How Chronic Illness & Imposter Syndrome Don't Define Your Success with Bre Clark

And so I've been trying to clarify, you know, a lot of people who deal with it, they're successful women, type A personalities who are crushing it, but they feel like they're still trying to crush it. They're trying to arrive. They're trying to do things. It's interesting because a lot of people who deal with chronic illness or deal with any type of barrier in their lives who are very successful, it's very easy for imposter syndrome to seep in and say, maybe I'm not the right person for this. You know, my disease was caused by me, you know, or I should be doing better. I should be able to beat this. I should be able to do it by myself. All these types of things come to mind. And so I don't think a lot of people realize that this is another added layer that comes with dealing with life.

Welcome to Crafted to Thrive, the globally ranked podcast for entrepreneurs living with chronic illness. I'm your host, Nikita Williams, and after being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses myself, I figured out the surprisingly simple missing links to growing a profitable business without compromising my health. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do the same. If you're ready to own your story and create a thriving business that aligns with your health and wellbeing, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for entrepreneurs with chronic illness. This is Crafted to Thrive.

I am so excited to have Bree on the show. She reached out to me, so I'm really excited because she wanted to share something that I feel like all of us deal with so much in the chronic illness community and just in life in general, which is imposter syndrome and— it looks different, I feel like, for different spaces that we're in. But I'm so excited to have you on. So please tell us where you are, what you're up to right now besides recording with me, and we'll hop right on into it. Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me on the show.

I'm super excited. I really— I've listened to your episodes. And so I was listening to an episode, and I told my team, I was like, you know what, let's reach out to her. Let's see if we can talk and just have a discussion and everything. I am in Austin, Texas. That's where my family is based. And when this airs, it'll probably still be hot. So yeah, it's hot. But, you know, we— my family and I, we keep bouncing back and forth. And we keep ending up back in Austin. So we say that this is our forever home base. Even if, you know, we leave, I'm sure we'll be dragged back here. But I am a multimedia journalist. I've been in that field for over a decade. I'm a talk show host now, mom of 1, 2, soon to have another. So 2 kids we'll have. And so we're just— I've been married for over a decade as well. And so we're just kind of in this journey of just trying our best to leave a legacy of helping people at this point in our lives.

I love that. And it's so important too. And I think it's going to be powerful for your kids too. I always think about this when kids would be like, yeah, my mom was like on TV and she had a podcast episode. Like she had podcast store. Like a show and all that kind of stuff, I think it brings that journey along with them versus like back in the day used to have the books. And even though those are important too, but they'll be able to visually see so many of these different things that create and leave a mark on people.

Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully by then they'll be a little bit further than we all are, you know, when it comes to dealing with these things, you know, they'll have more emotional intelligence and all that kind of stuff. But hopefully we'll break some of those generational curses.

Hopefully.

When that comes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, tell me, why is imposter syndrome such a passion project topic for you? How has this shown up for you? And why is it something that you want to help people to kind of identify and overcome?

The main reason I want to talk about imposter syndrome and just kind of put it out there wherever I can is because it's a relatively new concept that people are understanding. It's— there's been a study that was done back in the '70s, so it's not a— a new phenomenon that we're just now finding out about. It's just now we're finally talking about it. And there's more resources out there, but they're still very limited. You can find all this stuff about depression, anxiety, dealing with parenting and aging and all that kind of stuff. But when it comes down to imposter syndrome, there's still a lot to learn. And in the process, there's a lot of misconceptions out there about it. So if I were to break it down, imposter syndrome is just the inability to acknowledge your accomplishments, your value, your worth, you know. And sometimes that's external factors that have contributed to that. And sometimes it's internal, you know, factors. And sometimes it's a mixture of both. But what I'm finding is a lot of people think it's, oh, I just need to learn to be myself. That's what imposter syndrome is. You know, I need to stop. Walking around being fake. That is not it whatsoever. And so I've been trying to clarify, you know, imposter syndrome is you're already great. You know, a lot of people who deal with it, they're successful women, type A personalities who are crushing it, but they feel like they're still trying to crush it.

You know what I mean? Yeah.

They're trying to arrive. They're trying to do things. And so when I listen to your show, it's— interesting because a lot of people who deal with chronic illness or deal with any type of barrier in their lives who are very successful, it's very easy for imposter syndrome to seep in and say, maybe I'm not the right person for this. You know, my disease was caused by me, you know. Or I should be doing better. I should be able to beat this. I should be able to do it by myself. All these types of things come to mind. And so I don't think a lot of people realize that this is another added layer that comes with dealing with life, especially for women who are trying to leave their mark on this world in some kind of way.

Yeah. I think you hit it. I love that you said it's not that you aren't successful. It's not that you're already crushing it. I think what you're saying is that it's more that you're questioning if you are actually successful, if you're actually crushing it, and if you aren't doing enough, right? And I think that's a piece— —of imposter syndrome. For me, I literally was just recording an episode earlier today with someone, and I was like, yeah, that's imposter syndrome. Like, yeah, yeah, it's sneaking up there. How have you experienced imposter syndrome in your journey? Because you have a very vast experience in being on TV, being a journalist, and in different ways. How has this affected you, and how are you bringing that experience into how you're having this conversation?

Yeah, so for me, imposter syndrome, I learned about the term late in my 20s. And so a lot of people say, well, that's not late. But it's not late for me. I wish I would have known a little earlier, probably in my college years, about it. I graduated very early. So I did everything early. You know, I graduated— I was barely 20 when I graduated from college. Wow. And I got married right after that, you know? We had a kid not too long after that. So we— you know, a lot of things were happening very soon in my life. And I started my career at the age of 19 in broadcast journalism. So here I am, this young person who's just being introduced to the world and is living all types of life very quickly. And a lot of times, I felt like, oh, I'm failing because I had had this— head start, I would say. I had this head start. And I was trying my hardest to keep that head start. It's like, hey, I'm a journalist. I'm doing this. I'm at this top 10 market in Houston, Texas. I'm a producer. You know, what else can I do? And am I doing this well enough? And I wasn't very great at the producing side. I'm better on camera. And so it was a lot of trying to figure out how to navigate a whole bunch of life changes, all at once and wanting to be the best I could at all of them all at the same time, not realizing life is life. It happens. It happens over the course of 70 years or more if we're lucky. And I was trying to take and shovel all this life in a very short period of time because I felt like there were things that I needed to accomplish before the age of 30, you know. And so there was all this pressure, outside pressure that was also pushing that. As an African American woman, you're told you got to do it. You know, you got to do these things. And you have to be the best because people aren't going to believe that you're good at whatever you're good at. You know, you're going to have to work that much harder. So I'm getting those messages on top of all the internal stuff. And so it was a lot of that. And with that came a lot of stress. And with all that stress in such a short period of time, comes illnesses, right? And so in my 30s now, we're trying to kind of figure out what some of those things are. I've gone through a lot of tests to kind of trying to figure out exactly what it is that I'm dealing with— being tired, being agitated sometimes, gaining weight up and down, those types of things— and just navigating my health inside and out for the very first time, taking those things seriously. But in that, feeling this guilt of I should be able to still do all the things in the process of healing, which is just not the case. And so that's where my dive into imposter syndrome happened, was in my career, feeling like I was failing at everything when everybody around me was telling me I'm not. And me feeling like I was being patronized, and people like, oh, they just like me. Oh, they just— they love me. They have to say that. And so that's kind of how my journey started. It was back in my 20s when I was like, look, enough is enough. I am not doing well, you know. Yeah. How do I navigate this? And someone mentioned the term to me. And I just started to deep dive and started realizing that there wasn't a lot of resources out there for it. And that's when I decided to start a talk show to kind of talk about it, to let people know this is a thing. And people who look like me, look like they're very successful, deal with it on a daily basis. And the more we talk about it, the more we can get past it.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. 19. Yeah. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah. 19. I feel like when we're in our teenage brain still at that age, even though for women, we— I mean, there is science that says that at that age for women, we're usually more around the cognitive level of like 22, 24. Even still to feel that feeling of not enoughness or like I'm missing something or I'm not doing enough at that age to be in that place can definitely be relatable for so many of us, right? When I think about that, I think about living with chronic illness and how people are like, how are you doing this? People are telling you, you're doing so many things, you're doing wonderful, and you're literally in the corner thinking, is anybody going to call me out in like 2 seconds? Like, is somebody going to be like, she should not be in this room right now. She does not know what she's talking about. Even though you've done the work, you've gotten to this place, you wouldn't have at 19 gotten into the newsroom broadcast journaling if you didn't know what you were doing. How have you found your safety in learning how to navigate that even today?

Yeah, community has been a big part of that. So surrounding myself, which was hard because people who suffer from imposter syndrome, if they do know it's imposter syndrome, even saying that they're suffering with it, there's a fear of I'm going to be found out. You know, and people are going to say, no, that's not imposter syndrome. You just are awful. You know, like, Quinn, you're not capable. It's like, it's not imposter syndrome. You're just incompetent. You know, those are the things that you're worried you're about to hear. And so being in the spotlight on camera, you're asked to hide a lot of yourself, right? You're asked to be yourself, but not too much of yourself. Show everybody the good parts. But all the rest of that, you just keep it in. You carry it home, you know, with you, especially when you're a journalist, when you're on camera. And so it was very hard for me to reach out to people. Luckily, I was married. That was the blessing of being married super early, is I had my husband who— who often just kind of spoke the opposite of those thoughts that I was thinking. And of course, I thought, oh, he loves me. He doesn't want to say it. He's going to tell me, you know, all these things. But the truth is, it started with him. It was, no, you can do this. And he would list off everything that proved that I was where I needed to be, that I deserved to be there, you know, and that— I should want more at times when I didn't want more, you know. And so I was lucky to have him. And then later, you know, towards the end of my 20s, I met all of these different women here in Austin, Texas, who I became friends with. And we started dreaming together. These are all entrepreneurial-minded women who, you know, really had dreams, had goals. And some of them felt like, can I do this? Am I good enough to do this? What am I thinking? Is this crazy? And so we would just all talk to one another. And we would do those same things, those same discussions that me and my husband were having, we were having in this group. And it would be like, no, come on. You can do this, you know. And so being in community and being honest and vulnerable was the thing that kind of helped me kind of navigate imposter syndrome. Now, I'm not going to lie and say that I'm completely fine. I don't have those thoughts in those moments. Yeah. They are few and far between. They don't happen as often. And so community is what you need because you can't do any of this alone, especially if you're dealing with other life things on top of that. I mean, most of us on that group have kids. Most of us on that group are in some type of relationship if we're not married. All of us are— very diverse, different, you know, women of color. And we're all battling life, you know, as well as these thoughts of, can I do this, right? And so having that community is the most crucial part of it, you know, after you're identifying what it is. And so I think a lot of people are also just walking around not realizing that they're suffering from imposter syndrome. They think it's depression. They think it's anxiety. And for me, I thought it was depression, solely depression, you know. And so I found myself trying to heal what I thought was depression when that was never the case. You know, it was, hey, I think I should be able to do all the things on my own all the time. And no one can do that. That's not how we're built. So community is a big part that kind of has helped me, you know, move past. A lot of some of these issues I was dealing with.

I love that you said that. I feel like it's like when people say, you know what you need to do when you need to lose weight? Like, you need to eat better. You need to sleep. You need to exercise. And you're like, I wish someone would have said something else, like take a pill or something, like something other than those things. But I feel like community is so underrated when it comes to so many things, specifically in imposter syndrome. And it is so important, as you're saying, like to have those people in your life to really breathe that belief into like kind of give you a wall to put that self-doubt somewhere else and to hear it, see it, hear it differently. Yeah. There was something you said earlier that made me think about this in the context of where you're working from, because I think a lot of my clients and people that I talk to is this public persona, like in the community. If you're honest and vulnerable, they know the real you. They know what's going on. They know, you know, your demons and your angels, things that are going on in your head. But everyone else doesn't know. And so you were saying in your journey, being on camera, being in the persona of people seeing you as a news anchor versus what really was going on, it's very similar to women that I work with with chronic illness. Many of us are invisible chronic illness warriors. You cannot see from our faces and our body that we deal with pain, like debilitating pain, pain that brings you to the hospital, like pain, right? And you're still showing up.

To me, that adds to that imposter syndrome so much.

And I'm wondering, what would you say to someone who's listening to this and is like, yeah, I have imposter syndrome, and yeah, it's heightened because of this kind of two worlds of us, like we are two worlds. How does that work?

Yeah, so first I would say you gotta identify where some of those thoughts come from, you know, because you had some of those thoughts patterns before you got diagnosed with whatever it is. It makes me think about my mom. My mom has struggled with illness my entire life where she's in pain and you'd never know. You know, she gets tired and you'd never know. And my mom, I have always thought she was Superwoman. You know, I've always thought, especially now that I'm a mom, I'm like, how did she do all of this stuff? You know, and I remember saying, Mom, you know, you never asked for help. Why didn't you ask for help? And she says, you know, well, I just thought I needed to be able to do it for you all. I didn't want you all to look at me and think, Oh, you know, what is she doing? You know, when those types of thoughts, they carry into your children. You know, those types of thoughts, they carry into your community. And if you're not open about what's going on, it's hard. It's hard for you to continue. You got to identify where those thoughts come from. And so I come from a generation of very strong women. Who want to be very independent, who are very independent. But with that comes this level of toxic thinking of, hey, I have to do this myself. Oh, and if they found out, this is what they're going to think, right? So you have to identify where that comes from. And so for a lot of my— the women in my family, it's being African-American women who felt that they did not have the right nor the space to fail in any way. Because if I fail, it's over. If I slip up, it's over. I've worked so hard for this opportunity when no one wanted me to have this opportunity. If I fail, it's over. And it's not just over for me. It's over for my children and their children and their children's children. And so that's kind of, you know, the ideas that were introduced, you know, in my culture. And so recognizing— for her, I think recognizing, hey, this is an issue, kind of helped her in later years. You know, when I was a teenager, she would start asking us for help. You know, if there's something— can you clean your room? You know, those types of things. Yeah. And so I think recognizing that I had a mom who I thought was Superwoman because she did all the things, I'm now comparing, you know, ugh. I need to be super mom, like mom, and do all the things. Because she was hurting, she didn't feel good, and she still did all of that. Why can't I, right? So you have to identify those why can't I's, or what if I, or if I— those types of thinking, you got to identify them. And you have to take note of them. And if it helps, write them down so that you know, look, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm saying to myself. And does it sound like love? So I tell people when they're trying to overcome this type of thing, especially if they're dealing with something that's life-altering on top of that, to navigate those thoughts and then give yourself grace because you are not pouring from the same cup that a healthy person is pouring from. You are pouring from a cup that is already depleted. And that is not your fault. There should be no shame in that. Your cup is already depleted. It's not fair. Let's move past that. What can you do to give yourself grace? It could start with the way you speak to yourself. It can start with the type of love and self-care that you show yourself, to be patient with yourself. And if that means the dishes have to wait, they have to wait. If that means that you can't get that report in that day, it's going to have to wait, you know? And just giving yourself grace. And demanding that people around you also give you that grace because you have a right to it. Because I mean, that's honest. Truth about it is you can give yourself self-care all day. But if you have a boss or a spouse or a friend or a family member or someone in your life who's demanding more of you than they should, then that's not OK. And don't say, oh, well, they should treat everybody the same way. No. That's not how life works. No one is being treated the same way ever. Demand that grace, right? And so that's what I would tell your viewers, your audience, is that, you know, identify where that came from, give yourself grace, and then demand the grace that you deserve. Those three elements, that's what's going to change. That's what's going to help, you know, move forward. And you might actually find healing in that physically.

As well. Yeah, it's so true, Bri, that I went through that experience. I still go through that experience. I still go through that experience of acknowledging that it's not necessarily a comparison. I think it's the comparison with what your own expectations are of yourself that aren't really realistic in the first place. Yeah. And to your point of really, really thinking about where does this come from, I didn't— we didn't just come out the womb with the thoughts of I need to be doing everything. Because for a very long time, from baby birth to what, 3, 4, or 5, we depended on someone else to take care of some of our needs, right? And if they were not fulfilled, we're getting into the psychology because you guys know how much I love psychology. But any of that stuff we get into, a lot of those thoughts and a lot of those things we deal with when it comes to imposter syndrome, when it comes to the comparison, It's because a little version of us when we were younger thought, well, I should, and I'm responsible for taking care of this thing, and no one else can do it. I need to create safety for myself, so I'm going to take it on. I'm going to be the one, right? And in reality, what if that was never your responsibility? Yeah. Right? And I think that part, like you were saying, just to identify do I even want to be like my mom? That's the one thing I said recently. Like, do I really want to be Superwoman like that? Because she, as much as she had it going on and as much as she had things happening, man, I remember being a kid thinking like, that seems like a lot. As a kid, seeing like, that's a lot, right? And so I love that you said like, where's this coming from? You know where it's coming from. Such a good point. Yeah, yeah.

And just it's not that— I mean, there are things that are like in life that are serious. Yeah. But if we really think about the things that are keeping us up, that are bothering us when it comes to not resting, when it comes to striving and thinking, oh, I'm going to be successful if I do this checklist of things, it is not that serious. Honestly, the most success that I had in my career is when I stopped worrying about a lot of those checklist things. When I said, you know what, fine, I can't do it, fine. That's always when the calls came. It was when I was like, you know what, I'm done. I can't do this, you know, is when I got the calls that was like, hey. I remember my call to be the main anchor in a town where I had been a reporter before. The main anchor was retiring. And they called me up and said, hey, Bree, she's retiring. Do you want to be our main anchor? And I remember thinking, do you have the right number? I don't think you have the right number. And at the time— I've never told anyone this, so all your viewers are getting the scoop— I was laying in my son's playroom feeling so defeated because there were so many things that I wanted to have accomplished that week that I hadn't accomplished. I was a stay-at-home mom. I wasn't on television anymore. My son was running around crazy. He was, you know, 2 years old. And I'm laying in his playroom on the couch like, you know what? I give up. I just give up. I just give up. Like, I guess this is just my life. You know? I can't do anything right. And then I get a call, hey, we want you to come and be our main anchor. And no, it's not that serious. I didn't— I wasn't doing all the things. I wasn't doing all the list. I was just trying to survive. And here I'm getting a call, you know, about— you know, that would change the trajectory of my career. You know? And then not too long after that, it's like, hey, I'm going to start my own talk show. You know? Who am I to do that? But I'm going to do it. And I wasn't checking off the things then either. I was like, hey, I'm in this industry because my child needs me. Yeah. What am I going to do now? And I got approached to do a talk show. Checking off the things on your list is not going to change whatever it is that this life has for you. Ooh. And I believe that when you're dealing with an illness, You know, your healing is not going to come because you've checked out all these lists. You know, you can—

I got goosebumps when you said that, girl. I'm like over here like, ooh, ooh.

You know, you find that you're doing this deep dive in Google. I mean, I watched my mom do that, trying to figure out what it is— what she could do to be healthy so she could accomplish more. When I was looking at her as a child feeling like, she was doing everything, that, oh my gosh, how am I ever going to live up to this? I don't think it was that analytical at the time. My thought was probably a little simpler than that. But I look at it now thinking, how am I going to do this? All these types of things. And the truth is, who says that that's who you're supposed to be? Who says that that's where you're going to find your happiness and your success? So I would ask, people to take that pressure off themselves as we move forward. Because that's the other part of the healing is just taking that pressure off internally and externally. Just take that pressure off. Because what's supposed to come will come. And I'm not talking about manifestation. I'm just talking about what's for you will be for you.

It will happen. You know? Yeah. It's so right. It is. I feel— you know, it's so funny that you say that about when you take the pressure off and— or it's not that big of a deal when you're just like, in the moment, in the zone, and you're not allowing all of that pressure to be in the way. And then, or even if you are and you feel completely stuck, and then someone calls you out and it's like, hey, we would love to have you. You're like, I'm over here thinking I am dust, even though technically I am, but like, I think I'm lower than dust, and I'm over here feeling this way and someone wants to work with me. I feel like that is a common That's such a— like, every person I've ever talked to who has a business and has chronic illness, this is usually the main imposter feeling. I don't know why people are paying me for this. And it's that feeling because you're kind of thinking like, I should be better, I should be doing better. But the moment you kind of release that— I've had that experience too, Bri, where I'm like, I'm whatever, whoever's gonna call me is gonna call me, whoever's not gonna call me is not gonna call me. Like, it's And then it's like the floodgates open. I'm like, are you serious? Are you serious? What is that? Yeah. I don't know.

There's no name. I don't know if there's a name for it. If there is, message in. Let us know. I don't know if there's a name for it. But I just— I've seen it happen, not only in my lives, but other people. Like, luckily, in the short time I've been on this Earth, I've seen it happen. It's happened in my life 3 different times. We struggled to have our child. And I started blaming myself, saying, you know what, maybe it's because I'm not going to be a good mom. That's how deep my imposter syndrome was. It wasn't just in the corporate world. It was in every facet of my life. Maybe I'm just not going to be a good mom, and that's why I can't have one, because we lost our first. And the moment I left and went back to work— way before this, you know, I went back to work. I went to Spokane, Washington to be a reporter there. The moment I stopped worrying about it, we had one. We had one. And the doctor said I wouldn't be able to have one. They said, you're not healthy enough. Something's not quite right. You're not going to be able to have one. And here we are. We had one. You know?

You're on number 2. And now I'm on number 2.

You know? And so things happen. You know, things don't always work out. I mean, because obviously I had to go through the loss of a child to get to my child. Obviously, I had to go through my mother being sick to get to being a 19-year-old successful in college. You know, there's a lot that— life is messy. And you're going to have all this stuff that happens. But don't let those things make you think that it's you, that you're failing in some way, that you're lacking in some way.

Because that's not the case. Yeah. So such a good, good message. So if someone's listening right now and they're thinking, how do I know that I've gone down the pit of imposter syndrome? Like, I know— like, how can they identify some things about themselves without judgment? Because I like to say we all got stuff. And this isn't an episode to necessarily be like, oh, so you've got it, like another label. More of like an acknowledgment. Of being like, oh, that's what I'm dealing with versus like, oh, that's what I'm dealing with. Like, what are some of the things that they can think about? Yeah.

So we talked about the questions that we ask ourselves, like, who am I? Why would they hire me? Why am I here? You know, what do they see in me to do this? Can I really do this? You know, am I this great person that they think I am? Whatever positive thing that someone has labeled on you, and you think, I'm not that. They think I'm that, but I'm not that. I'm not good. You know, that's when you start to say, OK, where are these thoughts? Those are very much imposter thoughts. But also, when it comes to comparison, if you find yourself comparing yourself to other people, not just on social media, because we do a lot of that, but if you find yourself comparing and you think, I did a good job, but I didn't do that as good as so-and-so. And because of that, I'm not great at this at all. If it's a very black and white, oh, I could do— we could all say, I can do better. Yeah. But if that I can do better is I'm just not good at it because I'm not at this level yet, that's imposter syndrome, right? You did put a book out there. It might not have as many sales as Oprah's book, but Oprah is Oprah. You know? So you can't— You can't say, hey, it's not there, so I'm not an author. You wrote a book. So you're an author, right? It's that simple. So if you start having those thoughts, the thoughts of who am I, and then the thoughts of comparison that invalidate you completely, you're dealing with imposter syndrome. Also, if you're working yourself to the point of burnout,— and this is not just at work, but also at home. If you're doing— trying to do everything all at once, all on your own, because you feel like you have to, or that says something about you as a person, you are dealing with imposter syndrome, right? Or close to it. And so I tell people to look at these things. And the best way to identify those things is to write them down. Because you're going to forget about them, or your brain is going to distract you. Because that's the tricky thing about imposter syndrome. I say we have to unmask it all the time because your brain tries to mask it, right? Because you, at the core, none of us want to be incompetent. None of us want to feel like we're fake or that we're not good. Right. But your brain starts to try and mask it when you start to dissect those things. So I tell people to write it down. Write everything down. Write all those thoughts down. And when you start to look at them and you identify and you agree and you say, OK, yeah, this is probably imposter syndrome, immediately start writing the opposite of those thoughts, facts and proof that disprove those thoughts that you're having. It's like, oh, I'm not as sick as so-and-so, so maybe I don't really have this thing. No, you have a diagnosis from your doctor. Yeah, doesn't matter how that manifested in them. You have a diagnosis, right? Or you are in pain. Your pain may not keep you at home in bed, but you are in pain, right? Something is going on. So you write the opposite of those, you know, those things and the proof that validate, hey, I am who I, I say I am. This is what it is. And then you find community. And you take those things to community, someone you can trust that you know isn't just going to be a yes man for you, but is really going to sit with you and support you in a loving way. Yeah. And say, hey, you're right. And let me add some of these other things that I've noticed that you forgot about to that list. And that is how you identify it. And move past it at the same time. It all has to happen together. Because if you do just kind of one piece and you walk away from it, your brain and the distractions of life aren't going to let you do that full process. It is work. It is a lot of work to move past it. But it is possible. Yeah.

Yeah. You broke down that in such a beautiful way. I'm going to share something super vulnerable here in a second. But the writing down and then— like to sit with it and acknowledge it, right? Like, acknowledge it, not judge it, just acknowledge it, work with it. And then to bring it to community is such a powerful 3-part system of that. I think it's such a great way to help you find the evidence to disprove those, because they're lies. Really what we're saying is like imposter syndrome is a lie. It's all of the lies our brain is trying to tell us. About ourselves from the negative point of view because our brain really is often trying to save us, keep us safe, and keeping us safe might mean staying smaller, not being seen, working harder so that no one actually sees what you're doing, all these things, right? And it's interesting, I have one sticky little imposter thought recently, and it's been like, my husband's been really working with me, and it's because —of society. I think it's more because of society and also social media and also being a woman of color because of the way we often are spoken about, what we're perceived about. And I'm always like— one of my biggest imposter syndrome thoughts that I'm constantly working evidence for is, am I Black enough? I know that's the most ridiculous thing, right? Am I Black enough? My husband's like, um, He's a jokester. He's like, does your birth certificate say you're Black? I think you are. Like, there isn't a scale of what is Black and what's not Black. Like, you are Black. Like, that's what it is. And I find it so fascinating how the brain does it. But I've realized the reason the brain does it for me is because it's this idea that I've put myself in this comparison, right? This comparison of what a successful Black person, Black woman would be doing. And so in my measurement of that, I'm looking at it that way, like, oh, well, I'm not quite there yet, or I'm not that much into the Black culture, or whatever, like some crazy stuff. So I've been really working on the evidence of being like, how am I Black? It sounds so silly when you write it down. You're like, uh, because I am. What does that even mean? Like, your brain starts thinking. For me, it's been like the— I'm in the process of like identifying like, this doesn't even make sense why you're even asking this question. It's foolery. It's foolery. But it's powerful when you can have that with yourself, right? Like, when you can give yourself that permission to go there. I don't know. Do you have any like thoughts or imposter thoughts that you're like, come on, that was ridiculous? Yes.

Oh no, exactly what you just said is a thought that I had for a long time. Like, you said that and I was like, oh, she's reading my mail. When I was called to be the main anchor, I was called to be a main anchor in a predominantly white state. Like, honestly, I think 2% is their African-American community in the entire state, right? So I was called to be the state— this state has— they had never had an African-American anchor. Ever in the history of the state. And this is 2015. Wow. Whoa. Well, 2015 is when I was their weekend anchor. I left and came back in 2020 in the middle of the pandemic when all this race stuff is happening. Oh my gosh. I was called to be their first African-American anchor. And I have had a lot of privilege in my life. And I've been having to tell people, I recognize that I have privilege. But because of that privilege, Sometimes I feel like I don't have the right to represent a whole social group as an African American. So that was hard being there because I had thoughts. It was like, who am I to sit up here in this state where people have never really seen anyone who's looked like me? Who am I to represent that group to them, right? Am I representing it the right way? Am I handling some of these news articles that we're reporting on about, you know, these, you know, protests and stuff. Am I representing them the right way? Am I doing my race justice? Am I being fair? Should I even be able to talk about this? Like, those were a lot of the thoughts that I was having on a daily basis. And then also having questions from my, you know, coworkers that it's like, do I answer this? Do I not answer this? And then getting hate mail and wondering, should I share this or not? You know, am I Black enough to say that this is racism against me? You know? And so that was what I was dealing with. It's like, oh, OK. Like, and so those battles happened every— I will say every day for a long while. And I finally had that stop when I had this thought. Someone had written into the station, said it was very offensive to have someone like me on television. And I wrestled with— and it wasn't the first one. It was just the first one that was very blatant in, I do not think it's OK that you have this woman on television. Wow. And I wrestled with if I should share it. And I was talking to my producer. I shared it with my husband, my very white husband. I said, this is the email I got. And he was furious. He was angry. And he said, no, you need to let people know. That this is the kind of— you know, he's like, enough is enough. Like, you've been sending this and you have people around you who are saying that racism doesn't exist and you're getting these type of emails. You need to, you know, reveal that this is the case. And I thought, no, they're going to think that I'm lying. They're going to think that I made this up. They're going to think that this isn't a big deal. They're going to think that I read it wrong, all this kind of stuff. And so I almost didn't post it. And so I said, you know what? I'm going to take this as an opportunity instead— instead of just putting it out there on social media to thank all of the people in this community who have sent me flowers, who have sent me cards, who have welcomed me to their state, and say and explain that the only reason I was able to go home that night without falling apart and quitting was because of the support I had got from the community. And this is what was said to me. I put that out there. And I was expecting, you know, a couple of likes, you know, maybe. So I was expecting a lot of backlash and to just move on. It got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people responding to it, saying, no, we love you. We think you're great. A lot of African Americans telling me, we're so happy that you're here in the state representing us because we haven't had that. Thank you. You know, my daughter watches you every day. She's biracial, and she finally feels like she has someone that, you know, she can see. Just all those types of things with letters and flowers and all this kind of stuff. And I finally had to look at myself and say, this is the proof right here. All of these people who saying, yes, you represent us. Yes, you look like us. Yes, you're needed here because we haven't had it. That I was able to use to stop that lie. Because there's no such thing as Black enough, right? We come in so many colors and shades and everything. So many. We all sound different and come from different parts of this country. You know, that's something that, yeah, I've had to deal with. And so that's my long way of saying I agree with you. And I feel the struggle. Oh, wow.

Well, I am so glad. This is— OK, so this is an example of community. Yeah. Right here. Bursting up some of these lies and this imposter syndrome. Like, yeah, I think it's, it's real. And I don't think admitting or sharing these stories makes anyone less anything. If anything, it gives someone else permission to admit or to see that, oh, I kind of view myself in a certain way and it's not necessarily the most positive way and I'm okay with hopefully being seen in a positive way in the future with myself. Like you were saying earlier, giving yourself that compassion and that self-care. It's okay, it's okay, totally okay. So good. Well, now that I bared my soul and so did you, um, yeah, yeah, I was like thinking, um There was something that you said earlier I wanted to ask you about, which was, I find imposter syndrome is kind of sneaky because sometimes it's not necessarily what you're thinking, but it's something that you're doing that's kind of keeping you hidden. So it like holds you, like you, you don't even realize you're hiding. I find that with my clients, I'll ask them and they'll be like, oh, I don't, I don't think I even realized I was doing that. In what ways can you be hiding? In your life or personal life when you are dealing with imposter syndrome unbeknownst to yourself? Yeah, isolation. And I don't mean complete isolation.

I don't mean you don't talk to anybody or anything like that. When you are scared to share with other people. When you hear someone, like right now, like how we just shared a moment. In the past, I probably would have just let you share that. And say, oh, if I share mine, mine isn't as— mine isn't as valid as what she just said. You know, that might have been something that I would say or do or withhold, you know. And not engaging in community wholeheartedly because you're worried someone's going to see you, right? For a long time, I didn't share myself with other people. It was like, hey, my husband, that's all I need. It's just us, you know. And I had friends, but they were more of surface-level friendships. They didn't go deep. We didn't talk about anything. My business was my business, and I wasn't going to share anything with anybody, which is very prevalent in the African-American community.

Yes, it is. So no.

Don't share your business, right? Because the less they know— Don't tell nobody.

Yeah. How dare you? How many mama moments did we have?

Like, how did you go out there and tell— you telling our business? Ooh. Yes, yes, yes, a butt whooping waiting to happen. That was it. But— and I agree to some extent. You don't share everything. No one keeps it 100, no matter how they say that they do. Because there are certain things that just people don't need to know, that that is none of their business. But there are some things with people that you can trust that you do need to share those things because it's not fair. Otherwise, you're not really doing community, otherwise. So if you see yourself isolating and not actually engaging with community, it's probably because you're dealing with imposter syndrome. And that's something that you would probably do is just kind of stray away from community and not share. The other thing is what you'll also probably do is twist when you have those moments with people and you're going through the facts, you will twist those back to validate the lies that you're telling yourself to be true. So it's like, oh, your thought might be, hey, the only reason they gave me this promotion is because they like me. And your combat to that is, well, but I've put in the work, right? Your mind will twist that new affirmation that you have that you are not an imposter and say, yeah, but you didn't put in that much work. Or you didn't put in as much work as so-and-so, right? Or they didn't even look at that, so they didn't make an informed decision. You know, those types of things, right? You will try and twist and go back to that lie because your brain has created it. You've been telling yourself that lie for so long that your brain can't let go of it because you've tricked yourself into believing it protects you. A lot of people believe that their imposter syndrome is the reason that they're successful, right? For me, I thought that for the longest time. I'm like, hey, I'm successful because I make myself do these things. You know, I make myself, you know, be Brie Clark, right, instead of realizing I'm Brie Clark all the time, right? The Brie Clark that people are seeing is not a fake Brie Clark, right? It's the best 110% that Brie Clark can be. But Brie Clark cannot be 110% all the time. That's burnout, right? And so that is what you'll do when you have imposter syndrome. You'll isolate, you'll twist those thoughts that you have. And you'll just find a way to keep yourself in that bubble because there's this thought that I'm successful. I've been doing it this way for so long, right? It's obviously working for me, you know? When it's not, you're causing yourself depression. You're causing yourself anxiety. You're causing yourself illness when you don't address imposter syndrome. There's a lot at stake, you know, that people just don't realize.

Yeah, our thoughts, y'all, they have so much power over our bodies and how we respond to them. Like, if you've ever read the book The Body Takes the Blow, it's an amazing book. It's about trauma and like negative thinking and how it literally affects and creates these symptoms that we all deal with, you know, depression, certain chronic illnesses. It triggers different diagnoses, things that were dormant then become not dormant, like all of these things, a lot of it is systematic from what our thoughts are doing in our head and how it affects our body. And so you're so right. Those thoughts, they're hard to identify, especially if they're sneaky. So that's why I wanted to ask that question and be like, what would you be doing if you were like, I don't have imposter syndrome. I'm fine. This is what it could look like.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely could look like those things.

Yes. Yeah. And I think it's interesting too, because when you were talking about the isolating, especially for my chronic illness warriors and also like the turning the thoughts, especially if you're an entrepreneur, there is, that's a very common one that I'm guilty of and I see my clients go through, which is the thinking of they don't realize it's imposter syndrome when they're comparing. Someone says, oh, you did such a good job. I can't believe, like, some of my clients recently just started their own podcast and they've had a lot of things going on. And I'm like, it's amazing that you're doing this. It's so great that you're doing this. And then they internalize and say, well, it's not as good as so-and-so, and I just started. And I'm like, do you know how hard this is for just a normal person? To do. Like, it's, it's amazing. But that in itself is the comparison often comes into like an able-bodied person who doesn't have a chronic illness or disability that we know of. We compare to what we believe the normal person would have been able to accomplish if they didn't have chronic illness. And it's never the— it's never the case. It's just a lie. So I, I appreciate you sharing that because I definitely wanted them to have an idea of like Oh, I kind of do do that, and now I know why. Yeah, yeah, yes. So powerful. So thank you for sharing all of this information about imposter syndrome. If someone were listening to this, what would you want them to know? Yeah, oh gosh, there's a lot I would want to know.

That's like a whole other episode of what the things I wish— want you to know. Oprah has a book similar to that, The Things I— I'm sure— I'm going to get it wrong, so never mind. But basically, what I would tell people is it's just to be kind to yourself, to show yourself that love and that compassion is the most important thing. And I'm not saying it in a very superficial way, like, oh, love yourself, because that's hard when you're living in a world that is telling you that there's something wrong with you every step of the way. That you need to be better, you need to be richer, you need to be thinner, you need to be smarter, you know, you need to be lighter, you know, these things. That is what the messages that people are coming against. And when you're dealing with imposter syndrome, it's even more so because not only is the world bullying you, you're bullying yourself. And the biggest way to combat that is to find self-compassion, self-love. And that starts from within. You can do all these tricks that I'm telling you. You can write things down. You can get in community. You can identify what's going on. You can try and have more grace. But you have to find that love and self-worth deep, deep down within and hold on to that. Self-love starts from within. And that's not going to come from anywhere else. And for some people listening, I know that that's hard. Yeah. Because it's— for some people, they don't feel like they're worthy of that love. They haven't seen it. So they don't— they're like, well, what do you mean? You know, what does that look like? And that starts with just the thoughts that you have, what you tell yourself, right? Telling yourself that I'm loved, that I'm worthy, that I'm a good person, I'm a good mom, I'm a good friend, I'm a good wife. Saying those things, even when you don't believe they're true, does something in your brain. It does something in your heart that helps it be easier to say that next day. And the more that you say it, the more you say it in the mirror. And I know people are like, well, that's odd. It's awkward. It's supposed to be awkward. It's supposed to be. Yeah. If it's very easy, you don't have imposter syndrome and none of that was said. Said pertains to you, right? So it's going to be— it's going to be hard, you know? And it's going to feel awkward. But you got to look in the mirror. You got to look yourself in the eye. And you got to say, I love myself. I'm good enough. I have done the things. And even if I don't do another thing, my life has value. Even if I don't do anything else today, the fact that I am breathing is adding value to this world. Because one thing that I have learned, and I want people to know, is that there's that one person that you least expect that you mean the world to. Yeah. That you probably don't even talk to every day. You haven't talked to them in a year or 2 years or whatever. And you mean the world to them. And without you, the world wouldn't be the same for them. It just wouldn't. The thought of you is very important to someone that you least expect. It is not your husband. It is not your son or your daughter. They love you too, and they'd be devastated. But there is someone else who loves you just as much that needs just the essence of you walking around. And it has nothing to do with any of your work or the things that you've put out into this world. Your doing does not matter. Your being is what matters to them most.

Ooh, girl, you had me goosebumps all through this. I'm like trying not to cry because I'm thinking of people who have like— what you said, or like they've said, and I'm like, what did I do? And they're like, I can't explain it. And it is what you're saying. It had nothing to do with the doing. It's about the being. And I preach that all day long to my clients. Hearing someone else say that is like, oh, it's goosebump worthy. Like, it's such a good point to remember. I so appreciate you saying that because I think we all need to be reminded that, yeah, it's not the doing. We focus so much on the doing in the world. That's important, but not as important as being who we are. Like, just being. So, so powerful. It does feel weird. If you have— here's a little tip for anyone who's listening who's like, I cannot talk to myself like that. Put on Mary J. Blige's song "Good Gorgeous." Oh yes. And just stand in the mirror and dance and listen to her say it for you until you can use the words to say it for you. And you will feel— I love that song. It's the song that really helped me through a lot of life. But she has a line in there that's just like, before I put on makeup, before I even wash my face, brush my teeth, I'm looking in that mirror and I'm just saying, good morning, gorgeous. And I, I just love it. I just love it. Yeah. Oh, I like that. So try that. If saying the words, I love you, you are worthy, is weird to yourself, yeah, maybe music will help. Yes, I agree. Stamp of approval. Well, thank you so, so very much for coming on the show. Please tell us how we can connect and learn more about your mission on helping others to overcome, identify, and kind of just move through imposter syndrome.

Yeah. Okay. For all of you who haven't run off, who are still here with me, you can find all of my information. So we have 2 seasons of my show, The Real Deal with Brie Clark. You can find that on YouTube. It's exclusively there. And that's YouTube. If you do like a backslash Brie Clark TV, Brie with one E, that's where you can find me. And we have just people just like myself who are navigating imposter syndrome. And you would just never think or know that they're dealing with that. I mean, we have a guy on there who has a show on Disney+, Nat Geo. And he has dealt with that and still does in some way. So I would really have you all to go check it out. There's also my website. And that's, uh, brieclaartv.com, where you can find more about the episodes. There's some merchandise there because I'm really into the accessories, um, that proclaims you are the real deal, because I really believe that it's not just something that you say, it's something that you live out and you tell yourself. So I am the real deal all day long. So you can find all that on my website. And then Instagram is where I live most of my life. And you can find out a lot more there, a lot more about me and my husband and my son, and just, just some tips and some words of affirmation every once in a while on Instagram. And that's also Bri Clark TV with one E.

Love it. Thank you. Thank you again. We'll have all of that in the show notes. We'll talk about it in the intro too. Just so thankful for you today. Thank you for sharing this space with me.

That's a wrap, y'all. Thanks for tuning in to Crafted to Thrive, the podcast that helps entrepreneurs with chronic illness to thrive and build a holistic business and life. Check out our website at craftedittothrive.com for this episode's show notes and all the gifts and goodies. Connect with me on Instagram @thrivewithnikitawilliams for more tips and behind the scenes and more. Tag me to share what you loved about this episode, and I'll feature you on an upcoming episode. So until next time, remember, yes, you are crafted to thrive.