54. Grant Cardone: Author of Sell or Be Sold

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to episode number 54 of our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, I interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In this episode, Ryan and I have the pleasure to interview author Grant Cardone. Grant is an impressive guy. He's the CEO of Cardone Capital, which has a $2 billion portfolio of multifamily properties. He's created over 20 bestselling business programs, and he was actually named the number one marketer to watch by Forbes magazine. Grant is also the founder of the 10X Movement and the 10X Growth Conference, which just happens to be the world's largest business and entrepreneurship conference. Our conversation today was recorded in person a few months ago at Grant's Miami studio. What a thrill it was to be in person with Grant. So thank you to the Cardone team for inviting us down, and thank you to Grant for being such an amazing host. There's a lot of jokes. We had a lot of fun. The energy is amazing. We talked about all sorts of sales-related items and about Grant's book, Sell or Be Sold. So without further ado, Please enjoy this amazing conversation with Grant Cardone.

We here, man. We here. Come on.

You're missing Grant Cardone.

Yeah, I appreciate you guys.

Well, the subject of today's discussion is sell or be sold.

Why is that the discussion? Why are you all locked into this?

We are with the king of sales. That's why.

Well, I don't know if I'm the king of sales, but I am the— like, if you want to learn, if a person wanted to learn transparent, very, uh, straightforward, uh, no bullshit, no tricks, no gimmicks selling, they would learn from me. If you, if you're into like, if you're into like, okay, he held his hand like that, and so I gotta copy, I need to go get my green shirt on, I gotta like Do you mind? Like, if you're, if you're into freaking, like, trying to become 1,000 different things and manipulate people and trick people, it's just not ideal.

Well, we both read in excess dozens of sales books, and we both put this at the top of our list because you are so straightforward. You know, you kick off right in the intro, you're like, everybody sells, you need to sell. And so why does sales get such a bad rap? Why did you have to prep?

Because I'm not the bad guy. It's the trickery all the way back to What was the book you mentioned earlier?

How to Win Presidential Feuds.

It's trickery. It's how to win friends and how to become their friend. How to— you don't become somebody's friend. You either are a friend or you're not.

Absolutely.

And, and you don't like— you can't— if you're trying to make friends, what am I having to do to make a friend? That's why so many people lose their power, because they try to become someone else. To become your friend. I don't fake it to make it till you make it. I've never faked it. I've never faked it to make it.

I don't—

I think that people that fake it to make it end up in jail, you know, and, and I don't do that. What I do is I am who I am, and then I need to— I need— I don't take shortcuts. I, I fill out the top of the funnel until I find the right people, right number of people that resonate with me.

Yeah.

And so these other, these other things are tricks and they're gimmicks to try to Shortcut the hard work of getting a lot of people to know you, which means I got to go through a lot of rejection. And this book is really about look, rejection is not an emotion. So people that are out, I'm not made for sales. No, you're confused about it. You're not made for sales because somebody was trying to teach you something, a trick. Really honest people don't want to do sales. The best salespeople I've ever met in my life were straight. Like, hey Grant, it's not a good deal. Let me show you what you are. Like, that is the best way to build a client. Grant, less is not better in this case. More is better. Like, let me show you this deal over here. If you did this, you know. So, um, this book is really about how any person— an honest person— a dishonest guy's not gonna like this book. He's gonna go read the other stuff because he's looking for a shortcut. But a different— That's an honest person. Somebody in network marketing, retail sales, phone sales, Cold calling, door knocking. If you want to know how to communicate to someone, find out if there's a buyer, find out if there's somebody qualified, know exactly what to talk to them about in a straightforward manner. So it's a great book.

So it's just human communication, that's all it is, right?

Well, it's about, it's about, it's, it's about thinking, hey, this, this is $1,100, that's what it is, and you want to pay $200 a month to, to fund it. And really, just a $3,000 investment. It's not a Free. Everybody's doing free. Get your free iPhone. Get your free iPhone. You don't pay three grand for it anyway, and you probably break it. So, so I'm gonna be like, this is a three thousand dollar phone, but let me tell you, let me tell you why it's worth three grand. See, I'm just, I'm bringing the price. I'm using price up front to get attention and then to move in my presentation.

So I have a pretty funny story. When I was in college, a freshman in college, fall semester. And I passed this really beautiful girl on campus. And at that point—

What was his name?

I love the glasses, by the way. And at that point in my life, though, I made a transition from an introvert to an extrovert.

Yeah.

And it's because I realized— I think this is important for our demographic— I realized that communication is the root of success in whatever you do.

Yeah.

It's fundamental. And that's what you're from, you know, that's really authentically what you're sharing.

Yes. And look, if you've encouraged an introvert to just be honest, They're not introverted anymore. They're like, oh, I can talk about anything. Like, if you know a topic and a subject, you're not introverted anymore. The introversion is basically, I'm in an environment where I'm uncomfortable with the surroundings. If you put me in an environment where I'm uncomfortable, you're going to see me introvert. Naturally introvert. Everybody has the ability to pull in. Um, you know, all of nature does this. Nature, like, pulls in when it feels like it's being attacked or in a threatening environment. So People just need to develop the skill to say, okay, I'm an extrovert despite, um, the sense of, you know, that it's a dangerous environment. I mean, why would we not all be really introverts when our parents all told us, be careful, yeah, don't talk to strangers?

Yeah, we hear like 7 nos for every yes when we're growing up.

Yeah, and to the point where we're like, I don't want the rejection. Yeah, but rejection is really just an indication you, you're not talking to enough people.

Yeah, well, that's what— that's one of the nice things about sales is you can't go backwards. You can only go forwards, right? So rejection doesn't really hold much of a root on you. It's not like you're getting dragged down. You just have to move on to the next door.

Unless you are— unless you are getting dragged down. Unless you are like, you know, you have it— a no wired with me. I don't have a no It doesn't mean anything to who I am.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I'm working this deal right now and the guy calls me on the phone and says, man, I wish you told me this. And you know, there's other people pitching you, and because they pitch you and they're saying no to this, I'm like, dude, that's stupid.

Yeah.

Like, you got to know the difference between— most people around you are stupid, including me. They're, they're, they're in some moment of stupidity. Like, you're not— you can't be intelligent Perfectly right all the time. Some portion of the time I'm just an idiot. You love saying that.

Yeah, totally.

And so I need to know that about my friends, my associates, my partners, everybody around me. Everybody has it. But I could be catching Annie in one moment where she's just a dumb dumb. Her IQ went to 3. Yeah, right. So, so I'm on the phone with this guy, and this guy's been convinced— he's a TV producer— he's been convinced because 2 people told him, oh no, we already saw this. So he called me and said, "Oh, they're not buying it because they saw you already." That's got nothing to do with nothing. It's ridiculous. He's like, "Oh yeah, you're being overpitched." I'm like, "How many people told you this? Two. Okay. Are they buyers for the show without me? Do they want the TV show without me? We'll take me out of the deal. All I'm doing is removing the objection.

Yeah.

From oh no, they don't want the show anyway. So like this, they got nothing. They can't." Okay, this is stupid what you're saying. We'll get you some COVID. Yeah, that's stupid. Well, we know that we did this. We did it when COVID was busting off.

Yeah, right when COVID busted off.

Yeah, yeah.

But a lot of the best salespeople, they disguise themselves in other terms, right? Entrepreneur or business owner.

Real estate agent.

Real estate agent.

Mortgage broker.

Yeah, yeah. But selling in general. That's why a book like this is important though, because everybody's selling.

Everybody's—

well, are you not?

Or you're being sold, right?

You're being sold.

Yeah.

Okay, you're doing one of the two. You're either buying or you're selling. Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's no, there's no in between though. You're doing one or the other. And you're like, oh, I'm not doing anything right now, I'm just watching a podcast. Well, you're probably buying. You're buying. You just basically traded your time. Like, that's why free is such a phenomenon, right? When people are like, hey, come to my free webinar. Right, which we do, we do all the time. We have 248,000 people sign up for a free webinar and, and they, they think it's free, but I'm like, goddamn, don't they know what they're trading?

It's about the opportunity cost.

Your time.

Yeah, I will say though, I did buy one of your courses. I think it was, uh, $1,200 or so, and it had the best ROI probably of anything I've ever purchased.

Yeah, yeah, I think I made, you know, 100x, not even 10x.

I think I made 100x income. Yeah, by purchasing one of your courses and rolling through it for like 2 weeks.

Yeah. What'd you make from the one you didn't buy from me?

I didn't make anything.

Exactly. Everybody's like always measuring what they spend on stuff. I'm like, what about the shit you didn't buy?

Yeah.

Uh, what do you mean, bro? You missed so many opportunities on this planet to trade pieces of garbage paper. I don't have any money. John, you got any? I got—

you got cash right here.

I got credit limit on these.

But then this is just garbage. Yeah, it's garbage, right?

It's a skill set. I developed a skill set by following your material. Yeah, and that skill set will—

And you still take them? I can't take them from you, steal them from you, depreciate them. I can't rob you. I can't tax you for them. Whatever you got out of that program is yours forever. Nobody can rip you off from that.

Thank you, girl.

We're back.

We're back.

What's that? Look, I'm just trying to keep your attention. You guys got to be willing to— like, this is the point. I'm like, you have to— if you want to build a top of the funnel this big, you have to be— you have to keep attention. And I think in the Dale Carnegie book that you talked about, uh, he talks about being interested, not interesting. On this planet, if you miss the second part— yeah, interesting happens before interested. Because if I'm not interesting, you won't listen. I can't even get your attention so that I can be interested. So you have to be both. You have to be interesting in the sales cycle. You have to be interesting to get their attention. Hey, watch. Interesting. Hey man, this is a $3,000— $3,200 phone. $3,200. $3,000 a year. Probably gonna break it. See, I'm interesting in that moment.

Yeah.

And then I move to being interested about how would you use it? Do you know about the new camera? Okay. People are replacing $5,000 cameras with this phone, blah, blah, blah.

Mhmm. Have you ever read the, the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene?

I have not.

One of the laws is seek attention at all costs.

Wow. Yeah.

Wow.

I love that.

Yeah. And there's a lot of representation in history of that being, like, the key to success for a lot of people. And you do that better than anybody.

Yeah.

How do— so for somebody that says, I wanna be— for somebody that says, I wanna be the next Grant Cardone energy-wise.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you do that though? Because you walk down the hall, we heard you from a mile away.

You're yelling.

I love the energy.

You come down here, we feel good. Yeah.

How do you do that? Why are you so like, you know, infectious with the energy?

Well, I don't know that I am infectious, right? I was like, oh, yeah, you are. No, I mean, I don't know that, right? I don't know that, like, like, I'm not like, I'm not thinking about it.

But you're interesting. Yeah. So you're just interesting. It's in the blood somewhere or what?

I don't think it's in the blood.

I think it's developed.

Right? So, so I tried being the other guy, you know. I tried pleasing everybody in high school. I remember trying to get along with everybody, tried to be popular. Like, it was a disaster.

What advice?

I changed somebody else, man. I wasn't me anymore. I remember this girl I was dating once. I said, you know, I'll join the country club and, you know, get to know these guys. And she's like, yeah, you're gonna last about 3 days. You're just not that guy. Just be yourself and, and, and get used to being yourself.

Be willing—

don't be willing to get— don't be dumbed down. Don't be fixed from being you. But, um, you know, I have just figured out somehow how to create this Grant Cardone thing. Uh, I don't, I don't know exactly how I've done that, but yeah.

Oh, repetition though, right? You said you tried the other game and it didn't work.

You know what, dude, I, I ended up having a drug problem. You know, like, I didn't like myself. I looked in the mirror, I didn't like who I was. Look, I've always wanted to be rich. I've always wanted to write books. I've been wanting to write books since I was— I saw my dad write calligraphy when I was like 4 or 5 years old.

Oh, wow.

I was like, I want to write books one day. I'm gonna write. I'm gonna be a writer. My daughter wants to be a writer.

Yeah.

And maybe because I, I don't know, but, but I'm like, I've always had these dreams. Like, I wanted to be somebody, right? I wanted to make people proud. I wanted to be proud. And so I don't wake up like that. I wake up like, fuck, shit, that doesn't work today.

Yeah.

You know? So I'm sleeping in. I'm sleeping in. Maybe I'm getting a good dream at 8 o'clock in the morning. But, but, but, you know, once I get up, then I'm like, I need to move into this. I need to move in. Use one of those green laws that I need to get attention.

Yeah.

Because if you don't get attention on this planet, if you don't get attention, Uh, it's gonna be problematic.

I think, I think that's really important. So I like to humanize Grant Cardone. So when you came in the room, you were kind, respectful. We had 5, 10 minutes of conversation. Yeah, cameras were off. I mean, like, that's the Grant Cardone that I love.

Yeah, yeah.

That's not the Grant Cardone I see on Instagram all the time because you're building a billion, multi-billion dollar real estate Yeah. So like people, the reason that I've read all of your books— this is my favorite sales book on the planet.

Yeah, dude, this is the bomb.

It's the favorite sales book on the planet, and I've had 7 years in sales.

If anybody asks me my favorite book, this is my favorite book I've written.

Yeah.

I wrote this book in 3 hours. I mean, this book just flowed out of me. It was like, it was like spiritual, like it was like wham, kept coming out of me and it was done. Yeah.

And you worked with Greenleaf on that, by the way.

No, Greenleaf actually worked with me on that. So this was self-published in the beginning under a different title. Then we changed it to Sell or Be Sold. Uh, then we changed it to the red cover. And then again, I'm just being transparent. And then Greenleaf, uh, Greenleaf came along to help us get representation in airports.

Cool, cool.

And I'll just tell you a little trick, a marketing trick for your audience. Uh, if you've ever been to an airport and you've seen this book in the bookstore, you're like, hey, I saw your book in the bookstore. No, actually, you didn't see it in the bookstore. You saw it in the window. We only rented airports. We won't do that with COVID right now because there's nobody in there. Yeah, we only rented the windows. I'm like, bro, there ain't nobody going into the store, okay? People— yeah, there's no— past the store. They're like, well, you're not going to sell any books if it's in the window. Don't need to sell any books. I need to get attention for the book. They'll buy it later.

Yeah, I love that.

Every— yeah, it's, it's all, uh, in retail now there's a huge trend where you go into a shop, you try things on, you look, and then you go home and you buy Yeah, so I see where that's been.

That's cool. It's been happening to all of us for some time.

Yeah, but you know what's funny, man? In our demographic, you have ages 15 years old, there's some really cool kids, love personal development books. Yeah. Then you have age 45, 55, 65, but most of them are young. They don't realize the journey you go through to finally get to the point of having a multi-billion dollar syndication.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, like, that's the key. And I, you know, we were hanging out with your production crew here. They said you're the first one in the building.

Yeah. The video game's in the building. Yeah.

So I think that's an important message for our audience because it doesn't happen overnight.

Yeah, well, like today, I didn't come this morning. I wasn't at the office this morning. But like when I grind, like when I'm, when I'm at it, I'm at it. Like, I don't know what hour it is. I don't know. Like, we do whatever we have to do to get the ball down the field. People, people are tuning in to me today and seeing the jet and the properties that we're buying, but that's, you know, you didn't see all the suffering.

Well, you say on your socials too, you're like, I'm opening this up because I want everybody to see the hard work.

I want people—

I want everybody who shuts the door, it doesn't help.

Yeah, like the guy that just looks at one Instagram, sees me landing in St. Barts with my family. It's not that I don't show the rest. You just looked at one post.

Mm-hmm.

That guy just looked at one post and didn't dig deep. That's the problem with social media today. People are looking at a lot of different people, and you might not see me again for 10 days and see a similar thing, by the way. You should, you know, you should go deep on people.

Deep.

Go find out who they really are. Study them. Find out what they've really been through through their whole career, not just what you're seeing this moment. And so then decide whether you want to take that advice or not.

Yeah, I have one virtual sales— I've read a lot of sales books and I have one virtual sales mentor. It's this guy right here. And it's only because I've gone, but I followed the journey. And, uh, you know, that's all you need in life, I think, is a few different people that you, yeah, kind of rise up with, allow them to be mentors, read their stuff.

It's called too many chefs in the kitchen, you know, too many mentors in a line.

Yeah.

Most people have too many interests. They're getting advice from so many different places, they don't even know, okay, do I— should I be vegan or should I eat meat? Well, commit to one. Yeah, commit to one of them. Find out how your body responds. But stay vegan, like, stay meaty, whatever you want to do, do that. You, you think drugs will help you? Good. Fucking load up, load up. Just hammer yourself with them. Like, just like go at it big time and see what the results are. And then if it falls and your graphs start going down, you can't get up, you're losing friends, you're filing bankruptcy, uh, you're pissing on yourself, people are laughing at you, maybe you're like, hey, fucking drugs ain't that good for me. Maybe they're good for Joe Rogan, maybe they're good for Mike Tyson, but maybe they're just not good for you. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, who are some of your influences? Because who, who gets into your head and helps you make decisions?

Yeah, so, you know, too many people. Um, I mean, I mean that like, like the first thing I worry about is who's getting in my head.

Mm-hmm.

Because I've been— I trust me now. Like, the guy I need to trust is me. And, uh, I've been looking to everybody else, and along the way I picked, I picked some wrong people. So like when I was 29 years old, I started my first kind of made a move out of a job kind of into a consulting role working for a guy, and this guy was freaking brilliant. I mean, he's brilliant. He was eloquent. He was charismatic. He was like— he could walk— he could do a room of 300 people. I've never seen a speaker so good. And I was like, wow, you know. But what I didn't understand was the rest of his life. The rest of his life was just a disaster. And so, you know, the best— the best mentors I've had have actually been the negative The one I'm like, okay, I want that but not the rest. And I've learned a lot from watching people. I've watched professional speakers, watched part of their career, and then the right way they bring their business, I'm like, okay, great speaker, terrible businessman. So I'm like, okay, I don't want that, I don't want that, I don't want that. I mean, I know one of the top speakers on the planet, I'm like, great on stage, great marketer, don't want what he's created here. On the other end. So like, I take those pieces. Now the rest of my life, you know, studying real estate— like, I'm not studying individuals, I'm studying big companies. I'm not, I'm not studying some guy that bought 10 houses. I'm studying guys that built $100 billion of funds.

Yeah, well, you leveraged your, uh, communication skills that you worked on for your entire life, and now you're doing it at the highest value Asset that you could—

Yeah, like those 3 guys I just mentioned. I actually had mentioned 3 guys. Yeah, one guy was unbelievable on stage, second guy was a great marketer, and the third was a guy that— Sam Zell— that built Equity Residential and built out a multi-billion dollar, $100 billion real estate portfolio. So I'm actually those 3 individuals, uh, and, and, and each one of them gave me something that I studied, grabbed from, learned from, and start trying to duplicate.

Well, that's what's cool about a book like this for a young sales professional because I can filter my thought process through your head after I read the book. Right? I sell like Grant Cardone. You know, and that's, that's something that we get when you write a book. You know, Joe Schmo just came out of college. He's 21 years old. He wants to start selling. He can sell like you.

Yeah.

Totally. You know, he can filter that thought process. So that's a really cool way to look at that.

Yeah. The books are, for me, books are very, very difficult to for most people, right? For me, they're difficult. They take time and energy, second-guessing. And the book— but the book is a legacy piece, right? This book, I know this book, this book will be a favor to people 50 years from now more than it is today. Okay, I know. Don't you want that?

Yeah.

So, so, so, like, as you guys talk about it, I forgot about a lot of this stuff in the book, but it's the more we talk about it, I'm like, oh, I remember crisis. I remember writing Prices of Myth, that chapter, uh, chapter 6.

2012. I mean, it's a while ago.

Yeah, dude, it's 8 years. Yeah, right. 10x that, that'd be 80 years. This book's gonna be around a year. And, and the whole thing about Prices of Myth, for some of the more professional salespeople out there, you're like, hey, why did the guy leave with pricing the Apple phone twice? Like, some— most of them, 98% of the audience missed it. That I led with price. See, most of you put price at the end of the deal, and what you do is you're losing the attention of your audience that's interested in your product but hung up on how much it is. And if I'm in mystery, I can't close. In fact, if I'm in mystery, I can't listen. So what you do is you take somebody out of mystery, you fill it up. You basically— it's like Thanksgiving dinner. Boom, there's all this food out there, you're not hungry anymore. That's good. Take all the food out of the place, you're fucking starving. If I tell you, hey, we're gonna fast today, you're like, am I hungry already? Right? So that's the same thing, the sales cycle. You need to feed the beast. You don't— you cannot close an empty stomach, and you can't close an empty mind. So you got to fill the gap with— hey, how much is it? About $3,400. Now they're like, $3,400? Shit, man, I was about to argue about a grand. Yeah, I know that was $1,000, $1,100 for the phone, plus it's going to take years. I'm sure you're going to break it.

I'm handling that too, because I know it's an objection and you got to upsell out.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so no, that's cool because most people, they're excited, you know, right at the front. You kind of drill them down and then you build the excitement up and then it doesn't go back down at the end.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a, it's a really good like life cycle of the sale process to throw it out right up front.

And, and I want people to know they're with somebody different than the last guy that didn't want to bring it I've been in a workshop that did 40 minutes of a presentation only to bring price up at the end. Yeah.

So I didn't want to draw on all the different elements in here because it's like you're taking like little pieces when the whole thing is what creates or enables success.

Good point, by the way, because a lot of people take one piece and they agree or disagree with it, and that's a losing.

Yeah, no, everyone listening to our podcast should pick up the book and read the entire thing. But there are certain elements that are important, and one of those elements I think is conviction. So conviction and product and be. And I think there's always one part that's often missing.

Conviction and product and what?

And be. You have to be convicted in yourself. And I think a lot of young salespeople, they don't have conviction either in both elements or at least one.

Yeah, and you look, you need it in you, you need it in them. Product. You need it in the company. You need it in the price. Like, you've got— how, how can you become— let's say you're selling, um, you're selling a house for $3 million, and but you've never actually done the math on $3 million. Like, or, or you're selling a security system for $1,100, and you don't even know why anybody would want a security system. I remember I was 20, 23 years old. I was selling cars, and I was selling— I couldn't sell vans. And, and I could sell almost anything except a truck. I could sell sports cars. I could not sell a damn van. And the guy's like, dude, what's your problem with these vans? I'm like, why would anybody want a van? And they're like, oh man, it's cool, man. It's got 8 seats and it's got people going in. I'm like, why would anybody want one of these?

Yeah.

I don't know, because I wasn't sold on it. You know, there was things that I couldn't do at the beginning. I could sell to one person one-on-one because I practiced and trained and drilled and educated myself, role-played on one-on-one. Dude, if you added 2 people, if you added a husband and a wife or a wife and a husband, it fucked up. Yeah, it's like, uh, I didn't know who talked to me. Then I had to drill that. If you added kids, oh my God, so I had to actually— if they were young, I did better than with older people. Okay, so I had to actually role play talking to older people because I didn't know what to talk about.

But so this is a level of awareness.

25 years old, bro. I'm like, I need a geriatric conversation here, you know, with an older buyer that doesn't want to be cold.

In the book, you talk about awareness.

Like, I feel like a lot of young sales professionals, they wouldn't know the difference between, okay, I can sell to older people, but not younger people, because you're not studying the Yeah, you know, you got to study the game. And, and, and, and for me, that meant like I role-played every day, 1 hour before. Look, my team still does this. You guys should try to get some— you should get some footage of these guys role-playing to meet the speed roll. I don't know if you have any, John.

Okay, cool.

Every morning, those guys spend 40 minutes role-playing every day between the age of 23, 25, 25, and 29 years old, I role-played every single day, Monday through Saturday. I listened to tapes on the way to work every day, like it was, it was in my discipline. Role-played for about an hour every day on video so I could see how I was. Man, the price was too high. And I get this look on my face in the beginning, right? I'm like, dude, that, that— when I played back, I'm like, that doesn't look good when he says the price is too high and I start arguing with him. No, it's not. Yeah, that blows deals. And now today, if he tells me the price is too high, I'm like, I know that. I'm the one that told you. I'm the one that told you the price, and I'm the one that told you you're gonna break the phone. It's crazy and it's ridiculous, right? See, so how can a guy sell a $3,000 phone when you're buying a $200 phone? Everything you do is based on what the price is, and then you go to sell something. Everybody needs to hear this: how you buy is how you sell.

Mm-hmm.

And this goes back to that conviction, okay? How you buy things Is how you will sell things. If you take a long time to buy, your buyer will too. So you— the way to break that is you go out, you find something, you buy it right there, you pay too much for it right there, okay? You bring it home and then you realize you paid too much and you keep it and you don't go into buyer remorse. Because if you go into remorse, so is your buyer. And then you can tell people the next day when you're selling something, man, I never make a quick decision. Yeah, I used to be the same way. I used to take me months, months, weeks, take me days, weeks, months. I'd have to talk to people. I'd buy it and then bring it back. Okay, I'm freaked out the whole time. It used to happen to me all the time. And now what I do is I walk in, find out what I want, I buy it. Do you like it? Yes. Can you afford it?

Yes.

Good, let's do it. So I basically handle that based on what I did at Best Buy yesterday when I was over there.

Yeah, words of wisdom.

Words of wisdom.

Yeah. Oh man, I know we got to wrap up.

We're good, man.

We're good, man.

Couple more. All right, cool. Well, I got a finger. I got another meeting I got to go to, but but because I always got something.

Well, that means you like us. So that's a good thing.

Yeah.

Good stuff there. Yeah, yeah. So I know that you love debunking sales kind of stereotypes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So like like price is the master objection as a whole. Price is not the objection.

It's never an objection. Price and decision.

Yeah, what else? Decision.

Decision. Like, people, people don't want to make a decision, right? Well, that, that is a bigger issue, by the way, in life, is, is people don't believe in themselves. It goes back to having conviction. You have to understand that the seller doesn't have conviction in themselves, and the guy across from them, no matter who he is, he does not have conviction in himself. So like this watch I'm wearing right now, I'll just tell you the, the, the how I went through this. deal. I saw this watch. I actually saw— what I saw was, I forget the model number, maybe you guys can figure out what it is. The 40th anniversary Patek Philippe in white gold. It's a jumbo. They only made— you can look it up, right, John? They made 1,300. The watch is $400 grand or something. Like, if it was retail, came out of the box from Patek, like $100 grand. Today you can't, you know, you cannot buy it. Like, it's $5,976. $5,976. So, so I was like, how much is it? $400 grand. That is stupid, dude. That is ridiculous. I mean, that is insane. So I start shopping again. I said, hey, do you have the gold pad with the black face? He's like, yeah, and told me how much it was. Well, what I'm going through as a buyer, he is like, I don't believe in me now. I'm like, man, I'm not worth $180 grand. I mean, I'm not saying this to myself, but I'm like, it's stupid. It's ridiculous. Of course it is. Get stupid. I don't need this car on your wrist. I got a clock on this thing. I'm gonna pay $3,000 for this thing and I'm probably gonna break it. Yeah. And so, so, uh, so I waited. I went— the seller didn't know I'm going through this. If he had confronted it, if he had been like, dude, what is it you don't believe in? Can't be bad. I mean, they've been around for longer than you have. So it must be you, Ray. When's the last time you stepped the laundry? I'm like, uh, we're back on the first watch. What happened was I bought this watch, the cheaper watch, first. Bought the cheaper watch. Literally 24 hours later, I told the guy, send send big jumbo. I come I right send the big daddy. Okay. I literally objected about the price, but it wasn't about price. It was about my. Ability to make a good decision. Now, after I made the decision, I know I bought the right watches. I would do it again. I should have done it quicker because I feel better about it. But my point is, he could have literally handled the decision phenomenon. It's a phenomenon that the individual, the buyer, goes through by just saying, "Brad, let me ask you something, man. Okay, clearly, I mean, you called me about the watch. That's been around 200 years. Is it me you don't believe in? Is it you you don't believe in? Or is it Pat if you don't?" What do you mean? No, dude, you're good. I believe in you. I think I think you're straight shooting. I mean, I know you're making money on what damn watches. I mean, why else would you be stuck? Patty, it's the only watch I want.

I don't want.

I don't want a Richard. I want that. Okay, good. So grants it you. You don't believe in you. You're not worth it. When's the last time you spent four hundred grand in life? Well, dude, like like plane. Plane's fifty. Neil. Okay, because the plane costs the plane. The plane costs $3 million a year not to fly. Okay, the plane will depreciate $4 or $5 million every year whether I even run it or not. Give me a break.

Yeah.

See, I just need to work through it in my head, you know. But again, that goes back to how do you communicate to people if you're trying to avoid price, evade price, or even make sense of price? Like, why try to justify it? When my problem's not with price, my problem is with me.

Yeah, I love the story when you were getting real estate in California and you had a buddy who you said he asked you the question, what is your budget? Yeah, I don't know, $2 million. And next thing you know, you're buying places for what, $8 million?

Yeah, $8.3 million, and I sold it for $18 million because of you. She was in it. It was me and each other. I dated her sister Debbie, and, and, but Mimi, Mimi, Mimi got the first half of the game right, which was she showed me a place I couldn't afford in my mind. She's like, Grant, there's no way you're going to buy the place. I know you want to spend $2 million. It's $8 million, $8.3 million. Just go look at it. She did the first half right. She got me to the property. Then I'm like, I'm so— I'm walking in the place and I'm making decisions. I'm gonna buy this place. So I gotta figure out how to buy it now. So I'm walking through how to buy the place. How do I buy the place, right? And, and maybe he doesn't have to do anything. They just need to quit telling me that it's not a lot of money, because the truth is, it is a lot of money. When they object, you gotta say price is a myth, man. Grant, could you come up with the payments? Could you come up with the money? What if we could get you the mortgage?

Okay.

Grant, what if you knew this place was going to double? Grant, what if it was zero and cost you nothing? Uh, dude, I'd buy it. Okay, well, we did buy a place and we did make a bunch of money, but the point is that the agent, the agent or the salesperson needs to understand that price is a myth. It is completely made up and contrived. It is by everyone. And, and, uh, the, the best things— the other thing I'll tell you guys is the best things I've ever bought We're too expensive. That's my issue, actually.

What? I just buy things that are a little bit too expensive all the time because the seller shows those properties and you fall in love with them. And how can you not? Because you're betting on yourself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you're able to create enough income. Yeah.

But both of you guys have the right mindset though, which is how can I afford it, not I can't afford it.

Yeah. How can I do this?

How, you know, you actually— I'm sorry to cut you off.

Sorry.

You actually, uh, had a big moment in my life Because I was 24 years old and I had a lot of peers who were out there and they're budgeting and doing all these different things. I was reading your content and you were saying, you know, not forget the budgeting, go and focus on where you're going to create income. Yes. And then you shared some numbers and it's like, duh. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, like the point he's making, like, this is a game changer for everybody. It was a game changer for me because I was managing my budget when I was in my 40s. Like, my big thing has only happened in the last 10 or 11 years. This has not been 32 years of wins and victories. Um, in the first 20 years of my business career, I was managing money. And when you see the TV show Undercover Billionaire in January, you're going to see me— you'll see me make more money in 90 days than I made the first 20 years I was in business. In 90 days in a town I've never been to.

What's the secret?

Without my name, by the way. I couldn't use my name. Yeah, I was Luke's card. But the point is, uh, when you manage money, if you're— if you have $8,000 or $80,000, whatever the number is, it's going to zero. Okay, when you create money, it can go exponentially as high as you can think and dream and work. And when you manage money, this is what most people in America are doing all the time. They're managing I don't have the budget. I don't have the budget. Budget's complete bullshit, by the way. When a customer tells you they're on a budget, you know for sure they can be closed. I know for sure. You just mentioned the B-word. Mention the B-word one time, I'm like, I'm dropping it. Kids deal with it. No, no, no. I guarantee it. Because anybody looking at their budget has been in trouble before because they spent money. Budget, budget is basically a tell. In poker, there's tells. The word budget is a tell for a consumer that buys too much, because who else would have a budget? You only have a budget when you needed one, and you only need one because you spent too much. And then somebody said, you need a budget. No, no, you need to make more money.

Yeah, that was a monumental, uh, point in my life. Yeah, yeah, you made me some money. Actually, you bought me this watch.

Dude, I like that watch. Is that the blue face?

It's a blue face. It's not the green I saw on yesterday. Yeah, that's the Burberry. Twenty-five.

It's a Burberry.

That's awesome.

He's awesome.

Looks nice. Good.

He's a tall.

He's a tall.

Hey, you know what's funny? I'm twenty-nine. Yeah, so are you, dude. We're making the transition right now from sales to entrepreneur.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. About a year ago.

Yeah. And so you almost gotta restart the engine.

It's just a different deal.

No, it's just a totally different deal, but you need the same elements that create your success.

I spent too long in this. Like, like, if I look— if I did my career all over again, when I was writing this, I was like, sales, you got to be a salesman, you got to be a salesman. You know, you need to be— somebody in the organization needs to be a salesperson, but you got— you guys, all of you need to start thinking like entrepreneurs. And that is the, uh, this, this piece of garbage that, that I did an interview with in the West Coast. Funny you mentioned his name because He's gorgeous. But he kept talking about sales. I'm like, bro, you're a fucking broken record. Like, you were talking about sales 20 years ago, you're still talking about it. Like, when are you going to build a business? Oh, I can see you ain't because you're still officing out of your little fucking house. At some point, if you're a real deal, you won't be in your house anymore. He's 50 years old and All his 1099 employees are 12 and pays them commission only. No, you know, there's no wage, there's no salary, there's no benefits. I got 150 people. This is a serious operation. We got 350 people in the real estate office.

Beautiful office.

At some point you got to go from commissions to fucking owning a business and running a business and managing the expansion of the business and partnerships and franchises. And trademarks, and you know, like you're gonna you're gonna grow up. I mean, we can start as salespeople, but sooner or later, you know, Jeff Bezos has got to become a businessman, not just a book salesman.

Steve Jobs, a big sales guy. Big sales guy. Bill Gates, big Bill Gates. Total sales guy.

Total sales guy. Total sales. Okay, under the disguise of a coder. I'm a coder. You know, Bill Gates is a great example because he. Somebody said once, they said, uh, Bill, Bill, you know, our, our Microsoft is not like— it's not the best software. And it wasn't, by the way. Apple was still better back then. It's 30 years ago. Bill says, if it ain't the best, make sure we make it look like the best. And on top of that, make sure it's everywhere. When China was ripping Microsoft off, Bill Gates said If they're going to rip anybody up, make sure it's us. We'll get the money later. That guy's a killer.

You and Bill actually have another thing in common too. You guys both oversell and then overdeliver as compared to undersell and overdeliver, which is like another sales thing that people teach the wrong way, right? Like, yeah, you're always going out there and stretching the line a little bit, but then you overdeliver.

Yeah, the old adage about, I want to, you know, I'll grant I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver. Bro, you don't overpromise, you're never going to deliver. Yeah, you better overpromise to me. You better overpromise to me. And, and, you know, you better— you know, the guy that sold me this watch, he's like, Grant, I guarantee you're gonna make money. Grant, I guarantee you're gonna make money. Grant, I guarantee you can make money. Grant, if you don't make money on this watch, I'll pay you the difference. I'll pay you the loss. Okay, I'll buy the watch back. Like, he was so convicted. Can he promise me that really? Probably not. But did he? Yes, he did. Overpromise, overdeliver, and then do the right thing. If the watch is going to be worth less money in the future, or the house is going to be worth less, or the ranch is going to be— whatever you're selling, the phone's going to be worth, or it's going to break, tell them. Okay, but you're going to take some badass pictures, man, of yourself. Yeah, best selfie in the world right here. Let's get one right now, by the way, the boys.

Okay, let's get one.

Don't forget we got some Yeah, see, I might sell that picture and get my three grand. I bet you can have that picture for three grand, huh? You can have it. Yeah.

You jump on our Instagram story. I'm sure somebody will buy that for three grand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd also die of conviction, man. You'd also die of conviction.

Yeah. Can't believe it, dude. Price of death, man. You'll find somebody popping the funnel. If you can fill the top of that funnel up, that wiring up, you'll find. We were doing a— we were doing a podcast, uh, 13,000 people online.

Oh yeah.

Somebody asked me about price. I'm like, guys, price is this much dumb, ridiculous— it's like Casper the Ghost, it's like the boogeyman, it's not even real. They're like, what do you mean it's not real? Okay, watch. What was it, taco shells? I said, go get something out of my refrigerator. Okay, somebody comes back with taco shells. Who wants them? Grant Cardo Taco Chef, refrigerated, signed box. Signed box. What are you selling for? $1,300? $2,000? $2,000. And my daughter threw in a couple little handmade, uh, handmade, uh, glass wine glasses that she, she, she painted on. It's a myth, man. I probably could have sold it for $20.

That's funny.

You gotta have an audience first. Yeah, right. And the bigger the audience— and you guys are growing up at a time where, dude, man, it is like, this is the time.

Well, that law of seek attention at all costs, like, yeah.

And back then when that dude wrote the book, whatever his name is, Robert Greene, whatever, and, and, and that day, like, there was no Instagram or internet. Yeah, doing this deal. So today when you say, man, get attention at all costs, It's the reason why we're here today with you.

Yeah, you know, we contribute, build a big enough audience that we have an opportunity.

Yeah, and then, and that's the, that's the game. The game is to tag with other people, like get on my, you know, you're gonna get on my 6 million, use my name, tag me, right? And then people are gonna watch it. Oh wow, it's gonna lift your brand. I'm gonna jump on Discovery, 60 million followers. They'll lift my brand, right? And then you keep playing tag.

Call it borrowing credibility.

Yeah, exactly. Don't, don't, don't— that's the other thing I'm talking about. Don't try to do this alone. Don't even read a book alone. You want to get— you want to get a million dollars worth of value out of the book? Get a book, buy 10 of them, put 10 guys in a room, 10 gals in a room, 10 friends in a room, and mastermind the book over 10 weeks.

I, uh, I did this thing where I wrote down one, one goal that I had and one thing I'm grateful For every day for, uh, about 400 days.

Wow.

And he was my accountability partner, and that is what made the transition. That's what made the transition from sales to entrepreneur.

Yeah, I think, uh, I'm not sure who in the Bible says this because I'm not that good, but he says, uh, he says that when 2 or more gather in, in the, in, you know, to pray about or think about or do the same thing, miracles Right. It's when 2 or more stop, don't do anything at all. So whether it's a book, like, I, you know, when I role-play, we take a piece of content off this video program that I bought, it was 3 grand back when I was 25, and me and another guy would buddy up and role-play and work it out, right? And it doubled or tripled or 10x.

Yeah, in the book Thinking Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill says that if you put 2 people in the same room and they're working together, It's like a third mind that comes. So one plus one equals three.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

What about the Clydesdales?

Yeah, Elena's book. Yeah, Elena. I steal that from Elena all the time. I'll say that for Elena. Yeah. Is she here? Yeah. She's Elena here. Okay, good. You guys done with me now?

Yes.

I warmed up. I warmed up the thing. I got Elena coming in. She'll get get together guys the rest. I really appreciate you guys. You know, book thinkers and appreciate appreciate the encouragement people read books and.

Well, we appreciate you, man. Thank you for the time.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.