Thinkers channels and Robin, you're amazing as always.

Thanks so much, Nick. I appreciate it.

All right, Robin, these are my final 2 questions. The first is, where can people go to find out more about you? And obviously, we'll link it all in the show notes.

Sure. If anyone's interested in more of my work, I have hundreds of YouTube videos at— I guess it's on YouTube, Robin Sharma, S-H-A-R-M-A. I'm on Instagram @RobinSharma. I try to post a lot of value and Helpful videos. If people want to get on my mailing list, we hope to provide huge value and they can just go to robinsharma.com and sign up to get videos and blog posts, etc. The Wealth Money Can't Buy is in all good bookstores. It's on Amazon and Audible and all the usual places.

Beautiful. Thank you so much. All right. This is my final question that I like to ask all of our guests. And it's this: you pass away and all the information that you put out, books, courses, all the stuff you put out on YouTube and everywhere else disappears, but you can leave the world with a single piece of advice. What would it be?

Well, you know, when my dad turned 87 on Friday and when he, when I was growing up, he said, Robin, when you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die, the world cries while you rejoice. Pretty great wisdom.

Yeah, gave me goosebumps. Tell you what, thank you so much, Robin. This has been amazing. You're amazing. You gave so much value today. You always give value. I appreciate you so much. Thanks for coming on.

You're 2 wonderful people. Thanks for having me on your show.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests, or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.