How to Pivot Your Business for Growth While Navigating Personal Loss?

Welcome back. In this episode, we are talking with Heather Crabtree and we're answering the question, what is it like to actually grow a business when life is lifing? When you are driving back and forth to a hospital, when you are, um, going through a challenge of taking care of someone else, when you are in pain yourself when you have a death of a dear loved one, a child, a spouse, someone? Does all of the other things in our life stop? And since we all know that they don't, how do we do that while still trying to make a living and finding our ground? And in this episode, I'm talking to an OG of business, I have followed her for a while. We talk about this a little bit in the beginning of the episode, but Heather shares her filter for how she has continued to grow businesses, sell very successful businesses, and then move into her businesses even through some of the hardest times of her life and some of them that she's still currently going through. We get that question. How do you do it? How do you do it? And if you've been wondering how you can embrace your healing journey alongside your outer success, this is the episode for you. If you've been wondering, how do I redefine the hustle culture that I've given my own self to serve me in a better way in order to see that true success for us living with chronic illness really comes from not working harder, but prioritizing our health. Like, how do we do that? And then lastly, what is the power of community and authentic connection? You guys know I'm deep on this. And how do you do this as an entrepreneur in a world where I feel like more of us are getting there, but it is kind of slow running and it's not truly all the way authentic. And I love that I get to have this conversation with Heather. So here's a little sneak peek of what you can expect. So stay tuned.

I think there's a lot of healing we still need to do, and I think you have to do that inter-self healing.

Yeah.

Not just— there's a lot of outer healing we have to do too, but I think we have to look inner. And when I started to do that more, and that was hard, right? Because it almost feels like you're picking apart yourself and you're peeling off layers and you're like, oh gosh, I don't want everybody to see that part. Like, that layer was not pretty.

Welcome to Crafted to Thrive, the globally ranked podcast for entrepreneurs living with chronic illness. I'm your host, Nikita Williams, and after being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses myself, I figured out the surprisingly simple missing links to growing a profitable business without compromising my health. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do the same. If you're ready to own your story and create a thriving business that aligns with your health and well-being, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for entrepreneurs with chronic illness. This is Crafted to Thrive. I am so excited to have Heather Crabtree on the show. I cannot tell you how long I have been in your world. Like, probably before I was even a coach, you've been in my world, and I'm just excited to have you on. So please just give everybody a little hello and where you are.

Yes, thank you, Nikita. I adore you, and I— and I— we have— we've been in each other's spheres for a while, and so it's awesome to finally, like, chat. And I want to— I was going to say in person, but, you know, virtually here. So my name's Heather Crabtree. I've been a lot of things. It's interesting. We'll probably talk about this, but I've learned that I'm a lot of things. And I've been an attorney. I've been— I owned an event planning company for 11 years and had a business partner and grew that. I'm a mama, a wife, and all the things. And now I'm a business coach. I've been a business coach actually for more than 12 years. I started, I was doing it while I was running the event planning company. And then we sold the event planning company in 2014. I was pregnant with my son then, and then I went full-time coaching. So that, you know, we're almost at 10 years full-time, I guess.

That's awesome. I'm 2 years behind you.

Yeah. Yeah. 2 years. But I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years.

Right.

Um, I've done a lot, seen a lot, been through a lot.

Yeah. Yes, yes. And I feel like that's part of the reason why I was so excited that you said yes for being on the show. And also life, right? Like, life happens. And I think you're one of the few coaches that I ever saw being open about what life is like running a business when other life things that are super big— health challenges, your daughter London having challenges, grief— and still operating in all of those things. And I find there's still not a lot of that conversation happening. No, no, there's still not a lot of conversation happening. And that's why it's been kind of a big part of my mission, not only to talk about it, to normalize running businesses with our lives, because they are not separate as much as we would like them to be.

Yeah.

What been your evolution, if you will, with not seeing what we're talking about right now, which is living with life happening and running a business? How have you come to peace with how you run your business?

So I think a big key for, you know, setting up so that we know why I kind of operate the way that I do is because since I was little, I had people really important to me pass away, and from big illnesses. So, you know, it was just a lot. And from when I was young, and then when I was in law school, the third year— well, my first year, my grandmother, matriarch of our family, passed away. The second year, my uncle, one of my uncles, passed away from cancer. The third year of law school, my father passed away, and the month after that was September 11th. So it was very traumatic. But like, I look back and go, I think life was preparing me for which it sucks to say that. I mean, to be really honest, but it was like all these— I talk to this about people, to people a lot about this, and I'm always the person of like, just moments are so precious, so like just make the most of them. And I have to remind myself too, right? I'm not perfect and I do, I love to work. So like I have to remind myself like, step away, it's going to be okay, it's going to be there when you come back. But for me, those moments really did at an early age. And a lot of people don't— I think doesn't a lot, and I don't want to say everyone, right? And there might be people that are listening to this like, yeah, I totally get it because me too. Or they might not have had that shift in their perspective yet, right? And I'm always like, don't make it like— I don't want a bad thing to have to happen in order for you to shift your perspective. And sometimes it has to happen like that. Like, you're just not going to get it until that happens. But for me, I see it as I was lucky in a way. It's a weird—

like, Heather, I am with you. This is— this— I get it because I have been there. And it was something I learned when I was like 16, 17. Big things, big loss, big grief. I get it. I get what you're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I just learned then that like, OK, life can turn in a second. And like, we never know what's coming. And I never come to it like as I'm looking for the worst to happen. That's not my personality. I'm a very like, I love, you know, I am a very positive. I like to see the bright side of things, but I'm also like, I also understand the realities of life too. And not that I've experienced them all for sure, but I have experienced a lot of hard things. And so what I take away from that is like, live in the moment, just love your people. And to me, my people is not just my family and friends, but has become my community, right? And in even that thing, my community, it's not my community, it's our community. It's the people that we surround ourselves with, right? And that come into our world. And I just value, even if they're in my world for, you know, a short period of time, and I don't mean like life or death. I just mean, like, you know, friends or however, acquaintances or business people. The dots always end up connecting at some point. I never see it when it's, like, right in front of me, but then I'm like, okay, I see why that had to happen in order to get, you know, to learn that lesson or to meet that person. So I'm always open to this, what life is giving me and how can I look at it as something that can shift the way I live in this world. And so I think so many things have happened. Obviously, we'll talk about it, but my daughter just passed away in February, and it was not expected at all. And so I'm still in— definitely, I'm not even say, like, I'm still in shock about it. Like, I can't believe that she's gone, and I have to deal with that every day, and my kids and my husband and everyone. But I think just this perspective of, like, Okay, then what can I learn from this moment and how can I take that forward? But how can I do it and just share it? Because I feel like sometimes I'm this— like, people have told me, like, you're a portal for allowing people to share their ups and downs. And I guess if that's what— if I can help one person, then like, cool, I'm down with being the person that like speaks up to allow someone else to feel like they're given permission to do it, even though I don't need to give anybody permission.

Right. Yeah, no, it's definitely so much there about just perspectives are different. I like to say that to lots of people I talk to because people ask me— I'm sure— I wonder if you get this question, like, how do you do it? And you're like— my answer is always like, well, if I don't, what happens? It's like, I don't— no other than like I could literally fall apart and nothing happened. And I'm like in this hole or I, I move through it and therefore— so I'm curious for you. I'm sure you get that question often.

Oh yeah.

Like, how do you do it?

Yeah, but I think there's this like, I think when people say that, it's almost like they feel like you have it all together. And I'm like, I mean, how do I do it? I do it like I'm curled up in my closet crying myself to sleep, just like you. I'm up at night thinking, like, how am I going to get through this? Just like you. I think we have these things build up in our head about how people deal with things and how they got to that. I've always been open about it, so I always sometimes laugh because I'm like, I've cried on Instagram more than probably the normal person because I shared what was comfortable. And I always was respectful for my daughter, too. But I also just wanted to open up the conversation of, like, this is happening. So let's not glorify this. I'm handling it all because I felt like that's what it was. Like, you're doing it all. Wow. You look like you're doing it all really well. And I'm like, oh, you mean when I'm in the hospital on my computer at 12:00 at night where my daughter is hooked to her chemotherapy? It wasn't glamorous.

And I never showed that it was like, I showed all the, like, totally dead.

But I think sometimes for— and I don't know if I bet you could probably relate to this too. I think it's these things that are really hard for people to deal with. And I think in order for them to be able to move through it themselves, they kind of have to kind of wash over it and make it prettier than it is so that they can digest it. And so I would find people saying things to me where I'm just like, well, you don't even— like, I'm not even showing you the really hard stuff, but I'm showing you enough to know that I'm just a person too. We all have our struggles and very different struggles, obviously, and we're different people and not want to compare my struggles to anyone else. But I just think that if we understood that better, we could get through this world easier. But I think there's this— we're trying to make it look better than it is. I saw— I want to share this— a mom who is an entrepreneur, and she— like, I think she coaches moms now. And she came out a couple of days ago with an Instagram, and it was like, while the baby was asleep and I worked out, and it was showing all the highlights, and I made $50,000 in like 3 months doing, you know, doing, being a mom and having a newborn and all this stuff. And I was just like, can you show me where the kid threw up on you? Because that's, that's what I can relate to. Can you show me where you didn't sleep? Because, you know, even if whatever it is, you know, it's not just the moms, it's like all of us, we have our things, but like, we're so afraid to share that because then it's like we're failing as entrepreneurs, right? And it's like, no, we're not. And I think for me, over the last few years, that's been the big shift. I've been okay with not doing what everyone else is doing and not having to show up and be all put together. And I just don't— I'm not— I think it also comes with my— as I get older, too, I just don't care as much. So all that thing, all that to say that I just think if we allow ourselves. And I know that can be hard because it can be vulnerable. And I also think it's like how we were, like how you grew up. Like, do you have the tools to be able to do that? That's easy for me to say. I grew up with very supportive parents and family. I was surrounded by family all the time. So I also understand that. I just don't think it just comes naturally. And I don't think it's always easy for people to show up vulnerable.

Right. Vulnerable.

So like, let's say that too. Yeah, you don't have to share everything too, right? I don't know, there's so many like perspectives. Yeah, I can see them all and I'm just like, okay, let's just acknowledge all of it, right?

Yeah, yeah. I think that's the piece, acknowledging all of the facets of running and living your life as an entrepreneur. I think like we glorify the easy, pretty— we see that often on social media, but when someone shows up, God forbid, like you do something that is like normal life, they're like, you're so brave. And you're like, I'm just living. Yeah, I'm just living. And so to kind of like go back to your life, mm-hmm, I'm gonna tell this story and I'm gonna try to say it without crying. I said this in the green room that I wasn't going to do this, but I think this is important because as a woman who's— I've lived with chronic illness for 15 years now. Yeah, my experience was literally helping my family take care of both my grandparents who live with us and my mom, both diagnosed with cancer. And as a teenager, okay, so I, you know, wasn't fully myself, like I wasn't fully who I am today, so still figuring that out. And I remember when I was like running my business online and I just kept seeing the one glorious note. Like, you show up, you look pretty, you do this thing. And I don't remember, it was like in a Facebook group or something. I saw you, like, you had like the baby wrapped on your back, and you were like—

I remember, I was— yes, I remember when you made the comment. You're like, look at Heather with the baby. I had, I had Lavender, who was just a newborn, and we were going through cancer treatment, and it was COVID, and I was homeschooling. I was a mess. I mean, like, I had the bags under my eyes, but I had the baby, and she was sleeping, so I was like, let's do this, here we go. I remember, yeah, I remember that.

And I just thought, oh, how would the world— like, and I don't mean this like in like, like such a big way, but how would the world look different if we saw more real life of that happening behind these businesses? And also during that time you were sharing what was going on with London and like I was just so— and I don't want to say impressed. I was moved because it made me realize it's not always easy to do what we do. But when you do do something that you enjoy, it kind of makes it easier.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right? And so for you and raising kids and raising London with cancer, Mm-hmm. What are the things that you feel like you've learned the most so far through that?

So I think the key for me is knowing at my core what my values are, right? So my family is first and foremost, always, always has been, always will be. And again, that's a privilege that I have because I grew up in a family that was very tight-knit. My dad was one of 11. So on every Sunday, we would have Sunday lunch. Instead of supper, it was Sunday lunch. Everyone brought in potluck. It was fried chicken, greens. It was every Sunday I did this. So I was surrounded by community my whole life. That's all I knew. So for me, and I was also— I always— everyone just pitched in. I just saw that as my aunts and my uncles and my grandparents and everything that they were going through. And my dad and my my grandparents did not grow up like— they did not have money. Like, my dad tells a story that he was in a baby bed until he was 6. Um, he used to tell me that story all the time, like, in a crib, because they just couldn't afford it. They had so many kids. Anyway, I just grew up— so I think that's the key, one of the keys for me. And I know not everyone has that, so I always say, like, if you don't, we need to find that source for you because I really think that that does make a difference. And I think until we acknowledge that kind of stuff that some have and some don't, all the things, right? But like, that was such a, like, a core memory of mine that when I had my own family, I was just like, that will always come first. And I, and I let my clients know that, like, my family's first. And what the cool thing is, is that my clients became family. My friends becomes family. Like, the people that I'm surrounded with, I'm a loyal— like, I am a giver. I am like, I will love you. I'm the mama. And so for me, as we were taking— as London got diagnosed with cancer and our world just changed dramatically, my son was 4 at the time. London was 9. She was getting ready to turn 10. It shifted everything, but with the core still being there that I'm going to do whatever it takes to take care of her and my family. And so I think because that was so just in me naturally, that was how everything operated. And I think because of that, people then saw, okay, wow, because I've been told that before, like, oh, that's so inspiring. I'm like, but that was It was weird for me because I'm like, don't we all just want to be seen and heard in that way and like, felt, feel loved? And so whenever I can like give that feeling to people, that's how I operate. And so like for with London, I wanted to share it. I also again was very respectful of her even at that age to be like, this is your choice. If you don't want me to share anything, I always okayed every picture. But like, now, you know, she just passed away. So we battled cancer for— I don't like to say battle. I don't even like that terminology. But we— and London will always say, I don't like the word journey. Like, this isn't a fun journey, like, through cancer, you know? But she was diagnosed, and when she passed away, it was 6 years. It was almost to the date. So I think for me, just going through it, it was just natural for me to like share because I didn't see that. All I saw, and I still see so much of this, it's like all the— I'm gonna say quote unquote sexy, but I don't even think it's sexy anymore. Like the 6 and 7 figures. And it's so weird to me. I'm just like, why? Why are we sharing it like this? I'm, I'm all about like making money and sharing money and all that, but like when that becomes your core message of everything, like something's wrong with this picture. And so it was like, how can we get back to just those basics of, you know, I say, um, Savvy Business Owners was how my business started. I called the Facebook group that I started Savvy Business Owners. So I've always kept with this word savvy, and savvy to me actually stands for something, and it's serving others, but also making sure you're serving yourself.

Mm-hmm.

It is taking aligned action, which means that we don't just do things to do them or because they're the cool or trendy thing. It's actually aligned with your life and what you need for yourself and for your, you know, the people that you're serving. And then that versatility and critical thinking, the V, because I think sometimes we— versatility to be able to shift when things happen. Like, I had to adapt, I had to be versatile and be like, okay, what are we going to do now? My husband and I had to figure it out. Like, and then the critical thinking part is like, let's think for ourselves. Like, let's actually think about why are we doing this this way and how does it work for us and for the people that we're serving. And then the other V is value, value-driven. Like, are you really living your values and is your business incorporating that and are you showing that? And then the why is just all the whys. For me, it's also like your why for your business, but also like just humanity. Like, are we acknowledging our humanity that we're humans and we're gonna make mistakes and we're gonna do things wrong, but also we're like living, breathing, organisms that can do amazing things in the world, right? Integrity, honesty, diversity, equity, all these things that end in Y that are so important to me. I wanna make sure that everyone that's surrounding me, it's important to them too. So I kind of just always come back to that and everything that I do in my business, I ask those like, is it, it has to like check, go through the checkpoint of like, is it aligning with my— the Sabi values, you know? And so for me, again, it comes back to my family and showing up as me. And if you don't like me, that's okay. And that doesn't mean, like, I just get to be whoever I want and say whatever I want. It's still acknowledging and living within those values. But I think when it comes down to it, it's just like, again, people want to be seen and heard and loved. When I really think about like, what does it come down to the core?

Yeah. So many things there. I agree with you, especially with the values and the alignment piece. I think we don't talk about that enough either, right?

No.

I think one of the things that I heard and I still hear, and we hear way too often, is like, what you want doesn't matter. And I've always had the feeling of then why am I doing it? Why am I doing it? Like, why would I be doing this if it doesn't matter, if it's not connecting with me? So I'm just out here doing stuff to attract stuff that I don't even really care about. Like, it doesn't make sense, right? And it also makes work harder. So I would imagine, based on what you're sharing with me and us, like, navigating that journey with London, if you were not in that space of alignment, if you were not in that space of all of those whys connecting, how could you truly show up, one, in your business and for London and the family? Like, not just, you know, how could that even be possible? Yeah.

And I have to— I had to shift a lot of things in my business based off of where we were, what we had to do. Like, we had to go through— her first year was very, very intense. Like, over her lifetime, over those 6 years, she— I calculated, I think it's probably like 50 to 60 rounds of chemo. I think probably 20 to 30 rounds of radiation. She had 3 surgeries, major surgeries. She had 2 stem cell transplants. And during those stem cell transplants, we were in isolation in the hospital. This was before COVID We were in the hospital in isolation. No one could come in. No one could go out. It was like a kid in a bubble. And then we still— we had my son now. And then in the last few years, we've had my daughter Lavender. It's like you're adding more to the plate. Well, at some point the plate becomes full and is overflowing and you can't do it all. And so I think there's been a couple of things for me. One is just acknowledging that I am not Superwoman, nor do I want to be. And so all these demands that society puts on us, I question them. I'm like, okay, is that important? Is that important for our family? Is that okay? How does that fit in? And then also just making sure that I, again, keep the core, the core. And so in business, that means shifting how I work and what I was able to do. You know, when I, I made a really hard decision the month before Lennon was diagnosed. I had just launched a membership that was— I had a lot of people in it at the beginning, and it was awesome. And after a year in, I just decided I had to quit it because I did not have the capacity to— and even, you know, I had a business manager and I learned a lot of that too, about having a team. And at one point I had like a team of 10 and it became a lot. My business became its own beast, I felt like. And when we were going through this, I had to make shifts throughout the 6 years. And when COVID happened and I had my daughter literally the week before, Lavender. And then we had just found out that London relapsed and we were homeschooling and we were doing just all the things, which a lot of that had become normal to us. So like when COVID hit, all of that, a lot of like mask wearing and all that was like we were used to it. We got this.

That's how, that's how our community as chronic illness, we're like, y'all tripping about some hand sanitizer and the mask. Please, this is our life.

Like, at least, at least everyone's washing their hands now. Okay, a little bit more excited, but like We got this because this is nothing compared to like what we've had to go through. And so then I think that again, in my business, I was okay though. Like, I was like, okay, I'm going to make this shift. And like, I just looked at it. I love that what you said, that it needs to work for us too. And you said, you know, like a lot of people, we don't think about that. We're just like, how can we make more money? You know, that's the message we hear. How can we make more money? How do we make— get more clients? And it's like, no, like, we want this to feel good for us too. And so for me, I looked at that, like, what does it feel like for me? What does that look like for me? What is it? And I looked at everything— systems, offers. And so that's what I do with people now, because everyone that I work with has been in business for 5 or more years. And so they're usually going in some type of transition or shift.

Yeah.

And we have to look at everything. But at the core of that, I go, what do you want for your life?

Yeah, exactly.

And so that's kind of— yeah, that's how— but it did. I had to shift everything about my business.

So when you had to shift— because I want to dive in a little bit on the shifting piece, because again, I think when I hear people shift— I heard a lot of people shifting, which is meaning like they're just quitting, done, over it. Yeah, like that's a thing.

I feel like it's been a sexy thing again to say like, um, pivoting, or I'm not even pivoting, but I'm just quitting my business. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah, yeah.

Calm down.

And I have a whole lot of thoughts about that that will probably be in its own episode. But I think at the core of the foundation of what we're talking about here, the reason why that is happening is because of this, right? It's because of when you were shifting and pivoting and all of life was happening, you were not taking into account the you part, the life part. And so you were just sharing with us, like, you have to make pivots and shifts. What were some of the mindset things that you had to, like, shed or call out that was completely contrary to what we hear in mainstream of, like, running a business, that you had to just come back more center with yourself to kind of be at peace with whatever decision and not make that mean, quote unquote, anything about you or how you show up.

Yeah. So this was a big shift for me when all that had happened, and it kind of all happened at once with COVID baby, cancer, homeschooling. All of it happened. I say I took a break. Now I want to be really honest, and I tell people this all the time. I'm like, let me just preface this with I still had clients and I was still doing work with them. I had a program I was running. It wasn't a lot. I think it was like 8 people or something, a high-end, like, you know, group mastermind kind of thing. Um, and I was still working with them during that time, but I wasn't taking— for a year and a half, I did not take on any new clients. And that was a huge shift because, mind you, I've been an entrepreneur since I was 24. So, and I've worked all my life, like I've worked since I was able to. And so it was really interesting to me. I had to do a lot of therapy around this actually. About my identity as an entrepreneur. And this was— it was, it was a lot heavier than I realized it was going to be. I tied so much of my identity to showing up and always serving everyone else, or what I felt like, but also like to being an entrepreneur, to like working and owning the business and marketing and like always doing, doing, doing, doing. And when I had to slow down, because if I didn't, I mean, there was, I just had no option. I, I really didn't see an option. I was just like, I can't be, uh, I, there was too much going on and not enough sleep happening and like so many things. So I was like, okay, I need to like heal from this because what I, that's what I, I saw. I think because of just what we have been fed and how being an entrepreneur, what it needs to look like, I had to shed that skin of like, like, because at first I was like, well, who am I without this? Like, if I'm not talking about my business, what am I talking about? Then I had to shed that second skin of if I'm not a mom, who am I? And so it was a huge perspective shift for me of like, Heather, who are you underneath all of this? You know? And like, what do you want? And I think that wasn't a question I had asked myself. I'm also like, I'm an Enneagram 2 Wing 3. So like, I'm a, I'm a giver and that's my nature. But I realized I had given so much of myself away, especially when you're a caretaker, like, I would have gave my life for hers, right? Or any of my kids and my husband or whatever. So I just feel like with that energy, you have to make sure you're filling— we say fill our cup up too. And I really wasn't doing that. And I realized at that time, I was like, wow, I kind of lost myself in there. I don't even know what I want or like anymore. I'm doing for everyone else. And that was including my clients and everything. I think those were two big shifts that I had to make. That entrepreneur one was huge, and I think so many people are wrapped up in that, and that is their identity. And if they are not making money or doing all the time, they feel like they're not enough. And I'm just like, we are enough without that. Like, that does not define us.

But in especially the online space world, which is this this weird, crazy Wild Wild West experience. Like, what's that movie with Tom Cruise? And it's like they're like in the— and I can't— oh my gosh, it'll come to me later. But it's like weird. It's just weird. Yeah, it's a weird life.

And I'm just like, I look— I talk to other people about it and they're like, that's so odd. Like, we would never do that. And there's always status and everything in any industry, right? But I feel like this And even saying online space feels weird because it's like, that's so vast. But it's like this online business world and what, how it's been led in the past. And I see it changing and I'm, and I love that. I still think we have a long way to go, but I feel like we were all just thrown into that and then we all wanted to be the cool person. Like we wanted to be a part of the cool group. So we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the things.

I look back to, yeah, I look back to like 3 or 4 years ago, even maybe 5, and like the copy that I was using then was so different than now. Even though I knew inside that that's not who I was and I wouldn't have used those words, I felt like I had to at that point in order to be seen. Because if you weren't doing that, then like you weren't a business owner, you know. I just, so all of that, I've had to shed that too, just like just do you and don't worry about— but then comes— there is that hard fine line of like, if you're too outside the box and doing it different, then people are like, huh, what? Like, you know, like, I feel like in the coaching world especially, it became really popular to be the face of the company, but like then not be an integral part of it. Like, you wouldn't see the coaches, you wouldn't you wouldn't have the support. I thought that was— I always thought that was so bizarre. I was like, so I just paid— I mean, I'm on one mastermind I was in. I just paid $30,000 and I have not seen the person, nor has anyone really helped me.

What?

What is happening? Like, I don't understand this. And I saw that, like, just when— because when people start to do that and they make a lot of money doing it, that becomes the normal. That becomes the norm. And that became the norm. And I thought, this is weird. But then I saw myself feeding into that.

What?

So I think, you know, you have to check yourself too. Like, whoa. That's when the values come in, right? That's why I think people overlook that. Like, what is your, like, true mission of why you do it? And what are your values? Because you have to use them as a checkpoint because you'll get sucked in sometimes and you're like, whoa, like, somebody save me because I'm going, I'm down there and I can't be pulled out, you know?

Yeah, so true, so true. I think to your point of really connecting to— again, we keep coming back to this topic of values, even in the shifting and the pivoting and like the identity. I don't think, you know, it's so interesting. I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like entrepreneurship is the gateway to learning more about yourself than you ever thought you would ever learn about yourself if you're doing entrepreneurship. The way that you're connected to you, if that makes sense, right?

No, it totally makes sense.

Yeah, so to your point of being like in— like, I need to pause, I need to— I'm still working my business, I need to pause, I need to go take care of the things I need to take care of. How did you shift into that outside of the identity, like from a practical hands and feet? Like, I have this business, I'm doing all of these things, and now I have clients, and I also have my life happening. How did you start to let go? Because I think that's a piece we don't actually talk about either. It's like, how do we start like moving things out of the way so we can be in the space we need to be?

Yeah, so one of the things my therapist said to me, because I was finding that I was having this imposter syndrome bad, and I was like, it's crazy because logically I know all the things that I've done. And like, I've done amazing things in my life and my businesses that I'm super proud of. I've helped a lot of people, I have people still tell me, and this is not like a, you know, yeah, but, but go ahead and brag. But a little bit to my own horn is that people constantly, weekly, will come to me and say, you know what, when I got into business, you were the first person I, you know, I was in a part of your group and you taught me so much, and I wouldn't be here today without that. Now, I never take on that as I'm, you know, the creator of that, right? Like, they, they did their own thing and I was a piece of that journey with them. But I think that we first need to acknowledge we are that piece of that journey. And so give yourself that pat on the back that you are helping people and you are a piece of that. But I also think as I was going through this, one of the things I was going to say, my therapist I talked to, she was like, who is this person that, like, it wasn't this imposter syndrome with other people of like, I'm not good enough or I'm not them. It was 36-year-old Heather was at the peak of her business and things were popping off everywhere, right? I had my membership, I had my group program, I had everything. I, I felt like I was on top of the world and then boom, life dropped in a moment, right? And I kept trying to get back to 36-year-old Heather. And what I realized was that I still need to do a lot of healing because— and that's, I think, the key thing to a lot of people that I'm seeing that still use these things to sell themselves as business owners and think that's the way you have to get clients or whatever. I think there's a lot of healing we still need to do, and I think you have to do that inter-self healing. Not just— there's a lot of outer healing we have to do too. But I think we have to look inner. And when I started to do that more, and that was hard, right? Because it almost feels like you're picking apart yourself and you're peeling off layers and you're like, oh gosh, I don't want everybody to see that part. Like, that layer was not pretty. But I think I was just open about it too. I was just like, oh, I just called it out. Like, this is what was happening. But it felt so hard for me but I was working through it with therapy. So like, that really helped me so much because I just needed to internally heal a lot of things at— and even as I was going, and still today, like, I— it allows me to pause and break and go, okay, what matters most? And I haven't always been able to do that, even though I have different portions. I love what I do so much, and I know you're like this too. I love what I do. I love getting to help people. I love getting to coach. I will give my shirt off my back for my client. I just love it that much. And I realize how— what a gift that is that not everybody feels about what they do. And so I do feel like that's a privilege that I have of, like, I really love what I do, but it can also be a downfall for me because I will give give, give, because I love it so much and not realize that, like, okay, you tilted too far one way and you need to come back. And I love what I do, but that's still my profession.

It's what I do. Yeah. And who I am.

Who I am. Yeah. And so I find myself even daily, and I think with everything you kind of have to do, I feel like a lot of times we look at things of, we have to do this now and we have to get it all fixed right now. And it's like, no, if we just looked at it like the stepping stones of what we're working towards. But I think a lot of times we don't set aside time. And granted, I mean, I get it. A lot of us have so many things going on, it doesn't feel like we have the time. But I'm like, the choice is you're not going to have the time. And it's this hard thing because, again, I think everyone has their own circumstances and experiences and that shapes them. And who they are and the support that they have. And so again, it goes back to community. Like, I just want people to feel loved and seen and heard. And I think once you feel that about yourself— and I think I didn't feel that about myself. I was just trying to please everyone else. And I think so that was another thing I had to really look at and go, okay, like, I'm trying to make everyone else happy, but like, am I happy really inside and who I am? And that was when I was like, I don't even know who I am anymore. So like, what, what does that mean?

Um, so do we—

go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say, doing all of that inner work, is that what helped? And I don't want to say that it's helped, like it's a thing that's over, because I don't ever think healing internally is ever really done in this—

never done.

Yeah, but the layers that you started to uncover in this pause slash still living in this hard time, did it make making those decisions a bit easier because you were taking care of yourself in a place that you may not have been before?

Yeah, I think I learned to— I was in a, a state of doing. I didn't know how to rest. It wasn't my life. It wasn't— even when I remember when my father passed away, like, life just went on. September 11th happened a month later. I went back to law school. Life went on. And I never took the time because I didn't have the tools. I was saying this to my therapist today. I didn't have the tools back then to be able to acknowledge and one, just become aware. Of what was happening with myself, with, with everything, right? So that awareness was a gift, right? You have to either have or make space to get to have that awareness, to allow for that awareness, because we need to be able to think or just feel, right? And sometimes there's too much thinking and not enough feeling, but yeah. So for me, it was taking that time off opened up a lot of wounds which I had to like work through, but it also allowed me to feel more myself and then allowed me to make decisions about my business that aligned with not only my family but also with me. That felt really good. And I will say everything in my business, most of the stuff I've done, I've never really not felt good about it. I've always been pretty aware of I don't have to— I don't like almost against— I like to go against the grain. Like, if everybody else is doing that, I'm going to do something else. And then it's like, oh, great, try to market that when no one knows what you're talking about. But I really feel now the most in tune with myself. And I think that's also just me getting older. I think it's all the life experiences. I think it's what the world is happening in the world, just like everything. But again, it's me having that awareness and taking that time to be aware and then going, you know what? I need to heal that because as a coach, especially so much as a coach, right?

We got to do our work.

If I can't work on myself, how am I asking my clients to do that? Yeah, even on the surface level, right? Like, I'm asking you to make your family— I have a client who is like, I'm like, no, you're on vacation. Like, do not open your computer. And I'm like, I would not have been able to— I probably wouldn't have coached her in the same way before, but now I have that awareness. And what I was saying earlier is I have the tools, right? I was given the tools to not only acknowledge and become aware, like, become aware, acknowledge, okay, this is it. Here's the tool I can use.

Right.

I wasn't given those tools when I was younger, or even—

None of us are. Yeah. None of us were.

So, like, we, we were all just juggling, like, trying to figure it out. And I think as we are given more and more tools, my goal is like, okay, I wanna share those tools with community. Right? Yeah. The, the people that I surround myself with. But you have to be willing to acknowledge and become aware first before those tools even matter.

So, yeah, you have to be open to the fact that you don't have the tools.

Yeah, and not everyone is.

Not everybody is that. Not everybody is. Um, not everybody is. So when we think of London today, yeah, what are some things you're so thankful for that she has left with you?

Gosh, so many things. Everything, honestly. There's nothing that I don't do in my day-to-day or work that I don't stop and go, wow, she taught me in the world. Honestly, I get messages all the time, get cards. We get cards all the time from people all over the world that never actually even met her in person, but were just like, she was so inspiring. And it's interesting, as a mom, I don't want to steal— I am always protective of that because people are like, oh, and then they put me, and you're inspiring too. And I'm like, no, just let her like she inspired you, and that's okay. That's enough for me. But people have said, especially as a mom and how you're going through stuff, like, you have inspired me to look at things differently and really think about the little things that I'm getting fired up about really don't matter, that kind of stuff. And I think overall, she was very aware at a very young age. She was so Yeah, she just learned so much and such. Had to, right? Yeah. It was like she was a 30-year-old in a 15-year-old body. One of the things that she wanted to do before we had been working on for a year, she loved to say, my mom is my business coach. That was so fun for her to say. She's like, because my mom's my business coach. I don't need to hire a business coach. My mom's my business coach. But she was working on a shop. And she had created these little creatures and they each had a mission, I guess. They all had their little habitat and they all had what they stood for. So she had pronouns for all of them. She would tell you the pronouns of her little creatures and then she would also share. So it was for— the three were climate change, racial injustice, and LGBTQ+. And those were her 3 main things. And her creatures that she had created, she really wanted to put those out in the world so she could speak more openly about these things. Because she's like, as a 15-year-old, people don't want to listen to these things about me. And I, I think what it, it taught me again and again was like, our youth and just people in general, like, just Humans, we have so much to give, but we have to be willing to listen and allow people to be seen and heard for who they are and that they do have a voice and what they give to the world. And I'm sad because I feel like she had so much to give to the world, but I also know that she was in a lot of pain. And so that gives me a little sense of peace, I guess. Knowing that she's not in that pain anymore. And she suffered for so long with a smile on her face.

Yes. Always saw her with a smile. And when you didn't, when you would post pictures, I always felt like there was still a smile inside.

She had so much. She believed in this world. She believed in humans. And she believed that there, you know, we we could do the right thing. And, well, there's nothing— we had deep conversations about right and wrong, even like, what does that really mean? And her and I talked about things that most people, most adults don't even talk about these days. But she was my person to really deep thought conversations. And I think that you never know what people are going through. And there's so many unseen because one of her things was when she would have hair and she wouldn't look like a cancer patient. How people spoke to her or treated her differently. But once she lost her hair or they would see that she had, you know, her PICC line in or something, it was like something switched. And she was— she said to me one day, she was like, what if we just treated everyone the way that— like the in-between of that? Because she felt like she never actually— she didn't talk about cancer a lot. She didn't like to because— and one of the reasons why I said, well, don't you want one of the creatures to give back to cancer? And she was like, I don't want to be known as the cancer kid. And what that told me was there's so many parts of us, right? Either we or others focus on one thing or a couple of things, and that makes us who we are. It was like, you know, there's so many dimensions and layers of a person and, and she would get into all of those and, and I miss that about her. But I think that, you know, there's, she's given so much. She did, she gave so much to the world and she gave it her all until the end. And, and, and it was the hardest thing, I think, unless you've been through that situation. She wanted to be with family and she didn't wanna be in the hospital. She hated the hospital.

Well, I can imagine.

Rightfully so. Like, she's been through so many things. And there was, again, a lot of things I didn't share, like things that, you know, like a lot of times we didn't know that she was, she was going to make it through. And that probably happened a good 20 to 30 times throughout the 6 years. Like, literally, we didn't know if she was going to take that next breath. And that was, I felt like that was too much for people. And so that was interesting as a mom of like, not feeling like I could totally be— share what was happening because it always felt like it was enough. It was good until it wasn't. It was too much for people. And I get it. I get it. I understand it. But that was hard. That was really, really hard because I could only share until it was comfortable for people. And then once it got past that, it was like, oh, it's too much for me. I can't be a part of that. I'm like, okay. And so I had to learn that. And it, for a little bit, put up a wall because I felt like she was too much. We were too much. It was all too much. And then when we added on, I didn't even talk about, but when I was having my daughter, we thought she was— there was a whole bunch of genetic stuff that was happening, and I couldn't share until I was like 4 months pregnant and I was really starting to show. And I couldn't share because I didn't know if we were going to be able to keep her. And just all this stuff was happening that again, I felt like, oh, I wish I could share all of this, but, and I think that's that thing of like, why can't we share it? Like it was comfortable for me to share, but I felt like it wasn't gonna, it was not, it was too much for people to be able to take in. And I get that because we all have our own experiences and own traumas and healing that we need to do. So I'm always careful about that too. Of like not pushing my trauma onto anyone else, you know, making sure they have the space for that. But I think she opened my eyes to seeing all the different layers of people, you know, and that loving those layers in all the, you know, in all the ways.

Yeah. And I bet too that in a lot of different ways, Seeing her go through that and where you, like, where life is today, um, and I'm, I can imagine your kids will have a similar perspective of life going through when they get, you know, grown up, um, seeing that we are all human beings still, right? Like, we all still have, we all have, we all still have stuff. We all still have stuff. I think the other piece that I think is important that I have started to in my own personal journey with healing is that I'm a person— I'm very much similar to you, Heather, where I'm like a giver and doing all these things. I'm also like an anticipator for people. Like, I'll curve my actions in order to like help someone else not do a thing. Like, I'm in somehow control— my therapist calls it the police. I'm the police for these other people's feelings and emotions. And then and therefore I never am able to fully be me or fully be seen. And I'm like carrying this thing. And I have found for myself personally, and kind of what you're sharing with us today with the journey of like, how much do I share? What don't I share? I'm starting to realize that it's— for me, it's the only police that I'm policing is me. Like, I can't— it's like already exhausting trying to— to police other people. And it's not from a— like, I don't want to say like I don't care about people. I don't want to say that I don't care about what they experience. No, I'm showing that compassion and things like that. But what I have found is finding ability to still show and be me without policing someone else is actually a gift to them.

Yeah, right.

And I feel like it's something that I'm— and I realize it, and, and I'm like, dang, I wish I learned this when I was 20.

Right, right. So many things I learned.

I wish I learned then. I'm like, I wish I would have went back and had this whole, like, aha epiphany. But it's hard. It is still hard. There is such an intricate piece of— especially, I think, for, for us who are women and feel that we are very much the policer of many different things. We hold things for everyone else, and it's, it's exhausting. You don't even realize it's exhausting because it's just something we've kind of embedded with. And I think when I think of London— so I'm getting to the point— when I think of London, I don't feel like she lived that way.

Hmm. I think interestingly enough, you know, I think she didn't. But then I think there were things where she questioned— I think, you know, society puts these— yeah, again, And she would— I've had conversations with her about things, and she— things that she wouldn't say in public because she was afraid for what people would think or what they would say.

Yeah.

And, um, so I think there's always that within all of us, you know. But I do believe— I call it the, you know, I was, I was just talking to my therapist about this. I feel like it's the manager. I feel like I'm a manager and as for me, as a mom, as a wife, as a business owner, as having clients, I put this pressure on myself to be able to manage everyone's emotions. And what I've continued to learn is that, Heather, you don't have to manage everybody's emotions. You just need to be in charge of yours. I can't. And it's not a controlling thing. It's just a— for me, it's I want to keep the peace.

Yes, the protector.

Yeah. And not in a way that I don't allow for discussions or arguments or things like that. That all happens. But I think for me, I just want us to be as happy as we can with the life that we have right now and the moments we have left, because we don't know how much time is left. And some people might look at that as like, oh my gosh, you're thinking about how little time you have left. And no, it's just, I think, being present, trying to be as present as I can with everyone. And sometimes that's challenging, right? Because there are so many expectations. I was just talking to my therapist today again about this, saying, Like, I just feel like we were given— this is what we are supposed to do. And when I was, you know, I'm in my 40s, so when I was growing up, it was like I could be it all. But now have all the options to be it all. I don't want to be it all. Like, I'm tired of being it all for everyone. And I think that, that— but being aware of that and knowing that, like, I don't have to be it all and don't— like, I don't I don't put that pressure on myself and allowing people to have their own feelings and their own emotions and going, you know what, I can share the tools that I have now with you, but I can't force anybody or change anybody. And so everyone's going to have to also take responsibility for themselves. Even with my children, they have to take responsibility for certain things. And so I think at the end, when I've— and this has been a lot recently too, just so you know. Now getting there, I'm like, why is this taking me so long? Like, I'll be 46 this week and I'm just like, whoa. But I think that if we step out of it and if it's almost like this exercise, if you wrote down exactly what you wanted and but then you looked at it again and you go, okay, but is that really what I want or is that something somebody else put in there? For me, it was like being an attorney. I wanted to be an attorney because my dad My dad really pushed that on me. I wanted to be an attorney, attorney, attorney, and I had it in my head. And so then I became an attorney and I hated it, but I was like, ooh, but I want to be an entrepreneur. So I thought I would own a law firm, but instead it's gotten me to this place. And so again, I think there's those dots that connect, but I also think it's me throughout the process, even when I was 24 and I was like, I'm not being a lawyer. And everyone was like, wait, what? You have so much debt and you just went through law school and you're not going to be a lawyer now? And I'm like, no. And it was that moment that, that was that first huge perspective shift is when my dad passed away. I was like, look, like he was 44 years old. Like, I don't want to wait until I'm that age to figure out, even though some of the things I'm still in, but I looked then and was like, no, this is not what I want. And yeah, I have, I have a lot of debt and there's a lot of things that come, had come with that, but I was like, I have people tell me all the time, they're like, wow, you're not a— you know, you went to law school, but you're not a lawyer. Wow. And lawyers were telling me, wow, you're the— like, you're one of the lucky ones. I want to be you. And I'm just like, but why do we make ourselves— like, why are we not allowing ourselves to choose those things? And I think because it can be really uncomfortable, because it's also not only uncomfortable with all the, like, the physical things, like the money, and like, okay, then what am I gonna do, and how am I gonna make— you know, like all those things. But it's also that that people can accept. They see it as a fail, a failure. And for me, it wasn't failing. It was just me knowing at that point, like, I didn't want to do that. And so I either had to make that shift now or be okay with living that life. And I was like, I don't want to raise a family having to work 80 hours a week, killing myself on something that I don't enjoy.

Yeah.

So like, if I'm gonna work that much, I'm gonna find something that I enjoy. Until that didn't feel good anymore, and I was like, you know what? Boom, I'm done. And not everyone can do that, and I get that. But for me, that's been that guiding light for me of, like, really look internally of what do I want? Even when I look back and go, wow, I wasn't aware at all, I still was in the fact that I was able to go, what do I want? And if I'm not happy, how can I make it different? And I think I still do that today. And sometimes I want to make those shifts for other people. Oh, they're ready.

Oh, my God.

Quicker than they're ready to, right? And it's like people just— you have to allow them to become aware, and maybe you're guiding them, but you have to allow them to have their own journey too. And so that's, you know, that's one of my things. I'm like, oh, can I just tell you exactly what you need to hear right now so we can get past all this? But it's like, no, those, those moments matter too. Those will connect the dots, and those will allow them to— especially as a coach, right— allow them to make the decisions for themselves themselves, not us make them for them.

Yeah, so many good things. So many good things. All of that, I think everything we talked about today, like parallels to how do you operate in your business as a whole person instead of a siloed person. I call it silo because we like to— yes, live in a world that's very siloed. Been in a business, to me, a sustainable business is not siloed. It's very holistic. 3 things you would add, like you would share with someone who's living with chronic illness and running a business. What are the 3 things that you would give as far as advice to making it successful for them?

Yeah, I think one really, I do this with all my clients at the beginning. I say gather your goals and desires. But the core of it has to be what do you want for your life instead of just thinking about what you want for your business. So I think you have to really go, what's going to be good for you? And that might just be in that season too. You know, seasons change. I understand, like, still, if you're living with a chronic illness, that doesn't change. But the other things that are surrounding, you know, are a part of your life, those things might change. Other things might change, which might shift the way that you have to handle things. So I think be okay with that. And so that number 1 is what I already said. Number 2 would be be okay. Yeah. What do you want? Number 2, be okay when you become aware that what I'm doing right now is not what I want.

Yeah.

And I need to shift. And people are like, well, how am I going to do that? What are my clients going to say? What are people going to say? And I think just become comfortable with being a little uncomfortable. Um, because if you're really just being you, it's gonna work out, right? But so number 2 is just, you know, make the shift when you know it, even when it doesn't logically make sense to the world. To you though, you're like, I gotta do this, because what will happen is you will be ahead of the game usually. So when you're making decisions based off of like, okay, this is how I had to make this decision because of this in my life. Other people haven't had to make that decision yet. And so you're kind of ahead of the game in that.

Yeah.

And you're not failing, right? You're just shifting. It's not a fail, it's just another point of— I could have said I failed a million times, right? Because I've shifted so many times. I don't feel like I failed at all. I feel like it just gave me more perspective as went into that next dimension or, you know, chapter of my life. I think the third one is really going back to when you're deciding anything for your business. And I do this again with my clients after we've gathered their, you know, their, their goals and their desires. When we're looking at like, you know, the, the really like business things of like their offers and their systems and How can it be simple? I always say, how can it be simple for you and your clients? Like, we make things too hard. Yes, we do. Add on all the bells and whistles when really a lot of those things aren't helping. They're just adding more. And so start with, like, what is your— if we're talking, like, really, like, business tactical stuff here, it's like, what is your core offer and how can you set that up to really work for yourself? And for your client, right? And then build your offer suite off of that.

Yeah.

But it has to be something that you like to do and that works for you. And I think so many people, you said this before, do things because it's the way they've been told, or they think that's the only way I can make money, and then they just become resentful of it. Or they're making a lot of money, they've had to hire a lot of team. It's just like all the things. And so if you don't start from that core, when you start building, you know, the offer suite, when you start putting in the systems, when you start— I think another thing is people don't come back to that, like, mindset piece. Yeah, right. There's all these things and we think that, oh, it's so linear and like, when we get to this point, we won't have this anymore.

No, it's just— it's just a different way with you and it looks bigger and it looks like a different costume, but it's still the same. It's still the same.

So know that those are going to show up and be okay with that and like, know that you're gonna have to work through that.

Yeah.

And then I think it's like things is like, you know, you're hiring, like, you have to set that, especially for businesses, I think, that you and I work with. They're not big companies. They're, they're, you know, smaller companies, maybe just with themselves or a few people. Regardless though, you set the tone for everything else, and that can feel like a lot of pressure, right? But I think you have to walk the walk. A lot of us have talked the talk, but we're not walking that walk. And so then people come in to work for us, or they're coming in as clients, and they're like, whoa, something doesn't add up here. It's like, because you're not really living what you're saying you're doing, because you're doing it for how you think people need to see you, how you have to show up, or you won't be accepted. And it's like if everyone just gave a little, even a little bit more of like, I'm gonna show up how I am and not with these masks on, everyone starts to feel okay about showing up as they are.

Yeah.

Which helps everyone. And then we're not putting all these masks on. And the masks for me in the online space is like all this, like, I gotta show up with all the, what I, you know, the clothes and the money and the, like, no, that's not what it's about. And you're missing out if that's what you continue to think that is going to allow you to have a sustainable business. It won't. You'll burn out. You'll be overwhelmed.

We're seeing it.

Feeling like you're gonna have to keep up with that, right? And that's not sustainable.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so good. Great advice. Love all of them. Love— advice I would give myself. Yeah, it's such a— it's such a, um, it's a different model to me if you run your business that way. It's more longevity in my opinion. I think you will be in the game a lot longer and you will ultimately be more profitable in all of the ways versus just the money.

Yeah. And if it's so, if, if you need the permission, I don't need to be a, you know, I shouldn't have to give you the permission, but if you need the permission, allow Nikita and I to share with you, like, being yourself and being that person that says, no, I'm not going to hustle until I drop, you know, I'm not going to have these offers that drain me And especially for people with, you know, like, there's a million— we don't got time for that.

We don't got time for that.

And we know that, but like, people just aren't saying it. So then it keeps showing up again as this mask of like, this is what it has to be like. Now is the time for us to say no, we're gonna run the things that make us feel good. It can still be really profitable, but it won't be sustainable or profitable in the long term. And I think that's the other thing. It's hard. We have to think more long term, and that's hard. Everyone wants those short-term gratification, the short right now. And I think there's some validity in that, like, to make— to, to get that momentum and to continue to go on, you have to have some of those like short-term wins. But I think if you're going to be an entrepreneur and a business owner, you have to have a long-term vision and know that that's not going to happen overnight, and know that even 10 years in things shift and change, and it's not always easy. And know that it's not linear and it's not always up, right? Nor always down, right? It's just like it's going to— and it doesn't mean that it has to be a roller coaster of ups and downs all the time. I actually think that's one— it doesn't have to be. But I think because we're not prepared and we're not really acknowledging what we need it makes it feel like that, right? Because we are going high highs and low lows, and it's like, what if we just came more to the middle, um, instead of trying to shoot for the high highs and the low lows? Um, but sometimes that's not appealing to show.

Sexy.

It's not the sexy thing, right?

So, uh, well, this has been amazing, as I thought it would be.

Um, I have loved every minute of it, so I thank you for allowing me to be a part of this.

Thank you for saying yes and sharing your story and a part of it anyway, because this is totally not all of it. So if you guys want to stay in connection with Heather and check her stuff out, she also has some cool— you have like a magazine out right now, right? Like, uh, yeah, which is really cool.

Yeah, yeah.

So tell us about how we can connect with you off, like, well, online, offline, off the show.

So everything you can find at heathercrabtree.com. So makes it easy. I'm Heather Business Coach on Instagram, which is where I usually hang out. If I'm— if you don't find me on the website, you can find me there. Yeah. But I have a free business magazine called Business Minded. I have— I also have a podcast called Your Savvy Business, and I do coaching and strategy and have lots of other things coming soon. But, um, yeah, you can find it all at heathercrabtree.com. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

That's a wrap, y'all. Thanks for tuning in to Crafted to Thrive, the podcast that helps entrepreneurs with chronic illness to thrive and build a holistic business and life. Check out our website at craftedtothrive.com for this episode's show notes and all the gifts and goodies. Connect with me on Instagram @thrive_with_nikita for more tips and behind behind the scenes, and more. Tag me to share what you loved about this episode, and I'll feature you on an upcoming episode. So until next time, remember, yes, you are crafted to thrive.