236. Sara Raymond | You Are Not Broken

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Sarah Raymond, author of You Are Not Broken: A Compassionate Guide to Uncovering Inner Wisdom and Transforming Your Life with Hypnotherapy. Sarah is a certified hypnotherapist, transformational coach, and instructor in yoga, Pilates, and meditation. Since co-founding the Mindful Movement in 2016, she has helped millions embrace their inner calm, develop a positive mindset, and heal from the stress that holds them back. With over 900,000 subscribers on YouTube, her work has become an oasis for those seeking true transformation. In today's conversation, we'll explore how hypnotherapy works, why so many people misunderstand it, and how you can use it to break free from limiting beliefs. Sarah shares the science behind hypnosis, the power of suggestion, and how our subconscious mind shapes our reality. If you're interested in personal growth, mindfulness, or breaking through mental barriers, this episode is for you. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Sarah Raymond.

Sarah, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. I'm excited to chat with you today, and I wanted to start with something that you wrote on page 30 of your book. You talked about your first hypnotherapy appointment. And I want to bring you back to that moment, and I'd like to have you kind of tell us, what did that feel like? Why did you pursue that appointment? What did you know about hypnotherapy at the time? And what was the outcome of that first experience?

Sure. I didn't know much about it, really. I had just heard stories from my mom in particular. She had used hypnosis Twice, I think, in two different scenarios. One was around quitting smoking, which you know who knows how many years later she's still not a smoker. So that's good. But that was the thing that really worked for her. She had tried so many different ways to quit smoking, and that was the thing that worked. And then the second avenue that she went down to pursue hypnosis was weight loss. And that was a little bit of a deeper dive, I would say, with things that were happening from her past and her beliefs and that sort of thing versus just the visualization aspect of being a nonsmoker and sort of the affirmations and the suggestions that she used for the working through quitting smoking. So that's really all I knew about it. I, you know, and of course, what most people think about when they think of hypnosis is the stage hypnosis. Uh, so I was familiar with that as well. But, um, that's really all I knew. And I think I was experiencing some typical stress of being a 30-year-old business owner and mom of 2 kids and not really knowing what I was doing with my life. So that's really what, what drove me to hypnosis initially was I just wanted a different way to get to know myself and understand what I was going through. Yeah, so that was my, my first experience.

What was the actual experience like? So you sit down, you answer some deep questions, maybe questions that you hadn't previously thought of before, did some reflections, and then what happens? I mean, what happens during during a session like that?

Sure. Well, my first experience was a traditional guided hypnosis process, so it was super relaxing, and I felt like I could have potentially been sleeping, uh, but I don't think I really was. And it really was just an extremely calming, relaxing experience where I was guided through a journey, if you will, which is a little different than the approach that I take today, but similar state of being, state of mind, if you will. But yeah, it was just really relaxing. The woman's voice was very calming and nurturing and soothing and I just remember feeling very safe and comfortable with her. Yeah, that was my, my experience.

Yeah, well, it sounds beautiful. I'll share my first experience with it soon. But before I do, you know, Sarah, I've lived, I've lived in this world of personal development, helping people solve problems and build skills, more resilient minds, change perspectives, things like that. I've I've lived in this personal development universe, I guess you could call it, for the last 10 years or so, maybe a little less. And I feel like hypnotherapy, hypnosis is not typically prescribed. It's not typically written about. It's not the first thing you think of when you think of self-help. And so why aren't more people leaning towards this modality as a way to overcome the stresses of being a 30-year-old business owner like you did?

That's a good question. I think it's really a lack of understanding of hypnosis and hypnotherapy. Honestly, I think that people use it without knowing that they're using it. It's not labeled that way. And that's just the modality that I was first introduced to. And so that's how, how I went into the training. And that's really sort of the foundation of my, my education in this personal development world. But I think that even coaches that guide people through, like, a meditative process, or they guide someone through just an exploration of their past or their limiting beliefs that are more on the subconscious level, all of that is really using hypnosis without Saying it's using hypnosis.

Yeah, you have a quote that I highlighted on page 37. I'll read it from my other screen. It says, in truth, we've all experienced a trance-like state without any outside help from a hypnotherapist. If you've ever allowed a parent, teacher, peer, politician, religious leader, news outlet, or social media channel or account to suggest a thought— which we're all guilty of— mindset, action, or concept to you, you've experienced a very mild form of hypnosis. And so that's interesting. Social media, mindlessly scrolling on social media is a form of hypnosis. Can you talk a little bit more about what that means?

Well, I often use the example of driving home from somewhere that you've driven home from, you know, thousands of times, and you pull up to your destination, and you're like, wait a second, I don't remember those last 3 turns I took. And obviously you were, you were safely driving, and you just did it sort of out of habit and memory. And, and that's essentially a trance-like state, right? You, you did what you needed to do, to do. You were conscious, but You were somewhere else. You were not in a fully alert state of consciousness. So that's, that's a form of hypnosis in a way. And I don't know if you've experienced this. I sure have. You know, I'll scroll. I actually have a timer set on my social media so that I don't do this. But, you know, time just like disappears. And then you're like, oh my gosh, where did the last 10 minutes go? I was just on Instagram for 10 minutes. I don't think I got anything of value out of that 10 minutes, but I was there, you know. And then you find yourself repeating something that you saw or thinking about, you know, an ad that came up on Instagram or someone's posts that You just— it's just sort of embedded there.

Yeah, it's funny how that works. Uh, going back a little bit to your book, You Are Not Broken, tell us, when did you decide to write this? Who is the target reader for the book? And, uh, how has the book been received so far?

Well, I decided to write it a while ago, actually. It took a long time. For me to get through the whole writing process and editing process. But I would say maybe 3 years ago, I had been working in my hypnotherapy practice for a while and seeing some really great results with clients. And I just— every time I have an appointment, I'm so inspired by people's effort and their commitment to whatever transformation that they're trying to work through. I mean, every single time I'm, I'm amazed. And it's not a service that I have the ability to offer to everyone, obviously. And it's not a service that everyone can afford to, to partake in. And so I thought there's gotta be a better, a better way to allow people to go through this process and support them. without having to, you know, spend 2 hours with, with as many people as I can. And so originally I thought I would do a course, but then I thought, you know, I, I really just want to work through this in a book and give it to as many people as possible. And, you know, let them go through the process on their own and see what they can uncover and, and shift in their own lives on their own. So that was the, you know, the motivation behind the book. And so far it's been pretty well received. I'm just doing kind of organic marketing at this point and trying to put the word out to, you know, the audience that we've developed on YouTube and anyone else that is willing to listen, I guess.

I'm sure we'll mention the size of your audience during the introduction, but for those that skipped through the introduction, Tell everybody a little bit about the community you've developed on YouTube because it's very impressive.

Sure. Well, thank you. It's been a number of years. I think it's almost 8 at this point. And I honestly started it by the recommendation of my, at the time, 10-year-old son who said, you just need to put your stuff on YouTube and then you can share it with your clients more easily. Um, though I had no intention of it being what it is, but, uh, it was well received when I started putting recordings on YouTube. And so I just kept doing it. Um, and since then, I think we're close to 900,000 or just over, somewhere in that vicinity. Um, and it's really rewarding to read through the comments and see that what I'm offering is helping people. So I always, I always love that.

That deserves a little pat on the back right there. That's amazing.

Well, thank you.

For those in the audience that are— and we'll do— we'll go a little bit deeper into hypnotherapy and maybe some of the things somebody in the audience might be facing that hypnotherapy can help them solve in just a minute. But for those that are already like, wow, I'm very impressed with Sarah, I'd love to work with you individually, What do you perform hypnotherapy virtually? And if so, what's that pricing structure look like? And oftentimes, how many sessions do people typically do with you?

Sure, that's a good question. I do, I do offer sessions virtually. I think that that actually works really well because the, the client, the person who's going through this process, can be in their own home or in their office or some— somewhere that they feel safe and comfortable. And that makes a really big difference in terms of the, the depth of hypnosis and the, the willingness to explore the subconscious mind and, and what might be contributing to whatever the, the issue at hand is. Uh, so that's done virtually. And often The, the, the initial package that I offer is a, um, it starts with a 2-hour, uh, appointment, 2-hour session. And in that session, we would talk a lot about background information, some potentially childhood upbringing, um, things that are contributing to whatever the, the issue at hand is, how it shows up in their life. And then we would go through the process of the hypnotherapy. And that is a conversational style of hypnosis where you're in a relaxed state of hypnosis, or you could consider it meditative state. And in that state, you're able to— I don't say shut off the conscious logical mind, but it's almost like That part of your mind is resting and you're, you're bypassing it to access more of the emotional and the subconscious mind. And, and that's where our beliefs about ourselves are held. That's where past experiences are held. A lot of people believe that there's like lots of different younger versions of ourselves in our, our subconscious mind. And And that's what we're really trying to work with in this, in the hypnosis. So that happens in the second half of our time together. And then beyond that, you would get a personalized recording that is based on the beliefs that you do want to have. It's based on the qualities that you want to embody, and they— that you think will help you to be the version of you that you want to be. Um, help you to, uh, live the life that you want to live, right? So that recording is designed to reinforce all the things that you do want in your life. It's creating familiarity. It's creating the repetition of these ideas so that they just are you.

Yeah, that's amazing. So, uh, do you mind sharing? And I understand price point is a moment in time, and so this is subject to change, everybody, but what does that initial 2-hour consult plus the personalized recording go for?

Yes, uh, so that package, which does also include a follow-up session after, you know, you've listened to the recording for a little while, currently is $549 for that, that package. And then after that, what I usually recommend is for people, if they want to keep continuing with the work, is they already have the initial session with me. We've already, you know, dug deep into past background, so I don't need quite as long of a time to work with someone. Beyond that, we just do our 75-minute sessions, and unless you need another recording, you just do a coaching package after that.

Wow, that sounds amazing. I, uh, I have somebody in my life who I'm going to maybe gift this for, uh, so I'm going to have a conversation with her, and, uh, I think it'd be, it'd be really interesting. I was sharing with you before, I've had some experiences, I would say, with forms of hypnosis over time. I mean, I started meditating about 10 years ago. Every single day, I started with guided meditations, which I would guess are a mild form of hypnosis. And then I would work up to some longer form meditations. Most of it I would do by myself. Even at one point I did float tanks, so sensory deprivation float tank experiences. And I did, I did 1 hour every week for 20 weeks straight, which was really fun. But from there, I worked with a couple of different mindset coaches that would put me through long form virtual, uh, guided hypnosis sessions. Um, and then more recently— and, and I wouldn't have classified this as hypnosis, but now I definitely would— about a year and a half ago, I was at a client workshop and they brought in a past life regression expert. And in hindsight, it was a form of hypnosis. It was guided, it was about an hour and a half long, it was extremely vivid, and I was totally, uh, I was totally— it was totally hypnosis. So just really fun to kind of think back to how vivid those experiences were because of the guided process.

Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. I'm curious, what, what did you find in terms of results or your experience with whether it was the past life or any of the other forms of hypnosis you experienced?

The past life piece I was the most skeptical of, uh, and kind of still am, probably more so than anybody in that room that day. There were about 20 people going through the workshop, and I had the most vivid experience visually and emotionally out of anybody in the room. So I was kind of flirting on this line about— Yeah, I was like, I'm open to the experience, but I'm a little skeptical. And, uh, I mean, at the risk of sounding too crazy for my audience, which is never a bad thing, I had this— there was probably like a 30-minute kind of intro visualization piece to the meditation or the, or the process where you're walking down these steps and you interact with this light in the center of the room. And once you move through that, I was, I was, uh, kind of transported back visually to this You could call it like 1500s, 1600s English countryside kind of cabin outside of a castle. And I lived an entire day. Um, I felt what that person was feeling. It was really interesting. And nobody else in the room had an experience anywhere close to that, but that's what I felt. And, uh, it was, yeah, it was really eye-opening.

I love that. Yeah, I don't have a ton of experience with past life work, but I, I find it very fascinating and, and curious. But, um, I, I think that it's just a sign that your, your imagination, your subconscious is, is just a very vivid, um, you know, you, you have vivid images that come up. So I think that probably any form of hypnosis would would serve you well.

Yeah, that's how I think about it too. Active imagination. And in fact, I was going through your book and I went through the lemon experiment.

Oh yeah.

The lemon, whatever you'd call it, kind of little fun, I don't know, exercise. That's the term.

Yeah.

Uh, would you mind doing that for everybody in the audience today to get a little preview for what, for what the mind is capable of doing?

Sure. Well, I would call it— it is an exercise for sure. It's also a suggestibility test. So it gives you a little bit of insight as to— I mean, everyone is suggestible in some, some amount, some capacity. But the, the one that you're describing, the— or referring to, the lemon, is, is really just to close your eyes. And imagine a lemon, right? You think about all the different aspects of a lemon. You think about the, the smell, perhaps the texture of the skin or the rind. Maybe you imagine the smell when you slice into a lemon. As my mouth starts watering as I'm describing it, you might have a similar experience. And then if you would imagine, you know, putting a slice of lemon in your mouth and biting down, what, what happens, the, the physiological experience that is evoked through that process, right? You don't actually have a lemon in front of you, but it, you know, it evokes a similar response.

Yeah, as, as you talk about this, my, um, my like cheeks are puckering up and my mouth is salivating. And, uh, right, I'm, I'm definitely suggestible, that's for sure.

Yeah, and there's lots of different forms of suggestibility tests to, to test out, you know, what your, your mind is capable of creating in your physical body.

So how does that, how does that provide context for you as a therapist? So we do that test. My cheeks are puckering. They're still puckering. And like, I can taste and smell the lemon. What does that tell you about my ability to do the work?

Yeah, well, it, it tells me that you, that this form of of therapy or this form of personal development can be very supportive for you. Right. I wouldn't say that there's people out there that can't be hypnotized. I think that there's levels or tiers, if you will. Right. And the folks that are very artistic or creative-minded are often Well, we'll often have a more vivid experience like what you described versus someone who is very like analytical or logical, like leaning more towards the logic than the, the creative and imagination. They may have a different experience. It may be less vivid imagery and it may just be more thought-like. experiences. Um, so it's all just different layers, different levels, different experiences from one person to another.

Yeah, and I think that people can change over time too, because I, I would have said 10 years ago that I was not creative, artistic, uh, visual, that I was more analytical, black and white. And I would— I was almost I was in a little bit of a fixed mindset as it relates to those subjects, and I was almost like, like holding on to a limiting belief in a way. And as I've immersed myself in this world of personal development, I've definitely learned that things like creativity and imagination and the ability to be artistic, those are learned skills in a lot of ways. And so sometimes it's just removing the limiting belief, or sometimes it's practicing and developing a different area of your brain or your life. And, and so, you know, maybe 10 years ago I would have said I don't see, taste, or smell a lemon, and now I'm like, I could still taste it, you know.

Well, I would also offer that the resistance that someone has towards the suggestibility test, if we just use that as an example, that resistance is it's something to work with as well. It's something to, uh, consider, like, what, what is it doing for you? What is that resistance? How is it serving you? And oftentimes it's some form of protection, right? Like, I don't want to do hypnosis because I don't want to see what I, what I see, right? Or I don't want to I don't want to learn whatever's going to come up in hypnosis. And that resistance is a way to, to protect someone, whether they know it consciously or not.

Yeah. Hmm. So that's interesting.

Yeah.

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Another concept that I wanted to ask you about from your book, You Are Not Broken. I thought this was really interesting. It was in the introduction. You talked about the idea that all humans are self-correcting. That's a little bit of a new concept for me, at least in that phrasing. Can you expand on that a little bit? All humans are self-correcting.

is it facilitates my approach as a coach and as a hypnotherapist because everything I do is client-led or client-centered. So even though I'm the guide and I am helping to facilitate the process, you as a client, or if you were my client, You have the answers. You are the expert in you. I am not. And so my job is to help you, help you to, to find the answers, help you to see what it is that you're seeking. I, I will often say, you know, when people come to hypnotherapy or they come to a coaching experience, it's like they're trying to see themselves with their nose pressed up against a mirror. And my job is to pull the mirror away so that you can see from a different perspective. So that's how I approach that idea, is that I think everyone has the answers that they're seeking. And if you can slow down, be silent or be still, and see the protective strategies like the resistance, For what it is, once it can be recognized, it can potentially be let go of. You can find a different way to meet that need, or you can recognize that the resistance as a protective strategy isn't needed anymore.

Right.

Let's say that resistance started when you were 12, and, you know, you were being rejected by your, your peer group. And so you resisted being yourself, or you resisted, you know, putting yourself out there. If you're not 12 anymore, and you're not in that, that, quote, threat of rejection from your peer group, you don't need that protective strategy anymore. So when you can look more clearly, then you can let go of that strategy or find a different way to meet the need.

Yeah, whenever, whenever I talk about meditation and people ask me, what are, what are the, the benefits that you've received from meditating 10 years straight? I talk about emotional intelligence, maybe more time to process logically and not react emotionally. But I also talk about that objective kind of— I love the metaphor of the mirror. You're trying to pull back so you could see the full picture. And I can— I oftentimes view myself from outside of the house, uh, sitting there meditating. And in an emotional situation or in a frustrating situation, sometimes I'll try to zoom out to the entire Earth Because that helps create so much distance that it allows the emotion to pass through me. And I've found that very useful. So it's interesting to hear you use a similar metaphor for some of the benefits of doing this work.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think when you're in the midst of a challenge or a struggle or like a big emotion, it's so hard to, to pull yourself out of it enough to really like get some perspective. But it's, it's important. And, and like you said, with the, the meditation practice, you, you cultivate that ability to, to have that pause, the pause that gives you the space to choose something different than the typical reaction that you might have without that pause.

Yeah, well said. Okay, I have one final subject I'd like to ask about, and then we'll start to wrap things up. I think the— I think some of the resistance from a lot of the people in our audience that are very logical and business-minded when they hear something like hypnotherapy— and by the way, if you're that type of person and you're still listening, kudos to you. But some of that, some of that resistance might be around, ah, like there's no science there, right? That's not logical. And one of the things I really enjoyed about the beginning of your book is you just went right at it. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, there's a lot of scientific evidence to support what I'm teaching and what I practice and what we're going to talk about in this book. So how is hypnosis and how is hypnotherapy rooted in science? That's my question.

Yeah. Well, it's definitely been studied for many, many years. And it's interesting that you ask that because at the beginning of the process of writing the book, I almost wanted to not use the term or the idea of hypnotherapy, because I think if I wrote this whole book with the word meditation, it would be received very differently, even though it's a very similar a similar state of mind. And, and really a lot of the more recent research and science has been around meditation and the benefits of meditation. So you can find much more about that than you can about the science of hypnosis and, and the state of hypnosis. But I think hypnosis was studied long in the, in the United States in particular, long before meditation was. Um, you know, there's research done around using the hypnotic state with, um, like the placebo effect around— um, I can't remember the exact, uh, it wasn't really a research study, it was just an anecdotal, um, offering about using the placebo effect with morphine, with soldiers that were having, um, having procedures done when they didn't have morphine. They were just doing it, telling them that they were getting morphine. And, and that is essentially the same thing, right? It's a suggestion. We're suggesting that we're giving you morphine even though we're, we're not. Um, yeah, I don't think I could, I could offer the exact scientific studies, but it's definitely been studied for, you know, over 100 years at least.

And there's more coming, and that, that's the point too. So it's rooted in science, there's a good foundation, it works, uh, and there's more coming. And, and I love— yeah, and you're totally right about— it's funny to think about the term meditation, but it's more palatable today than it was 5 years ago, and certainly more palatable Today than it was 10 years ago. And my guess is that hypnotherapy and hypnosis will kind of follow that same trajectory over time.

Yeah, yeah, I hope so. I think it's very useful. You know, if somebody doesn't like the term hypnotherapy and they're resistant to it, what the way that I practice, at least, it could be looked at as just Like, let's take away the, the visuals. Let's just close our eyes and see what we can know without looking around, right? What, what can you know about yourself by just closing your eyes and slowing down a little? You know, that's what I would offer to someone that's like a little hesitant or skeptical. You know, just, just try that. Close your eyes and see what you can notice. It's a good first step.

It is. 2 final questions and we'll let you go. So the first is this: where can people go to learn more about you, inquire about your services, maybe sign up for that 2-hour consultation or get a copy of the book? What's the best place?

Uh, themindfulmovement.com is the— is my main website, or On YouTube, you can just search The Mindful Movement and there's hundreds and hundreds of videos that will come up.

Okay, perfect. We'll make sure that's linked in the show notes as well as a link, uh, to your book directly as well.

Sounds good. Thank you.

Okay, here's the final question. If the book was deleted and your YouTube channel was deleted, but you could leave the world with one simple message related to hypnosis, hypnotherapy, Or the idea of you are not broken, what would that message be?

Hmm. Well, at first I was going to say the, the invitation that I offered to close your eyes and see what you can notice. But I, I do think you are not broken is a message that I would love to, to offer to anyone who is willing to, to listen to it.

I love it. Well, listen, Sarah, thank you so much for the conversation today. It was a lot of fun reading through your book, going through some of the exercises, thinking about the questions that were posed in there, and I'm excited to lean into this subject a little bit more.

Well, thank you very much for having me.

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