Staying Out of Legal Headaches With Margeaux Thomas

Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Phil Risher. And on today's episode, we have Margo Thomas with us. Margo helps business owners stay in compliance and get out of legal issues. And she specialized actually in business law, specifically partnerships, contracts, and some part of scaling businesses through different things. And I actually got in contact with Margo through one of my friends who was recently on the podcast named Otto. And I was asking him, anyone else that could add value to our audience? And he's like, yeah, you got to reach out to Margo. She definitely can. And so, Margo, thanks so much for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, Phil.

Yeah, absolutely. So I was doing my homework and a little research on you, and from. From what I saw, I guess, were your parents entrepreneurs growing up, or were they in. In business in some aspect?

Yes, they were real estate. They had a real estate investment company. So I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, so they started buying properties there and renting them out. And that was the beginning, I guess, the roots of entrepreneurship in my family.

Oh, wow. And so in. In real estate, there's a lot of legal stuff going on. Were you always in, like, business law and stuff, or was. Have you done other things before that, or how did you get into business law?

I was always in business law. I actually went to law school and thought that I wanted to do criminal law. I really loved Law and Order, and it was just fascinating to me. And I even worked at a prosecutor's office while I was in law school, and I really loved it. But when I got out, when I was leaving law school, you know, a lot of your career trajectory is based upon the opportunities that present themselves. And I got a offer to join a really great firm doing business law. And it was, you know, an offer I couldn't refuse. So that's where I started, and I loved it. You know, it's something that is really interesting. You know, it's not. It changes. There's so many new issues, and it's evolving. So, you know, it kind of keeps you on your toes.

Yeah, for sure. And so now you work with companies that are looking to either like, form business partnerships or, unfortunately, if business partnerships go south, maybe helping them untangle the mess that's happened. Is that right?

Yes. We work with business owners through the life cycle of their business from the first day when they're startup to leasing property, bringing in independent contractors or employees trying to scale their business. And if they're. If they want to sell it at some point, we can help them with that or if there's any type of dispute with their clients or vendors or business partners, we work with them to resolve those as well.

Okay, so when someone's going to be forming a business partnership, whether that's they're starting out or maybe they're thinking about bringing on a partner, what are some of the best practices or things that they should be sure to do?

I think businesses are very much like marriage. So I make a lot of comparisons between marriage and business. But it is like, especially if you're gonna have a business partner, you know, there's a lot of communication that goes on there. There's a lot of goal alignment of how you're gonna scale the business. And there are a lot of decisions that have to be made, major decisions that you need to be on the same page about. So I tell people that I can help you with the business prenup, so to speak. But I think that premarital counseling in the business context is also very important because a lot of the issues, most of the people that we encounter, it's not a contract issue. When it's business partners. It is more of a communication issue. They have different goals or ideas of how the business should be run. They think they're doing more than the other business partner. They feel some resentment or they feel alone or, you know, there's similar emotions that you go through going through a regular divorce. So I think it is a very good idea either for the business partners to sit down and have some very difficult conversations about, you know, what they envision as far as how this business will be run, who is going to be sitting at the desk, who's going to be answering the phone, who's going to be handling the books. Like, a lot of people just, you know, say, we got a great idea, let's go. You know, they don't want to talk about the details. And I think the devil is really in the details, similar to in a marriage. You know, a lot of marriages break up because of money. A lot of businesses break up because of money. Money. So that is one of the issues. You know, people have different risk tolerance when it comes to money. That is a fundamental issue that can make or break a business partnership. So that's something that needs to be discussed on the front end.

So, yeah, I agree. We. We have a company that we work with. They're an H Vac contractor, and the owner is a very heavy technician side of things. He knows H Vac inside and out, and he's thinking about bringing on a partner to run sales. It's one of his lifelong friends who's really good at sales and, like, run the operations of the business and basically, like, grow the business sales revenue. And you mentioned about premarital counseling for business. Is that like, maybe like reading a book together and like, going through something, or is there actual things that you would recommend to people before they do that?

Go online and pull questions that are a good starting point, or, you know, I see some people go. They have business coaches that specialize in that, that will talk to the partners and work through some of those issues or try to identify what those issues will be now before you're in the partnership and then discover that you're not on the same page. So there's different ways to explore that. But I think a lot of people don't give any thought to having those conversations, and they're more focused on running with the idea and getting it started. Especially when you're dealing with a friend, a lifelong friend, or a spouse or a child or, you know, somebody that you've known, you know, so it's not like going into business with a stranger where you would, you know, be asking those questions. You feel like you know this person. But knowing somebody in a friendship capacity or even a family member is not the same as working with them. That's a totally different relationship. And I think that people kind of. They don't give enough thought to how that will change the dynamic of their relationship. And if they don't, the sad part is, you know, if their business breaks up, that's usually going to affect that lifelong friendship, which is. Is really unfortunate.

Yeah. We had another scenario of a business. Kind of what you were saying was it was a husband and wife, 50, 50 partners. And the. The man was the one who was more running point. The woman did more the office stuff on the back end. And 30 years into the business, they get divorced. Well, then he had to buy her out and go through this whole thing. And they also had real estate involved because they own the building. And 30 years ago, I'm sure they didn't think about this happening. But to your point, it's like, you got to set it up on the front end the right way, hopefully. So that way, when it comes to that point, it's all pretty clean and cut and dry, I would imagine.

Yes, absolutely.

Okay, so let's say someone has a partner and they're like, I don't know if this is going to work out. Are there any common signs of like, hey, you got to cut bait on this and just get out While you can, or things that they could do now. Like, I know, like in, in family law, you kind of have to have a year separation or something and all this kind of stuff. Is there any, like, prerequisites to like, breaking up a partnership of any sort?

That's a great question. By the time people get to my door, yeah. It is beyond repair. Okay, so there have been red flags, there have been minefields. I mean, it is just, you know, there is no reconciliation at this point and it's too late, which, you know, is really unfortunate. So I think that there are red flags all along that people either ignore or they don't address. And then, you know, the situation exacerbates and it becomes, you know, its own animal. And that is a really difficult situation to be in because a lot of the people that we see, the business partner is doing some, you know, there's some revenge or vengeance type of thing going on. They're taking down the website, they're trying to steal the clients, they're, you know, stealing the ip. I mean, there's all types of things that people can think of to do to hurt, you know, the business that they're leaving or no longer a part of. And, you know, you definitely want to. To preempt that and deal with those underlying issues before you get to a situation where you're dealing with. I mean, I've had a lot of people who come to me and we have to file emergency motions to step in because somebody is literally set up shop across the street and has emailed all of the clients and said, you know, come with me. So, you know, that is not where you want to be because that is going to cost more time and money and stress because there's an urgent situation now because you, you know, have let this linger.

Yeah. So what can someone do if that happens to them? Like what. What in law can they do like that person or try to take them to court for doing something like that.

Yeah, they have a process where you can go in and get a ex parte hearing, which is basically, you know, in some circumstances you don't even have to provide notice to the other side. And the court will enter an order to stop whatever the damage is immediately, and then they'll schedule another hearing where everybody is notified to, you know, go through the evidence and, and see whether the initial ruling was accurate. But I mean, to, to go into the court and get them to issue an order on the same day, it's got to be something pretty egregious. And we have a lot of those situations because they things have just really hit the fan, so to speak. And there are people doing things that are going to irreparably harm the business and you know, that can be avoided by trying to reach a resolution sooner then I certainly suggest that.

Yeah. So let's talk about this a little bit because we're talking right now, you know, about buying or partnering and that kind of stuff. But you also do like contract disputes, landlord tenant issues, but all these issues you could, yeah, I'm going to take you to court, I'm going to sue you. And from what I know about you, you're more on the mediation side of things, which is like, let's come to an agreement together, not necessarily go to courts and go through drawn out hearings and that kind of stuff. Can you talk to me a little bit about how you approach that and how you would approach that with someone who's like very upset and wants to sue this person like crazy?

So there's a little bit of a misconception that if you're going the mediation route that you're not going to sue someone. So mediation can occur before a lawsuit is filed, during the pendency of a lawsuit, after a trial, while things are on appeal, there are mediation options throughout the life cycle of a case. And just because we are proponents of mediation does not mean that we will not help you file a lawsuit against somebody that is, you know, they owe you money, you know they've taken something that's yours or your business. Like we file a lot of lawsuits, we defend a lot of lawsuits, but at whatever stage you are in the process of litigation, I think it's something to consider. Because if there is a way for you to resolve this while the lawsuit is pending without waiting a year or two for the court to decide it, without paying attorneys fees for two years, which is taking you away your time and energy away from the business that you built then. I think that's certainly something to consider. And a lot of the mediators that we work with have very high resolution rates and they deal with very complex issues. So I think that there is an advantage to reaching resolutions where people have buy in, but I don't think it should be viewed as some type of. I don't think it's an alternative to lead to litigation, so to speak, but it's a way to resolve things a little bit quicker that has buy in by the parties and usually a lot cheaper.

Yeah, okay, so let's say someone is an H VAC contractor, they sign a contract, an agreement to replace your H Vac system, it's $20,000. And then the person says, well, I'm not paying you because you did X, Y and Z, then they could sue that person, obviously, or something could come to some issue. What would the next steps be? Mediation, litigation. How does that work and how. What would be the expedited way to do that?

Well, I think that if there is a way to talk to the consumer, whoever bought the product, and reach a resolution, that's certainly preferable. The number one issue that a lot of our clients face is that they don't have very good contracts. And the number one issue in the contract is it doesn't provide for recovery of your attorney's Feees. In Virginia, D.C. and Maryland, where we work, if you do not have a clause in your contract that says that you will get your attorney's fees on top of whatever you're owed, you're likely not going to get them. So if you do your business on a handshake and then somebody doesn't pay you and you're owed $20,000 and you go to court and you pay an attorney $10,000 to get you the 20,000, you've only recouped 10. And that is a huge consideration, a conversation that we have with people every single day. Because, you know, getting $30,000, your 10 in attorney's fees on top of the 20 versus just walking away with 10 is a huge difference. And that is one paragraph in a contract that will make that difference. So, you know, we. That's the first thing we look at. What does the contract say?

Yeah.

And does it have an attorney's fees clause? Because you know it's going to be a lot more advantageous for you to try to work out something out of court if you don't have a contract. If you don't have a contract that has an attorney's fees clause.

Yeah. So inside of contracts, obviously, that's a really good one. Is there any, like, other. I've heard also, you want to kind of. There's like three parts to a contract of some sort, but. Or something. But you want to change, exchange money or something to, like, solidify the contract or are there certain things that someone should have or do when they're getting a contract that's going to, like, solidify it to the ports.

You're referring to consideration. So there's got to be offer acceptance and some exchange of consideration. But I give this course, it's called the five most litigated terms in contracts. So from a litigation perspective, it is a lot of the same terms that are in a contract that cause people to be in court in, you know, in a dispute. A lot of those have to do with payment terms. When you're going to get paid, how much you're going to get paid. A lot of people is very vague or ambiguous about exactly what Is it hourly? Is it a retainer? Like, you know, is it. There are lots of different ways people can get paid for your time, for your services. Is it a flat fee? People have contracts that are not very clear on what their payment is contingent on, and they merge these terms together. And then there's an ambiguity in your contract and you have to go to court and explain what this contract is supposed to mean. So that's one of them. Indemnification is one of them. If one of the people, for example, gets sued related to something in the contract, who is responsible for that? Arbitration is another one. Routinely, a lot of people put arbitration clauses in their contracts without really understanding what arbitration is or the cost of arbitration or how that would work. They hope they'll never. They're never in a dispute and they will never have to find out what an arbitration clause is. Yeah, what is basically means that you are bound to go to this private organization to resolve your dispute. But the difference between arbitration and court is one, you have to pay for it. You have to pay for the administration of it. You got to pay for the quote, unquote, jud going to decide your case. And there are very few appeal rights. So if the judge gets it wrong, you're kind of screwed. So, you know, if you go to court, you know, it, the, your tax dollars are paying that judge. You're not paying an hourly rate for the judge to decide your case. So it is significantly less expensive. So in arbitration, you're paying your attorneys and you're paying the administration who, you know, hires the quote, unquote judge or arbitrator, and you're paying the arbitrator. So it's way more expensive. And like I said, there's not appeal rights in court. If you lose, you can just appeal it to the next court, and then in most cases, you can get a whole new trial. So. And we've had cases where we've lost at the lower court, appealed it, and won, you know, at a higher court, like, you know, judges get it wrong. So I don't think that arbitration is the best option in most small business cases. It is a very beneficial option. If you are, let's say, Amazon and you're employing a Lot of independent contractors that's probably, you know, they're, they're very pro arbitration for a lot of reasons. But for the small business owner, it's going to. It's going to cost you a lot more money to go to arbitration to get what you're owed than it is in most cases than to go to court. So. And arbitration clauses are prone to be litigated. So if you have an arbitration clause, people file in court anyway. And then there's this whole back, you know, motions and hearings about whether the arbitration clause is valid or whether it's too vague or whether it was conspicuous or whether it's, you know, equitable. So then you're in this argument about where the lawsuit should be, which is, in my opinion, you know, a lot of money that could be avoided.

Yeah.

So I'm not a big fan of them. And a lot of contracts have those in them. So, you know, that's another thing that is in the most litigated clauses.

Okay, what about subcontractor agreements? Because you're kind of talking about the Amazon thing. And it got me thinking. A lot of the contractors that we work with, they'll have subs that do certain things are there. I'm sure there's agreements and issues with, you know, paying subs and this person's suing this person. Are there things that you've seen that are like, hey, when you're working with subcontractors, well, first you probably got to have agreement for sure. But then are there other things that they should be thinking about when they're setting up these agreements or partnerships?

The biggest issue I would say that we see is people change the terms of the agreement. So even if you have an agreement, then change it and you have some handshake side deal. And most agreements say changes need to be in writing and signed by both parties. That is a very common clause. But people are like, oh, well, it's just Joe, and I know Joe and I've worked with Joe, so we'll just agree that you do this extra work or we'll change the scope or we'll change the payment, or we'll add this or subtract that. None of that gets memorialized. You know, they sign the original agreement, but they did not make any written changes to it. And then there inevitably is a dispute with what the agreement was that Joe was going to do on the side. And it's just so unfortunate because you, you have a contract, but now you have all this other stuff that's not.

In there that's right.

That is a very common scenario.

Yeah. I think you build so much trust with these people that you're just like, you know, it's Joe, you know, kind of even like your business partner. It's like, you're like, best we're in it, and then it's like it dissolves, man. I would never think that this could happen, but it happens.

Cost is so minimal to like, add an addendum or add a paragraph or do a change order. I mean, most times a lot of our contracts, they have a change order form, like, attached to it that needs to be filled out, and people still don't do that. And they just, you know, shake hands and move forward and, you know, it works until it doesn't. You know, 90% of the time it may work out, but the 10% that it doesn't can, you know, cost you a substantial amount of money. Definitely.

So is this something businesses that have contracts, they could find someone like you and send you their contract and. Or, you know, set up a meeting and like, hey, could you review this contract and make sure that it's like, in compliance and tight, so that way I'm covered?

Yes. I mean, we have both situations. We have general contractors that are entering into subcontracts and bidding on jobs, and, you know, the volume of contracts that they go through with different parties is high. So, you know, we're dealing with them constantly on new agreements because we want to negotiate those agreements in their favor. But then you have other people who are more in the startup phase, and they have one sub or one independent contractor or one employee. And I think that in both scenarios, it's equally as important to have an agreement. A lot of our cases are what I call the napkin agreements, where people just, you know, they write it on a napkin.

I've been there. I've been there. I'm sure. I'm sure most business owners, I think a lot of business owners, they're the type of people that the rules don't apply to them. You know, they always break the stereotypes and they're just like rogue agents just doing their thing. And it's like. And you're like, hold on, let me reel you back in here, buddy. Like, let's get this cleaned up.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think people are under the impression that it's just like thousands of dollars and very long conversations, and this is just like, you know, it's going to be an impediment to whatever you're trying to do. But, you know, I just think that's A big mis perception of what it would take to get, you know, an addendum or an agreement or, you know, it is not. It is five times more expensive on the back end if there is.

Absolutely. So most businesses, they're either leasing or they own their real estate. But the landlord tenant thing, I feel like that's a hot one for a lot of the companies that we work with where they're leasing space. Maybe they're in warehouse space and it's rents are increasing like crazy. And maybe there's that back in napkin stuff or something's happening. What have you seen on that side? Or what can people say, like, hey, I want to make sure this is in my lease agreement or something that they should do to protect themselves from.

From that. So most of the people that we deal with, with commercial leases have not reviewed the lease. Commercial leases are not like residential leases where it's a few pages like a book and they just flip to the last page and sign because they're so excited about, you know, starting a new business and moving into a space. And, you know, there's so much, you know, enjoyment going into that that negotiating a lease is like. You can see that more people who have scaled their business are more likely to come to us with a lease and say, look, you know, we want to get the best possible terms. A lot of times startup businesses just believe that the lease is not negotiable, which is not true. You know, there are a lot of terms in there. Yes, leases are written in the landlord's favor, but there are some key terms in there that certainly can be negotiated. We negotiate leases all the time, and you lose all of the leverage after you sign the lease. I mean, now you're in. So, yeah. What are some of them want you to move in?

Yeah. What are some of those key ones that you would say, like a couple of terms.

So H Vac is one of them. Who is going to be responsible for that? What is the condition of the H Vac? Commercial H Vac is extremely expensive to replace if there's an issue with it. And a lot of people take full responsibility for any kind of H Vac issues, not knowing what condition the H Vac is in, hoping and praying that it'll be all right. And if there is an issue, you know, I've had a client who had an issue with the H Vac. They had to close their business. They couldn't afford to get it fixed. You know, it was just. They didn't even know that H Vac clause was in. Their contract and that they were solely responsible for it. And, you know, their high season was their doors were closed because of the H VAC clause. They weren't even aware of. Wow. We've had cases about exclusivity clauses, whether the landlord can open up a similar business in, let's say, the. The shopping center that you're in. And we've had that happen before, and that could substantially impact your revenue.

So you're a gym and then they're going to open a gym right next to you or something like that.

Yes. You know, if there is no. When you're going into the lease, the landlord usually isn't. Doesn't care about that exclusivity class because they don't have another gym that wants to rent. So that's usually something that's pretty easy to negotiate in your lease. But if you sign it and then they bring in a gym, you know, what are we going to do now? You know, that's not in there. There's nothing prohibiting them from doing that. And now your revenue is cut in half because, you know, they're going to the gym next door and they have options. You know, that's. The market will determine, you know, what your landlord will do. And sometimes they will take that tenant even though it will impact your income in order to fill a space. So we've seen that happen. That's. They run the gamut of different issues. But I would just say that a lot of the clauses in another one. So prevailing party attorney's fees. We would like to see that if you end up in a dispute, whoever wins the dispute gets their attorney's fees. A lot of times landlords will write their lease so that they are the only party entitled to attorney's fees if a dispute arises. So you want that to be even. The winner gets their fees, not just the landlord. And that's something that's usually easily negotiable if you bring it up at the beginning before you move in. So.

Wow, those are really good. Those are really good. I'm sure businesses don't look at that.

Yeah, we had a very long dispute having to do with zoning. The property wasn't zoned for whatever the business wanted to do. And they didn't know that until they got in there. And that became. That turned into a lawsuit.

So, you know, we had a client, they do millwork and cabinet making and painting. Well, the fumes that they have. Apparently this building wasn't zoned to be able to, like, put this specific type of thing that releases these Gases or something. And they signed this agreement and they couldn't use the building because they didn't think of all this stuff. But you, you don't know. That's why you get professionals involved.

Obviously you don't know what you don't know. Yeah.

All right, so switching gears a little bit to something fun. So when people are looking to scale, not that it's not fun, but something more exciting for some people than getting sued for their bad contracts or something. But if someone's looking to scale their business and they're looking maybe at thinking about like stock option or giving their top players, like their sales, their VP of sales, their VP production, their coo, like those type people, some stock options or some type of incentive, what. How do they even begin the process of thinking about how that would go? Like is there. Yeah, how does it work?

Is a great question. And that is a great option, especially for startups. You might not have a lot of capital, but you want to bring on really talented people to give them some buy in into the business which they can recoup in the future is a good way to scale your business without having a lot of capital on the front end. And we see a lot of people do that. Stock option agreements are not the easiest to put together. They can be somewhat costly, but depending on how many people you're going to give the stock options to, it can be a very advantageous option for your employees or partners or people in the business.

Is there like a breakdown that you have seen? You know, I've seen Shark Tank and they're like, don't give up, you know, 30 of your business, whatever. But like have you, have you seen it or any recommendations on like how people would slice things up or maybe like a tiered system like hey, after a certain amount of time you get this much stuff or what do you think?

Yeah, most of the time it's based upon time, how long the person is in the company and sometimes it's based upon performance. Stock options can have. There are a number of ways to skin the cat, as they say. So there are a lot of different intricacies to that that you can build into it however you want that to be structured. We have people who create those before they even open the door because they know that they're going to need them to retain the talent that they need. So you know, it just depends on where you are in their business. But normally it's for startup companies that you know, want to bring on people and may not have the capital to do that. And that is a great way to do that.

Okay. The other thing. The other fun thing that I like is selling businesses. That is something that I feel like King. We've gone through it with maybe four or five businesses, and it's a. It's a bear to go through without the litigation side of things, but just like the due diligence process and answering all their questions. So if someone's thinking about selling their business, and obviously, you know, you got to find a buyer and stuff, but how does someone go through that process of, like, protecting themselves, but then also making sure that they get the correct amount of money for their business?

Well, if you. If you've ever sold a business, you know what the word due diligence means or bought one, I mean, it is a. It can be a daunting process. But the purpose of due diligence is to make sure that, you know you're getting what you're paying for and that there are no surprises on the back end after you buy the business. And depending on what type of business you're buying, that can be a very time that could take, you know, six months, you know, it could take a year, depending on what type of business you're in. But it's just basically looking on, looking through all the information, seeing if there's litigation, seeing what type of contracts, reviewing leases, looking at all of the documentation so that you can make sure that you're getting what you. What you're paying for. So that is a big component, definitely.

So let's say someone's thinking about selling their business. Someone approaches them and says, like, hey, I want to. I want to make you an offer. I'm going to go through due diligence. I just need you to sign this letter of intent. Should they reach out to an attorney to be like, hey, can you just make sure all this is good? Or do they just sign the letter of intent and go through the due diligence? Like, when do they actually reach out to an attorney to help them in this process?

So we have had people reach out to us to draft the letter of intent, and we have had people reach out to us, and they said, you know, I've known this person for a long time. I understand the business. I just want you to draft the buy sell, and we're ready to go. And, you know, if you're comfortable with that and, you know, you feel like you know enough about the business, there's some businesses that are not that complex that people don't feel like it's necessary to go through that process, and it may not be. And, you know, we can help you draft the agreement to just get the business sold and go to closing. So it really depends on one, your familiarity with, you know, purchasing businesses and how well you know the person who's selling it. Is it just, you know, you went through a broker or is it somebody that, you know? Because we have a lot of people who, you know, somebody has worked in the business and somebody is retiring and they want to take it over. So, you know, they know the ins and outs of the businesses, they know the liabilities, they know the clients, you know, they know the books. So that's a different situation. You don't need the same level of due diligence because you're basically in the business. Right. So I think that you can get legal assistance at any point. I don't think there's a right or wrong there. It just kind of depends.

Okay, what would you say coming up isn't is a big change in the industry, you know, AI and all this kind of stuff, and everyone's got a lawyer in their back pocket with ChatGPT or something.

I'm laughing.

We're both laughing.

If you can't see it, what would.

You say about that in the industry and how is this going to shape things in the future and what's your thoughts?

Love technology. And I think ChatGPT and AI is a wonderful. I think, I think it's great. I think it's great for so many business owners and provides another tool to help them scale their business. I think that with anything, it can be abused or overused. There was a situation where an attorney had their entire brief written on CHAT GPT and there were cases in there that weren't actual cases and did not turn out well for them. So I think you need to do your due diligence, so to speak, and double check what you know, AI. But I think it is a great tool. It is extremely helpful if used correctly and with the correct oversight.

Yeah, I guess I could see attorneys using discovery and like running stuff into discovery and then running it through some prompting and like pull things out. Like, I could see how it might shave off a lot of time from discovery.

We were, I was just in a seminar where they were talking about that and, you know, AI can, you can just put in the parameters of the search and I think you have to be comfortable that there will be a certain margin of error. But if you compare that to the time that it would take, you know, a human to go through these documents, which also has a margin of error. It usually is much. You know, it's worth it in most of the situations. And, you know, it is a relatively small margin of error because of the way AI has developed. So a lot of people are using that now for document productions, and it is certainly a great tool.

Yeah, I could definitely see that. One of my friends this what I was thinking about the ChatGPT. One of my friends is a lawyer, and her favorite term is it depends. I could see ChatGPT as the default. It depends. It depends.

On.

Yeah. That's so funny. Well, Margo, thanks so much. You've added so much value, and I really appreciate you sharing this information. Where's the best place people can get in contact with you? What should they. Where should they go?

So we just revamped our website, ThomasLaw plc.com and it has lots of helpful information about wherever you are in your business, helping you scale your business, start a business, sell a business. So I encourage anyone listening to check that out. There's a lot of free resources on there. Our contact information, you can certainly pick up the phone and give us a call at 703-957-2577. And our email information is on the website. I encourage you to go check it out.

Awesome. And where's your jurisdictions? D.C. maryland.

Maryland. Yes.

Okay, cool. So if you don't have a lawyer and you need a lawyer, you got one now because you just listen to this podcast. So co car I'm even thinking about my contracts. I'm like, maybe I should have someone review them. So thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Yep. And I'll talk to you soon. Thank you.

All right, sounds good. See ya.