What It's Like To Be A Coach to Chronic Illness Warriors with Amy Musson

In this episode, a fellow coach and colleague of mine, Amy Kaye Musson, and I are going to talk about what is it like to be a coach for those who are living with chronic illness on our side. I thought this is such a powerful conversation because I've had so many women that I've talked on sales calls or group coaching calls, or just women that I've talked to who live with chronic illness, and the horror stories that I have heard about what they've been told without any compassion or understanding of what it's like to live with chronic illness and disability and deal with that along with deciding and choosing to grow a business is not like a one-size-fits-all approach. It is not linear. It's like a roller coaster that's on and off of its rails and you don't know where it's going sometimes. And even when you do know where it's going, you want people in that passenger seat with you who understand and give you compassion, it helps you to find and nurture those resilient tools that you have already cultivated, but to use them to help you to grow. And so in this episode, Amy and I are talking about, from my point of view, living with chronic illness and also supporting women with chronic illness, and Amy, who has her own perspective on chronic issues and growth, how does that look like for her? How has she stepped out of her uncomfortableness, to grow and be there for her clients, to grow with them, grow along with them. And why this is important for you, the listener who may be living with chronic illness, who's working with a coach or who is thinking about working with a coach, what are some things you want to pay attention to, to know whether or not you're really getting the support you need in order to grow. I have, I have loved chatting with Amy. I was on her podcast you get to hear my growth moment as a woman living with chronic illness in a very personal, real, raw way. It's probably one of my favorite episodes to date that I've recorded on someone else's podcast. It was just amazing. So I'll put the link of that in my show notes. But you're definitely going to want to tune in because Amy's personal professional coaching practice is founded on over 15 years of building and running startup companies. She's had roles ranging from Air Force officer to vice president, general manager, and company founder. She has been doing and been a part of this coaching industry since 2002 and has mentored hundreds of individuals here in the United States and Canada. Besides all that, Amy is just a beautiful person who's like so vulnerable and authentic.

It's refreshing.

Okay, so I can't wait for you to tune in. Definitely know that there are going to be some gems along the way. So stay tuned.

You're listening to the She's Crafted to Thrive podcast, and this is your host, Nikita Williams. On this show, we're talking about what it's like to start, grow, and scale a business while living with chronic illness. You will hear from other creatives and CEOs as they share their stories and the lessons that led them to learn to lean more into what worked for them. You'll discover that success does not mean perfection, and fear, negative thoughts, and challenges are all a part of the journey. But there's always an abundance of wins. So stay tuned and you'll find the inspiration and tools you need to craft a life and business that thrives. Alrighty, I am so excited to have Amy on the show. I was recently on her show and we had so much fun. So Amy, please tell us who you are, what you do, where you're from.

And all of that beautiful jazz.

I'm excited to be here because I'm all about the Nikita energy. I got to tell you, when I told you, when I see a video of yours on Instagram or a post or get your newsletter, honestly, I just big smile to match the smile that you bring to everybody. And so super joyful today. And I am Amy K. Musson. I am a growth and leadership coach. Been doing this for a while, about 20 years. And I always say I love all the growers and those ages and stages across industry, genders, diversity. I'm just fascinated with, you know, kind of like a growth junkie, I would say. And so I do that. I've always done that with one-on-one coaching. But ever since COVID the last few years, there's a lot of pieces in my ecosystem that have kind of popped up. Um, so there's a podcast for the past year that is called The Growth Moment, and then there are coaching groups, which I've been doing for a year and a half but still feel new and fresh and can't believe that I haven't been doing them all along. They're— they are a joy. And then just started a couple months ago, a monthly workshop so that again, all the growers would have access. And so I really am pleased at this moment in time that there's kind of a place for everybody, different budgets, different growth needs, and that I can just freely give without worrying about, oh, does everybody have what they need? It's kind of like, oh no, everyone's got the full table of food. Go at it.

I love that. I love that. And I have to be completely honest with you, when you first— when you— when we first met, which was in the Advance, which is a networking group, and we— I shouldn't say networking group, they probably would be like so offended that I could just call it a networking group, but it basically is that. Okay, yeah, yeah. Um, you were like, I'm a growth like expert, and I was like, okay, that sounds cool, but I was like, I have no idea. I mean, isn't everybody a growth like person? Like, in my head. And then we had our podcast interview where me and you talked and I was like, after that conversation, I was like, you know what? I am a grower. Like I do. Like I feel like I'm constantly wanting to learn something new, pushing myself. That's very much how I think. And then I realized talking to someone later on that day that no, not everybody is that way. Right?

And so I think growers take it for granted that like, well, this is what everybody does. They're always looking for not just next level, but what did I get from that? How am I going to shift? And I think it's a— I always go, I got to be careful not to be biased against, quote, non-growers, because sometimes my husband is always known for saying, good Lord, Amy, do we have to grow today? Like, no, I'm sorry. So be more cognizant of not pushing that growth mindset. 24/7 on everybody around me. I, I— but yeah, not everybody— that's not a value of everyone's.

Wow. Well, I, I am excited to get into this conversation and kind of learn more about how did you end up in this role and like this path in life.

So I was originally 17 years in high-tech startups computer science background, you know, a lot of business, and there's a lot of growth there. So you can see kind of the connection. And then 9/11 happened and the dot-com bubble burst. So kind of those two converging factors. I was still working in the, in the internet world, but increasingly disenchanted by the smoke and mirrors of that time. Hey, let's just jazz up a bunch of stuff so it looks like we're really fancy and then someone will buy us. And it was the underlying value set increasingly, um, was not about the kind of growth I was interested in. And so I made a pivot and it was a calling and a gut instinctive feel. It wasn't logical. I just said, you know, I met a couple people who said they were coaches. That seems really Interesting. Didn't even really know what it was. And I said, okay, I'm going to start coach training. And my boyfriend at the time, now husband, was like, oh, but then you'll get your real job. I'm like, no, no, I'm doing this. And so it was— I trained with Coaches Training Institute way back in 2002, did a master's in counseling psychology because I knew nothing about really, you know, human development theory and psychology coming from the tech world. And so it was, I started coaching right away with friends and family and acquaintances and network and never looked back. So since 2002, I have been in this incredible field that I'm grateful for every day.

Right? Because I feel like, as coaches, you— like, you— like, speaking of growing, that's what the coaching world is. It's like, it's growth, right?

And it is my— I think it is my spirit, the core of my spiritual practice, if you will. You know, people say, do you meditate? I'm like, no, I coach. Because that is— it continually calls me to be my best self, to step up, to be in integrity, to walk my talk, to go, wow, that piece a client was working on, boy, and you're a little shaky on that ground. You better go get your britches in order. And so I continually— it's not about upping a game or again of achievement so much as continually being called to be my true self.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So with that, with all of that experience— and I think it's really cool that you have a tech background just because I'm married to a techie guy, and so I'm like, oh, that's cool, I didn't think I realized that from before— how has this path affected or been a part of your life dealing with any challenges, life hurdles, health challenges. Has that come up, or have you ever had to support someone while you're growing your business and doing this beautiful— Oh, God.

Big both and there, Nikita, because I would never claim that I've had the kind of chronic health challenges that you and your clients grapple with and overcome and work with. But I've had a handful of my own. You and I were talking about the the recent vertigo attacks that I'm having are absolutely tied to the, quote, instability in the world and, and in some aspects of my life. In a different way than a chronic health challenge, I dealt with addiction a ways back. And so I've been 17 years plus sober. And again, so, but that's a little different kind of a piece. But I would say—

I would almost say that— I would almost say not really. I think there's a bit of it that I think it's the same grappling of just like dealing with that mindset. I mean, yeah, it's definitely chronic. It's not like gone away. Like now that it's been 18 years, oh, I'm good. Like it's a constant.

It's a maintenance piece. It's a mindfulness piece for sure. Um, and I think what also comes up is it's not my coaching niche, but I mean, as I'm thinking past the last 20 years, so many clients who've had chronic health challenges.

Yeah.

And, and so it's interesting looking at that from the lens of what kind of support and growth is similar to other clients. But actually very different.

Yeah.

So for sure, a real chunk of clients.

Yeah. And I would— I've— I, I find, like, for myself and my clients, like, who live with chronic pain and chronic— whether that's mentally or emotionally or physically or all of them, right— that there is a different type of growth you have to step into when you are dealing with a chronic limitation or chronic challenge with your health than someone who's like, oh, I had a random life event that just happened today that might affect me for, like, 2 or 3 months.

And now we've overcome it, and now we're moving past it.

Right.

It's the not that you can't necessarily break free from that gravity. And I think one of the biggest, because honestly, those clients can sometimes be my biggest challenge and my biggest growth because I'm such an upward trajectory kind of person. Like, okay, let's make it better. I have been accused once in a while of some toxic positivity. Yeah, really hard to work on. And, and so I think I avoided— for sure, one of the reasons I didn't become a therapist and didn't continue after I did that master's into the therapy track. So I'm like, I want to work with people who are going up, up, up, right, in a way. And so all that pain and sadness and holding of that space, it's not a challenge for me in the short term. It's what you're talking about. It is the ongoing nature of pain and suffering. I mean, all of a sudden I'm like, okay, her body physically.

Okay, we got to go there.

Yeah, but at the same time, it's where I need to grow is in learning the techniques and holding that space for— it's not about fixing it. It's not about— it's the being with. The holding space, the letting go of the judgment of the pace of growth, as you started to point to, those are a few things that really stand out to me. And witnessing and honoring.

Yeah, that part. That part I find You know, I'm not trying to cover it up, right? Right.

Or over it of like, oh, you'll be fine. Well, let's go to the next doctor. Or let— but the sitting in the— the— I'm using my Nikita Williams profanity— sitting in the mud.

Yeah.

With someone.

Yeah.

And it's hard. I find like— and I think it is harder for people in general to understand what that actually means. Like, like, technically, yes, let's go sit in the mud with each other, great. But you might be sitting in the mud with her or him and thinking, when are we getting out of the mud? And she doesn't have that choice, right?

Right there it is, right, right there. That's my growth point, my, um, of— and I had had a friendship end, not acrimoniously, but where that person with chronic issues of various kinds was finding that I couldn't find my way to be there in the right way as a friend. And learned so much from that because I think in many ways it was of a lack of, of, um, God, I want to say, gosh, depth in some ways, or, and awareness.

Yeah.

Of what it's like to not have that choice.

I think there's also some vulnerability too. I feel like to let yourself feel what that could be like is almost like Like, it's almost like unbearable to think what your life would be like if that was your life, you know what I'm saying? Like, I find that looking into my client's eyes, we have a language. Like, we have a language without even saying it that we understand. But at the same time, you know, having other people in your corner who don't understand that, but aren't really ready in a place for themselves to go to the thought of that being— that it could be their reality— could not sit with you very long. Right, exactly. Right. Yeah, yeah. So for your clients who you've been working with in their growth, which is so interesting because I find that as challenging as that is, you still take them— but you're still taking them on and continue to grow with them.

I think each of them, and maybe varying levels, would say that our work was profound and that I didn't just happy talk them into some kind of next steps. And that I think on the flip side, my fervent, fierce belief in possibility for people, yes, even if it's small, even if it's that I'll sit in the dark with them but never give up on finding the light.

Yeah.

So the light might not be full function or healing or I'm better, I'm done.

Yeah.

I think that's where my learning has come, Nikita, is that changing my view of what the light is, that it's not about leaving behind all this pain and suffering. It is It is finding the new way to be with it. It's finding, you know, the meaning of being in the concentration camp, or, you know, the way to— I often think of people who've inspired me who have been in horrible circumstances and somehow find their way forward, whatever that looks like.

Yeah.

Whatever that looks like. My beautiful cousin died of ALS, and such a horribly unfair disease, robbing you of so much. And every moment that— weren't all moments, but every moment that I saw her live in the midst of that, you know, again, was an inspiration of even if it was the smallest piece. But also now I think after her death, I have more, I don't know, grace or respect for all the moments where she didn't move forward, where she was devastated.

Yeah.

By her illness. Yeah.

Yeah, it does put it in a different perspective when you— when it's someone you— when you love, someone's really close to you, you can see it differently, but not, not as differently as like living it, but you can feel it. And so when you can see what happens or how it affected someone's life in such a huge way as a coach, and I know for myself Even though I live with chronic illness, I have clients that have things that I'm like, I don't even— I'm just like, okay, uh, right, let's be in this with you. And it does take, um, it does take, uh, I don't even know what the word is, it just takes space, right? It just takes space. And I think that any coach, and I feel like this message or this, this conversation we're having, because I've had clients who've come to me who are, who've been burned unfortunately by coaches or other people who are like, just push through it, or the positive, you know, all of those things, and they are feeling like they're not enough or they haven't done— oh my God, I know, my heart. Yeah. And it's like, it's like, that's That's not true. You, you're more than enough. That's also a thing that I've talked about in the past, this idea about paying dues. A lot of the things that women in general, right, just in general, women in general are constantly called to do more than. Yeah, right. And the growth I feel, and I don't know if you feel the same way, especially for my ladies who are living with chronic illness, is finding that growth can happen in the stillness, right? It can happen in the quiet. It can happen in the bed underneath the pillows. It can happen in those moments because of what's going on in your mind.

Well, and then you're pointing to the, you know, the being aspect of growth versus the doing, accomplishing, achieving part of growth. And I think that's of my unfolding over these— my whole life, but the 20 years in the industry— is having more space and respect and honoring of the being growth. And that so often I always say, hey, being first, doing second.

Love that.

And so exactly what you say there, Nikita, that can happen under the covers. And for me, oh my goodness. And that's why so many of your episodes, I'm like, oh yes, I needed that. I don't have a chronic illness, but everybody needs to listen to Nikita Williams Williams. And just your recent newsletter, same thing. It's when I get still, when I stop, when I stop pushing, when I say, Amy, you've done enough, drop the self-judgment, the self-criticism, the inner critic's never-ending expectations, and I can let go and sleep in the middle of the day because I'm really tired.

Yeah.

And then, you know, of course get up and go, oh, duh, I have a new perspective. I have a different take. I'm able to see something that I wasn't able to see. And I think the more that I develop internally and walk my talk and do my own work, yeah, the more grace I have for my clients and space for them to grow in just the right way instead of me— am I delivering value? Are my clients getting enough? Yeah.

So I'm curious about something you said earlier about these clients that live with chronic illness and they're coming to you for growth, what are they, what are they coming to you for growth for? Like, what is it, what is the thing that says Amy is the one that is gonna help me get to wherever that is? I'm, I'm, I am assuming, and I could be wrong, that these are very high achieving people who are already doing great things but they're also dealing with—

want to do great things. Okay. And not great things. It's the want to become more of themselves, want to live that purpose that they feel they have. So they're definitely not coming to me to, quote, get better or to— it's there's impact I want to have. There's things I want to fulfill in my potential. And I don't want to be stopped. And so I think that's, you know, they come in the end to go, can we together, within my constraints, within my paradigm, you know, them being the client, can we find a way? Yeah, I'm really good at never giving up. Well, you fit right in with this chronic crew, you know, a fierce you know, passion and desire to keep walking with them and to not go, well, you're not walking very fast, so I guess I'm going to run ahead. See ya. It's like, oh, okay, I got to slow myself. I don't mean that literally, but I got to go match pace. Yes. But I don't care how long it takes and take the rest of your life and we might not ever get there, but all I'll journey with you.

Yeah, I love that.

I'll journey with you.

That needs to be on a shirt, um, for all coaches. I'll journey with you. I love that.

That's what we're all doing.

Yeah, it really is. Um, what are some of the personal challenges you've had to overcome in this journey?

Um, one big one that comes to mind is, and I'm this is such a work in progress, is dealing with failure, dealing with my judgment about failure inside myself. The times in my life where I've held back because I don't want to fail, I don't want to look bad, I don't want to be vulnerable at that level. And this, you know, this goes in my marriage, this goes in my day-to-day life, and certainly in my professional career. And constantly working on reframing failure, of course, for my clients, says, hey, babe, this is just a growth moment. This is just an opportunity to learn. You can't grow without failure. Can't learn without failure. That is probably the hardest thing for me to live up to. That approach. My old tendencies had been to kind of shut down or shut off a part if I failed in an area. Well, let's just close that door and never open it again, and we won't go back. That's why I never did sports. I could not handle— it's not losing from a competitive sense, not being good enough. Is a really tough one for me, you know. So that, that's an ongoing challenge that I would like to think, as almost 57, that I've gotten better.

Yeah, I was gonna ask you, how— what have you been doing to reframe that for yourself?

So much of it is the self-permission. Is literally permission slip to fail, encouragement to myself to use all my coaching tools of, hey, this is just an experiment. We'll see what it goes, and then we'll try something else. As opposed to that binary 1 or 0. It's either you succeeded or you failed. Finding the gray, finding all those shades in between is very helpful to me. And the idea that building blocks. Yeah. Oh, I tried that and it didn't work. Cool. But that's a little block that I can stand on because I know I'm always— what do you know now? What did you learn? What would you do differently? What else does that make you want to try? Kind of the present forward.

Yeah.

I always say with my clients, I'm not a therapist, so we're not going to go heavy delving into your past, but we'll go grab stuff from your past to inform present forward. And so learning to do that for myself, as opposed to kind of sitting in past year's failures and and not moving past them, you know, getting stuck there, getting stymied there.

Yeah, I think that's a good one. I love the gray illustration, seeing all the different colors of the gray, right? Because—

or not even gray, but like all the color.

I like all the color, right?

Yeah, colors in between.

Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know why when you said gray though, I was thinking there are— if we think about just going to the paint store and looking at the different shades of gray, they're literally literally different.

At least hundreds.

Yeah, hundreds. Like, so many. And they— some of them will make you feel like, oh, that's actually not so gray. I like that. That looks pretty. Or I like the way that softness— and I find your frame, Nikita, softness.

Yeah, softness.

Not—

it's not this harsh dichotomy.

Yeah. So I love that you shared that because I do think a lot of us deal with that thought of failure, of like Oh goodness. I know, I— for myself, I know, especially as a coach, you're, you're looking, you're like, I could tell this to my clients all day long, but Lord have mercy, why can't I get this together?

Right, right. And that's, that's why I'm only as good a coach as I am working on myself.

Yes.

That's why I have a coach. It's why I do all kinds of self-growth. It's why I am constantly hopefully lovingly pushing myself to, to keep going, to keep trying. Um, because how could I possibly bring anything to my clients if it's all talk?

Yeah. So you run a business full of lots of things, lots of people. And, you know, one of the things I've come to love about Amy is that she, like, works with people in different industries and everything. It's not really Niche. Yeah, like she's not niched down. Her only, I guess if you were to say quote unquote niche, is she wants to work with people who are ready to do the work to grow, right? And I feel like, how do you find harmony in your life and business running those, you know, running those different facets of that and you growing as a person?

And I think, I mean, that's what's been the incredible challenge since COVID is because I dialed up my business, I had this crazy comfortable halftime practice the whole time I was a coach, was raising my son, finishing the master's, doing different things. And so I always worked about 15 to 20 hours a week. It was a sweet setup, and for a variety of reasons, it was right for me after COVID hit to go full time. One of the challenges that I've had is that it was kind of old corporate Amy or startup Amy showed up to that full-time challenge instead of Coach Amy. And so where, you know, slipped back into some very old patterns and almost limiting beliefs about you got to work really hard and you got to work all night and you got to bust your butt and all of these things. And so Honestly, balance has been a big problem that I'm actively working on with my Coach, and I would say I have made some drastic improvement, but I have quite a ways to go this year to balance effort, to balance money, to balance Why am I doing this anyway? Don't lose the passion and the beauty because you're doing it too much.

Yeah.

So I would say my balance is— and hence why I'm saying the vertigo should not have been a shocker. I'm sure there's other physical aspects to it and different things, but the emotional one I'm clear on is I literally am out of balance. I'm working too hard, working too much, and trying to bring that into line. But here's the rub. Someone will ask me, well, what do you love to do? What are your hobbies? What are you really passionate about? I'm like, coaching. And well, what would you do if you weren't working? Coach. And it's not, quote, coach. It's have deep, meaningful conversations, be down in there. And so it makes me ill-suited to parties. And because I don't drink, combine that with I don't like shallow.

I don't like that.

It has been a challenge for me to find things in, quote, real life that are as rich, as meaningful, soul-stirring in some ways. You know, as coaching, or, you know, that kind of interaction with someone.

I think this is a really important thing, and I know we don't have much time, but I think what you just said there is— I feel that as coaches, it is such a deep work that we're doing. I mean, it's— it lights up all of the parts of our brain.

I mean, it's like—

exactly, it feels so important. Yes. And I think, and what I have found for myself, is that I lose my kind of like gum, like my go or my gr with it when I haven't taken the time to find my inner— I think we've talked about this in the, in the episode, like my inner thing that fills my cup, that's not me fill That's not the work. That's not the work, right? And so for me, that's crucial for me. And that's something I work with my clients too, because like you as a coach is like, yes, that's what I do for women who live with chronic pain. That's all we think about. That's the thing that's constantly in our mind. So it's like a very interesting parallel of most coaches I talk to, they're like, I just coach. That's what I love to do. That's the thing I do. I'm really good at it. I enjoy it. I learn about it. I take all the courses.

I'm reading about it.

Right.

It's all around that.

And it's like, what I have found for myself and for my clients is that to find some inspiration and that passion spark again is that we have to find— we have to find something outside of that that sparks a different shift, right? And I think that is a different aspect. Yeah. And I think it's really— that's why people joke with me all the time because they're like, what hobby are you trying now?

I'm like, uh, because you have all of these cool you know, kind of potpourri of cool hobbies that you play with and are incredibly creative. And I actually, as I've learned that about you, I've been thinking, I don't know, I don't even have answers yet or ideas, but it would be cool to find some stuff to try.

Yeah, I think so.

That are very out of my comfort zone or just very different for me to light up a different part of my heart and my brain. Would be really good medicine.

Yes, I love that. I love that. So we already kind of— I think you feel already know the answer to this question, like, what inspires you?

What inspires me? I mean, yes, at the heart of humans inspire me. And that's why my anti-stubborn, anti-nicheness is so true because I really do have this deep love of all the humans. I think they're miraculous and fascinating. And you could give me anyone. I always say, give me anyone, stick them in front of me, and I'd coach with them because to start with, tell me more about you, and what about this, and what about that? And so it's like this never-ending opening of a soul that I could never get tired of. So that just the reality of humanness.

Yeah.

With all the foibles and weaknesses and vulnerabilities and strengths absolutely inspires me. And nothing inspires me more than sometimes I was doing a workshop this week with one of my corporate clients and had this team of engineers and they're from all over the world. And super smarty-pants people, PhDs and all these different things. But there were just all these faces in my Zoom, and I just had this giddy moment of at the beginning, I'm like, oh my God, I love all these people. I don't even know them, but look at them. How awesome are these humans? That's my— is just being in front of the people I have this huge smile just thinking about it. And dogs. Dogs inspire me. Hey, dogs inspire me because of the unconditional joy and love. And, you know, if I could be more like a dog, I think I'd be a better human instead of the other way around. So that inspires me as well. As well. And more moral courage, emotional courage, not so much physical, but it's that courage to go into areas that we don't feel comfortable because we want to experience and be more. Anybody who's doing something like that blows me away.

I love that. Well, this has been so amazing. I would love if you were to share one practice of growth, like one tool, one shift? Someone might be, you know, they're listening to this and you know my crowd of people. What would be one thing you would share with them that could—

I mean, I'm tempted to say it's the self-love thing, um, but I think it's the both/and thing would be the one tool is Anyone who coaches with me maybe gets sick of me saying, well, what's the both and there? So whenever we're in that either or place of, well, I can take care of myself and my illness, or I can— how can you have both and? Not because it's a magic solution, but literally it lights up a different part of your brain. The either or is one part. The both and is the union, the combo. And it sets your brain to going, oh, well, what would that look like? That is probably my all-time favorite tool that has never failed me.

Yeah, I love that. That's something I talk with my clients with too. It's satisfying, right? Like when you realize, oh, it's almost like, wait, I could have both?

No one told me I can be creative and make money. I didn't know those two could go together. Yeah, I can have peanut butter and chocolate.

Awesome. I love it. Well, how can we find you and support you?

So thegrowthmoment.com is where I house my podcast and monthly workshops. Amykcoaching.com is kind of where everything else is, and those two might merge at some point, but type in either one and you're going to find me. And of course, the podcast is on all the usual places— Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, blah blah blah. And if any of the listeners are interested, Nikita Williams, in a, you know, like a discount on one of the workshops, just email me and I'll send you a code and would love to see you there. And, you know, so always happy to welcome people in to just just, you know, have a growth moment.

I love it. Thank you so much, Amy. We'll have all of the information on the show notes, but thank you so much for being here with me.

Nikita, you are a gift. There's no doubt about that. You are, um, such a bright light, and I know your listeners and your clients are, are just so grateful to be journeying with you. So thank you for sharing yourself.

All right, y'all, that's a wrap. Thank you for listening, and I hope this conversation inspired you. Be sure to visit craftedtothrive.com to check out our show notes, connect with our guests, and grab some of those goodies. Join us for the next episode, and in the meantime, remember, yes, yes, yes, you are crafted to thrive with me today. You're awesome. Thank you.