Negotiation Skills 101: Driving the Conversation You Want

Oh, hey, we're live.

Hi. All right, everyone, welcome. Today's Facebook live with HubSpot Academy. My name's Hannah Fleishman, and I run our inbound recruiting efforts here at HubSpot. And today we are going to be learning from Barrett King all about negotiation 101 and how to drive a conversation in the direction that you want. So first of all, HubSpot Academy is the kind of number one HubSpot official resource for learning. So all things inbound marketing and sales, check out their Facebook page. Check out HubSpot Academy for free workshops, classes, and resources. Now, talking about negotiation, the reason we're going to learn from Barrett today is because he has a lot of experience both on the sales side and on the people ops side of HubSpot working on negotiation. So in his time here, Barrett's done sales training. He's been a growth consultant, and today he's a senior agency partner, partner manager. So, Barrett, do you want to tell us a little bit about why you are the person to tell us about negotiation today?

Oh, the person.

No pressure.

Yeah, no pressure at all. So thank you, Hannah. I actually have done all of those jobs. That's one of the fun things about working at HubSpot is I get a chance to do a bunch of different things. And so for me, negotiation exists all throughout each of those roles throughout your lives. Right. And so when we started talking about some of the things that I do daily and talking about ideas for a session like this, for a chance for us to share some HubSpot knowledge and experience, realizing that negotiation was more than just a sales tactic, but a way to get that promotion, a way to go ahead and move forward in your career with a next role or a next progression, but also just a way to exist kind of in your daily life. So we negotiate out of traffic tickets. We negotiate the kids bedtime. We do all these different things every day. And so the idea of our conversation today is just to give you a little bit of tactical skills, some things that you can take away to use, whether it be on your next sales call or with your 4 year old trying to get them to go to sleep at night. And at the same time, make it human. Right. So selling has changed, and selling is more human now than it's ever been. And so the idea of our conversation today is to really get involved with how negotiation should be human. So I'm super excited to do this. I really am. And I'm really curious to see where everyone is. Right. I know we've got folks dialing in from all over the place. So we'd love to have you comment and jump in and tell us where you're calling in from as a starting point. For sure.

Yep. And I have two things to add before Barrett's going to jump into his negotiation tactics to share with us. One, you hit the nail on the head about making it more human. And to Barrett's point, let us know where you're watching from and what questions you have. If you're negotiating salary or going after a promotion or looking for a job or it's something in your day to day work, let us know what it is so we can make sure we answer those questions. Second, important thing is, Barrett, I love your outfit because it looks exactly like mine.

Looks like stagehands. We should be at a play right now.

All black. Can't go wrong. Oh, cool. So we have people from Brooklyn. We have people from Chattanooga. Do you know where that is?

Tennessee.

Oh, four factoids. Very nice. All right, well, welcome, everyone. Keep letting us know where you're from and let us know your questions and we can get started. So while people are getting involved in tuning in, Barrett, can you tell us kind of the one thing. I know you told us a little bit about what we're going to talk about. Can you tell us kind of the one thing that we should first know about negotiation before we get started?

Yes. Negotiation is interesting. I think a lot of people have a common misconception that it's really difficult. Right. So if you look at your screen right now, one of the things that I think this, for me is a perfect way to describe negotiating around is that it's not a battle. Right. We all think that it's this fight, this war, this battle you have to go through to get to the end game. But with the way that buyers are making decisions now, negotiating is much more of a conversation, and it really should be that. But I know from. From talking to my colleagues and from talking to new hires when I was a trainer, just from my own experience, that getting started really can be very difficult. So one of the key things when you think about starting off with negotiation is just to do that, just to broach the subject and have a conversation about it, to not be afraid to start the dialogue and let it go where it may. And so negotiation really comes down to a couple core things. And so one of the first things we're going to touch on today is the six rules of negotiation. Right. So at HubSpot, we think about a bunch of different. We'll call them Guardrails, if you will, that go into each of these types of conversations. And so I like to start with the six rules because it helps just to give hopefully the folks at home a little bit of a tactical takeaway. So grab your pen, grab your paper, start typing away in a notepad in the background. But starting right from the top, one of the things to keep in mind when you're negotiating is that the first person to give a number, and I'll come back to this later on, but I call it dropping the anchor. The first person to give a number or an option really is the one that loses. And so what I mean by that is that you've ultimately given exactly up your position, right? Your stance. Where you are, you can't move forward, you can't move back, you are where you are, you're kind of stuck and set in stone. And so if you don't actually position yourself there, then you have the chance to be flexible, you have the chance to work with your prospect more. So you don't want to negotiate on top of that unless you have the five W's, which we're going to get into next. So I'll move beyond that. And also remember to always negotiate either face to face or on the phone. It doesn't work via email or text or WhatsApp or any of the other applications that you can communicate in. Nowadays it's actually really important to make sure that you have a legitimate conversation. Right.

So I have a question about that, please.

Yeah.

As someone who has never worked in sales or in a role that you are naturally on the phone a lot. Personally, I do a lot of content creation, a lot of writing and a lot of stuff. On the recruitment front, I'm not on the phone that often and phone calls for me can sometimes be a little bit nerve wracking. If someone calls to have a serious conversation, I might not be as flipped as I am over email. How do you think people can get more practice being comfortable on the phone if they're not salespeople?

That's a great question. So first, phone a friend. It seems like it's a simple thing, but pick up the phone and call a friend that you haven't talked to in a while and just have a conversation. Play the sort of what are you doing? What are you up to? What's new? The thing that we always do when we catch up with a friend, play that game. But remember that obviously you're talking to and what you should think about is you're talking to a friend, essentially when you're going through this process of selling or negotiating, looking for your promotion or Maybe even your 4 year old from our example earlier. So it's important to humanize it. And so I think a lot of people forget that because we text all the time and we're in social media, that you're just talking to another human. And so it shouldn't be more complicated than it actually is.

Definitely. That's a great point. And if you have good friends, they shouldn't mind.

Or grandparents, aunts or uncles.

Grandparents are a great idea.

Any family member that you feel mostly comfortable with is a good place to start.

Or you can call Barrett. We'll share his phone out with absolutely everyone after this.

And you can call Barrett. That's an awesome idea. You should all call me after this. I love that idea. So, yeah. So I think it's important to remember that when you're negotiating over the phone, it's funny, I think some people get caught in the idea that everything is set in stone. You can't be flexible, you can't be dynamic. And so one of the things that I always remind myself of is that other than your list price, your bottom line, the thing that's out there for the world to see, nothing really is concrete. You have options. Right? And so remembering that, like, for example, at HubSpot, one of the things I always think about is what's important to my customer. Is it the price that really is what we're negotiating over? Is that really what they're focused on? Or is it timeline? Is it the fact that they haven't seen enough value in how this can solve their challenge or overcome their hurdle? And that that really is the education gap, more so than actually negotiating that we're missing out on, that's kind of our number four, give or take. And I think number five is to be really smart about closing this thing down, not leaving it open ended. You want to make sure that when you're talking to somebody and you're officially negotiating price or terms, or again, bedtime, we'll keep coming back to that. You want to make sure that you don't leave it open ended. And the reason for that is when you have that wiggle room, that room for error. When you say, we'll pick this back up tomorrow, when you say, go, think about it and come back to me with nothing set in stone, the end result can be really difficult to get to. And what happens is that goalpost keeps moving. And so if you don't actually have something definitive, a timeline to have the next conversation or next steps, then if it keeps moving, you'll never catch up to it. And so I think finally the important thing throughout this entire process to remember is that it should be a one to one conversation. It shouldn't be 10 people in a room or five people on the other end and trying to figure out who's really running the dialogue. Now I recognize that there are a bunch of different circumstances where you may have other folks in the room, whether it be in person or over the phone. But remembering that it's a one to one communication will help to mitigate the multiple voices. And I'm sure we've all been there, right. We think about going to like a party or a crowded dinner or a restaurant and it's loud and it's noisy and it can be really distracting. Well, the same thing happens when people are making decisions. It's important to narrow it down to that one person who's going to ultimately be your point of contact and have that real conversation.

Sure. I have a question about kind of number five and not leaving things open ended. So what are phrases or expressions, if you have any, that are in like your toolkit of how to end a conversation? So I think some people default to things like, okay, I'll wait to hear from you or we'll circle back on this later. What are things that are definitive ways to end it that are kind of comfortable things to say?

Sure. So that's a great question as well. I think one of the things that I always go back to that works well for me and I've seen a lot of my colleagues use it is thinking about, it's called trial close and we're going to talk about this today as well, but essentially asking for the sale. So look, what are the things, for example. So Hannah, what are the things that are keeping you right now from making this a yes? And folks often get uncomfortable and they say, well, I just, we're not sure yet, we need to talk about it. And great. So let's just assume for a second that you are going to go talk about this and the answer is yes. When do you want to get started? And when are you ready to get, you know, moving with our product or our service or go to bed? And. And so I think what's important about that and what we find is that when individuals have at least a definitive next step, if nothing else, you're not stuck with that gray area. You're not left open ended in that sense. And so I like the idea of. So when you See this result or when we can show you the value. When does it make sense for you to get started? Or when are you ready to take this next step?

Okay, great. That's helpful. And again, if you're just joining us now, if you have comments throughout about anything that Barrett mentions or examples you want to see more of, let us know in the comments, and we will answer those directly from the King himself.

Oh, wow. That's just so much. Okay, cool. So with that in mind, we're going to keep moving. So we're going to dig into, just for a second here, the five W's, and here's the reason for that. We've heard or seen probably a graphic like this, this phrase before. We all know the who, what, where, when, and why. But when you're negotiating, when you're thinking about trying to close a prospect into that next stage of your sales process, negotiate your next raise, your next promotion, what's important about the 5Ws is bringing them all together and so understanding that we need to know who's actually the decision maker, who's in charge? Who's the person that's going to answer this question for us, and what are their objections? What are the reasons that they may not go forward? Or more importantly, what are they trying to buy? What service are they trying to bring on board? Where are they actually making this decision from? Is it that individual you're speaking to, or are there other people involved? Is there a VP of finance you haven't heard of yet? Those are always fun. The surprise person at the end, I've got a partner I didn't know about or a colleague that wasn't brought in earlier.

So to avoid that being a surprise, how do you find that out up front?

I love that question, too. So I like to just invite everybody to the party in the sense that I say, look, so who else can benefit from this conversation or who else might see value or add value to our next call? And I set the expectation that our conversation is going to be that. It's a conversation, it's a dialogue. It's not a negotiation so much as it is us figuring out the best solution for you.

Got it.

And I think what works really well with that is then they know that and it's the next W here, the when comes into play. Right. And so when being that you want to get started tomorrow, you want to close your deal or get your promotion, but they may not have that same timeline. They may not be there yet.

Yeah. So on the kind of. On the when front, so Bobby just asked a question on Facebook Live, which is a good one, related to kind of when and how to drop the anchor, as you mentioned before, without it feeling forced. So for Bobbi, what's a good way to get someone to drop the anchor without making it feel too forced or heavy handed?

I like it. Yeah. So I love that question. Thanks, Bobby. I think one of the things you're going to find out that works really well and this is heart really not easy to do is the power of silence. Now, I won't do it to you here, but it's the power of silence. Right. And it's. Hannah got nervous for a second. It's being really quiet. It's being really quiet. Right. So don't try it with your significant other, but try it with a friend or a relative that's really patient. But ask a question and then stop. So what would it take for you to get started today and then stop and hit mute on your phone if you have to, or take the microphone away or put the phone down if you have to. Whatever it takes to allow for that uncomfortability to develop. Right now we're a generation of instant gratification. We've got text, social media, etc. We want the answer tomorrow. So if you're negotiating with someone in the, let's say, millennial generation, you're going to find that your answer comes pretty quickly. Typically as you start to go before or after that, it does change, the dynamic changes because those folks grew up with a different way of interacting, a different way of communicating.

Sure.

But Bobby, my suggestion is to always go back to the power of silence and remember that when you ask that question. And if you can be the stronger person, if you can raise up and rise above it, you're going to be able to have them drop their anchor, you're going to have them put their foot down, and then you have the ability to have a true conversation from there.

Cool. Absolutely. And David just asked a really good question, which is also one that was on my mind. I think we've all been in a situation where you are specifically with job offers, you are asked to give your salary expectation. For example, over the phone, you had mentioned the first person who gives a number automatically loses. So what if you're asked on the spot, what's your budget? What are you expecting to spend on this? Or what's your salary expectation? How would you handle that?

Yeah. So prospects do that all the time. That's a really awesome question, David. So here's the way that I Think about that. Arrange is okay. We recognize that for some companies, a pricing conversation is very transparent. They have like HubSpot does a pricing page and you can see what all of our software costs and it's pretty transparent like that. For others, it's less so. But what's important to keep in mind is that you know as you go throughout that process. Right. Being ultimately transparent about the range, but not necessarily locking it down to. But we'll get you to where you need to be and then here's where you need to be without knowing. So let me clarify that. Right. So HubSpot's pricing is between $220 $400 in a monthly sense. Right. My response, when prospects ask me, which is the honest truth, is I don't know where you land. I know that a majority of our customers land somewhere below half of that, somewhere around 800 to $1,000 a month in their spend because that's the results that they need. So they invest that kind of money. And so as we go throughout our conversation, Mr. And Mrs. Prospect, we'll figure out the best fit for you. And so I just commit to better understanding your challenges and prescribing the right solution. And so now I've answered their question, I've made them feel comfortable, but I haven't necessarily said, you know, it's $1,000 a month. But don't worry, we'll work out a deal for you because then I'm dropping my anchor and I'm showing my hand.

True, definitely. And specifically to salary expectations. Working with recruiters a lot, as we both have, it's not a best practice for companies to ask, what are you making now? I think it's fair to shift that question if that is being asked to. I'd actually prefer to tell you my expectations for the role. You don't have to tell a company what you're making now, if that helps.

Yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad you brought that up as well, because I think the. It's really the last of the W's is the why. Right. Why are you looking to make a change in your role? Why are you looking to adjust the way that, you know, your business has a strategy in terms of your marketing approach to go to market or your sales strategy or whatever it may be. Because understanding the why really is the difference between you just talking about a number, but then actually taking that context and connecting it to the of value. Right. And so ultimately, when you can get that why, then that context and value come together and your actual Conversation is a dialogue and less of a back and forth or an argument, if you will. And so in continuing from there, one of the things that's really important is setting the tone, right? So I know we had some folks ask me about like the good cop, bad cop kind of strategy and that does work sometimes, but it depends on the tone that you're setting with that person. Right. So for example, I have a colleague who often negotiates some pretty large deals. And when he does that, he needs to go to finance, he needs to have approval to work through the different moving parts of that deal. And so it's not necessarily good cop, bad cop in the sense that it's forced, but it's the reality. Your voice matters. And so what he often does is he says, look, I'll go on your behalf, I'll make a business case and we'll figure out how to make it work. I have another colleague, she's a little bit different. She doesn't have to sell those larger deals because a lot of the clients she works with are our mid market clients and so she advocates for them. Her voice is essentially speaking to the tone of that. This is not going to be a good cop, bad cop. This is just the reality. We're going to figure out the best solution for you. We're going to meet that need. And in order to meet that need, you're going to need to invest this amount of money. And so it takes a lot of that ambiguity and that sort of gray area off the table. And I think folks nowadays feel really comfortable with the idea of a little bit less good cop, bad cop. And that's not always, it's dependent on your industry, I should say. It's not always the case. But a little bit less good cop, bad cop, and a little bit more of just transparency and honesty. Because that's the way that we all buy and sell nowadays.

Definitely.

Yeah. So thinking about tone and thinking about how to leverage it, really, it's not just about what you say so much as how you say it. And it's important.