Words That Win, Simple Copywriting Principles with Samantha Burmeister

Hey y'all, so you know, you and I have all been there. Even the best copywriters and the best writers in the world have had a time where you open up that Word doc or you pull out that piece of paper and you get ready to write or type and nothing happens. And you're like, what am I writing about? What am I going to talk about? Why do I have to do this, right? And so many of us have a challenge with using this in our marketing toolset, right? It's a skill that many of us can't wait to outsource and offload to someone who that is their zone of genius. But today in this episode, you're going to hear some tips that are going to help you and some mindset shifts too around how you approach and look at your writing for your business. And to do this, I have invited Samantha into the the podcast. Samantha is an amazing copywriter. She is the founder of Nomad Copy Agency, and obviously that means she loves to travel. She's a traveler who does her work all around the world. She has transitioned from corporate sales to starting her own copywriting business, which we'd speak about in this episode. And she really leans into her core values, which you'll discover in this episode, to not only see the world in a different way, travel in a way that feels good and feels joyful, and also to run a very successful business as a copy agency and how she applies this to help her clients. So if you're like, I need some help around this whole thing around copywriting, writing things about my business, this is the episode for you. I'm going to talk about different things when it comes to having transparency in your marketing and your sales to attract the right folks. All right, so stay tuned. Welcome to Crafted to Thrive, the globally ranked podcast for entrepreneurs living with chronic illness. I'm your host, Nikita Williams, and after being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses myself, I figured out the surprisingly simple missing links to growing a profitable business without compromising my health. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do insane. If you're ready to own your story and create a thriving business that aligns with your health and well-being, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for entrepreneurs with chronic illness. This is Crafted to Thrive.

I am so excited to have Samantha on the show. She is a fellow friend of like another networking group that I've connected with. I'm so like, love all the women I've got to meet over this last year especially. So please tell us who you are, what you do, where you're from.

Hey Nikita, I'm Samantha. I am the copywriter and the founder of Nomad Copy Agency. I'm originally from Iowa, um, but it's called Nomad Copy Agency for a reason in that I am everywhere all of the time. I am currently recording this in Northern California.

Yeah, she's not kidding. I think like a couple of weeks ago you were like in Italy or Australia or Alaska. I don't know.

All of the above are true and all in the last several weeks. Yeah.

And it's like, I think it's really cool. Like did the business start with being a nomad? Like how did this business start?

Yeah, great question. So I've known ever since I was in college that I wanted to be location independent. That was really important to me. And I did work in a corporate sales role for about a decade and various roles. And then once I felt like I was financially and emotionally and all of the other things ready to go out on my own, I did quit my job while I was on a beach in Vietnam. I was on vacation and it's not as unhinged as it sounds. It was a long time coming, but there was a final straw and I was like, something clicked in my brain. I was like, a week from right now I will be back in my office and I couldn't have been further from that in any way. And I was like, I cannot.

Go back.

I was like, I should not be sitting here feeling anxious. Like I have the Sunday scaries a week in advance. Absolutely not. And I was, had been preparing to go out on my own for a long time. And so I did. And then when I started copywriting and it came time to, you know, like name my LLC and all of that, I never wanted it to be a surprise to anyone that I worked with that like, I'm not in your neighborhood. I might not even be in your time zone or your country. But what's important here is that I can translate what I do for your clients in a really great way. And that my life experience has like helped me understand the way that other people think and all of that. So it was by no accident that I called myself Nomad Copy Agency, and that's kind of how the two of them, like my life and my work, run together in that way.

Yeah. And you know, that is probably the— I think when we've talked before, like before the show and other timeframes where we've talked, and I've always thought, I've always loved that about you being like having those experiences from traveling and being all over the world and seeing things from a different perspective or hearing things in a different perspective is like gold for a copywriter, right? Like it's like perfect for that. How have you found your rhythm with having an agency? And like, yeah, it's an agency now, but has it always been that way?

It has not always been an agency. You know, so often as business owners we're faced with the decision, do we expand our revenue once we hit a certain point by expanding our pricing and taking on fewer clients? Or do we take on the same number of clients and expand how we're able to serve and what does that scalability look like? Does it look like courses or does it look like additional individuals? And for me, that looked like a junior copywriter. But no, it has not always been that way, but it has always been like very intentionally designed so that I would be able to free up my time because I mean, if I'm in Asia, I don't want to be up at all hours of the night talking to clients. I can't always stick to a US time zone. And my hack there is that I only take meetings from 7 to 10 California time. So it means I'm up early when I'm here, but when I'm in Europe or when I'm in Africa, 'cause I spent several months in South Africa earlier this year, I can still like meet friends for dinner when I'm in those time zones and not have to like really mess with my schedule too much.

Mm. Yeah. How does this work with your whole like flow of like being you? Like, you know, outside of business, How does this like hit your really good places as like your strengths? And then also how does it challenge some of your not so great strengths?

So, and this might be like a total red flag to some people, but like I am not a details person. Like I surround myself with details people though. And what's really interesting in that is I think that some people think that I need all of I need all of the details so that I can communicate all of the details to their ideal clients. But when it comes to my writing, I actually take the details and turn them into a transformational idea. So I actually don't have to deal too much in the details. That's for my clients or their OBMs or VAs, whoever I'm communicating with. So from a copy perspective, I get to like leverage that strength and that weakness all in the same time. From a travel perspective, it's like, I am an Enneagram 7, I'm a manifesting generator, all of those things. So like I gain my energy even as a self-proclaimed introvert. I gain my energy from the ideas of people around me. So when I get to, as a creative, go out into the world and be inspired by other people all the time, it translates so well into my work because as creatives we can't just have our creative brains turned on all the time. It's really hard and So I get to like leverage my lifestyle in my work and like let my strengths really shine in that way.

Yeah. I love that you said that cuz I love that word leverage. I think sometimes we hear leverage from a context of like, I don't know, I can't think of where I've heard it in a way that's like, ah, like I kind of had a weird feeling about it. Yeah.

It feels transactional.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like it totally feels that way, but I feel like it's just a way for you to like grow in a way that doesn't inhibit you from exploring things that are uncomfortable, but still being comfortable. Like it's a little safe place, but there's also enough uncomfortableness that you're like, I'm still growing in this place, if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. And there's just so much to draw from out there. And as a copywriter, I need the time to like sit down and be alone and sit in a room and focus. And write. But we can't all do that all of the time. And there has to be that balance. So it's like, oh, you think that because I'm taking this call from Rome that it's like so cool and exotic? It's like, no, I am out in the suburbs because I couldn't be trusted in the city to focus. So, you know, it is, it's wonderful and it's exotic and it's fun and it's all of the things. But sometimes I do have to get— I have to have the like, we have ice cream at home conversation with myself sometimes.

I got you, I got you, I got you. So Tell me about like the mindset around, I don't know, I just find like being all over, like in different places often, like what is some of the challenges as far as mindset when it comes to growing your business and the agency as it grows that you've had to like overcome in order to get to where you are right now?

Mm, that's a great question. I feel like the first thing is that it's really easy to fall into whatever is new and exciting in the new exciting place that I am. And the way that I combat that is creating routines that I can replicate anywhere. So a couple of examples. Every morning I wake up and drink 8 ounces of water. It's not that hard to do, but it's like I do not drink my coffee until I have had some water. I keep a water by my bed and it's like I don't have a full-blown, you know, Korean skincare morning routine no matter where I am. But having that one thing that I come back to every morning of like, I have this. I also travel with a memory foam pillow and a yoga mat. I'm not a carry-on only girl, but it's like I sleep figuratively in the same place every night. My head lays down in the same place every night, whether I'm going home to visit my family or if I am spending 2 months in South Africa.

I've got it.

And then I have my yoga mat to ground myself and not give myself excuses not to move my body on some days too.

Yeah, I can— yeah, I think that's such a really good— a good idea and a good practice, something that kind of follows you no matter where you are, that kind of centers you into being like— because I can imagine just the time zone difference of things could like really mess you up.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's like some days it's just totally out of my control. Like there is no way to travel intercontinentally without messing up your sleep schedule. Like that just happens. I'm not carrying on my huge pillow, but for the vast majority of it, it's like I try to travel on weekends so that I can still keep a Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday type of schedule. It's just— I mean, your question was like the lessons and the mindset that I've had to keep, but so much of that is just routine, is rooted in routine.

Yeah. So I'm going to go back to the mindset question because I feel like you told us the lessons, but what has been the mindset? Like, what is the mindset that can get in the way of the routine? Because routine is great. I think a lot of us feel like, yeah, Oh, once I get there. But usually it's the mindset piece. It's like, I need to get there and it's holding us back. So what has that looked like for you?

For me, the last couple years, what it's really been rooted in is values and understanding what my values are and being able to articulate them. Because for me, if it's not a heck yes, it's a heck no. And if something feels overwhelming or, It gives me that like core thing to fall back on and be like, do I want to do this? Yes or no? And then why? My values include curiosity and freedom, which are huge when traveling abroad because so often there's a lot of ups and downs with tourism. I'll leave that there. And so often we go places and it's almost like you look at other people and you decide if you are superior or inferior to them and to their routines and their traditions and It's like, well, if we come at this with an air of curiosity and I'm here to learn and to continue to grow as a person, and that is a core value of mine, then that really helps my mindset and not, you know, I mean, I lived in Mexico for 8 or 9 months between 2020 and 2021. And like something that's vastly different than traditional, what's traditional in the US is like there is so little regard for your ears at any hour of the day. It's like they got off work at 9:30 and wanted to start a party in the streets that's going to last until 4 a.m. Like, they're unapologetically loud as— and like, it's just countertraditional to what I'm used to as a suburban American. But like, if I have to come at that from a like, I chose to be here and I'm curious about it and I'm here to learn and I'm here to adapt, and that helps my mindset so much and not getting frustrated or like homesick or, you know, just over it, you know, when I'm places that might not fit into my ideal.

Yeah, that is such a good point because I feel like curiosity is like one of those tools in their tool belts as business owners that we have that I don't think we often tap fully into. Like, we see someone doing it and it's like, oh, let me do it just like them. But like, where is the curiosity of like, how can I do it differently without reinventing the wheel? Like, you know, those kind of things. I think that's a piece of it. That's usually where I always go back to. Is it connected to that? Why am I doing this thing that I'm doing? Why am I experiencing this? Or should I be experiencing this because of those feelings?

Yeah. And sometimes you just need to, like, have a glass of water and take a walk. You know, I think that's, like, true with any sort of mindset issue. If you find yourself falling down a rabbit hole, it's like, maybe Maybe we don't need to fix this right now. Maybe the best way to deal with it is to not right now.

Yeah, feel the feeling. So take a break. I think I was just talking to a client yesterday and I was like, half of the call I was telling him, like, you're human though. Stop beating yourself up for being human. The whole idea that mindset is just never going to be an issue and you're never not going to be uncomfortable in Mexico while people are dancing in the street at 4:00 a.m. is kind of ludicrous if you think about it. Give Give yourself permission to be like, I am human, there's this thing, and I'm trying to work it out, and that's okay.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

So one of the things that I like really love talking to you about was copy and sales. You have a huge experience in both of the worlds, obviously. And when it comes to sales, which is like the icky word nobody likes to say in the room, And I, I feel that way too. Oftentimes when I say like service or offering or whatever, because it is like we have such a weird emotional and physical reaction to the word sales. How have you helped grow your business with a good relationship with sales?

Oh, that's a good one. I had a career in sales. So for me, because it was business-to-business sales and my first job in sales was very transactional, it was items that typically cost between $50 and $3,000, which I know is a huge range, but when selling to companies, that's a drop in the bucket. So for me it was just kind of a game of like, I got to have fun with it. I got to learn things, I got to try on different words. And as entrepreneurs, that's a lot harder, but it's not impossible. Like try something new, have a fake sales conversation with someone who would be in your ideal audience and tell them that it's market research, you know, and it is market research, but, you know, we get to have so much fun with it. And I think when we think about it, like with our strengths, like again, I'm in a creative industry as a copywriter, but like even when I was in my corporate role, I remember thinking, oh my gosh, they just taught us all these methodologies and it feels so sterile about how we're supposed to talk to these people.

People.

And because I was selling into the C-suite of companies that were about $500 million in revenue. So like, I don't know, I'm probably not allowed to name them, but you've heard of them. And they're the ones where you would like do the cheek swab and like get your DNA. Like those companies were potentially some of my clients, maybe.

Um, those are real incognito. Yeah, we don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, no, absolutely not. But I was talking to their CEOs, CMOs, CIOs, and it's like we were taught these methodologies and it was like I said, very sterile. And it's like, it wasn't until I realized that like these people could be my next door neighbor, these people could be my uncle, like talk to people like they're human.

Yeah.

And lean into what's valuable to you. And for me, that was my creativity. And I felt like I had to come into work and be one person and go home and be another person. And as I started to see sales as a relationship and something that I got to bring myself to, you know, they don't need to know that I had a tummy ache this morning, but they do get to see like the way that I talk and who I am. And, you know, I get to ask them about, you know, if they had a good weekend and what their vacation was like and what conferences they're attending this year. And again, applying that natural curiosity but also getting creative was so much fun. And I think when I started to see it that way, it became way more fun. And also like I have this word, I call it edu-selling. I haven't Googled it before, but I feel like, I feel like it should be a word. And it's like so much of sales is just educating, telling people, you know, you don't have to wait until the bottom of a 1,000-word email that basically just says, I'm nervous to get to the point. I'm nervous to get to the point. I'm nervous to get to the point. You don't have to wait to the bottom of that email to say, hey, by the way, this is what I do and how I do what I do. This is how I help people. This is how, you know, social proof. This is how I helped Nikita Williams do X, Y, and Z. Just educate people on what you do and how you do it, and then, you know, you can ask for the sale. But so often when you're educating people, they will ask you how you can sell to them.

Yeah, that is, that is so true.

But that is so true.

Like, there have been times where you're like, in your head thinking, oh, you're providing all the value and you forget that piece of like, people want to know, so they're going to ask you the question, like, what does that even look like? And I think one of the things that I've really pulled from you, and I have, you know, a coach that I work with, it's like, don't be afraid to tell people how to work with you. Like, to me, it's like, it's the— I just go back to like in the olden days, quote unquote, like olden days when we were watching TV and we would actually sit through commercials Like we didn't have to question like how to get to McDonald's and how much their Happy Meal was. Like we didn't have to think about when I go to Best Buy, like what am I buying? How much is it? I didn't have to guess that. I knew what it was when I watched commercial, like this is what it is. And it's like we're so afraid to be like, well, I am a business and I offer a service, but I am also selling that service.

Yeah. And it's so helpful with like pre-qualifying people too of like you don't wanna surprise them with your pricing. So many people are really hesitant to put their price of their program when I'm writing their sales pages and it's like, but do you also want people to like waste your time on sales calls and then be like, oh, holy cow, this costs $5,000. Like, don't waste your own time.

Yeah. I have said this, I will die on this hill. I will die on this hill. I'm like, I will die on this hill. Like this whole idea that especially for my creative service-based entrepreneurs specifically, just like you said, like, what is valuable to you, right? Like, is it your time? Is it like your energy? Like, how much emotional energy goes in? Well, this person that's on a call with me doesn't know how much my services are. I'm going to talk about all these things before they actually know what the cost of my service is and then be surprised that they're like, well, it's not in my budget. Huh? Like, I mean, it's a different market, uh, like you were saying. Like, I think when we are marketing certain things, do you think it depends on what it is you're marketing? So for example, why I say this is like, you're gonna know how much like, you know, Apple costs, but you're not gonna see commercials. You're gonna see commercials for Apple, but we don't see that many commercials for Tesla. Like, they don't put a lot of advertising money because you just know you're going to be paying the money. Like, you just know, you're not worried about a budget. Versus Apple, it's like in that higher tier, but you still want to know if you can afford it. Is that something that you have found, like, in the nuances of working with your people when it comes to copy, like being more open to what kind of value are you communicating with who you're working with?

Yeah, I really like that you use the example of Tesla because when you look at just about any high-end brand or any exclusive brand, you will be able to easily find out how much it costs.

Mm-hmm.

That said, especially in the creative space, the service-based space, like it's, our pricing is gonna be contingent, but you should at least be able to communicate a range, right? Mm-hmm. Like I tell people very blatantly, the project minimum to work with me is $1,500. That said, I've worked on $20,000 projects before. So, you know, it depends is really a heck of an answer. But also, you know, if you are a business who is doing a multi-step launch that leads into multiple products and et cetera, et cetera, you're probably at a stage in business where that won't surprise you as much. But I always encourage people because I have to understand people's processes when I write their emails and their sales pages and stuff. And I have to I don't create the process, but I have to understand it. And it's like, I think it's so silly to not say in your sales, like in your pre-consult application, you know, whatever you call that before somebody gets on a sales call with you to have a button that they click and say, as just so you know, the typical project costs between $1,500 and $3,000. Are you prepared to invest this in your success? And it's like, you know, the people wanna know, just tell 'em, just tell 'em what it costs. And it shouldn't be hard. That doesn't mean that, you know, the hero image on your website needs to say it either.

Like, right.

But look at, look at the high-end people in your industry and you'll see it. You'll see their pricing.

Yeah. And you don't have to, like, I feel like it's we are afraid of the awkward conversation, but I always think that thought actually leads to the actions of awkward conversations.

Of the awkward conversation.

Like every time it's like, well, that's what happens. Uh, what's the word? Self-fulfilling prophecy. It's going to be awkward.

Yeah, it's awkward because you make it awkward.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So when it comes to like someone who is getting ready to outsource copywriting for whatever business that they have, when do they know that that is something that they're ready for?

Yeah, um, and again, this is a good "it depends" answer, but I'll give a few scenarios. If their primary audience does not speak the same primary language as they do, or if they're not fluent in that, large grammatical mistakes can be a huge red flag to people. And I think that's something to keep in mind, that if you are either an incredibly poor writer or you're not super confident in the language that you're going to be delivering in, you might need a copywriter sooner than other people, and that might end up being a copy editor instead of a copywriter if you want to write it and pass it off to someone who can do editing. I just think that that is worth noting. And a specific example is I've worked with a lot of Dutch people and Germans. They're super good at English, but the nuances of their writing almost come off like AI wrote it, and people see that and they notice it. So it's like, I am very impressed because those people know twice as many words as I do. That is impressive.

Yeah.

But I think it's worth noting that that's an example. Second example, getting ready to work with a copywriter. If you have launched once before, you know that your product or your service is good and that your ideal audience, that you know who your ideal audience is, not just you've written it down, but that you have sold this thing to that archetype before, then you're ready to hire a copywriter because if you're still experimenting, The copywriter will not have enough information on who your ideal audience is, how they react. They will not have testimonials to pull from to see the way that they talk about you and what they found valuable in your service.

Yeah.

So I think that is when people need to hire their first copywriter is when they know what they're offering and they know who they're offering it to and they've proven it. If you've not yet proven it, do it yourself.

Yeah.

Like use a template, do what you wanna do because once you've gone past that point of using a copywriter for the first time and you've proven your product and then it's starting to scale and you're able to create new products in your business, then it becomes just like a, I have the revenue and I no longer wanna waste time writing okay copy. So of course I'm gonna hire a copywriter for every project here on out.

Yeah, I have so many mixed feelings about hiring copywriters. Like it's, it's definitely, I definitely agree with you. It depends. I definitely agree with, like, where you are going with your business has a big factor in, like, what you're going to do when it comes to outsourcing copywriting. I have made the mistake 100% of hiring a copywriter way too soon, and that's not a cheap mistake, y'all. Like, that's not— okay, like, it's not cheap. And it's like, oh man, if I had only known. Now it's not the time. So, like, I love that you broke down like, here are some places to think about before you actually hire or you think you're ready to hire a copywriter. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And like, I mean, copywriting is like tapping into your own abundance in your business. It is this opportunity for you to free up, cuz I mean, what I can do in a day, other people would agonize over for 3 weeks and then do it over the course of multiple days and then still not feel confident in it. You know, so it is just this, like, if you can just hand this off and not have it be a problem, the only thing you have to be able to do in advance is communicate what the value of that service is and to whom.

I love that. I love that point. That's such a good one. I'll have to make sure we quote that somewhere. So let's talk a little personal stuff for a quick— for a moment. Sure. So obviously, you know who I serve. I serve women who are living with chronic illness and chronic pain and all those different variations, whether that's physically, emotionally, emotionally or mentally. Have you experienced or supported someone living with chronic illness? Are you yourself dealing with different challenges that has either affected the way you run your business or changed the way you choose to run your business?

Mm-hmm. Um, I have not knowingly worked with people who have chronic illness, and I'm trying to think if that's like 100% true or not, but like, because people tend to be very open with me. But I mean, there's so many things that can stand in the way of us running our businesses, especially as solopreneurs, especially as people who are beginning to scale or are just really comfortable running it all ourselves with hired out help. And that, like you said, can be physical and mental illness. It can also be like I'm working with someone right now and she's in the middle of a launch and her kid broke their arm yesterday and they have just been out. And it's not the same thing and I'm not equating the two, but there's so much, it's like some days we can't do it, some days we don't feel like doing it.

Mm-hmm.

And what I think so many people's takeaways have been with working with me or working with a copywriter is, and especially in tandem with like a tech VA who can implement systems, is it's like you don't have to write the follow-up email because the follow-up email after your call is written for you. And so much of that is like, it takes a lot of effort upfront, when working with a copywriter or writing your own copy, but then it's like it pays dividends later on when you're having a flare-up and you can't do it, or it pays dividends later on when you completely forgot to follow up and you didn't drop a client because of it, or you didn't lose a lead because of it. So I think that's probably my biggest takeaway in my own business as well as others, cuz I've written a zillion funnels. And a zillion follow-up emails and a zillion sales emails for other people. I just started doing that for myself this year, and it's like wild to see my opt-ins and my email list and all of these other things just kind of start to flourish on their own now that they're in place. And that's really been a game changer for me. And I can only imagine for the people who don't have as much control of their schedules or their health as, you know, I do.

Yeah, I mean, I think I call those things life hurdles. Like, everyone has life hurdles. Some of them are chronic life hurdles, and some of them are for a period of a season. It's just like seasons for some of us, and for some of us, that's a lifelong challenge. And the systems piece, living with chronic illness— and to me, this is where copy comes in— is like, I almost feel like once you do it, it's so much easier to duplicate over and over again versus feeling like you to figure it out all of the time, right? And you're right. Like, I just recently— I just finished my— I've been working on this for years. My brain just— and I've had— this is one of the things I've had a copywriter come in and write my welcome sequence, and I hated it. And it wasn't her fault. It was my fault because I didn't know how to communicate what it is that I was trying to communicate with who I was trying to communicate it with. And I just recently, like, redid it myself, and it's like, oh, I feel so much better. And it's on automatic and it's like you don't ever have to do it again. But if you're at a point in your business where you don't have those things in, in place and yet you are still financially growing, then why not outsource that to someone who will take that for you and like make it the thing that it needs to be?

Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's like, you know, this person that I just used as an example who they've had to be out this week, But their copy is still gonna get written.

Mm-hmm.

And like that outsourcing and like allowing other people to help you, even if it's like what you really need right now is a foot massage. I can't do that for you, but I can make your life easier in other ways. And like just letting people be that for you. I think it's a huge hurdle that we face as women and as business owners. We so often think that we're alone in this and it's hard to find the right people sometimes, but when you do, it's just like, It's like that feeling when you're cutting wrapping paper and it just slides.

Like, let it be good. I know that I used to work at Buckle back in the day, like way, way back in the day. I used to have to package and like gift wrap, and I— when you got that scissors in there just right, it was like, oh, like that feeling. It's so funny. So tell me and everyone listening, what are some things that they should be looking out for in order for their copy to convert? Yeah. And when I say convert for anyone who's like, convert, I mean like, like turn into like an action.

So when you're looking for conversions, okay, two things, brevity and pleasure points. And you have your hill, I have my hill, these are my hills, is that so often, and it's an important exercise, but a business coach or you attend a free training and it'll tell you to do like you need to know who your audience is. So you create your ideal audience and you create the avatar and you name them and you've got Allison and she's 35 and lives in Tampa and she enjoys long walks on the beach and whatever. If you have— if you're learning this exercise from someone good, they will take you to then tell me what their pain points are. And it's like, well, she has chronic illness and therefore, you know, she doesn't ride the normal like ups and downs that some people have. Sometimes it's completely out of control. She can't see it coming. It really makes her feel type A, B, and C. And she, you know, this, that, the other. If you have a great person leading you through this exercise, they will also tell you what is their ideal solution to these problems. And those are the pleasure points that you then need to hit on when writing your own copy and when you're talking about conversions, because It's one thing to show people that you understand that they like long walks on the beach and they don't like feeling tired all the time. It's another thing to tell them that your service or your product is going to help them get better rest at night so that they can show up more completely for their family. Those are the pleasure points that we need to hit on, is not just what are they struggling with. And it doesn't end at the sale when you say, okay, when you buy this pillow or do my hypnotherapy service, that your life gets better. It's your life gets better so far in the future. And by the way, the first step to getting there is working with me. So that's the first thing. I know that was a long way to get there.

No, I love that.

That's the hill that I will die on is don't just rest at your pain points. You've gotta start thinking about your pleasure points and tying those to specifically what your deliverables are. Second thing is brevity, which I clearly didn't just give a good example.

And I'm the, I am the worst. So like, don't even, like, I am the worst at brevity. Brevity.

Yeah, I'm a storyteller at heart. Like, I don't know, I was probably a preacher of some sort in a past life. Like, I'm just, um, but brevity is— no one opens their emails hoping for a blog post. Keep it short. Tell me what I need to do. Tell me what I need to do early. Tell me what I need to do often. That's it. You know, they do not need to hear about how your grandma's neighbor's dog influenced you when you were in second grade and now you really like dogs, but also like, speaking of dogs, These dogs are hurting. Want to buy my insoles? Like, no, no, like, hi, I'm Cass, 25% off, buy the insoles. Like, get in their inbox, get out of their inbox, because somebody's going to spend a max of about 30 seconds on your email.

Wow, wow, that is really interesting. Um, I agree and disagree with you, Samantha, and I'm just saying, like, I feel I feel like the brevity piece is really important, especially if you're like telling people like to go do this thing or to buy this thing. I also feel like, and I have seen this just from my own community of like how they've grown, like just watching their habits of how like actually my longer emails, like they eat that stuff up, like they reply, they click on the links and it's not even like links to necessarily a sale, it's just like to more information. But when I am selling, quote unquote, like, here's the offer. Yeah, I totally agree. They have to be short. Like, they can't be like all of this stuff. It has to be like, this is what it is, here's how you get there. I just feel like there is place for storytelling.

There is. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, but when I'm selling, it's got to be short because confused buyers don't buy. And if you're taking them through a story, like my my nurture email this week was probably about 1,000 words long and it touched on burnout and when I quit my previous job and why I do what I do now. And it's like, that is super important. The nurture is super important and to connect with your people. When selling, sometimes you've gotta give 'em the facts.

Yeah, so true. So true. I'm, yeah, so true. It's a whole nother conversation. Well, this was awesome. Like, this was awesome. So what are ways that folks can find you? And what is one piece of advice that you would want someone to take away from today? Mm.

I'll start with the advice is to keep it simple. Yeah, there's that acronym KISS, keep it super simple. Like if you're looking at your copy and you're wondering if it will convert, like write down the 5 W's and make sure that it tells them who, what, where, when, why. Who is this for? What are they getting? When will they get it? How will it be delivered and why should they need it?

Now.

The why is always about urgency, not just why you should have it in general, but why you need it today. Where can people find me? Let's see if people are like, Sam, I want to work with you yesterday. Let's have this conversation. The top of my website has a Let's Connect button and that's where you can tell me about your project and it'll send you a calendar link. That website is nomadcopyagency.com. Also, my links always live in my Instagram bio and I'm on Instagram @nomad.copy. And I'm on LinkedIn at Samantha Burmeister.

Sweet. Any freebie that you have? An amazing freebie. Like, if anybody wants to see if their funnel stuff is going, which I need to do now, now that I've updated mine, you'd be like, girl, yeah, I want to do yours. She gonna be telling me some stuff. But anyway, like, what is your freebie? Because it's—

yeah, so this is super meta, but I will audit your opt-in. And to do that, I will opt into your opt-in and follow it for about a week. And then at the end of the week, I will I will return a Loom video to you with advice on how you can increase your subscribe rate from your actual opt-in page and then from your emails, tell you how you can decrease your unsubscribe rate and hopefully get some sales right out of the gate by editing your copy. And it's 100% free. And the link to that is also on my website, or I will make sure that you have it so you can include it in the show notes.

Yes, that would be awesome. Thank you so much, Samantha. This was fun.

Um, yeah, thank you.

This was great.

That's a wrap, y'all. Thanks for tuning in to Crafted to Thrive, the podcast that helps entrepreneurs with chronic illness to thrive and build a holistic business and life. Check out our website at craftedittothrive.com for this episode's show notes and all the gifts and goodies. Connect with me on Instagram at Thrive Nikita Williams for more tips and behind the scenes and more. Tag me to share what you loved about this episode, and I'll feature you on an upcoming episode. So until next time, remember, yes, you are crafted to thrive.