Where Should You Start Selling Online First?

Welcome back to the She's Crafted to Thrive show. I am here today to share a conversation that I recorded live with Dani from The Handmade Seller Magazine. We are talking about where should you start selling, like online. Should it be on Instagram, Facebook, Etsy, Squarespace, Shopify? Where are the places that you should start selling your beautiful makes and art and your creative things that you do? Where should you take that Product-based business and start selling, and we answer some questions live. This is a pre-recording that we did live on Instagram, and the reason why I'm repurposing this content, because I totally and completely recognize that not everything I do on Instagram you guys actually get a chance to listen to, and you might not even see or go scroll through all of my content that I do there. So I thought, why don't I start working a little bit smarter and then have this be a piece of valuable content that you can find advantageous for your, your journey. The other beautiful thing about these conversations that I love about Dani from The Handmade Seller Magazine is that we vibe off of each other really well. We have a very similar way of thinking when it comes to marketing and growing your business and things like that. And we're also hearing and getting energy or questions from other people who are listening to the live. So we're sharing our ideas, we're answering questions. So this is a live, if you will, coaching and conversation that I feel like that Dani and I are going through. So you get to experience that here, right here on the show. So stay tuned to hop in, and remember that this is a live recording that has been edited-ish to fit this podcast. All right, can't wait to hear what you think, so stay tuned. Welcome to She's Crafted to Thrive. I'm your host Nikita Williams, and this show is for all the ladies who are making and creating things that they love. You will hear conversations about real everyday struggles of juggling life and business while trying to maintain passion and harmony. As women, we have the skill of getting things done, but sometimes we get in our own way. It's here where you'll see that you're not alone. You'll discover that success does not mean perfection. Fear and negative thoughts and challenges are all a part of the journey. And on this podcast, you'll find the inspiration and tools you need to have a life and business that thrives. All right, this is just a real quick interruption before we hop into this pre-recorded live that we did. I want to say a huge thank you to The Handmade Seller Magazine, Miss Dani, the owner, because without her, this episode probably wouldn't have been as awesome. We are so excited to have this episode, but I'm more excited to have Handmade Seller Magazine as a sponsor of the show. You can go to handmadedseller.com and look at and learn from artisans from around the world and be a subscriber of this digital magazine where you can read inspirational business stories from handmade sellers, like I said, from all over the place and learn tips of the trade and get updated, um, tips and industry news and get fresh ideas for the upcoming month for your marketing or for your next market or whatever it is that you're doing in your handmade seller business. So if you would like to support her and join her tribe as well, please go to handmadeceller.com and use the coupon code She's Crafted to get 15% off. Okay, now let's hop in.

Hello everyone. Today we are talking with The Handmade Cellar. Today she is Dani, the owner and co-founder of Handmade Cellar. She is the owner of that beautiful subscription magazine that you get every month with new makers and all of that jazz. Hey Alicia! And all of that. So I'm going to have her on where you're going to be talking about where you should start selling online. So good to see you.

You too, as always.

But I am so excited because you have so much to share, and like, you have so many goodies. You've also like have literally talked to so many women in the handmade maker place, like the industry. So I know you have a lot to share, and I know this isn't necessarily your happy comfort zone, but more bearable. So welcome. Well, I wanted to answer a question that we think that a lot of you guys have asked or have thought about, which is where should you start selling your beautiful creations online? Like, where should you start? Etsy, Instagram, Facebook, your own website, and all of that jazz. So I'm actually gonna let Dani start us off and let us know where she thinks that should be.

Okay, so I actually recently opened an Etsy shop, for those of you who didn't know, but I've been an online entrepreneur for like 15 years. So originally, how I did it originally was I actually did start building a website and I wasn't going to sell on Etsy. I was just going to skip that because I'd already had all the experience with, you know, websites and stuff like that. But I ran into an interesting problem that I was not expecting. This is my first time as a business owner, like, shipping products myself. And so when I got to the shipping part of setting up my e-commerce store, I got really confused. Like, I wasn't sure how to set it up because I didn't really understand, like, the discount rates and, like, how to calculate everything and all that. So that actually got me thinking that I should start on Etsy for a number of reasons, but just because when you're, when you're learning something new, a website like Etsy really holds your hand through the entire process, especially the e-commerce process. And I was really surprised because I had an Etsy shop back in like 2015 for a few months, but now it's way different. Like it's so easy. Like there's prompts for everything. Like, like you enter one thing and it pops up a question like, do you want to do this next?, and it was like so intuitive. It just like carried you through the whole process. And through that, I learned how to do shipping. And so now if I want to go and do a website, it would totally be easier for me. But I also recommend Etsy as a place to start because people can find your products there. Obviously there's free traffic. Basically, if you're not running ads, it gives you a place to send your customers to buy your products. If you're like, posting on Instagram or something like that. And another reason why I recommend it is the cost. In the beginning, you know, you probably want to invest more in your supplies so that you have creative freedom to make what you want to make, and you don't necessarily want to be bogged down with all of the website fees, especially if it's going to take you a couple months to make the website, which happens sometimes. And the cool thing about starting on Etsy too is that you can go ahead and buy the domain name for your business, which I recommend because that's really hard to pick out. And they're almost all of your ideas, I guarantee, are going to be taken at first. And you just forward that domain name to your Etsy shop. And then when you do your videos and your marketing material, you know, like you can be like, hey, I'm Dani from GlossyPatterns.com. And when you do go to, you know, someday open your website, nothing's changing. All of your materials is still accurate. It's still that domain name. And now it's just your website people are going to instead of Etsy.

Yeah. Yeah. So I love that you're bringing it up, like specifically, like when you're first starting, because I think like it can feel like really overwhelming just starting to pick up a craft, or even if you've been doing it for a long time, you've decided now that you want to sell it. Now I have to do something on a website. Like, it can feel extremely overwhelming. So having platforms like Etsy can really help you kind of just get your feet wet, I believe, to kind of like you were saying, know, like, what is all the things I need to know? In general, you're not doing it by yourself. So I didn't realize that Etsy allows you to do like they have a prompt. I don't think they've always been that way. I think way back when, when I had ventured into Etsy world, it was not that simple. No, no, but it's kind of progressed into being more simple for people.

Yeah, no, I was very, very impressed. Like, I thought they actually did a better job with a lot of the website than like, you know, like Wix and Weebly and Squarespace. They have prompts too and they help you, but I thought Etsy did— blew them out of the water. I was very impressed.

Yeah, and I think the other cool thing is that when you're first starting, to me, this is a great place, like, to start on Etsy is a great place to test whether or not your item is actually something that people want. And it's like in a marketplace that people are already going to, they're already flocking to. You don't have to worry too much about traffic, but you do have to, you know, set yourself up in a way that people find you. But to me, it's a lot easier because you're in a marketplace place. And starting in a standalone corner on website, you know, for it's like for Squarespace or wherever you create it and hope someone finds you, that's a little bit more difficult.

It is, yep. And it's— and to add to that, it's a platform that's specifically for handmade shoppers. So people that are going there are already expecting to spend a little bit more, whereas if you were to sell on Amazon it's a little bit different. That audience has a completely different mindset when they're going— and it could be someone who shops on Etsy and Amazon like me. I shop on both, but your mindset is just a little bit different when you go on Amazon. You instinctively are almost looking for the lower prices, and that's really bad for an artist, right? We don't want that, right?

Yeah, it's a— I love that you brought out that point about mindset, because, you know, I'm all about the mindset. But yeah, it is a different buying experience, a different thought process behind where you start. And even for you as the, like, the new person, like, I still— I know Etsy is huge, but it's just like, it's huge with a whole bunch of people that are like-minded like you, versus Amazon is like anyone and everybody and whoever can sell it cheaper. And Etsy, it's like everyone is like knowing, like, look, these are handmade items, and we are all like artists. We're trying to build our businesses based on that versus like, you know, the anybody just throw and buy something on Amazon. Not to knock Amazon because I'm a buyer of Amazon, but when I am looking for something one of a kind or very unique, I go to Etsy. And I know, I know right off, right off the bat I'm gonna be paying more because it is worth it because it's being handmade by someone. So that's really cool that you brought that part out about the mindset behind that.

Yeah, yeah, it's really important to be in the right marketplace. It makes a difference.

Yeah, and the— and the good— here's something I wanted to mention too, is like when you're just starting, this is a good place to just start. Now, should you stay only on Etsy when you just start? I don't think so. I think you can start to like diversify where you are and where you can be found, but if you're first just like your first crack baby out of like getting out there and trying everything, then yes, I think Etsy is probably the safe place to start. What about Instagram? Because I know Instagram— what do you— I know you, Dani, has been in the Instagram world and has seen massive growth for her glassy beautiful creations. So how's that been for you? Because technically, even though you've been in this industry for a minute, The doing it this way, like with your own handmade, is like brand new. So how's that experience?

Honestly, it's been really great. And anyone I talk to, I like if they're asking me, you know, for the handmade industry, what social media platform should I begin on? I really recommend Instagram because it's public. I mean, Facebook is too, but as a Facebook business page, you are not found organically anymore. So you have to run ads. Instagram, I mean, you can run ads, and as you know, I have been, but you can still be found without running the ads. You can build relationships with people, you can chat with them. Whereas like if a business page were to send a message to some random person on Facebook, that would be a little weird. Instagram is more of a community, so it gives you a place to be found publicly, and just all you have to do is post your pictures. Anyone can just post pictures. If you don't feel like saying a lot in the beginning, you really don't have to. And Pinterest is more of like a search algorithm rather than a social media platform, and it's really great to be on there, but it's not really a place to build relationships in the same way. So I love Instagram because of the public nature of it. It just gives you a way to just throw your stuff out there and start, and you can link to your, you know, Etsy shop in your profile or your website domain name that's forwarding to your Etsy shop, which is what I do. So it's just a really good, easy place to start and honestly to really grow. I mean, because obviously there's accounts that, you know, have thousands and thousands of followers and they do very well, and I know that they're only on Instagram, right?

And the cool thing about Instagram is that you really can build a community. Like, if you're consistently showing up and whatever— when I talk about consistency, you guys, I don't mean like showing up every day, multiple times a day. It just means whatever consistency looks like for your reality is what I mean by that. But if you're showing consistently and, you know, really engaging with people, you're creating a community of people who will follow you wherever you go or share with their people wherever you go. And that's the cool thing about Instagram is that you literally can share whatever you like with whoever it is that you want to share that with. I think that's something we were talking about in our recent podcast together about, you know, realizing that people— you can post something and then they can share it to their audience. Like, talk about marketing on, you know, steroids. It's like you really get around to meeting other people and different things like that a lot quicker than, say, Etsy. There is that disadvantage, I think, on Etsy because you can't really grow a community on Etsy. You're kind of— that's just where people go to shop, but you really need community on Instagram to find you on Etsy. So that's kind of like if you're going to start your business, those two kind of link well together. It's not just like a one-stop shop, Etsy, but it's a great place for you to begin and then incorporate building that community on a social media platform that you're comfortable with. But Instagram is built for that. Like Instagram is literally built for you to share your content or your product and people find you and buy. Like, totally. Yeah.

And, and an extra added bonus to using Instagram and Etsy together is that if you are sending traffic from Instagram to Etsy and those people are buying, then Etsy will then start sending you traffic on their end as well because their algorithm will pick up on the fact that people are viewing your product and buying your product and then they will start testing your product on their own audience with the assumption that their own audience will also be interested in your product. Because I was getting 30% of my sales from Etsy on a brand new shop, and I know that that was only because my Instagram followers were buying from me. Whereas if I hadn't been sending that traffic, the algorithm works in a way that it would have been much slower. Like, they probably would have sent, you know, people to me to test it out, how it goes. But if those people didn't initially buy, it probably would have taken me a while to build up my reputation, so to speak, on Etsy to where the algorithm is now sending me people regularly because they know they'd be interested in what I'm selling.

Yeah, wow, that's— I didn't realize that about Etsy. That's pretty cool. There was someone in here, I think Etsy Accounting, was saying they love you guys.

Oh, he's great.

That is so cool. So what, as like, maybe not as a new person, maybe say you kind of have dabbled into the Etsy world, like starting up, how many products should someone put up? Like, should they put up a lot? Should they start with just a few? What, what would be your recommendation for someone who's just starting?

Well, first off, let me start with the disclaimer that Really, you should do what you want to do. But if we're going for the maximum impact right out of the gate, I would recommend like 10 listings with, of course, really good— so you need to look up the keywords for all your SEO stuff, make sure that you're using keywords in your listings and descriptions and tags that people are searching for so that you do have a higher chance of showing up in their algorithm. The other thing you can do right out of the gates is you can try out the Etsy ads for like a dollar a day, maybe run that for a week, just because that is going to get you more traffic right away, which is then going to help the algorithm better understand who likes you, who to send to you, and who's likely to buy from you. Whereas if you don't run the ads, it's all organic and it could take you know, an extra month or so for you to really start showing up on the search pages.

Okay, okay. So yeah, so 10 postings. I've heard so many different things, and you're so right, do what you want to do, but like, do what you want to do. I'm all about that. I'm like, you know, yeah, that's a whole nother live on another conversation.

Yeah, I mean, I've seen shops with $5,000 sales and they have 2 listings. I mean, there's no magic number. It's just you want your shop to, for the buyer's sake, you want your shop to look somewhat full, not full, but you know, it looks stocked and more listings of course gives you more chances to show up in the search, but you also don't want to get so caught up in all the things you should do that you're producing products that aren't awesome or that you're not having fun with or anything like that. So I mean, if you have 5 products that you just absolutely adore and you don't have time to create more and you just want to start getting some sales trickling in, throw them out there. It's okay. It does not have to be perfect right away.

Yeah, yeah, that is definitely great advice. I think like, so when I was thinking about this today, I was like, I hate using the word should. Like, like, it's like, I mean, it's— that's subjective. Like, do what you want to do. Like, even if you're listening to this, you're like, yeah, I don't agree. Great. Like, like, do what works for you. But I think sometimes, like, when you're first starting, you can get in your head a lot. And you're also taking in a lot of information of what other people are telling you to do. You're probably reading, like, all the blog posts and all of the YouTube channels on how you should, quote unquote, do whatever on Etsy. And I think if you're going into this for the long haul, like, if you've decided that this is not just a hobby, but this is really what you want to make into like a business, your journey is going to look different than the person next to you. Like, it's just going to be— it's going to be different and your audience is going to be different. So you can't say one particular way of doing something is going to fit you because your audience may not want that that way. So it's a lot of testing the journey versus like a dash. There's that. Macrame says, do you have any advice about ads? Do you mean on Etsy or on Instagram or both? That would be my clarifying question for that, but—

Well, I can tell you what my experience was with Instagram ads and Etsy ads just briefly, because that might touch on the question there. So Etsy ads work in a way that they— it's automated. All you do is set your budget. You don't even pick which listings. You just turn on the ads and that's it. So I would only recommend doing— well, I don't want to throw a bunch of shoulds out there. If you're totally new, go ahead and give them a try. I personally don't like them because if you run an ad like that and somebody sees your ad and just keeps scrolling past on Etsy, that money's lost. You didn't get anything out of it, it's gone. Whereas if you run an ad on Instagram, which your Instagram links to your Etsy. If you run an ad on Instagram and somebody doesn't buy from you but they follow you, that money wasn't lost. Or even if they just like your post, because when you get a like, it also helps you out with the Instagram algorithm because you're getting engagement. So I feel like your money is far better spent when you're spending it on Instagram because you're getting likes, follows, saves, shares, and purchases. Whereas on Etsy, you're either getting a purchase or nothing, or maybe a shop— someone favors your shop or something like that. But for the most part, if somebody doesn't buy from you on Etsy, that money is then thrown out. But on Instagram, you're going to get more out of it.

Yeah, I had a client a couple— oh, it's been a year ago, and she had an ex Etsy and Instagram and her own website. She had the three trifecta, if you will. And, you know, Etsy sometimes will decide to push your, your content out or use it as an ad if you're getting that kind of engagement, right? And, or it's a very popular item that a lot of people are there seeing being, being very popular or trending. They'll push your, your particular profile portfolio out. But what she did that was really smart was that when she noticed that she added and she created an ad in Instagram that even pushed it even more from her audience. One of those months that we were really working to help her reach a $10K month, and she reached it in 2 months, like in 2 weeks. And it was just because Etsy had already decided, they were like, you're great, we love you. Plus she had really great— I think it's also because of her reviews and what she was getting, but also they realized she was getting that engagement here on Instagram that was going to her site. And so they just pushed it more and more. So it really just helped her to reach that big goal. And so it's about working smarter and, you know, capitalizing on where your money is spent, especially if you're just starting. Like, I feel like, yeah, a dollar on Etsy might not be so bad over a course of time, but a dollar on Instagram could last you for like a year, like, because that person is going to be warmed and nurtured over time, versus on Etsy you can't say that, you can't go back to that can't— it's just like the ad's gone once it's gone, versus someone who finds you on Instagram, they can follow you and see if they like your vibe, they like what you're putting out there, if you're consistent, you know, all those kind of things. And that can help your business to grow.

Totally. And I love that idea of like extra boosting what Etsy is already doing. I hadn't even thought of that. That's really awesome.

Because it's like, you know, I was telling her, she's like, well, should I, should I should I spend that money? I'm like, well, Etsy is already doing it for you for free. This is just like adding to that momentum and it really did help. So if you're getting views on Etsy but you want to capitalize that on Instagram, I mean, Instagram, what I love about Instagram ads, now I can talk about Instagram ads because I've done them. I haven't done Etsy ads, but Instagram, you can retarget audiences that have already seen your page or are engaged, which means that you're not just throwing money to a cold audience. The audience is already kind of semi-warm. And that's a lot of fun because then it's like, you know, you're getting people that already kind of like you, you know, and they're more likely to say yes. But if you did one like without the retargeting, you can grow an audience that way. It just might take a few more dollars, if you will. It's still profitable. The only thing with me and Etsy ads is that I don't think if you have no experience with Facebook, Instagram ads, that you should just do it. You need a little bit of help with someone who knows what they're doing with Instagram, Facebook ads. I would test out boosted ads on Instagram specifically, because that's pretty simple. You can just, you know, you can allow Instagram to, you know, pick the audience. You can pick the audience. And you can spend $30 to see what's going to happen. But if you really want to go deep into ads and you're brand new, like you've never even done anything ads, I do think you should definitely get with someone to help you. But yeah, it's experience with this. So that's the only reason why I'm like, or call Dani. Like, Dani can help. I can help you, but it's not for the faint of heart. Facebook ads are not the easiest.

And the thing with brand new accounts too, like You know, for example, I do retargeting ads on my magazine account, but I couldn't do them on my new Instagram account because I did not have an audience to retarget.

Right.

So what I actually did was I made sure that any post I was running an ad to was a product that had a specific audience. So, I mean, we talked about this a little bit last time. I make a lot of leaves right now because I love plants, which you can see all here in the background.. And so I was able to run an ad. I started out at just $1 a day because I didn't know what I was going to get out of, you know, this audience or my product or anything. And I just targeted people who like indoor plants. It gave me somebody to target, whereas— and I did try targeting just broadly people who like stained glass, and that didn't go well. I got almost nothing out of that. It worked much better when I targeted people not interested in my specific type of art, but interested in the type of art I was making. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense. Yeah.

So I actually did have one thing I wanted to share really quick since we're talking about getting started. There is— so last year there was a worldwide survey of handmade sellers and it was run by the Business of Making Girls. And it was called The State of Handmade. And I wanted to share this because a lot of people really expect and want success right out of the gates, and that's not necessarily how it goes. And so the results of this survey was that 80% of handmade sellers who had a shop for less than a year made less than $1,000, and 96% of the sellers who made between $30,000 and $50,000 a year have been selling for more than 2 years. So just to hit home, to be patient with yourself because it's really a process. Don't get in your own head if somebody doesn't— you know, if you post a picture and you don't get 50 or 100 likes right out of the gate, it doesn't mean they don't like it. You just have to keep nurturing your audience, learn as you go. You will get there.

Yeah, I love that you brought up that statistic because that's not— I feel like that's That's every business. Like, you think it's your baby and you love it and you're so excited and you're wanting everyone else to be so excited, but everyone else doesn't know you exist yet. And it's time for them to find you and for your crowd or your tribe to find you. So when I was talking about consistency earlier, about that being whatever your reality of what consistency looks like for you, is that that's important that you set that up so that it's reasonable. Like, don't set yourself up to fall with— you know, you can't show up 7 days a week on Instagram because that is not your life. So how to know that, hey, I'm gonna be live on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, then they're like, okay, I know that's when you're gonna be here. Set yourself up to be successful in that way. And it's the same thing with, you know, your website. You're gonna put new products out on Etsy and it happens every Friday, or there's some shops that, you know, they have a launch where they are open for a short period of time until they sell out and then they go back and close down and then come back. Like, you have to decide what that is for you and be consistent with that instead of trying to be like on all the things all the time, all over the place. Just set a track and kind of keep going with that and tweak with whoever it is, you know, you're learning what your audience needs. And that's— Boho said, oh my God, you answered the question even before answering. Before answering. Awesome.

Yay!

Good consistency. Yes.

Yep.

So speaking of consistency, Dani and I are going to be showing up— I think we said every— what is this, the first and third Thursday?

Yes.

What did we say? Now we have to look it up. I was like, I have to look at the calendar.

We're already failing.

First and third— I think it's first and fourth, actually. Is it first?

I think it is, actually.

First and fourth Thursday of the month, we'll be going live, answering questions about business, handmaking, mindset, all that jazz. We'll have fun with it all. And if you want more from Dani and I, you will have to join us here. But we might have to start doing something like this on my podcast, She Crafts to Thrive. All right, you guys have a great day. Thanks, Dani. Bye, guys.

Okay, that's a wrap. I hope you guys really enjoyed that live conversation. I'd love to hear some feedback to see if you liked how we repurposed this content that we recorded live on Instagram. I hope you found some tips on how you can get started online with your products. I hope you learned some new things, even if you are already selling online, things that can help you to grow your business financially and really capitalize on ads and marketing and creating a community on Instagram and using Etsy or your website and all of that. Just all the great gems that we shared with you on the show. Again, a huge thank you to Dani from The Handmade Seller Magazine. Please be sure to go check out and subscribe to that digital magazine at handmade seller.com and use the coupon code SHE'S_CRAFTED to get 15% off. And in the meantime, ladies, of course, please remember this— you know I mean it from my heart— that I believe that yes, you, you are crafted to thrive.