Mindset Mastery with Dr. Julie Gurner - Performance in Life and Business | Peter Lohmann's Podcast

Think about it. Success is a game of energy. And so if that's true, the people who are obsessed, they have endless energy toward that thing. I mean, whether you are a scientist looking at slides all day and you're determined to find the cure for cancer, or you are an athlete who is just obsessed with being the best, you know, wide receiver that's going to be in the NFL and you're going to practice that over and over and over again, that person is going to be more successful go further, not tire, have more energy than the person who feels like I'm going to be disciplined, so I'm going to go and run routes. So I always think about discipline as our backup, right? Like, or it's something that we're going to use to start a new pattern. Sometimes it's where we have to push ourselves. And it is amazing how when you start pulling people into what they love to do and what they're great at and they find energy in, how much further it pushes the company or their career forward.

Welcome back to Peter Lohmann's podcast. I'm thrilled today to be here with Dr. Julie Gerner. Dr. Gerner, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you.

Thank you so much for having me. As I said prior to our arrival on video here, you and I have known each other for quite some time on social media.

Yeah, it's been fun corresponding back and forth on Twitter. You've got an amazing Twitter account. I'll shout that out right at the top. You've got over 140-some thousand followers on there, just sharing all kinds of awesome advice for entrepreneurs and business leaders and folks looking to move up in their career. That was originally sort of how we connected was Twitter. I was going through some of my notes and I have a tweet of yours from 4 years ago that I have printed out and it sits with me in my folder that I take when I do my solo, my annual solo retreat. And sort of like gear up and think about the upcoming year. And we'll, we'll get into what's in that tweet and why I reference it. But yeah, your, your work has had an impact on me and it's, it's such a pleasure to be able to kind of get into discussion with you today. Awesome. So I want to jump right in and start with one of my favorite topics, which is mindset. And you're, you're an executive performance coach, so you spend a lot of time with leaders who are either already have an awesome mindset and they're looking to tweak and tune, or folks who need a mindset upgrade in order to sort of unlock That next level. And I wanted to sort of distinguish or ask how you distinguish this concept of a, of an, of a mindset advantage versus where a lot of people sort of default, which is this idea of technical skills or even like soft skills or how you relate to other people in a lot of the literature and discussions. That's sort of the two pillars of like success. But this idea of a mindset, I think, is distinct. I'd love to hear you share a little bit about how you think about that.

That's a really fantastic question. I think a lot of people would do well to ask it. You know, mindset is really the ultimate performance lever because when you talk even about soft skills or hard skills or technical skills, you have to be the person that thinks that they can learn it, that has a self-belief that they are capable of learning it, that they take the steps to learn it. So even those things begin at mindset. But I see it really as the ultimate performance lever because in your business and in your work, whether you're somebody who's an employee or you're someone who's driving their own business, What are the risks you're going to take? What is your risk tolerance? How do you think about that? How do you think about the decisions that you're going to make? How do you approach those decisions? What are the things that hold you back in some decisions? How quickly are you making those decisions, right? What opportunities do you see? Which ones do you go for? How big do you strive? All of those things are based really internally to you. And people, I think, sometimes underestimate how important those things are to where you end up. And, you know, oftentimes we'll look at these entrepreneurs or we'll look at business owners or even people people who are really influential in their careers and will say, my goodness, that person is like a one of one. But what makes them the one of one? It isn't that they're so technically savvy. Usually it's because of the risk appetite, because of what they took on. And so, you know, who you are in your mindset probably impacts the bottom line more than any other variable out there. And I think that's why I find it to be so incredibly important and why I talk about it all the time.

So I run into a lot of folks who have these limiting beliefs when I sort of explore with them what's going on. They have this idea that, well, that wouldn't work for me, or I don't know that I can do that. And this idea of like what you believe is possible, it sounds obvious to say, but like, if you don't believe something is possible, it's certainly not going to happen. You have to believe something is possible before you can go out and achieve it. And then you have to believe that you can do it, right? So it's like this idea of like, it is possible to do, and I'm the one that could actually achieve that. How do we cultivate that in somebody? What are some of the techniques that can improve that, that mindset?

I think you have to ask yourself really hard questions, right? I mean, you have to begin by saying like, if you believe that you can't do it, I would start to really dig into, well, tell me a little bit about why that is. Right? Why can't you do it? And then you start to hear about the reasons that people give, and then you can start to test those reasons. I think you have to be willing to test yourself, and most people will stop at the disbelief. So, you know, when they say, oh, you know, for example, sometimes you'll hear on various, you know, social networks, oh, I could never do that, or this person only does it because they're from a wealthy family, or, you know, you'll hear all of these reasons that people give. Even if you can give a ton of examples that, you know, are outside of their, you know, the excuses that people give themselves, I think you have to be willing to test them. When you say, oh, I could never do that, well, why can't you do it? Well, I don't have the resources. Could you get the resources? You know, like, there are ways in which we can continue to push ourselves and kind of nudge at our edges. I don't think people want to see the edges. I think they like the reasons they give themselves and the reasons they give themselves to settle or to stop or to play smaller, because it keeps them in a very comfortable place. If you start challenging yourself, well, that might mean that you have to force yourself to do things that are novel for you, that are hard for you, that are scary for you, that put yourself out there. And, you know, I think that that's why a lot of people end up getting stuck because, you know, you're either going to, you know, most people, even if they're successful, will usually kind of go in their span of competency and kind of nudge at those edges and keep pushing them forward. And I think that's really effective. But a lot of times if you really want kind of outlier success, you have to do things that are somewhat outside of those comfort zones and they really do have to challenge you. And people struggle with that, you know, understandably. So I do think that when we start giving ourselves reasons why, you know, we can't do something, challenging those reasons is the easiest first step that people can do.

I love that. I'm interested in this idea of like a series of increasingly large wins or successes. I've seen where like you try something, it works. You try the next thing, it's a little bigger, that works. And you, you end up with this killer sense of self-confidence. I had great luck to have parents who really were great at getting that going at a young age for me. And I've really benefited from it. And I, I really want to help instill that in my, in my daughters, because I saw how helpful it was for me. But I think the opposite can be true too. You have a failure. You get down about it, then you try something smaller, then you fail at that. And you sort of get in the psychology of like, I can't do things, I can't complete things, things are just hard, the world's against me. I really— my heart goes out to folks who are kind of in that loop because it's— to me, it seems very difficult to break free from that.

I think one of the things that you said that's so impactful is how people explain the failures. You know, like, I can't do that. Is that the reason why you failed? Is it, you know, like— so I think that once you start explaining the failures in ways that are self-defeating, it really becomes a doom loop. If you can explain the failures by saying, you know, I didn't win this race, but man, I need to train harder, right? Or, hey, I really dropped the ball on this deal. I should have really followed up more, right? So like, can you say like, hey, if I'm a follow-up machine, I'm going to land that deal versus— and explaining the failure by something you see as a possibility for you to do better next time and get that win versus, oh, I'm just not a good dealmaker. Right? Or, "I just can't close. I'm not a closer." So how we even explain our failures can compound our confidence or compound our hesitations. And we're always kind of working toward one angle because, as you said, you know, confidence compounds. You get those small things, you take a little bit more chances, that compounds. It gets you excited to even try bigger things, which is really the kind of secret sauce of it. Whereas when you have failures, You have to be really cautious that it doesn't create this cycle of hesitation or this explanation of the wrong explanation that doesn't promote trying again next time. And I think as a parent, the great thing that you can do around people who, you know, 'cause your kids aren't always gonna win and that's okay, is to how do you explain the failures and making sure that you explain them in empowering ways that give them opportunity and hope to win the next time out.

Absolutely. And, and the failures— I see people go two different directions with failures. One is they externalize it in an unhealthy way. They say the environment was against me, my principal, my teachers, my parents, the world, the interest rates, whatever. That's not healthy. But then they go the other way sometimes and they say, I'm a loser, I can never get anything done. It's like, it's great that they're not blaming other people, but they're— it's actually also not healthy to just say, to have all this negative self-talk. So what, what does a winner say in a moment of, of great failure? How do we temper this?

It's a good question because I, I do think that most people who end up doing big things and winning see their world in what we call in psychology through an internal locus of control. Like, who holds the control for what happens in your life? If you think that other people hold that control, then it's the people who are gonna externalize the challenges, right? Like, I can't get there, the system is against me, my principals, my teachers, my parents, all those things. You also don't wanna be past-focused, right? Like, all these things happened to me 20 years ago and therefore I can't be great today. So there, there's like a real, there's something that we really have to get honest about. Like today you are responsible as long as you're healthy and you have a, you know, average IQ, you know, you're kind of responsible with how things move forward. And the people who will end up doing well You know, they, they have an internal sense of, of control, an internal locus of control where they believe they determine what happens. But then even when they fail, they're able to say, to look at that through almost like a solver mindset. There's a way of like, I can figure this out. Like, I didn't get it this time, but I can figure it out. And sometimes those failures are, you know, really hard hits and you have to kind of start again. You know, even very successful people go to zero sometimes. Sometimes they have massive losses. And those things are both challenging, both internally but also externally, you know, their reputation, their, you know, how other people see you. And so with self-talk, you have to be really careful that, you know, you can be your own biggest critic and drag yourself into the mud, or you can be your own kind of hype beast and get yourself back in the game and know what you're capable of, because the evidence is probably there that you can overcome and you've overcome things in the past, and you want to really use the good stuff as reference points and not use the things that are like, see, I failed now, just like I failed, like when I was in second grade versus, hey, like I may have failed now, but I remember when I was on the football team and, you know, we pulled it off somehow and I just dug deep and I found a way to come back. So we also have to find reference points to show ourselves and tell ourselves what we are capable of doing.

I think it's Moses Kagan who has this great line about like the expiration date on blaming your parents is age 30 or something. He's got, he's got a great thing he pulls out once in a while there. Yeah. The, you mentioned negative self-talk. That's, that's been a thing that I've noticed a lot is that even among very high performance individuals, you hear a lot of things like, oh, I'm such a dummy. Can't believe I did that. And it almost kind of say it in passing, like, oh, and I've overbooked this flight. I'm such a moron or whatever. I've heard various people basically say, hey, try to not do that. Even if it seems innocuous, it kind of builds up in your mind over time. So I've tried to work a couple little things where I've been guilty. I've tried to work that out of a habit or out of my vocabulary. What's your thoughts here? Is this something that we should be paying attention to?

You know, it's really interesting. I have a couple of clients that I really, really appreciate who they are very careful about their language and they'll even correct themselves during our meetings at times. One will say something like, you know, I hope, you know, like next quarter, I hope that we can hit, and then they'll correct themselves and say next quarter we will hit, you know, whatever. And so you'll hear these kind of like almost in vivo corrections about like language. And I always think that that's such a powerful thing that they don't allow themselves space to kind of speak negatively of the results that will come. About themselves personally or professionally, about how their company is going. And they kind of keep themselves in that space. And some people might say, oh, well, that's so— it's not realistic, right? I mean, that's oftentimes like the kind of pushback that you get from external world. And I often think that, you know, staying in realism doesn't mean you stay in negativity. It doesn't mean that you stay in uncertainty. And I think that for a lot of these folks, when you are certain and when you are confident, Why would you project something that isn't? If you do feel you're intelligent, why would you project something or say something about yourself that curtails that? And I think sometimes when you see very successful people doing, oh, I'm such a dummy, or things like that, I often think that even very successful people have learned that a way of being relatable is to kind of kick themselves down a couple notches and everybody can kind of laugh. And then you're like the every guy, you're the, you know, it makes you feel a little bit more relatable. It's probably not a strategy that's great for you cognitively to do that, but I think it is one that works and why people do it. Probably not the most productive thing to do.

That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of that as a reason of why people do that, but that rings true for me. It's like, yeah, they're, they're trying to sort of self-deprecate and yeah, it, it's a good impulse, I think, but maybe not the best way to express it. Today's episode is brought to you by PropertyMild. Let's face it, property maintenance isn't getting any easier. Turnover's high, resident expectations are higher, and your team, they're running on fumes. You don't need more Band-Aids, you need a breakthrough. That's what the 2025 MX Summit delivers. This September, over 400 property management professionals will gather in Rapid City, South Dakota to tackle the toughest maintenance challenges head-on. By the way, I'm gonna be there to trade real strategies with real operators and walk away with answers that actually work. You'll hear from more than 20 of the industry's sharpest minds, myself included, live on stage sharing insights you won't get anywhere else. Tickets are just $1,399. That covers all 3 days of sessions, every networking event, all your meals, and unlimited opportunities to rethink how maintenance gets done. It's a serious strategy with a little fun on the side— sunrise hikes, food trucks, a a downtown pub crawl, and a real South Dakota rodeo. Because great ideas happen when the pressure's off. So if you're ready to stop guessing and start scaling, grab your ticket to the MX Summit at mxsummit.co. That's mxsummit.co. September 16th through the 18th, Rapid City, South Dakota, hosted by PropertyMeld and Easy Repair Hotline. See you there. Thanks again to PropertyMeld for sponsoring this episode. Awesome. I want to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is the power of your environment. I've, I've long noted that when I spend— so I'm in property management, so I spend a lot of time in the early days driving around these rough neighborhoods, which is like where the properties that we were managing at the time were located. And I, I was very amazed that even after just spending an hour or two in a rough part of town surrounded by decay and trash and people loitering and crime. I would come out of that experience like, and my whole world would be shifted a little bit. Now, maybe it was good to be aware that not everyone lives in a nice home. Like, it's nice to be aware of how everyone in the city is living and experiencing life. But it got— it kind of got me feeling down and you're sort of stressed out. And, and then when I would go, my business partner and I would go have lunch at like a really nice you know, hotel, restaurant or something, and you have energized and you have these big ideas and you're like, I belong here. And man, I just, I can't get over this idea of environment and how it affects our mindset. So I, you know, how, what should we be thinking about this? Because there's something about like, you, you, you impact your environment and your environment impacts you. There's a great line. I'm probably mangling that a little bit, but love to hear you touch on this.

Yeah, I think that the way in which I environment, like I think about environment and your environment are inputs, right? They're visual inputs. They're inputs of what you see in the world. It, you're kind of, if you can think about your environment as constant inputs visually and otherwise, even in sensory terms, yeah, it changes how you think about what you surround yourself with. And it also gives you an understanding that if you're going to neighborhoods where you know, there's trash in various places and you hear loud noises and things are— it seems somewhat chaotic. Yeah. That like if the environmental inputs are that challenging, how it impacts the people who live in those environments, you know, seeing those things, hearing those things, having to think about certain other things that, you know, maybe you and I wouldn't have to think about. And it's why it's so challenging to leave them oftentimes, you know, like there is a reinforcer, a message that it gives you being a part of those environments. And especially if you believe you belong in those environments that are particularly challenging. So, you know, there was a— I was living in Philadelphia a while ago, a number of years ago, and something that was always very interesting is that, you know, when people choose to— when people litter, and, you know, why would people— would people be more likely to litter in places where there's already litter versus places that are not? And we know through studies that, like, people are more likely, even the same people are more likely to litter in areas where there's already litter. And it's really, the study really looks at, you know, thinking about how does our environment change how we think about ourselves, how we behave, what we do, how we think. And I think that our environment, our environments are inputs. And so I think about that all the time, even in like your office. What are the inputs you're giving yourself? When you are surrounding it in your workspace. And it doesn't have to be, you know, non-messy. I think if you look at Einstein's office, it's full of papers and things like that. But maybe the input is, I'm a researcher, or I have a lot of knowledge that I have to ingest. Whatever it is for you, like, be mindful of that environment. You know, I, there are certain things I do even at my own desk when I'm sitting at it that there are certain things I keep at that desk. There are certain ways that I arrange it because to me it, it reinforces what I want for my own performance and what I expect from myself. And even our interview today, right? Like, I have a pen, I have a notebook. That's because if I miss something that you're saying or you ask a longer question, I want to be able to do that. So it almost reinforces that you are someone who pays attention. You are someone who's going to make sure that you answer things thoroughly. It's a strange kind of subliminal thing that we do for ourselves, but environments are incredibly important.

I love that explanation and it just rings so true for me. I don't know if I'm more observant of it than others or if I'm just more susceptible to it, but I've always, not always, but for many years now I've made an effort to like, yeah, like you said, my office, the clothes I wear. Yeah. And I think the implications here is like where you spend a lot of time, it's worth investing, right? It's worth investing in your office. It's worth investing in your home. It's worth investing in things that are going to— you, you put this investment into them and then they reflect back onto you for many years, your own beliefs about who you are and who, what you're capable of.

I agree. I think that like your environment can really feed you and feed the right things. And you know, you, you mentioned clothing and I think clothing is important too. I think we've kind of gotten away from that. It's kind of, you know, oh, we should all wear sweats or whatever it is all the time. There's this whole debate on, you know, wearing sweats on the plane or things like that. But I do think that if you go and you, you know, kind of walk around, you know, is it— is your appearance really reflecting how you feel about yourself or is it not? And I think that those are good questions to ask ourselves sometimes, even though they seem traditional or, you know, kind of old school. I think it matters.

Yeah. I want to shift now and talk about getting yourself into activities and mindsets where you're at your best. You have a great line from a podcast I was, I was listening to. It was the Farnam Street Podcast. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but you said, when we're at our best, we're not slogging through. And you were discussing how you can't always rely on discipline as a way of getting things done or doing great work. So how can we set ourselves up so that we're not just having to slog through our work every day?

Yeah, I think that discipline, although it's kind of touted because it's tough, right? It makes us feel tough. Like, I'm going to be disciplined. I'm going to go to my workout this morning. Yeah, but the people who are most religious about those workouts are people who actually love fitness or like the benefits of what it offers. So I always think about discipline as our backup. Right? Like, or it's something that we're gonna use to start a new pattern. Sometimes it's where we have to push ourselves. And if success is really, think about it, success is a game of energy. And so if that's true, the people who are obsessed, they have endless energy toward that thing. I mean, whether you are a scientist looking at slides all day and you're determined to find the cure for cancer, or you are an athlete who is just obsessed with being the best, you know, wide receiver that's going to be in the NFL and you're gonna practice that over and over and over again. That person is going to be more successful, go further, not tire, have more energy than the person who feels like, I'm going to be disciplined, so I'm gonna go and run routes every day and I'm gonna force myself to do it, right? I'm gonna have that discipline and force myself. So I think about what taps into our energy. And a lot of times the work that I do with people is to really, that helps to create greater success even in very successful people is I ask them, Okay, let's, let's look at kind of what you're, what you're doing in your everyday work. What are the things that really give you energy? What are you great at? What do you love to do? And you'll find some people who are like, M&A is my thing. Like, I love it. I love doing deals. I love the whole thing. And M&A compounds value in your company. I mean, it's incredible. So what are the things that they don't like doing? Maybe they don't like, I don't know, managing certain people or departments or teams. So what I want to do, I mean, honestly, often is just kind of pull them into areas that they are exceptional at, that they have energy around, that they love to do, and then look at all the things that drain them and either strategically place them in, in kind of areas where they can have that energy drain without a penalty or to kind of hire for those or to find ways of getting those done. And it is amazing how when you start pulling people into what they love to do and what they're great at and they find energy in, how much further it pushes the company or their career forward. So that's why when, you know, I don't want people to slog around. Like, I think that we sometimes get the notion that work has to feel bad. And, you know, I think it does early on if we're candid, right? Like, there's a lot of stuff you gotta get through to get to where you can be in the fortunate position position of just doing things that you're exceptional at, or even being exceptional at something that's high value.

Yeah.

But once you get to that point, there is no reason that as the CEO of your own company that— I mean, sometimes you're gonna have to do stuff that you hate, and that's true, but that you have to have 70% of your day be things that you're not good at, you don't like, that drain energy, that make you resent that your company or your job So I'm a big fan of pulling away from the sexy concept of discipline and as a primary lever and almost making it a backup lever and finding ways in which you can connect to the things that drive value and are important to you in ways that you feel energized by, because your energy is gonna drive everything else. And it actually, it's gonna make you a better leader and, you know, more exciting to work with and for and more inspiring.

Yeah. In my world, which is kind of, you know, mostly small to medium-sized businesses, there's definitely this element that as the, as I talk with folks, the idea of pushing work off onto other people that you don't like doing almost has a moral component, I think, in a lot of people's minds of like, well, that seems kind of rude, or, you know, What am I, lazy? I feel like I should be doing this. Or the other side of it you hear sometimes is like, well, no one can do it as good as me and I need to keep this on my plate. So, you know, there's like this Puritan work ethic tied in with it here in America. So it is a very difficult thing if you're not used to that motion of taking things you don't like doing and literally having other people do those things.

Yeah, I think about it in a couple of ways, though, and you hit on such a brilliant point, which is I think that sometimes we are so used to rolling up our sleeves and getting our hands dirty in doing all the grunt work, that finally when we get to the point where that's not our highest value, we still want to fall back into that. So that's one thing, because I think that's a ceiling for people. You know, if you feel like you have to be the one doing everything, you're going to cap your potential really fast. But I think that the second thing to think about is when people think, oh, it's lazy or it's bad ethic or it's not good to push this on other people, is that somebody loves having the job of the things that you hate. I mean, find that person that really enjoys it. You know, like, I have someone who helps me with the newsletter who does all the graphics and the setups. And, you know, this person is obsessed with typesetting. It is not my strength. I am probably not the person who loves editing or is even particularly good at it. But they are amazing at it and they love it. And so I want people who love the jobs that maybe are challenging for me or that I'm not great at. And if they can make a living doing something they love, I think that's a service to everyone.

Yeah, I think it's a great way to put that. This idea, you know, a lot of the folks you work with are extremely hard drivers, right? And whether they're relying on discipline or relying on just doing things they love doing, they have this strong urge to do things and get things done. I relate to that. In listening to several of your podcasts, it's clear that this is not something that's just going to go away. Like you were talking about like an 80-year-old business owner who just is still getting after it, still wanting to win and beat their competitors and grow the business. So I'm curious to sort of hear you reflect on, is that necessarily a good thing? Is it a problem for life satisfaction that I'm probably always going to have this strong desire to get things done and to build things and grow things? Am I going to ever be able to relax or is that not a problem? I just— there's something here that I'm a little interested in.

Yeah. Do you want the good news or the bad news? So I do think that, you know, these are people who have a drive that probably isn't going to go away because it really isn't about— it isn't about the money. It isn't really about the resources. It's about a lot of times, like you mentioned, that kind of 80-year-old guy, like it's about creation. It's about being able to play the game that they love to play. And can it be a problem? Yeah, certainly it can be a problem. If it's not managed well, I think the people that I see who manage it well see this as one component of many components of who they are. You know, like that, you know, this business isn't their— the only thing that they are. They are a great businessman or businesswoman, and they also have, like, you know, a desire to be a good spouse, and they have a desire to, you know, be a good parent, or they have a desire to, you know, kind of have other things that— philanthropy or other things that they do or causes that they care about. And it actually— what's so fascinating to me about it is that by being more than one thing, even though they do put most of their energy into their work, it does build resilience. Because if business is all that you are and then you have a problem with your business, you will find that those, those are the people who will be most fragile. Like, those are the people who, when the business goes down, they're personally devastated and they're unable to recover as well as the people who, you know, are going to take a hard hit sometimes when business goes down in unpredictable environments, but because they also have all of these other things that they are, and they're attached to, to some extent, even though not as much as the business, it forms a resilience that allows them to actually bounce back much more quickly and not have as much of their personal identity be all business, even though a lot of it, you know, transparently probably is.

Yeah. So it sounds like the takeaway is channel some of that energy and drive into areas outside just the business world—personal relationships, other, you know, philanthropy, or just different areas and aspects of your life—so that you're—so that you build this resiliency, even if the drive may never quite go away.

It may never go away, and sometimes it even really shines in its second act, you know. Like, there are people who you build this great business, and now you have the resources to really, you know, create change in the world in causes that you about, or like, you know, being a part of building a Boys and Girls Club in your community, or, you know, you start to, to be able to channel that drive in various ways. And it's, I've certainly seen that happen as well. They have a large exit and, you know, sometimes people lose identity in those things, but you can also be able to take, you know, the amount that you have and see all of the possibilities and potentials outside of that because you already have something you care deeply about and now you can resource it in a way that you want to. And that can also be incredibly meaningful. So sometimes that drive can change the face and what it looks like, and that can be wonderful too as you age.

Today's episode is brought to you by Fixd. I'm really excited to introduce Fixd to my audience. By the way, that's f-y-x-e-d.com. Fixd is a brand new financing option for professional property managers who either need a little bit of extra funds for operational expenses, or have property owners with a kind of a cash crunch due to a large unexpected expense, and they need to be advanced some money, but you're not necessarily comfortable taking that out of your own funds. Fix is actually brought to you by the same company behind APM Help, which we use to handle our Trust Accounting, and they are fantastic. And because they're so familiar with property managers and their financing needs, they developed a brand new financing solution specifically for professional property managers who need flexible funding. And, you know, you can check out their website. It's FYXED.com. They have same-day funding available and they can fund up to $50,000 per property. For things like turns, HVAC repairs, roof repairs, anything like that. Or you can use the funds at your own company if you have like a sudden payroll crunch or just need operational funds because they're so familiar with property managers and how the finances of property management companies work from the trust accounting to your corporate books, whether you're on Buildium or Appfolio or Rentvine They understand all of those details, and so they can very, very quickly jump in, take a look at your books, and get you approved. It's a totally different process than working with a normal bank where you have to go through underwriting and this whole like 30 or 60-day process. So I really want to encourage my audience to check out Fix. I think it's a really innovative new solution. We're planning to try this out at my company in the future and just get a feel for what it's like, because I can totally see how this would be helpful in a couple different situations that we've run into in the past, whether that was taking advantage of an opportunity that came our way or extending capital to a property owner who just had a large unexpected expense. So I want to say thanks to Fix for sponsoring today's episode. You can check out more of their details or book a consult. Go to fyxed.com. So I teased at the beginning this sort of tweet that I'd printed out that I refer back to during my, during my annual planning. And it has to do with the idea of cultivating a clear and compelling vision of one's future self. And you talk in the tweet about, you know, really get specific, like where are you going to live and what are you going to do every day and what, you know, where are you waking up. And you talked a lot in this tweet thread about just, you got to be super clear and have this awesome vision of your future self and then lean and draw on that as a way to help get you going in that direction. So tell, tell us why that's so valuable, like what's, what's going on there psychologically.

So psychologically, what I'm trying to do is a few things. One is that I want people to do this exercise personally and not— I don't want them to, to kind of do this with a number of people who are going to just reinforce you and be like, yeah, that sounds great, man. Or, you know what, because then you're getting reinforced for things you haven't done yet. And, you know, it is great to have that vision, but it isn't really there yet. But I want the person to really see very, very clearly a future that they are able to then kind of snapshot and say, all right, how do I reverse engineer to get to this place? What does it really take? And, you know, if people can create an incredibly clear vision for whether it is a year down the line, 3 years down the line, 5 years down the line, and even if that vision is, hey, I want to own X amount of properties, and then you say, okay, well, I have this vision where I own X amount of properties, this is the amount of revenue I have. And I mean, you get really, really specific. What you can do with that then is use it as a blueprint to, okay, Usually people who are ambitious, who have been builders of some sort, builders of their career, builders of businesses, can look at something and go, well, what does it take to get there? And you can, you can determine and find those paths and you can map it out in a very actionable way that actually gets you to that place that your mind has already constructed as being your ideal for that next year or 3 years or 5 years. And so what you're trying to do is to give yourself the ability to form a blueprint that will actually get you to a place that makes you satisfied with that end result, right? I mean, like, if that's your ideal and that's where you're driving to and you have expertise in that area, commercial real estate or what have you, you can find paths there. And so I'm trying to give people a tool that they can use to reverse engineer and actually have the future they want rather than how most people go about it, which is, oh, I'm just going to do a couple deals and like, hopefully I get here and, you know, they're, they're kind of very ad hoc about how they move ahead. Reactive. And when they— yeah, exactly. And then they see people who are in a certain place and they're like, oh man, I wonder how they got there. Well, they, they kind of had a vision or a goal that they wanted to get to. And it pushes you to think about your path differently and different— differently strategically. And so I want people to be as strategic as possible in kind of taking ownership of their future to to get exactly what it is they want. And everyone, whatever they want is gonna be different. And that's not certainly for me to judge, like, is that ambitious enough or is it good enough? But it's up to you. And I think that's really the beauty of it. I love that.

I, one of the things that I struggle with is, and I'm sure you've heard this story a thousand times, I set these great visions, I break 'em down and I start executing and I have pretty good success and eventually I get there and then I just reset the next vision and I don't even stop. I don't even pause. I mean, how can we get better about celebrating the wins and just taking a minute and actually basking in the feeling of actually getting something big done that you set out to do?

Usually when I speak with people, and maybe it's you, maybe it's not you, but like they feel like if they stop and celebrate it, that they're like, they're not done yet. So like they don't want to celebrate that. Like, this is— this isn't— I'm not done. What am I doing? Like taking a moment and celebrating this? Like, this is just— so it's okay to see it to me it's all right to see it as kind of mile markers on your way forward. But I also think that if you don't take a moment to kind of reinforce the good stuff, it all— it feels like you're never going to get to the good stuff. Yeah. So I do think it's useful. It's also useful for people around you to be— to kind of get them engaged in the journey because it's easy for others to say, oh, you know, this person just works all the time and then they're glossing over your markers too. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And so, you know, and then sometimes people say, well, you know, you don't realize like all this amazing stuff that I've actually done. But in truth, how will they ever realize it?

How would they know?

Yeah. If you don't like make it a deal. So it is important too for, especially if you, you know, you've talked about, you know, your kids to see that like, you know, dad's making wins and how is he winning? Why is he celebrating? And, you know, where is he going? And it gives you the opportunity to talk about that stuff too, both with your spouse and with other people, and it helps them to appreciate the work that you do as well as for you to appreciate it. But I think it's really important.

I love that. That's such a great— I never thought about like the impact on others. And I feel like the right people in your life are going to be thrilled to be able to go celebrate a win with you because they've seen you working toward it.

And yeah, it makes them a part of it because whether or not they always think of themselves that way, like your family is your team and they're all working toward the goals that you have together, you know, if you're, you know, building up a certain future or, you know, running toward a certain thing, everyone has a different role to play in that, but you're all on the same team. So kind of a win for the home team is a win. Yeah. And it gets them excited about what you do. It also sometimes gives them a little grace on the back end when you have to not be present or like do other things because they, they're a part of that journey. I think it's really easy sometimes for people in business to think they are protecting their families from the business. They don't include them as much on wins or, you know, challenges. And it's not that you have to include them with every challenge or every win, but that sometimes it is important to loop them in so that people are actually with you on that journey and, and are able to be a part of it.

I brought my 7-year-old to work a few weeks ago for Bring Your Kid to Work Day. She spent, she spent most of the day at the office with me. And when we got home that night, She was like, I'm exhausted, Daddy. I am so tired. I can't believe you go to work and do this every day. And then she turns to my wife and she goes, Mommy, we need to let Daddy rest every day. He's so tired from work. I was like, yeah, I'm bringing you to work more. This is great. It was so funny. But yeah, it was, it was one of those like letting the family in and helping them see a little bit more of what, you know, what's going on. I want to transition a little bit because a lot of folks listening have never had the opportunity to work with someone like you before. And I think maybe by now in, you know, 35 minutes in, they've gotten a little taste of what the impact could be of working with someone who specializes in mindset and performance of entrepreneurs and business owners and folks looking to move up. So I'd love to hear, hear you explain for folks kind of like, what is it actually like to work with with an executive coach or a business coach or a mindset coach? How, how should they, you know, find somebody like that? How often are you meeting with people? And just what— how— help them sort of have a way in of, of, hey, this sounds interesting, what, what it— what could it actually be like? Sure.

And you've mentioned a few things, and I think it's really important to like tease those out. And that is, you know, you have to first determine what you need. And I think for some people who are maybe earlier in the journey, they may need a business coach that helps them structure their business that helps them understand how to scale their business or hire in their business, that person is probably not me. So like sometimes when people come to me and they're like, you know, I really need to think about like how I structure my organization, like that's not my area. But there are people who do that brilliantly. And I think that there's a guy who wrote The Great CEO Within. I forget his name, but he is phenomenal at it. And I know, I know that I've like shoved people his direction because he does understand those things and he's great at that. Them. You, if you know exactly what you need and what your challenge is, especially— you may not know exactly what the challenges are, but the needs that you have— then you find someone who just does that all day long and that's their area of expertise. A way to find them, probably the best way, is through a net— your network. You know, there's a lot of people on around that are going to claim to be good at a particular thing who probably were not so great, or maybe 20 and, you know, they're going to say they, they can help you with understanding that who haven't seen the scope. One thing I like about my work is that I've probably seen people who are at all like, you know, you have people who are sitting on top of multibillion-dollar companies, but you also have people who are, you know, I've seen people at Series A and, you know, early on in their, their business. So you can kind of look at and pattern match and say, okay, well, what's this person doing that will kind of help get them to that next stage? How are they thinking about things? My background is I'm a doctor of psychology as well. So I think that I really, I'm not a therapist and if people need therapy, I refer them out, but like I use it really to get people who are already healthy to kind of overcoming these blockers that really keep them stuck in areas that they don't kind of realize they need. So a lot of times my, my clients are people who say, look, I know like objectively I'm I'm pretty successful, but I know I can do more than where I am right now. I just don't know why I'm not. I don't know why I'm not doing more, or I'm not— my business isn't bigger, or that like it isn't growing. Like, I know all the things to do. I, I have no idea why. Like, I, I know I have more in the tank. I know I can be bigger than I am, and I don't know why I'm not there. So much like you'd hire someone to solve like, you know, a problem in your coding, if you, you know, you'd hire an engineer, you would hire someone like me to sometimes work that through or to even actualize some of that potential that, you know, you have in the tank. So probably your networks are the best way to find it. If you're part of a YPO group, sometimes people pass around names. If you're in like Tiger 21, you probably have people who will pass around some names. So the majority of my clients now really come from personal referrals. And I always know that two things that are great. One is that I know I'm going to get a great client if I've already had a great client who's referred you. And I think that that's probably one of the better ways to find someone who's actually like, someone can attest, this person really helped me or helps me. And I think that's the best way to find someone who does that. But the, all the other questions like the cadence and what it's like to work with me, you know, I meet with clients initially once a week, we meet for an hour. There's sometimes there's challenge and sometimes there's not. I expect that people are the experts in their business. I am not, but I do hear when there there is kind of cognitive things that are not quite right, when they're limiting themselves, when there is a challenge point that could be making their life harder versus easier, when I see they're not operating in certain areas where they could be, I really want them to be actively, like, we work on things every single week. So usually, not always, but usually every week there is something that they're trying in vivo that what they're working on for the next week that we meet. And then, you know, in time we'll kind of reduce our meetings to every 2 weeks. Sometimes people wanna meet every month. And then I have some people that like, you know, will not meet for a long time and then they have a big thing upcoming or they've changed companies or what have you. And they'll reengage after 3 years or 4 years. We'll meet for a few months and, you know, so it's, it, it really should and can be whatever you want. For myself, I don't even lock people into contracts. I say if you don't get value, then we won't, we won't work together. That's cool. I'm not going to make anyone sign anything. So we'll go— my average client is anywhere, I would say, 3 to 6 months, but I have some clients I've had for years. Yeah.

Well, I just want to give an encouragement to anyone listening. If you haven't worked with an executive coach or, or somebody like Dr. Erner, it has a huge impact. And I've worked with a couple different folks over the years on my journey, and every single one I can look back and I still quote like specific things that they said. I think back to like moments that just changed the way I think about myself or what I'm, what I'm up to. Entrepreneurs, getting back to what we were talking about earlier, they're, they're just like get it done type people. And so they're like, I'm going to figure this out, right? That's how you got where you are. But there at a certain point, there's just value in bringing in an outside observer to help find your blind spots, to help level you up, to help talk you through? I mean, you got to understand, these are folks who have worked with potentially hundreds and hundreds of other people along the journey that you're now on. Wouldn't you think they would have something valuable to add? I just— to me, it makes sense, and partially that's because I've gone through it, but I definitely sense that for some people it feels like either I don't want to say like cheating, but like part they identify with being just the person who figures everything out on their own. And then there's another subset of people for whom it's just like they just don't believe it. They're just like, no, that can't, that can't really help me. What do they know about property management? Sometimes I hear that from people when I'm talking about these folks that I work with. They're like, but did they do property management? I'm like, no, that would actually be worse. Why would you know?

They don't work in prop. Like, that's why I say, you know, hey, you are, you are the person who knows your business best. I think that when people do say that, a few things. One is that they don't recognize how many of the people they admire have worked with people like me. Yeah. And so that's always fascinating to me is that, you know, a lot of folks that you say, wow, you know, like this person's amazing and they do X, Y, and Z, they don't really see the folks who operate behind the curtain who do sometimes assist those great wins. And that's a really cool place to be. Also, you look objectively at places like, you know, hedge funds who do hire people for specific departments and further, you know, at one point I was talking to one who wanted to hire just someone to work with their quants. And if you can move the needle 2%, 5%, that is millions of dollars on the bottom line for them. And so there are really there's a lot of big payoffs for those. You know, we often quote like get 1% better every day. You know, if you got 1% better every month, you would make a dramatic impact on your business. And the truth of it is, even if that person just provides you the opportunity to have a moment to reflect, to be able to examine yourself and to be able to see it, I find a lot of times when I do like 360s, for example, where I do these qualitative ones, right, interview for an hour, you know, all these people in their circle that oftentimes I'll ask them, okay, tell me what I'm going to find, that they know probably 70% of what I'm going to find. And yet they haven't made the adjustments. And so I'll say, you know, you know, these things are holding the company back or, you know, you're not communicating in a certain way that's beneficial or whatever it is. So tell me a little bit about what has been preventing that shift. If you, you know, you say that it would help your company. And so you can really dive into some of those things too. But personally, I think it's really fun for a lot of high-performing people to be challenged. And people don't challenge them. They have a company that's based on doing, action, results, and not a lot of people challenge them personally to make the company even greater than it is. Very interesting.

So I, what I make up about people who are listening is they may come away up to this point thinking, that we need to just be totally rational and totally calm at all times and just, just exist in this Zen-like state where we've, you know, totally mastered our mindset and everything. And you said something on one of the podcasts I was listening to that was kind of directly contradicted that. You basically said, hey, you may have some strong emotions, you may have some rage, you may have some desire, you have this chip on your shoulder, we're going to prove it to somebody, and that gets you fired up. Up. And rather than kind of tamper those down and temper those, you're like, hey, let's channel that, let's leverage that. And I'd love to hear you expound on that a little bit because I love this idea that's kind of counterintuitive.

Yeah, I think that a lot of people have bought into— and I don't disagree with a lot of principles of Stoicism, but Stoicism gets a— I think that that is exactly what you described. People think I have to be even all the time. And I'll even see it, you know, people— there's one person that I I have done some work with, I think that his employees would say, I don't know if he's happy. I don't know if he's sad. I don't know if he's angry. Like, he is the same guy all the time. He is even. And, you know, I think that it's a, it's something that sometimes people are incredibly skilled at. And I think it's a, there's a highly controlled nature to that. But one of the things I do know is that suppressing anger, suppressing disappointment, suppressing excitement is also suppressing energy. And you're actually spending energy pushing down your own emotions instead of leveraging that energy for productive push forward. And I don't know about you, but for me, and when I even— you watch a movie or you go into a company and the leaders that tend to get people amped up and that get them excited to be there and inspire them are passionate people. They show their emotions. They use their emotions in a very sometimes intentional way. So like if the company is, you know, really has an opportunity, they get excited about it. They show that excitement. There's that Microsoft, really funny Microsoft, I think it is a video where you have Steve Ballmer and others.

My mind instantly went there when you said that. Exactly. The Windows 95 launch or whatever it was.

Yes. And you know what though? You look at those guys and you're like, you know what? They're excited about what they're doing. They're kind of like, dorky and dancing and whatever it is. But like, if they just would have stood like a statue, you would never see that video shared. People in the audience wouldn't have been half as engaged. And so it's okay. We even see Elon Musk, right? Like, he'll dance at his things and, you know, it's all dorky and whatever. But like, we, we have a love of energy when we see it. And when people are passionate because they disagree or they're upset about something your anger doesn't have to mean that you're going to be persecutory and abusive to others, but it can be showing disappointment, expectation, you know, and really laying a line where people understand like, this is how you please this particular person. This is what they expect. And these are the things that make them super happy. And by nature, you probably even notice it with your child, but by nature, people want to like do the things thing that will make you happier or make the business celebrate or get the great call out or be praised. And they will avoid the thing that like, oh man, you know, you know Peter, he hates it when we miss deadlines, you know, like, so they're going to push it and they're going to stay up a little later to make sure they don't, you know, kind of miss that deadline. Whereas sometimes if you're flat, they're like, well, you know, Peter doesn't care if we miss deadlines, you know, like, he's just gonna be fine the next day, like, that guy doesn't care.

That's so funny. I mentioned earlier that like I specific memories of things, of things that coaches have said to me. And I had a coach, a mindset coach, a business coach one time on our very first phone call. He goes, at the end of the call, he goes, you know, you have a really flat affect. That's what he said to me, direct quote. I was like, hmm, I never really thought about that, but it made an impact on me. And I just, exactly like you were saying, I've cranked things up like 10 or 15% deliberately since he mentioned that, because I, as I thought about it, I decided that he was right. And then it wouldn't hurt anything if I was a little bit more outgoing, a little bit more excited, a little bit more emotional at certain key points. And it does— people, people respond well to it.

I've noticed that. Yeah, I talked about— there was a newsletter edition where I talked about mastering the dial and how sometimes you do want to like turn that dial up a couple notches, and that sometimes you want to turn it down, right? Like, it depends. But there, I think that there's a lot of ways in which we can leverage who we are and And, you know, if you experience emotions, why not leverage that too to make performance better? Not just with you, but with your team, because that stuff is so energizing. Like when you're really stoked about something, if you're just sitting in your office alone stoked about it and you never like show that energy to your team, everything feels the same every day. And so like you do want to have like this place where people feel like like, you know, man, we're winning, or we're on this kind of winning team and things are going well. And if you even watch any kind of sports team and, you know, they're in the Super Bowl or they're competing in any particular game, you'll see that like people are amping each other up. They're like— and when people fail, they are— they have their head in their hands and they're upset about it and they care. I think it's been kind of very— it's very cool to not care about anything, but the people who do great things in their career and in their business, like they deeply care and they often show that care too, sometimes dysfunctionally, but they do show that care strongly because they, they care about it. Love that.

Well, we're getting to the end of the show. We're kind of winding down and I wanted to ask you about how do high performers wind down at the end of their day? And it used to be that that, you know, it was just assumed, hey, you know, grab a glass of wine at the end of the day, relax. And alcohol is kind of falling out of favor in certain circles right now. And personally, for me, it never really was a great solution because it would just make me super sleepy. And I knew that it was not great for your sleep hygiene and everything. So what are you seeing people do these days, or what do even you recommend for, hey, I had an intense day at work, you know, I was making deals, I was signing clients, I was solving problems, and now I've come home I've had my time with the wife and kids, maybe. How can I sort of regulate myself, chill for the next day? What is effective here?

So I think about instead of— I think relaxing is sometimes very off-putting to people who are very ambitious. They're like, oh, I never relax, right? I'm always thinking about the business or whatever it is. But I think about these as release valves. So I want people to always think about it as like, you know, you're a high-stress machine and like, just like you have tires that are overinflated, You just want to just let, just let's just say how you would have a little bit of release. And for some people, you know, one of the things I've noticed is that, and you hear more talk about it even on social, or people are like going for a walk. I have a lot of clients who like after dinner, they'll go for a walk with their spouse or, you know, just take a walk around the block with their dog, you know, just finding a way to get outside and do something that is completely disconnected from their phone, from their computer, from the demands of their life. And just be—

the temptation to put on a business podcast, though, when you're on a walk, it's so, it's so strong, right? It is.

And I think, you know, I do hear many talk about how they're putting that on, on their way to work and sometimes like even on the way home to try to unwind a little bit. But you want to really disconnect and find a way to engage in the world outside. And if you can just focus on your dog or a walk or your wife or the environment or even a city block and you're going for a little stroll and you don't have like, you're not looking at your phone, you're not doing anything that you're going to get because invariably you're going to get notifications, you're going to get sucked back in, you're going to like, so you want to prevent that. So if there's any advice that I give people, I don't tell them how to unwind, but I will say that it's if you're going to actually have a release valve, you can't be connected to the stressor, right? Like that's not a way to unwind. So, you know, and it feels awkward for people at first. So sometimes I'm like, look, I know that you hate leaving your phone at home. What about if you just do one block without it? Like, just, just one and see what happens, right? And then they start to kind of get used to it. And I think it becomes a way in which, you know, I have some clients who will do some manual labor and really love it. Like, they'll go outside and say, you know what, I'm not like the manual labor guy, but I really love like just spending time doing stuff in my yard.

Hard, or I'm gonna power my deck, cutting the grass. Yeah.

Like stuff like that. And you know, it's fantastic. It's, it's good stuff. And I think that's really, we, we think it has to be complicated, but as long as you're disconnected from the stressor, you spend some time doing something else. It can be a real unlock for people.

Love that. I think this is a great place to wrap. Dr. Gerner, for folks who want to follow along and got an awesome Substack, so let's make sure we mention that. Where can people get, get some more or get connected with you?

So every week I write kind of learnings for folks at Ultra Successful. It's a newsletter on substack.com. And then, you know, if you wanna follow me on Twitter, I'm @DrGurner and it's just Dr., not the full doctor. And, you know, feel free to follow along. I do respond to DMs as long as they're polite and I'm always happy to chat with folks.

Fantastic. Well, thanks again, Dr. Gurner. This was great. Thanks. If you like the show and want to get connected to the community, you can follow me on Twitter @PSLohmann and subscribe to my email newsletter on my website, peterlohmann.com. I try to share as much valuable property management content as I can on a regular basis. Thanks again for listening and have a great week.