56. Thomas Dubois: Author of Cutting Through the BS

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to episode number 56 of our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, I interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In this episode, I have the pleasure to interview author Thomas Dubois. Thomas went from being homeless, walking the streets of Houston with his clothes in a plastic trash bag, to now more than 20 years of remarkable success. He has also helped thousands of people in the industry he loves— network marketing. Our conversation today is all about his brand new release, Cutting Through the BS for the Love of Network Marketing. This is a great fit for our audience because many people ask me for advice on different business strategies that offer flexibility, higher pay, and potentially a remote lifestyle. Network marketing is a great fit for all of those things. And you'll hear about my experience in the industry during today's show. Please enjoy this amazing conversation with Thomas Dubois. Well, Thomas, thank you so much for coming on to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. How are you doing today?

Man, I'm doing awesome. How about yourself?

I'm doing really well as well. I'm excited for our conversation today. For those in the audience that aren't familiar with you or your book or your work or your businesses, Could you introduce yourself to everybody?

You bet. You bet. My name is Thomas Dubois. I live in Glenwood Springs, Colorado. I am born and raised here in Colorado, lived a few years in Texas, but I am a Colorado native. So, I love the mountains. Well, gosh, I am a multiple business owner today. I come from a background of, in my adult life, early adult life, not making all of the right decisions in life. And we will probably get into some of that. Um, but, uh, um, through, um, the network marketing industry, which, um, my book's all about, I learned that, um, even a guy like me could, uh, pull success into their life. And, and we call it, um, we call it a business, uh, education, um, with a paycheck. And, uh, you know, it's, uh, just, I love the industry of network marketing, and I wrote a book, um, called Cutting Through the BS for the Love of Network Marketing.

Well, I love a lot of what you just mentioned. And we're going to unpack a few of those things individually. So the book Cutting Through the BS for the Love of Network Marketing, what called you to write this book? Why did you decide to become an author?

Well, to become an author was knowing— was some of the learnings that I've had throughout my entrepreneurial career that when you're uncomfortable about doing something, probably do it because it's probably where your rewards are going to sit, right? But the truth is, is I've watched so many good people, young, old, so many people not pursue the network marketing industry because of wrong expectations being set by either leaders, you know, the old, I promise you'll make a million in 2 days, just come with me, you know, type of thing. Or, or, or as well said in the industry, the brother-in-law, oh, that's a scam, you know, type of thing. And so I, I want to create a whole teaching around cutting through the BS of For the Love of Network Marketing beyond even the book, beyond even the book, about, um, uh, always how, you know, how to put those things aside to get the right expectations put in people's hands so that— because, because I've seen too many people give up and fail right away because they've been set the wrong expectations. Or so, so, so most don't really get started, right? Or their dreams stolen when, when, when they ask somebody about it, um, that somebody else failed on their own credibility. So timing's everything when, when we make decisions in our life. And I believe, um, being influenced incorrectly Um, makes me almost tearful, um, at how many people I believe lives could be changed from this industry that were stolen because somebody, um, was either greedy with wrong expectations, okay, and was trying to get a yes to get a sale, or somebody that, um, portrayed their own wrong expectations.

Okay.

I call it the dream stealer, as we've well heard in life. but the person that, um, isn't willing to do what it takes to get successful. And so, um, so they know that they're gonna— that if somebody has the success that we talk about in network marketing, that I've achieved, that others have achieved, that we're gonna leave them behind. And, you know, the truth is we're probably gonna leave them behind.

Well, I love that you just brought up the tears part because you say in the book, like, if your why doesn't make you cry, then it's not a strong enough why.

Right.

And your why for the book, I mean, if it doesn't make you cry, it's not a strong enough why. What I'm realizing as I just listened to you talk about that is that we both sit in a very similar position. I'm in an industry that I call self-help or personal development where it's constantly criticized as a get-rich-quick industry. And a lot of the same names that you address in the beginning of the book, pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, the NFL club, the No Friends Left Club, right? Among all of those other things, those things get applied to my industry too, and this podcast and everything that I do on a daily basis. And it's part of my mission as I write my first book over the next 12 to 16 months to address all of those things in the very same way that you address them in your book. So, we're sort of cut from the same cloth. I love it.

Yeah.

Let's jump into your story. In the beginning of the book, you say 1999. Drug and Rehabilitation Center. Let's go back to that moment in time and start your story from there. So, can you paint that picture for us?

You bet, you bet. I, I, I always start this story off with, at the age of 14, going into, going into high school, um, basically 15 going into high school, um, a parent wanted to be a friend more than apparent and, um, got the whole class drunk. And I was a person that— I don't blame that person at all. It was inevitable because drinking was a rite of passage for our community of people, for my brothers. And I come from 6 siblings. Um, so, so only claim all that on me. But that was the first night And from that night, I stayed drunk for 23 years. And so, um, so, and, and through that time, um, gained more addictions, um, and cocaine being a drug of choice. So they call me Tommy Boy. They say I, I look like Chris Farley a little bit. We have a little fun with that. Yet, um, I don't want to go out like him. And so, um, so I love, I love Tommy Boy, and I, and, and we do stuff from stage all the time. Um, you know, comparing and having some fun with it. So I'll have some fun with his great career. Yet, um, I've been sober now for 20 years. Um, I would not have received the entrepreneurial lifestyle, um, because I believe lifestyle comes from being an entrepreneur. Um, that, uh, a job creation does not create very many, um, or very, very few, um, people with lifestyle. And, uh, and, and if so, then you're one of the lucky, and, and I praise and commend that. Yet, um, I found that entrepreneurialism is the difference. With that being said, is, um, my addiction, um, got me to be who I am today. Um, I support a ministry called Step 7 for sober living homes that, um, have a lot of stories behind, but the 12-step program of Alcoholics Anonymous has changed my life. And 3 years after finally getting sober, that it stuck for the last— in November, I'll be 20 years sober. And I hope to change as many people's lives as I can with that testimony and with the testimony of falling into network marketing along that sobriety line that literally changed my financial future.

It's an amazing testimonial for what you can go through. And one of my favorite authors, his name is Evan Carmichael. He has this line where he says, your purpose comes from your pain. And it sounds like your purpose comes directly from the pain that you experienced for a very long period of time. And it seems like the inflection point for you, based on what I read in the book, was your family's angel. So, tell everybody how you got introduced to network marketing.

Well, and that gentleman, his name is Eric Bakewell. And I don't want to, I shouldn't do this, but I don't think he'll mind. But I met him in the program of recovery. And so I met him in the program of recovery, and he was a pillar of success to me. And my brother actually had the perfect storm. My brother owned a company called Dubois Tree Service. On that day, 2 people didn't show up for work. He had a workman's comp audit sitting on the desk. Eric called him and said, are you open to an opportunity? And my brother— I, I know my brother like the back of my hand. I love him. His name's Bob. And, and, uh, um, he would have never looked if it wasn't for that perfect storm. And that's how God works, in my opinion. And so, but Bob looked. He actually looked in a closet so that nobody else would see him looking. So, so it was a tool closet. So they went down there so that my dad wouldn't see, and, and, and they, and they looked at the network marketing opportunity. My brother got involved and, um, and, and cared enough about me to involve me. Because anytime that I'm sharing a business with somebody and an opportunity— some people don't get this one, this is one of the misnomers— is we care about you enough to share an opportunity to change your financial future as it has ours.

So you're getting me excited about it. So the Book Thinkers audience, as we discussed, is primarily young professionals. A lot of people get involved in my industry, in my podcast, because they're looking for an opportunity to solve a problem. The most common problem is financial. There's a difference between where people are today and where they see themselves. There's unfulfilled potential there. So let's talk a little bit about livable income. How does network marketing fit into somebody's lifestyle and who's a good candidate for it?

You know, I, I love, I, I love that you brought that up because I, I remember at 18, because I, I, you know, I was waiting tables every day trying to trying to, um, uh, live my life because I needed daily money because of my addictions. But with that, I, I would, because I was pretty good at, at that, you know, um, you know, I was a leader in my own right as National Junior Otter Society class president in junior high, you know. Um, and so that led on through throughout even with my addiction. But, but my point, um, being is, is that I remember at 18 being hit up all the time by network marketing people. You know, because of my personality. And, uh, and so, but I didn't get it. I didn't understand what I had my hands on. Looking back, I wish I did, because this industry, one of the beautiful things about it, it's a free, you know, personal growth with a paycheck.

Yeah.

So as I'm getting personal growth, I can get paid for it, man, you know? And I just love that. I, I love that. And a lot of people don't realize, hey, if people would realize that network marketing is a stepping stone to everything that you want financially, It might not be that company. It might not be that first company. Just so happened for me that I was with that first company for 15 years. So, so I landed, um, well. And I'm not one to jump around, you know, when I give my commitments, um, and, you know, I give them. And livable income is very important to me. I'm so glad that you caught that out of the book.

Yeah.

You know, because it's such an important point, because all of the wrong expectations have people thinking that they're supposed to be a billionaire the first year. And, uh, and, and, you know, the truth is I, I wasn't making 6 figures, um, until multiple years into the industry. Now I was making a better livable income than my regular income was. So a year or 2 into network marketing, I was able to walk away. And there's a, there's a rule of thumb. If you can take your regular paychecks and put them in a drawer pay all of your bills for 6 months with— pay all of your bills for 6 months with your network marketing business. Now maybe you can walk away and go full-time. But as Jim Rohn says, nobody wants to give up their part-time story.

Yeah.

This part-time, look what I've done part-time, you know, here in network marketing. But the livable income part of it is really important. It's really important because if I can set livable income goals, And I can grab a hold of them and I can chew on them. Now I can start setting 6 and 7-figure goals. And network marketing is a 7-figure industry for the right, right individuals that want to understand that. But I have to— but I have to reach the goals along the way.

No, it's a— the livable income piece was really important for me because again, I see the parallels between what you're trying to address and what I'm about to address. with my first book. So many people in this industry write books with unrealistic expectations, and it forces people, uh, or it pushes people down and makes them submit and think that they're not good enough, you know. And like, that happens in network marketing too. I love that your industry specifically, network marketing, gives people the opportunity to start a business with, you know, almost no like capital investment. And so I'll share a quick story, as I mentioned I was going to do with everybody. When I was in college, I went to the University of New Hampshire. I was pursuing a business degree, really didn't know what I wanted to do with it, but I thought, okay, business, like I'd like to get involved in this. And I saw a flyer in the Memorial Union building at the University of New Hampshire, and I grabbed it and it said, run your own business for the summer. And so I eventually committed to this thing where I ran my own house painting business for 2 summers. It was turnkey, to use the phrasing that we talked about before. This business provided me an opportunity to run my own business and learn these skills, learn real business skills while making money during college.

Right.

And so it's almost like the multi-level or network marketing kind of setup. It was turnkey. And I loved that industry. And I received so much feedback from friends and family saying the same things. This is a Ponzi scheme. This is a pyramid scheme. You're not actually going to make any money. These people are taking advantage of you. But you know what? I made more money than any of my friends at college did over the summers. I gained more experience than any of my friends did. And wow, what an amazing experience. I wouldn't trade it for the world. And I still hang out with the people I worked with that ran their own businesses as well. And I still hang out with my mentors at the time, you know, my hosts. So yeah, what a, what a brilliant industry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For, you know, 90% of the businesses have a way to, to start for less than a couple hundred bucks, you know, going up to packages that are a couple of thousand. But if you put it in, in, in, in regards to starting another business, I just use the example of starting my dog grooming shop that I actually bought because of my success. See, I bought a shop in Aspen, Colorado, and if anybody knows anything about Aspen, Colorado, and living here, um, in Colorado, when we think about Aspen, we think about, um, a $10 bottle of water, you know. And that being the case, that, that was a fear, right? But because, um, I already had success of livable income of network marketing I could make moves that were risky because my bills were paid for regardless. And bought a dog grooming shop in Aspen where on a weekly basis at Barking Beauty's Dog Spa, on a weekly basis, those, those people take care of their dogs. And so ended up being another great business. But it all led out of, as you say, being turnkey, not having any knowledge of how to run a business or become an entrepreneur, reading the books that they would mention and, and talk about. studying John Maxwell, studying, you know, Jim Rohn, studying Anthony Robbins, going, taking teams of people to Anthony Robbins, having lots of fun learning, you know, what it takes to be an overcomer. And sometimes it's just overcoming the mind. And all of that happened in that process for me, starting, I think I started, I think with $98. is what I started my network marketing career in and had a payment that I had to make monthly of under $100. And that's how I started my network marketing career. From there, it brought me into 6 and 7 figures.

Yeah. Such an amazing opportunity for people. And one of my other favorite things that you say in the book is that everybody is equal in this industry. So, what do you mean by that?

Well, you know, kind of a visual on that one. But But, you know, everybody claims that they— that network marketing is a pyramid. And, you know, it really breaks my heart there's bloggers out there that actually get paid per click to tell you that it is a pyramid, even if it's the best company in the world. You know, the company I was with for 15 years, still striving after 23 years, they, um, still call it a pyramid, still call it a scam. You know, it's really— it's really the truth. That in regular corporate America or regular businesses, it is, it is like this, that, that, that very few can make it to the top. And I, as an employee, usually am not— my employees are not going to make as much as me at Mark and Beauty's, you know, that's a period. And in most businesses, they're not. So very few make it to the top. Here, the truth is is that everybody starting equal at the bottom have the same opportunity to make it to the top as anybody else if they're willing to do whatever it takes. That's, that's the big part, is, is network marketing is not a get-rich-quick industry. Network marketing is an opportunity of equality, of, of ease, of of everything being laid out for you. And there is a map. Every business that is successful, from the greatest of the greatest, Mr. Amway. You know, everybody wants to say, oh, I got ripped off in Amway. And I laugh at that. I said, nobody— you didn't get ripped off at anything. Amway is the most successful, one of the most successful businesses in the world, and their personal growth is bar none the top, uh, you know, and incredible. But they paved the, the, the— they paved the road so that the companies that I've been involved with, the companies I'm involved with now, could do what they do. So I love, I love that they fought the good fight because they did. They, they, they had to fight against the government. They had to fight the good fight so that a guy like me who had nothing, actually was homeless back in my addiction days, um, uh, and go from couch to couch sometimes. But I— that a guy like me could step in, start to learn that reading a book is a good thing. And who would have thunk it that someday I'd write a book about the industry that I love?

Hello, Book Thinkers family. A quick word from today's podcast sponsor. Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audiobooks. Ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, business, and my favorite, personal development. And as part of Audible's partnership with us, we're actually offering listeners a free 30-day trial. This trial includes one credit good for any Premium Selection titles you'd like on the whole platform. So that's pretty much any book, including the one we're talking about today. That book is yours to keep even after the trial is over. Now, this trial also includes access to Audible's Plus catalog of podcasts, audiobooks, guided wellness programs, and Audible Originals. You can listen all you want, no credits needed. Now everyone on the Book Thinkers Instagram knows that I love physical paper books. There's nothing better than having a book in your hand, scribbling notes everywhere in the margins. I kind of tear those things up, but I've been completing an additional 20 to 30 books every single year using Audible by listening when I'm in the car, doing chores around the house, Or while I'm on my morning walks or runs. You could take advantage of this free trial by clicking the link in today's show notes or going to www.bookthinkers.com/audibletrial. You will not regret it. Now, back to today's episode. Beautiful circle of life. So we'll go one more time into this personal growth with a paycheck thing because again, I think a lot of people in this audience are looking for opportunities And I love that Gary Vaynerchuk, an entrepreneur in the media space, says, listen, you have your full-time job, you should get a part-time job. And your full-time job should really like teach you skills along the way that are going to eventually contribute to your part-time job. And so I look at network marketing and what I did with this painting business as an opportunity to learn like these amazing skills that can apply to virtually anything you want to do in life. Anything you want to do in life.

Right.

And so through this painting job, this 2 summers running the painting business, my personal development in every area got better. My communication skills improved, my sales and marketing skills improved, my management skills improved, my project management skills improved, you know, different from my people management skills, my budgeting skills improved, my finance skills improved. It's just like you could go on and on and on and on. And it sounds like this industry offers the same thing for people. Like, you have the opportunity to virtually improve every area of your life while you're making money.

Absolutely. I, I feel that the right leadership, the right skill sets are taught throughout this industry. You know, kind of as you said, I'll, I'll go to bet that what I'm about to say, that you would equate this to, if I ever needed to. So, so think about this for all the that get depressed or get upset, um, uh, for— or get stuck for any reason. But I feel I don't ever have to go that low because you could drop me in any city at any time with nothing, and I would find my way to success through sales and network marketing and the skills that I've learned. Whether I hit rock bottom because of pandemic or whatever the case may be, that I can come out of that very successful. Where I bet you say, um, you could, um, start another painting business like that overnight and bring your, bring your future to a, a new start in a new role. Network marketing offers that at a very minimal cost, um, with not minimal effort. That's one of the misnomers. Is if you're willing to do whatever it takes to have the better things in life, it's, it's temporary sacrifice for a lifetime of convenience. Because I'm still getting paid by multiple businesses that, that I don't spend a lot of time with, um, uh, you know, because this industry offers true residual at times. And also, um, my number one goal— money while we sleep money. You know, I like to make money while I'm sleeping.

Well, I definitely agree. I could get dropped off anywhere on this planet, and maybe depending on language barriers, but I could start a painting business and I'd be very successful at it. At least I think I would. I'm confident in that. So you just mentioned another one of those misnomers, that the hard work piece, right? The overnight success piece. So let's set some expectations for anybody in the audience that might be interested in, in getting involved in network marketing. What's the typical timeline look like before somebody becomes an overnight success?

Well, you know, yes, yes, their skill set does make a difference. And anybody that wants to say so, I just, you know, it drives me crazy. But, but if a system's in place, skill set should not be the answer to success. Because if anybody will follow a system that I present, I call it Easy Peasy System. Where if, if I, if I ask somebody, if I send you a video, would you watch it type of, type of scenario? Or if I plug you into a Facebook page, would you check out the testimonies? Or if I, will you? If I, will you? And if they do, then I follow up with a third-party call and I don't have to have any skill set. And, um, or I follow up, um, you know, uh, ad tag marketing on Facebook. So So there's all this new stuff that I'm learning. To the old school was, and this is a true story, I made $50,000 in 30 days when I first got into cryptocurrency. I didn't even know what blockchain technology was. I didn't know what crypto— I didn't know if I should say cryptocurrency or I should say digital currency. I thought I was saying all the wrong terms. So what I would do is, hey, you might know more about Bitcoin than me. I don't know much about it. but check out this 10-minute video, and I'm going to call you— I'm going to call you in just a little bit. And I'd call them up with a third party on the phone that did have answers. And guess how I learned? I learned by listening to their questions. And many people knew more about cryptocurrency than I did, but I learned by them answer— ask that question and answer. That's how I learned. And, um, I made $48,000 in my first month And I had no clue, no clue what cryptocurrency was. Didn't know who, uh, you know, I, I knew about the Bitcoin pizza story, you know, and that, and that was it, man. I, I knew that somebody, um, uh, made a bad mistake by buying, buying a pizza for 10,000 Bitcoin, because at $60,000 a coin right now, they made a bad mistake. But no, no, but, but that's all I knew. And so with no skill set. Well, maybe some skill set enough to know, um, from the industry that if I followed the system, I could still be successful. And also, if, if you're willing to go through the numbers with a lot of activity, you can develop skill set. So as long as you're— as long as the, the 2 evil letters don't bother you, N-O, you know, as long as you can put the same emotion to a no as you can a yes Um, you know, great author on that is Go for No. Um, it's a great book called Go for No, and, uh, and they have a whole campaign around their, their book.

Yeah, we've actually, we've actually worked with Andrea before at Bookface.

Oh, have you? She's amazing. I've had her— my brother had her on one of our team calls once. Oh, I love that. Yeah, and, and I actually, on my tool tables— well, we don't do too many hotel showings anymore, But on my tool tables, I have stacks of her— of Go For No. I love that. It's another one that sets the right expectations, right?

Yeah, it does. Well, one more thing on the expectations. I'm curious how you would answer this question. So somebody in the audience is interested in getting involved in network marketing. And maybe they've got a friend or family member that's involved, and they want to go explore that path. And I'm sure that it varies. But my question is, How much time does somebody need to dedicate on a weekly or monthly basis to a side hustle and for how long before it can become a full-time hustle? Like, it's a very tough question because it depends on skill set and the product that you're getting involved with in a company, but like on average, what's that expectation setting for you?

Well, you know, in my book I actually have a tool that can help everybody to set that expectation for themselves. And it— and I call it the Tommy T.

Yeah.

But to be honest, it's stolen. It's the Franklin T. So it's, it's a sales tool of cost versus benefits. So they can, they can set their own expectations for the amount of money that they want to make and, and, and what they want out of that. So they're setting their why at the same time as doing this 10-minute exercise, and they're setting their why. And then over here, we put in there, if you will spend 8, you know, this amount of time, I would say 8 to 10 real hours a week could, could get somebody off to a very, very strong start, followed by, um, uh, followed by following instructions in that process. But when I say 8 to 10 hours of real time, um, in this day and age, people have trouble fathoming that. See, I truly did build my business at 10 to 15 minute increments. 2 or 3 times a day, leading into inviting people to a presentation at the evening that I didn't even need to do, or sending a video. Then carving out what I call an hour of power, of— and then I get a leader on with me to, to do follow-ups. And, and follow-ups, by the way, is key to all success. You following up with me got me here. Me following up with you got me on here to have more success. So follow up, follow up, follow up, you know, is the key to life in my— in business, in my opinion. But, you know, if you're gonna give somebody 5 minutes of your time, they deserve follow-up to see if they like it or not. So anyway, with that, 8 to 10 hours a week solid, you know, giving yourself a way to follow the system in place in whatever company that is, um, carving out and setting goals, and setting goals that are daily, setting goals that are weekly, you know, setting goals that are monthly. So my first round of goal setting went from what I wanted— I wanted to have tens of thousands of people in my business that I led 5 years from now. I cut that down to 2 years. I cut that down to a year. I cut that down to 6 months. And I just wrote one sentence of what I wanted that to look at. And I took it all the way down to a daily. And that sat on my, on my regular business's office right here so that I saw those goals on a daily basis. And as Darren Hardy so well says, if you're— if you can't put your goals on your mind's eye every day, you're probably, you're probably not reaching for.

Darren Hardy, The Compound Effect, one of my favorite books. I mean, it's had probably the biggest impact on my life.

It's up there.

Yeah, I love it.

I love it.

Well, this is a good transition from what we talked about in the first half of the conversation was a lot about setting the right expectations around network marketing and dispelling some of the the unfortunate myths that I think are common nowadays. The second half of your book really too, and what we could do for the second half of this conversation is focus on a lot of the practical stuff. So you just mentioned the Tommy T. I loved that idea in the book. And in the book, you've got the graphics and everything. So let's talk about a couple of the other ones. I love the 200 marbles idea. Can you tell everybody what that's about?

Yeah. There's a guy named Ryan Chamberlain that I learned that from. And they say if you teach something once or twice, Um, that you can steal it as yours. Um, I don't know if that's true, but, but, uh, but, but, but I've, I've done that. Um, and, and, well, I, I kid around about this and I say I'm just a good thief of other people's information, you know, you know, that's all. I'm just a good thief of other people's information. And through that, on the 200 marbles, I believe if somebody— So, so here's what you do. You get You take 2 jars that aren't, you know, decent looking jars, you put 200 marbles in one, and it's just real simple. It's, you know, it's a mindset, it's a trick to trick your own mind, but it's also to watch your activity and to keep your activity level moving. Because if you don't— so if you take those 200 marbles and move them over with a full presentation to a person, meaning They've watched a video, they've got their questions answered, and you've done your follow-up, um, then, and you've moved them over. By the end of 200 marbles, I will almost guarantee you that somebody's making a livable income, uh, or on their— strongly on their way to. Um, you know, there is a number to everything, um, but there's a ratio really. And you can start to figure out your ratio too of, of yeses to nos and then find some tricks to to make that a few more yeses. But in, in that activity of the 200, you're going to get the skill set to be able to duplicate that. And that's what's important in network marketing. It's all about— can I— had a rule: if, if my daughter at 15, at the time when I made this rule up, if she can't duplicate what I'm doing in network marketing, then I probably shouldn't be doing it, because the whole premise is to work my way out of work. Not work my way into more work. So the 200 marbles is a really easy tool to help people to reach their goals and, and to chase after them with fervency.

I love it. One of the other really practical things that I liked in the book, and we already sort of touched on a little bit, is the idea of follow-up. So you say it's the key to success in virtually all of network marketing, but pretty much in any sales or communication-based industry. I have also really developed my follow-up skills over the last couple of years. I use Salesforce as a CRM. Are there any specific CRMs or relation management tools that, that you recommend?

Well, you know, each company is going to have their own normally in this day and age. So that's one, you know, that's one thing. Um, you know, the truth is, is I come from old school, and, and so my follow-up is, is, is that phone call, you know. I feel that as I learn more about, um, funnels and systems and whatnot, I am still in that, in that old school mindset. And as I learn more about that, that, that I'll become even better. So, so much more for me to learn in the follow-up, uh, system of with social media and technology. But for me, um, follow-up has been pick up the phone. But every company that, that I know of, you know, I, I actually have what you call the bump card, and it's a digital business card. And so I have all of my logistics and all of my hits and, and, and also follow-up videos and, and, um, and a funnel, funnel type of system involved with the bump card. And so, so that's one thing is a digital business card of your own. You can create anything that you want and You know, Richard Branson and all of the rest of them. You know, there's just great, great stuff out there.

I love it.

Yeah.

One of, one of the other things I wanted to discuss today too was objections and objection handling. I'll never forget when I was first going through those sales trainings back when I was running the house painting businesses, we spent a lot of time on objection handling and they taught us this, this, I guess, strategy that they called restate, isolate, and handle. And so you restate the objection, you isolate it to make sure that when you handle it, there are no other objections, and then you handle it. And we spent so much time drilling these objections. And then you get to the door. I did a lot of door-to-door sales for that business. And you could realize, like, if you're confident, if you know how to handle all of those, you can get to a yes or get to a no very, very efficiently. So what are some of the top objections in the network marketing industry? And how would you handle them?

Well, so very similar to the tool that you use is we— I use feel, felt, found. So, so where I'm coming down to their level, hey, I know how you feel, I felt the same way, but what I found is— so of course we have the Ponzi and the pyramid. Um, that is a very strong, you know, hey, I know how you feel, I felt the same way. But what I found is the truth is we're actually the opposite of a pyramid. And then I can give examples or, or have some fun with it and say, you know, I, I think there's pyramids in Egypt. I'm not sure. So using the Phil Felt Found tool, it really doesn't matter the objection. But that's one big one. Um, the other one is the no friends left, of course, that we've touched on, is people feel that they don't want to go to their friends and their family. Well, the truth is network marketing and success of network marketing today is online marketing. And so, so that one is dispelled pretty simply anymore because most companies that were going after distributors in the past are now going more after customers that become, uh, distributors if they're happy with the product. So the customer base is more widespread now because of online marketing. But I actually think instead of MLM or network marketing, that the terminology is getting more adaptive to, I'm an online marketer. You know, I market myself. And through that, I market the products that I love, kind of like an influencer. So, if you can find a way to influence online, you know, you're winning. So, that's a big one. And then, and then, you know, I think on the expectation level for people that, um, hear things like you only need 2 to be successful and all of those things, um, is, is, is beating the objections of things they've heard in the past. Um, you know, like I've tried so many things, or, you know, being one in the last 5 years it's been in cryptocurrency, we got our tails handed to us, you know. Um, over the last 5 years, especially in network marketing, because there was a lot of money being made, but there was a lot of— and it still is— the wild, wild west. So the silver nickels are getting shown out there all the time, people are getting hurt, and then you have to overcome those objections for them to get into real trading, um, of cryptocurrency, for them to, for them to even want to be in network marketing again. Because of some of the villains. Um, you know, anything that's good in, in, in this world usually has a phase of having to overcome those that exploit.

Hmm.

And those that exploit, I think, should have harsh penalties when caught and when done, for the simple reason that they're hurting individuals from ever grabbing success. from the thing that they exploited.

That makes total sense to me. Let's touch on one more thing before we close out. I know we're wrapping up on our time here. This is one of my favorite sections of the book, and this is also one of my favorite areas of personal development. So let's talk about affirmations. Why did you choose to include that in the book? And, and let's talk a little bit about what some of your most powerful affirmations are.

I think sometimes we get too complicated with affirmations, for one. So, I think simple, loving affirmations. Randy Ferguson had me telling myself how much I love myself in the mirror on a daily basis. And what a big difference that makes in your life. Just don't get caught doing it. No, no, no.

Just kidding. Kamal Ravikant, who wrote a book called Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends on It, he had me doing the same thing. So.

See? See? So, um, just love that and, and love that from all of the coaches in my past have done something similar. And by the way, having a coach, man, Michael Jordan had a coach. Come on, you know, everybody needs a coach, you know. And, and, and everybody thinks coaching is real expensive. Well, how about one coat one time, one time a month, $100, one time a month to just have somebody hear you out for an hour? You know, and find out if you're on track. Start where you fit in, you know, start where you fit in and then grow from there. I depend on my coaches still today, and I have multiple sources. And many of my coaching is out of books and out of their audios and whatnot. So I got off subject there. So affirmations, but that's where it all came from, right?

Mm-hmm.

Affirmations. But my truest story of my affirmation was when my daughter was first 18. She was working at Denny's and she invited people over to look at the company that I was involved with. The company that I was involved with was that long-term company. It's actually called Team National. Love it, great company, but they sell the largest savings membership in the nation for $2,195. Okay, so hard sell, I thought, to my daughter's age group. Okay, well, when I got there I'm going to talk about, you know, my God, my— when God came in, when Jesus came into my life, my life changed. But I felt like God stopped me in my tracks walking up to her apartment. She said she had 3 guests coming over, and I had already made plans for an hour later. So basically, I was making plans for that meeting to be a failure. I was stopped at the bottom of the stairs there. And at the bottom of the stairs, that's what I heard was, you're already painting failure on, on your daughter's meeting. And, and for— and what came into my mind was, everybody wants to be in business with you. Everybody wants to buy a big package. Everybody wants to be in business with you. Everybody wants to buy a big package. Well, still to this day, if I'm going to a meeting or especially a group meeting, And I'm saying that affirmation. It's not about— yes, it's about the words of that affirmation that everybody wants to be in business with me, calling it to me, speaking life into my business, and, and speaking a big sale into my business. You know, nothing wrong with that. But, but doing all of that, when I'm doing that, I am not thinking of what will go wrong. I am not thinking about what, what could happen. What coulda, shoulda, woulda, dida, dida, blida, dida, blida, blida, you know? None of that's happening because I'm speaking. So you'll see me driving down the road to that meeting going, everybody wants to be in business with me. Everybody wants to be on big package. You know, everybody wants to be in business with me. Everybody wants to buy a book. Everybody wants to be in business with me. Everybody wants to buy a book. And I am not thinking that nobody needs my book. I am not thinking that it won't be helpful, that I'm old school. I won't be thinking all of those negative things that I have thought in my downtime, you know, all of those. So that's what it's more about for a guy like me is protecting this bad neighborhood. And if I'm outside of that neighborhood with my affirmations, then I can't let that bad neighborhood work on me. And so also helping others. When you're stuck in helping others, you, you won't get stuck in hurting yourself.

An attitude of gratitude and positivity. I love it. So, well, Thomas, thank you for the awesome conversation today. Like I mentioned, you're our first guest who's talking about the benefits of network marketing and this great opportunity for people. So for those that want to learn a little bit more about you or your book or about this industry, where should they go? What should they do?

Well, there's a website, so Cutting Through the BS for the Love of Network Marketing. Um, there's also Facebook page, Cutting Through the BS for the Love of Network Marketing. Also, of course, Amazon, um, has it both audio and, and, and paperback. And it's, you know, for those that aren't the big readers, it's not big. It's easy read. And, um, and, and, and through there also, you know, uh, I'd be remiss to say, um, uh, Recovery Online, uh, Addiction Recovery Online Group. is where my passion lies, is helping people come from a place where I was, get out of the mistakes that I made, and find a way to entrepreneurialism and success. And if that network marketing is the answer there, try to help and serve for the rest of my days.

I'll make sure that we include some links in the show notes. Thank you so much.

Awesome.

Thank you.

God bless you. And Nicholas, it was a pleasure to be the first network marketing person on your podcast.

God bless. Thank you. That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives. And By reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.