How Eldest Daughters with Chronic Illness Can Balance Life, Business, and Boundaries | Nikkei Lamodi

A quick note before we begin. Some of the topics in this episode may be sensitive or triggering. Please listen with care and remember it's okay to pause, skip, or seek support if anything feels overwhelming. Also, the information shared here is for educational and informational purposes only. Coaching, like the guidance shared here in this episode, focuses on self-reflection and actionable steps., and it's meant to be therapeutic but not medical or therapy support. Your well-being is the priority as you listen, so take care.

Welcome to Business with Chronic Illness, the globally ranked podcast for women living with chronic illness who want to start and grow a business online. I'm your host, Nikita Williams, and I went from living a normal life to all of a sudden being in constant pain with no answers to being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses and trying to make a livable income. I faced the challenge of adapting traditional business advice to fit my unique circumstances with chronic illness, feeling frustrated and more burned out than I already was while managing my chronic illness, to becoming an award-winning coach with a flexible, sustainable online coaching business. I found the surprisingly simple steps to starting and growing a profitable business without compromising my health or my peace. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do the same. If you're ready to create a thriving business that aligns with your lifestyle and well-being, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for women with chronic illness and how we make a living. This is Business with Chronic Illness.

Okay, so, so excited about this episode. We are going to be talking about being an eldest daughter living with chronic illness and running a business. I have been so excited about talking about this. I've been thinking about this, and it's so interesting how I've been really dealing with this in my therapy session. Like, is for real? We have Nikita Williams on the show. But first, before we, like, do an introduction, I want us to just— why is being an eldest daughter, running a business, and living with chronic illness like the triple whammy of stress sometimes. Like, seriously.

Mm-hmm. And it's so interesting because, oh, the triple whammy of it all. At the core crux, eldest daughters, there is a sense of duty and obligation for other people outside of family, for coworkers, for friends, for strangers that you don't even know. And so throw in that now business owner, and that's clients or customers. And then on top of that, if you have that chronic chronic illness, then with a chronic illness, you have to take stock of yourself. What is your body saying? But that is sometimes so blurred as an eldest daughter because you're too focused on everybody else that you're missing the warning signs or the messages that your body's sending you. So then you compound all three of those together, and it's like, it can be this messy soup that's in a pressure cooker and just is building up pressure. And so if you don't use tools to help you work through releasing that pressure over time before it builds up too much, it can create a storm in your body, in your life, in your business. And so yeah, those three things together can be really lethal if it goes unchecked.

I mean, that alone, just like, that's mic drop of— can we get an amen? Can we get a like, yes, please say that again? Somebody understands this.

Yes, it's like, tell the people in the back, okay? Say it again for them.

Because everyone who's not an eldest daughter is like, I don't get it, I don't know what you mean, like, I don't understand, like, it's really not that big of a deal, just say no. You're just like, wait, wait, wait a minute, it's not that hard, right?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so before we like dive even more in, please introduce yourself and tell us like, how did we get to this niche of a business and what you do?

Yes. So hi everyone, I am Nikita Williams and I'm a certified coach who helps eldest daughters create healthy relationships with other people without sacrificing their time, their money, or their desires. And I am a firstborn eldest daughter, Nigerian American. And so this niche was not blatantly loud in my face. Let's just say that. I was looking on helping everybody else, obviously. I mean, I went from women in general to then moms. I mean, all these different places. But this was not blatantly loud until it was basically told to me like, no, this is who you need to help. And that's when everything started connecting. And my story, I was like, it's been here the whole time. And not even realizing that clients I had been working with were eldest daughters. And so This started, like, all the way back— well, I feel like what triggered the start of my healing journey as an eldest daughter was in 2021. I was on the second leg of caregiving. I caregave for my first step— my first parent, my dad, who passed in 2018. And I was caregiving for my mom— thank you— in 2021. And what triggered it was just being fed up. I was so angry.

Mm-hmm.

I was so angry it was palpable in my body. Like, I felt triggered that why do I look around at my siblings, my peers, my friends, and everyone is pursuing their dreams, getting the house, having the kids, getting married, living abroad, doing the thing, and I'm still here not pursuing any of the things that I desire to do because I keep sacrificing time, money, desires for other people. And it wasn't bad. Like, you want to show up and take care of your loved ones. But at what cost? I was so depressed and was having really dark thoughts and was really, really angry. And so through a series of different decisions, I learned that I need to change my relationships, but specifically how I show up in those relationships.. And once I worked on that, that's when things started to shift and change. And when I looked back at what skills served me to be able to actually sustain this, even 3 years later, it came down to like 4 specific eldest daughter skills, like I like to call them. And so that's how I kind of like arrived towards this specific group of people, but also understanding like what we need in order to create the harmony that we deserve in our life. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it is. So when I think about this, because I remember me and you and a couple of, like, several other amazing women were in a room together and we were having this conversation about just like our marketing, our niche, and all that kind of stuff with our businesses. And I remember, I think I was sitting next to you and I was like, and you were like telling me this stuff and what you do. And I was like, that sounds really good. And then I was like, but are you that? Like, I just remember being like, is that Wait a minute, I'm confused.

Yes. She called me out in the best way, y'all. The best way. I needed that.

But it was like, when we— like, I feel like when it came to it, I was like, but I feel you. Like, I feel connected to what you're saying. And it was like an identity, even a wake-up moment for me in that moment of being like, oh, there is a different way of being as a human being. Like, when you're born into this world as the oldest, like, there really is. Yeah, especially as a woman of color and especially as being like from a family that's multicultural. Like, it's definitely a thing. And I just remember thinking, oh my gosh, this is going to be amazing because I never heard of anything or anyone talking about this or even, you know, making it be a thing, right? Because not everybody in the world can relate to this. And so obviously I want to put this caveat in here too. If you're an eldest daughter and you don't have or feel any of these pressures, girl, I am like clapping for you right now. Right now, I'm clapping for you. OK, I'm like, can you give me your number so we can talk so I can learn something? I'm not one of those people. I am very much very similar to you of like, point in my life where I felt like— I think I'm probably in it now, where I'm like, I'm resentful. I'm mad. Like, why am I resentful? Why am I mad? Like, and it's not from a place of not loving people. It's not from a place of not wanting to be there for people. Place of being tired of being the only or being seen as there is no other option. And why wouldn't you do this? Like, the expectation that I am not also a human being too and have needs, and I need to articulate those boundaries, right? And so to your point, we add this into the layers of having a business. We ain't even got to the chronic illness part.

It—

you don't see how you're doing these same eldest daughter characteristics, but you bring them into your business and it— I think it amplifies it because you're getting paid. Yes, like the exchange, exchange of money feeling of like I'm getting paid and so now I'm even more responsible. So let's start from that angle, from like business as an eldest daughter. What warning signs are there that we need to be like, aware of? Just aware.

I feel like I'm just gonna go with the top 3 that came so fast in my head. One, this idea to save your clients or customers. Like, I have to save them. Like, the— everything is an emergency or very urgent. So they send you an email, hey, just wanted to let you know I need to reschedule our session. You drop everything to respond, go to your calendar. Like, when Is that the business hours you put in your contract that you were available to receive a response? Did you say you have 48 hours to respond? So if you feel like there's always this need to save your clients or your customers in any way, everything becomes urgent. That's a sign. The second one is like this ability that you have to earn their validation and earn their praise, because to you it's connected. Some people may be worth, but some people, it may be the validation of your authority and credentials. So you're constantly trying to over— you can overdeliver, but without sacrificing yourself. So like, you're trying to earn it, like doing the most, making these promises, just saying whatever comes out because, oh, this sounds good. Maybe then that they will say this and this, and then I will feel like, OK, I actually am supposed to be doing this, or I am credentialed enough, or I am good enough, like I say in my marketing. So just this sense of trying to earn the praise and validation. And then the other thing I think about is just people pleasing, like just not simply saying, that's not what I offer in my coaching package, or that's not one of the services that are in my à la carte. Instead of like— and we can have nuance, like Nikita shared, like you can decide, oh, I've never thought about offering that as a service. Instead of saying, you know what, I don't offer that, but give me some time to think about that and I can get back to you. Instead of people pleasing, like, oh, absolutely, I can make that happen. And in your mind you're like, how am I going to do this? I'm already at capacity right now. So there's two different ways that that happens. One is a healthy way that honors you and the client, and another one is like honoring the client but not honoring you. And so I feel like if you're doing like those top three things, then you have some issues with your eldest daughter mentality that you've been accustomed to. You've had to adapt to in your family to survive. That is bleeding into how you show up as a business owner. And when Nikita Williams was sharing about when you think about the exchange of money and how that comes with more, like, responsibility, I literally was like, I just got this exposed in coaching with my money coach of me thinking I was serving people for free for too long because I was like, the moment they pay me, I have to be perfect. She was like, wait, what? And I was like, yeah, I have to be able to solve everything, do everything, and just be perfect. I don't want to let them down. And that's one of my biggest fears is letting people down, whether they're my family not. And so really, like, that eldest daughter narrative was bleeding into my sales and affecting my sales and affecting— and she said, no, your identity just needs to be, I get my clients results, not I need to be perfect when someone gives me an exchange of money. So that's another, like, side off where your eldest daughter narratives, if they are unchecked in a healthy way, can bleed into your business and affect you.

Oh man, I mean, come on, y'all, come on, come on, right? Like, like, like, that's just a real— all, all, all 3, 4 of those things, right? Like, money is my— money in general is kind of like my— I work a lot on my money mindset because I have a lot of drama on money mindset. I have a lot of growing up around thinking about money, and also just because My family growing up was very much like, you want to figure out how to figure this out. Like, if you need it, you want it, you want to figure it out. I've had a job since I was 14, on top of being the oldest daughter, on top of like paying or taking care of some things in the household, because that's, that's where we are. So I always think through money lens. So as an eldest daughter, I definitely saw that immediately in my business where I'm like, money, it was more like the exchange of money added more pressure. But I knew I needed the money, so it was always like that first in my brain. So the perfection came after you paid me, right? The thoughts about being perfect.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. But it is so interesting that those things affect us so much, just thinking the way that we think. What— like, when it comes to people pleasing, I think people think specifically women, that it's okay to do it sometimes. And as an oldest daughter, I think there's this expectation that we're supposed to do it all of the time towards our family, like specifically family. And especially— I don't, I don't know how this applies to anyone who's the only daughter, I can imagine. But if you are the eldest daughter of multiple children, the expectation is that you carry all of the responsibility for all of the things that happen or don't happen, right? And so you almost get into a habit of people pleasing and don't even realize that it's showing up in other places of your life.

Yeah.

What do those things look like? Like, what did— what does that look like?

I do want to say too that, and I learned this from a therapist online, Matthias, I think his last name is Baker, but people pleasing is more about you. It's your ego. It's not about the other person. Like, we're people pleasing because we want to control the narrative. We want to control people's perception of us, what they think, and we want to be able to feel in control of if they're happy, then things are not uncomfortable. It's not conflict. I feel good. But what we don't realize, it's like you're just chasing a dopamine hit. It goes away, and then now you're still in your head of, okay, now I have to get ahead, anticipate, manage the next thing to keep this person, or to, or try to keep this person in our mind happy or satisfied or okay, or that I'm doing a good job. And so it ends up being like this hamster wheel. And so I feel like when you're people pleasing, like, you are constantly thinking about, before you answer that, yourself, before you're actually thinking about the other person. It's like, oh my gosh, if someone— like, for an example, recently friends sent a group chat, we're gonna go to Jamaica next year in May, you know, we're so excited, who wants to come in? It wasn't— my first thought wasn't, oh, I can't do this, I'm not adding another line item in my budget this year. It was, oh, are they going to talk about me if I say no? Is there another group chat that's going to be started if I'm like, oh, I can't afford to go on this trip? Like, it was like I wanted to control the narrative about me. It became about like my ego instead of just giving everybody the benefit of the doubt and saying— and saying— asking myself, do I want to go on this trip? Notice I didn't even think about me first. I immediately thought about them about me. So when you're people pleasing, you're constantly showing up thinking and trying to anticipate about the other person's perceptions about you. Or if I do this, what are they gonna do for me? Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, if I help my sibling go to the airport at the crack of dawn when I told them that I'm gonna have a really busy day with meetings, like, what are they gonna do for me the next time I need to go to the airport? And we know as eldest daughters, we be stacking things away in our Rolodex in our mind. Remember back 3 months ago on Tuesday at 3 o'clock when you were in LA and I was in Atlanta and you asked me to do this during FaceTime.

Hmm.

We recall because it's about us. So I think about it that way. Like, that can show up in so many different ways depending on the dynamic— work, family, friends, where you're at and what's happening.

I think that is so interesting, especially the last part. Like, yeah, you do be thinking— you be holding on to all that stuff. You be like— you be like, really? Like, all of these things said and did, all these things. And they like, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, they're fine. They live in their peace. They don't care. They are completely oblivious, right? It's interesting that you say that. Listen, I hadn't heard that. I know that is for a lot of people the thing— I recently— y'all, I'm really being vulnerable with y'all on this episode. I recently, with my therapist, was like, the thing for me is when it comes to people pleasing, it's a matter of wanting control. It's more of like— 'Cause if there's no control, then something's going to break. Somebody is going to need— they're going to need more of me than I don't want to give, right? That's really— that's my fear. Like, I don't— I want to make sure it's all good because I don't want to have to have more energy than I have to expend already because y'all done messed up. Like, I don't have time for that, right? And so it is like you are like wanting to control. To me, people pleasing is more about controlling other people. To avoid hurting or harming yourself. But in reality, if you just put your own boundaries up and say no, or say how you can show up, you create that same exchange, right? But in a much more like, I feel like, mutual experience, right? So, so such a good point. I love that you said that, but like, that's a really good, good point. OK, so we're talking about this. From business, like let's add the chronic illness layer to this because personally, I have this feeling often all the time. I'm like, how is it that I can accomplish like so many things living with chronic illness and then be expected to be able to hold? And usually it's emotional stuff, like it's usually emotional baggage of the family or things that are going on. Sometimes it's financial. Most of the time, honestly, it's emotional, right? And you're like, how am I supposed to carry all of this and carry you and carry you and carry all of this stuff living with chronic illness? And you still expect so much, right? You still expect so much. And it is one of those things that you're like, how does that bleed into your capacity? To me, it leads to more people pleasing. It leads— yeah, because you want more control. And also, I find for some of my clients that are eldest daughters, it turns into perfectionism. It requires so much of their energy. They give— like you were saying, they want to give so much in order to stay safe. In reality, they're causing themselves more harm. But for you, what have— or what you— what would you think about that as an eldest daughter living with chronic illness and running a business? What are some things that we need to be aware of?

Yeah. And I do want to preface too, for those listening who do have a chronic illness, like I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition back in 2022, and I didn't realize that all the flares I was having leading up to the diagnosis were perpetuated by stress.

Yes.

And then when I was diagnosed is because the flare got so bad that I was losing all my, my hair and it was like kind of just taking over my face. And so I just want to preface this from a perspective of I empathize with you, and I may not from your specific experience, but going from a diagnosis and the fear and the anger and not knowing what— OK, what does this mean for me in the future and all of that. But what I do know is that sometimes I think even if family knows— because I did share with some family members and some select friends when I got diagnosed— if they don't see an outward sign of a struggle or pain, it's almost as if, oh, she's fine.

Yeah.

Right? So they're thinking, oh, yeah, she told us about that, but you're still showing up. You're still— to them, you still juggling so many balls. They're like, oh, she good. Like, we knew she was the strong one. Look at her go. So let's see if she can help out with this. And so you internally are, like, feeling a lot of pain or a lot of frustration or guilt or shame of, how can I say I cannot? Or not today, or can you ask someone else to do that, or I can't answer the phone right now. You know, the ones where you call them back and it's like, oh, I called you but you didn't answer. Oh, is there an entitlement that you're supposed to always have access to me? You know? So then we get these narratives of feeling a lot of guilt and shame and frustration around our bodies even. Like, why are you presenting this obstacle for me that I can't show up for my people in the way that I want to when I want to. So then maybe our anger gets directed at our own bodies. And then even just like, well, if I ask for help, who's going to come through for me? Then you feel like— yeah, we're on a lone island by ourselves balancing this chronic illness. And that can be extremely isolating because then it— that's where the resent— I feel like resentment comes from that.

Yep.

Because you're like, how can I show up for y'all all the time. And yet, I don't even know if I ask if someone— you may say yes, but are you going to follow through? Are you going to remember? Are you going to hold it over me and then ask for triple more for something else? You know, like, we really, like, think about these things. And so, the chronic illness presents another deepened layer that, again, can leave us feeling angry, guilt, shame, and even just loneliness of, like, who is here for me? And if you have a partner that is supportive, supportive. It doesn't minimize your partner being there and what they do for you, but your family or that closest friendship that you have shown up for time and time again in every situation, that you don't even know with full confidence can be there or would be there for you if you were to ask. So it becomes very, very, very complicated and blurred.

Girl, I ain't gonna cry. No, I ain't gonna cry. That is— that Right there. That's, that's what it is. It's, it is such a— I think so many of us don't— we are living in this, like, the reality of that. Like, you, you have to do this work. This is the thing I love about coaching. If you become a coach, you become aware of thoughts and narratives and like life that you're living that you didn't— like, it was just normal. You just thought it was normal, right? You thought being the only person or being the person because you are the— it was all of these things that we're talking about. This is awareness that it's not okay. This is a red flag. It is not normal. Even though it is normal, like, for everyone else to see it, but it's not— it's not normal in, in a, in a good way, a healthy way for us to operate in the world. And I really appreciate you sharing, like, your journey with the autoimmune stuff because that was my journey. Like, it literally— a lot of us don't realize that probably half of our chronic illnesses and half of our autoimmune, visible or invisible diseases, are literally from trauma as a child that manifested in our bodies as what they are today. And stress in all of them, all, all of us whose trauma was just from like family drama and like all of this stuff usually manifests manifests into like some kind of sickness is usually triggered by stress. So when we don't know how to operate, when we don't know really what is our safe place, what our boundaries are, what our actual true capacity is, not what we have overextended ourselves to be, then it triggers flares up. It triggers, you know, more pain. It triggers all of these things. There's a ripple effect. I really appreciate us just talking about this because I don't think we hear enough about it.

And we don't—

there's not enough awareness around, like, you're not alone in this if you're feeling like this. Like, I needed this episode as much as I needed to share this episode because living with chronic illness by itself, y'all, just by itself, that's enough. Like, it's so true. That's enough. OK, very true. Then we decided to be business owners and then, then we got family. Like, we like, oh Lord, what did I do? We add money into like, we just add it, we just, right? So with someone listening to this who's like, oh my gosh, y'all like are speaking my language. I don't feel alone. Like I finally get someone who understands this and gets it and is like put into words why I might be feeling this resistance. Resentment, why I'm feeling lonely even though I'm surrounded by people all of the time, like those things. Mm-hmm. What can they start doing now? Like, what can they start doing now and started to like reclaim their sense of self in a really positive way? Yes.

And I am going to share this knowing that the eldest daughters listening are going to try and implement this like today, today. But this is literally something that is a lifelong journey that improves with every single 1%. Like, that 1% adds up, whether that's a 1% over a week or 1% over a month. So be kind to yourself. But I have broken it down in like 4 skills. I like to call them the eldest daughter skills. And the first one is like communication with grace, but it's direct. And That is basically noticing what you need and making a request for it. And I say request because everybody loves to have choice. So if you notice you're about to start having a flare, making a request to a sibling or a parent of, hey, I noticed that I'm not going to be feeling well here for a couple of days. Would you be able to help me X, Y, and Z? It's noticing what you need and then making that request and you're giving grace in the communication. So we're not being like they— like siblings like to say, Miss Bossy. You're not doing that, right? You're being like a lot of grace, but you're being direct and clear about this is what I need you to do. Because I feel like especially with siblings, like if you're not clear and specific, they will interpret it— you, can you run to the store? Can be to them, oh yeah, I'll just do Instacart. But it's like, no, I need you to go to Whole Foods and get the organic produce, not just do Instacart from Aldi or whatever. Like, you know, like they will do what's the easiest, quickest thing, but you may need it done a certain way. So like, just clear communication is the first thing. And then the second thing is boundary care. And I feel like with my clients, I create boundary care plans for their two topmost pressing relationships. And I think with boundary care, really thinking about how can I take care of myself when I go to implement this boundary with this specific relationship. I know this parent tends to be a little bit more gaslighty when I use boundaries. So how am I going to take care of myself when I go to implement that, and I know they're going to use it. I'm going to use my tool to kind of disengage, but I'm going to need to take care of myself after that. There's probably going to be a lot of guilt. I may question if I'm being selfish. So really implementing how can you take care of yourself when you implement boundaries with certain relationships, and know that boundaries are not rules for other people to follow. It's more for you to communicate, here is what I am and I'm not doing. So if you don't want people calling you after 9, don't tell them don't call me after 9. Just say I'm not going to answer phone calls after 9:00 because it's for you. They can still have their choice. So boundary care, thinking about your boundaries and what you want those to be for your relationships. And then the third one is like talking to yourself like you would your best friend. This is huge because I feel like as eldest daughters, we are the biggest cheerleaders for many people in our lives. Like, we speak so much life into people and we don't do that to ourselves. We are— we could point out all the things we did wrong, could have done better. And then as soon as someone says, oh, what'd you do well? We're like sitting there like, hmm, what did I do well?

What?

You know, talk to yourself like you would your best friend. Like, man, this is a really hard day and I have been really short with people. But you know what? At least I showed up today and I plan to go back tomorrow and apologize to the people that I didn't really talk kindly to. And that's okay. They love me. I'm sure they'll understand. Versus, you are such a meanie, like, what's wrong with you? Just because you got a chronic illness don't mean you could talk to people any kind of way. One is not helpful. The other one is restoring, reconciling relationship with yourself and other people, you know. So really practicing talking to yourself like you would your BFF. And then that last one is asking what else is possible, because I feel like eldest daughters believe certain narratives, and then we take that narrative as the absolute fact.

Yep.

So I don't like to play the game of like, don't say that, that didn't happen, they didn't think that. I just like to say, what else is true? Like, what else is true? Okay, yeah, I probably could have called. Okay, yeah, they didn't— I didn't really say that they needed to be there at that time. Like, what else is true on top of what you're already believing? And what else is possible. And when I think more like that, it allows for me to also see the ways that what else is true. I'm not the only person who has a car. So who do have a car and can they go and run and do this store, run to the store, do these errands? So it's like allowing for yourself to ask yourself those things more. And these 4 like skills, just using them over time allows for a greater self-awareness of what you need. Getting that support, and honestly protecting your peace, protecting your time, protecting your money, and protecting the ability to do the things that you desire to do for yourself. So those are like the 4 starting points I would say to start at if you are struggling with some of the things that me and Nikita have been talking about.

Yeah, that— those 4 things are crucial. Like, I feel you on that. The last, like, year those are definitely the core things that you have to work on, especially the boundary piece about being for you and not rules. I think that's the hardest. I think honestly, that's the hardest. I have a, I have a saying with my clients, like, to your point, to challenge what they're thinking is true, but also like they believe things can't be different. They believe that that their circumstances are their circumstances and nothing else is possible. So I always ask them, like, is that really true? Like, is that really true that you can't ask so-and-so for this kind of support? Or are you just feeling like you can't? Like, that's very different, right? And so I love that questioning too for you. Like, what else is true? What else is possible, like, beyond you? Because it gets you out of that people pleasing, out of that I have to be the only one, I'm the only one that can solve this issue, like all of those thinkings. And I think it's powerful. But I would like to say what warnings to— I want to say, like, what are warnings to have in mind for us as elders, elder starters, when we start operating this way? Because I've noticed myself in my community and my, you know, relationships with people those 4 very important things that you're doing, you start showing up different. And so those people who have benefited from you being in that other mindset, that other way of being, shift. So in case you're freaking out, you might freak out for a moment, here's what you can— like, I feel like, what are some things that they can be like, oh, this is, this is what's going to come along with this journey as I like transition or start loving myself more, having more boundaries for myself.

Yes, I feel like it's such a good point you're bringing this up because one, you're probably going to be interrogated.

For real though, you will. I'm telling you, you will.

There's gonna be some interrogation. And again, because it's so interesting how other people just seem like self-entitled, unbothered, like, oh, I will, I won't. And eldest daughters are not that way. And so if you're starting to implement some of these skills, people are gonna be like, oh, why are you not able to But I thought you said, well, can you do it next week? Like, they're not afraid to ask questions. Like, so being prepared to decide, like, what do I want to answer? How do I want to answer it? And sometimes I like to answer a question with a question. If they're like asking me something in rebuttal to like me expressing a boundary, it's like, oh, was I— was I not clear? Can I say it a different way? I'm so sorry. Maybe I said it— maybe I need to say it differently. Do I need to say it differently? By asking a question with the question of, I'm basically telling you there is no other option. And you find what works for you based on, like, your temperament, the person you're talking to. But one, prepare to be interrogated. And two, prepare for, like, a resistance or pushback. And I feel like I find this a lot— eldest daughters don't like to follow through with consequences. So then people don't actually take it seriously. And so deciding, like, what is the consequence— and it doesn't have to be this pre-thought thing, but just, like, if someone is not respecting boundary. If someone is like, what is the consequence? And they may not even know. Maybe you turn the phone off. Your phone is just turned off. I told you not to call me, but you're still calling me, so turning my phone off, that's a consequence, right? And if they ask, like, I kept trying to call you, but it just kept going straight to voicemail. Like, oh, I know, I turned it off. Remember I said, like, you know, whatever, whatever, this was happening? Like, consequences give people, like, a reiteration of, like, that neural pathway of, like, oh, when I do A plus B, this is going to be the C result. So thinking through that, because that's just part of people feeling entitled to you. And then I feel like the last thing is to remember that, like, you're gonna feel uncomfortable because this is new.

Yes.

Don't allow—

so uncomfortable.

Yeah, the feeling of being uncomfortable, their reaction to make you believe you're bad or you're doing something bad, and to really allow yourself to decide, like, I can trust the decisions that I'm making even if it feels uncomfortable. And I don't like this feeling of being uncomfortable. And so the end of the day— and I want to just say this— the people who love you for you are going to respect it. Yeah, they are. The people who are in for their own entitlement and their own selfish gain are going push back the most, but they can only push back for so long. I mean, my dad was the biggest pushback of my boundaries when I first started trying to implement these things. I mean, he literally didn't get it. I mean, he tried extremes. What if I was dying and I needed help? I said, oh, I hope you would have called the ambulance. I literally said that. I hope you would have called the ambulance because I was all the way in Latonia on the other side of town, so He's like, well, well, I, I just need you to answer the phone. I'm like, well, Dad, if it's an emergency, call the ambulance. If I don't answer, leave a voicemail, and when I'm available, I'll call you back. I could not get him in the pool with him swimming. Like, no, we're not doing that, you know. But I say that as an example of like, people will push back, and I think it's just having the expectation of it. But for us, most importantly, not meaning letting it mean something about you, that you're doing something bad or that you are bad, because they do this subconsciously for themselves every single day. Every single day.

Yeah. So good. This is so good because all of those things will happen. Pushback. The, the pushback is really funny because you're almost like, like you said, you're like, I, I Did I say it in a different language? Like, I don't— I don't understand why this is not clear, but I love the thing you said at the very beginning, and I want to bring it back to here, which is that this is a 1% change. These relationships and the way that you've been thinking, the way that you've been showing up in these relationships, in your business, with your friends or family, your clients, they don't be like, wait, wait. Of course they're going to be like, what up? Right? Of course they're going to be what up, and you are going to feel really uncomfortable. I will add this to my— from my personal experience. Yeah, it will feel uncomfortable, but it will also feel so good. Like, it's like I was telling my husband this the other day because I had to inform— I had to like really stand my ground on something with a close family member about something. And it felt so— when I said, when I get uncomfortable, I either get mad or just start crying. It's like really annoying. And I was like in the moment, and after I got off the phone, I was I was just like bawling, but it felt like a bawling of like nerves, but also like I'm so thankful I did that for me. Like I wasn't like trying to like get you. I was just stating like a space for respect. And I was telling my husband, it's like, have you ever had cotton candy ice cream? Like from like any place that's got those Pop Rocks in there? Yes, right? It feels like that after the like uncomfortable feeling. Like you're like, oh, it feels tingly and awesome. Like, okay, that's what that feels like. Because if you aren't doing this work in tandem, like all holistically, you can go into the opposite direction, right? You can go be like, oh my gosh, you go back into like, oh, I lost control. I need to control this. You go back into those tendencies. So just to know that these things are going to happen, you're going to feel these things, they're going to have pushback, helps you stay in your cadence of doing this so that it becomes easier and easier.

Yes, that's the best part. The— it's like you start to feel the benefits of it and it gives you the courage to keep trying, like to keep doing this and like, oh, that felt really good. Look at me. I am not overbooked on Saturday. I actually have the whole day to myself because I said no. I implemented my boundary. I communicated. Like, it feels so good but scary. And I love the way that you describe that, Nikita. Like, that's literally how it feels. Like, what's going on? But I'm like, in a good way. Like, this feels good. But I also like what you mentioned in the very, very beginning of like, we can still— we still desire to show up for our people. Yeah, we're just not doing it at the cost of our health, our mental health, our finances, our quality of life, because they're not. And we deserve that. We are deserving. Of a quality well-being in these different areas while still also giving to them in the ways that we can without sacrificing our quality well-being. So this is not to say you become like, what's his name, Scrooge, where we just kick everybody out, live our life. You don't hear from me, you don't get nothing from me. If that's what you need to do. There are some people who have excommunicated from their families. There's certain things that, that calls for that. But if you're in technically like good standing with your family, You just need to have better boundaries and communication, like find what that looks like for you in this different way. So I just wanted to reiterate what you shared earlier about that.

Yeah, I love, I love that. And I, I also think too, Nikita Williams, that you might have been feeling lonely with a whole lot of people around you, but when you start implementing this, you might still feel lonely until the right people come around you. Like, I feel like there needs to be space for that to be said because you might be like, oh, I'm doing this and I still feel lonely. I feel even more lonely because now, like, maybe your schedule was super packed on Saturday and now you ain't got nothing on Saturday. And you're like, oh my gosh, don't— I think the other thing, elder daughters are afraid of being alone and, like, literally alone. Like, nobody's around you. But there is peace when you have peace within yourself. Of being good with you, right? And then that attracts the right kind of people because they want that. They want that kind of confident, loving, caring person that's not willing to, like, you know, just break all those things down for anything and everything, right? And so I think there's this— there's like, while you were talking, I was like, ooh, that's another thing to say, right?

That—

the loneliness may feel like it's still there, but you will heal. You will find those people.

Yeah, it's so, so true. And I want to say too that like when the right people come around who reciprocate, I still have to like check myself and adjust. They'll text me like, hey girl, thinking about you, like how are you doing? And I'm like, oh, another conversation. And I'm like, Nikita, you remember when you used to want people to check on you, ask you how you're doing, or just the fact that, oh, people actually care about me, like how I'm doing, and they're taking the initiative to check in. And I'd be like, oh yeah, I did. And I'm like, it doesn't mean you have to make it urgent and respond right now. That's not a pro— it's not an issue. Just respond when you can. But man, it feels good. So even when you get the right people who reciprocate, it may even feel weird. Like, is this— what is happening? They have ulterior motives. Like, why are they bugging me? But it's just you— this is what it feels like to be seen and for people to be considerate of you and your needs without you having to like say anything. And it's a beautiful feeling to have that.

This was so good. Like, I needed this. This was so like affirming and also like, girl, who is some hard work to say easy work. It is, it is, it is really, it's really touchy. Like, it's very personal. So I'm glad we talked about this. Tell us a little bit more about how like people can find you and what it is that that you have coming up soon or that you're excited about?

Yeah, um, so I'm over on Instagram, nikita_williams. I'm also over on TikTok if you're a TikTok girly. I, I have fun over there as first gen eldest daughter is the handle. And I have a podcast as well, The Wellness Help Desk, where my content is literally for eldest daughters and their life, their time, their money, and helping them just create relationships so they sacrifice that. And I am so excited to be having more spots open for one-on-one coaching right now. So I am in a place where I'm trying to continue to think about creating resources for eldest daughters that help them with specific things, because I feel like you talk about money, that's a whole nother conversation. You talk about holding space for emotional baggage, that's a whole nother conversation. For the first and second gen eldest daughters, you talk about the pressure of being an immigrant daughter. That's a whole nother conversation. Mm-hmm. And it all looks different. And so I am just so excited to be in this space of like, how can we create the resources of these evidence-based tools and things, but in a way that's for eldest daughters and that is like practical. So I'm just focusing on that right now. And I am so honored, so, so, so honored that you let me be a part of your podcast in talking to your community. I do not I do not take it lightly, and thank you so much for just letting me be here.

Well, thank you for doing what you do. I mean, I, like I said, of course it would be an elder stelder to do this. Like, of course it would, because we're the only ones. I'm just kidding. But like, we need, I think we need more conversations on niching, like these big topics that we're talking about. Somebody might be like, that's super niche. And I'm like, I don't know about that being super niche. That's right on on track. I mean, so I just love having people come in and know that there's resources and people who can— they can listen to. And like, I follow your podcast, I listen to your stories, I'd be like, girl, yeah, mm-hmm, amen on that one. I echo, like, I'm like clapping my hand. I'll be sending you DMs like, girl, that was good. That was— that was it.

And I'm trying to— I'm trying to get more spicy. Ooh, I'm trying to get more spicy in my content. I'm trying to like say the things, but then I think I don't want to offend like my— I think, I think about my siblings, or I think about proxy friends, and I'm like, I'm really not talking about this in a negative way. My siblings know that. But it's like, these are things that people think to themselves, but they don't say out loud. But I'm like, I need to say it out loud so other eldest daughters know you are not alone. This I'm thinking this or have thought this too. So I appreciate when you DM me and like give me feedback. It's so, so encouraging and helpful. So thank you.

Well, thank you for being on, you guys. I'll have all her info obviously in the show notes, but you guys know what to do. Go hit her up, follow her, and show her some love.

Thanks.

That's a wrap for this episode of Business with Chronic Illness. If you would like to start and grow an online coaching business with me, head to the show notes to click a link to book a sales call and learn how to make money with chronic illness. You can also check out our website at www.craftedtothrive.com for this episode's show notes and join our email list to get exclusive content where I coach you on how to chronically grow a profitable business while living with chronic illness. Until next time, remember, yes, you can. Are crafted to thrive.