Jill Donovan, Founder of Rustic Cuff and author of The Kindness Effect

Welcome to A New Life podcast with Pamela Jean, where it's all about empowering women to empower more women. Get ready, friends, to create a new life. And here is your host, Pamela Jean.

Hello, my friends, and welcome to this week's episode of A New Life podcast. I'm Pamela Jean, your host, and thank you so much for being here. I know that your time is very, very valuable, and I appreciate that you have devoted some of your time and given some of your time to me. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Today I have a very special guest. I'm very excited to have this interview. I'm interviewing Jill Donovan today. She is the founder of Rustic Cuff. And I'm excited to have Jill with. With you. I've learned a lot from Jill over the years just from following her, following her journey. I've heard her speak a couple of times at a smaller venue and then also at a larger venue at our church. And I've read her book. I have so much love and respect for Jill. I'm excited to interview her today and I'm excited for you to hear this interview. So, Jill, without further ado, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me, Pamela. I'm happy to be here.

Your.

Your voice, as I'm listening to you.

Sounds like one of the voices when I go to sleep at night, if I put like the psalms on somebody to read them to me, that's what your voice sounds like.

It's so soothing.

Don't fall asleep during this interview. Stay awake.

I have to reprogram my brain. I'm not sleeping, that she's not reading the Bible.

I'm awake and we're on a podcast.

Well, I'm glad that it's soothing and I'm glad it's comfortable, and I hope that it is for everybody listening. And thank you for saying that because I work hard at the right delivery.

It's perfect.

Don't change a thing.

Awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself, Jill. How did you get your start? Just some background. Where did you grow up? Just let us peek into the world of Jill.

Oh, boy.

So I loaded question.

I know.

I was born in Baltimore, Maryland into a Jewish family. Both my mom and dad are fully Jewish and grew up in Baltimore. And then through a different series of things that happened, we moved to Pensacola, Florida. Then from there met the Lord and my parents did, and our whole family did and converted and went on to Oral Roberts University from Pensacola, much to the dismay of all of my still very Jewish grandparents, and then wound up living in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and deciding that for the next, I don't know, seven years of life, had no clue what I wanted to do. And when you grow up in a Jewish family, they, you know, they want you to have one word professions. Doctor, lawyer, accountant, you know, professor, what have you. And every job I'd ever had had like 10 words that I didn't even understand.

It was like provider relations representative for the Northwest Reach. I just, I didn't even know what I did. And you're like, who is that?

Who is that anyway?

I didn't know. But the thing is, I don't even know that, that there was anything other than being a news broadcaster growing up. And then when I found out they.

Have to get up at 3 o' clock in the morning, I don't know.

That I had something even in my 20s that I really was just passionate about doing. Much. Like I see a lot of kids.

Now who like know when they're, you.

Know, 15, social media younger than that, they just know and go fall into that.

I didn't know I was just living.

So I decided to go get a.

One word profession and I decided to go to law school.

And this all coincided with, from when I was little, I, since the time.

I was 10, decided to start a new hobby every year for one year.

In hopes that I would find something that I was passionate about. So I did it for decades. And I loved all the things I did. I just never found the thing that.

Jill was called to do. I just switched over to third person for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Maybe it was the me, like listening.

To your voice in the beginning, I just. That changed it.

Reprogrammed things in my brain.

Now I gotta get back to podcast.

So I went to law school, Pamela.

And at 29:30, graduated when I was 33, only to discover that I loved going to law school so much. And then I couldn't stand being an attorney.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

So what do you do?

So what you do is you get, you finally get an office of your.

Own instead of a cubicle in, you know, 10 word titles that I'd had. Now I'm a one word title with.

A beautiful office that I loved and I loved all of my clients, but.

Didn'T like any of the work. It was very detailed work and it just was not the space I should have been in.

But the thing I loved the most was being able to say I'm an attorney. People didn't have to know I wasn't a good attorney.

I just liked or that you even liked it.

I just like saying it if we're being really honest. The best part was, like, I would fly places and the person that I was sitting next to would say, what.

Do you do for a living?

And the most fun part was just getting to say, I'm an attorney. I don't know. I just.

There's a credibility that goes along with that.

Maybe that was worth four years of.

School because I was going. I was working, working while I was going to school. So it took me four years and.

All the money that it took to go there.

I never, ever have regretted going to.

Law school, but that didn't get me any closer to finding something that I was passionate about. Then one of my.

One of my. The attorneys I worked with asked me if I would help him teach back at the University of Tulsa if I would teach law school.

So I thought, oh, professor, that's.

That's even better. That's even better than attorney, right?

Yes.

In my eyes, it was because I didn't have to deal with all of the same things I was dealing with.

I was doing divorce and family law, which is.

That's painful.

Painful. Very painful.

Great.

I always say, great, great people, but.

At the worst time of their life. And so that's when you meet them.

You're meeting wonderful people at the hardest.

Time of their life.

And so I became an adjunct law.

Professor, and I did that for eight years.

I loved it, but it still wasn't, you know, it wasn't like the same.

Feeling of your hand fitting perfectly into a glove. Like you just know when it fits perfectly. And. And I was rather under qualified to do it. I just never told anybody how under qualified I was. Somehow I made it through eight years of doing that being very under qualified.

And. And so that gets me to how Rusticuff got started. I wound up having two beautiful baby.

Girls and took a hiatus. Was that called a hiatus? I took a sabbatical from teaching and the law and raised. Started to raise them.

And then the other side of my.

Brain took over and creativity just came.

Would start flowing through me in a way that it had not past decade before.

And I started creating things in the back bedroom of my house and just never stopped and started creating bracelets and. And then Rustic Cuff was born.

I mean, there's a. There's a whole other story that goes.

Along with it that has to do with Oprah, but I won't take up the time here.

Yes, I heard that story. And, and at one time, at one point. Let's go through that story. Not today, but another time, I'll have you come back and we'll go through that story because it is so important, and it's a powerful story. But I have a question for you just as I was listening to you speak. Sure, tell me, because I think we're a lot alike in this way. When you have a very strong and powerful right brain and left brain, how does that work for you? Because I can identify and completely lock arms with you on not knowing what you liked or what you wanted to do. Because I like everything. I like so many things. I love music. I love the arts. I love acting. I love singing. I love sports. I love. I love football. I love baseball. I love a lot of things. And I really struggled with finding the thing for me that I was meant to do. So tell me how that works for you, because I know you're. You're just as strong left brain as you are right brain.

Yeah.

I think it's a little bit like.

When you are an artist and you're known for this style of art, say, Picasso, right. You can. You can spot a Picasso. You are known for that. And.

And I. I think I always wanted that.

I wanted to be just in this.

One lane that I was really good at. But the problem was, like you, my desires kept spilling outside of any lane.

That I would get in.

And as a creative, you cannot be.

Contained into one lane.

Although there are people who are really good at that one thing.

And I so admire that because I'm.

A little bit like a squirrel. The next. Next time I see. I walk into a gallery, I walk in somewhere and I see some beautiful art, and I'm committed to that for the rest of my life, I'm gonna learn how to do that. And then if I walk next door to a different gallery of, say, somebody writing beautiful, you know, beautiful poetry, I'm like, yep.

No, I'm a poet.

I'm doing that. I'm gonna be a poet.

Yeah. And I used to think that. Not that there was something wrong with me, but. Jill, pick something and stick with it. Yeah.

Pick a lane already, would you?

Yes. Pick a lane already, because that is how you get really, really good at something. And now I realize that is I've. I've allowed myself to live in a world that if it were like a bowling alley that can bowl on lane one for a month, and then for the next year, I can go down to lane eight, and lane one doesn't go away. It just means. It means that actually the things I learned over at Lane one by bowling against the wall. I. Then I have, I take something from that when I go bowl on lane eight. And so I now look at, instead of bowling down one lane, I am.

I have, I own the whole alley.

Because I meet different people, learn different things.

But it, it is overwhelming, Pamela, as you know it, because you want to do everything. And when it comes to a profession, it's very difficult to hone in.

Yes, it is. And I think I can, I can just surmise that growing up, how you grow up with a strong expectation of, of the title behind your name. That's a one word title, not a wishy washy, whatever, you know, word salad title, but a one word title. There was an expectation and probably an internal pressure to have that because that validates me, that will validate me. And I think for me, when I was able to understand that I'm just going for impact, impact in the world. And if I can hone in on how I impact the world, I can do anything. It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

If I'm, you know, behind my camera, if I'm, you know, behind my, in front of my microphone, if I'm speaking to a group of, you know, 1500 women or entrepreneurs, it's about impact and how my example and impact can change someone's life.

Exactly. And I think the world makes you think that you have to do that one thing, that one thing. But I have come to realize that.

If I am getting joy from the.

Thing I am doing, that spills over into every other person that I come into contact with. So if it is, if my joy is coming from lane one during this season, I have no shame or guilt.

Anymore about switching lanes because it's not.

The thing I'm doing that is impactful. It is the joy and the passion that comes along with.

That's the overriding thing. And I don't want to be stuck in lane one.

Right.

If I've lost my joy for that, because that will, if you're an authentic.

Person, people will be able to see that really clearly. If you've overstayed your welcome in something because you feel like you have to. I only want to do things that are really my get to. That's where you, that's where you're the most fruitful.

Absolutely. And I think people stay places because it's safe and it's because it's what they know and well, I'm safe here. I know I can do this. And I'm just afraid to try anything else. And, and that's Sad because I don't want anyone to stay anywhere because it's, you know, quote unquote safe.

If.

If you're talking about making big strides and impact and changes in the. In the world around you.

That's why I think it's so great.

For people to start one new thing every year that they've never done before, because you do get stuck. Because life, it feels a little bit like Groundhog's Day, right? And when you sort of jolt yourself and try something new that you are not good at and you're not comfortable.

With you, and you keep doing that.

Each year, you come to realize there is more than just this one lane that you have been in.

It's just that you don't want to.

Put yourself in uncomfortable situations or you think you don't have the time and all of these things.

And I'm like 10 minutes a day of doing something. It's not that. It's like, not that learning guitar is.

Going to change your life.

It's. It's what the doing leads to something else.

What thing it leads to and what that thing then leads to. It's not. It's not usually about just that 10 minutes. It's how. How it then overflows into the rest of your life because you are moving forward instead of standing still.

So that's not about.

Not about the. What you do. It's about the fact that you are doing something. And that. That really does change everything.

It really does. I work with. When I do my coaching, I work in eight different life pillars, and the intellectual pillar is one of them. And it is challenging and stretching your brain to do something that you've never done before. Now, audience listeners, I challenge you.

I'm.

You know, Jill, do something new this year. Learn something new. Learn something new that you have never done before. Play the harmonica. Go learn how to oil paint. Go learn how to, you know, Polish rocks, whatever it is, do something new. Just expand your brain. Because what happens is God's going to put people in your life that you are meant to meet. If you stay stuck exactly where you are, you'll never meet them because you're in that mundane lane that does not serve you. So you have to be able to open your mind up, your soul up and learn something new and expand your horizons.

That's good. Preach, Pamela, then y'. All.

Then I'll put you to sleep when I read to you.

Okay?

So thank you so much for that. That was fantastic. I want to ask you. People make an impact in our lives. Who inspired you to become who you are today?

I think my parents, absolutely my parents did because they didn't, they didn't put limits on me. I mean they just, they really made me believe that I could do anything.

But I wish I could point to one particular person. But this, this is going to sound so bad. I'll. If you really want me to be fully authentic, this is going to sound bad. And I'm going to probably say Pamela, scratch that. But I think every year doing something new, I kept getting inspired by the.

Jill from the year before that was bold enough to try something new and be with new people and do something she had never done.

So I kept getting inspired by my.

Past as I would move into the future.

I'm saying I'm inspired by me. I've never said that before. That's so silly.

I don't think it's silly at all.

Oh my gosh.

Nobody ever gives that answer.

I was, I was inspired by, by the last 365 days because it added to this. Oh, I don't know.

Just.

I just kept putting it in this file that I would have of hard.

Things maybe that I've done and that inspired me then to do something even harder. And I will so regret that answer. But, but it. I don't have a particular person that I could say.

I love your answer and I love the. Well, I know but. But I would not that I think I inspire me because I really don't. I. I think that you reinvent yourself. You've challenged yourself to be someone who reinvents and becomes a better version than last year's version. You were proud of last year's version. But you know what? This year is going to be even better. I think that's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with that. Some of the happiest people that I know are the most centered and self loving people that I know. They are the ones who are the game changers, the world changers, the big impactors. Because they're so comfortable in their own skin. They don't need affirmation from anyone but themselves. And that is so important. That is a superpower.

Except when I get to heaven and.

God says, well done, good and faithful servant.

Except for that time you were on Pamela's podcast and you said that you inspired you.

You took all the credit.

Yeah, all got inspired. But he kept inspiring me through, through.

My previous year there. Exactly.

I love it.

That was.

That's redemption right there.

That was perfect. Exactly.

That's funny.

So what was your Biggest struggle in balancing life with your business aspirations. Because if we're honest, you created a tremendous company through Rustic Cuff. How did you balance that? Or maybe you didn't balance it. Well, maybe, I don't know, maybe you did.

But what.

How did you manage having and running this company, growing it and raising those two beautiful little girls?

You know, the funny thing is that was probably the biggest question I got.

In the earlier years. I would, if I were ever interviewed by a news program, they would always say, or they'd end it by saying.

How do you balance this all?

Because all they saw was the craziness and just the non stop, the. All the things that Rusticuff was. It was just like 24 7.

And so the question was, how do.

You even attempt to manage both sides of your life? And this answer came to me very early on that there is really. There is really no perfect way to balance it, except I just made it all one life as an entrepreneur. You can. It's very hard when you are in corporate America. That's a. That's a whole different answer.

I just made it so my kids.

Felt like, well, this was just part.

Of life and they were part of this family. It was like it was just families.

And it was much like you, you know, your cousins. This was a. This was. Rusty Cuff was the cousin to my family at home. And so it wasn't a foreign thing.

Or things that they resented because they.

Were just part of it.

Easier as an entrepreneur to.

Much easier as an entrepreneur to do that, to balance it all.

Because I could, I could do a.

Lot of this from home as I created in the back bedroom. And so, I mean, I never cooked again since I started the company, but I was glad. I never wanted to anyhow.

But that's how I balanced it.

That there was.

Now the bigger question is how did I balance having, you know, sanity or time away from everything wasn't. It wasn't difficult merging, you know, my.

My, this cousin with my, you know.

Kids or my husband.

It was, how does Jill get. Get some rest and peace away from this? How did I. How did I build that in? And I, for sure, in the beginning years, I think I did it very poorly.

So much so that I wound up.

In the hospital thinking I was having a heart attack because I would never sleep well, because I loved it so.

Much that I. I never thought that.

I really needed to get away. I just was in it all the time. And if you talk to an entrepreneur earlier early on in, you know, this obsession phase, when there's nothing else that matters, that you don't think that you need to take the rest.

You don't, you don't want to because.

You don't want to get away from it. But I've realized that how healthy. After I wound up in the hospital for four days thinking I was having a heart attack, just from never stopping, I, I realized that even if I don't think I need it, getting away for a few days regularly is so important. It's imperative to my, to my well.

Being and for the sake of everybody.

Else around me that they can have this refreshed, renewed version as well.

Well, I, I think that's a great answer. And it's almost like, you know, it's, it's not ever going to be completely balanced, like fair, equal, fair. It's just not. But if you have a handle on the ebb and the flow and you have expectation and you carve out that time. I'm really selfish with my Sundays. It's like, that is my family day. That's my church day, that's my kids day. That's, that's just my day to do whatever I, you know, want to do. And I don't work on that day. I absolutely don't. And I, I, I'm, I don't feel badly for that. It's like, I know I need that, but if you can expect unbalance because it is going to be a thing. But if you have an ebb and a flow that is comfortable. And if you're comfortable with saying no when you need to say no, that's what's really, really important. And I think you've done a great job of managing that. And it's not easy. I mean, I don't, as an entrepreneur, I love working. That's part of the problem. I love the visionary aspect. I love constantly coming up with new things. It's my favorite. I just love it. It doesn't feel, I mean, I feel like elf, it's my favorite. I love it.

I do.

I love it so much that it's hard for me to take time off and relax on the beach somewhere because I'm literally thinking about the next thing that I'm going to be doing when I get back. And I can't wait to get home. So it's part of, of that learning that, okay, this is not what my brain wants, but it's what my body wants.

Yes.

What my body needs and listening to my internal self.

I love meeting people like you because you don't, you don't find Obsessive people with.

You'd find that people are obsessed with.

Something, but with a lot of things, it can be so overwhelming because you're never bored and you want to do so many things that you don't even.

Have the time for it.

Exactly. So many things make you excited to do, and the ideas don't stop flowing. It is almost. I look around, I'm like, can I. Can somebody else take some of this? Because it is so crazy overwhelming. I just can't stop. I went to bed last night and I said to my husband, I think.

I have a problem.

I think I would never. You could leave me alone for 30 days in a row, and I could never sleep, and I would never be bored.

Right.

It feels. Feels a little bit like.

Like a problem. Right?

Exactly. You're like, am I the only one who feels this way? Well, no, you're not.

Yeah.

Because I don't get bored.

There's probably so many people who could be like this. It just. It's like just. You gotta turn on the faucet. You gotta just like, just start it, and then it will start flowing. And I think it's in so many.

People, it's just again, the Groundhog Day gets them stuck in some kind of quicksand that.

That once they get out of.

That they didn't realize how much they had inside of them that was just ready to start flowing.

Exactly. Oh, my gosh. That's so good. So what is one thing that no one in the whole world knows about Jill?

Well.

Only one thing.

Yeah, one.

I mean, I feel like. I feel like people know a lot.

Like most people in my inner circle know all the crazy, quirky things about me.

But if there was one thing that.

I've never ever said before again, this will be something I totally regret. Like, you know I will, but I'm gonna say it.

You're welcome.

Oh, my gosh. I. I think when I was little, I used to think that.

That stuffed animals had feelings. Right. And it's just. Okay.

But now that I'm an adult, I. I actually.

This is silly because we've saved all the stuffed animals for my kids over the years, and some of them are still in on one of my daughter's beds.

I actually think sometimes that maybe they're.

This is so dumb.

I'm not going to say this.

It's too late.

You're committed.

You're in.

I told.

No, I told somebody. I told somebody here this today, actually.

So one other person.

Sometimes I think that maybe inanimate objects.

Are not really inanimate that they are angels, unaware.

That's so dumb. I would so regret this. That stuffed animals were angels. Like, I think I might have believed. It was young and it just never. That belief maybe may still have carried over as an adult. Like I said, it's not terribly out.

Of the realm of possibility. But it's so silly that I just am mad at you now that you asked that question.

I'm not drinking. I'm not doing anything. I'm not on any medication. And I just said that stuffed animals could be angels. And I was just looking for one.

Thing that maybe nobody knew.

And there you go. Now everybody knows. And now you have to think of something else. Nobody knows.

So.

So when Toy Story came out. Okay, now don't lie to me. I mean, I will not lie to you. When. When Andy goes off to school and the animals are all sitting there waiting for him and he doesn't come back bald.

Oh, my gosh.

I'm like, yes, poor, poor little Buzz and Woody. Come on, take him with you.

The problem is, is that this idea came into my mind when I was really, really little, and nobody. I never talked about it, and therefore nobody could ever dispute that with me.

It's manifested forever.

50 something. And I'm like, oh, I think that stuffed animal moved.

It wasn't there earlier in the day. Okay, that's.

You asked for something, and I did. I really had to stretch. I've never even thought. I've hardly thought about this ever in my life.

People are probably turning off the podcast now.

And you delivered. You delivered. Thank you so much.

Perfect. Just. That's the second thing I'll regret.

Okay, so what. What's next for you? What's the future of Rustic Cuff? Do you have new ventures, new goals? I know you do. You learn something new every year, so that doesn't count. But. But what's next for you? I mean, I know your daughters are getting older.

Yep.

The empty nest is starting to knock on your door.

It's.

You're not far from that. And that is life changing. I've been through that, and I. I. My heart hurts for you because I know what you don't know about it. And there's a lot coming your way. I coach women through the empty nest in that new stage and phase of life. So what's next for you? What's the future of Rustic Cuff? New ventures, just kind of.

What's.

What's the third act going to be for Jill?

This is our 13th year of Rustic Cuff.

And last year at the beginning of the year, you know, we've had, we have, we had a showroom at Disney World. Starting last year, we had, I think, six showrooms. Disney, Texas, a couple places. We had had a couple places in Texas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa.

And I decided at the beginning of.

Last year that I wanted to simplify.

I, I didn't want to, I subscribed.

To the theory, or, I don't know, it's theory. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I, I did the opposite of that. I did everything just because I could.

Let's do it.

Let's make everything. Let's do everything. Let's hire. I, I mean, I just did anything that I want to because we could instead of really, I'm not saying stay.

In a lane, but instead of. We didn't grow slow, we grew exponentially fast. And for the first, I don't know, first nine years, craziness.

And I decided last year I want.

To simplify, but do it even with more excellence and do the things, only.

Do the things that really bring me.

Joy and that I believe in. Because when I looked around, I mean, we're in a 40,000 square foot building here in Tulsa. And when I look around at a lot of things, I realize over the years I did, did a lot of things.

Just because people were saying, julie, you should do this, I'm like, okay, let's do it. You should do this. And I, it was like a little bit like cleaning out your closet and only keeping the things in there that you really love. And that's what I.

And that's not an overnight thing. And so as my leases ended in places around that we were in, I had to take a good look at it and say, do I want to renew for another seven years? I don't know where I'll be in three years.

That's a big commitment. Yeah, it's a big commitment. It's also hard when you really love.

What you're doing, to do it in remote locations without traveling to those locations.

It's hard. You have great people that work there.

But it's, it's hard to have the heart in every location. Although our girls did an amazing job, but as our leases have ended, you know, our five, seven year leases, I decided not to renew them and just to keep it really simple, but hone in on the things that really bring me joy. And we, I started that last January and, and that's what, for me, the joy of simplifying has given me, has brought so much peace. But it has unleashed an entire new lane of creativity that I've not even experienced before. Didn't. I haven't even experienced this at the beginning of Rustica. And it is because I started pruning and shedding things that I had held on to for a long time. Because, you know, just like your closet.

You'Re like, I bought that. I spent good money on that, and I've had that forever. This has meaning because Aunt Lisa bought this for me. And. And I just decided that I. I don't want.

Naked we come, naked we go. I say. And I. I want everything that we keep and that we do to be with great intention or I don't want to do it at all. And that's not easy. It's not easy because saying goodbye to things and to, you know, showrooms or.

People, that comes at a cost.

It's hard. But I believe God directed every step because every step that I took in simplifying, he already went. He went ahead of me. And it doesn't mean it wasn't hard. It just means that to get from here to there, I had to walk through those things. So the future for me is even more fruitful than the past because it is now doing the things that I only putting out and only doing the things that I really love instead of just because I can.

That's so good. And, you know, I watched you grow. I'm an entrepreneur and I love watching businesses grow. And, you know, even the. The frenzy around the Stanley cup right now just is just so fascinating to me.

It's.

I love the marketing ideas behind it. It just fascinates me. And.

And it's.

It's so exciting. But the bigger the levels, no matter what it is in the bigger the devils. And isn't it true? It's like, just because you can get big doesn't mean you should get big. But the bigger the levels, the bigger the devils. The devils just get bigger. And isn't that true?

It's true. If I see somebody growing so fast now, I am like, okay, that you don't know this, but you're going to get to a point where it is so overwhelming and all consuming that you.

Don'T know it at the moment that is happening. And it doesn't matter what people tell you, you're like, oh, that's just because.

You haven't been there before.

It's. But it. It is. You are absolutely right. More opposition, more. You're on the radar in a whole different way. It's a. It's a. You're Right. It's a whole different world.

Well, and I think, you know, because you can grow and because you have, you know, outside influences saying, yeah, you should do this, you should do this, you can do that. Why. Why wouldn't you do that? I think you lose yourself in that.

Absolutely.

And. And your ego gets fed in an unhealthy way. Having confidence is great, but when it's ego driven, and I'm not saying that is for you, I'm not judging you by any stretch, but I think it's normal that when you start growing, you're like, oh, look what I did. Look what I did. And then all of a sudden you're like, wait a minute. I did all this stuff, but I don't even. I don't want to be where I'm at. How did I get here? I don't want to be here. Yeah, the levels got so big, and then the devils that come with that.

Growth are really big. Yeah, really big. And.

And if you don't have the right.

People around you advising you, if you don't have the right mentors. And for the first, I don't know, eight, nine years, 10 years, I had no mentors like actual mentors. Right. So I was just thinking that I knew. I mean, I listened.

I would listen to people, but I don't.

I. It doesn't mean you always had the right people around you.

The thing is, Pamela, and I know.

You know this, the best lessons learned are the ones. The ones that you walked through yourself. And I can only.

I mean, when you ask the future.

Of Rustic Cuff, I think it is sort of combined with, you know, I speak a lot now, and.

And when I speak now, as compared.

To eight years ago, I am speaking straight from the hard places. Right. Of a lot of different places of life. And I realize as I'm speaking, it.

Is the impact that it would have.

From somebody who walked through it, as opposed to somebody who's just saying in theory. And for me, the great. Besides. Besides still absolutely loving rusticuff and the people that I'm with, which are like my best friends, I get the most joy out of being able to share things that happen on the journey of rusticuff and not about the mountaintops.

I mean, there were plenty of. And there still are plenty of great high places.

But I. There's not.

There's not a lot I can say.

About that except, oh, that was fun. It is from the depths of despair that I can reach and to talk to somebody and say, let me tell you. And that Is that is what I get the most joy out of, and it came from the most pain?

Yes. Oh, my gosh. I did a podcast in around Christmas time about my greatest gifts that I have ever received in my life. My greatest gifts were the hard times, the trials, the losing my dad when he was young and I was young, losing. That's where I learned the most. And what I learned in those times is the absolute best and biggest gift I could have ever been given is what I learned in those moments. It's, you know, sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and sometimes that's a blessing. It's truly a blessing. It's like you can go fearless because you don't know what you don't know, but when you know it, then you're like, oh. Then you're like, oh, now I get it.

Yep. Get it.

And when I'm listening to people speak or talk, when they are telling me.

About what they've gone through, what I get from. From that is hope, because they're on the other side of that journey, I get hope.

I don't.

I don't want to hear somebody stand up and just tell me the success story without telling me what you've been through to get to that point. Exactly. And so when I look back on the last 13 years, when somebody said, well, what do you regret? I. There's. I would say zero, because every hard thing led to great fruit from having. From having gone through that. So I'm grateful. Grateful for. And while I'm in difficult times, I don't want to just be grateful when I get to the other side. But you don't. You don't. All these lessons were learned through the vehicle of entrepreneurship. And if you've been in it for a decade or more, you know, you will go through the cycle of learning some really hard lessons and riding some very high mountains. And God used. I believe God uses everything to teach us some very practical life lessons.

I agree. I couldn't agree more. So what's your life mission? Where do you want to make the biggest impact in the world?

I would say the mission, if I.

Had a mission statement. It's. It's to give hope is to give hope through every cuff, through every conversation, through every interaction. Wherever I am and with whomever I am with, whether that happens to be on a stage in front of 2,000 people or whether that happens to be sitting on an airplane next to one person, I get no more joy out of one than the other, because it is. It's not the bigger is better for me, it is the mission of handing somebody hope, more hope that they had before we met each other before, you know, before we sat next to each other, before we were standing next to each other in a line somewhere. I want every person to walk away. Even if there wasn't anything said, I want them to walk away feeling more hopeful. And that's. That would be. I think that is what Brassica for me has never been about the bracelet. It is about just handing out hope when people walk in the door or when we talk to them.

So, yeah, that's a great answer. And I have to tell you, Jill, I wasn't planning on telling you this today. The first time I heard you speak at a smaller event, you and I didn't even have a conversation, but you handed out and a gift to everyone in the room, which. That alone, I was like, oh, my gosh, how generous is that? That is amazing. But I happen to be going through a really, really difficult time. When I was sitting there, you know, one of those moments in your life where you just can barely stop the tears from flowing, where you just are in a room and you're like, oh, my gosh, don't cry. Please don't cry. Please don't cry. You know, one of those days. It was just one of those really, really hard, hard life moments. And I open up the package of the bracelet that was randomly given to me, and the message on the bracelet was courage. And that immediately connected me to you and Rustic Cuff in its mission, because that is exactly what I needed to hear on that day was courage. I needed courage. And I wore that cuff and every day for a very long time until I found my courage. And I just. I wasn't planning. In fact, I forgot about that until you were talking about giving out one cuff at a time, one. One bit of hope at a time. And you did that for me years and years ago.

So thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, thank you.

That was.

Yeah, I love that. I love those stories because that means.

That there are stories that I don't even.

No, you didn't even know. You didn't even know what you did for me that day. And I thank you. I thank you for that.

Thank you. That inspires me.

Oh, good.

Good.

Okay, so let's start to wind it down. I just have to tell you, I really have enjoyed this today. This was even better than I could have imagined.

Likewise.

Yeah, I just have a couple things I want to. One rapid fire question. What advice would you give the younger.

You the younger me, you know, I.

Would say, let's just say if I'm.

Talking to a whole younger generation of people that, who say I don't know what I'm supposed to do in life, which is like, I don't know what I'm called to do. And then they just sort of fall into something. They don't know what they're called to do. So.

Or they get, they don't, they freeze.

And they don't do anything. Life happens to them instead of them happening to life. I would say God does not steer parked cars.

So even if you don't know what.

You are quote unquote called to do.

Start moving towards the thing that makes.

Your heart come alive. And, and I, this is the advice that I will give. And it's a quote that I heard once.

You may not be doing the thing.

Right now that you are called to do, but it might be the thing.

It will be the thing that leads.

You to the thing that leads you to the thing that leads you to the thing. So don't stop where you are as if it were your destination when merely it's just the transportation to take you towards what God has called you to do. So the biggest thing I would tell myself even above that is to, is to obey God in everything. Just follow, follow his direction and don't stop.

And because you're sitting in a job that is a ten word title that you don't even know does not mean that that is not where you are.

Purposed to be at this very moment.

So if it doesn't look like all the shining lights that you thought it.

Would, this is just transportation on your way. It's just the thing that leads you to the thing.

It's not all those hobbies I did for the last 43 years, not one.

Of them was wasted.

They were just things that led me.

To other things that led me to other things. Not, not one single thing in my life has God wasted. Not even the stuffed animals that were really angels on the bed.

That's, that's what I would say any. And even in, older, even later in life, in seasons, it doesn't mean that suddenly you arrive at 50 or 60 or 70, you're like, okay, this is it then for life, I think it's a constant moving. And then you're like, why? I'm an empty nester. Why am I here at this point? It doesn't, this is the moment that you're in right now that will lead.

You to the other thing that leads you to another thing it does. This is not just my younger self. I would say to this self right now, like don't regret or despise the season that you are in as long as you are obeying God. It is just the transportation taking you to the destination. And don't, and don't, don't hurt. You can't hurry it. God's timing is perfect.

You can't, even though you have a.

Vision and want to be there when.

You'Re in the car and you have.

A 10 hour journey, you can't do.

Anything to make the journey trip go faster. But you can, you can change the.

Narrative of, of the journey you're in, saying, I'm going to enjoy every single mile of this journey because I'm going to do this during the journey. So you, you can't speed up the journey, but you can change your mind about how you're walking through it.

That was a long answer and it.

Was a perfect answer. It was a good answer because I think as even as an adult woman we need to be reminded that just because you've been doing the same job for the last 30 years doesn't mean that that's the last job you'll ever have.

No, no.

You know, so many very powerful people have started impactful businesses late in life. Like Martha Stewart, she was well into her 50s before she started became Martha Stewart. I mean, yeah, that's just one example. There's so many examples of incredible companies that started late in life for people. And we have to remember that every season that we go through, there is another season. It doesn't end until our eyes don't wake up of a morning. That's when it ends. It's when your eyes stop. Wait, you stop opening. That's when it ends. Until that time, there is something you're meant to do every single day of your life that's powerful and impactful and, and if you just let God guide you, you give him the reins, oh my gosh, that's all you gotta do.

Age has nothing to do with effectiveness in life.

But everybody puts sort of this stop, you know, when you get to 50.

Or you get to 60.

But age has nothing to do with that.

Like you said, as long as you have breath inside of you, you can be just as effective as somebody who the world would say is in their prime.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. So Jill, I want to wrap it up and if someone would like to reach out to you and talk to you about speaking at their event or connect with you in some way. Do you want to share that? If you don't, that's okay. But if you want to share that, I would love to have you do that now.

Well, we have rusty cup.com, but I have a website, Jill at Jill or just jill donovan.com. and there is a. There is a message button on there. And also on Rusticuff, I think there is a speaking request or just you can just reach out to me.

You can just go to my website.

Jill donovan.com, which is even weird that I never wanted a website with my name. It feels very self. It feels very pretentious.

But at the same time, like, why.

Would I use somebody else's name?

Right?

Right.

Reach me at least.

Why would you just make one up?

So you can just message me@jilldonathan.com and I also do a blog every Monday.

Which I've been doing for almost two years now, and that goes on that website. And all of those are. Are just really practical life lessons that I have learned along on this journey. And I would just encourage.

I don't even point people. I rarely point people people to that. But they're just short little chapters, a.

Little blogs of things that I've really learned from the depths of despair. And hopefully they'll just pass hope on along to anybody that's reading it. So.

Oh, excellent. Jill, thank you so much for your time today. I know your time is so valuable. You have mountains to move and I appreciate you giving some of your time to me and my audience today. And I know that someone listening has meant to hear exactly what you've had to say. So thank you so much.

Thanks, Pamela.

I appreciate you. Really, really appreciate Podcaster. Keep doing what you're doing.

You are making impact in ways that you. That you don't even know. So I do think you should record the Bible so I can listen to you as I sleep.

I was gonna say, so tonight when you go to sleep, Jill, you just think of me because I'm gonna lull you to sleep.

Thank you so much for asking me to be on here with you today. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Oh, it's my pleasure. My friends, thank you so much for joining us today on a New Life podcast. And I will say, see you here next week. Make it a great week.

Thank you for joining us today on a New Life podcast. We will see you next time.