281. Gary Daly

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview Gary Daley, author of Built by Lessons: Turn Your Challenges into Triumphs. Gary is a tech sales professional, coach, and lifelong learner who's built his career across Australia, the UK, Ireland, and the UAE. Over the past decade, he's grown through multiple roles in the corporate world while staying deeply committed to personal development, public speaking, and mentoring younger professionals. Along the way, he's learned how to turn uncertainty, anxiety, and career pressure into In this episode, you'll learn how Gary used a low point at 23 years old to completely reset his direction and start building a life on purpose, why finding destiny helpers can accelerate your growth faster than talent alone, and how to take massive action even if you're naturally anxious, introverted, or an overthinker. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Gary Daley.

Gary, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. I want to kick off by telling you a quick story. A handful of years ago, I picked up a book called Tools of Titans by Tim Ferriss. And as I was reading through that book, I came across a chapter about somebody named Wim Hof. And at the time, I had never heard of Wim, but I read that he could withstand these wildly cold temperatures and he had these crazy breathing techniques. And so ever since I read that chapter, it's always been sort of a dream of mine to do an experience with him. So I'd like to hand the baton over to you, and I'd like to hear about what it's actually like hiking up a mountain in nothing but shorts with Wim Hof in the middle of the snow, because I can't— I can imagine it's such a wild experience.

Yeah, and that's so funny the way you asked that question, because I too had read Tools of Titans and I was very intrigued by the chapter on Wim Hof and that he was this Dutch daredevil who goes into ice baths, who sort of, I guess, heals his immune system in the cold. So, I didn't really think much of it after that, but then I got on a trip to Vegas. And when I came back, I had a serious back issue. It was really painful. And it turned out that I had a slipped disc in my back. And I went to physios, I went to everything that I could. And nothing seemed to work. And then one of my friends in the office said, oh, there's a physio, and like, he's really good. Honestly, I know you've been to a few, but this guy is different. And I went to him and he was very different. He was very big into breathing and he was telling me that I was very tensed up. And then he asked me, had I heard of Wim Hof? And I said, yeah, I have. And he basically said, this guy changed my whole practice. And he said, if you can, you should definitely go to a seminar with him. And Then I Googled Wim Hof London because I was in London at the time. And it turns out maybe a week or two after, he was in London. And he said basically, bring your shorts and bring a yoga mat and, you know, get ready to go into the cold water. So I went to that and I learned about breathing. And then at the real end of the session, we had to go into the ice water for 2 minutes. And it was excruciatingly like—

Cold.

cold. It was— I couldn't feel my legs. I couldn't feel anything. But he got us sort of to use our breath. And then we sort of almost warmed up internally. And no word of a lie, my back just felt so much better after that. And long story short, then I started going to more sort of Wim Hof type events and really then took the plunge. And it was January 2020, before the world shut down. And I went to Poland for a week. with maybe like 50 to 60 other people and immersed myself in doing sort of the cold water every day and then climbing up a mountain in nothing but a pair of shorts. And it was honestly phenomenal and life-changing in a lot of ways for me. So yeah, it's indescribable, to be honest. It was really, really good.

Is that a habit that you've kept up with? Do you still do cold exposure?

100%, yeah. Now, I'm in Dubai, which it's not as easy to get cold exposure here, although you can still on the beach. There's people who have ice baths and things like that. But definitely, I mean, this was 2020. So, I had made a pact actually even 2018 with my friends and it was sort of a WhatsApp every morning like cold shower done. So, I used them as accountability. So, I made sure every day that I did a cold shower. And there was a time as well where I would go into the Irish Sea every weekend, especially with my dad as well, who was sort of in his 60s at the time. And we really sort of immersed ourselves in that and just felt so much better. But it was a commitment, and especially with the breathing as well, because I still do the breathing to this day, which is called the Wim Hof Method. And essentially, that's just like healing your immune system and reducing inflammation in the body. So I still do that.

Admittedly, both to you and the audience, I need to get back into cold exposure. I used to do cold plunges in my backyard where I'd break the ice and I'd get in. I even did some book reviews from the ice, but it's been a little while. Last year I did 30 days of cold showers in a row. But, uh, man, I went outside this morning and we had 6 inches of snow yesterday, and I was like, this would be the perfect setting to start doing the ice baths again. And of course, talking to you reminded me of that. Let's, um, let's go back in time a little bit. So you're 23 years old when your story really starts to change. You're lost in Australia and you're kind of working for a company that's about to go under. That seems like it was the big kind of wake-up call for you. So, bring us back to that moment and then start to tell us about some of the things that you were introduced to and some of the changes that you started to make.

Yeah. So, basically, I went to university, all that good stuff, had a really nice upbringing. So, there's no sort of rags-to-riches story here. It was more that I always felt like the goals were bestowed upon me from, it could be your parents, it could be university, school. And then when I got to Australia, I went backpacking, and for the first time I was like, what am I going to do? And I fell into sales, and the company that I worked for, unfortunately or fortunately depending on your mindset, went into administration and liquidation. So I went through a tough time, and health-wise, everything like that, I sort of— yeah, my mindset was poor. I was struggling. Like, no matter how good I was, I was in a vehicle that probably wasn't going to be able to move me too much forward. But like anything, I'm very loyal, so I wanted to, like, stay through and have no regrets. And there was one day that ultimately, I think, changed my life when my twin brother came home from work and he had 2 tickets to a business seminar. And I'd never been to a business seminar, and it was called the National Achievers Congress. And this was 2011 in Sydney. Australia. So I'm obviously Irish, and, you know, we went to Australia backpacking and decided to wait for a little while. But when I went to that business seminar, like, Tony Robbins was one of the speakers. And anyone that's— anyone in personal development will know who Tony Robbins is. And I think it was the first time where I really saw that, okay, you can sort of take ownership of your life. Like, obviously you have your certain programming, uh, which has come from sort of adults, education, whatever. sort of came before that, but you can reprogram your mind. And as cliché and all as it sounds, I started to learn about like money, I started to learn about sales, your career, like public speaking, all of these different things. And it was a bit like The Matrix when Neo sort of sees the Matrix for the first time. And honestly, I was just really blown away by that. And then I just started investing in myself. And like, that's the advice that I would give any younger person that listens to this, or even older person as well, is about like learning. So For me, that was the first time that I really started to, I guess, do self-exploration as well. And I always say it doesn't matter what age you are because there was a woman that turned to me and she was probably in her 40s. I was 23, like you'd mentioned, and she sort of said, I wish I was your age. And I see a guy who's 17 and I say the same thing to him. So, you know, the student is ready when the teacher appears type thing.

Yeah, the two of us have so many similarities in our story, uh, from how we discovered Wim Hof. I mean, so many people find him in other ways, but my personal development journey also felt like The Matrix, and I think it does for so many people where you're awake really for the first time in your entire life. Mine was also in my early 20s, and I remember getting exposed to this personal development information For my story, it was originally through some podcasts, which led to my first couple of books. And I remember sitting there reading some of these books thinking, how did I live my entire life without getting exposed to some of these basic concepts? Like, I wish that our high school or early education systems taught some of these basic personal development principles. And, and, uh, like Tony Robbins should be mandatory programming for everybody. And so some of my first books were audiobooks by Tony Robbins. And as I got immersed into some of these concepts, I just couldn't believe that there was this entire universe that you just need to raise your level of awareness and then you're aware of it, essentially. So who are some of the other early influences for you? There's Tony Robbins, and then did that bridge into any other personal development classics or anything like that?

Yeah, obviously then I discovered like Tony Robbins' mentor was a guy called Jim Rohn, who like if you listen to him, he's obviously passed away since, but all of his lessons are like universal truths essentially. And I always give credit to Grant Cardone, who I know isn't everyone's cup of tea, but like probably I'm a very anxious, almost shy person, which a lot of people won't believe, but he probably gave me a little bit of that bravado when I started working in sales in like a a fairly, you know, interesting environment in, in London, you know, as a sort of a shy Irish, uh, guy who meditates and doesn't drink. Um, he gave me that little bit of courage, so I always have to sort of thank him for that. And I mean, the list goes on, right? There's, there's so many. But there's a guy called Sean Roach who I saw him speak before, amazing speaker. Um, he's sort of out of the limelight now, but he always sort of says to me, like, mentor the message and never the mentor, because The mentor is only human and they're probably going to fall at one stage because we're all sinners in many ways. But as long as you sort of keep the message at its heart, then that's the best thing. So sometimes we shouldn't put them on a pedestal, but really take their message to heart.

I think that's a beautiful lesson.

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And by the way, Grant, I don't, I don't remember if we talked about this. Grant has been on this show a couple of times, so you're now sharing the digital stage with Grant. And just like you, I think although he does get quite a bit of criticism on social media and for some of the decisions he's made, When you're with him in person, I mean, there's almost nobody more charismatic, and there's a lot to learn from that. He makes you feel really special, even though you think he's special. He makes you feel really special, and I really admire that about him. And I've seen him do it not just with me but with a lot of other people. And, uh, yeah, there are so many great mentors out there. Uh, Jim Rohn, just like you mentioned, I mean, sort of the grandfather of We are the average of the 5 people that you spend the most time with, or that we spend the most time with, which I think is just such an important lesson for that age. When you were going through this transformation and your brother brought home those tickets, did he get involved in this journey with you? And did you bring other friends along with you, or was it kind of a solo experience at first?

No, for sure he did. And he came to a couple of other seminars with me and And then I remember when I started working, say, in the corporate world and sales, like even things like public speaking, I started going to something called Toastmasters, which I always talk about if someone wants to improve their public speaking. And I brought a couple of guys along with me and like I just saw their transformation even after like a couple of weeks of doing this. So I definitely have tried and I've sort of mentioned to people, but another lesson that I sort of learned is like it's not for everyone and that's okay because there was definitely a time where I was like, oh, everyone should be doing this. And I think that could be quite off-putting as well. Like, everyone's on their own unique sort of special journey. Like, it was very important for me. I think it's probably important not to oversell it too much, otherwise you'll put people off. And I think really it's more if they see that, okay, there's something different, there's something changed about you, you seem sort of like you're happier, you're doing quite well, like, what's your secret? Maybe that's the time to sort of introduce it. And I found that maybe over the last couple of years, I've got better at that. But definitely at the start, I was just trying to tell everyone about it, really excited, but I had to be mindful of, I guess, where everyone else is at in their journey.

You mentioned no alcohol. So how long have you not been a drinker, or were you always never a drinker?

Yeah, so I grew up in Ireland, and Ireland and the UK, alcohol is definitely something that we do definitely at the weekends. And I think maybe compared to the Europeans, one isn't probably enough. We don't drink it, relax with our meal. We go all in, as they say. But I just found when I was in Australia and I was going through that tough time, I was like, I probably need to give up some things. But in all honesty, I never really enjoyed it. And there was a bit of peer pressure with it in Ireland, especially like, oh, what are you drinking? And all that type of stuff. In 2011, I also read, by the way, Grant Cardone said at 25, he completely got rid of alcohol and stopped wasting his weekends. And I really took that to heart. And I just did it as a social experiment. I was like, can I actually go out and enjoy a night out with my friends? And luckily, my friends are awesome. They didn't care. They don't care because we have fun no matter where we are. And I went out and I wasn't judged. But I think back in 2011, it was a bit more sort of, oh, why aren't you drinking with maybe other people? Now it's not a thing because there's 0% alcohol, all that good stuff. But it was a social experiment and it's just kept going since. And I just feel better. I like getting up early. I'll still go out on a night out. And to be honest, when I'm with my friends, I feel sort of intoxicated because I'm in the environment, I'm in having fun, but I know when to leave essentially because It's funny as well, my coach at the moment sort of says like, after 10, nothing good happens. You sort of, you eat rubbish, you talk rubbish, and you probably watch rubbish as well. So, which is—

Yeah, they compound on each other too, because when you start drinking, then the quality of food that you consume also goes down. And yeah, I've taken a really big step away from alcohol as well, which is why I asked you about it. Last year was Definitely the, the year where I consumed the least amount of alcohol in the previous 15 years or whatever, uh, 10 years. And, uh, I felt amazing. And this year my goal is to have less than 10 drinks for the entire year. And the reason that I'm still allowing some is I have some celebrations and some weddings and some things that I'm attending some special events with my wife and I want to have maybe one glass of wine, but to really get it under control, less than 10 for the whole year. And now you live in an environment where alcohol is sort of frowned upon anyway, isn't that right?

Yeah.

So I live in Dubai and for sure, it's not as mainstream. I mean, look, you can get it here for sure and there's certain places, but it's sort of, I guess, sort of locked down, so to speak. So to be honest, it really suits me. Well, you know, so I'm a fan of that.

Yeah. Amazing. Like I said, we're cut from the same cloth in a lot of ways. So, let's accelerate the story a little bit. So, you start making all these changes, you start feeling better, you start performing better, you've moved around a little bit. At what point did you decide, hey, I'd like to document some of these personal development lessons inside of a book? When did that happen for you?

Yeah, so I'd sort of done something similar, right, when I was in Australia and going through the tough times and sort of being at the business seminars. So I did release an ebook at the time, but really it was more sort of theory-based. So it was when I left Australia and then I moved back to Ireland and then to the UK, and I started working with a Fortune 500 company at a very junior sales level. And then I just started progressing through the ranks. I got sort of a move back to Ireland in a more senior role. I started getting very good at public speaking and I won a pitching competition 2 years in a row. And one of them was in front of the CEO and this guy looks after 80,000 employees. And I was just thinking then, I'd moved here and I was just thinking, okay, this journey is like 10 years. And I always sort of said to the guy that was 23 or 24, I need to sort of document this. I need to tell the story. And my wife definitely pushed me to do it. My coach pushed me to do it as well. And I just decided, okay, the who is always you. So the who of the book is like maybe me when I was 23, 24. And I always say, like, I work in sales, but I'm not a warrior, I'm a worrier. So it was sort of more for those type of people who are maybe a little bit more shy and anxious and to give them sort of almost like a bit of a blueprint or some ideas that can spark sort of maybe what they want to do. So I literally sort of got my phone and started recording my voice, um, of what the chapters of the book would be like when it came to public speaking, when it came to the environment that I was in, when it came to sort of the journey that I was on. Because I think maybe what's unique about me in some ways is like I've lived in Australia, I've lived in the UK, I've moved back to Ireland, and then I've relocated to Dubai as well. So I've lived in 4 different countries, and that's not easy as well, but I've been able to make the transitions. And when you move to these different environments, you learn different things, different cultures. So I just thought, why not share this with the world? And really, it was for me who was 23, and anyone else who bought it was a complete bonus. And in all fairness, it really was.

I like how you shared, you know, you, to make it easy, you would just talk into your phone. And I think that sometimes people, sometimes people in this audience especially, they find the process of building a book so difficult. And it is. I mean, I've built a book before. It is a very difficult process, but serving your younger self in the way that you did by writing this book and Also, like, I've found that when you go back through all of these lessons and you're sort of teaching your younger self what you wish you knew back then, it also forces you to consolidate so many of the lessons that you've been through in a way that it's teachable, which also helps you retain it and kind of refresh the fundamentals. And, uh, you know, going back to what you mentioned about public speaking, because that's a little bit of a theme here, I was also Uh, somebody who was very anxious and a worrier when I was younger as it relates to speaking specifically. And I went through Toastmasters, which I also found very helpful. And I also brought my friends to Toastmasters and watched them go through the experience too. So what's some public speaking advice that you might have for the audience? Somebody who's terrified to speak in front of other people, any tips, any tricks, any strategies that have really helped you lower the worry and helped you step kind of into more of a confident self?

Yeah. So, we've talked about Toastmasters, and I think just actually committing to doing it right is a big thing and putting yourself out there firstly, even if you're scared, because my coach always says, like, the opposite of your pattern is your solution. So, I'm not a good public speaker. What's the opposite of that is to actually go and do something like Toastmasters. So, Just a quick story. There's something called a table topic, as you'll know, where you basically sign up to talk about something for 2 minutes, and you don't have a clue what it's going to be about until they bring you up on stage. And they sort of said to me, Gary, why should Ant-Man win an Oscar? Go. And then for 2 minutes, I don't know what I said. I don't know where I was. I just lost complete track of time. I'm sure I was blabbering on. But I just really wasn't comfortable. And I sat down and I just felt so rejected, humiliated, all that type of stuff. But then they sort of gave me sort of constructive feedback and sort of maybe what I did well. And then I saw the next speaker and I just saw that, okay, they've almost been trained. They seem to be able to sort of navigate this. They have a bit of a plan. They have a structure. They have a beginning, a middle, and an end. And I could have done anything. I could have said to the audience, like, who here has seen Ant-Man? Like, engaging the audience. I could have mentioned, I've never seen Ant-Man, but I know the guy was in Friends, and I could have talked about Friends, the TV show. And there was just so many things that I could have done. And really, it's sort of skills that you learn when you're on the spot. And I always say, like, firstly, pause, sort of listen to that question in your head, and then just tell a story that's maybe authentic. You can also tell the truth, like, that you've never seen it, you sort of tell the audience what you're going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you've just told them. And you really just have to tell a story. And it's okay to pause, like, it's okay to sort of take a moment. And then it's just getting yourself in the rhythm of it, right? You just have to keep doing it. And that might sound sort of like too simplistic, but the more you do it, and the more you listen to feedback of people who are very good at public speaking, you get better at it. And that's essentially it. And I found when I was working in the corporate world, I remember relocating back to Ireland and I literally committed to, okay, I'm going to do like 20 public speaking things this month. And I just made sure I was always public speaking. So if any opportunity came up, I put my hand up, even if I was scared to do it. I just said, I'll do it and commit to it. And that's essentially how I did it. It's just, you just Keep going through it, really.

It's beautiful advice. You know, it's the idea that exposure desensitizes us to the fears that we experience, the anxieties that we experience. You know, oftentimes I think that public speaking anxiety, especially mine in the early days, it came from uncertainty. You know, if we don't know what's about to happen, we don't know how we're going to react, we think we're going to perform poorly and then get rejected. We feel that fear in the present moment, and just like you said, raise your hand, get out there, do it more often, and you'll feel a little bit more confident. Now, Gary, something I've noticed in my life and in a lot of my reading is that typically when somebody is a little bit more reserved, like you've said you have been, a little bit more of a worrier, a little bit more introverted, I've noticed that those people also. tend to set introverted goals, reserved goals. They tend to try to play a little bit of a smaller life, but you've done the opposite, obviously. And now you even teach people inside of your book how to set massive goals and how to take massive action. So if there's somebody in the audience today that's resonating with your disposition and they say, you know what, I've been a little bit quieter, I've been a little bit more introverted, But I want to shake things up and take massive action. What advice do you have for them?

Well, I would say, and I was talking about this earlier with someone else, like, okay, set the goals, which are great, but like, what's the vision? What do you want in sort of 3 to 5 years' time? Because the goals are things that are more short-term, maybe like 1 year's time. And if you're going through tough times, the goals probably won't get you through it, but the vision will. And the vision, once again, like my coach, I have to give credit to, he's called Aidan O'Brien, an Irish guy here. He says, don't think of your future, think from your future. So, what does the ideal day look like for you in 3 to 5 years' time? How do you dress? What time do you wake up at? All that type of stuff. So, why not try and do some of that stuff now so that you're becoming your future self in a way? And you can have complete fun with it. Make it a story, like use your imagination. And of course, even if you hit only a tiny bit of those goals, then you're better off than you were. So I think that's probably where I would go to, like use the imagination because life is short, but your potential really isn't. And it's just, we keep saying it, putting yourself out there. Like there's people out there who, they're no different to you and me, but they just take action. And they compress the time. They don't say, I'll do it tomorrow. They're like, let's do it now. If I have 10 minutes, why not create that YouTube video or make that phone call, whatever it may be. And I guess maybe the older you get, I'm nearly 40, you start to maybe not take yourself as seriously as well. So people are thinking about themselves, they're not thinking about you. So you might as well just sort of go all in on it.

It sounds like you get a lot of value from being coached. How long have you had your coach for?

So I've had him since maybe 2, 2 and a half years. And it's interesting, the story behind that is that I was doing quite well here. Like on paper, everything was going well, but I sort of, I almost felt like misaligned a tiny bit. And misalignment is very quiet, like it sort of whispers. And I almost felt like I'm confused and I sort of put it to him and he said, that's fine. Confusion leads to clarity or curiosity leads to clarity. So it's okay if you're sort of confused. And I found then that coaching is more, actually they're active listening and they're just pulling answers out of you that's stuck in your head. But of course, if you don't sort of take the time out in the space, you're never going to address these things. And then interestingly enough, since I've been doing this coaching with the coach, I've now done a diploma in coaching myself. And that would never have happened if I wasn't confused. And now I almost have a lot more clarity on where I want to go. And I believe in sort of the magic of coaching because it is non-directive. Like, they're not telling you what to do. They're just simply shining a light on you. And then a lot of the answers are already in you, so they're just pulling that out. So that's the value that I found in coaching. It's sort of just removing blockages so that you can sort of, I guess, go back to your natural self.

And so I imagine today you do feel more aligned?

100%. Yeah, 100%.

That quiet whisper has gone away?

I think it's, look, it's always still there to a certain extent. And There's this thing called The Man in the Arena, I think by Theodore Roosevelt. And it's interesting because I ask this question a lot, like, when will self-doubt go away? And I'm always told it won't go away because at the end of the day, you're in the arena swinging the bat. The only way it goes away is if you go into the stand and watch other people, then you're not really growing or anything like that. So I think self-doubt's always going to be there. There might always be a little bit of misalignment, but I believe I'm sort of on that journey and that trajectory 100%. And of course, there's going to be bumps in the road and all those different things. But I think now I have a bit more of a, I guess, a sense of where I'm going.

So, Gary, your book Built by Lessons, I mean, it's almost been out now for about a year. Is that right?

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

And how has the response been so far?

Really, really good. Yeah, it's probably done better than I expected. And I'm in the process now of building a website. I think once this goes live, I think that's going to just get the book out there even more. And also for me, one of the things that I want to do to give back is if I meet, as an example, I was at a seminar or sorry, a roadshow here, basically a technology one in the UAE. And I met a couple of students. And when I meet people like that who are like, hey, how can I get into work in a Fortune 500 company or whatever it may be? I'm like, I'd love to send you a copy of my book. So, I try and give this thing away quite a bit because it's more to get the message out there. Now, I do want to do coaching. I want to do one-to-one coaching with people as it's sort of more of a fulfillment thing for me. But the book, for sure, I almost want to give that to the early in career people who are stuck in their career because I've had what I call destiny helpers, and I think my wife coined that term, more like mentors. But when you start to get into receiving mode in life and you're open to opportunities, I believe that destiny helpers come along to help you. And I've had a lot of these people, be it in work, outside of work, and that's why I wrote the book. And maybe that's why it's resonating with people, because I always say, these are not my lessons. They're lessons that I learned from these people and ultimately want to sort of pass on.

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And it reminds me of a story that MJ DeMarco told me. He's the author of The Millionaire Fastlane. And he said that oftentimes, he'd be coming out of a restaurant and the valet grabs his Lamborghini. And people would run up and say, oh, hey, what do you do for work? How do I get a Lamborghini? And he'd pop the front trunk because I guess that's where the trunk is in a Lamborghini and, and pull out a copy of his book and he'd hand it to people and say, if you want to know how I got a Lamborghini, read this book. And he said a lot of people would actually, that actually like you could see their energy lowers a little bit, like I have to read a book. And it's like, it is that simple actually. All you have to do is read and implement these lessons. And so you've documented the last couple of almost decades worth of knowledge inside of a book that's available for $20, and you can read it and implement it in just a few hours of your time, and you can make better decisions. I mean, in the case of your book, you can break limiting beliefs, you can set ambitious goals, you can master resilience, you can, you can improve peak performance. You can find your destiny helpers, uh, to your wife's term, which I think is so beautiful. And that's the power of reading and implementing material like this. For anybody who's interested in getting a copy of your book, or maybe they've been really impressed like I have with your answers today, and they're like, hey, you know what, I think I do need a coach, and Gary, you sound like the kind of person that maybe I want to work with, how do people reach out? How do they get in touch?

So if you go to the website builtbylessons.com, you'll find me on there. And then all of my sort of socials, which is mainly like LinkedIn and YouTube, all of that will be on there, but builtbylessons.com. So that's where you'll be able to find the book and like sort of book a discovery call if you want to look at like one-to-one coaching with me and see if it's a good fit. Because look, it might not be a good fit and it might be a great fit.

So we'll determine that on And is there a price range for working with you?

To be honest, that's still to be decided. I'm, yeah, by the time this is aired, the website will be up and running and we'll have all that decided. So it's all, it's all very new and very fresh. Perfect.

Perfect. Well, listen, you sound, you sound like somebody who knows what they're doing and who really puts in the work. And I like working with And this is for the audience too. Like, I like working with worriers, not warriors, because you care so much about making sure that you're doing a great job. So, I bet there will be a number of people in the audience that reach out to learn a little bit more about what you do.

Excellent. No, thank you so much. Really enjoyed this.

And Gary, quick, we'll actually do a couple of rapid-fire questions and then I'll let you go. If Built by Lessons, your book, was deleted, totally gone, but you could go back and tell that 23-year-old version of yourself just one thing from the book, one lesson that could improve their life dramatically, what would that be?

It's very similar to your answer with the Lamborghini, and it's get curious, right? Because I always think of Pursuit of Happiness where he asked the guy with the Ferrari, like, What do you do and how do you do it? So I would say get curious. And I've done that to a neighbor who turned out to be a CEO of a wealth management company. And I started to learn about finances, index funds, all these different things. So I'd say get curious.

I love that. Well, you mentioned Pursuit of Happiness. I have not read the Pursuit of Happiness book, but I have seen the movie many times. It's one of my all-time favorites. Can you tell me your favorite movie of all time and why?

It's probably what— it's actually, I think it is ranked as the best movie, Shawshank Redemption. I just absolutely loved it. I just— the plan to get out, to escape, everything like that, it was just brilliant. And the friendship between the 2 guys as well, and the end scene, without spoiling it for anyone, I think it's, yeah, just a really special film.

That is a really special film, and I have not seen it in quite a while. I'm currently training for some Ironman races And so I'm spending a lot of time on my stationary indoor bicycle. And so I've been watching movies recently, and I'll go back and, and I'll watch Shawshank. That's, that's a great recommendation. What was the best book that you read in 2025? We're recording this in early 2026, so I'm curious, what was the best or most meaningful or most impactful or most effective book that you read last year?

So there's an entrepreneur, he's called Naval Ravikant, if I'm not butchering the name, but it's The Alimack of Naval Ravikant. And I just thought it was amazing. Once again, he sort of focuses on health, wealth, love, and fulfillment. And yeah, I didn't want to put the book down. I read it a couple of times actually. So that's one of my favorite books.

Yeah, it is a great book. I've interviewed the author of that book, Eric Jorgensen, on this podcast. And then also Naval's brother, funny enough, has been on this podcast. His name is Kamal, and he wrote a book about love. And so, 2 brilliant human beings, their story, how they grew up, how they've been raised. I mean, they're just, you know, 2 of the greatest minds on the planet. But I also agree, that's one of my favorite books of all time. My favorite takeaway from it is that Oh, and it's been so long, I'll probably butcher this, but audience, go read the book anyway. It's the idea that so many people pursue money and then they think that's going to lead to health and wealth. Um, oh no, health, wealth, and happiness. So, so many people pursue money and they think that's going to lead to health and happiness, but instead you should reverse it. You should pursue Happiness first and then health and then wealth are results of it. And I just thought that was such a beautiful way to like reverse what the world tends to think is the right order.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah. And I'll ask one more question. Who is your favorite podcaster? Do you listen to many podcasts? Who's your favorite podcaster?

That is a very interesting one. Off the top of my head, I really can't think, if I'm being completely honest. Yeah, I think there's a lot of podcasts now. And in all honesty, I think I probably listen to too many and I need to actually switch off because there's an Irish musician called Imelda May and she said, like, if you're listening to all these people, are you ever really listening to yourself? So, I'm trying to do that a bit more, just going for a walk and listen to my own thoughts as well. So, that's probably my answer to that one, actually.

It's a good answer. Yeah, I love it. Well, Gary, thank you so much for the conversation today. I think the audience will find you shared a lot of great information with us. And one more time, what is the website URL that people can go to if they want to learn more about you and grab a copy of your book?

Sure. And thank you. So it's builtbylessons.com.

Amazing. Thank you. That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, Go read something.