Creative Finance is Not the Answer (I have 30M in seller financed Debt)

All right, hello and welcome back to Multifamily Strategy Live, uh, sharing one of my favorite topics. This is actually something that I hear very, very often, uh, from the mentorship group, especially when people join. And so I think this is a question that a lot of people on this channel likely have when they're getting into their investing career. So, uh, welcome. Uh, by the way, this is live, so you can ask questions in the chat, and I will be seeing the chat. Usually I'm live on everything, but I skipped Instagram today because I forgot to hit the button, so So sorry, Instagram, but if you're here on YouTube or any of the other places, uh, welcome to Multifamily Strategy. This is a topic that a lot of people I think miss is, uh, people reach out and say, hey, I'm looking for multifamily deal or multifamily deals. Oh, it's live. We can't edit that. I'm looking for seller finance deals. I'm looking for creative finance and I'm not finding it. Where are you finding these off-market seller finance deals? And here's the truth of the matter. You're not looking for seller finance deals. You find a lot of them. And if you want context, about 70%, a little over 300 units, uh, of my portfolio has seller financing either in first or second position. So I do a ton of creative finance. I love seller finance. It's usually what ends up being glued to my deal. That being said, I'm never looking for it. And I will explain on this video exactly why. Now there's something that you've probably heard. If you've ever seen this channel, you've probably heard this many times. Deal, then debt, then equity. That is the order in which we do things. When I started my career, I was at the CoStar Group. And so my 9-to-5 job, they own Apartments.com and LoopNet and all the other, like, basically the internet for commercial real estate. So I'm working for them. I'm saving, saving, saving. I buy one duplex, buy another duplex. Uh, 8 years into my career, I own a tiny 1955 house and a couple duplexes. So I realized, wait a second, this model doesn't exactly work. There's a kid in the office, Cody Davis. If you guys follow the channel for a while, Cody and I started this channel together 5 years ago, actually a little bit more than 5 years ago now. Cody at that time was 19, didn't go to college, didn't have the career, didn't have a job in real estate, had 30 rental apartments with seller financing. So I asked the same question, how are you finding these seller finance deals? Because I think it's where we all gravitate towards. Here is the actual answer. So I'm not going to— I'm not going to string you along here. I'll just give you the answer right here off the bat. You're not looking for creative finance. Creative finance is a solution to close the deal. You are looking for deals the same way that anyone else is looking for deals, but you're adding to your arsenal the ability to add creativity. So I'm going to give you an actual couple of examples here. If I am just going after, uh, if I'm calling deals, this is what people tend to do. I'm calling owners, I'm talking to brokers, and I'm opening the conversation with like, awesome, I love this listing. Can I hear a little bit about the property? Do you think the owner would be open to seller financing? Or Hey, have you considered creative finance? What's going to happen is you're going to get rejected on that literally every single time. Uh, or I guess maybe you'll get a yes occasionally, but for the most part, uh, you're going to call a lot of deals. You're going to burn a lot of relationships. Brokers are not going to believe you have any money. Uh, even if you do have money, if you don't have money, then you're just basically advertising it. And owners who aren't interested in seller financing right now are not going to talk deals with you. And so you're going to burn these relationships. Here's how you actually play the game. If you wanted the easiest way right now in 2026 to find creative finance, drum roll please. The path is you're going to go on to Craigslist, go on to LoopNet, and you're going to start calling the deals that are on market. But, but we're going to do one thing different. When you call these deals online, what you're going to do is you are going to talk to the broker. You're going to negotiate the deal where it is conventionally. Throw out creative for one second. Negotiate the deal where it works. If you were to buy it with a bank, you're going to go back to that broker and you're just going to say, hey, uh, I've underwrote the deal, I've looked at the financing, this is where me and where I believe the bank's going to fall out on this deal, this is where it's purchasable. They do not need to know your personal financial situation at this point. They do not need to know your strategy, that you're— whether you have the money or not. What you are offering them is this is where the deal works. And this is what I mean by deal, then debt, then equity. At this point, if the deal is not a slam dunk for bank financing, you now have a problem that the seller has. You guys have agreed on a price. You guys have agreed on a value of the property. Uh, your price may be lower than what they want. They come in and say, hey, you know, it's really gonna be this price. This is where I'm at. Awesome. So now I'm solving their problem instead of my problem, not having enough money. We're solving the problem of they want a price that the banks do not exactly agree with, or they want a structure that the banks don't agree with. Now I can lace in the creativity, and so I know what I can do. So here are some of your options that I'm gonna give you an example, then I'll open it for questions. So options, let's keep it stupidly simple. Uh, the deal doesn't work at the bank, 6.5% interest right now today. I don't have a huge problem with your pricing, but your rents just aren't quite there. So we're talking with the broker, they are talking to the owner. The owner wants a certain price. The numbers don't quite get there yet, but they're close. And we have an easy way with our management plan to get the value of this property up. So what are we going to do? Come in with a lower interest rate. Hey, this only works seller financed. I'm super happy as soon as we get the value and the approval from the bank. I'm super happy to refinance you, but let's do 5-year seller refi— seller finance with an understanding that if in year 2 the bank says yes, we'll go ahead and refinance this as long as the deal works. This is the business plan, but this is what we have to do to get you your price. Awesome. What have we done here? We've done the same exact thing. We found creative finance when you worked with the seller, but we first negotiated the deal. Then we found the problem that the seller has, which was actually price. And then we came up with a solution that solved that. The fact that it happened to bypass the banks and get a whole bunch of advantages to us isn't why they said yes. It is great for us, but it's not why they said yes. This is the mindset shift that you have to do if you really want creative finance, especially here in 2026. A lot of these deals are getting listed on market right now. I just had a rep from a small little company called Blackstone reach out and ask me to buy one of their deals. It's the first time they've reached out to us. This is how I'm playing the game right now is people are shifting their portfolios. 2026, debt's coming due. People are re— a bunch of the big companies, if you want to know that, like the, my, my secret to like buying tons of real estate, a lot of the big companies right now are pulling their properties into core markets. So anything in tertiary or secondary markets, they're trimming from the portfolio. I love managing in markets where there's less competition. So a secondary or tertiary market that's doing very well, if the large, large, large super corporations want to exit those markets, I'm more than happy to take their properties. And when they want to shift, they want to shift. So they're like, yeah, we're flexible on price. We have a new mission. Our mission is to exit this market. We obviously don't want to lose money on this, but you can actually negotiate it with them and they're pretty easy to negotiate with. So those are out there right now. You have, uh, right now boomers are turning 80. Boomers, awesome, good, you know, you guys have had a good run. You guys hold a lot of the real estate. A lot of them are deciding whether they want to pass it on to their kids or whether they want to sell them. And for a lot of the time, the kids don't want the real estate. So, um, a lot of those are shifting hands right now from that factor. Then you have all of the syndicators who came in and bought deals and did their math assuming that rates were going to stay at 3% forever, which was stupid. And we all know that that obviously did not happen. Uh, those— all the— that's coming due like that this year. We're up 52% in loans coming due from this year to last year. Those 3%, like, this is the wave. So you have 3 major, major, major economic factors that are giving a crazy amount of opportunity. But if you attack these from the beginning as, hey, I'm going to solve for the debt and then I'm going to match that debt product to the deal and then I'm going to try to raise capital, what's going to happen is you're going to get a ton of nos. And if you've tried this, it's probably already happened to you. Everyone is rejecting your offers. Creative finance feels like it's elusive. I've never tried to get creative finance. I always try to work the deal. And as a result, 70, maybe 75% of my deals are seller financed. Uh, recently in Multifamily Strategy, I actually pulled up my schedule, real estate owned. That's like the list of every deal, how it's financed, what I owe. We went through the debt and I'm like, yeah, it, it A lot of it's still seller financed. I have some direct with Fannie, uh, Fannie Mae. I have some bank debt. I have some credit union debt and a ton of seller financing. It's often a solution that works for all parties, but if you make it about your credentials or you needing seller finance, I promise you this, nobody cares what you need. If I am selling a deal, I do not care what you need as the seller. Like, I, I can like you fine, but you're coming in and you're trying to buy my business. It needs to make sense to me. Analogy that I use often, and if you've been on this channel a while, you've probably heard this, but if you're going after the financing first, it's like going to a— uh, imagine you go to a car dealership, you want to buy a truck, and they don't have any trucks, and you're asking them all these different, uh, you know, well, what, what should I budget for a down payment? I don't know, it depends on what truck we get then. Um, okay, uh, what, what color will the should I expect the truck to be? It depends on what we get in. If you're trying to shop the deal and the debt product before you know what it is you're financing, it doesn't make any sense. So don't open with the debt, open with the deal. Figure out what they want for it, figure out what the obstacles are. Why hasn't the deal already sold? If a deal's been sitting around on market on like CREXi, which is where I bought a ton of deals off CREXi, if a deal is sitting on CREXi for for a year. There's one thing that you know about it for sure: everyone has seen it, and there's some reason that it hasn't traded. So it's price, it's terms, it's— there's something going on with the building. So a normal question is going to be, hey, instead of asking about the financing, which makes no sense yet, let's talk about the actual investment vehicle. Hey, this has been on market for a year. This looks like exactly what I want to buy. Super excited you took my call today. Quick question for you: What has held this thing back from being sold? It's been around for a while. Normal question, you're not going to offend anyone. You talk to the broker. Oh, well, there's this little maintenance thing that's been going on. And this— I get this one all the time, especially in Texas, because there's crappy PMs in Texas, property managers. I get this all the time. Oh yeah, the property manager just hasn't been good. They fired 3 of them. They're struggling with lease-up. The building is in great condition. Uh, we have too much vacancy. Someone needs to come in and be a better operator. And oftentimes on this midsize multifamily, you get to the real backstory. It's an investment group out of like New York or New Jersey or Florida or wherever, Californians who bought these deals. They don't know how to run them. They're not managing their manager. And so they have high vacancy. I see this all the time. So for me, I'm like, okay, here's my plan. I own a property management company. I'm going to fix this. Your plan will be unique to you. If you're a contractor and you're like, hey, I can fix things. Like, awesome. You're gonna, you're gonna do a better job renovating other people, but you figure out what the problem is. Then you decide, is it a problem that I want to solve? And if so, now you start working on, it's like, okay, uh, let me get my numbers, get back to you. I call the broker back usually in about 15 minutes. Hey, this is what I think that this is worth. I've talked to my lender. This is where we're thinking value's gonna peg out at. If they're okay with that, it is okay if you just win on price to buy with a bank and you can stick equity partners on this. You can buy no-to-low money down with the bank. You don't need creative finance to close a good deal. You just don't. Your qualifications don't matter. Your credit score doesn't matter. There's a billion ways to play. Well, there's not— there's like 7, but there's a lot of ways to play the game, and you can get conventional financing. You are not barred from getting conventional financing. Uh, there are so many different workarounds. Um, I could do a whole multi-hour episode on it. For the creative finance, if it is a solution to the problems that you discover in the deal, then you propose it. And if your solution solves their problem, you get it accepted every single time. Um, a little bit more context. While I have 650 units, I'm under contract for an 80-unit, another 80-unit, uh, probably tomorrow we're gonna find out that we're under contract for a 30-unit, and I'm about to go under contract for a 200-unit potentially in East Texas. So my pipeline is full. There's also a Midland deal, uh, that is huge. I'm buying a ton of stuff. I'm not asking people to sell deals. I'm just solving problems that people have. It is a talk track that is very easy, but I just— this is the lesson from today. You are not looking for money. You are not looking for financing. You are looking for opportunities. And if that opportunity is answered by financing, now you are stuck with a deal that makes money with day one cash flow and a plan to make even more money. Pitching people on a deal that is already making money, that's scheduled to make more money, with a solid business plan is not a hard thing to do because you are not the only person who is looking for a deal in these markets who wants to make money in real estate. That is the easy part, but it has to go in the order. So I hope this helped. Um, I keep getting this question, uh, for the last 6 years: where are you finding these seller finance deals? I am not. I'm finding deals and then I'm closing them. We just happen to do a lot of creative finance because creative finance solves a lot of other people's problems. All right, let's go answer some of the questions here from the chat. I'll toss these up on the screen. Uh, 940 Construction, uh, I'm going to guess that when I mentioned competitive advantage, this may be someone who has competitive advantage on, um, on construction. Just educated guess, don't know why I think that. Uh, how does it work if the owner still has, um, a loan on the building? Can you give an example? On how you do that. So, uh, owner still has a loan on the building. Uh, I have had a deal. This is in Union, Washington. So, uh, we bought this White House next to the Robin Hood Village Resort where I'm hosting my event. Shameless plug, uh, July 30th through August 1st are the two main days, but I'm doing a 14-session full event at my seller finance resort on exactly how to play the game. It's gonna be super fun. Uh, it's almost full. We can host up to 100 people. We have like 80 Um, but you guys can check that out. Um, I'll drop a link. There's a link on my Instagram @ChristianOsgood. Check it out there. Um, but to answer your question directly, um, the answer for them, they had a little bit of debt on it. They're like, you know what, actually we're, we're in a good position to do this. We'll go ahead and pay off our remaining debt. And, um, they wrote a 3-year note and then we paid, paid off their loan, refinanced it. Um, so one, they could pay off their debt and then seller finance to you. Uh, two, your down payment needs to be in excess of what they owe. On that first 38-plex I bought, That was seller financed. They owed about $250,000 on it. They wanted $300,000 down. So it's a 15% down, low down deal, seller financed, 4% interest, long-term note. So we got everything in our favor. Then, um, all we had to do there, close the deal, uh, refinance, pays off that note. That's now in conventional bank financing. Then Cody refinanced again to buy me out, and then Cody refinanced again like this week, to get a whole bunch of cash again. It's like a never-ending ATM. Uh, that particular deal, uh, uh, praised at $3.8 million the last time I saw an appraisal on it. We bought it for $2 million like 5 years ago. Uh, crazy what real estate will do in that period of time. Uh, so that's another way to do it. Uh, yet another way you can do bank financing to knock out the seller portion, and the seller can carry the remainder.. So I've done one deal where it was bank and seller for 100% of the financing. It was actually technically 102.5% financed. Um, got an amazing price on it and the bank was okay with that. More often banks like a 50/40/10 sort of split where the banks come in 50%, the seller holds 40%, and then you and/or equity partners you can raise for these, um, do 10%. So that's 3 of several examples. Um, but, uh, avoid the one that is, uh, don't do subject to. If they have— don't leave the debt in their name. That is a stupid idea, um, that is marketed. There's a use for that clause, and it is not acquiring a ton of real estate. It is like very niche. They own a teeny amount left over on a loan and don't want to pay it off, and you come up with a plan to pay it off if the note gets called. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole. I just want to share with you— there's 4 examples that I can think of off the top of my head. There's a bunch of other ways to do it. So you're not limited by them having debt. The only thing they can't do is fully seller finance it in the event that there is debt on the property without a subject-to clause, which absolutely avoid. It's a great way to lose real estate. All right. Mr. Rodrell DeAndrade, I think I said that right. It's all in one word on the screen, so there's no spaces and it's hard for me to read behind my camera. Camera. But if I said that correctly, I'm glad this is well-timed. Uh, this is a question that I got more this last 2 weeks than I have probably in the last 2 years. Uh, so I figured, uh, I didn't have to think much about our topic for today. Um, I always like to choose something kind of relevant for the live, so I'm glad that I hit that. Um, sellers are still asking for an unrealistic price. Here's the rule with seller financing: you can win on terms instead of price, but you cannot massively overpay for property. So they're completely unrealistic. Um, don't let someone convince you to overpay for a property. I did that for the Robin Hood Village Resort. I spent the next 3 years in absolute agony figuring out how to make the resort worth what I paid for it, which cost me a lot of money, uh, and a lot of stress. The answer, if anyone's curious, uh, run a ton of events, um, get someone to lease part of the Robin Hood as a music venue, uh, get a whole bunch of major summer events, open a marketing budget, and plant 250,000 bulbs to extend your peak season. Uh, if you don't want to go through that much pain, don't overpay for a property even if it is seller financed. So, uh, you can do a little overpay if you have an easy way to get to the upside. You're like, yeah, we're going to increase rents, we're going to do all this, we get low interest, and I get time to get through my project. If they're unrealistic on price, usually my answer is like, well, this is where the bank's at. If the bank's at, I'm at, I'm in. And then they'll come back to you 3 to 6 months later and say, wow, no one else bought it. I wonder why no one else wanted to overpay for it. There's also a theory. The owner of the Robinhood, when I explained to them, like, hey, I think we overpaid for this, we're having a little bit of trouble trying to figure this out, can you guys help? Uh, his suggestion, uh, I'm not kidding, this was the actual phone call. He's like, have you ever heard of the bigger idiot? I was like, no, what is the— what is this? He always has a name for every method. He's like, you guys were stupid when you bought this from me for that price. 'You're just looking for someone who's dumber than you.' I'm like, 'Oh, thank you, um, great business advice.' It's not, uh, instead of doing that, we just came in and fixed the problems, and now it's doing really well. Robinhood is up 43% from where it was last year. Can you assume the mortgage and get a supplemental loan? Ooh. Good question. I do like this question. Uh, can you assume the mortgage and get a supplemental loan? Answer: yes, sometimes. Um, if it's assumable loan and the lender is okay with this. Oftentimes when I'm coming into deals, I'm going to be— my specialty is management. We do construction, we do all this other, you know, I've done most of what you can do in real estate, but my absolute area of genius on my team is our ability to rapidly lease with excellent tenants. We are really good at marketing apartments and really good at leasing and maintaining tenants. So if I know that's where I can make the most money, that's my favorite type of deal to do. When I come into projects, it's obviously, uh, or often it is a conversation with the lender, the existing lender, just saying, okay, here's our business plan for the property. Obviously property, if it's lower vacant or lower occupancy, you guys have a problem. Current operations are not fixing this. See, you guys' risk is elevated. Here's my plan to lower your risk. You just pitch them to them like they're a bank. Banks hate risk, so we're eliminating risk. I'm going to come in and with this marketing plan and with, you know, I'll give them my track record, but if you're starting, you know, you don't have to have a track record. Just tell them what you have. Here's where I'm at. Here's my business plan. Here is my plan to solve your problem. I'm going to get the performance of this building up. I will assume this loan, reduce your risk. We'll assume that note and then we work with them. Will you allow us to have a second? Oftentimes they will. A deal that I am working on right now, we're going to call this, it's in my 50% bucket for going under contract. We're close, but we, no one said yes officially. So I, there's always stuff in the, in the hopper. The structure for the deal, the seller wants, the seller knows they overpaid for it. They've done a lot of good deals. When we called them, it's a big deal. It's a 100+ unit building. They're like, hey, look, we know we overpaid for this back in 2021. We're fine with this. We're doing really well financially. We've done a bunch of other good deals. This is just one of those ones that didn't work out. And so we've accepted. We're not making any money on it. We're willing to cut our losses, sell it for exactly what we bought it for. It's performing better than it was when they bought it. So I'm looking at it saying like, okay, we're not quite there on price. And then we talked to the bank and the bank said, actually, Actually, if you would pay down this loan by, um, if you paid down this loan by, I believe it is a million dollars, so this would make the loan from $11.5 to $10.5 million, um, you can just assume this loan, what that would be for us on this particular project is 12% down. So I can buy almost 200 units for like $2 million, and they're really nice. We're talking like full gym, pool, computer labs, beautiful, beautiful. What an easy capital raise. Hey, we need to multiply 12% down. Um, so that's a perfect example of this. Um, we didn't need the supplemental loan in this, but it would be a very, very similar concept to what I'm doing right now. We would just— the conversation with the bank would be, hey, to get our leverage point correctly, a seller would like to carry a little bit back. Do you mind if you're in first position on this? Does that— is that going to be an issue for you? And typically the answer is no if you're doing a good deal. They're usually fine with that. Do you— I assume you meant to say have, um, but do you have a construction crew in Texas for your Texas projects? I have many crews in Texas and I'm always looking for more. I have projects in Houston, in Stephenville, and in Abilene that are active right now. Um, my leasing team has done so well that I have 4 crews working full-time in Abilene, and we are leasing faster than they can turn units, which is— I hate bottlenecks, but it's the best bottleneck you can have in the business. If we're doing so good at the main thing that we just can't get units ready fast enough, and we have contractors who are ripping through them. Um, but yes, um, I do have construction crews in Texas. I'm always looking for more. I hired a new one today for Stephenville. Uh, because my Stephenville contractor is helping me in Abilene, and my other contractor, uh, who I use a ton— uh, you know what, I, I shouldn't do this because other people are gonna find them, but his name's Daniel Seals. He's amazing. He's in Stephenville. Um, don't steal him from me. He is— I love working with this kid. Um, he's got a whole bunch of business from Tarleton University. They're having— they need help turning their units, so they're bringing in all the private contractors Uh, so I'm competing with the rapidly expanding college right now, which is kind of frustrating. Um, so I do have construction crews in Texas. Um, I do not bring them in-house. We're very, very good at leasing, at accounting, at compliance, and I focus all of my attention there. Um, I don't want to have another company because I run Multifamily Strategy and I run property management and I run the acquisitions and three companies being the CEO of is actually quite hard. I don't want to have a, uh, fourth branch where I have more employees and a whole nother thing to think about. So I think we are more excellent by not doing it in-house, though you can make money on any model. Uh, Dean Franzen asked what the coaching program's like. Um, disclaimer, this is not an ad for Multifamily Strategy. Uh, YouTube, I share all the information for free because information should be free, which should tell you something about the mentorship. Uh, the information's free, so I will not— I never gatekeep information. And with the AI era, I don't think I could. Um, the mentorship is my time and my team's time, uh, making sure that 100% of these students who join Multifamily Strategy successfully close on a multifamily deal, ideally between 5 and 50 units for your first one, uh, within the first 6 months. And so it is structured 3 ways. There's a course that goes alongside it, which is about 5% of the value, not to sell you information, but to clearly organize the information for the mentorship so you can go through it in an order that makes sense. And then we focus on applying that information. So, you know, the analytics, the legal, the contracts, the scripts for owners and brokers and so on is all going to be in there. We meet 3 times a week on Monday— weeks— we meet 3 times a week on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. I am on every single call, 152 calls a year, um, unless I'm flying. So let's say I'm on 150 of 152 calls a year. Um, and we go— Monday is Q&A day, network with about 50 other investors at a given time around the country, ask questions, I answer them. Super fun. Tuesday's deal deep dive day. We're gonna break into regions. Cody Davis takes the West Coast, I take the South, Phil takes the Midwest, and Garrison takes the Southeast. East, and you're looking at deals in your markets with investors who have bought in your markets, who have been through multifamily strategy. They're giving feedback on the deals, they're helping you negotiate, they're helping raise capital. Then we hop back to the main room and I'm there, and I'll also weigh on your deals. I'm also jumping around rooms. Again, it's a mentorship. You actually get me, unlike literally everyone else online. And lastly is Thursdays, which is a structured lesson. So last week or the week before, um, I hopped on, I let the mentees choose their market. They go, hey, uh, call this area in Michigan. I pull up deals and I negotiate the deals live on the call so you can see exactly how it's done. And I love doing that. They're super fun. I've actually had students buy deals that we negotiated off of that call. We've done mock broker calls recently, a run through the calculator, but we'll do a structured lesson on those days. Outside of that, you need anything else, you've paid for my time. I, I help people one-on-one, probably 4 to 6 hours of my day is just hopping in with mentees, going through their deals, helping them raise capital. That's what the program looks like. I'm not pitching it. You can join if you want, but I'm not pitching it here. But the main selling point is that you actually get my time. PM is awesome. Property management company takes about 2 hours of my time. Acquisition takes like 20 minutes a day. It's consistent 20 minutes a day, but it just doesn't take that much time. So it's what I do with most of my time, which is why I have like 2,500 videos on YouTube is I actually have time to teach this stuff. That's, that's what the real estate is for. So hope that answers your question. Rodell, please touch on managing assets yourself. I need to move my camera so it's not directly in front of this, but moving the asset or managing the assets yourself rather than underwriting management into the deal at 8-10%. Okay. Always underwrite management into the deal. If it's a larger deal, you might get that management fee down from 8 to 10, but every bank is always going to add that back into your math whenever you go to financing anyway. So you're always going to underwrite it so it works with that. Now, you make an extra 8 to 10% of actual cash flow if you math it in, your deal works, and then you choose to self-manage. Um, what I typically would recommend, and this is just from a ton of times doing What I would recommend on, uh, on self-management, if you have partners, so if you raise capital for the deal and you are doing work, deal structure, finding the deal, putting together the, the debt, the equity, uh, bringing capital to the deal, these are all things that deserve equity and ownership of the deal. Ongoing task, the longer you own the deal where you're just doing management by yourself for free, the more inequitable the equities become, right? If you did this for 1 year, then you might have got more equity than you deserve. If you have to manage it for 5 years and you're just the one self-managing, you have partners who aren't really all that active, you probably deserve more equity than you got. So the way to compensate that is out of salary. So you should still have a management fee, in my opinion, to yourself, even if you're self-managing, if you have partners. If you have no partners and you just buy your own deal, you just make an extra 8 to 10%. Keep it in your underwriting, keep it in your math. Do not pull management out of your math because banks will not count that. That is an operating expense that you have to factor for. It is assumed that most people buying it are factoring in for PM. So keep that 8%, uh, 8 to 10 in there. Um, you can let your— so if you did a syndication, so in this case LPs, I do a lot of JVs. I've done 3 syndications and done 20 9? No, 28 partnerships, 1 deal that I just totally did just only by myself, and, uh, 3 deals that are syndicated. So if you have LPs, um, they don't care if you're managing yourself, but I would let— I would show them the math of, hey, this is with management, um, we are planning on increasing this by even more. So you show them the numbers of the value that you're bringing by self-managing, um, and you can absolutely do that. Um, but always do your underwrite with those numbers on managing, uh, on management fees. That's super important. I see that missed often when people think that their deal's better because they're self-managing. Your deal's not better, your cash flow is just higher. That doesn't relate to the value of your building because someone else paying for it doesn't have you self-managing it for free. I see that as a way all the time on, uh, And people are new to the mentorship. That's one of the first things I see in the calculator. They're like, hey, my deal's really good. I'm like, so your business plan is everything you buy for the rest of your life, you're gonna self-manage? Like, nope. Then you gotta factor for management fees on everything. That is it for the questions that we have here. So I hope you guys enjoyed this as much as I did. Um, the topic's huge and if you guys joined a little bit later, the, the, the main message here. Don't look for seller financing. Don't try to force creative financing, uh, because you're rarely gonna find it. Do deals and underwrite deals where they're worth and make offers on deals because you can close them with or without creativity. What will happen organically is the sellers will get back with their actual objections, and oftentimes creativity will solve that problem. But the difference now is you're solving a them problem, not a you problem. And if you do that, you get a yes every single time and you get a lot of creativity, which is why I never look for creative finance and more than half my deals have been creatively financed. So I hope that helps. I hope the timing of that is, is helpful for you as you were watching this. And I appreciate you all. We do this at the same time every single Wednesday. So come back for that. If you guys want to do a quick little masterclass on how we're structuring the creative finance, top of the hour here. So 22 minutes from right now, if you are watching this live, you can go to multifamilystrategy.com/masterclass. Workshop and register for the webinar that I'm going to be hosting here in about, uh, yeah, 22 minutes. So love to see you guys there. If not, I will see you guys on the next episode and hopefully see you back here next Wednesday.