Are Cities Making Us Sick? Uncovering Environmental Toxins with Dr. Lyn Patrick | TPE Blueprint #21

What if the very homes and cities we love are making us chronically sick without our knowledge? So today on the podcast, I'm joined by Dr. Lynn Patrick, who's an environmental medicine pioneer, a researcher and educator, where she's going to pull back the curtain on a lot of these hidden toxic exposures that almost all of us are exposed to, maybe all of us from forever. Chemicals in our water, our tap water, or silent mold that's inside of all of our walls. So she's going to break down how this all works and really why therapeutic plasma exchange is completely redefining how things are done to truly detoxify and reclaim your health. So she's going to break it all down for us. Let's dive in.

All right. Dr. Lynn, I am so happy. Dr. Lynn Patrick, that is. Sorry. Happy that you're here. We've already been chatting. I'm like, we got to hit record because this is going to be good. So how you doing today overall?

I'm great. We've already gotten deeply into it very quickly, so we'll pull ourselves back out and get right back in.

Right. Well, that's. It's always a good. It always makes me feel good. And I know it's gonna, you know, it's gonna come across great. You've been studying environmental what? Toxicology.

Medicine. Environmental medicine.

20 years. 20 plus years, yes.

I had a mentor, Dr. Walter Kernan, who I worked very closely with for decades. He was trained, he and myself were trained by Dr. William J. Ray, who was a cardiothoracic surgeon, believe it or not, who also practiced environmental medicine and had a treatment center, Environmental Health Center, Dallas, in Dallas, Texas, since the 70s. And he was one of the pioneers in environmental medicine in this country. And we were both extremely fortunate and blessed to be able to be under his journey, tutelage and to learn from him. And he was an amazingly brilliant human being. Has a five volume set. You know, each one's about an inch or two thick. On his experience treating patients and on the referenced information in the medical literature on environmental medicine. Wow.

So he was setting the foundation for all this to be.

Yes.

So what got. It's not a new or.

It's.

Yeah. It is a newer science or focus. And I mean, it's developing so fast. You would know best what got you into this whole space. I'm just curious what your motivation.

Well, yeah, we call it the new toxicology. You know, toxicology is more about acute poisoning. Now we're seeing that we're dealing with an entire planet. You know, in which humans are being chronically poisoned. So this is a little bit different than what we would think of as medical toxicology. So here's how it happened. I had been in practice for about 10, 15 years. I went to Dr. Crinian's day long environmental medicine workshop. And I was sitting next to a friend of mine who's an internist.

Dr. Kalsa. And so we were whispering back and forth. He because he presented these patient cases and we recognized these situations in patients like, oh my God, I saw that patient, they didn't get better. I saw that patient, they didn't get better. I didn't look at what they'd been exposed to either recently or historically. And so Dr. Kalsa and I, as we're whispering back and forth during this day long.

Patient case presentation that Dr. Kernan was so good at, he was a great teacher. We decided during that day long course, that day long presentation, that we would get him to teach us everything that he knew. So we elbowed our way to the front of the line of questions of doctors. At one of the breaks we said, we've got to take you to lunch. And at that meal we said to him, you've gotta start a training program for physicians. Because, you know, we don't. We didn't learn this in school. Nobody learns this in school. I didn't learn it in naturopathic medical school. Dr. Kalsa did not learn it in his traditional conventional medical training. So lo and behold, I think that was 2000. In 2001, there was the first class that he had put together of docs from all over the country. We flew into the Naturopathic Medical School in Tempe, Arizona. And we met every, I think two or three months for a weekend. And then we had a curriculum of a lot of material that we had to learn from the medical literature. By the way, this is all published in the medical literature. It's just that nobody's put it together. And it changed my practice complete. I had a general family practice. I did a lot of obgyns. I did recognize the role that toxic metals played, but I didn't specialize it. I changed my entire practice to specialize in environmental medicine. I worked with a physician, a do. And we built an addition to his clinic that was an environmental medicine wing, basically of his clinic. And we started treating patients. And that was in Durango, Colorado, which you'd think it's in the Southwest. It's pristine mountains. It's beautiful. It is, except that it is directly north in the plume of the two oldest grandfathered in coal burning, electric generating plants. So we had a lot of sick patients, higher risk for autoimmune disease, higher risk for cancer as a result of those exposures. So we had a population to work with.

Yes, you did.

And so then I started teaching with Dr. Akrinian in his postgraduate training program. And then sadly, in 2019, he passed away and I took over that training program. And that's what I do now is we have a global international training program for clinicians in environmental medicine.

And that's emeiglobal.com, right?

That's correct. EMIG global.com. yes.

Yeah. And I just interviewed your colleague, Dr. Ann Marie Fine, and she was awesome. And like you said, she's the queen of microtoxics, toxins. Sorry, microplastics.

Yes.

And even nanoplastics, which were frightening me even more.

I'll tell you, Dr. Fine has educated me a lot, and I'm really grateful for this specialty area of knowledge of hers in both personal care product.

Toxicants as well as microplastics and nanoplastics. And we now have, not here in the United States, but in Europe, we have tests that will measure blood levels of micro and nanoplastics.

We talked about this.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah, that's. That's a podcast not to miss for sure.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And yeah, just, just search her name, Dr. Fine, and you'll find her. We'll make it easy.

We'll.

We'll link it in the show notes as well. But let's talk about. So your focus and, well, the fact that you are educating. I'll just go back to your model really fast because I find it so fascinating that this isn't taught in normal medical school.

Not at all.

Dr. Feinman's, like, everyone's so busy too. They don't even have time to read the literature, the new research. Right.

I will say I have to say this to be, to be transparent. We do in medical training, learn about lead toxicity. We learn about some of the other, like air pollution, how dangerous air pollution is. The problem is that medical training, and I'm talking both about conventional medical training and what we would consider functional medical training or alternative medical training, does not go into the areas of what do you do about it? Right. How do you test for it? How do you diagnose conditions? Like, for example, we know that about 400,000 people in this country die every year from heart attacks caused by lead poisoning. That's about 30% of all deaths from Cardiovascular disease from heart attacks and strokes. That's in the medical literature.

Wow.

But doctors, how many have you or how many people do you think that go into their physicians who have risk for heart disease, either from family history or currently.

Are tested for their blood lead level? Zero.

Never heard of it.

Yeah, because doctors aren't trained in this and that. Yeah. They don't have time to read the medical literature. I mean, Dr. Fine and I live in that world, so we're reading the medical literature all day long. But no, doctors are way too busy to. To. To train in that way. For many years, I worked with an organization called acam, the American College for the Advance Medicine. And we taught a course in medical toxicology where we literally took doctors through the medical literature as well as the clinical training for how to test for and to treat metals. I think Dr. Savage has taken that training, if I'm not mistaken, or one similar to it. And all the docs would come up to me and go, why did I never learn this in medical school? There are probably multiple reasons. One of the reasons is that we don't focus on toxicants as a cause of disease. And medical training other than occupational medicine, which is a specialty and only looks at acute poisoning of workers in an industrial environment, we are so far beyond that now. If we look at, for example, the residents who were involved in the Eaton fire in Los Angeles.

Right, right.

Those people, as well as the residents in New York City for. Who were there for 9, 11, as well as several other exposures like East Palestine, Ohio, we know that those residents have been exposed to significant amounts of toxic metals, as well as other very poisonous carcinogenic compounds from combustion, from burning. Because we're in a new world now. You know, we don't even call them wildfires. We call them.

Urban wildfire, interface fires, something like that. But really what they are, Joe, is they're industrial fires.

They're burning houses, they're burning businesses and cars.

Cars, computers, a lot of plastics, polyvinyl chloride. And so what we're dealing with now, and Dr. Fine and I are actually working with this amazing organization of the residents of the Eaton fire who are surviving, is to really try and understand more about their exposures. Because from the small amount of data that we have, because people have had to generate this through their own expense, we are seeing very high levels of metals as well as other very harmful compounds like cyanide. So, you know, sadly, these compounds are carried in wildfire smoke for a very long distance.

Right. So it's not just the actual Eaton fire resident. No, they're getting brunt of it.

But the plume, you know, if you look at a map of the of la, the Eaton fire, the plume went directly south and a little bit west or east, I'm sorry. And so all of the inhabitants of Los Angeles that were south of, I think it's Altadena, the Eaton fire was in, are exposed as well. So this, this is a major exposure, but it's not uncommon.

There's fires everywhere now and. But it's not even these wildfires or these incidents. They're like you said, 9, 11. That was a big one in a different way. But there was combustion. There was a lot of debris, of course, East Palestine, like you said. Well, that was a massive explosion, I believe. Yeah. All these other events, like what is combustion, the big thing? And then obviously that goes up, wind carries it.

Well, it's not even that. That's only one scenario of exposure we have, unfortunately in the United States. This is documented by the Environmental Protection Agency. Exposure through our water system. Sadly, there are about, I can't remember the most current figure, but I think historically within the last decade we've looked at about 5 million people who are exposed to significant amounts of pesticides in their water. We know that lead is a huge problem, as is arsenic, a huge problem in the tap water. So what's coming out of the tap that people are drinking? This is all documented by a group called the Environmental Working Group that has taken the EPA data and organized them in an extremely wonderful database called the Tap Water Database, which you can access for free and you can look by zip code and you can see all the contaminants in your particular zip code and all the other.

Levels of contamination of all the contaminants that are documented.

I've looked at that before. Yeah. Is that EWG.org correct?

Tap water database. And you know, when we train our doctors, we train them how to figure out what the high risk contaminant exposures are for their patients by looking at where they live, by looking at where they work, by looking at where they have lived in the past. All of this data, much of this data is available to us through websites like EWG as well as the epa, which maintains a database of all the Superfund sites. And you know, about one out of five kids lives within three miles of a Superfund site. So, you know, it's not uncommon.

Can you define that really?

Yeah. A Superfund site is a site that has been determined by the EPA to have significant contamination of Toxins either through the air, through the water, or through the soil. So this could be a municipal waste site. It could be, you know, a dump site. It can be industrial leakage. It could be anything. And people don't know. I mean, they're not going to get an email that says, hey, guess what? You live in a Superfund site. There are thousands of Superfund sites all over the country at any given moment that the EPA is trying to remediate. But the funds for that remediation come through a bill, a law that was passed decades ago called the CERCLA legislation. And sadly, most states have already used up their CERCLA funds. So it is difficult for that remediation to take place. I'm sure you've heard of a woman named Erin Brockovich.

Of course, yeah.

She now maintains a very wonderful website. I wish I knew the name of it. But it's probably easy to find where she actually crowdsources current.

Water system contamination events. And there are hundreds of them. I'm on her E list, so I get emails from her every day.

I'm looking it up right now. I'll find it.

It would be a good resource to list.

So, yeah, good.

All of us are exposed to significant amount of toxicants, even if we take measures to avoid them. So, for instance, I'll use myself an example, please. I do it all. I have an air filter, a water filter, I eat organic food, blah, blah, blah, on and on. And I recently measured my forever chemical burden. So, forever chemicals, we know them as Gore Tex and Teflon. And there are thousands of different chemicals in this class. We have been exposed to them through our water supply. Sadly, the Environmental Working Group has a map that is current of all of the contamination sites for these perfluorinate chemicals so that you can look in your zip code and see if you have water contamination. So I don't have water contamination where I have lived for the past 25 years. I historically have lived and was born in areas where there were water contamination. So my blood perflorenate levels are now and I am 70.

High.

But that's from. Not from your own doing as you've been in your 70 awesome years. It's from what you've inherited from your parents.

Wow. No, it is what I drank when I was a kid.

Ah, okay.

Right. And so we call these chemicals forever chemicals because they're fluorine and carbon bonded. And this bond is literally impossible to break. So Dr. Fine and I have been meeting with some scientists from Eurofins Laboratory, which is in the United States now, they've come over from Europe and they call themselves Empower dx. With the scientists that developed the test, the blood test for perflorenates. It's just a do it yourself, poke your finger at home test. It's very good, actually. And what we understand from them is that every person they've ever tested has some level of detectable performance. The center for Disease Control knows this and they have given doctors guidance for what to do. Now, here's the catch. There is no guidance about how to get perflorenates out of the body. Right. The guidance says, well, you gotta check for thyroid cancer and testicular cancer in men, and you've gotta look at.

Altered blood fat levels, cholesterol levels, and it causes thyroid disease and fatty liver disease and on and on. But there's no guidance from the CDC about how to get these chemicals out of human bodies. However.

We know that from some really good data in Australia, they've looked at firefighters. Firefighters, because of their exposure, they're one of the most hazardous occupations. We've got to help firefighters. They really need our help because they do such a heroic, literally job. And they have one of the highest risks for cancer of any occupation. So these Australian researchers said to the firefighters, we're going to have you donate plasma as well as blood. And so they looked at firefighters with no donation. They looked at blood donation, they looked at plasma donation. The firefighters that actually brought their levels of perfluorinates back down to normal over a period of a couple of years were those that donated plasma.

So it's a donation, not even the full tpe. But interesting.

Well, getting plasma out of the body, let's say that, right. We know that a lot of these perflorinates are carried in the blood, that they live in the blood and are carried in the blood. That's why I think one of the thousands of reasons, but one of the main reasons that I think that the pioneering technology of plasmapheresis, you know, the therapeutic plasmapheresis, is the way that we can actually identify one. What I think is one of the most concerning toxicants in our environment and in our bodies that nobody is talking about. I mean, I think it's becoming more common knowledge that you don't want to use Teflon and you don't want to, you know, marinate yourself and you don't want to rub your Gore Tex jacket all over your skin anymore.

Yeah, I bring it up to friends all the time and it's almost like you know, eyes get wide. They want to know.

I'm like, clinicians as well, because clinicians are like, who cares? We can't do anything about it now. We can. So, you know, I have listened to, educated myself about perflorence, probably read every study that's ever been written and written a lot and educate our clinicians about it. And it is dangerous. I mean, the studies looking at fatty liver disease in children correlated with their perflorenate levels. This stuff is not benign in any way, shape or form. We have made a big Boo Boo by and 3M the company. If you want to learn about performance, watch the movie Dark Waters with Mark Ruffalo. That is probably one of the most entertaining. It's based on the true story of contamination of the Ohio river valley of 70,000 people that were heavily contaminated with perflorenates in their drinking water by the 3M company that knew exactly what they were doing. And Mark Ruffalo plays the lawyer that was brave enough to actually defend some of the farmers and the people that were watching their. Their cattle get sick and die as a result.

So, yeah, it's Dupont. It looks like. Yeah.

Oh, Dupont. Sorry.

That's okay. No, I, I haven't seen the movie. I just looked it up.

But yeah, 3at3m also did the same thing, but they did it in the Great Lakes area.

Oh, yeah, sorry. Maybe the first time this happened. But either way, yeah, that will link that. I want to watch that. I have not seen it. I've heard of it.

Oh, yeah, please. It's very. It's highly entertaining and you learn a lot about performance. But bottom line is that these are the toxicants we need to worry about. Right? We need to, we need to be concerned and attentive to all of them. But we as clinicians, we know how to get lead out of the body. There's a very, you know, we've been doing that since the 50s EDTA chelation. We know how to get the other metals out of the body, except for aluminum, which is kind of difficult. And I know the data. I've seen Dr. Savage present his data on the ability of TPE to completely eliminate aluminum in the blood, which, pretty impressive data.

But there are certain, like microplastics. We don't know how to get those out of the body. And now that we know that microplastics are found in penile tissue and in blood vessels, everybody in the medical world is horrified and paying very close attention. Believe me.

After this whole journey, what I really learned here is like, there are a lot of health conscious people. I think I'm considering myself one as well. But there's a lot of things, no matter what, what you do, how much.

You pay attention to it, how much.

You avoid it, and sometimes they just got in. And I think TPE give me a good opportunity to restart my body again.

I think we have good technologies for getting many of the other toxicants out of the body, but the ability to do plasma exchange is probably the most heartening, exciting, I think revolutionary technology that I have seen because we can address these toxins that we didn't know how to address before. Literally the ones that, you know, keep us awake at night. I mean, once you both test enough people for perflorenets and you understand the research and the literature of which there is a lot looking at the relationship of disease to levels of performance in the blood. And now with what we already know, what Dr. Fine is teaching us about micro and nanoplastics, you know, these are the ones to worry about.

And it seems like with the more technology, the better screening or testing, it's almost like you uncover more. Right? Like that's what I kind of gathered without her totally saying those exact words. But like nanoplastics and what's to say all these other chemicals have other variations that we just haven't detected or know how to look for.

And I think the other really heartening part of this from the, the research and the data that Dr. Savage has shared with me is that the human body does have the ability to be resilient. So, you know, in his, he's such a forward thinking scientist, so, you know, he tests people six months later, did they retoxify, did they detoxify? Can they maintain that level of low toxicant body burden that they were able to gain with the plasma exchange? Yes, they can.

That's incredible.

We know even though he is really good about educating them in the areas of water filtration and air filtration and food selection, you know, you just don't want to eat non organic food, period.

And even that, that can be sometimes kind of sketchy in some regards.

We can go into that. But basically because he teaches them avoidance, there's that much more that doesn't come into their exposure area. But you know, you go outside and exercise and breathe and you ring exposed. Right. So I think what he has done is created a model for getting a human body back to the place where that human body can be resilient. And to me, that's the most impressive of all the data. To me, the 6 month post last TPE is the most impressive because I know that people are constantly exposed. We can't help it. It's just the world we live in, right? And I am so impressed by the capacity of the human body, given the right nutritional support, the right avoidance protocols to maintain a level of health and capacity to excrete these toxicants that are in our everyday exposure. We have a test that looks in the urine. This is kind of an illustrative point. And this test looks in the urine for metabolites of plastics and solvents and personal care product pollutants. And it's in everybody and that means.

It'S coming through us.

Yes. Worried when you don't see it. Because when you don't see it, those are usually the sicker patients who don't have the capacity to detoxify these everyday exposures. Right. So what we know from that testing, and there are hundreds of thousands of data points there in those urine metabolite toxicant panels, is that we are exposed and we do detoxify and eliminate these chemicals on a daily basis. Bisphenols, phthalates, there are a whole family of phenolic compounds that we eliminate. So we know we're exposed, we have proof of it, and we know that some people are better at detoxifying than others are. So if we give those folks overall detoxification support, basically nutritional support, and we get rid of the reservoir of historical exposures, I think this really gives the human race so much hope.

It sounds like it. And I like how you're illustrating TPE therapeutic plasma exchange in this way. Of course, Dr. Savage has outlined a lot of it here and talked in detail. But it's interesting when you say, and maybe this was before, but our body burden, like a lot of that has come from, of course the environment is playing to that. But we inherit so much from, I mean, we're seeing, like you said, babies coming out.

We do. And in fact, one of the protocols that's available for TPE is a pre conception protocol. We are at a point on planet Earth in 2025 where it is advisable for men and women who are planning to conceive to do something prior to conception. Because toxicants, as well as some of the downstream damage from those toxicants can be carried through the sperm. Right. Sperm can be both.

Minimal in terms of their population. They can also be damaged. The individual sperm can be damaged. So I think we're at a point where we really need to understand the concept of preconception detoxification as a necessity. That's much more common in the European Union than it is here in the United States. It is difficult because, you know, there's a problem with infertility in the first place. However, I think there are some real important scientific principles about, you know, cleaning house before you try to get pregnant that really, A, make it much easier and B, ensure a full term pregnancy of a healthy human infant. So all of those three stages. Right. You want to make sure that preconception, you get healthier during conception, you get healthier and that your infant is healthy when it's born at term.

Is there any way currently to test children? Obviously little or body.

Sure.

Yeah. Tell me about this.

Absolutely. Yeah. We test children if they have adhd, ADD pans, pandas, or are on the autism spectrum anywhere for metals. We can certainly test them for perflorence. We can test them for. We can test them for mycotoxins. We can test kids for anything. We can test adults for.

And we do urine, right? Yeah, it's urine tests.

It's blood and urine. Blood and urine.

Is there. So what protocols, I guess, for children, what would you see? I haven't heard of any TPE being done on children, at least not.

It's being done in Europe right now. It's being pioneered in Europe. We don't do it here in the United States. I think that what we can do with kids is we can actually look for metals in their blood and urine. We can look. A big problem with kids is their microbiome is really messed up. And we can actually look for and address that. Absolutely.

Yeah. Well, that would be an interesting. Maybe that's another topic for the future we can dive deep on. But that's. Yeah, the fact that you have. Sounds like a lot of hope and you know, with TPE as it's coming out now, and Dr. Savage is certainly pioneering that, and that's what we're trying to do here with Spring. Bring awareness, educate not only the general population, but physicians, people in the. In the health space.

Right. So I would absolutely.

Advocate for TPE in anyone who has elevated levels of perfluorinates in their blood.

That's the epa, CDC approved way to test for perfluorinance is in the blood.

In the blood.

And I think that According to the CDC, there are three categories of evaluation of those levels. One is below 2 nanograms, one is between 2 and 20 and one is above 20. That's the real danger area is when you've got per florinates above 20 nanograms. We believe it's per mil, especially in those who are in that middle category where I am between 2 and 20 ng, who have an increased risk for any of the conditions that are associated with perfloreness, like fatty liver disease, like thyroid disease, elevated cholesterol levels.

Et cetera. And we'll go through the long list. There are certain cancers like testicular cancer, kidney cancer, thyroid cancer. Absolutely. To do, if possible, as much as they can to get the performance out of their body.

Got it.

And it looks like. And more data is going to be forthcoming that plasma removal, whether it's plasma donation, which is kind of an ethical problem. Right. You don't want to be putting perfluorinate laden plasma back into the blood supply.

Right. I was thinking about that. I'm like, wait, we're donating this? Interesting.

That's what they did in the Australian firefighter study because they didn't have any other option.

But there is a.

Protocol to do therapeutic phlebotomy to remove blood from the body.

But now we have the ability to get plasma out of the body.

Yeah.

Ethically.

Ethically, yes. And. And yeah. So keep your eye on this. And of course we'll keep reporting MD lifespan. Dr. Savage talked a lot about it. You can definitely explore. We have all the links and everything, but yeah. And different protocols depending on your situation. I brought up mold to you earlier and you know, I was just personally curious from. Because I saw some content that you put out, but at like a, I guess a high level. We won't go. We don't really have the time to go super deep on the mold stuff. But I guess, quick thoughts on. I guess because I, I personally have a whole bunch of that in me. I did a whole episode actually outlining my toxin test.

Oh, great.

Free to share. And I'll happy to share any experience I have with TPE as well. But yeah, what are your thoughts on mold? Especially in places maybe that like people are like, how do I have mold? I live in a hot place. For instance, is it food? Is it other things?

So my mentor, Dr. William Ray, who has been treating patients who are extremely ill from mold exposure since the 60s and 70s, if you can imagine that. Said to me, there are two basic mistakes that humans have made. One is building homes with.

Plasterboard, wallboard, drywall, whatever you want to call it. That's a petri dish for mold. Literally every house mold lives. Every house mold lives on cellulose. That's cellulose. The second is that I cannot Remember the decade. So forgive me, let's say that 80s or 90s antifungals were added to paint because you've got a drywall that's growing mold and silly theory of putting an antifungal coating of paint over your petri dish to somehow keep your home for your pain from getting moldy.

Lock it in there. Right?

I don't know. IQs have been going down since the time of Queen Victoria apparently. And this is, and seriously. And this is evidence for that. Right. Is that makes no sense at all. The problem is that that phenomenon increased the amount of mutant molds that are resistant to that antifungal that's added to pain. It's still in there. They used to use mercury and they found out, oh, that's not a good idea. When a little kid died after sleeping in a room that was painted with mercury laden paint.

So they took the mercury out and put these antifungals in. So we now have these resistant molds, resistant to anything that tries to kill them that are in our petri dish homes, whether or not.

We live in a moldy place. I practiced in Tucson, Arizona for a couple decades. There are a lot of dry molds in Arizona. There are also these contraptions on the, the roofs of the homes called swamp coolers. Not so much anymore. They were older. Right. Where you have a pan of water and you have a flywheel going around that literally shoots humidified air into the homes. Which works great as long as your humidity is like below 50%.

And.

There are lots of environments in dry areas that will grow molds and lots of molds that grow at very low humidity levels. So we have a lot of mold problems in Arizona. The other problem I don't think Dr. Fine talked about this is that copper plumbing very often will respire. I don't know how else to say that. You can get micro leaks. You can get micro leaks in copper plumbing that then pushes water out of the plumbing and into whatever the environment is. Like, I don't know, drywall. So there are a lot of kind of mini mansions, you know, in California and other places where there is mold hidden behind. It's invisible. You can't tell it's there. As a result of this little problem with the copper tubing, copper plumbing.

I've had some friends have that exact issue. Yeah. And they don't know it. And then this whole. The whole house is either engulfed or a room. And you would never know. And it's just the tiniest little drip that's happening.

Exactly so most mold is invisible. You know, you see those horrific pictures of stachybotrys black mold on the walls. You hardly ever see that. It's mostly. You don't see anything. And you've got people living in that home that are all really sick with allergies, you know, or asthma or chronic fatigue or myalgia is, you know, sore muscles and joints. It's. Runs the gamut. Or depression. It runs the gamut.

Okay. Well. And luckily, tpe, at least, that's why. That's. That's a large motivator.

So it appears from the preliminary evidence we have, that mycotoxin levels go down in the urine after tpe, much as we would hope they do in an environment where you get people out of their moldy homes. Right now, we don't know. I haven't seen the data. All the TPE patients where we've looked at mycotoxins pre and post, how many of those were currently exposed? How many of those had remediated, how many of those had left the environment? So that all has to be factored into it. But in general, again, what we're doing is getting a significant enough portion of those mycotoxins out of the circulating plasma that the body has less to excrete in the urine.

Right.

I think Dr. Carnahan probably talked about this in graphic detail. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Joe Carnahan. Yeah. So she's. She's awesome. And definitely the expert, and we'll point out to her as well.

Great.

Yeah. Well, Dr. Lynn Patrick, this is. I. I laugh just because there's so much new information. I get every single episode, but this one is. You just went down some rabbit holes.

That I did. I know. It's my job.

It's my job. Well, you're opening minds, and I think that's. That's exactly what. I love that you. You are all doing that. Continue it, please. Anything we can do to support you, we will. And.

I guess two things. So let's remind people where they should go to follow you and everything.

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

So we have a platform where we educate physicians. We also have some consumer courses for the public brought on by.

Our frustration about what happened in East Palestine and what we want to do to help everybody understand how to avoid toxic exposures. And then we do have a podcast which is available, where we talk about all of this stuff, and we've been talking about it for years, every month. So it is both problem and solution. In a podcast, we review the medical literature, we look at all areas of Toxic and exposure. And we also look at solutions.

No one else really is thinking about the solutions.

We're on this interesting time and this is where I kind of want to. I ask this often but like what's the thing that like when you project out 5ish years or so, what makes you hopeful, excited, obviously TPE you talked a lot about.

Yes, so what, what makes me hopeful and excited is that we will now, at that point, five years from now, we will more easily be able to understand the human exposome. We'll have better lab testing, cheaper lab testing, and we'll have SOL both in the area of there's all this amazing stuff going on in the water filtration and water purification arena to get perflorence out of the US water supply. Over half of the US water supply is polluted with perflorenates right now, contaminated with perflorence. And I am on one of the engineer websites for water purification and they're doing amazing things like that's going to be totally different in five years. We're going get performance out of the water supply. So we will keep poisoning people and being able to actually get rid to enough of an extent of the human body burden that people can return to their natural immune competence and resilience as humans. That to me is really exciting. You know, we didn't talk about the whole Spike protein issue, but I think there will be great strides in dealing with long COVID vaccine injury, et cetera. There already have been, but I think it's going to be better. And I think that TPE is a big part of that. A big part of that. They're doing some research in Europe actually looking at changes in Spike protein with plasma filtration, plasma exchange.

Okay, maybe that's the next episode. We do pretty soon together.

I can connect you with the scientist in Germany who's doing that.

That would be even better. Yeah, well, I'll have you on as well.

But she's better. She will be the one you need to talk to.

Yeah, cool. Thank you so much. Well, this again, my mind is swelled with new information and thank you for doing the work for so many years. And you're just deep in the research where other people just aren't and not their fault. You know, life and all that.

We're all doing our best to try and learn everything we can about this and work for solutions. And I, especially after Dr. Savage's pioneering research, I am very helpful. I haven't been this helpful in a long time.

Wow. All right, well, let's get in on that positive note there. And thank you so much for your time, Dr. Patrick.

Oh, you're so welcome.

Yeah, take care. Have a great one.