How Chronic Illness Made Me Better at Sales And Business | Justine Beauregard
In this episode of the Business with Chronic Illness podcast, host Nikita Williams interviews chronic‑illness entrepreneur and sales coach Justine Beauregard. The conversation explores how living with chronic illness can sharpen sales‑related skills such as deep listening, authentic curiosity, and fierce self‑advocacy, turning perceived limitations into competitive advantages. Justine shares a “never be outsold” mindset, a curiosity‑driven sales framework, and the importance of authenticity when selling. She discusses practical decisions around disclosing chronic illness to clients, prioritising environment (e.g., location, work‑pace) to match energy levels, and making incremental adjustments rather than waiting for ideal conditions. The episode also covers personal branding tactics—her podcast “People Over Profit,” website, social media, and LinkedIn presence—plus a belief‑shift from “it takes time” to “it takes skill, curiosity, and intention.” Finally, Justine recommends HoneyBook as an all‑in‑one automation hub for contracts, payments, and scheduling, offering a 50 % affiliate discount. The episode closes with a call‑to‑action for listeners to join Nikita’s coaching program and email list, reinforcing the message that chronic illness does not preclude building a profitable, sustainable business.
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Have you been told that successful selling means being always on, hustling harder, pushing through, trying all of the things, doing the cookie cutter funnels, sales funnels? And you know, a lot of that works for a lot of people, but you're thinking that sounds exhausting and impossible for the capacity and the life that I'm currently living. You're right. But what if I told you that struggling with traditional sales advice isn't a weakness? What if the very things that make those strategies feel wrong for you are actually pointing you toward a better way? In today's episode, we talk about how some of us hide or feel like we're not able to be who we truly are when it comes to showing up and selling in our business. And we've tried the proven methods and it's just not proven for us, it's not working for us, right? This conversation, you guys, to be honest, brought up so much for me long after we had the recording. So much so that I have a whole episode that I'm coming to share with you soon to debrief my thoughts about this episode. But our guests, Justine and I, talk about how the skills with chronic illness have been teaching all of us all along. The core aspects of what makes sales sell, right? And it's these things: deep listening, authentic curiosity, and fierce self-advocacy. And these are not obstacles to sales. These are the very things that make it work. Today I'm joined by Justine, host of the top 5% entrepreneurship podcast, People Over Profit, award-winning sales strategist since 2007. And writer for entrepreneur.com. She's helped countless entrepreneurs move from feast and famine to consistent income by teaching them how to sell in ways that feel authentic and sustainable to them. In this conversation, Justine shares why traditional sales advice fails people with chronic illness, her never be outsold mindset that changes everything, and the practical curiosity framework that turns your health challenges into business advantages. If you're ready to stop forcing yourself into sales strategies that don't fit and start leveraging the skills you already have, this episode will be a help for you. Now, I want to be clear, this is one of those episodes where it left me thinking. It left me thinking, and I can't wait to share with you all about that in our next episode on my debrief of this episode. But there's so many goodie nuggets in this episode that I want you to stay tuned for. Because you're going to learn how chronic illness can make you better at sales and business. Stay tuned. Welcome to Business with Chronic Illness, the globally ranked podcast for women living with chronic illness who want to start and grow a business online.
I'm your host, Nikita Williams, and I went from living a normal life to all of a sudden being in constant pain with no answers to being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses and trying to make a livable income. I faced the challenge of adapting traditional business advice to fit my unique circumstances with chronic illness, feeling frustrated and more burned out than I already was while managing my chronic illness, to becoming an award-winning coach with a flexible, sustainable online coaching business. I found the surprisingly simple steps to starting and growing a profitable business without compromising my health or my peace. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do the same. If you're ready to create a thriving business that aligns with your lifestyle and well-being, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for women with chronic illness and how we make a living. This is Business with Chronic Illness. I am really excited about this conversation. With Justine today. I'm like always looking forward to having conversations with people, but Justine has been in the world of coaching and sales and consulting for a long time and also living with chronic illness, and she's a sales strategist. And so I just hit it off with her when we connected. So please let us know who you are. Like, how would you describe yourself, Justine?
I'm Justine Beauregard, and as you said, I've been in the world of sales and small business since 2007, so it's been almost 20 years. And I have had my own business since 2014, officially LLC'd in 2015, so it's been a decade. And I say that, you know, I am a champion for underdogs. I've said that for many years because I see myself as one. And I also love selling in ways that are authentic to us, because if you look around Even just like the space that you're in now, everything in that space was bought and sold.
Yeah.
It's part of our culture. And so finding ways to appreciate the gifts that you've been given and chosen to really work on and perfect as an expert at whatever it is that you do and that you enjoy doing. I feel like you deserve to be paid well for that expertise.
Mm-hmm.
And that there are plenty of people who need what you sell. And so finding a way to do that feels authentic to who you are and your core values, and it doesn't cause you to step outside of your integrity or what you want to be doing, or make all these crazy sacrifices to, you know, bend over backwards and follow someone else's strategy, is really important. So I teach my clients who are experts and entrepreneurs how to attract their ideal buyers by default and how to close sales quickly so that they can get to the support piece and the fulfillment piece faster and really spend all of their time focused on helping those that they were put on this earth to help. And then also on the back end of that, optimizing each step of that process to be easier and more efficient and more productive and more enjoyable for them so that they're not just doing things the same way because that's how they've always done them, or because that's how they expected it should be to do them, but because that's how they love doing it and it's what works best for them and it's what takes the least amount of effort and sacrifice and all of those things. So That's really where my specialty lies is on the sales side, but with a holistic view of people and who we are and what we need.
Yeah, I mean, co-sign that. Like, yeah, I think we, we get so much messaging in the world when it comes to sales of how it's supposed to look like, feel like, be like. And often I feel like a lot of that noise is very bro marketing, like very male, masculine. I always think about like how as women in general, the way we buy things often isn't from that space. It is truly from value connection and like that compassionate empathy, like all of those things, right? Like I will buy a pair of shoes because my friend said they're amazing, right? Like I don't need a commercial that just is shoving down my throat that I should buy these shoes. I need someone that I can relate to. I need someone that I trust. And it feels very different than when I'm bombarded with some ads that Apple or somebody has said that I should buy something, right? Like, it's just, it's just a different vibe. And I think we both relate to that. But sales, when you're living with chronic illness, I feel like there's just a layer that we've added on to that, that I don't think— the common thing I hear from people who have chronic illness who are starting they're just starting is they cannot do it the way they've been told that they have to do it, right? Like the, you know, you've— what are some of the things, Justine? What are some of the things you've heard people come into your world and be like, I've been running my business like this and doing sales like this, and you're like, please don't, that's why it's not working. Like, no.
Yeah, well, first, it's very personal, right? Like when people say business is not personal, I'm like, That's a lie. It is. Thank you. Most personal. Especially when you sell services because you're not selling something that's detached from you. It is you. It is a part of who you are and it is a, it is your style. It is your personal brand. It is all these things rolled into it. And so just to go back to your point about women versus men or compassionate sales tactics versus bro marketing, it's what it really comes down to. And there have been multiple studies like Harvard, Stanford, multiple universities have studied this. Women sell on average more than men by 5 to 20%. And that's not because of gender, in my opinion. It is actually because of the gender norms. So women are predisposed to want to have deeper conversations. Men are more predisposed to get to the logical, factual, very like to the point, curt.
Yep.
End point. And so they don't want to spend as much time hearing about someone's background or learning about their needs and preferences because they see it as, I have a solution, you are in trouble, you need it, so buy it. And women are like, I have a solution and you are in trouble, but let's make sure that it fits you before you buy it. And that one extra step, it's really interesting. As a sales trainer of thousands and thousands of people over the years, I have noticed it probably takes 5 more minutes. Like, it's that simple to just gather a bit of understanding about that person to solidify that they are a fit, to qualify them truly on every level, and to make sure that it's sticky, right? Because we can sell. That's the problem with the style where it's very logical and matter-of-fact, you're selling them something on paper, and if it's not truly aligned, the likelihood that they'll stay around is very low. Versus someone who is emotionally charged when they make the decision and they have clear lines of sight between this is what I feel, what I believe, and what I need, and this is what your brand stands for and how it can help me specifically. They have much more of an attachment to that outcome. And so they want to stay with you, and in fact, they will fight to stay with you more than they will fight to leave, which is the opposite with the very logical sale. And so we do buy with emotions and back it up with logic. That's how the human brain works. And we do need to feel supported and cared about. And especially today, to your point, we're bombarded with messaging from big companies that are telling us buy now. And we're not sure who to choose. And so we do default to the recommendation of our friend or the review on Amazon quicker than we will default to an ad that tells us that this cheeseburger is the one for you. Like, we aren't sure and we're skeptics more so ever than before. So when it comes to the nuance of the chronic illness overlaid with that and how we have to think differently, it's with all of it, that's— it's sort of that part overlaid with how you sell, because you're not the only person in the equation, but also neither is your buyer. So when you're taking the time to care about that person who's buying, and you're taking the time to think about what they need and what would work best for them and what they care about and value, often you don't reflect that back on yourself. Like, you will tell your friend Oh, you can totally do this. You're amazing. You're beautiful. You're wonderful. You're smart. But then to your own self, it's very self-deprecating. It's, yeah, you're not good enough. You are not trying hard enough. You are a big old failure and all of these things. And so we need to turn back the care that we reflect to our buyer back on ourselves in how we sell to make the experience enjoyable for both sides.
Yeah.
I mean, it's one of my coaches says you cannot, sell what you hate. Like, you cannot do what you hate. Like, if you hate sales, you're not going to be good at sales. Like, like, well, here's—
here I will make a tweak to that statement and say you cannot sustain—
oh, there you go—
something that you hate. Because I'll use the example— this is a parallel— I have been on a health journey for about a year where my body has changed many times over the years, mostly due to having children and also having chronic illness.. But one of the reasons that my body has changed recently is being in perimenopause. My hormone levels are changing. All the things are happening, right? My metabolism is slower for some reason. I look at pizza and I gain 5 pounds. I don't know what's going on. And you would think that all the night sweats help me shed the weight, but you think, you would think they don't. They don't. They don't. So I've been on this health journey and I've struggled with it. And when I was talking to— I had all these people that were supporting me. I had a personal trainer and nutritionist and a mental health therapist and all of these people. And my therapist one day asked me, she said, Justine, why are you trying to lose the weight? And I was like, because I want to feel better in my body. And I want my jeans to fit, to be honest. And she was like, okay, but like, what's the deeper reason? And I was like, I don't think I have one. I'm not sure. And so we worked on it for a couple of weeks. We kept having sessions talking about it, like, let's try to get to the root of it. And then one day I just blurted out, because I hate myself like this. And she was like, that's it. And I was like, that's what? And she's like, the reason why it's not working, because you're coming at it from a place of resentment for your body. You're like, I hate my body. It's not doing what it's supposed to be doing, it's not treating me as well as I've treated it, and etc. Versus if you came at it from a place of, I love my body, I want to nourish it with really good food, I want it to last for as long as possible, I want to treat it well and, you know, fill it with all of the nutrients and all of the things and feel satiated and all of that. It totally changed my perspective. And I think a lot of times when we approach sales, we come at it from the same way where we think I hate that I'm not getting paid well. I hate that my business doesn't work for me, or my, you know, it's— I'm resentful of the fact that I've put in 20 years becoming an expert at this thing and nobody is valuing it. And you have this negativity that's just underlaid in every action you take. It's like, oh, just make it work, versus I love what I do so much, I'm so excited to bring it to more people. I see this person who needs it and I can't wait to talk to them about it. I can't wait to give them at least some clarity and potentially a solution. And like, no, and this is the part where you don't want to be as personally connected to the outcomes. You just want to show up and be helpful in terms of helping people make a decision that fits them. And when they say this isn't the right fit, you should probably be in agreement. It's like being in a relationship where one person's madly in love and the other one's kind of neutral. That's not a relationship you want to be in. You want both people to be like, you're it for me. Not like, well, you're okay for now until something better comes along. You want all of your people to be all in with you. And when they're not, there's obviously a disconnect and you either need to work through it or you need to accept that they're just not the right fit and move to the people who are the right fit.
I preach the same thing. I tell my clients all day long, it is so important to approach it how we're talking about it. Because if you don't, you can't— you cannot keep a business. I mean, you just won't. I think I've had clients come into my space as well, feel the same way. And because they've approached it, they've even built a business that they don't want that way, right? They've built a business that they hate and they're like, I can't keep doing this. And like, the reason why people— we hear a lot of this right now in the coaching space why a lot of people are burning down their businesses. It's not because that they aren't good at what they do. They just never really fell in love with it enough to do it from that place, right? You know I'm saying? So I feel like what you're saying is like, sir, it should serve somebody. Somebody listen. If you didn't listen to me, listen to Justine. Like she said it, let's, you know, connect with that.
However, when I started my podcast, I was in recovery from a surgery related to my chronic illness. Trying to connect with other businesses and searching for a way to keep growing my business without sacrificing my healing or well-being. Podcasting became my most aligned marketing tool. It let me show up consistently without showing up constantly. That's why I created the Start Your Podcast Planner, a digital guide to help you launch a purpose-driven podcast that feels like you. Whether you're starting from scratch or finally ready to get your voice and your story out there, or looking for a sustainable way to grow your business through marketing that converts, This planner gives you everything I wish I had. It's that step-by-step strategies that won't overwhelm you. Confidence in building prompts to help you fall in love with your voice and share it with the world. And tools and templates you can use again and again without overworrying or being concerned about the tech. Most importantly, it helps you turn your story into sales or income that actually feels aligned. If you're ready to grow your audience, attract clients, and share your message in a way that works with your capacity, this is where you start. Tap the link in the show notes to grab your Start Your Podcast Planner or visit thrivewithnikitawilliams.com/podcast-planner. You've waited long enough. Let's get your voice and your story out in the world and build a profitable, sustainable marketing system through podcasting.
To your point about the chronic illness piece around like we will get— and I'm— I'll raise my hand as completely vulnerable moment. I have totally been in that place where I am willing to give all of that compassion and self-love to my clients, to my process. And then at the same time, I'm on the other end beating myself up about not being good enough, not this, all of these things, right? And I think to your point, like, you have to turn that compassion on you. And when we were talking You know, you were telling me initially before the show, like how you kind of came out with your chronic illness after years being in business. And I was like, this is funny, like coming out with chronic illness, it sounds funny, but what are some of the fears and misconceptions that kept you silent about coming out about your chronic illness?
Yeah. Oh my gosh, there are so many. I mean, anything that we notice is different about ourselves. Yeah, there's fear behind that. Like, I am different from this person and therefore I'm going to be judged for that. Or there's going to be some sort of assumption based on certain things. Like when someone says that they have kids versus don't have kids, there are assumptions that are made. Like people without kids have more flexibility. And some of those assumptions are true and some of them are false, right? Like people without kids have more flexibility. They have more disposable income. They have more free time, or they have more whatever. Like, that's what you think, right?
Like, that's what—
that's your assumption, right? And I know some people who don't have kids who have none of those things.
Yeah, exactly.
And then I also know people who do have kids, like me, who have all of those things. Like, yeah. And so, you know, you think about it, as soon as I come out and say this thing, there's going to be assumptions made because there's also, with chronic illness, Although I don't think I've met anybody who doesn't have something that could be considered a chronic illness. Like anxiety is a chronic illness. There's a lot of things that are included in that bucket, so it's kind of broad. But when I think about it, I think, you know, my fears around the ones that I have in particular, because I have to get infusions every month and I have certain, what's the word for it? It's like certain limitations. Like there are certain days where I'm, very tired, or I have physical mobility kind of issues that come into play, or different things, or I get debilitating headaches. And so there's like these moments where I know, but no one else knows what goes on. And a lot of people don't know me and how I show up yet when they meet me. And so when they see, oh, she has multiple autoimmunes or chronic illnesses, The assumption is she's less reliable. She is not going to be there when I need her. You know, she's not going to be able to help me because I can't relate to her because I don't have those things. And so she's probably built her business in a soft way to accommodate all of the things that she's got to deal with where I really want to go hard and, you know, hit the ground running and I have no perceived limitations to what I can do. And those were some of the fears that kind of initially prevented me. It wasn't like I was wanting to not share it. It was more that I didn't find an opportunity where contextually it needed to be there. And so it was sort of like a lie by omission when people would say, you know, tell me about yourself. I wasn't going to lead with, hi, I have multiple autoimmunes, like, right? Yeah, it wasn't part of my brand. It wasn't anything that I felt like needed to come into the conversation. And then once I started realizing— there was a period of time where I was having a lot of flare-ups. I was between medications. I was going through a really tough season in my life. And I just remember very vividly thinking to myself, if I don't proactively say something, people are probably going to be concerned, like the people who know me. So I should probably say something and just warn them, like, this may be nothing, it may be something. You might notice that I'm offline at these times, or like, I'm going to have to go in for this procedure and I'm going to be out for 2 days. If you need something, you need to do this, like kind of giving instructions. And that's when I started to say, why don't I just get ahead of it so that when I have to do this, I don't have to have the conversation twice. First part being, hey, by the way, I know we've been working together for a year and I never told you all these things about me, and now I also have to tell you, paired with that, that these are things that you would have never expected but are coming up, versus just being open and being like, yeah, I've got some things and here they are, and if it ever becomes something that we need to talk about, then we'll talk about it. And that's kind of how I lead now, is just by Being open, I don't talk about it all the time still because again, it's not part of my core branding. It's not part of things that I think everybody needs to know. I talk about it very openly and especially in settings like this where I'm invited to share about my background and my story. And I do feel like it is a part of who I am.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it is. It's not a black and white situation when it comes to like when you unveil. It sounds so funny, but when you unveil, oh, I have a chronic illness, and I appreciate what you're saying about knowing when you want to share that. I'm curious to know that when you did start telling people, what was their response and were you surprised by it?
I was very surprised by it. A lot of people mirrored what I told them. In themselves. So when I would say I have a chronic illness, and they would be like, well, I have fill in the blank. So it was a way to relate, right? So when you say something, usually people who care about you or that are in your circle of trust will try to find a way to relate to you. So when someone loses a friend or something like that, and they're like, you know, my friend just passed away, it's like, oh yeah, I my grandpa last year. You know, like, we're trying— we're not saying that to overshadow the thing that you just shared. We're saying that as a way to try to relate to you and show you I kind of get it. I care about you. I've felt similar ways before, so you can trust me to open up to me and to share that. So I was really surprised when I said I have chronic illness, and a lot of people who I never thought would have also had chronic illnesses were like, same. And I was like, wow, wow, okay, that's interesting. Or when I came out again with neurodivergence and said I have ADHD, and then people were like, oh my gosh, I have social anxiety, I also have ADHD, I have dyslexia, I have like all these things would come out. And it was again like, I think their way of trying to show it's okay I kind of understand. I don't have the same things that you have or the same experiences that you have, but I can relate to you. And it made a lot of my connections stronger with a lot of people.
I mean, yeah, that's a— that's to your point, because we started off with, you know, we look at things that make us different, and those fears makes us like stop from, you know, sharing. But the things that make us different often are the things that make us connect with one another, right? So true. So it is like, that's a fear. So relatable. We so get it. We've all been there. But I also just can't help but think like, yeah, we all have some of the same fears. We are all over here in the background being like, I don't want to tell nobody about this. Like, they don't need to know. And then one day you say, and then you find yourself, oh my gosh, I'm telling somebody else about this. You're like, oh my goodness. The differences that we are always, like, defined by are the things that actually can bring us together is what I just heard just in that story.
Yeah. And there were a lot of people who also were like, do you need anything? I wish I knew. You know, like, there was a lot of outcry of support with it where they were like, oh my gosh, I would have never known that about you. Like, are you okay? What can I do? And You know, one person, I remember this one client that I had was like, well then why did you— were in the hospital when you took that, like when you responded to my email, why did you respond to me? Like you didn't need to do that. And I was like, because here's the thing, I also have my routines and things that I like to do. And when I'm in a hospital bed or getting hours-long infusions and all going through all of this stuff, I don't want to just be bored, right? And I want that sense of normalcy in my I love what I do. I didn't take maternity leaves with either of my kids, and it wasn't because I felt crippled by the demands on my time or anything like that. It was because— and I tell people this all the time— I have a client right now who's like 37 weeks pregnant, and she's like, I'm gonna want to take this 16-week maternity leave. And I was like, guaranteed you will not. And she was like, what? I'm like, we are so similar. You are going to be bored day 2. Your baby is going to sleep like the majority of the time, and you're gonna be looking down and going, what am I doing? I can only watch so much TV and read so many books and play so many sudokus. Like, you're gonna want your thing back, and you're gonna want purpose, and you're gonna want to show up for other people. And how that looks might be different. I didn't want to get on camera right away, right? I didn't want to do full makeup when I hadn't showered in 3 days and had throw up on me perpetually for months at a time. But I did want to show up in the way that felt good to me. And so it was a new normal. But at work was like my joy. It was that foundation that I didn't want to give up. And I didn't feel like I needed to be guilted into a maternity leave that I didn't want. And the same thing with getting infusions or being in the hospital for procedures. Like, I just go and I work and Some of the time I even sell from the bed to the nurses or the staff or people there because I just love what I do. I can't help myself.
Yeah, it is interesting too. That connects to this other piece of making sure you're selling the right thing, right? Like making sure you are in alignment with the thing that you care about. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, because if I'm in bed and I hate my job, I ain't talking about the job. I ain't talking about it. I don't want to be dealing with that, right? So I think, do you find that because you enjoy what you do so much, and even though you're going through whatever challenge that you're going through, it doesn't feel as hard or like a force, I got to push through it kind of mentality because you enjoy it?
100%. If you feel— and I say that, I say this in every aspect of your life, not just your offer or selling or business. In general. If there's any part of you that longs for a vacation day from your friendships, from your partnership, from your rela— like anything you have going on, from your life in general, from the gym, like anything, you're doing it wrong for you, right? You should never need a vacation. You should look forward to it. You should enjoy it while you have it. But if you're so like, oh, I can't wait to get through this week because I just need a break, something's not working. That's a red flag, right? Like, if you're saying to yourself, I can't wait to go on this girls trip because I can't wait to get away from my partner, there's a problem in your partnership. You feeling that way is a signal something's not a fit here, something's not working. And usually, again, this goes back to just not spending enough time with ourselves these days and not really knowing who we are or what we want, and taking in a lot of feedback from people who are not qualified to give it to us. Like, we should not be taking feedback from people who have not achieved what we want to achieve, or who have not, you know, gone ahead of us, or have an opinion that's relevant to what we're experiencing. Like, it's great to gather feedback from people that you know, like, and trust, but at what point do you actually listen to you and your own intuition and say something's right or something's wrong. And so anytime I feel that sense of, oh, I'm not looking forward to this thing, it's not just a statement. It's not like I'm not looking forward to that. It's a question. Why am I not looking forward to that? What about that am I not looking forward to? Because we need to get to the root of that thing. And there's so many people who create businesses because it's something in their zone of excellence instead, like something that they're known for and they're good at, but they don't wake up excited to do it. And there's a book that is called The Secret Door to Success by a woman who was an entrepreneur back in the 1920s in the US, who— her name was Florence Scovel Shinn. And she says the secret door to success is to be So obsessed with and interested in the thing you're doing that other people naturally find themselves interested and obsessed with the thing that you're doing. And I think that's the key to it all. When you love it and you can't help but do it and you eat, sleep, and breathe it and it comes naturally to you and it's joyful for you, people wonder. It's like the When Harry Met Sally, I'll have what she's having.
Mm-hmm.
Look over and go, What's up with that person versus like someone who's just like, oh, I got to do another Instagram post today and they just like show up and they go through the motions, but they're not like, I get to go on Instagram today and talk about this thing that's so exciting and I can't wait to share it. And it's energetically so different. Yeah. And believe it or not, like be woo or not woo, having that energy behind something.
Yes. Is everything.
So much your differentiator. Yeah, it is true.
It is true. That's interesting. Whole, whole different lane of where we— I was thinking, but like, it is true. I think in general there are things that in our buckets that we do need. We're a store. We need restoration. We need all these things. However, I think to your point about like, if you're feeling like you need to do something because you're exhausted by the environment that you're in, then something's not right, right? Like, I think that's what you're saying. Like, of course we want to take vacations. Nothing wrong with wanting to take vacations, but if you're wanting to take a vacation because you are emotionally, mentally, in every way drained from doing that thing, maybe you weren't doing that thing right. Like, maybe you weren't in that really— like, maybe you aren't your authentically you. To the way you need to be in order for it to be actually not feeling like you can't wait to get away from it, right?
Yeah, I will say there's no maybe in that. No, like, yeah, that is the truth of it, right? Like, it— and there's another podcast, The Smart List Podcast, that I love listening to, and in one of the episodes, Will Arnett says the minute you try to be authentic is the minute failed to be authentic because you can't try to be who you are. You just are that person. And so the minute you are trying to be like, I was just trying to be authentic.
Mm-hmm.
Well, if you were trying to do it, then something is being manufactured there. I'm just trying to make my business work. You shouldn't have to try to make it work, right? Like in that respect, you show up and you do it and it clicks. And when something's not working, you're like, why isn't it working? You're questioning it, you're evaluating it, you're looking for patterns, you're iterating, you're testing other things. And that whole process of building a business, a lot of people start businesses who probably shouldn't or aren't ready to because they come at it thinking, this is something other people told me I should do, or I saw other people building businesses similarly and I thought, yeah, why not give it a shot? Versus I'm unemployable. Like, that's how I feel about my— I am unemployable and I am so good at sales. Nobody is better than me. And it's not coming from a place of ego. It's coming from a place of certainty and practice and expertise and coaching thousands of people and hundreds of clients and doubling people's revenue over and over. It's proof.
Mm-hmm.
It's patterns. It's persistence. It's all the P's. I love alliteration, so I'm here for it. But it is literally all of those things. It's passion. Like I show up in my business every day going, I love this so much. I want to invest my free time listening to podcasts and learning and growing. I want to read books. I want to talk to other people. I want to spend time researching online. I want to spend time with my clients. I want to be the best. And then I want to get better the next day. And I also understand the more that I learn and the more that I do, the less that I know and the more curious I become because I find all these gaps And instead of feeling plagued by them, I think, how exciting that this is just the beginning, and I have so much more to learn and do, and so much more to see and grow into. And that to me doesn't feel like a big heavy load to bear. It feels like an exciting journey I get to take. And the more excited you are by the idea that you're only getting started— like, I'm 10 years in. Some people A lot of people don't even make it this far.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I can't wait to see what the next 40 years bring me. And my husband's like, yeah, a lot of people are not like you. They want to retire yesterday and they don't want to work. And I'm like, I will work forever in some capacity, volunteering, helping, doing the work. Like, I just love it. You cannot stop me from working. It's my favorite.
Yeah, and you know, it's powerful to know that about yourself, like to know what is your thing, why you enjoy your thing, why it's your thing, right? And not be moved to believe that it's not your thing. Like, yeah, like, you know, I think we can sometimes be like, wait, is that really— like, we can allow other voices to crowd out our own. And we do that too. We do that too frequently. Like, we, we allow too many voices to start questioning what we innately know. I know I'm totally guilty of that myself, to be like, no, I don't just love podcasting. I shouldn't make podcasting a business. Like, that's not a real thing. Like, Nikita, it's a thing. Like, like, you know, like, it's not— it's just one of those things. So I love how passionate and how certain you are, and I love, like, how you said your confidence and it's not ego, it's certainty. And that is a powerful shift of thought.
And of course I have ego. I just wanna like put that out there. Everybody does. Like, I'm not sitting here going like, there's no ego in my work. There's lots of ego in my work. There's lots of ego in everything that we do, especially the things that we're good at and we know we're good at. Mm-hmm. Because that's what helps us persevere and that's what gives us that drive. It's a lot of our actions are driven by our ego and wanting more and demanding that of ourselves and pushing through. And one of my number— it's probably my number one rule of selling. I teach it to all of my clients and everybody who will listen to me. So everybody here listening is never be outsold. And I'm not just talking about in a sales conversation, I'm talking about in life. Like when you are set on something and you're certain this is for me, this is the path, this is what I do. Don't let other people unsell you. The minute you are outsold, because people are gonna sell you their ideas all day long because it's easy to do it and it's fun to do it, right? So we are competitive by nature. We wanna get our thoughts and ideas out there. We wanna win. That's just part of the drive of being a human. And so when people are outselling you, again, That is a red flag. How did I get to the point where they are more sold than I am? So when you're selling your offer, you definitely don't wanna be outsold because any sort of objection or hesitation is gonna cause that sale to die because you're gonna easily be outsold, which looks like immediately jumping to a discount when people object on price or someone saying it's just not the right time and you going, yes, I totally understand. Just let me know when is the right time. That sale is dead. They're not coming back to you. You did not try to work with them. Like, you were outsold, and that's okay. You just need to know when that's happening. So when someone says, like, to you or to me, your chronic illness is going to hold you back—
oh my God, I immediately— say that and I viscerally am like, yes.
You're like, immediately, like— and I tell my clients this all the time, I'm like, tell me anything you believe, because I am a salesperson. I've gotten really good at not being outsold. Like, you can't unsell me on my core beliefs, and you can't outsell me on things that I believe about myself or that I want. And so the minute I'm sold on something, you cannot flip me. Like, it does not matter what it is. That's why it's very challenging for my husband to be married to me, because once I'm sold on pizza for dinner, that's what we're having. Like, there is no unselling me. And I think more people need to get to that place of fierce belief, certainty, and putting a line in the sand and saying, I can't be outsold on this thing. When someone says I can't do it because of my chronic illness, I go, I believe I can, watch me. When they say this isn't the right offer for me, I'm like, I don't believe that, tell me why you think so. You know, like I'm getting curious and I'm pushing back, not because I'm trying to coerce someone, but because I can't be outsold.
Yeah, it's— it kind of goes to the point that we were kind of thinking about too, is like when you are at the top of— I, I feel like when you're living with chronic illness, what appears on the outside can appear— it's invisible. Most chronic illnesses are invisible. I know we talk about this in a lot of different ways. When it comes to chronic illness, chronic pain, it's invisible. You can't see it. But to your point of earlier in the, in your story of being like, yeah, I'm living with this. Other people are living with these things and still functioning, highly functioning, and not— it doesn't appear that you're struggling. It doesn't appear that you're doing all fancy, you know, you're like on the clouds apparently, but you're still dealing with what you're dealing with. And I think And to this part of the conversation about not being unsold by what you believe you're capable of is an important part of the conversation. How does someone who does struggle with self-belief, who does struggle with confidence, and also because maybe they were— didn't always have chronic illness and they just all of a sudden one day woke up and was like, okay, this new stuff is going on and has shaken their foundation. How would you tell them to like get back to that place of being not able— just that confidence, that certainty?
Well, I think it's more— and for context, I have had chronic illnesses since before I had a business and for many years of my life, more than half of my life. And so I've never had my business without a chronic illness, just as I've never had my business without being a parent because I was pregnant with my first baby when I first launched my business. And so I tell people it's hard because in those scenarios, I don't necessarily know that I'm the most equipped to give advice to someone who just found out yesterday that they have this really debilitating condition because I've had 20 years plus to get used to everything I've been going through.
Right.
And integrate practices and coping mechanisms and systems into my life to make it so that I can thrive with my chronic illnesses. And I think that there's part of it that it, it does just take time.
Yes.
To build those things. And I— and my favorite definition of happiness is it's the delta between expectations and reality. And so when you expect it to be really hard and it's not as hard as you thought, you're pretty happy, right? But when you expect it to be like it always was, or to come easy, or to not have any hiccups or issues, then your reality is different and it's harder than you thought it would be, and everything falls apart and you feel like a failure every day, and you had no idea that this was how it was going to be and this is how hard it was going to feel, then your happiness dramatically decreases. So I think the first step is to really understand and set those expectations, set that bar low, right? Because you don't know. And so it's like when you go to a restaurant and they say it'll be 15 minutes and you wait an hour for your table, you're pissed, right? You're like, why did you tell me 15 minutes? All you had to do was say an hour and then I would have been fine. Yeah, but if they tell you it's an hour and you get in 15 minutes, you're like, "This is the best restaurant I've been to all year." Like, it's now your favorite place. You can't wait to go back. And that's how you have to treat it, I think, is set the bar low and be like, "You know what? I have no idea what I'm about to expect, so it might be really hard. It might be really easy. I don't know. So I'm just going to assume that I'm going to have to make some significant changes to my lifestyle. I'm going to assume I'm going to need more time." I'm going to assume this, that, and the other. And if you can talk to people who've had similar experiences and say, hey, I just got diagnosed with the same thing you got diagnosed with, what happened for you? And it might— again, might not be the same. They might come at you and say it was super easy and great, but you have to take those experiences and decide for yourself, like, how do I want to prepare myself? So that I can give myself a better reality than what I expect so that I can keep my happiness at the level that feels right for me. And then the second part of that is just taking the time to understand as you move through it, these are the things that I'm noticing are not working. Just like in a business, these things are not working. These things are harder. These things are easier. Okay, how do I adjust and create systems that support me? And after a certain amount of time, you'll notice the patterns and you'll be able to make adjustments. Investments in a more permanent way. And you can support yourself in the ways that you need. But through it all, I mean, giving yourself grace and taking the time that you need. And everybody is different and not expecting that because Jenny over here took 1 month to get all her stuff in order and she's just living her dream. And then, you know, Casey over here had to spend 17 months going through all the mud and the muck and having a terrible time, that either one of those is your guaranteed outcome. You don't know. So you just have to kind of go with the flow and see how it is for you.
Yeah, I think you hit that on the nail. I mean, there isn't a wrong or right way. I feel to your point about being authentic, either you are you or you are not. And I think in the journey of chronic illness and if you happen to be in a business or starting a business, You just have to give yourself permission to experience whatever it is you have to go through to get to the other side, ultimately, because it's not— and there is— I've talked to hundreds of women who have similar chronic illnesses, the same label of a chronic illness, and not a one of them, not a one of them are exactly the same. Like, you might have like little flips of things that we can— oh yeah, experienced a little bit of that, but no one is identical in this. When I was doing work to get my, my certification as an aroma psychologist, something that impressed on my brain so much is that even identical twins are not identical. Like, like in every sense of the way, they are still absolutely different, even though they look on the outside exactly the same. And even with that, they're not exactly the same. And I think we have that expectation, right, that running a business, to your point, is— and living with chronic illness is somehow one-size-fits-all. I don't know who brought this into our world and our thinking that, well, if such-and-so is doing a business this way, this is exactly how my business is going to work, and this is exactly how my life is going to work. And it's like, it can't be. It can't be. It doesn't work like that.
Yeah.
In your journey as a sales strategist, what would you tell to someone who is working in their business, they have chronic illness, they've— maybe they have found their flow, they have found like their ebbs and flows, they found some of the systems that work, and yet they feel like they're not where everyone else says they should be. And they think, and a lot of people feel this way, oh, it's just because I'm limited, it's because I'm limited because of my chronic illness, it's I'm not where I want to be because I have this invisible, visible disability, pain. What would you say to that person?
Well, I wouldn't say anything. I would ask, right? Like, why do you feel that way? What proof do you have?
Yeah.
You know, where— show me the receipts. Give me the examples instead of making assumptions. Again, this kind of goes to what, you know, they're being outsold by someone else's idea of, first of all, what their business should look like. So that's part one, is like, why did you expect your business to look like that? What made you believe that it was going to be where you're explaining that it needed to be and is not, right? And in what ways is it not there, and why do you think that is? And you get to the root of pretty quickly when you ask questions, just like you get to the root of what someone wants to buy when you ask questions on a sales call. Like, you're— you need to be more curious and less statement-driven in all of your life. When you said earlier there's no right or wrong—
wait, Justine, wait, let's go back to that. Say that again. Say that last part again. You need to be more what? Curious and less statement-driven is what you said.
Less statement-driven. Yeah, less driven by speaking and more driven by asking. Your goal is to always listen, to understand, not just to others but to yourself. Understand your body and why it's not functioning in the way that you think it should be. And being an advocate, that's a big part of chronic illness. I had to advocate for myself in so many different ways. I don't like these meds make me feel. Well, on paper they shouldn't be making you feel that way. And I said, well, they do, so I will not be taking them any longer. And there were periods where I was not under any treatment and my body was literally breaking down, and it was because I refused to take certain medications that I knew were not going to make me feel good because they hadn't made me feel good and nobody was giving me an alternative. And I said, well, this is better than the alternative. I'm not going to put things in my body that I don't agree are the right things for me. And so back to your point about right and wrong, I think there actually is a right way and a wrong way, and it's not a mass application. It's a right way and a wrong way for each of us. And so we are, per Seth Godin's words in the book Lynchpin, We have been manipulated and brainwashed and coerced into believing a lot of things simply because of how our society is set up and because of how everyone is trying to sell you on their methodology and their belief system and their stuff, right? And so we see a traditional business is run in XYZ way and we think we need to fit that mold. We're told this is the right way to build a business. What we don't do is get curious, ask ourselves, in what ways does that fit me and in what ways does it not? And here's the reason why we don't ask ourselves those questions: because we're not trained to ask ourselves those questions, and we don't have a lot of the skills we need to be able to answer those questions. And so when we ask ourselves, what about this fits me? And we're like, well, I know what doesn't fit me, but I'm not quite sure what will, so I guess my default will be the thing that I've been given, instead of how can I find those answers? And I call that the web of curiosity. You ask one question and then it becomes 3 questions, and those 3 become 30 questions, and you keep going down this web of curiosity until you get to your answer. And it takes time and it takes skill. But a lot of people live in their head and they theorize about what could work, and they have lots of great ideas for what they want to do. Very few of them execute on those ideas or those theories because they're waiting for clarity. Which is actually the opposite of what you need to be doing. Clarity comes from action and execution. You do not get clear on whether or not your sales message is going to land until you share it with your ideal buyer and they say yes or no. You do not get clear as to whether this thing you've set up in your business to support your chronic illness is the best thing for you at this moment until you implement it and go, Yeah, that did work, but I didn't like this part of it, or that worked 100% exactly the way I anticipated, or that didn't work at all and I need to scrap that and find a new idea. But instead we spend time in our minds trying to get clear and perfect and build these things that are really just thoughts and ideas. They're not substantiated or validated by actual proof. And a lot of us are missing the proof.
Yeah, that's the thing. I love that you said that because I think the biggest thing is like we want certainty without action. Yeah, that sounds crazy. Like when you actually say that out loud, you're like, wait a second, like you want to know that something 100% is a thing, but you're not willing to take the action to find out. Well, it doesn't even matter. It doesn't even matter if you don't do the action. It is such a powerful thing to be able— and it is a skill, I think, Justine. I think it's a huge skill, as you mentioned, to be able to ask the question, not be afraid to ask the questions, not to doubt your doubts. Like, if you have doubts, then figure them out. Like, do the research.
Those are questions.
Lean in, figure it out. And I think the world, to your point and to that point itself, we have been bombarded not to think. We have been trained not to think. We have been trained not to do the action behind what comes with thinking, right? Like, you can think all day long, but until you, like, go about doing the actions to disprove or approve, you cannot make a movement. You cannot make a decision. If you do, you're making it on default versus on actual information that you have seen the proof of. And I think to your point, that's a huge thing, and that's That's definitely true with chronic illness. If anything, I've learned with chronic illness, it's what taught me how to run a business. It still is the thing that teaches me how to run a business because even when they say you can't do this, says who? Like, says who? I'm always curious. And I think to your point, learning how to advocate for yourself, learning how to believe what your body is telling you. Learning how to lean into that. We can take so much lessons just from the fact of living with chronic illness that makes us better entrepreneurs.
Yeah, I can give you a dozen examples right now of why chronic illness has helped me so much. First of all, the advocacy piece for sure, advocating for what I need and what I want and why, and getting curious about listening and what is coming up and why that is. Like, why do I have a headache today? Is it because I haven't drank enough water, or is it because I'm about to have a chronic migraine? Why am, you know, why am I tired today? Is it because I need certain vegetables or nutrients or fruits or like something to build me up, or I need more vitamin D and I need to get outside in the sunshine? Is it because I just had an infusion? Is it because of this? And sometimes it's even more than like, sometimes the why doesn't matter as much as, or if at all, but like sometimes the why doesn't matter as much as the what. Like, what am I going to do about it? I feel tired right now.
Okay.
What are you gonna do about it? Like, are you going to rest your body and take a nap? Are you gonna push through and sleep better later? Do you plan on taking some sort of supplement before bed to try to get a more restful night's sleep? Were you up late last night and maybe Tonight you're going to try something different. Like, what's the action step that you're going to take based on the knowledge that you have? And I live by the mantra, of course. So if I'm like, of course I'm having a headache because I only had 1 cup of water and it's 3:00 PM, okay, then I drink more water. But if I'm like, I have a headache, but I've been drinking water all day and I've had a lot of water-based food and I do feel like It's probably something else going on. And then I'm looking at my calendar and I'm like, when did I have my infusion? Or what, you know, changed about my routine this week? Or, you know, what are the things that I would typically notice? And I start to get curious about it and come up with some solutions because just like in any scenario, you don't just want to show up to your life, show up to your business with a problem. You want to show up with ideas on how to improve it or make it better or fix it. You don't want to be like, okay, I have a headache today. And then that's the end of it. And you just think, so today is going to be horrible and everything is going to be hard and I'm going to just suffer all day. That's not the way that you want to move forward. You want to go, I have a headache today. What am I willing to do about it? What have I not tried? What could I try? What's worked before? And then how do I get a little bit closer to a solution? And sometimes that's taking Excedrin right away, and sometimes that's drinking more water and waiting it out a little bit, and sometimes It's recognizing like, I'm running on low sleep and my body is just tired right now, or I'm on my menstrual cycle.
I need to go to bed.
I need to just go take a nap. You know, like you'll feel it. And I think the more you practice this, because it is a practice and that's how we build skills, is to really center in on listening to what you need in every capacity, across every area of your life at all points in time. And it becomes a habit. The longer you do it, it becomes your default. Like, I don't sit around and listen to my body every second of the day. I just know it because I am so used to doing it. And so a lot of my doctors, which I have so many specialists because I have so many different things, I'll go to them and I'm like, here's what's happening, here's what I've noticed, here's what's changed, here's what I think needs to happen. What are your thoughts? And every time my doctors are like, you are so aware of your body and what is going on. Like, I trust you to bring me things and to ask me and push back on me because you're so in tune with your body and your needs and all of those things. Like, I wish everybody would do that more.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of people want to help us, and they want to support us. But when you go to the doctor and you're just like, "Doctor, I have a headache every day. You need to help me," right? Because the idea behind that too, it's really helpful to displace responsibility for our own selves to feel better. Like, it's not my job. I'm not a doctor. It's not my job to diagnose my headaches. So I don't need to think about it. I just need to go and say, fix me. But what the doctor is thinking is, I can't help you without more information. If you just walk into a doctor's office and you say, I'm having chest pain, and they're like, get out the V-fib paddles, we got to get this person in this procedure, you would be like, this doctor is a hack. I can't go to this doctor. Who would do that? A doctor says, tell me more. What are your symptoms? They're inquiring so that they can get to the root of it to figure out, is it heartburn? Is it a panic attack? Is it a heart attack? Is it a cardiac event? Like, and to what extent are those things happening? And what do you need from there? And we need to start treating ourselves like that in every respect, business and life.
Yeah, I mean, that's such a good example, especially with the doctor, right? Because even they have information that's outdated, but you're the one living in your body. Like, most medical information out there is about a middle-aged white man. Like, that's the research. Like, it's not based on women, and it's definitely not based on women of color. So, like, there's some— you have to be the person that knows you best. And to your point, that is a skill. That is something you have to get comfortable with and bringing that to the table. That's how you become an advocate. That's how you become your best advocate. And I believe you're also saying that's how you become a good salesperson is by knowing yourself and knowing the people you are wanting to serve.
100%. And that what you said there with comfort is the key because anything that's unfamiliar is going to be uncomfortable. It's out of our realm of expertise or normalcy or understanding. And so there's a gap.
Yeah.
And anytime that we feel uncomfortable, I don't know why I have a headache. And just going back to this example, it's like, of course you don't know. It's not a problem that you don't know. Now it's time to get curious so that you can help and support yourself and you can get clear on some things that you're feeling, you know. And the same thing happens with even writing messaging and like the use of AI. I talk about this all the time. AI is not meant— you don't type in, write some great social posts for me as a sales coach. It's gonna give you garbage because it doesn't know anything about you, right? The way to use AI is to say, here's a post I wrote as a sales expert. Tell me the things that you notice are different about this compared to things you might find in a Google search. Extract the uniqueness from this as how it pertains to my brand and apply it to my podcast episode. Or tell me the 3 things that stand out most to you about this and why. And you start using it for prompting curiosity and supporting you to be better at your job so you can iterate faster and better. It's not meant, you know, I heard a really interesting interesting podcast episode about education, and they were talking about should we give students AI to support them in their education, because the way things are moving, they have access to these tools and they're gonna use it whether we approve of it or not. And the woman said so brilliantly, she said, absolutely, it's like a calculator. You can't take tools away that have already been created and are available and are going to be used the minute that they're out of environment, right? Like, as soon as they go into a job, they're going to use ChatGPT or any other AI tools to go write content. So don't inhibit them from doing that. But what we should do is have them write the essays with AI and then come into school and use their human brain to dissect those articles, to do what we're asking— what I was saying we should ask ChatGPT or any other AI tools to do, which is evaluate it. Why is this good? Why is this not yet done? What about this stands out to me? What about this feels unique and interesting? What about this doesn't feel complete? And using and training ourselves to be better problem solvers and to develop common sense and the ability to think critically, skills that humans are so good at, like things that we want to train the next generation to be able to do instead of relying on AI to do for them. We need to use the tools just like we need to use medications to help us in some way, shape, or form with chronic illnesses that pop up. But instead of just saying Oh, I always take this medication, or like, I'm just gonna be on this medication for life. You take the medication to help you manage your symptoms while you also, if you're not a big fan of it, or you're noticing like this medication makes me take these other 3 medications, which has happened to me several times. Yeah. You start to ask yourself like, what would it take to get off this medication? Could I adjust my nutrition and have one less medication? Could I change something about my lifestyle that would make this easier for me to navigate? Could I have a procedure that would help me? And what's available to me? What have other people done? And you do research. And that is, again, to your point, a form of advocacy. You're showing up and you're asking the questions and you're thinking critically and finding solutions for you. So it all kind of comes full circle back to when something doesn't feel quite right, when something's off, when you feel like it's just not working or you can't wait to escape, or there's resentment building. Those are all clear signs that it's not the right solution for you. That doesn't mean it's not the right solution for someone else, but who cares if it is? The minute you recognize it's not right for me, that's when you need to step in and say, why not? Yeah, you don't necessarily need to know what might work better yet. You just need to understand What about that isn't working? So I can start to look and get curious about what's available to me as a solution and start to just check things off the list until I get to one that feels better.
Yeah.
All of that is like good stuff for life and like business. I mean, I'm a huge believer. I say it all the time, like business is personal, like we said at the top of this conversation, and on top of that, the two lanes of, I feel like, personal development and growth. I feel like in entrepreneurship, not everyone can be an entrepreneur. Trust me, I know this. But if you do choose to be an entrepreneur and you feel like that's who you are and that's what you do, the growth you experience in that space comes from all of these steps of being curious and, and not judging yourself for being curious, not being, not beating yourself up for trying something and it didn't work exactly how you thought. I mean, if I did that to myself when it comes to like my chronic illness stuff, I don't know if I would still be here, right? I think it's an important piece to be like, you know, you're not always going to get it right. One of the things that I— you're saying there's a lot of change. I think we're all kind of aversive to change, but even with this conversation of all the little things you can do, just start with just being curious. Like, if that's the one thing you can figure out, it's like, get out of being just taking things for face value. Be curious. I have phrasing that I always love asking people, like, what they would— like, how they can reframe statements into questions. What is a favorite question that you think will help someone, like, get out of the taking things for face value and being— and, like, stopping their brain from being dead-end thought processes to more open?
Well, I think it's as simple as we talk, just adding a why in front of the statement. Instead of saying, I have a headache, why do I have a headache? Instead of saying, my lead gen system isn't working, why isn't my lead gen system working? Or what about it isn't working. But more important than the reframe, because I think that part's actually pretty easy. I think most people know how to shift a statement into a question. I think where most people struggle is remembering to do it.
Yes.
We go through the day, all day, every day, making statements to ourselves internally. Like, I think there's some research about how it's like 9,000 statements a day that we make to ourselves. So our our brain is wired to make statements, not ask questions. And so to teach yourself— I, as someone with ADHD who's terrible at developing new routines by default, like I have to train myself to do anything new and go out of my comfort zone in any way. And especially because I found coping mechanisms for chronic illness and I have a busy business and I have kids and all the things. I have had to create redundancies in order to get it to work. And so more than what's the reframe, for me it's how am I going— what is one thing, actually is a better phrasing, what is one thing I can do to remind myself to be curious every day? And then you test that thing for a week and you see if you actually do it. So for me, one example, if anyone wants to borrow this, who's struggling with the curiosity. I love an end of day wrap up or a first day wrap up. So like if you are at the top of your day, I love habit stacking. So if you're like, I have coffee every single morning, I don't get started to my day without coffee. Okay, great. So when you're having your morning coffee, ask yourself, what's one way I can be more curious today? Or what's one thing that didn't work for me yesterday? What's one thing I'm looking forward to changing today? Or something and tie a question to that habit. Or for me, all of this really started with setting an alarm in my phone for— because I have a pretty consistent bedtime routine. So I would set an alarm for my phone 5 minutes before bed and I would brush my teeth. And while I was brushing my teeth, which I would normally do whenever, like now I'm like, I'm doing it 5 minutes before bed every single night. And that allowed me— that alarm going off was like, brush your teeth, ask yourself what happened today and what could I change for tomorrow? And that was as simple as that. And then I would have a little Post-it on my computer screen that I would put up at the end of the day. That was my little routine. I kept it near my desk. I would put it up and it would say like, what's one way you can be curious today? And I would just like my screensaver on my computer, as crazy as this sounds, would be How can you be more curious today? There were multiple visual audio reminders that were going on in my life that were like, okay, how can I be more curious? I even created a little system where I went to the dollar store and I got all these little stickers of different colors. And when I was curious about something that was health related, I would give myself a blue one. And if I was curious about something that was work related, I would give myself a gold one.
Mm-hmm.
And I would allow myself to just build these little fun gamified ways. And you just do it until it works. You try a bunch of different things. Again, you need to be committed to, I want to be more curious. I know that's going to help me in my life and business. Until you decide that, if you're just listening to this and going, Nikita and Justine are wild, like they're just, they are like cracking the whip on me and I refuse, like I don't want to be a part, you're not going to be curious, right? Like it's not something that you want to do, but The minute you're like, these ladies make a lot of sense. I probably need to adjust some things. Okay. What am I willing to try? And again, like kudos to you just for asking the question. Yeah. Because you're starting the whole process by being curious. And I tell people all the time, I have become such a great human being because I'm so good at sales. Because as a salesperson, I have to think about the other person. Person before I think about myself in the way that I teach sales. As a salesperson, I have to live in curiosity. As a salesperson, I have to check for alignment. As a salesperson, I have to spend quality time with people. And so a lot of the things that I do as a salesperson make me a better partner. They make me a better mother. They make me a better friend because the way that I sell is all reflective of my core values and how I wanna show up in the world. Extension of me. And so when I'm perfecting these skills, I'm thinking I'm perfecting my ability to be a great support person for somebody in need. Like, when I hear— I had someone in my life recently who lost a loved one, and my typical response, the one that we've been fed, what— which we talked about earlier, is like a point of resonance, is like, oh, I'm so sorry, I lost so-and-so. And in some ways that is kind, in a way it's not helpful for them, right?
Yeah.
But the— what's the mo— I thought to myself, what's the most helpful thing I could do for them? And the answer was, I'm not sure, because I don't know what they want or need. And I came to the conclusion that most people, in terms in like a place of grief in their life also don't know what they want and need because they're processing something that's new and unfamiliar and hard and uncertain and all of the things. And so instead of saying, if you need anything, let me know, or I'm here for you, which puts the burden on them, I just do the thing that I think would be helpful for them, like showing up with a meal. Or offering to help them with something or asking, you know, is it okay if, and then fill in the blank. So for some people it's like, is it okay if I swing by and drop off a whatever instead of just like going and giving them a casserole when they have 900 casseroles in their fridge already and they're like, please don't bother me. Right. And so, yeah, it like starts with what do I think will be helpful? Let me validate this with that person and let me just— and if they— and also adding disclaimers. Like, I always, when someone's— and this is a very particular scenario, but when someone's operating a situation of grief, I will say something like, and you don't have to respond, just to give them the permission. Like, I need to be alone right now and I don't want to respond. And sometimes they don't, and I don't take it personal. I'm like, hey, I can't imagine what you're going through. Happy to give you dinner. Not sure if that's something that would be helpful for you. Just let me know if you want it, and if not, no need to respond. That's like one example. And then if they're like, dinner would be great, I wouldn't just make what I want to eat. I would say, okay, what would be something you would like to eat today? And if you don't know I'll order you a pizza. So again, I'm giving them options, but like not forcing them into it. I'm making it easy for them to decide. You can default to pizza and be like, pizza's fine. Or you can be like, I really want tacos from this place that's an hour away. And I'm like, done. I'll drive there and I'll go pick those up for you. Or I'll DoorDash them or whatever. Right? And you figure it out. And that's the same thing in a sales conversation when someone's like, I'm not getting sales. I'm not just like, okay, time to run a webinar, let's do it. I'm like, why? What's happening? What do you want to happen? What have you tried so far? Like, I'm really sitting with them and getting all this information. And then I figure out like, this person hates events. I would never tell them to sell through webinars. They're gonna be terrible at it and have the worst time. Like, as soon as they're like, I just love being in person with people, I'm like, great. Great. What are some ways that you've done that before? They start telling me more information and I'm like, let's do that. Let's try that. I had this one person who, he lived in this rural area and he was so far from the city. I said, what's your favorite thing to do to sell? And he's like, honestly, I love grabbing a coffee in the city. It's like a 2-hour drive. I love grabbing a coffee in the city and walking through different like art, you know, galleries and things and just like meeting people who share my values. And he was a life coach, so he could literally coach anybody and was just like, I just love like talking to people. When I get into a conversation and I notice an opportunity, it's just natural for me, but I live so far out of the city. And I'm like, okay, well, what are your options? And we talked through it and we came up with this plan that once a month on a Friday when he had a lighter schedule and it was a lighter flow of traffic, he would drive up to the city in the morning first thing and he would grab a coffee and walk walk through town and go to different galleries and meet different people. And that was just like a non-negotiable part of his sales strategy and routine because it filled him up. And worst case, he would have a great day, really good energy, lots to talk about, lots of conversations. And on the best case scenario, he would get multiple clients from his conversations and relationship building. And then outside of that, it was like, well, I can't rely on one day a month. To go meet people. So how can I also create those experiences? And for him, because being in person— what's the best next step? It was to figure out how do I cultivate, how do I take some of those characteristics of that experience and infuse them into what I can do, which is show up online. So it was, let's have an open talk with a featured artist, and they come on, and, you know, we can play with these ideas and build an environment that suits you, that fits you. And maybe some of it, like that example, is ideal and some of it's less than ideal.
Yeah.
But it's what you have to work with. And I think giving yourself again that grace and cutting yourself a little bit of slack and getting creative and curious about what your options are. He could either choose to move so that he could have the experience all the time, which is again, a choice, or continue to be where he was but make it work for him in the way that he found to do that, or that we work together to find it. And that's the name of the game, really, is like, you have to decide where your priorities are. And if you're like, once a month is not enough for me, then you're probably not living in the right place, and you probably need to make some more significant adjustments. But in the meantime, You're not just gonna blame and shame yourself and do nothing and make no progress. You're gonna make it work while you find better alternatives. And that's another thing to learn is through it all, you're still making it work for you. You're still finding what's right for you for now and accepting it's not always gonna be this way, but it needs to be this way right now for me to get to where I wanna go. I'm not just gonna sit here and suffer until that happens because there's too many things between now and then, and you deserve to have a good experience in life and in your work.
Yeah, such a good— so many good points in there. Justine, if someone wants to get connected with you or be in your world, learn more about you, how can they do that if they're doing it online?
Well, it's funny, I will often answer this question and say if you listen to podcasts, then you should probably check mine out, which is People Over Profit. That's the name of my show. But I will also say I am a millennial and am really good at marketing and selling. So if you Google Justine Beauregard, my website is going to be the first one that pops up. My entrepreneur.com articles are going to pop up. My LinkedIn profile is going to pop up. Like, there are probably so many of us, but it's me that's going to be at the top of those search queries. So you can find me pretty easily, but my website is just myname.com, and you can find me on Instagram @justinebeauregardcoach and on LinkedIn under my name as well. So it's pretty easy to find me.
Sweet.
Uh, we'll have all that in the show notes. One last question before we close. This is a question I've been asking people. What is one thing that you used to believe was true that you no longer believe is true?
That it takes time. I don't think time is the metric that I subscribe to because, you know, we can be sold again on many ideas. And the minute you tell yourself it takes time, it will, because that is what you've told yourself. That's what you believe. The minute you tell yourself doesn't take much time at all, you start to notice a much faster outcome. Like, I've gotten on calls with people that I just met, and 45 minutes later they're paying me $5,000 in cash over the phone. Done deal. And it's because my belief is it doesn't take time, it takes skill, it takes knowing, it takes curiosity, it takes intention. It takes connection. And so the minute you tell— watch what you tell yourself. Be careful and mindful about the stories that you believe and subscribe to because they will often become true even if they don't need to be. So anytime you tell yourself something, just make sure that you're not reporting it like the news, that you're actually like, do I wanna believe this? Do I wanna be outsold on this idea or not?
Okay.
That's a good— I love how you ended that though, is like, do you want to be sold on this? Because some, right? Because ultimately you might want to be sold that it takes time to give yourself permission. And if you aren't that kind of person, you might wanna be sold like, no, it don't take that much time.
Yeah.
So it's really about, again, to our the whole point of this whole conversation. What's authentic to you? What is you?
Yes.
So I love it. Okay. Thank you for being on. I so appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was so great. That's a wrap for this episode of Business with Chronic Illness. If you would like to start and grow an online coaching business with me, head to the show notes to click a link to book a sales call and learn how to make money living with chronic illness. You can also check out our website at www.craftedtothrive.com for this episode's show notes and join our email list to get exclusive content where I coach you on how to chronically grow a profitable business while living with chronic illness. Until next time, remember, yes, you are crafted to thrive.
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