76. Dan Bilzerian: Author of The Setup

Ah, Book Thinkers family, you are in for a treat today. Welcome to episode 76 of our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, I interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In this episode, I have a little bit of a different guest. I'm interviewing author Dan Bilzerian. As a gambling legend and Instagram king, Dan has a thing or two to say about getting what he wants in life. It's all about what he calls The Setup, which is also the title of his new book. It's a life philosophy that has helped him land fame and fortune. In today's conversation, we cover subjects like his anything but normal childhood, his time in the military, and the insanity that has followed him on his journey to becoming one of the most notorious people in the world and on social media. His book is an unapologetic memoir filled with wild stories, and Dan pulls back the curtain on what it's truly like to live the Bilzerian way with plenty of epic moments and no regrets. Although today's conversation is focused on personal development, this interview is a bit different than most of our others. It contains explicit content, and if you're not in the mood for that, you might not want to listen. As you're about to find out, like I said, Dan is unapologetically himself. So without further ado, please enjoy this amazing conversation with now author Dan Bilzerian. Dan Bilzerian, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. How are you doing today, man?

I'm good. I'm good.

I'm sure there aren't many people that really need an introduction, but I'm curious, how do you introduce yourself to people that aren't familiar with who you are and what you do?

I try not to like build myself up. I'm more of a lead with the worst type of guy. So I like to under-promise and over-deliver. But yeah, I don't really, I don't know, man. It's funny because like a lot of people said that I referred to myself as the king of Instagram or like all these stupid titles that I've gotten along the way. And none of that came from me. So. Yeah, not, not, I'm not the hype man.

Well, you're an author now, so let's talk a little bit about your writing process to sort of kick things off. When did you decide to start writing the book?

So originally I did this in 2016 and I actually came up with a book. Um, I was debating who I wanted to write it. I had Nils, who was the guy that I think ghostwrote I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell, or he was involved in that process in some way, shape, or form. I think part of the writing or editing or whatever. And I liked how those stories were told. I don't— have you read the book?

No, but I, I know about it.

It's kind of like a fratty, you know, I fucked the fat chick type of thing or whatever. And, you know, the funny story that goes behind it, you know, and his stories were, you know, they were, they were well told and they were interesting and they were funny to read, but the actual material of the story wasn't that interesting, right? It's like stuff that like could happen to anybody. And so mine was actually the opposite. And so that when they wrote it kind of in that more braggy tone, It just really did not resonate with me, and it just didn't come across well at all. It was because my stories were really over the top. The material in my stories were super crazy, and I wanted to tell them in understated tones. It was actually like the exact direct opposite of what they did there. And so yeah, after a long process, it just— I decided it didn't work for me, and I returned the money to Simon& Schuster and paid the ghostwriter myself and just kind of canned the project. And then Around the time COVID hit, I was, I was doing, um, or actually a little after COVID hit, I was training with Goggins and he, you know, all the gyms were closed and I offered him to use mine. And so we were training together and I read his book and it was the first book I'd read in a while. It was interesting to me because I had, you know, I'd done a lot of similar things militarily. What, you know, while I wasn't, you know, a SEAL and I didn't go off and do all that, the training element, which is really what he focused on in the book, I had done. I don't know, I would say probably as much. I mean, I did 510 days of training, so it was like we did a crazy amount and it was similar. And I noticed that he focused a lot on the book on that and he had, you know, his book did really well and I had kind of wanted to tell my story and it was just kind of like right place, right time. And so yeah, that was kind of the catalyst to starting the process.

I know that you talk about Goggins as an inspiration for the book and you've received a little bit of criticism from what I've seen on podcasts and stuff about having too much of the military stuff in there. But as somebody who's a fan of Can't Hurt Me and those sort of military-type memoirs, I really enjoyed it. And so we'll unpack some questions about your military experience in just a few minutes. Uh, 10 rewrites, is that true? You rewrote the book 10 times?

No, no, it was about 37. Well, 37 edits is what I did. 37. And I'm not talking about like small, I mean like line by line, the entire book, 37 full edits. So It was a long process and the book originally was 708 pages. So it, man, I put an insane amount of time into this. I'm not a writer and I'm not a fucking reader. So like for me to just, you know, haul out and do this and I had no ghostwriter, I had no, you know, help. I had one edit from Neil and other than that, I did the other 36 myself.

I actually enjoyed your writing style. I thought it was pretty visual. Like you talk in the beginning of the book, for example, about the paintball experience and as you're reading that, you can sort of put yourself in that car, feel the adrenaline hanging out the window shooting the other car. Like, that stuff's fun to read. So where did your writing experience come from? Was it just through like practice and— or did you get any coaching?

No, I didn't get any coaching. I just— I— so I wrote this thing, 708 pages, like a personal diary. I basically wrote it like I would have my diary and the diary that I wouldn't want anybody to find. I just wrote the whole fucking thing out there. Unfortunately, my mom ended up reading that first draft. Pretty embarrassing. But yeah, man, I just, I wanted to tell the full story and I didn't want it to be some brag session. I wanted it to be the good, the bad, and the ugly, the embarrassing stuff, the good stuff, the, you know, humanizing stuff, the whole thing. And so I, like I said, I wrote it as a diary and then from there I did some edits and then I handed it over to Neil who then chopped it into kind of like chapters and and he trimmed it down a lot. He actually trimmed it down to 350 pages and then took it back to like 450 pages. And it kind of like, it expanded and contracted until it ended around at, I think, just under 500 pages, which was the limit that I set for it. You know, 'cause I had to expand some stories. Like I told, I basically told like a lot of sequence of events things and put it all down and then, I realized that I had to kind of like dive deeper into some stories and give more detail, and I had to call people on the phone and get more, you know, info. And it was— I mean, it was a long process, just like the fact-checking and, and the getting the— all the information and going through my whole Instagram and going through, you know, a bunch of— I mean, dude, I, I went through probably 50 years of text messages, you know, because like, you know, 5 years with this guy, 8 years, you know what I mean? So it's like, it was just an insane amount to get numbers, you know, from like all the times that I beat Alec, because I'd given Robel 5%, um, of my action every time I played. So I had to go back like, I don't know, 8 years, 9 years in text messages with him to record every, you know, to verify every one of those wins was exactly the number that I thought that it was. Um, because after each session I texted him how much I'd won or lost. And so there was just a lot of that, man. And then a lot of like getting the chronological order correct. And then I mean, getting the dates where my dad went to jail and, you know, just all that stuff. It was, yeah, it was, it was an arduous, you know, long, long process. And I'm glad that it's behind me.

Well, you ended up with a pretty high quality book in terms of like the physical book. I mean, for those that knew you, they'll be excited to hear that there are images in the book and there's a lot of pictures of you when you're younger and these different experiences. So came out really well. Now my next question is about the foreword that Goggins wrote. He talked about the power of insecurities. And he says that he was kind of like this soft kid. Now he's the hardest guy on planet Earth. And you were insecure about women. Now, as Goggins says, you're the modern-day Hugh Hefner on steroids. So have you always been carrying around that chip of like the insecurity on your shoulder, or was it something that sort of resurfaced in hindsight as you were writing the book?

You know, I think insecurity is one of the biggest drivers. You know, I think that can probably motivate you as much or more than anything else. And I saw that like going through BUD/S, you know, a lot of those guys, you know, they end up as, you know, these alpha male badass guys or whatever, but the driving force making them go in there is they want to prove themselves. They want to prove other people wrong. And so, yeah, I mean, I think like some deep-seated insecurity will lead people to overcoming far beyond what, you know, they would think possible. Like, you know, maybe a UFC fighter was a guy that was like scared to fight and he just forced himself to do it and he just did it and did it and did it and did it until now he's like can kick anybody's ass. Well, is he the toughest guy? You know, now he is, you know, but why? It's because he had to, you know, overcome that fear. And so I think a lot of times, you know, overcoming things that you perceive as you know, some kind of perceived lack, right? Like I had a perceived lack of female attention. Goggins had a perceived lack of toughness or, well, you know, whatever it is, right? So I think those things, when you have those subconsciously kind of like digging in your side, it forces you to go probably further above and beyond what a normal person would go because a normal person is just like, okay, you know, I've gotten into a few fights. I feel like I can handle myself, whatever. But that guy that like was scared of fighting that wanted to overcome that, Maybe he's been in 500 fights now, you know what I mean? And he could kick that other guy's ass that was never really like scared of fighting, didn't really care that much but didn't emphasize it, you know? So, you know, it's, um, it's interesting, you know? And I talk about that sometimes as far as like, you don't really know like what a good or bad thing is until later on in your life because sometimes something that is bad will then motivate you to be better. Like maybe you get your ass kicked when you were 15 in front of your, you know, high school sweetheart and and embarrass the shit out of you, but then maybe that made you a badass later, you know? And because of that, you know, you fucking beat the shit out of some guy that was gonna, you know, rob and rape your wife or, you know, whatever, man! You just never know! And so, I think, yeah! You have to like look at what the cause and effect are. I think I got asked in an interview like, what would I change if I were to go back in time? And I was like thinking about it and Bill actually had a good answer. His was, you know, that he would— What would he change? Change if he had like hurt, you know, people or whatever. And I thought that was good. I, at the time, I, I, it was like, I wouldn't change anything because if I changed any little thing, like the butterfly effect, it would change where I'm at. And I'm pretty happy with where I'm at. So I've learned a lot and I've had a lot of experience. So, you know, it's, uh, it's interesting, you know, looking back is the only time you can really tell if like something was good or bad. And so, you know, with the insecurity at the time, you know, you think that's not a good thing, but then that motivates you to, you know, achieve way more than you ever thought possible.

So, well, already in our conversation, I think there's a lot of value for people who put you on a pedestal and they think of you as the king of Instagram. Because when you write a book like this and you're super open and vulnerable like you are, you sort of take off the Superman cape and now you're more relatable to anybody that's listening. And they go, you know what, instead of unfollowing Dan on Instagram because I'm jealous, I can use that as motivation. Dan used to be super insecure.

Yeah.

about women and affection. And now look, look at what he was able to accomplish by designing a life that was fulfilling him at the time. So I think it's motivational to look at the insecurities in hindsight. I think that's really cool.

Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, and I said that, um, in the beginning of the book, in the prologue or whatever, that yeah, you know, all these people, you know, every time they come up to me, they're like, oh, you're my fucking hero and this and that. And so I kind of like, I wanted them to know like who I was, you know what I mean? Because like There's where you end up and then there's how you get there and where you started. And I think where I started is very similar to a lot of, you know, where a lot of people are, right? Like, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't The Rock. I wasn't fucking 6'5, fucking 280 pounds in high school, you know what I'm saying? Like, so I think some guys, you know, start off, you know, way ahead of the herd and then other people, you know, start off probably behind. And so I think it's probably more interesting somebody that's, you know, starting from behind, even though You know, my parents had money and whatever, it was still like, you know, who wants their fucking dad to be in jail and bouncing around 7 schools in 5 years, you know, all that shit, and not really like getting any, you know, parenting and all that stuff. So I, I think, um, I think a lot of people think that I probably started off differently than I did. And so I wanted to, you know, I don't know, man, my whole thing was just to tell the story, and the story is not as glamorous as what people might think in the beginning anyways.

So now for sure. And I resonate with it. I mean, I had a lot of social anxiety and some of the same anxieties that you did when I was younger, insecurities. I'm still in the very early stages of sort of my upward trajectory, but here I am chatting with you on a podcast that's going to get seen a ton of times. This would have scared me a few years ago. So it's really cool to see how people can grow and they can leverage that insecurity. Now I want to talk about the duality of Dan. Because half the people that I told I was interviewing you were like, oh, Dan Bilzerian, I hate that guy. Or the other response, and probably more people were like, yo, that guy's my idol. That's so cool. I can't believe you're talking to him. Let me know when that goes live, blah, blah, blah. Let me know how he is. So let me put it this way. In reading the book and all of these vignettes of the different people who are in your circle, you have sort of this normal lifestyle. with a lot of people that care about you. You love traveling internationally, exploring different cultures. You love playing poker and all this other stuff. And then there's the girl stuff. I think that gets put sort of in a different category. Do you integrate both of those into your life? Like, is that part of your normal day-to-day, or do you try to keep them separate? Maybe that's a better question.

You mean the girl stuff and the traveling and all that?

Yeah, the normal day-to-day Dan stuff, and then what we see on Instagram. Is that all integrated into one life, or do you sort of segregate them a little bit?

It really depends on when, you know, my life like ebbs and flows and it's kind of like a roller coaster. So sometimes, like when this first started getting crazy back in like 2013, '14, I was making a shitload of money in poker and I had all these girls around. I was— I had a poker game, so I had all the poker chicks and I had just moved to LA at Richard Gere's house and I'm just like, you know, throwing pool parties with all these girls. And so It was fucking nuts, you know. And then I, and then I made, you know, crazy, crazy amounts of money playing poker, and then it got even nuttier. And then we added the Instagram thing, and then we add the fame. And so it was like this snowball that just kept getting bigger and crazier. Um, and, you know, while it was, there was still like the normal day-to-day where I'd go to the gym and work out and, and whatever. But, and to me, my life seemed normal. Like, I think everybody kind of like within a maximum of 6 months can get used to any lifestyle, whether you're in Auschwitz or whether you're a billionaire, like whatever you're— wherever you are on that spectrum, like you will get used to that and that will be your perceived normal.

Hmm.

And so, I think for me, I mean, you know, waking up and having chefs make me food and having girls that I could sleep with whenever I wanted, it was just like that became normal. And then, I started upping the bar and upping the bar and upping the bar because The climb of the mountain is much more satisfying than sitting at the top. So, I just kept on wanting to go higher and take it to a further extreme. And then, if you flash forward with the Ignite stuff, I took it beyond where I ever thought was possible. And I realized that more was not always better and that I had just really maxed this out. And up until that point, the pleasure spikes had increased as I had upped the bar and whatever, but I had gotten to a point where the pleasure spikes were not increasing. It was actually causing me, you know, headache and this and that. And then in between there, there's the girlfriend periods, right? I mean, I had monogamous girlfriends a couple times. I'd take a year off here, a year off there, and I had to do it because it was just too crazy to just continue this fucking mayhem without some sort of a break. And so I would do that. I would take a break and then I would come back and I would go harder. So, you know, during my break period when I'm dating a girl monogamously or, you know, semi-monogamously, whatever, you know, my life was much more normal. I was hanging out more with my guy friends. I'd do more surfing. I'd do more man shit. And then when we're going hard with the partying, I mean, there's fucking naked girls showing up in my bed. I'm having fucking six-oms and it's nuts. I mean, I'm getting high all the time. I mean, like, my life there versus what it was like in a relationship was polar opposite as well. So I think it really depends on when you catch me. But the Instagram stuff was mostly a highlight reel. Granted, I didn't catch 95% of it because I just wanted to kind of like live, and then if we caught a moment, then cool. We missed, I would say, you know, 90% more than we captured. Um, but what we did capture, for the most part, it was, you know, all kind of like, you know, moments in time, which I thought was pretty cool. And that's what I wanted. I wanted, um, you know, just to capture moments. And, and I was so like picky with what I would post that we had a lot of like cool stuff that I didn't post because, oh, this girl didn't look hot enough. I was just, I got so like crazy and picky about what I would put up that I had way, way more content than we ever, you know, posted. But for me, I, I wanted it to be more about enjoying what I was doing than like focusing on like showing everybody how much fun I was having. I wanted to focus on having the fun. And I think I blurred the lines a little bit when the Ignite stuff started happening because then it was like, okay, we got a business and now it's— it was, it was more about like showing people that I was having fun than having fun towards the end. And I think that messed it up a little bit as well. Yeah, I guess it's like a long-winded answer to your question. So sometimes it was, it was normal, sometimes it was way crazier than what people would see because, you know, if there's a bunch of naked girls running around the house, if there's an orgy, can't post a picture of that. And you wouldn't— and I didn't want my fucking cameraman in there, you know what I mean? Like, there was so many times when, like, that's why I never did a reality show or any of that stuff, is because having that camera and having that invasion of privacy would have ruined a lot of those, like, naturally fun, organic, you know, moments. So for the most part, it was, it was probably more calm than what you saw, but then other times it was way more crazy than what you saw. So I think just depending on the time.

I listened to your— or watched your Impaulsive podcast with Logan and his team, and George had asked you a couple questions about awareness and like social media, kind of living today versus creating something for the future. Like you just talked about with Ignite, like it turns into a real business. So now you're trying to create this persona a little bit more than live it organically. So is there anything that you do on a regular basis to bring yourself back to the present moment? to live in the short term versus the long term? Is there anything that you do?

I mean, you know, shit, last like 2 years or so I barely posted anything. You know, I've been living a lot more in the moment, doing stuff. I was in Thailand for a month doing a lot of freediving and working out, and that was really nice. I, you know, for me, I got a lot better. I was able to go down 90 feet on a breath hold, and I was able to go down for 2 minutes, and I got my heart rate down to 37 beats a minute, and My body was adapting to the freediving and I thought that was super cool and afterwards, I had this like indescribable calm and happiness from the freediving that I thought was pretty cool and I was doing the MMA stuff and I was lifting weights. I was in good shape. I was getting sun every day. I never wore shoes. I mean, it was just like a fucking cool experience and yeah, I enjoyed that or like surf trips to Hawaii or whatever, just much, much more than just being surrounded by girls all the time, getting high and having sex. I mean, it's fun, you know? It's like those pleasure spikes are cool and it's, it's more pleasure stuff than happiness. And I, I would say I was definitely happier in relationships doing more stuff with my guy friends and having fun than I was like just the circus, you know?

It's gonna be, that's gonna be interesting for a lot of people to hear. They would probably assume the opposite.

Well, I mean, listen, in the beginning it was cool, you know, living out those like childhood fantasies and, and doing all that stuff was badass. And I'm not gonna say that it wasn't fun and I didn't have fun racing cars and, and, and banging hot chicks and doing all the bucket list stuff. I mean, it was amazing and I'm glad that I did it because I think if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't understand that I actually enjoy the other stuff more in the long run because if somebody would have told me, you know, fucking a bunch of 10s and, you know, and getting high and doing all this stuff, you know, wouldn't be better than like surfing with some dudes, I'd have been like, yeah, bull fucking shit! You go surf with the dudes, I'll go fuck the models! Um, you know, but I think after I've done that stuff, I can look back and be like, you know, I'm glad I did it. It was fun. It was like I checked that box. But I've just— I've done it so much that it's kind of like, I don't know, man. Like, I like Snickers bars, but if I ate them every fucking day, I'd probably get sick of Snickers bars. I mean, I'm not sick of hot chicks, but I'm like sick of like being consumed by that, you know? And so having sex here and there is cool, but like your entire life revolving around it it just gets old after a while. You know, in the beginning it's fun. I mean, it's fun for a while, but, you know, it's like I just needed more of a broader focus.

Yeah, no, I hear you, man. And one of the lessons that I dug out at the beginning of the book was a quote that you had. It says, most people are too afraid of judgment to own who they are and accept the controversy. So I think that's one thing that we can all take from you is that you're in the controversy. But you're not afraid of just kind of showing the world who you are. So why do you think most people are scared of that? I mean, why do most people hide behind a shell of what they think the world should look like versus what they actually like?

I mean, I took a totally opposite approach. I led with my worst qualities and I just owned them. And so almost 99% of the time when people meet me, they're like, oh man, like, he's a lot nicer, he's a lot cooler than I expected him to be, or, you know, he's not an asshole, or all this stuff. And so they're pleasantly surprised. And it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about, you know, underpromising and overdelivering. And I think, you know, you'll meet these politicians and they'll pretend to be these fucking squeaky clean guys, and then you'll find out that, you know, they're banging hookers on the side and they're doing this and they're doing all this like fucked up shit. And then you're just like, wait, but— You know, any little one of those things is like a big chink in their armor because they're leading with this like holier-than-thou persona, which nobody fucking is, man. Like, people are human beings. Like, Everybody has dirt. Everybody does fucked up shit. I just own mine. Like, I'm probably no more fucked up than anybody else, but I'm just open about what I do, and other people hide it and pretend to be these good people. And it's like, I've seen them, dude. Like, I've done fucking drugs with like congressmen. Like, I've seen these motherfuckers do all sorts of fucked up shit. They fuck hookers. They do all sorts of fucked up stuff. Like, all these people, all these people do, like, across the board. Like, nobody is really like you know, abstains completely from sin, you know, like they just don't. They pretend it, they hide it, whatever. But like everybody has their things. It's like the girl that was, you know, like super good and sheltered in high school. A lot of times she's the whore in college. And a lot of times the girl that was a whore in high school, you know, she's kind of like over it in college. Like everybody kind of like has their phase. They get it out of their system. And if they don't, then it's kind of like this repressed thing that they're probably more likely to cheat later on. Or, you know, they have doubts or they're wondering, or their whole life they like wondered, oh, you know, what would that have been like? you know, the things that I regret are the things that I didn't try, not things that I failed at. And so, you know, I tried a lot of shit and I, you know, I was open about it and I just didn't really hide from it. So I would say, I don't know, I think I'm probably like morally a better person than like 90-something percent of people. Most people would probably be like shocked to hear that. But, you know, I give a lot of, you know, I give a lot of money to people. I help people out. You know, I don't post about it. I don't do it to like show people, oh, I'm this fucking good person, because that's not me. Like, I'm not trying to like convince people I'm a good person. I do things because I want to be a good person. Like, this whole fucking last 2 years, everybody's so goddamn consumed with showing the fucking world that they're a good person instead of actually being a good person. It's like we're in the fucking age of virtue signaling where it's like, oh, like, look at how good I am, or I'm, you know, I, I love Black people, I do this, I'm not racist, I, you know, I help this cause, I fucking, you know, whatever, you know. It's just like It's just bullshit, man. Like, it's just— it's everybody. Like I said, they, they, they only care when it's fashionable to care. Like, they wouldn't have cared about George Floyd if everybody else didn't care, because there's fucking— you know, there was like 300 Black guys that died in a weekend in Chicago. Nobody gave a fuck because it wasn't on the news. But, you know, the moment everybody starts caring about something, then it's like, oh well, I care about this, and can you believe that? And it's like, dude, 150,000 people die every day and nobody gives a fuck. You know, so it's like you either care about like random strangers dying or you don't. And it's like, if you care— like, I don't know, man, it just— to me, this last 2 years has just like shown me like how much everybody is a big fucking sheep and they just can't think for themselves. And to me, it's like I've got a moral code. Like, I try and do the right thing. I care about people like regardless of their skin— like, skin color is not even like a thought on my mind. It's not even like a consideration. And now it seems like a pre-qualifier to every fucking story that comes out. It's like, you know, white guy does this to black guy, black guy— you know, it's just like, why the fuck is race even like involved in this? It just seems to be like a constant talking point. It's pretty annoying, to be honest. Um, but I think there's just a lot of this stuff that, like I said, people are more concerned with looking like good people than actually being like good people. And for For me, like, you know, I just, I don't know. Like, I mean, especially, you know, in the last, I don't know, 6, 7 years, I've just been like trying to do the right thing, you know, and not to show people that I'm doing the right thing just because, you know, I think that's like the right thing to do. And I think that also goes to honesty too. And I was talking to my buddy about this the other day, is that most people are not going to be honest all the time unless they're like a gambler or they're in business or they have their own personal moral code where their word is so fucking important to them, they're just not going to break it. If they're not in that category, most people will just lie when it's convenient because it's, uh, it's a lot more difficult to tell the truth all the time.

It is. Have you heard of The 48 Laws of Power? It's a book by Robert Greene.

I've heard about it. I haven't read it. I don't know anything about it.

It's like the number one most banned book in the U.S. prison system because people get their hands on it and then they take over jails and stuff. But, uh, he wrote that book. I had him on the podcast. He wrote that book because he hated the hypocrisy in Hollywood. He said everybody pretended to be for these great liberal ideas. And behind the scenes, it's all a power game. It's all money-hungry people, 100%. All right. So I want to bring it back to the book because I know that's what we're here to talk about. In the beginning of the book, you talk about your younger life. You talk about your dad going to prison, getting made fun of. What age was that when your dad went to prison?

I think it was, I want to say, 7th grade. I think, I think I was like 11, I want to say. I'd have to check the dates, but I think it was around about that time because I got, I got kicked out of school twice in 7th grade. And then 8th grade, I went to military boarding school. So I think it was like around about that time.

I had an interesting debate with one of my friends the other day about you, because I shared that you had this 36,000-square-foot house that you grew up in for a portion of your childhood. And, uh, somebody said, man, I wish I had that. And I said, yeah, but what if your dad wasn't around that much? And what if you were getting into trouble and you were insecure and you had all this other stuff that Dan had going on? Like, would you rather your childhood where your parents were around all the time paying attention to you, not too hands-on, but like around and they loved you? Um, or would you rather what Dan had, which wasn't so glamorous behind the scenes? And it kind of puts things into perspective about you. You know, people toss around like trust fund and all this stuff all the time. It's like, it wasn't so colorful. It wasn't so pretty in the background once you actually read his story.

Well, and another thing is like, I would argue that having loving parents in a 36,000 square foot house versus having loving parents in an 8,000 square foot house, you'd be much better off to be in the 8,000 square foot house with, you know, a Jeep and whatever than the Ferrari in the big house. It, Because what people don't understand is when you set that bar up there, and this is what I talked about earlier, like you get used to everything within 6 months max. And so, you know, like they talk about people that won the lottery and somebody that got their arm fucking ripped off a year later, like their equal— their happiness is equal, if not, you know, better for the person that got their arm amputated because they went to the bottom and they only could go up. And the person that won the lottery literally went to the top and could only go down. So it's kind of like perceived expectation of like what their life is, what, what normal is. Right. And so if you set that bar of like what normal is, is at the top, Then, you know, I've said this in many interviews that like only the best things satisfy you and nothing really like makes you that happy because you're used to all the nicest shit. So I think that kids that grow up with everything are actually at a severe disadvantage. And people, they just don't understand it because they live through their lens and like to them, they're like, oh my God, well, that would be amazing. It's like, yeah, that would be amazing for like 6 months or 8 months or whatever. And then you'd be fucking used to it just like you'd be used to anything else. The difference is when you leave that 36,000 square foot house to go live in the fucking, you know, barracks in the military with 80 people on the size of your fucking basketball court, it's exponentially more shitty than if you fucking came from the streets and now you actually have a roof over your head. So everything's perspective. And if you fuck up your perspective early, then it's like you pay for that later. And you pay for that later because now you're like comparing it to like how, you know, your house was or all this stuff. And so by like having the best stuff early, you're not doing yourself any favors. Yeah, I think I had a really shitty childhood. It's funny because a lot of people are like, oh, you know, I wish I could go back and be a kid. I was like, I would never want to be a fucking kid. I'd probably be in jail, honestly. Like, if I had my mentality as a kid, like, everybody's telling you what to do, you fucking have no freedom. It's like, that would literally be like probably worse than being in jail now. And so I would never want to go back to being a kid. I didn't really do anything with my parents. My, you know, it's like I, I don't know. I, I did not enjoy it at all. That shaped a lot of, you know, what I did later too, you know. So I, you know, I can't look back and be like, oh, it was the worst thing that happened, because, you know, look where I'm now, you know.

Yeah. And, and you talked about your dad sort of paying you for everything, right? Like, you get up on the water skis, he pays you. You wouldn't get out of bed at some point unless there was money involved with it. So I think that's very damaging for a young mind. And there's probably an interesting thing that happens, which is that a small percentage of people, you're the example, take that bar and they exceed it because, okay, only money motivates me. I'm going to go make a ton of money in college playing poker. And then most people say, wow, the bar is so high and they can't live up to the expectation. They don't have the tools to make the money or whatever the case is when they're on their own and they crash and they burn. So yeah, you're right. I think growing up rich is probably a disadvantage, especially if you're incentivized by money. But—

Show me 100 trust fund kids and I'll show you fucking at least 90 of them that are fucking addicted to drugs, that are miserable, that haven't fucking done jack shit on their own. You know what I mean? I started with a big handicap and, you know, not because of the trust fund, but just because of the, you know, the lifestyle that I grew up in and, you know, and how I was raised and, you know, you know, relatability, you know, and like, Like, you know, if I was to work at a fucking, you know, shitty job, then going in the military, that would have been easier because I'd be used to like, you know, doing something I didn't want to do. But when you just get to do whatever the fuck you want to do all the time, it's kind of like then those other things become, you know, relatively shittier because of that. So I think I had probably every disadvantage growing up because I didn't have like money. Like when I was in the military, like I was living on like the $800, $900 a month I was getting. Like I didn't get any support. It's not like I had a bunch of money in the bank that I could use later. So it's like I got used to nice shit and then I had no fucking money or nice shit. And it's like, that's way worse. Like show me a fucking rich guy that became poor and I'll show you a miserable motherfucker. Show me a poor guy that's been poor his whole life and like, I know tons of them that are happy, right? Like, and they're both poor. Like let's say you've been rich from 26 to 36 and now you're fucking poor, at 36, you're a miserable poor motherfucker. If you've been poor your whole life and now you're 36 and you're poor, you don't know anything different. Like usually those guys are pretty fucking happy. So it's kind of like, you know, same place, same fucking socioeconomic status. It's just like the one guy's perspective is, you know, he used to have a fucking ton of money and now he's miserable because he has a perceived lack.

Yeah.

And so yeah, I think starting off early with anything is a disadvantage unless you keep it like You know, if your parents keep giving you a bunch of fucking money and you've got money the whole time, then like, okay, you know, then you have a little bit more freedom and you've got some power and stuff like that. But I had the worst of it. I had, you know, shit when I was younger and then I didn't get it later. So, you know, a lot of people say, oh, well, you got a trust fund. It's like, I have the documents, I've got the wires. Like, I didn't cash it in until I was 39 fucking years old. So, and I didn't even get it till I was 35. So, I mean, that was not really, you know, when you're fucking 22 years old, you're not like, oh, well, I just gotta make it to 35 and then I'll get a couple million bucks or, you know, whatever.

It's like, that's not a—

It's not a thought, you know. Maybe if it was, you know, $100 million that I'd get when I was 25 and I was 21, I'd be like, okay, we can coast for 4 years and, you know, we'll figure it out when we get there, you know. But 35 is a long fucking ways away.

Do you ever think about doing something to consciously reset that baseline for yourself? Because I know that you talk about pleasure and happiness a lot. You talk about in the book. Are you gonna go work at CVS or something sometime soon?

Yeah, I mean, I talked about doing that, like working at Walmart, and I think that would be a good reset if I did that for like 3 months or whatever. I mean, 6 months would be the ultimate reset. The beauty of that would be that, yeah, then everything after that, after you're used to that, you know, and I think you would be after doing it for 6 months, you know, a bigger apartment, a nicer car, like all those things would then become pleasure spikes, and then you'd be like climbing that ladder again. So I think there would be, uh, I think there would be a lot of value in that, even if I just did it for a month, just, just for a perspective reset, you know. I think that would be good.

That Walmart's revenue would go up like 25% for that quarter. Well, walk in the door and Dan Bilzerian hands you a smiley sticker.

Yeah, maybe shave the beard. I mean, I certainly wouldn't be posting about it. That would be pretty brutal if I had a bunch of motherfuckers coming in there. But yeah, I, you know, it wouldn't have to be Walmart. It could be whatever. It could be just— I mean, it could be a fucking job on a ranch somewhere. I mean, just whatever it is, as long as you're like living within normal means, living on a normal salary, driving a normal car, sleeping in a normal place, like, you know, it could be— it could be whatever. I mean, you could go live in a fucking tent for 3 months, whatever. I mean, as long as when you left that, you know, you had like a slow comeback, you know, what your normal reality is, I think you'd have a— another climb of the mountain.

So yeah, you'd look at your cars and your house and you'd go, wow, probably for the first time. There's this group of Stoic philosophers called the Cynics, and they were like the royal elite in Rome and stuff, and they would get into like peasants' clothing and roam the streets to sort of do that reset. So I think about that sometimes. I mean, it's important. Goggins— Goggins made Jesse Itzler do it. I don't know if you've heard that story, but he made him sleep in a chair and all that kind of stuff. Pretty funny!

Yeah, I mean, it, you know, just a small version of that is an ice bath. You know, you do an ice bath and like take out the dopamine hit and take out like all the positive benefits that you get from it. It's just like you're fucking miserable in that fucking ice bath for a couple minutes, and when you get out, you're like, you're happy to be warm. It's like most people don't think about being happy to be warm until they're pretty fucking cold, you know what I mean? It's just like you don't think that you're lucky to not have broken arms until you get your fucking arm broken, you know? Like so many things in life, you don't realize like all the things that you have to be grateful for Until you fucking lose them. Like, you know, if you go to jail, then all of a sudden, you know, all these little personal freedoms that you had, now you, you know, fucking miss them. Or, you know, when you get them back, you're happy about it. And so I think if you have— you know, I think a lot of people are like crippled by comfort.

Oh, for sure!

And I think without some suffering, you know, you really just get numb to all the things that you have to be grateful for. And so I think like, that's one of the good things about doing like charity work and stuff like that is that you get to see like how other people are living. And you get to see like how, like, you know, small amounts of money— like, you know, I give a bum $1,000, you know, and he'd be fucking ecstatic, like literally crying, you know. And it's just like, you know, the money that, you know, doesn't mean anything to you is like something that's like fucking a big deal, you know. And you see that in them, you know. And I think people are connected too. And so when you see that like strong emotion, you know, from something, like I said, that you don't really care about, you know, and something that like makes a change in this guy— I don't know, it's just like— That is eye-opening, you know, for sure.

And it's cool for you to think about the fact that you have the power to do that for so many people. And I know you talk in the book about being charitable, and I want to ask about the next steps in a couple minutes before we wrap up. I can't believe we've already been talking for 45 minutes because I got a million more questions. But let's transfer over to the military stuff a little bit deeper. So you get arrested your first day as a senior in high school, you get kicked out of the state. Which I didn't know that that could happen. You decided to go to the military instead of community college or something. So why'd you decide to go to the military? What was it like? What's the captain's mast and stuff like that when you went to Navy SEAL training? Like, I want to hear all about that experience.

It was a fucking shock to the system, man. Like, you know, the reason I did it, to answer that question, was because that's what my dad did. He enlisted in the military during Vietnam when everybody else is getting drafted and He became like the youngest officer commissioned since the Korean War and he, you know, got assigned to a Special Forces Green Beret battalion and like, you know, got a— I think a Silver Star and a Bronze Star and all this shit and came back and then as a high school dropout, he got into Stanford and then went to Harvard Business School and so that kind of like paved the road to his success and it was an integral piece and I think a lot of colleges are looking for diversity and stuff like that and so when you have that on your resume, I mean, for me it helped. It got me into UF. And so I just, I saw what it did for him and I also like, to me it was appealing in the sense that like, it was adventure and I, and I like guns and I just thought it was interesting and I'd seen the movie Navy SEALs. So I was just like, oh, you know, we get to fucking drink beers and play golf and fucking, you know, we're badasses and whatever and kill terrorists at night. I don't know, just obviously like overglamorized, but it seemed like a lot more appealing option than, than going to community college. So yeah, that's, um, that's, that's the direction I went. And then it was rough, man. Like I said, I'm living in a barracks with 80 people the size of my indoor basketball court, and I'm like, you know, scrubbing toilets and doing all this shit. And it was just like so many things that I didn't realize. The food sucked, the fucking uniforms were uncomfortable, and we'd do a workout in like what was like an office uniform and then not shower. And so we're like, you know, and to me, I shower like 5, 6 times a day. So like little shit like that was annoying. Like I had to sit in my fucking Sweat all day. You didn't get more than 6 hours of sleep. You're having to do watches at night. You're having to clean— I mean, it was just like every little piece of it, the whole thing sucked and it sucked for different reasons than I expected. And then, you know, the captain's mast thing, I had to basically go up to the highest ranking officer on the whole base and kind of plead my case as to why I wanted to continue into BUD/S and man, I was just like so fucking nervous. I was like shaking and, you know, it's like they just instill in you that, you know, like— I was a fucking E-1 when I went in and an E-2 when I went to Captain's Mask and so you're like the lowest possible rank and, you know, officers, you salute them and there's this whole fucking thing and now this is like the highest ranking officer and he's a Navy SEAL. It was like, you know, you're just so intimidated because for like 9 weeks, they just beat into you like, you know, you have to fucking, you know, stand at attention, you have to salute, you have to do all this stuff and like, you know, and these are like enlisted guys, you know, let alone when the officers come, it's like this whole thing. So they like really kind of like break you down. And, um, and then, yeah, like I said, I'm, you know, 18-year-old fucking kid. I hadn't, you know, done anything. And so standing in front of this, you know, Navy SEAL commander of the base officer, it was— yeah, it was like a fucking nerve-wracking experience for sure.

I was surprised to read that you thought you were in the bottom 10% of your class in terms of athleticism, you know. And I shared with you before we started too that I really love books like Can't Hurt Me and all of these military memoirs, sometimes I think, could I get through SEAL training? Because I'm a, I'm a fit guy and I, I'm mentally tough, but man, you got to be crazy to do what you guys did. Have you done anything as hard as, as that since then, physically?

No, I mean, Hell Week is about as fucking difficult as it, as it gets, you know? I mean, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, first of all, you don't realize like how much you actually can do. Like, you, like, you're literally capable of like 10x what you think that you're capable of. From the time that you think that you can't go anymore, you can do fucking 10 times more. And you can just stay up and not have sleep and get hypothermia and just keep fucking running. And I'm not talking about like bench press. Like, if you can bench 350, you're not going to be able to bench 400 because you think you can, you know, or you're not gonna be able to bench 3,000, you know. You can't do 10x of that. I'm talking about like endurance stuff. Like when you go out and you run a fucking mile and you feel like you're fucking exhausted and your heart's gonna explode. You could go out and run fucking 10 more miles, you know what I mean? You could maybe run more than that. Like, if you had a fucking gun to your head, like, your capability of like continuing to go with cardiovascular stuff or like, you know, the, um, the slow twitch muscle fiber endurance stuff, it's just like you don't have any fucking idea. Like, if you were to tell somebody that, you know, a fucking normal human could go out and run, you know, 250 or 300 fucking miles, like, most people would be like, there's no fucking way. And then you got a guy like Goggins that just goes out and fucking rips it at like 220 pounds, looks like a fucking bodybuilder, you know, and just like does it. So it's like, I don't know, you're like, here's the thing, it's not that I was crazy. It's not like guys that are going through Navy SEAL training are crazy.

It—

and the guys that make it aren't these fucking super badasses or whatever. They just want it. They want it really fucking bad, and they want it more than the other guys that fucking make that, you know, or don't make it. And so, you know, yeah, you have to be fucking tough. Like, of course, you know, you have to like push through fucking barriers and you have to keep fucking going when you don't want to fucking go. And like, the thought of getting a warm cup of coffee when you're fucking hypothermic and you're in the fucking cold-ass ocean and you know you got to keep doing this for 6 more fucking months and all that shit's running through your fucking mind and you know it's not just being cold, you got to go now fucking run after this with telephone poles and it's not going to end and your fucking shins hurt and your fucking nipples are bleeding and You know, it's like you just— yeah, you're like, but it all comes back to how bad you fucking want it. Like, you know, if there's a fucking gun to your mother's head, you know, and like, and you get fucking $10 billion if you fucking complete this, and if you don't, your whole fucking family gets raped and fucking murdered, like, you're gonna do anything. Like, whatever the fuck your body is capable of doing, like, you're just gonna do it, you know? And so like— For me, there was not an alternative. So like, a lot of people look at what I did and they're like, oh man, this fucking Dan's like the hardest motherfucker for being able to go through this shit. And it's just like, well, I didn't really have like a choice, you know? There wasn't, you know, there wasn't like a viable option. It was like, okay, like you quit and you go fucking sit on a fucking boat for the next 3 years, or you fucking suffer and go through this. And then, you know, you've got a path to, you know, what you want to do. And so I think had I have had a good alternative, it would have been much harder to go through. And I saw that. I think like the guy that owned the Von Dutch clothing line or something tried to go through Navy SEAL training. He like showed up with 2 hot chicks and a sports car and everybody's like, oh yeah, this guy's a badass and this and that. He quit like 2 days later or some shit, you know, like, but he had a lot to like go, go to, you know, like he had the, you know, it's like, okay, if I quit here, but I could drive fast cars and all this shit. Like, I didn't have that, you know. If I quit, I was going to be on a fucking ship with a bunch of Fat Navy idiots. So I don't know, quitting was just never an option for me.

There's a line that you talk about in the book when you finish Hell Week. You say, quote, I'd accomplished the unimaginable, but it felt like nobody cared, like winning the lottery only to find you're the last person on earth. So what was that like? I mean, that's what you pictured in your head was like all the glory of finishing Hell Week and then nobody cares.

Yeah, it was like nothing. I got, you know, there was no fucking cheerleaders and pom-poms, you know, it was just like You know, when you get— when you go through something so fucking difficult as that, you know, like literally the hardest thing you've ever done in your fucking life, and it's like, I don't know, everybody else around you is kind of like, yeah, you know, we did it. It was like, I don't know, like we weren't like patting each other on the back, we weren't fucking high-fiving. Like, we hadn't slept in 5 and a half days. Like, we're all just beat to fucking shit. Our bodies are broken. And, you know, and then we come back to training on fucking Monday and it's, you know, business as usual. I mean, like, you know, we had— we walked that week because we were all fucked up. But like, other than that, it was like, you know, you're back in training, nobody's fucking kissing your ass, nobody's like fucking high-fiving you, you don't get a fucking silver star on your report card. It's like, you know, I don't know, it was, uh, on to the next one. Yeah, on to the next. And I— my body was so fucked up and broken. Like, it was— that to me was like the finish line. It was like, I just wanted to get through Hell Week. I just wanted to prove to that doctor that I could do this with stress fractures, and I wanted to like, you know, just prove to everybody that I could do it. And then I got through it and I realized like, this wasn't— you know, for me, that was like the finish line, right? Like, put everything and you fucking get across the finish line only to like realize like, you know, we got 5 more months of this shit, you know? This is just the start, you know? And, uh, that was, that was tough, you know? My body, you know, at the time I was, I was natural and I was in bad shape and I had fucking stress fractures and this and that and I had tons of overuse injuries and, you know, I just, I wasn't getting stronger. I was just breaking and so 3 weeks after that, I just like, I couldn't even fucking do the runs. My shins were fucking killing me and then the next week, You know, when I went back the next time, I was fucking in great shape and I was doing fucking steroids. And so it was just like, I mean, it was a joke. Like, it was a joke how easy it was the second time versus like how fucking— like, the first time I don't think could have been any worse. I was in terrible shape. I had fucking stress fractures in both my legs. I had ITB, like fucking overuse injuries, extensor tendonitis. Like, I just Every single piece of the training was shitty. My class didn't like me, the instructors didn't like me, I had no friends. Like, it was just like across the board the worst case scenario. The second time I went through, like, I was in good shape, I was fucking like, you know, recovering. I mean, I'd go to the goddamn weight room after fucking training. Like, you know, people respected me. I had already finished Hell Week, so like, you know, the guys in the class like, you know, looked at me for like, you know, tell them shit. So it was like, it was a 180. And so I was just, I don't know, I got, I got cocky because the second time I went through, it was so fucking easy compared to what I did the first.

So Mexican veterinary steroids, for anybody that's listening and wants to learn more about that, Dan has some pretty funny stories, but I want to move things along. So, Dan, there's a great personal development lesson that you kind of have in the next section of the book about approaching anxiety, where you talk about volume. And so you're talking about girls, if you're at the bar, go up to as many as you can, when the goal is talking to as many as you can instead of like getting a girl, then you don't care as much about the rejection. You could do the reps. So I've found that, that type of approach, the volume type, works for all different types of risk. Where else have you applied that in your life? Just learn as fast as you can.

I mean, that's everything, you know. It was like, you know, talk about that with poker where it's like, you know, the whole key to success is just like cram as much experience into the shortest period of time as possible, right? So like For the approach anxiety, I think a lot of guys have that. And I think the more, the more you fail at something, the less you're gonna care if you fail, right? Like, if you've never gone up and talked to a girl and like your friends are watching and you really like her and the stakes are high and all this shit, then it's like, you know, you're gonna fucking psych yourself out, you know? It's like there's too much pressure on it. But if you've gone up to 100 girls prior to that and you failed with every fucking one of them, it's like you kind of have this attitude like, okay, like Does it really matter if it's 101 that I get, you know, rejected by? Like, you know, you don't— you just stop caring. And the moment you stop caring, the absolute moment you stop caring, is the moment you're going to have better success. And that's not just true of women, it's true of a lot of things. Like, people in this world just do not want to give you what you want or what you need. And when you don't need it, then everybody all of a sudden wants to give it to you. It's very counterintuitive and it's kind of fucked up, but it's just the way of the world, you know? Like, I mean, girls don't want to fuck a guy that really needs to get laid, that's like super fucking horny, that's just like, you know, like humping their leg. Like, they just don't want that. They want a guy that has options. They want a guy that's like— has a different approach because so many desperate guys have hit on them. And usually the desperate guys are the low-value guys because a lot of girls don't find them attractive. And a lot of girls don't find them attractive for a fucking reason, right? So like, and then the 5% of guys that fuck all the girls Usually most girls find them attractive because they've got things that like, you know, attract women, right? So if you can attract 10 women, you can usually attract 1,000 women. And, you know, and if you don't attract 10 women, you're probably not going to attract any women. And so it's one of those things where you either figure it out or you don't. And the best way to figure it out is by, you know, like I said, just volume, just going up and just doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it and fucking— It's that, you know, you don't have a report card. This isn't like, you know, stats. You're not getting drafted onto a fucking, you know, NBA team. Like, nobody cares. What your batting average is. Who gives a shit? And once you get in that mentality of like, you just don't give a shit because it really at the end of the day doesn't fucking matter, you know, then, then you just do better. But, you know, I actually don't like the idea of hitting on women. I like the idea of just like going and talking to them and getting comfortable doing that. And also by not hitting on them, then you don't give them the opportunity to reject you. And there's also not that pressure on the conversation either. So it's just— I think it's just better to just get out there and get experience. Like, so, so many people, especially this generation, I feel like are so plugged into their cell phones and their social media and stuff that they're almost— they're just not comfortable having normal human interaction because they just don't do it that much. I mean, you see it at parties, like fucking 10 girls will be sitting around in a corner, they're all on their fucking cell phones, you know? Like, I don't know, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's not a natural thing going up to some stranger and starting a conversation, but the more you can do that, the better You know, you'll be and I think, you know, I've gotten lazy. I've got now I'm like the total opposite. I like wait for women to come to me, but I think you'll have better results finding a better quality woman by if you see a girl, go up and fucking talk to her. Find the woman you want and go approach her. You know, for me, like I said, I got lazy and I just, you know, I let the ones approach me that'll approach me, but I think the hunt of it is fun. You know, it's something that I haven't done in a long time, but there's value in it.

A lot of men forget that women are humans, and, uh, for whatever reason, that level of anxiety gets put between you and your goal or whatever. So changing the goal is where the wall drops down. I like that. Oh, go ahead.

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, the goal shouldn't be like, oh, like, I need to get this girl's number and I need to fuck her. It's like, no, just like go up and talk to her, you know, and just ask her a question, whatever. And just the more you get comfortable doing that You know, who knows, then maybe you vibe with the girl, maybe she likes you. I mean, you're going to start to figure that out, like the more you talk to people. I mean, I learned this in poker. I mean, you can— you start reading people, you start figuring out like body language, eye contact, all these things. They're all indicators of interest or disinterest or whatever it is. So, you know, don't hit on a girl that doesn't want you, you know, like don't hit on a girl in general, but like, you know, don't ask for a number if you don't think she's, you know, if she doesn't, you know, she's not interested in you, you know, like don't set yourself up for failure. Like a lot of these guys, you know, they go to these pickup things or whatever, and their goal is just to like get as many numbers as possible. And they'll like get numbers that like don't lead to anything because the girl gave them the number just to get them the fuck out of there, or they gave them the wrong number, whatever. Like, the goal shouldn't be a number. The goal should be to like have human interaction, find a connection, find a girl that you vibe with, whatever. And then, you know, set something up. Like, not some fucking corny-ass date, but just invite her to do something fun with like you and your friends or whatever. So there's not like big Pressure on it. You're not like, you know, the moment you hit on a girl, you're indicating interest, and then she's looking for reasons to disqualify you. So like, don't lead with that. Don't like fucking start a poker hand by showing the fucking whole table your cards, you know? Like, I mean, just, you know, it's a good metaphor. Yeah, I mean, that's what you're doing. That's what you're doing by telling a girl she's fucking beautiful, let me buy you a drink. You're literally saying, I'm super into you, what can I do to like make you like me? That's what you're saying indirectly, you know, and that's not a good way to fucking lead. That's going to put her fucking walls up. That's going to make her want to disqualify you. That's going to make her look at you like every other fucking dickhead that's led with that line, which are usually a bunch of fucking losers because it's a terrible line. So you follow their lead and you're going to be lumped into that fucking category right off the bat.

Yeah, and the outcome's the same. You show your cards in poker, you're going to lose. So that's really interesting. Speaking of poker, one of my favorite lessons from that portion of the book was that You started noticing that if you were perceived as rich, you could play bigger games. Richer people were more willing to play with you, and so you could make more money. And I think that's true for— like, my audience is mainly young professionals looking to level up personally and professionally. So that's a really interesting thing. Like, what advice do you have for young professionals about perceiving, you know, like getting the world to perceive them as rich so that they can get into bigger rooms and make bigger deals?

You know, I mean, they talked about it in Boiler Room, you know, act as if. I mean, it's kind of like one of those things. I mean, that's what Ben Affleck said. He's like, act as if you have a fucking 10-inch dick. Act as if you got fucking $100 million in the bank. Like, you know, and, and that kind of like, it, it lends itself to what I was saying earlier, is that like, you know, that, you know, when, when people perceive that you don't need something, like, you know, if you got $100 million in the bank, you don't need their fucking money. Well, if I go in on a pitch and I don't need their fucking money, my pitch is going to be a lot stronger, a lot more compelling, and I'm much more likely to get the fucking money. When I pitch somebody and people know I got fucking money, they listen, right? When some fucking schlep rock from the fucking corner comes up and fucking pitches me on his fucking next great idea, I'm already closed off because I've had fucking 500 fucking guys just like him pitch me on shitty fucking ideas. And if they don't have their money to back up their fucking idea, then it's like, okay, like, let me know when you do, right? Because like, if you're willing to put your money in, then okay, I'm more willing to put my money in. And so I think a lot of these things is like, you know, you don't want to be fucking like fake about it, but there is some value in people perceiving that you don't need it, you know? And so maybe you live a little bit above your fucking means and you fucking have to hustle harder to catch up to like what you want, you know? And I, and I think a lot of people give people shit about that And whatever, but it does work sometimes, you know. And so I think, you know, there's like the whole fake it till you make it thing. I mean, the one good thing about that is it does put pressure on you to fucking make it, you know. It fucking ups the stakes of the game. And so I don't know, it just depends on what you're trying to accomplish, man. Like, every— everything is different. Like, are you in sales? Because those guys definitely benefit a lot from kind of like, you know, the fucking maximum perceived fucking, you know, wealth and whatever. Like, the richer somebody is, like I said, the more likely other people are going to want to invest, and the more likely they're going to get in the room, and the more likely you're going to get the guy's ear, and so on and so forth. So it just really depends on like what you're trying to do. It's hard to give like blanket advice. I like to give more like pinpoint advice for a certain person in a certain situation, because to me, every, every situation is going to be different, and their approach should be different. Their approach should be tailored to like you know, who they are and what they want to accomplish.

No, for sure. All right, lifetime, how much are you up in poker? What's your best guess?

I don't know, man. It's, it's hard to say. I, I stopped playing poker in— fuck, I stopped playing poker probably in like 2016-ish, I would say. Um, I I mean, shit, the, the year that I beat Alec, that was, that was a really big year. I mean, I beat him for 40-ish. I beat Sam for like around 10. I mean, I'd gotten a piece of Andy Beal that was like 20-ish, and then I had pieces of people in Macau. There, it was just like there was so much money coming in from different things. The gambling thing, I mean, I made fucking millions of dollars, um, on a free roll by just setting up a gambling account, letting a friend bet on there, and he gave me 30% of all his wins. So like, there was just so much fucking money coming in. And then I had pieces of people in my poker game. I was getting tipped out from, you know, everybody that won in my poker game was tipping me 3 to 5% of their wins. Um, I would take pieces of the good players. I mean, I— dude, it was like I literally had fucking money coming in from so many different fucking angles, it was hard to keep up with all of it. Um, and it was like that for years. It was like that since like Huh, probably started like 2013 and went to like '15 or '16. So it was like a 3-year period where it was just like, fuck. And then the more money I had, the more people wanted to fucking gamble with me, the more I could get— I could buy pieces of other players. I was investing in cryptocurrency. I had a shitload of fucking Bitcoins. I was fucking— that was like making crazy money. It was like, it was like I said, literally like a 3-year period where I couldn't fucking spend the money that was coming in. Like, I couldn't I couldn't. I tried. I bought a plane. I bought all the fucking cars. I bought all, just all the shit I wanted. And it wasn't even like coming close to like, you know, making a dent in the money that was coming in. So it was like, it was a, it was a crazy, it was a crazy period. And at that time I was also like partying a lot. And that was when I was starting the Instagram and we were just, man, I was going hard. I was buying fucking $500,000 watches. We were fucking chartering yachts. We were, you know, I was renting fucking, you know, crazy places in the Hollywood Hills.

I was throwing parties.

I mean, it was just like, you know, fuck, man. I was— it was hard to keep track of it all, to be honest. But it was, you know, like in one year it was in excess of like $50 million. So yeah.

You've lived a crazy life, man. Well, I know that, uh, here we'll kind of wrap things up with the last subject, which is your impact on the world. So I know you've talked about the fact that you don't want to have a net negative impact on the world, not that you necessarily are, but You talk about the importance of giving more than you receive, and you got to receive first, but then you can give, that sort of thing. So what's next for you? Like, what's the legacy of Dan Bilzerian going to be? And what are you focused on right now?

Man, that's a broad one.

It's a big one.

I don't know. You know, the book was like a big milestone for me. I thought that was important because it got my story out there. And I felt like it taught people about me, why I did the things that I did. It taught them a lot of the important lessons that I learned along the way. It was kind of like, you know, the cheat codes to fucking girls and the gambling and, you know, all the little like hacks that I found that were like big fucking deals and just the experiences and what I learned on the pleasure versus happiness front and the girl side and like what works with women, what doesn't work with women. You know, so that was a big project, man. And, you know, I finished that and I've just been kind of like focusing on Ignite right now. We've been absolutely fucking killing it with our nicotine vape sales. And we're in all these different countries. And so that's been a, you know, a challenge. You know, we're trying to, you know, fulfill all these orders. And it's just, man, when you're really, really growing, I mean, that's when you need the most capital and that's when it's, you know, the most time intensive. I mean, it's the most fun for sure, but it's a lot of work. And so I've been really focusing on that. I want, you know, to have that business be super fucking successful. And I think we're there. So we're just, you know, Seeing how far we can take it now. And I'm, like I said, I'm super happy with the nicotine vape because it's an industry that, like, there's not really a lot of brands and we're worldwide. And it's something that isn't fucking going anywhere. I think it's the future. I don't think people are going to be smoking cigarettes at all in fucking, like, 10 years. It's going to be all vape. And it's one of those things where people just don't stop, you know, they just don't fucking stop vaping and they consume a lot of these things. And every fucking hot chick I know is vaping, and guys are carrying around fucking vapes just because if a hot chick runs out, she'll follow him around the fucking bar like a fucking bee for fucking honey, you know? And so it's like, it's like the new bag of coke almost. So it's like everybody has these goddamn things, and you know, it's just, it's an exciting business. And I hate cigarettes, and so for me to be able to give people a much healthier alternative to smoking cigarettes, I feel good about that.

And, um, I'll tell you real quick that I was with one of my friends a month ago and he had one of yours. And I said, oh, I'm gonna interview Dan in a month or something like that. And he goes, who's that? So I mean, your products are being used by people that don't know who you are. That's how big the business is.

Yeah, no, it's fucking crazy, man. I wish I could tell you what our sales were last quarter, but we're gonna announce it here pretty soon. So yeah, exciting, exciting times.

Well, thanks for jumping on the podcast today. I really appreciate it. For people that want to get a copy of this book, where should they go? What should they do? How do you find it?

Um, ignite.co is where it's at. I think we're going to be on Amazon, but right now they're like selling the book for a lot more than what it should be. Uh, so just go to ignite.co and you'll get it for, you know, uh, retail instead of paying 3x.

Did you read Can't Hurt Me or did you listen to it?

I read it.

Are you gonna do an audio for this?

Fuck, man, I knew you were gonna ask me that.

Um, it'd be cool. I'm just saying, because Can't Hurt Me did blow up because it's a great book, but that interview style that David did for his audiobook was— it was legit.

Yeah, yeah. No, I gotta do that, man. It's just— fuck, it's a, it's a big undertaking, and, uh, I'm a bit of a procrastinator when it's something I really don't want to do. I, I just, um, you know, like I said before, I'm not really a big reader, so reading the whole book and reading it in that perfect tone— I just know what a perfectionist I am, and I know what— how fucking long it's going to take me to do that right. So I've been pushing it off. But yeah, I, I need to do it because there's a lot of people that are just lazy and don't want to read books, which is unfortunate because I, I do think that there is some real value in reading a book. Um, because it helps— it, first of all, it fixes a lot of like people's ADD issues. You know, people have so much fucking stimulation that it's like, it's good to actually just look down At fucking black type on white fucking paper and that's it, you know? And like just— and force yourself to use your imagination, visualize situations and stuff like that as opposed to like a movie that does everything for you, you know? It's like with a book, I think it does help you become more creative and it calms your mind a little bit, especially like I said, with the overstimulation that we have these days.

You're giving me soundbites for days now! Thoughts on reading and I'll tell you what, earlier you mentioned, You know, somebody that you can't get to run 10 miles, but if you paid them a million bucks, they'd do it. I hear all the time from even friends and family, listen, I could never read a book. Well, what if I paid you $10,000 to read this by Monday? Would you read it? Yeah, of course.

What if I put a fucking gun to your head?

You know what I mean?

You'll read that fucking book. Like, people say can't, you know, just far too frequently. It's, it's, it's not an— it's, it's not a can't. You can do almost anything. It's just people are too fucking lazy That's what they need to say is like, I can do it but I'm too fucking lazy to do it, you know? And it's funny because if any of my like good friends wrote a book or, you know, any girl that I was like seriously dating wrote a book, I would fucking read that shit. I mean, if it was honest and like, you know, vulnerable like, you know, my fucking book is, I feel like I would just for sure fucking read that thing. And so yeah, man, people have a lot of excuses. but 99% of them are all bullshit because if you want something, you can fucking get it! Like, I mean, I've gotten almost every single fucking thing I've ever wanted in my life and I was an underdog to do it! I was an underdog to fuck thousands of girls, I can promise you that! You met me in fucking junior high, you'd be like, there's no fucking way this dude's gonna fuck thousands of super hot chicks! No fucking chance! Or make fucking, you know, whatever, fucking tens of millions of dollars in fucking poker! There's just no way! You know? But— I don't know, man. If you want something bad enough, you can just pretty much fucking do anything. So—

Yeah. Well, with the books too, attention is going to be a— it's going to be a differentiator in the future for young professionals trying to work and get a job and start businesses. Because like, if you can abstain from like the metaverse or these social applications long enough to read a book, you're a different type of person moving forward. I mean, they're so addicting.

It's good for you. Like, I mean, it's unequivocally good for you. And I think, you know, getting away from this overstimulation, I think that actually hurts you too with social and with girls and all this stuff because if you're just so fucking stimulated and then you just have to sit there and have a conversation and use your fucking creative mind instead of all this fucking creativity being fucking forced into your fucking brain, I mean, it's a whole separate skill set, you know? And it's something that I think, you know, it's like a lot of, you know, it's like a muscle. If you don't work a muscle, it's gonna fucking atrophy and, you know, if you don't use your imagination, your creativity and your fucking brain, it's gonna atrophy and so—

Yeah!

Being forced a shitload of stimulation down your throat isn't really like, you know, helping your creativity. It's, it's everything is being presented to you. And I think that's true of a lot of stuff these days. So, um, there's definitely value in reading books, man. I, I didn't like it, and then I had to do it so much here that I started to see the value in it. So, you know, I, I, uh, I get it now, but you have to do it to get it, you know.

Hit me up whenever you need a book recommendation, man. And I like specific book recommendations, just like you like giving out specific advice. If you say, hey, I need help in this area, I'm your guy. I can tell you what to read.

Cool, man. Yeah, we'll, uh, I'll hit you up for that.

Well, Mr. Bilzerian, you're a smart guy, and I'm happy that we had this conversation, and I'm happy that you wrote the book. So I'll let you go. Any final words for everybody?

I appreciate the interview, and I'm glad that you, uh, you liked the book and that you got a lot out of it, because I certainly fucking put a lot into it. So It's always— I feel like of all the things that I accomplished, somebody telling me that they really enjoyed my book makes me happier than probably any of the other stuff. So yeah, stoked to do it.

I got you, man. All right. Take care. Have a great rest of your day. Cool.

Thanks, brother. You too.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.