Why Your Best Employees Are Burning Out (And What To Do About It)

Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Phil Risher, and on today's episode, we're talking about building healthier teams, reducing burnout, and leading better through stress with Jessica Hallahan. Thanks so much for joining us today, Jessica.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, for sure. I'm very excited to talk to you in particular because I don't think I've ever had anyone on the show talking about your topic and it's very, very prevalent from the home service base. I used to work in a home service business, so I know it for sure. But could you tell people a little bit about yourself, how you got into the home service blue collar field, and then like what you do, like maybe 2, 3 minutes?

Yeah, of course. Of course. So my nutshell story is I started my career in the drug and alcohol field, working with men reduced their sentence from jail, wanted to be on the prevention side of things. So went back to school, got my master's in public health, did a whole workshop on it for my practical. And my professor said, hey, by the way, you could turn this into a business. And as a stubborn woman, I said, well, how hard can that be? Um, and then so I went into the networking world. I was like, all right, let's just— I, I teach stress. And they're like, so to who and what? And then you had to learn that whole thing. Um, and then the nutshell story of how I got into blue collar is the fact that a local HVAC company was like, hey, we do educational stuff for our team all the time, can you come here? Of course, said yes. And especially in the beginning, you just say yes to everything.

Yes.

Don't care what it is. But then of course I had to do the research and I learned so much about the blue-collar industry, how high the stress is, how high the suicide rates are. And I was like, oh, this, this is my spot.

This is it.

So yeah.

Yeah. Very cool.

Yeah.

I think when you go to the networking events and then it's like, okay, a lot of people here own local service businesses and then it's like, okay, maybe I can help these people out. And then it naturally like a community, they get you the referrals and then just the snowball goes. That's happened in my business too.

Exactly how it happened. Exactly. Yes.

Yeah. Awesome. So we work with specifically like $1 million to $10 million home service businesses and we see these like buckets of, of people like $1 to $3 million, $3 to $5, and then $5 to $10. Specifically like $1 to $3 is like the hero syndrome where people are like, they're running around ragged and trying to do everything and they don't have the systems, they don't have the team and they're trying to do it, but it's like, it's a sticky situation. So How do you work with business owners like that or companies to help just like the owner navigate that stress and chaos that's going on?

Oh yeah. And I think, you know, as business owners, we know that exact feeling of doing it all but not doing anything, right? Like, yes, yes, that's what you're feeling. So I think there's a couple of things. So I personally work, you know, we get the team together, we do educational workshops around the stress, around the communication. But a lot of what you're saying too is those systems. And it's one of those things that how do we create that consistency in a system, right? These are very things that's nice to talk about, but how do we actually make it applicable that we can apply it to ourselves? I think there's a lot of nice shiny objects out there, but how do we make something make sense for us? And so sometimes I tell people, you don't need the next shiny thing. You just need to figure out what works for your team, you know, and especially in the blue collar industry, right? We're not— they're very hands-on. So me handing them an app or something like that might not be beneficial for them, and that's okay. And knowing that there's other things that you can do. So I think really figuring out what works for your team the most and being okay with that.

Yeah. So, so with the HVAC contractor, what were some of the like workshops or systems or things that you might have helped them with?

Yeah, a lot of it was communication. I think that's the biggest thing when it comes to, I feel like, any industry, but also in our blue collar field, right? Is a lot of the communication because in that specific company they would switch truck partners, right? So we weren't always riding with the same person. So kind of going back to that system, right? I might always like riding with Johnny. I'm like, great, me and Johnny, we work so well together. But when Eric comes, I'm like, oh my God, he's slower. I have to tell him what to do, right? So we had to figure out what is it that I'm really good at and then communicating with it. I always make the example of when I would bartend and I would work with somebody new, I'm like, all right, cool, what do you like doing? Do you like working in the well? Do you like service? I don't care, but we just need to figure out what our system is. And so how do we actually have that without it being like, oh, you don't like the way I do something, right? So how do you have that conversation for sure?

Yeah, it's funny. I laughed right away because so at my home service, we had 28 technicians and all the guys would come in and clock in in the morning and they would get their route sheet. And then on the route sheet they had a lead tech and then we would put new people with people to train them or different things. And every time it was like this whole ordeal, like, I'm not working with this guy, he's lazy, or he doesn't do exactly what you're saying. It's like, bro, we're trying to get this guy trained up. But yes, yeah, so I understand that. So what are some of— could you break down a practical thing that's like, let's say someone's listening to this and they're like, I have this exact issue. How would you coach them or help bridge that communication gap between technicians, the owner, like what they're doing, that kind of stuff?

Yeah. So I always like to create more stress so they can feel it, right? So I will do some type of cheesy activity. So one of the ones that they love so much is I give everybody duct tape and straws and they have to build a contraption so I can drop a raw egg into it. Stick with me. You're probably like, what the heck is this woman doing? No, it's good. One, I can't bring PowerPoints to these guys. It's not going to work, right? Again, we're hands-on companies. So how am I going to do it? So I bring some type of competition, whether it's that or some type of building aspect of it, and then I give everybody different challenges, right? So if you are typically— I will talk to the manager beginning, like, all right, who typically is your solo guy? Just wants to work always by himself, doesn't want— right? Who are those people? Who's the person that's always taking the lead? So I always help talk to that manager or the HR, whoever that person is in the beginning, to kind of figure out if I don't know already who those people are. And I put them in those kind of challenges. I'll put that solo person by themselves. All right, great. You think you can do this with no team and still win? Let's figure this out. Let's put you by yourself. Now, the person that always takes lead, hey, by the way, you have to sit silently, right? So basically I'm making them feel like do something that's different out of their comfort zone or challenging what they think they know. And then let's talk about it. Why does it work? Why did it not work? Right? Because I'm not saying that these are all the right ways, but let's just create awareness and have the conversation. And what you start to realize is Joe, who always sits in the behind the scenes, actually is able to speak up.

Yeah.

Eric, who was looked at as lazy, he might just not know. He doesn't learn that way. Okay, great. Let's teach a different way. Right? So you kind of learn your communication skills and your learning skills as I do these cheesy activities.

Yeah, definitely. I think one of the biggest things when I went to work at my home service business— before that I worked at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and it's like a big family-owned business. But they have very good systems and processes. And one of them was like, get together for happy hours and do like a lot of events outside of work to build the relationships with your teammates. And when I went to work at the home service, we're $3 million, we had like 30 people and we did nothing aside from maybe a picnic every year. And I'm like, dude, like I tell the owner, I'm like, we gotta do something else that's like culture and relationship building to your point. Like you get them out of their normal routines. I feel like that's a big part of it. So would you recommend that people have like a cadence of like monthly education type things or quarterly or what's the cadence that works best you think?

Yes. And I think so kind of going to what works best, right? So for specifically for my HVAC, I have a couple of HVAC companies and a lot of them, right, they have their busy seasons, right? July, they're not calling me in July. Everybody's AC is not working, right? They're not calling me in December because no one's heater is working, right? So understanding that there might be, you might be on a monthly basis, you might be on a quarterly basis, right? So I think again, figuring out what your seasons are and then going from there. But I think again, going, talking about what is that system, how do I know this is coming up, so it's not like, oh my God, we have to do this whole thing and, you know, whatever. But yeah, I think there— and I think also realizing that there's so many different education pieces. I do one of these, um, one of my activities that I did with the work, uh, one of my clients was like, what is it that you want to learn, right? Because I might not be everything you need. I just teach stress. There's so many other things that you want to learn. So figuring out what they actually want to learn, and you'll realize that they do want more learning. I did this at two companies, and I could tell you the list of the safety trainings that they want. There's just different safety. They want more.

Oh, shit. This— we did duct cleaning, and we had to have an eyewash station and all this stuff. And it's like, what? Yes. And they did a whole training on it and everything. I agree. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's just so much. The HVAC company that hired me at the beginning, they started He was bringing in financial advisors. He was bringing in mortgage people. He was bringing—

Oh, that's great.

So it's just like, it doesn't always have to be these certain things, but we spent— you're just kind of bringing that culture together, like you're saying, and education to them. Yeah.

Yeah. One of the things— so my— this— after I worked at Duck Cleaning Company, my— one of my first clients, they were a $3 million HVAC contractor, and he went to $8 million and then ultimately sold. But one of the things that he did was he had Tuesday technician, just like 30 minutes to an hour of just education. And he didn't— I like your idea, like bring in the financial advisor, bring in like different people from your BNI group or whatever, but he would at least have some type of designated time to educate them. And I think a lot of business owners, they look at it as dead time. Like, well, these guys are getting paid on the clock, right? But they're not actually making any revenue. How do you talk to an owner that might feel that way of like, I got 10 guys sitting around here, like, is this worth it?

But what I think, again, going back to, I'm bringing my team together, they're getting to know each other, and they're getting something more, right? I'm giving them more resources. And like you said, just in the blue-collar world, whether it's safety, whether it's a duck training, whether— there's so many little things, that new tool, that new, hey, there's a new rule or law, right? And getting these trainers in, the one client that I have, we go before work even starts, right? So I'm there at 6 AM. Right. And so again, what works for your team? And it's not so much because the bottom line, but they're already coming, they're about to do their truck inspections, right? They did like a check if the trucks were clean. So they were already going to bring all the trucks that day anyway. So again, they're building off a system like, okay, everyone's coming here this day anyway, so let's just make it a whole training while their trucks get checked. So it's just like building off those systems, right? So I think again, there's ways to do it. That makes sense for, you know, the bottom line and realizing what happens to your bottom line when you bring your team together too.

Yeah, for sure. So you're in PA, right?

I am. Yeah.

So do you do virtual or do you go out to places or— I mean, I think it's probably the most impactful if it's on site, you know, the whole thing. But what are your thoughts on that stuff?

I do, I, I travel a lot and I'm definitely mostly in person for sure. Like you said, there's just a different— nothing against virtual, right? We're virtual right now. There's benefits to it. And I also know that there's a different learning that happens when you're in person, right? Um, you're getting the team together, you get them a little snacky snacks, right? Everybody loves free food. I'm always be real. Um, you get your little snacks going, and then, you know, you get that team together in person. I think there's just that extra step. If you— it's kind of like You do extra steps, I'm gonna do extra steps for you. And so I think it's just one of those examples of it's just those small things.

Yes. So you will go mostly onsite to places opposed to virtual because you get more engagement probably, especially it's like virtual, like, okay guys, get your eggs out of the carton, you know?

And they're like, what?

Like, what is going on? Where are we going right there?

Or right there, like all the screens are black and you just see the people's names. I'm like, okay. Yeah.

Can we get it? Can we get your screen on please? That's funny. So do you do any work specifically with the owners of the companies, like to coach them on how to coach their team or how to be better leaders?

Not necessarily with the leadership. I do a lot with the field guys and like the field management. I think, you know, there is a lot of leadership coaching out there, which is amazing and it's so needed. And I think there also has to be something that's done for the actual team too. So I, I, I work a lot with them because of that too.

Okay, perfect. I'm gonna throw out like all the situations that we had and I just wanna hear like what you would say to this. Okay, let's see. You got a guy who's been there for 20 years. You put a new guy with him and he says that he's lazy and he's not gonna make it and he doesn't wanna work with him. How would you, we talked about the egg thing, but like is there anything else that you could do to like help bridge that gap? 'Cause you need that guy to train this guy so that way you can get more routes open.

100%. So I think there's a couple things. Sometimes we see a guy and he's just so good at what he does, and so we're like, well, we want everybody to be like him, right? So understanding what this guy is— is this guy a teacher? Because just because you're good at your job does not mean you're a teacher. So I think that's the first one, is realizing, is he even a teacher? Just because you're good at it doesn't mean you're a teacher. And that we've seen that with like supervisors and foremen and things like that, right? So I think that's the first one. And I think if he is a teacher and he's used to doing this and he's really good at this and he's like 'Yo, Joe is not making it. He is so lazy.' I think also defining like what is lazy. All right, Joe's lazy. What is lazy? Is he like, is he not fast enough because he doesn't know something so we have to do different kind of training? Or is he really lazy and this is not for him?

He's on the phone, he sleeps in the truck between routes, like all the stuff.

Right, right, right. Like, so I think understanding what lazy is and then going from there. So I think the biggest part is like listening to what your good employee is Having them able to speak that out and supporting them from there.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, let's say you got guys that might be taking advantage of the clock and like, you know, taking the long way back to the shop so they can clock out.

Never, never happens. Never. These are such rare moments, right? So I think for that too, I think there's a couple things that's going on. One, I think one of the things that In this industry, right, let's be real, in this industry it's a lot of men, and a lot of our men in this industry are the main breadwinners, right? And so as we— before we even started recording, you're talking about your kids and things like that, right? That's stressful, right? So if this is something out of character, if all of a sudden he's taking the longer routes— and it's not all of a sudden, but you know, you're noticing it more and more, right? Um, I would have that conversation like again, what, what's going on? And actually listen to them. I think this is the biggest part too, because if there is something— maybe there's something going on at home. And I think like taking our defense down, it's not always about like, oh, he's just trying to take the bottom line from us. It's like, no, yes, he might not doing it right, and I'm not validating his actions by any means. And I also, as a supervisor, an owner, or my employee, I have to figure out like what's going on with him, because especially if this is out of character. Yeah.

Definitely. I think having the conversation is the most important piece. And a lot of times it's like owners are so busy that it's like, I want to have this conversation, but when do I go? Do I go on his job site? Do I like pull him aside? And then it looks weird. And like, those are all things that you have to work through to try to figure it out. And like, do you do one-to-ones every quarter or monthly? Or like, there's— we didn't even do one-to-ones and I kept trying to get the owner. I'm like, we got to do some one-to-ones with these guys, at least like quarterly or something.

Quarterly. Exactly. What's that system again? Because it's not realistic for— not everybody's realistic to have a weekly or monthly, right? So what is it in your field and how do I stay consistent? I think to you, you're saying to like, if the owner's too busy for this, which is a real thing, it's a real thing.

It's a real— my business was really bad like that, right?

And it's hard. This isn't like, oh, you owners, it's okay. Is there somebody I could delegate it to? Is there something on my plate that I need to delegate in general so I can have these one-on-ones, whether it's just that quarterly,, right? How do I get that train moving? Maybe I'm doing one-on-ones with my foreman or my superintendents or whoever, the job lead, right? And then those guys are now having one-to-ones, right? And maybe there's just a train, right? And so again, it's figuring out what's best for you. And I think sometimes we're in this all-in-or-nothing mindset and it's just like, there's so many ways that we can kind of twist this up.

Yeah. With the owner of the company that I was at, I was like, who, not how. And then let's give it to the service manager and then let's just do them. Yeah, it's so good. And then Yes, you know that you should do it, but doesn't mean that you have to know how to do it or what to do. So I think that's good. I also want to ask you, since it's more about like the team building aspect of it, how do you get— we talk about the guys like trying to get their hours, you know, maybe they have some type of like bonuses or something like that. How do you get them to see the big picture of like what we're doing as the company and bought into that? Is there anything that like in those group settings that you would recommend to do? Like, Do you share the numbers? Do you talk about this stuff? Like, I don't know if there's anything that you do or talk with them.

Yeah. And I think you, and we've done this conversation, right? Not you and I, but like with my companies where it's just like my clients that like, what is it that you want for the future of the company? What are you trying to learn more about? And that kind of what's that safety training? And like, hey, I want more of these things. You realize, listen, they want the bonuses, they want the money. Obviously we all do, right? Like we can't ignore that. And there's, again, going back to, there's so much. And when you do this, when you have these conversations, you will see that they are more dedicated to this job than sometimes we give them credit for. I did this, um, I guess last year again, like, what is it that you want? What is it your— what are your goals, right, for yourself in this position? And things like that. So many people are like, oh, we want to be number one again, because I have a lot of companies that have like the multiple locations. And so it's just like, oh, we're going to beat them again, or we're going to— like, there's that competition of like, oh, I'm going to make us this much money this year, right? And these are field guys, right? So I think again, realizing that they do want more for the company it's just giving them that space and time to have that conversation.

Yeah. Can we unpack that a little bit? So that, that exercise, let's say you go into a room and there's like 10 technicians. Do you just say like, hey, what are your goals for the next 12 months? Write them down. Or like, I can already, like, they're gonna be like, what the heck?

Yeah.

Okay. That's what I'm saying.

Like, I can already hear them like, I don't even know how to use journals too.

No way. Yeah, exactly. And like another thing, our technicians, English wasn't even their first language. So then it was like, how do we like, coached them to like do those things. So yeah, how would an owner approach that if they wanted to do that in their business?

Yeah, of course. So the way I did it, this was not the first workshop I did with them by any means. Like I had to build that trust with them. So that'd be my thing too with the owners when they're talking with their teams, like we're not just like, okay, we've never had a 1-to-1, we never sat down again, let's talk about all these hard things. There has to be that build up. So I think that's the first thing first is like, what does that build up look like? Is it these quarterly luncheons? Is it like whatever that is? Yes. And then you kind of can have that conversation again, like later on of, okay, cool. Like what are some goals? What are the goals you want for the team? What are the goals that you need to do and what resources do you need to get with them? Right. So I think there's different ways to do that. For me, what I was, I was talking about was like habits. So in my workshop we were talking about habits. How do you build habits? And that kind of led into our goal conversations. You also mentioned the language barrier. One of my clients, they had the whole— when everything was going on with Ukraine and things like that, he had hired a couple of people from Ukraine. Yeah. And basically he told his team, hey, whoever downloads this app to learn Ukraine, I will pay for the app and I will— if you become somewhat fluent, I'll give you $200. I don't know, it was $250 or something like that. Like something, right? Again, like that initiative that, you know, and then more, and what ended up happening is they ended up creating that bond because they were able to speak to each other. And then what happened happening was more, they hired more people, which then they hired more, right? And so you understand like bringing that culture in is in different ways. So I think, and the last piece I wanted to say too, because you said something earlier, and this was like what the truck thing and the driving is that, what's that accountability piece too? So like, Am I holding myself accountable? If I say I'm gonna do something, am I doing it? And vice versa.

Yeah. There's this really good book by Mike McCallough called All In. And he says, if you want your team to go all in on you, you have to go all in on them. And it's like so challenging, right? Because like you get your heart broken over and over again. Guys stealing from you, peeing in the hallways of things. Dude, it's ridiculous things. Like these are real things. Like stealing from customers' homes. Like, All like, these are all things. And then you still have to like go back into the next relationship and go all in on it every single time. And it's just like, it's very, very challenging for that. But from what I'm hearing from you, it's like, like the, like the Ukraine thing is like, you got to go all in on these guys as much as possible over and over and over again. And it's guys like, they're not going to tell you, thanks so much, man. I appreciate you love me, you know, like they're never going to say that. But underneath of it, they feel that. I think what you're saying.

Yeah, no, it's 1,000% what I'm saying, right? Like, how am I showing up in, in their language, right? And that's what I'm saying, right? So how do I know how they're speaking? How do I know what they need? It's by being there and being involved. And again, if I'm not that person, who do I have that I trust and have— it could be there for them? And again, like, we're gonna have these people. I'm not saying that you're not gonna have the people that you're gonna do the, do the things, right?

Yes.

But the— I think again, going to that is like, as if I'm a good employee, what are you doing? What accountability you're holding against that person that's not doing well, that is being lazy, that is peeing in the hallways, that is doing these things, right? So I think what's that accountability look like, right? So I think again, if I'm working my butt off and someone doesn't have to— yes, you know, we have to have those conversations too. Yeah.

Okay, I got another one because I'm just very curious to hear what you think about this. So you mentioned about in— they brought people from Ukraine and then they have, you know, family or friends that also want to work there. This was very prevalent at my home service business.

About—

we had 28 technicians, about 14 of them were all relatives. So it'd be like, it'd be like dad and son, brother, cousin, right? And then they only wanted to work with their crew people.

Like, yeah, this is a thing. This is a thing.

It's really a thing. Like, I didn't know about this until it's like, this is a good place to work. So like they want to get all of their family members to come and work, which is great. But then you have these like really strong bonds that happen against each other. Yeah. So any thoughts on that?

I'm glad you brought this because this is a real thing, right? And you, like you said, we want people to bring other people in because that shows how much they love the job. They're creating the community, they're helping create the culture. Hopefully they're like them, so they bring in more, right? I think again, going back to because it comes quick, right? Because they are relatives. So I think there's two things. Family has to stay at home. And what I mean by that is like we're not having family problems at work. Just like if your kids are sick, you can't come on the spot. It's like, well, I'm so sorry, I'm in a bad mood because my kids— like, we have to, like, you know, show up for work. Let's leave what we can at the door. Again, we're still human. I'm not saying come and shipper, right? Like I'm saying we're still human. And I think the other thing is, again, like, what are those boundaries and accountability I'm setting? Are they allowed to just do whatever they want? Because like, oh, well, I'm not working with so-and-so, I'm just going to take my brother. And it's like, well, am I allowing that when Johnny has to get trained, even though Johnny's not a brother or a relative? So again, I know that I keep putting back so much on the owner and the accountability, but I'm setting the standards for what's happening, right? And so I know that's tiresome and I know that's draining and I don't want like that to be overlooked by any means.. But if I set the standards, they know what they're allowed to do. We talked about dogs earlier, right? Yeah. Offline is that like when I'm training them, they know they can't go on the couch because that's what I've trained them to do. When you told your kids it's bedtime at 8 o'clock, they might not like it, but they know 8 o'clock is the bedtime, right? So it's like, what standards am I setting for my team?

Yes, for sure. That was a big thing that I learned at Enterprise because they coached that into us was just like the standards. And then if you want to change something, then you have to have very good follow-through over and over again, just like a dog, just like a kid. And then obviously with team members, it's more like what you want them to do. You have to have that as your standard. So like we built like a matrix where it tracked all their performance and then every single day they'd come in and see their stuff. So then they would compete against each other where if you never talk about it, then they're never going to know. And then you wonder why nothing moves.

And yes.

Yeah, I think a lot of times it's just hard because there's so much stuff going on and it's like, yeah. And I think if you're listening to this and you're a business owner, I would recommend just start with one thing. Like we're saying a lot of this stuff, but just like start with one thing, like a quarterly get-together or something. Is that what you would recommend? I'm sure, but like—

100%. Have you— I know we named quite a few books, but have you read The One Thing?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good.

Yeah. It's so good.

It's so good.

Just the one thing and perfect that and then add to it. Right. And I think that's what you're saying too. And we're talking about residential homes and things like that, you're not coming in and doing an entire bathroom at once, right? Like you have to start somewhere, right? And so I actually give this example all the time. Like if I wanna redo my bathroom, I'm not just like, you don't just demo, oh my goodness, you don't just like tear it all down, right? Like you have to clean it out, you have to measure it, you have to get the tools, you have like, so there is steps. And just like when we build systems, it's the same thing. The systems that I build in the sense of building a house or building a bathroom or doing the driveway, whatever the case may be, there's systems within our business too. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Well, let's say someone, you know, has 10 team members and they're like, I really want to build some culture with my technicians. Where should people go to learn about you? Or, yeah, what should they do next?

Yeah, of course. So super awesome. Let's do it. So yes, I do stress management workshops. We talk about communication, time management. I also have field safety ones. So that's awesome. You know, how to pause, not run around, you know, trip over things that— which again never happens. Um, so my website—

it's crazy, I have stories for that too, ridiculous.

So my website is journeytourself.net, and then my email is jessica@journeytourself.net. I'm also pretty active on LinkedIn, so if that's where you're at, um, I'm more, you know, it's Jessica Hallahan. It might be parentheses Harrington somewhere in between or after. So that is me. Cool.

Well, thanks so much, Jessica. It's always good just like talking shop with people about the craziness that goes on behind the scenes. And also it's great to have a resource like you out there to help people through this because there's no class in school on this. They don't teach you this, you know, when you get your trades license and none of this stuff, like you just figure it out. So it's really great to have people like you. So thank you so much. Appreciate you coming on the show and look forward to continuing the conversation.

Thank you.