Make Millions From Seller Financing Off Market Property's

My thing is the details. Company logo, no homebuyer@gmail.com. You know, just being professional and painting this picture like we're this big, big, big operation when really we're just a bunch of grinders trying to make it happen.

Welcome back to another episode of Multifamily Strategy. I'm your channel host, Christian Osgood, joined today by Spencer Weinberg. Spencer, welcome to the channel, man. Welcome to the pod.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.

Absolutely. This is gonna be a fun episode. So we have a lot of operators, a lot, lot of operators. And we've had developers, multifamily, mobile home parks, you name it, we've had on this channel. We have never interviewed someone whose primary business is wholesale. And I've had thoughts on wholesale before, and I'm really excited to dive into this and hear how you ended up on the business you're at. What got you into that, how the business works. And I just want to really get takeaways for our audience on why it is you chose that as your path to make money in real estate, because there are a lot of ways to play the game. Spencer, before we end up to where you're at, my first question for you is, where did you begin? Before the business, before the real estate, what was your starting point before you dove in all this?

Uh, so I grew up a small town in Colorado, Grand Junction. About 50,000 people. And, you know, I think the median household income is still about $50,000, which, you know, you just didn't see a lot of money. You didn't see a lot of nice stuff there. So, I mean, I always had dreams of, you know, more. And my outlet to get to California was tennis, you know. So I— my background's tennis. I love to coach, love to teach. So I got to travel around the world and teach tennis. Before landing here in California. So, um, it's amazing.

Why did you do that?

I've been playing tennis my whole life. Again, small town, me and my dad would just go out with a bucket of balls and just play all the time and ended up getting a scholarship to the local, uh, college there. And that kind of, you know, blew me up in my career as far as, you know, getting to travel for free and teach and meet all these crazy people. You know, my first gig out of college, I was teaching in the Hamptons and going— Yeah. So I was in West Hampton living in some guy's basement, getting to teach just wealthy, wealthy people at their estates, you know, take—

Wow. Rough gig.

Yeah. So I mean, it was, you know, it was $150 an hour. We'd take half and then we'd get tipped out and I was just running to people's houses all day long. So.

That's fantastic.

So, I mean, the common trend of all these people was real estate, finance, insurance. So, I really got upfront to how people made a fortune in these industries just by teaching tennis and relationships. So, that kind of got the wheels turning. I want to be the guy that has the house having some kid come teach me and my family something and pay them $150 an hour. I want to be on that side of the table. You know what I mean? And that's kind of when the path started.

So you're teaching the rich how to play tennis, living in a basement in one of the most expensive places you could possibly coach tennis. You're in the Hamptons and you're looking around going, your first thought is, how do I get to where these people are? I love that. Something we say all the time here. Everything that you want to do, someone else has done for the most part. And everything that you want, someone else has. If you network with people and you goal set around like, hey, this is real and there's a way to do it, why can't I do it? That's the first thing most people start off for success. That's fantastic that you did that. Now the Hamptons, that is not California where you currently reside. How'd you end up in Cali?

So yeah, California. So Hamptons was seasonal, right? You hit everybody in the summer. And then I ended up getting a gig at a resort in Palm Desert, California. So, you know, 9 months out of the year I was in Palm Desert, same thing, teaching at high-end resort, meeting all these crazy people, spending $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 a week on their vacations. And, you know, in Palm Desert, most of them were coming from Orange County, LA, San Diego, where, you know, again, same trend, real estate, insurance. Banking. And, you know, that's kind of when I decided to quit tennis, drive Uber, and go to real estate school. And that's kind of how my path started. And that was Palm— in Palm Desert, California.

Okay, so we go from tennis, we go to real estate school. When did the first deal come around for you?

So I, I ended up getting a position with, uh, with the hedge fund in Orange County. You know, I was making $1,000 a month driving around. They were— their focus was fix and flip. So fast forward, it took me 9 months to get my first condo flip in San Diego. And, you know, it's like, all right, you got the deal, now go manage it, go do the construction, go find your contractor, you know, go sell it when it's done. So I mean, um, hang on. So, um, you know, I got the experience on the construction side Managing. And after that first deal, as you know, 9 months really grinding through it, driving Uber. The world just kind of opens up after that first deal. Got another deal, got another deal, and then really started, you know, just being able to learn the fix and flip business to where I wasn't making that much money, but the experience that I got was forever. And it was basically like a master's degree for free in luxury real estate.

Just had someone on the pod named Matt was talking about this, the importance beyond the money, the importance of building these skills while you're working for someone else or even when you're working for yourself. But those entry-level skills before you make it are so important. When you were going through those first few transactions, was there one skill that you found that you were particularly good at or is there What were the things that you learned that helped you build the business that you have today during that season?

That's a great question. So the biggest skill that I had was the communication factor of the, you know, getting my offer accepted because back then we were working directly with real estate agents, MLS. So being able to get my offer accepted even though I wasn't the highest, you know, I wasn't the strongest, but, you know, the conviction that I was going to get the deal done and closed for their client. I really figured that the sales and just the communication side of it was where I strived. It's not an aggressive approach. It's not a beat my chest and sales approach. It was more like, how do we collaborate to get to the end goal? And that's where I learned that sales was, to me, my vehicle, not necessarily the construction of flips or the design. Even though I liked it, it was the sales and marketing which segued me into my current business.

So, let's talk about this a little bit. So, you were doing a lot of fix and flip. How much volume were you doing at the peak of fix and flip, by the way?

I mean, we were probably doing $60, $70 million in transactions per year in the fix and flip space. So, buying these houses at $800,000, $900,000, putting $200,000 into it, trying to get $1.4, $1.5 for them, doing it at scale.

That seems— that's quite a business. And so for those listening, you eventually pivot out of that as your primary business, fix and flip. That is a crazy amount of volume to pivot out of. So for the few who don't know, I think most people do, but wholesaling, give us the basic mechanics on it. What is a wholesale deal as opposed to a fix and flip?

Yeah, that's a great question. So wholesale deal, basically we're getting an agreement between the seller and us that we have the equitable rights in the property. We can take that equitable rights, that contract, and assign it to an investor that wants to go fix and flip the property. So people always ask me, what do you do? What do you do? And instead of saying wholesaling, I say we buy and sell off-market real estate. So, you know, we're selling contracts that are off-market to our investors. I'm getting a property at $500,000. I'm trying to sell it to my investor for $550,000, $525,000. And we're not touching a paintbrush. We're not, you know, demoing. It's just get the contract, get the deal, package it up, sell it out to our network.

Now, when you're having success in flipping, I mean, you had a pretty well-scaled operation going. When you're having that level of success, what triggered you to say, hey, we need to pivot from what we're doing right now and do this differently?

So yeah, that's a good question. So I was working for a hedge fund, so they were the ones, you know, bringing the capital. They had the LPG structures. And I, I noticed we're putting, you know, on the equity side, $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 into these projects. To try to make $100,000, $150,000. And to me, that just didn't really make sense with all the risk involved in the transactions. So, you know, I had to go take my deals, pitch them why they were a good fix and flip. One deal they passed on, I ended up giving it to a friend who's been bugging me for deals.

We—

I did my first wholesale deal in 2020 or early 2021, made that quick money and 10 to 15 days, and the rest was kind of history for me.

Okay.

So yeah, I went backwards, right? Usually you start wholesaling to get the capital to go fix and flip, then start developing, where I did it all backwards. I knew the fix and flip business, and I knew the numbers and where investors needed to be at, but then I used that knowledge to really scale our wholesale business.

Well, I think what you did makes a lot of sense with what you said earlier. You're like, what is your, what are your skills? Okay, I developed sales and marketing. I'm good at sales and marketing. What's the highest velocity piece of real estate if you eliminate everything else outside of sales and marketing? Like sales and marketing, if you're just doing that, you have more velocity in wholesaling plus risk mitigation. Like how much do you risk on a wholesale deal? What do you do to protect yourself from downside in a wholesale?

So our protection is a, you know, when we get a property under agreement, we have a showing, one-time showing for our investors. Bring your contractors, bring your architects, bring whoever you need to bring. It's a nonrefundable deposit. Obviously, it's much more than, you know, we have agreed with the seller. So that way, if anything happens on that deal, you know, the deposit is hard and, you know, we can leverage that deposit if if there's, you know, any, any rockiness in the transaction.

How many transactions are you doing on average right now?

It's a tough question because we, uh, we do it in SoCal. So I mean, you know, we're, we're averaging anywhere from $200,000 to $300,000 in wholesale fees, whether that's 5 deals or 10 deals. It's usually 6 to 8 deals a month.

That's still not half bad.

Yeah.

How does one go and to scale this business? You have the sales and marketing skills. There's a lot of competition here. Wholesaling, widely thanks to BiggerPockets, but also a lot of other players. There's a lot of content, a lot, lot of content out there about wholesaling and using wholesaling as a way to get started in real estate, which I, I kind of like the way you did it. You found what you're best at and you just, you know, I'm gonna double, triple down in this. For you, what works to scale a company like that where you're actually doing volume when you have so much competition in the space?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great point. You know, obviously we started with 5 cold callers, started having success with the cold calling and the lists, you know, really getting in front of the sellers directly. And then we started allocating more to, you know, a text budget, started converting, then we started hiring. And then we went to the pay-per-click. And now it just, you know, kind of snowballs from there once you start having leads come in where you can start building and scaling an operation. Because most guys, you know, they want to go on pay-per-click and they don't have the budgets. You know, our budget, I think we started with $4,000 a month. That was 3 callers, a list, a CRM. You know, we didn't get so complicated with it. And we just gradually, you know, it was the snowball effect to where, you know, last week we just went to, we had a big tour at Google because we're one of their highest paid customers in the pay-per-click space in our industry. So, you know, now we have a whole Google team dedicated to our account to make sure that, you know, we're running smoothly. You know, directors, everybody was flying in to meet us from San Francisco because we're one of their biggest clients now. But it started with that $4,000 budget with cold— we call it cold outbound marketing. Cold outbound marketing means you're reaching out to that prospect. They don't know who you are. They don't have any idea what you want. And you're trying to generate business cold versus inbound, which is TV, radio, pay-per-click, mailers.

What was the original goal going into this? Taking it back a little bit, you scaled multiple businesses in real estate relatively quickly, very large. Your ability to operate and scale is really impressive. What was the original motivation behind that? Was it really just like a, hey, I saw these rich people's houses and I want that for my family? Or is there some specific like, I need to hit this, therefore I built my business to X?

Again, I mean, going back to the fix and flip and the capital and just how extensive it was with with, you know, how much money was required in these projects. Um, you know, the ultimate goal was to not manage the projects, not do the work, not have the city involved in permits. The goal, I guess, for me was to do less, not knowing that I'm doing a lot more now, but it's more of what I enjoy. So the goal was to get out of relying on other capital partners and other investors to raise money to buy deals where now, you know, our marketing dollars is our money and I don't have to report to anybody. So I guess to your point, the ultimate goal was freedom and being able to do it our way without having $300,000, $400,000 to have to come up with to close on a property and flip it.

You're in a fun business where it's spend money to make money. It's very cut and dry, high margin. Sales and marketing. You send out your marketing dollars, you need those marketing dollars to have a yield, they come back, get a contract, sell the contract. I love the business as a salesperson. I love the model. You start with a $4,000 budget. How do you determine when it's time to scale and how do you manage that risk as far as the, the marketing gamble of we're going to put out this much and we hope to bring back this much? How do you make those decisions to scale a company as quickly as you—

That's a great question. So, you know, I try to run quarterly, 6-month, 9-month, 12-month reports. And as we started, you know, when we first started, it was just how do we get revenue in the door? And then we looked at it from a 6-month game plan on, on cold call. And it's like, man, we spent $15,000 to make $70,000, right? So we're at a 4 or 5x on the money. It's like, okay, let's hire another caller. Let's hire another caller. You know, you don't want to go too big too soon, but at the same time, you got to look at that return and know that you're getting that type of return on your cash quickly. So it's like, how do we— what other channels do we need to get in front of these people and what returns are these getting? So for example, 6 months, we're 4x our cold call. Marketing dollars. Well, how do we get— how much do we need to spend on text? Run that for 3 months. Run that for 6 months. What's, what's the ROI on those dollars? Okay, now, now we need another vertical of leads. Now we got more guys coming in the door helping us call and doing the sales process with us. You know, let's, let's keep the ball rolling.

One of the first mentors I ever had, he was a genius with business ideas, but no ability to integrate, like horrible operator, really good visionary. But, but had too much ego to empower people to come in and make his business better. That was his downfall. One thing that he did that he messed up is he built a call center and when it wasn't making enough money, his immediate— it just wasn't turned around. He was doing lead gen for his brokerage. I think there's a better way to build it, but that's what he was doing. Collect data, get lead gen. His solution was, it's not making money yet. What I need to do is double the size of my call center. And of course, being business people, we know that's the— throwing more money at the thing that's not working is never the answer. Yes, you need to innovate or move around that. What you said, and I think this is a huge takeaway for anyone in real estate, in business, incremental growth, especially in the marketing game. Don't assume because I made $10 for every dollar I spent, if I spend $2, I'm going to make $20.

It's—

that's not how marketing works. It's incremental, it's measured, and it's a ton of data. You run the reports, it's like, hey, when we invested this, we yielded this. If we increase by 10%, what does that do? And then you use your creativity and go like, okay, while I'm building this, whatever the vertical you're in— could be mailers, could be dialers, could be cold call, whatever it is— you're thinking of other verticals to get out in front of people and measuring the yield on that. Well done, first of all, doing that correctly. How did you know to do that in your business? Like, was this something where you just sat down and you're like, this is clearly right? Or was this, did you have a mentor or someone who was like, hey, when you scale, this is how you don't screw this up?

We had a mentor, but again, these guys, once we started getting rolling, they weren't doing it at our level at a certain point. So I mean, if my business partner is more like, let's do it and figure it out later, where, you know, for me, for me, if he didn't push me to really grow it, we'd probably still be spending, you know, $4,000, $5,000 a month where he's like, dude, look how much money we're making. Let's just go. And it was my job instead of, yeah, double it. It's like, well, let's incrementally scale it and see the results. Now it's like, you know, in December we spent $20,000 on TV and radio and just dropped it and we got crushed in that marketing platform. Does it work? Of course it works. We just weren't running it long enough and we went too big. So, I mean, we're tweaking and twisting and, you know, adapting and pivoting because again, right now texting regulations are very tight. Cold call regulations are very tight, and luckily for us, we have the resources and the budgets now to really go big on inbound marketing. And we're not afraid to lose money to make more money. So like, we're not stopping radio and TV just because we went belly up one month. It's again the 3-month, the 6-month, the 9-month, the 12-month results where, you know, most guys get in the business and they run 3 months, don't get a deal, and they're gone. Where, you know, we look at the numbers still and it's like, how do we get rid of cold call? It's a— it's still up over 3, 4 years. It's still a 3 or 4x return on our money. How do we just shut down cold call even though we know inbound leads are the biggest revenue source? It's like we can't shut down these platforms because over time our return on our cash is just too good.

That— so this is fun. So with your partner, they're pushing— they push the growth. It sounds like you push the systems really hard. Is it the classic visionary integrator relationship, or is what— is he the visionary and you're the make-it-happen guy?

I would say I'm more of the visionary, make-it-happen. He's more sales, You know, I'm more marketing and he's just big, big sales. So if I get leads and stuff in the door, I know he's going to get it done and we're going to keep scaling. So it's my job to make sure leads are coming in and managing the budget so that he can go out and produce. And, you know, we got 10 acquisition disposition people in our office. So at this point, it's like I need to get 50 to 100 leads in the door a day. And, you know, the problem with inbound marketing is the cost per lead in our space is so high. You know, we're spending $400 or $500 per lead on some of these deals. On the flip side, our average deal size is so big that it's worth spending that money. For example, gosh, that's insane.

Price per lead has just gone up and up and up. I didn't realize it was that high.

It's so high because it's so competitive because, again, our deal size is so big. Like we're with our Google account people and they go, the 3 biggest search engines right now in Google, Google Ads, it's car windshield replacement, ceramic wrap coating for your car, and sell my house fast for cash.

Huh. And that makes sense. They're all big tickets.

Well, so windshield replacement, maybe it's $1,000, right? But you're spending $300, $400 for that lead. Car ceramic coating, maybe it's $5,000 per deal. But wholesale, it's like sometimes that deal can be $100,000, $150,000. So, so you got to look at our scale and our margins where any deal that comes through the door could be a six-figure deal where no really other business can, can produce that type of revenue off of one lead.

Is there a favorite deal that your company's done? Do you have one where I'm like, dude, this was the coolest deal ever?

I got two. One was one we bought in Ridgecrest, California. Purchase price was $20,000 and our wholesale fee was $40,000. So, we made double the amount on our fee than the house was worth. Completely. So that makes sense.

That's pretty good.

So like if you're a traditional agent, you sell it for 2-3%, you're making what, $500? You know, we ended up selling that for $60,000 and our, our, our cut was $40,000. Well, the house only cost $20,000 to buy it. So, I mean, that was, that was kind of our best deal where it's like we made twice as much than the house was worth.

That is insane. So small deal, but the yield on the dollars was, was insane. That's super fun. What's the other one?

Uh, it was just a house in, uh, San Clemente, California. Basically, we couldn't get in the house just because there was just packed to the brim. Seller hadn't been there for 10 years. Um, we met him and all the neighbors are just flocking over. Everybody wants to buy this house because it's, you know, the shittiest house in the neighborhood. And I mean, to date, that was our biggest fee by far, and it was a text lead. By far the biggest deal we've ever had.

I've had mixed reviews on this, surprisingly, on this pod actually. I've had a lot of people who have gone through and they're like, "Yeah, I'm in real estate because I like the money and I'm good at it. It's for other stuff." And I've had people who love the game. Do you love wholesaling or is it a means to an end for you?

I think we're just getting— No, I love it. I mean, I think we're just getting started. I think the dopamines of just finding the next deal and getting the next deal and getting our investors excited about what we're putting out. Can I do this for the next 20 years? Probably not. But at this point, I mean, we're probably going to retire in the next 10 if we keep scaling up the way we are. So, that's kind of the goal.

That's amazing. Of all the things with the sales, the marketing, the scaling, the vision, What thing about you, what are you the best in the world at and how's that affected your business? Like what unique thing of Spencer's like because I am Spencer, we're able to do this.

It's that brand recognition. It's that, you know, being able to label yourself as one of the experts in your field. Because again, our business, it's very low barrier of entry, right? So if you're just a little bit more professional, a little bit better polished, a little bit more, You know, my thing is the details, company logo, no Gmail, you know, at homebuyer@gmail.com, cashmoney@gmail.com, you know, just being professional and painting this picture like we're this big, big, big operation when really we're just, you know, a bunch of just grinders trying to, trying to make it happen.

You put together your business in a way where it was built to scale. You made decisions on just basic Logo, representation, is the text font— do we look like a company that is the size that we want to be? For people listening, it's not like, oh yeah, you're just faking it by looking better. It's like you have a plan and you're like, we're going to put the pieces in place and we're going to operate as if we're the larger company that we are going to one day be. And, uh, you guys are doing serious volume. It's fantastic. And you're one of the most competitive places Just almost anywhere in California. California is so competitive for wholesalers. There's some really skilled, high-paying wholesalers that you're marketing against down there.

Yeah, I mean, we're, we're right in the mix, right? It's— there's a couple other guys that we're really competing against on every deal. We're at the point now where if we're not making six figures a month, we're, you know, we're not paying ourselves.. So it's like we have to produce. I love having that back up against the wall. You know, it's like if we're not converting, we're not making money. So it's, you know, we're at the point now where we see competitors spending more than us and it's like, all right, we got to spend more. You know, they're spending $60,000 a month. We got to spend $70,000. You know, they're on TV, radio. We need more, we need more slots. We need to be on YouTube. We need to be on TikTok. Like, Wherever these guys are, we need to get on there and spend more money now because we just— the top guys know that it might not hit right away. But again, our deal size is so big that we just— we're not afraid to test that marketing campaign for 6 months because we know one deal, we're going to get it back. And then it just keeps snowballing from there.

That is such a fun adrenaline rush as a sales guy listening to this. My whole background, I worked for the CoStar Group for a long time and only did sales jobs before that. I've sold everything but— I've never lent, so I've never sold money. But outside of that, I've sold every product under the sun. That's fun. It's all a calculated risk of, hey, we are placing a bet that this is going to pay off, and here's the payoff. It's just a risk-adjusted gamble on this is what we think will happen if we do this. And then you try it and you wait and see, and oh, that is a super fun business to be in. One of the things that you did that I really like is you, you chose the thing that fits your skills that you guys are enjoying and that you're good at, and you're not diversifying outside of that. Biggest mistake I made, absolute biggest, was buying hospitality when I'm a multifamily expert. My teams were not good at it. People who I partnered with were not ready for it. There's things I missed in underwriting because I didn't have the experience. It's a lot of misses. We negotiated the debt well because we're good creative finance guys, and that's the only thing that I did right. When you are building a business like this, was it pretty early on where you just identified— did you do a few deals and just immediately, this is the thing, and just full pivot?

Yeah. I mean, after that first wholesale deal, 10-day close, got paid just as much, if not more, than if we actually did all the work ourselves, it was like, I need to get into this business. This is where I need to be. And to your point, right, you know, it's spending that money for the marketing. But the thing about our business is we're betting on ourselves all the time. If I'm spending all this money on a marketing campaign, we're betting on ourselves that we're going to be able to convert that opportunity where, you know, if you go buy a multifamily deal, you're betting on market, you're betting on rents, you're betting on— not betting, it's more calculated, obviously. But there's so many variables that you can't control, which is what I noticed on the fix and flip side where wholesale, there's variables, but again, we're betting on ourselves and the leads.

What do you think your highest stupid tax is? While you're learning to play the game, there's stuff you don't know. Is there anything that you got blindsided along the way? It could be when you were doing the flips, it could be even in the wholesale business. Yeah, I mean— What's the highest tax you paid to learn to be where you're at?

So I lost about $200 grand on a development deal. Yeah, I gave my contractor partner way too much money up front at the time. You know, never heard from him again. It's like 5-year relationship and once you partner up, you know, things are different when they don't have skin in the game. So I got kicked in the nuts pretty early on. Especially on the fix and flip, whole development side where it's like I would rather put all that money into a marketing campaign and bet on and lost it betting on myself than giving it to the guy and just having them disappear. So I got kicked in the nuts and really that kind of solidified my love and passion for the wholesale business because it's like I I couldn't control— I could have controlled the process as far as how much I gave him upfront. But, you know, we're trying to do these projects fast and trying to, you know, get the jobs done quick. And I just gave him way too much money and never, never heard from him again.

I've had— it was a renovation project, but a hotel conversion that we were doing, 24 units. The guy who partnered with the capital partner owned a development company. He's like, I can get our cost way down. It's going to be amazing. 3 months went by. They're supposed to have kitchenettes done. They had one deconstructing— deconstructed kitchenette still in packaging, just sitting in a unit. That's all they did. He's like, he's like, I need to be paid. I'm like, paid for? Paid for what? Uh, delayed the project forever. It was an absolute nightmare. I have found majority of people, developers are the richest people in the world until they're not, until you get one bad project. Most people, when I ask, like, hey, what's the one thing you regret doing in real estate? People like, I tried to build. It's really hard. It's expensive. People take advantage of you. There's a ton to know. You have permitting. In my opinion, building real estate is the worst job in real estate, but probably why it can be so lucrative. I mean, it's the highest potential yield, but most people get wiped out on one development deal, or it's just, it's expensive to learn. I feel you there. If you're looking to getting started, you're early in the game. I would— development should be the last thing you do. I talked to a developer who's very successful. This was his advice. He's like, buy multifamily or rentals for stable cash flow. If you're going to get into development, own real estate so you have the operations down. You're going to have contractors in your network. When you've paid off 30 or 40 rentals, you have no debt on them. He was like, then you can do a development project. And if something goes sideways, you can just cash flow your way through it. You're fine. That's the best advice I've ever seen from someone who made tens of millions of dollars developing real estate. There was 5 or 6 times where everyone else in that city got wiped out. And he was like, this is a bummer, but I can cash flow my way through it. That's the only way I know to do development. I would not ever start in that because that is a common, common story. I'm glad it only cost you $200.

Yeah, I mean, again, a lot of people, you know, my cash cow was the wholesale business that got me out of that. But again, it's never fun losing money. And to your point, yeah, development is the hardest business. You know, permitting fees were 5 times what we thought. Getting the plans through the city were 5 times as long as we thought. Loan extensions, you know, costs on everything. It's, it's not my space. And I try to get into that space and I realized wholesale's my, my platform. And to your point, you had a lot of good points there. You just got to, you got to pick what you're good at. And yeah, sometimes the cheap way is the most expensive way to go.

Yeah. Yes, it is. I love what you scaled. I love what you shared here. My, my number one takeaway from this is find that thing that you're best at. You're like, find the thing you're best at and then be the best at it. I, I love that you identify your competition. You're watching what they're doing. Like, compete, play the game. Sometimes choosing the adventure is not the way to go. It's, we know, we know this thing, we're good at this thing, this works with our skills. Let's double, triple, quadruple down on the thing that we're best at and compete really hard on that. I love the business you've built. I love your mentality towards this. I talk a lot to people who want to own real estate, and they reach out and they ask about wholesaling as a path to get there. My advice is always, if anyone thinks I'm anti-wholesale, because I've talked about not wholesaling before and not brokering before, if your goal is to buy real estate, don't wholesale. Go buy real estate. There's a bunch of ways to buy real estate. If your goal is to make money in a sales job in Real estate, don't broker, wholesale. Like find contracts, churn con— I think it's a more interesting game personally. If you're absolutely a service provided person and you want a job in real estate, then be a broker because that's all customer service. Figure out what you want to do and do the thing you're going to be best at. You knocked it all the way out of the park. I think there's a lot of takeaways. If you are listening to this, go into whatever you want to do in real estate with this mindset, you will make more money. Whether you're buy and hold, develop, hospitality, multifamily, wholesale, flip, syndication, you name it, dominate your space. Spencer, thanks for joining us, man.

Thank you. And last thing I want to leave on, Christian, is that, yeah, you asked me if I own rental properties and this and that. I mean, I've owned a couple. They didn't do well. It was this problem, that problem. Again, Buying rentals, rental properties and holding properties, that's a whole different management field. Even if you have a property manager, even if you have boots on the ground. For us, we're all about scaling revenue, scaling income. We don't have— I don't have time right now to buy rentals. It's just not in my— it's not my path. Will I do that in the next 10 years? Of course. Will there be opportunities to buy rentals? Absolutely. But right now we're too busy, we're making too much money wholesaling to go buy, you know, I get your business, I love your business, but I'm gonna let you do that and, and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna be in my space until, till I can.

When everyone sticks in their lanes, everyone makes more money. It is the best thing. I love working with a good wholesaler. Love it when someone comes in, hey, I have an opportunity. Yeah, I own a property management company. My specialty is going to be I'm going to take this asset and I'm going to hold it forever. I'll get the tax benefits, I'll get the write-offs, but I make my money stabilizing and optimizing buildings. That's what my team is good at. Why on earth would I spend all my dollars marketing and trying to drum up deals when someone else can do that and make a ton of money doing that? Yeah, it's a beautiful model. Spencer, where would someone find you if they want to either learn from you, ask a question, buy a deal from you? Where would someone find you?

Yeah, I mean, as far as learning from me, you know, again, we're not in the coaching space. We're just, you know, 100%, 110% in our business. But you can find me online, Spenny_OC. I do give out value, you know, occasionally. So, you know, happy to share. I mean, I'm happy to connect and kind of guide you, right? But as far as coaching, mentorship, stuff like that, we're We're, we're just, you know, we're in scale mode.

No distractions. If you're looking for a deal in California, this guy has the deals.

Let's go.

Appreciate you, man. You have a good one. Everyone else, like, follow, subscribe wherever you're listening to this, and we will see you on the next episode.