How to build a paid digital subscription magazine & community

Welcome back to the She's Crafted to Thrive show.

I am so excited about this episode because I can finally introduce you to the woman behind the new series that we're going to be sharing, which will be featuring women who are handmade sellers, women who are artisans in their own right and building businesses that they love. Dani is the owner of the Handmade Seller Magazine, which was founded or made back in 2015, and she's been curating stories of these women and putting it in a paid magazine subscription where you can read it with a cup of tea and feel like you have a warm, cozy hug, if she will, is how she probably will describe it anyway. And I think she actually does in this episode, but we will talk about how we connected, how we met, how her amazing love for digital marketing and all things digital when it comes to SEO and Google has really helped her build a thriving business. As well as how that has translated into her new stained glass art business as well on Etsy. So we're going to talk about the new collab, the new series, um, the journey of an online digital magazine, and the stories of the women that we get to share here on the show, and the women that she's got to interview and have on her magazine. So there's going to be lots of gems and lots of laughter. Me and her laugh quite a bit in this episode, so get ready to chuckle and smile and stay Stay tuned.

Welcome to She's Crafted to Thrive. I'm your host Nikita Williams, and this show is for all the ladies who are making and creating things that they love. You will hear conversations about the real everyday struggles of juggling life and business while trying to maintain passion and harmony. As women, we have the skill of getting things done, but sometimes we get in our own way. It's here where you'll see that you're not alone. You'll discover that success does not mean perfection. Fear and negative thoughts and challenges are all a part of the journey. And on this podcast, you'll find the inspiration and tools you need to have a life and business that thrives.

I am like so excited to have Dani on the show, you guys. Like, okay, so I don't even know how did we come into each other's world? I don't even know how that happened. I was just thinking about that recently.

I remember.

So you'll have to tell me because I don't remember.

You had followed the Handmade Cellar Instagram account, and I saw your name pop up in my feed. And then I went to your page and I followed you back. And then I saw some of the quotes that you did. I mean, there were quotes from your podcast interviews. And one of them was about— I can't remember what it is now, but it was about authenticity. And I really liked it. And so that was actually when I followed you. I was like, oh, she's really cool. And I followed you. And then I went on to do other stuff. And then you sent me a voice recording on Instagram, which no one's ever done before. And I was like, whoa. And you were like so excited. You're like, oh, I didn't know about you guys. And then we just picked up a conversation and now we've got all kinds of exciting things planned for the future.

That is so crazy. Yeah. Now that you say that, now I remember. Yeah. And it's funny because when people tell me that they're like, yeah, nobody does it.

I'm like, they don't?

I feel like that's so weird to me.

And I keep trying, I can't get it right. Like I try to do it and it's like it records or it doesn't record and then it cuts off before I'm done and then I just get frustrated. So that's why I always type my responses to you.

Gotcha. Yeah, it can be tricky. I have a problem of talking and forgetting that it's not like an app called Voxer that allows you just to keep recording. And then I'm like, oh wait, this is only like a minute and it's been off for like 2 minutes and I'm like, I have no idea where I stopped. Start over. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I am super excited to have you on the show and to start this whole new, like, relationship we're going to be doing with the series and everything. So me too. Let's, let's let everybody know who you are because we kind of just jumped in, like who you are, what you do and all that jazz.

Sure. So I'm Dani. I am the founder of The Handmade Cellar magazine, which is a business magazine for artists and Entrepreneurs, where we share, primarily share stories from other sellers about their business journey, you know, what they've, what their journey's been like, what they've learned along the way, what they achieved, what they'd like to achieve. And then in addition to the magazine, I have also just launched my stained glass career at the end of October. So that's going really well. I've been an entrepreneur forever. I became a realtor when I was 19. In 2005, I believe, or '04. No, '05. About 6 months after I became a realtor, I— because I was a total computer nerd, I started getting into internet marketing, just all kinds of different types, affiliate marketing, building and ranking blogs on Google back when that was actually possible.

Wow.

Lots of fun stuff. And then over the years, one of the ways that I have continually grown and learned is through reading. I read a lot of books and I love the ones most that have stories about other people and what they've achieved, because then it makes it feel, you know, more possible for yourself. And so that's what gave me the idea for the magazine, because I've always been artsy and crafty and loved the handmade industry. I loved Etsy, and I thought, what if we just had this place where everybody could share their stories? And it's like a monthly piece of comfort, you know, that you can open up the magazine and read about other sellers who are doing what you want to do or are doing. And I have grown tremendously from it because I've read— I've probably read 150 stories now or so because we launched in 2015. And if it wasn't for the things that I had learned from those sellers, I don't, I don't think I would have been able to launch my stained glass career so fast and so efficiently if I had not been learning from all these other amazing women since 2015.

I, oh my gosh, I love that because that's, you know, I mean, that's probably why we like connected is because the idea of like just using each, like the journeys of everything that everyone's going through and connecting and learning, like we don't have to like make the mistakes by ourselves. We can kind of learn through the other.

And you don't have to beat yourself up about those mistakes. Everybody makes them.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think I was going to say, like, I was thinking about you when I was thinking about this episode, like this episode. And I was like, I feel like you have an upper hand in it when it comes to like marketing, like online, because you are like, you know, I'm still baffled. Okay. I'm still baffled because we did like a little test thing. I felt like it was like a test to see how it would go of featuring one of our podcasts. On your blog on The Handmade Seller. And to this day, every day I get an alert on how many downloads, and I know it's not— it's coming from your, your, your site. Like it's coming from your blog.

And I'm like, what kind of magic Google stuff is happening that she's doing?

Because wow. Because it's not a very long— it's not a very long like blog post. It's, you know, it's not like, like I always think of blog posts being super long, but it's not very long and it's still doing doing really well.

Yeah, and length doesn't really matter so much. It's really, you know, people who are really into Google SEO will say you need a minimum of 400 words. You know, that's not necessarily true. It's quality. That's all it is. If you post quality content and not too much of it, you know, I actually feel that in some cases the shorter posts do better because people are too busy to like just sit down and read blog posts every day, you know. So, I mean, a short and sweet little intro into the podcast is— it's all you need.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

I feel that way too. Like in general, I mean, it's— I mean, I think about social media and how it's growing and I'm like, I mean, people can consume so much information within 15 seconds and they're like, I'm good.

Thanks.

So it's like a blog post that can take, you know, 5, 10 minute read sometimes can feel like a lot.

I sometimes even, I get overwhelmed reading my own blog posts. I gotta make time to read this, you know, and I have so many other things. And I think about that when I'm putting them together and I try to like condense it so that other people aren't getting overwhelmed like I am.

Hey, it's the real, is the real, the real talk here. So like how, how, Like, what is— why did you start? I know you said you started it because you felt like you wanted to bring those two worlds together, but like, what made you think of making this like a subscription magazine, like online? Like, where did that come from?

You know, I can't really say where that came from. I've always liked design, like digital design. I'm not a professional graphic designer by any means, But the idea of visually taking these stories and combining them with pictures— and it's a, it's an art form to design a magazine because you're making art with text and pictures, and it has to flow, and it has to grab your attention at the right moments, help keep you engaged and understand where the story's going. And I think I've always really enjoyed that process. But as far as a subscription-based, I don't know why I chose to do that. It just seemed like the thing to do.

Ah, okay. Was this like, it just, I'll try it. Yeah.

I mean, I figured most magazines are paid, you know, it's something you subscribe to. And growing up I had subscriptions to like Bird Magazine and I just loved getting that in the mail all the time. And even though, you know, it's not a paper magazine, it still just seemed like a fun idea to subscribe to something and get it in your inbox every month.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

So what, Like, how scary was that? Like, how did— so did this start as a hobby or did this start off as like—

No, it started as a business. Yeah, no, I've always been very overly ambitious with my career goals. So it wasn't a hobby. I just jumped right in. I knew that I wanted to do this and I wanted to do it right now. I was already working with Etsy sellers, like helping them with their SEO and stuff because I had a ton of experience with Amazon. Which is a harder platform. At the time it was much harder. Now they're getting a little bit closer to each other, I think. So I was able to transfer that knowledge to Etsy and help people with their shops in that way. So I was heavily involved in the industry and I thought, because I was also going to be an author in the magazine, I could also write about this stuff in the magazine. And in the beginning, my, my sole focus on the magazine was education, like marketing education, because I was very obsessed with that for like the last 10 years. So much so that it was actually to my own detriment because I kept thinking if we just found this golden ticket strategy, you know, that if anybody implemented it, they're going to be successful. And I truly believed I was going to find that. And what I left out of the equation was me. Yeah. Business is— strategy is important, but business is more heart than strategy. You have to love what you're doing. And when you love what you're doing, it resonates with other people. And then the marketing concepts, you know, come into play and, and you choose the ones you do and don't like, which is something that really affected me for a long time because I thought I had to do everything and that just doesn't work either. So it was reading about the personal sides of the stories from all these Handmaids that really changed me to realize that I do not have to have this perfect marketing strategy. I just need to go out and do it, which is what I did with my stained glass with zero strategy. I just opened my Instagram account and started posting my art before I had my logo, before I had my launch strategy, before I had a cohesive feed with all my photos and all of that, an email marketing strategy, an email list, sales funnels. You know, I thought I had to have all that stuff. Like if you had asked me to launch this stained glass career a year ago, I would've been like pulling my hair out, trying to like build an email list and do everything before I even posted a picture.

Yeah.

That's just not how it works. You just have to start and you grow into it. You learn your style and your aesthetic and your product as you move along. And then you implement marketing strategies.

Yeah. You know, you say a really good point. It's like something that I like from a coach's standpoint, what I always tell people is like, Like when you first start and you think you have to have all these pretty things. Yeah. And I'm like, for me, the only thing that you need to be clear on is why you're doing what you're doing and who you think will want what you're doing. Like, like to me, that's the only thing that really matters. Like when you're first starting. And so like trying to do all the things, it's like, no wonder people get burnt out and it's like, no, I'm good. Like, yeah, I love creating and making, but I hate the business aspect of it, and it's because they're trying to do all of the things they are and, and possibly even trying to do the marketing things that they just don't like.

You know, like, I love Instagram, so that's my focus, whereas other people don't, and they shouldn't focus on it if that's the case. I know people who only focus on Pinterest, and that's totally okay. It's just whatever your heart wants to do. Yeah, yeah, do that and do it well.

Yeah, exactly. And I think too, being like sure that I feel like if it works for you, it's going to work for the people you're wanting to attract, right? Like, so, yeah, totally. Yeah.

So for— so here's an example, a real-world example. I love plants. I don't know if you can see all this in the back.

Yes, I see all your green.

I love houseplants. And so my— what I've been focusing on with my stained glass is making plants, like plant stained glass, like monstera leaves and stuff like that. And I love it. I'm doing it because I like it, not because anyone else does. But because I have chosen to do plants right now, there is a whole group of people who also loves plants that I can market to. So what you love, doing what you love is going to bring the people to you that also love those things. So it's not that hard to find your target market because they love the same things you do.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. That is so true. I love that. So tell us more about the stained glass. So the, the hint, like the, the magazine, I mean, it's been your baby for a long time. Yeah. Like, when did you think that the glass business was going to come? Is this something you've played with before or did you just get introduced to it? Like, with, like, what happened?

So we have to go back a couple of years. Okay. So remember how I said that I was leaving myself out of the equation and just like marketing?

Yeah.

And so, so probably 3 years ago now, I kind of felt like I was only halfway complete. Like, I felt like something big was missing. And since I've always been artistic, and prior to this I was getting my artistic fill from Design the Magazine, but then I started to feel like something was missing and I really wanted to make stuff with my hands again. So I got really obsessed with finding an art, like way too obsessed. Remember how I said I can be too ambitious sometimes? And so I just like researched and researched, you know, and looked for something that resonated with me. And I ended up landing on soap and shampoo bars and like, uh, about body butters and I love all that stuff. And I, for 2 years, I got really good at it and I kept trying to launch a career with that and I couldn't do it. Like as soon as I started thinking about marketing, all the joy was gone. Like I had no interest in selling it. It was the weirdest thing. I liked making it. I loved giving it away as gifts, but I did not wanna sell it.

Yeah.

And so that was really discouraging because I waste, not wasted. At the time, it felt like I wasted that time. I felt like I wasted that time. I felt like I wasted a lot of money because I bought a lot of ingredients. My husband's like, oh good, another box of body butter. So I got discouraged. I got probably depressed for about 3 months or so. And then finally I was like, you know what? It's just going to come. I'm going to let it go. I'm going to put all my energy into the magazine. And there is something out there that's for me and I'm going to find it. And it was probably within 2 weeks I was on Instagram and I saw this girl who had posted some stained glass stuff and it was just like, oh my God, because I love bright, shiny things. And I have an engineer for a father, and I used to be super into building stuff. And so everything about it was just perfect. I got the art side, I got the, you know, building puzzle pieces and putting them together side. And I thought that stained glass— first off, I thought it was an old lady's art.

Oh no, stained glass. I mean, I guess, I guess I can gather that, especially if you have a real estate background, because you only really saw it like in houses and churches and things like that. So I guess that's pretty.

Yeah, it's just not my style, right? Lots of reds and greens. It's just not really my style. And so I saw someone who had put a different spin on it with like pastel colors, and I was like, I didn't even know they made pastel glass. And I also thought that you had to like be in like do an internship for 10 years or something to learn how to do this, and you don't. You can go on YouTube.

University of YouTube. Yep.

So that's what I did. Cause there's no stained glass places in Montana. Well, there are, but they're far away from me. So I did YouTube, the videos, there weren't very good ones. So I kind of muddled through and here we are.

They're beautiful. Your pieces are beautiful. I do. I love stained glass, especially when it's like, not like that ornate oldie granny kind of feel, but just like, yeah, I know what you mean. Like I almost— we almost— we put an offer on a house just because a part of the house had this beautiful, like, completely different looking stained glass octagon-shaped window. And to this day, to this day, I think, man, that would have been the perfect house just because of that stained glass window.

Just because Tupac didn't get a picture of it.

I probably have it somewhere, but I probably deleted it because I do that to myself. Cause then it's like just torture. Just let it go, Nikita, let it go.

So maybe I can make you one.

I, so while you were talking, I was like, oh, I would love to have one in my office somewhere. Cause I get some really great light and I was like, oh, that would be cool. So how are the two worlds like work together?

Like what, Oh my gosh, so good. And it really does feel like I found the other half of myself because before it really frustrated me like that. I would sort of try to teach marketing strategy, but I had no handmade shop of my own to demonstrate with. And it was really frustrating me. And so now I have that. And so now, like, as I'm doing something with my stained glass and like I do a marketing thing and I'm like, oh, I can tell all the magazine people about this strategy and I have like, I can show them. Yeah, I don't just have to say, hey, I did this 5 years ago and it worked. Nobody wants to hear that. Yeah, so it's, it's really great that now it's like the two worlds are married together because I can, you know, I can on one hand teach stained glass and on the other hand teach how I'm marketing it to a different group. So it's really fun.

And you built a, like, a really awesome community. I don't think people realize, like, when you do like a a magazine like that, or when you do a blog that's around like all these other women's stories in there, like all these other people's stories, right? In their handmade place, you've already like, you've created your own little like community. Like it's like your own, like, like, uh, what do you call it? It's like your own tribe of raving fans have already been created to like love on you for what you're doing. So that is so cool.

Well, it's more like they're loving on each other. Like, yeah, that's what I wanted to be. Like, I want people that— I don't want them to be like, oh, Dani, you know. No, they love each other, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I get what you mean, but I also think they really feel like that with you. I'm saying this now that I've talked to just a handful of them, that they're all like— they're like, I'm just so grateful Dani thought of me and has put me in these things. Like, so like, I'm just saying that from the handful of women that I've gotten to talk to and they feel like— Oh, that's super sweet. Yeah, they're excited about being a part of the magazine and that the community, but they're even more excited that you felt like their story needed to be told in your magazine. Like, that's a big thing too.

Everybody's story needs to be told. I mean, yeah, we can all learn so much from each other. And I can totally, I can say that with confidence because I've easily spent over $10,000 buying marketing classes, like since 2006 or '05 or whatever, you know, and, and I learned a lot of good stuff, but I just feel like it's— you learn much more from real people. Not that those people weren't real, but I mean, I don't know how to explain it.

So I like to explain it because I know exactly what you mean. We are story-driven people.

Yeah.

Right. And so like, even in the way we learn from the moment we're incepted, wherever, you know, like we are, we are innately like taught by lessons and stories. And so when, and we learn better that way. Some of us learn better visually, auditorially, like, like video, sometimes it's writing, but it's all usually people really do well. With stories. And so when you're learning things, like, so like, you know, this is what you do, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, versus this was my experience. This is what worked. This is like some of the challenges and the things that just makes people feel, oh, well, it's not going to be perfect. It's going to be messy, but it can still work.

Yeah, exactly. You said it perfectly.

So let's talk about what we're going to be doing. Like, I'm super excited because I think, like, I never thought this would have happened. Like, when you, when, when, when that hap— like, when you connected with me or I connected with you, how we connected smashed into each other's world. I was like, my brain was like going, like, I think we had so many like back and forth Instagram. Like, what about this idea? What about that idea? Like, what about, what about, what about?

Yep.

And I just love that we've kind of both come to a place where your genius can like shine and like the thing that I'm really good at can shine. And I just love that that's going to be like part of like us working together with that.

So it just feels so perfect. It's like it was meant to be. So, so our plan, you know, as everyone listening knows, is we publish stories from sellers in the magazine. And the way we do this is I create a story template for each seller and I ask a bunch of questions and I assist them in writing down their story. And so it's really cool, you know, people basically get a chance to write down their whole journey, like from start to finish. And they always come to me and they're like, holy cow, I've never done that before. Like, I even learned something about myself while writing this. So that's really cool. But as the magazine issues progress, you know, their story goes back further and further in the line of magazines. And anyone who subscribes can read all of them. But usually people go back about 5 to 10 magazine issues, and then they don't go back any further. And we've shared so many amazing stories. I thought you're so brilliant with your podcast. What if you interviewed these ladies? Because different parts of your story come out, you know, verbally. And when someone's asking you questions versus when you're writing it down.

Yeah.

So we get to see a whole nother aspect of these women and their businesses and promote them in a whole new way. Yeah. Because we're both gonna be promoting them together.

Yeah.

It's just really exciting. I can't wait to hear some of the stories that come out of this.

Yeah, me neither. So one of the first ideas was that Nikita was going to write about these conversations that we have on—

That's right.

And I was like, and everybody knows, and when they listen to the podcast, there's the— they know why I started the podcast is because Nikita is not a writer.

So that's why you do the voice message.

Exactly. And people were like, like, I was like super excited about it. I had a client at the time when, when we first interacted and she's a writer and she's an editor. And I was like, this super awesome opportunity came, but I'm freaking out because she wants me to write. And she's like, but you don't like to write. I'm like, I know. I was like, yeah, but I think it will be a great opportunity. And I think it's like, like you said, like, it's a great way to kind of bridge those two worlds, like the written word to the emotional. You cannot, I feel like you can kind of get the inflection of what someone's sharing, what they're talking about, and when they're writing it, but it's so different when you're like listening to someone talk about something like—

Or watching them.

Watch. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, even like I was telling you before we started recording, I've recorded a couple with the ladies and like, I've read their stories, but in person, like hearing them and like they've opened up a little bit. They've gotten a little bit more— Morgan, Morgan Neild, who is it Neild or Neild? I'm sure I'm saying it wrong.

I thought it was Neild.

Neild.

But I've only ever read it, so I don't know.

Yeah, I think it's Neild.

Sorry, Morgan.

Yeah, I know. Like, sorry. She is a great writer. Like, I didn't feel like when I was reading her magazine, like that's one of her genius zones is writing. And I felt like I really got to know her, but when I had her, when we were recording, I just felt like she even opened up even more, like, like emotionally, like you could, she was emoting it versus just like saying it. And I, that's what I'm most excited about is like, these women are telling their stories, but now they're going to be sharing it in a different way that hopefully connects even more, you know?

Yeah.

So yeah, it's going to be awesome.

Incredibly excited.

Yeah.

Um, it's going to be, so what we're going to be doing is having these ladies hop into their— our schedule. So now that Nikita Williams has an editor for the show, I am going to be producing 4 episodes a month. So that's like amazing because it used to be just 2. So of the 4, there will be some ladies that just know naturally. But for Handmade Cellar, there will usually be one of those episodes featured every month, which is correlating to a magazine that you've already put out. They could have been out like in the last couple months or a few years ago, but it kind of just reintroduces people back to them and pulls them back to the magazine. So that's gonna be so cool.

Yeah, yeah, it's— I'm excited.

Yeah, and I think I'm gonna have— we're good. Me and you're gonna have to do more of these because I think you have so much to share like from both sides of things, like from being a maker being a business boss lady who's built a really amazing community of women to join together, but also because you have like, you know, marketing genius somewhere that I need to tap into.

Tap away.

So it's so funny. I just want to say thank you for like even reaching out to me last year like that. I think that was one of the highlights of my year last year was just being like, Someone, cause it's like across mediums. Like I've always felt like podcasting, I usually am a— people that are attracted to my brand are like doing YouTube or like doing other podcasts, but not necessarily like doing something like a magazine. Like that's never like kind of connected. And so I was like, wow, this is cool. And then it's like the people that I like and like get down with.

Oh, it's just so perfect too for me because I've always wanted to introduce more video and audio into what I do, but I'm an introvert and it's just not, you know, like I like to write, you like to be on video. It's perfect.

Yeah, it is. It's like a little happy little business marriage. It's like really cool.

Yeah, there we go.

And we did not plan this outfit, you guys. Like this was not on purpose.

No, we did not.

Like not at all. Like I'm like, hey, How did that work out? So anyway, how— like, tell everybody how they can find Handmade Cellar magazine online and what— how they could support you and all that jazz and the glassmaking, because I need to go on there and like go look at stuff.

Yeah. So HandmadeCellar.com is our website for the magazine. If you want to try a free sample, you can go in there and click on the free sample button and download it. Our Instagram handle is The Handmade Magazine. I totally need to change that. It should be Handmade Cellar Magazine. I can't remember what my logic of thinking was back then, but it's The Handmade Magazine. And then my stained glass stuff is at Glassy River Studio on Instagram. So, and I just got to 2,000 followers today.

And it's awesome because that wasn't That didn't take a long— like that, that was quick.

No, it didn't. Yeah. So I opened my business Instagram account on October 3rd and I opened my Etsy on October 20th and I just reached $6,000 sales for Etsy and 2,000 followers on Instagram. So it's been going really well.

Yeah. Because we were trying to record this back in December and we had to reschedule because you was like, I thought those orders would stop coming, but they aren't.

Nope. And then after Christmas I thought they were going to stop, but I got just as many orders after Christmas as I did before, which I wasn't expecting. And so just, I think I'm starting to catch up now.

That, you know, that's a good thing. That's like what people want to experience in a lot of ways, like when they open, especially with Etsy, because I know a lot of people are really, they love Etsy, but then they hate Etsy. So yeah.

Well, and I should say that only 30% of my traffic comes from Etsy. Instagram is almost all of it.

Wow.

I did not. So I did, so I turned on my Etsy ads once and I hated it because you cannot target specific keywords. You just have to let them run with it. It's all automated, but also I don't like it because you run an ad on Etsy and if somebody like is scrolling through and they don't click on your product, that person's gone. You just wasted that money. Whereas instead, if you run an ad on Instagram, you get new followers and purchases, so you're not losing those people. And plus, if they like your images, the way the algorithm works, they are more likely to then see your images later on. So from October 3rd till now, I've only spent $240 on Instagram ads, which is 4% of how much I've made, which I feel like is pretty good. And I got the 2,000 followers. So just a little thing for people to consider, you know, instead of investing in the Etsy ads invest in the social media ads because then you're gaining followers and sales.

Yeah.

And if they don't buy right away, you know, you, they're still following you so you can nurture them and, you know, get to know them and then they will buy later.

And I would also imagine that when you have more followers, you have more clout in the sense that if people really like your stuff, they can share it to their Instagram or to their feed.

Yeah.

And when an ad is gone on Etsy, you can't really do that. Like it's gone, like it's just done. So like there's, there's nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah. Yeah.

People have been doing that. I didn't even know that was a thing where people were taking my, sharing my pictures in their Instagram stories. I didn't know that was even a thing that people do and they were doing it and I was like, whoa, cool.

It's so funny. It's so funny when I, when I talk to people who are like very like ads driven that are not usually happening on the social media platforms, but you have experienced it and it's like, oh, I didn't know that works. But I have the opposite way of like thinking, like I've done only ads and things like that on social media because that's only where I've ever been. So when you talk about like SEO and Google and rankings and all that kind of stuff, it looks like to me, it's like, what? Huh? So it's like a flip of that kind of like, oh, I didn't realize there's even more powerhouse happening with this $200 I just spent. Yep. Yeah.

So totally. Yeah. And the algorithm picks up on those ads too. So, you know, running those ads, if it's doing well, they are also going to then boost your post more organically if it's doing well. Like the other day, this actually had nothing to do with an ad, but the other day I posted a picture and I got more likes than I had followers, which means that Instagram was seeing the engagement and they were boosting it themselves without me even paying for it. So engagement's everything. If people like your photos and engage with it, Instagram is going to give you that added boost. And you have to have your hashtags. Yeah. Have those hashtags.

You have to have your hashtags.

You have to have, you know, there's a lot of things that can add even more to that, but yeah, I love, yeah. So we'll have to do, maybe that's the next one we'll do. Me and you together is talking like how to make that work for someone who is trying to use ads to grow their business or something like that.

Sure.

We could do that.

That sounds cool.

That sounds cool to me. All right. Well, that's gonna like wrap us up for this episode, but she'll be back, you guys. Dani will be back. I will be back. All right.

You're the first person to get me on a podcast.

Hey, good job. Good way to start. 2021. I know. I, I personally find that like really exciting. Like when people are like, I've never done one, even though I probably should have and wanted to. And I'm like, yes.

Yeah. You're really helping people get out of their shell and make them comfortable. That's so important. And I know I've noticed that a lot of podcast hosts don't do well with that. So it's really like, I love how you just make people feel so comfortable and like, I'm not shaking or anything, which is usually what I would be doing right now.

Well, I'm I feel like— so somebody asked me what kind of interviewer— interview styler I am, whatever. That's not a word, I'm sure. Interview styler? That's not a word. What kind of style of interviewer I am? And I was like, I feel like sometimes I'm a mix between Kelly Clarkson and Oprah. And they're like, what? And I was like, Kelly Clarkson is like so like— she's just like, if you've ever watched her show, she's so like chill. She's two pieces. Bits and pieces.

Yeah, I can see it.

And then Oprah, if the conversation calls for it, Oprah gets like real deep, like, let's get serious. Let's talk about it.

Yeah. And I have those moments.

Like, I have those moments. So I'm like, I think I'm a mix between those two. They're totally opposite. But hey, if they had a baby, it would be me.

Awesome. Two really good people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, we're going to wrap this up this time for sure.

That is a wrap, ladies. I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation that Dani and I had. I hope you learned some gems on how you could maybe start your own magazine or your own business by always having a little bit, if not a lot of bit, of you in it. Make sure it connects to what you're amazing at and what you love. And Dani wants to give us a gift, you guys. She wants to give us 15% off of her Handmade Seller Magazine subscription. So you can use the code SHE'SCRAFTED when you go ahead and do that. You can find her link in our show notes. But in the meantime, be sure to tune back and share this with and leave us a review on iTunes and share a little bit about how this episode maybe moved you or connected with you. In the meantime, as always, remember, yes, you, yes, you are crafted to thrive.