The Good, Bad & Ugly of Coaching w/ Coryn Quester

Coaching, therapy, mentorship, consulting— what's the difference? Today's interview, I'm featuring Corinne Quester, where we are going over the good, the bad, and the ugly in the coaching niche. Corinne is the founder of meshwell.co, where they link you up with the right kind of coach based on your goals. Corinne's mission is to not just match you up with the perfect coach, because it can truly be life-changing, She's also on a mission to make coaching more affordable so that you don't have to invest a mortgage payment, as she says, to find a coach and then find out that it wasn't the right coach. And that's why she invented MeshWell. In this interview, we're covering what coaching really is and how it can get confused with different types of similar practices. We're also gonna dive into some tips on how to pick the right kind of coach yourself. And we go into how the coaching industry can be a little cringey right now and how to have the best. To learn more about Corinne Quester and what she's doing over at meshwell.co, go to meshwell.co or also check out the links down in the description. Without further ado, let's dive into the good, the bad, and the ugly in the coaching industry. Hey Corinne, what's up?

How you doing today?

Ah, I'm doing great, James. How are you?

I am super pumped actually because I get Corinne Kester is your last name, right?

Lester Quester.

Close.

Just how it's spelled, how it sounds. And okay, sounds how it's spelled.

You on the show today. And today is going to be super fun because this is a topic that both you and I are very passionate about and is about the coaching industry as a whole, how to find the right coach. And today is going to be a lot of fun because we're going to bring a lot of clarity, a lot of maybe things to the surface. I don't know. We're going to see what happens, but it's going to be action-packed and very insightful. I guarantee that. So you have a company, uh, called meshwell.co, and you guys basically, from my understanding, I want you to explain more of this, uh, you guys basically connect people with the right kind of coach. So tell me a little bit more about how your business kind of works and what kind of made you get started with that and decide to do that.

Yeah, so coming from the coaching industry myself, um, started more in the general coaching space, moved into business. I think that's kind of what your path took.

Yeah.

Um, so being a student of coaching, because I hired my own coaches myself, being a student of coaching and then also owning my own coaching business for a number of years, 3+ years, um, I just— something within the industry, I just noticed a lot of gaps, or I don't know, I hate to say like injustices because that makes it sound so harsh, but it's more of just some gaps that I noticed in the industry. And I just had a passion and developed a mission to make those, make those things better and get, get in, get things improved and, and more helpful for people. Um, not that coaching isn't helpful, because if you find the right coach, it can be so— I mean, just huge advocate of it being so powerful and helpful to you. And I think that was one of the biggest things that I wanted to address, was helping people find the right coach. Um, it's so hard to find the right coach out there in a sea of social feeds and YouTubes and Googles, and just, it's overwhelming to try to find the right coach. And I just saw that as an industry in the gap. And not to mention that some coaches take on clients that they're not fit to handle, um, or it's just not their zone of genius. Um, so a lot damage can be done if you don't have the right coach. So that was one of the biggest reasons why I moved into starting Meshwell. Uh, Meshwell is my company. It is matching— personally matching clients to the right coach, because it— in addition to finding the right person to work with, it's, it's hard to find the right type of coach to work with. You might think you need— and, and please, James, jump in anytime— you might think you need a life coach when you really need a career coach, or you might think you need a business coach when you really need a life coach. Um, so it's, it's just this very, um, ambiguous, unclear, muddy thing, um, that I really want to make more clear, more personal, and more right for people to get. So that they get the best results.

Totally. Yeah. No, I love it. And I think it's such a cool idea. When I found you online or we connected somehow, I was like, I want her on the show.

I want to do this.

It's something huge. I mean, I think if anybody has been in the entrepreneurial space or as a coach ourselves or creator, we want to learn from people who've done it or who are excelling at it or doing it, you know, someone who can help us or even someone just to hold us accountable, whatever it is. But like you said, it's not always a good fit. What kind of advice do you have for someone looking to hire their first or their next coach in terms of like, I guess maybe red flags and green flags of what to look for in matching with the right kind of coach?

I think that's hard because you can, you can develop a list of like questions that like, if you tick off some boxes, but even then it's hard to see the forest through the trees. You might think you need something, but it's really not something you need. You might think— and now I'm kind of going down a different path here, so I apologize— you might think you need a coach when you really need a therapist, or you might think you need a mentor when you really need a coach. Um, so I actually advocate for people getting guidance on who to hire because it's, it, it's so unclear about like who to get help from, that even you could be blinded to red flags or green flags. Um, so it's really hard for me to say these are the clear-cut red flags because not only is your help needs different from everybody on the planet, you are different. You are unique from everyone on the planet. So it's— there's no cut and dry there. So I don't know, that's, that's probably not the answer you want.

Um, but I guess if like if I was thinking about, you know, hiring a coach, maybe let's say I decide to go through Meshwell or maybe not, but like, and I'm on a sales call and I'm like, I want help with this specific issue. I guess how, how do you kind of recommend to go about that? Maybe if you're gonna match someone with a coach, how do you kind of decide if it's like you need business coaching versus you need therapy or life coaching?

It's so, I'm very strategic in how my intake form, it's called a matching profile, is created. It is narrowing somebody down to the most important goal or shift or transition they want to make in their life. And I make it very specific that they whittle it down to the one. And from there, it's determined just based on my years of coaching and understanding, oh, you want to change from being a teacher into an actress. You don't need business coaching, you need career coaching. Or maybe you want to find work-life balance, but it's really more setting boundaries in your career versus your life. That's career coaching. Or maybe it's more setting boundaries in your life than your career. That's life coaching. So just based on your unique to you goal, or shift, I have the knack or the ability to sort of dissect that and figure out who is the right coach within the coaching industry to work with, or the right type. Um, and in Meshwell, I have— I don't know if I— I wouldn't say that I had every single type out there because there's so many, um, but I have them pretty much covered of like what type of person or type of coach you would need based on your unique goal or shift.

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, it's just kind of interesting cuz I mean, it is kind of tricky nowadays too cuz some, I actually made a post about this and it's stirring the pot a little bit, but I was like, great coaches suck at marketing. And it was kind of funny because like there's people who are freaking phenomenal at coaching and they love it and they love the craft and they're passionate. But when it comes to like marketing and the sales and stuff, they get like lost in the weeds. But then there's people who are. Really good at marketing and sales, and they'll get you to sign up for their program and pay the money, and then they kind of leave you in the weeds, or they leave you worse off than you were before. But it's tricky because when it comes to picking the right coach, you could be on a call with someone and they got the sales system dialed in to where you got the emotions going left and right, and you're like, oh my God, you're feeling a lot of stuff. So it almost like you, you do have to like have a connection with the person, but you also have to be able to discern like if it is the right person, not just go off of emotion, but also kind of that logic. So exactly like what you're saying is if someone is gonna jump on a, a coaching call with someone to where they could potentially work with the person to decide if they're right for them, like first they should go into that call with a very clear vision or at least spend some time maybe dreaming up what they really do want. And then like, cuz the client kind of like, they do hire, hire the coach where they're like, I know what I want, can you help me get it? I guess.

I don't know.

I'm just trying to piece, yeah, just try to piece together so someone can have some, like, some tools in their tool belt for picking a right coach, um, on their own even.

Yeah. And, and I guess that's why I sort of whittle down, like I I kind of force people down a path in the matching profile because a lot of people do come to it unclear. And if it's so unclear, I don't know if you agree or disagree, and it's fine either way, but I see life coaching as sort of a funnel. Life coaching is kind of a good starting point if you're just so unclear about what you want to do or where you want to go. Life coaching is your first stop. It's going to help you figure out what you truly want, your values, your vision, your purpose. It's, it's going to start you down the right path if you're not exactly sure what that goal is. And then there's others who come and fill out the profile and they say, I want to start a photography business. I have no clue how to do it. And they're very clear on what their goal is. They just need direction. Um, so again, it's just different people at different stages, and that's why I offer so many types of coaching, because people are at different stages, right? Um, and, and for someone who maybe just wants to figure out what they need on their own, um, in terms of what type of coaching, I would just— yeah, I would just list out and get very clear on What are like 5 things you want to change in your life and put an order to it? And then whatever that first goal is, if it's starting a business, it's hiring a business coach, right? If it's finding your purpose, it's getting a life coach.

Yeah. And life coaches 100% agree with that because that's— I mean, I started out as a life coach, just kind of general, and I was like, this isn't really what I want. And that's what caused me to make pivots and ultimately get to where I am now. Um, but it's true. Like, that's what we do is like, it's all visioning. It's taking action. And through action, you get more clarity on different things. Sometimes you just need that nudge in the right direction. So I think that is a great place to start. Uh, if, you know, whoever's listening is feeling that way, we're just kind of unclear, like hire a life coach. I'm curious to know, um, Corinne, this is a fun topic. What's the difference between a coach versus therapy, mentorship? Consulting, all these different things are going around, but sometimes they seem like the same thing. Sometimes they're not. What is the— what is a coach versus all those other things?

I love talking about this because it is really clear once you hear it. But a lot of people call themselves different things or people hire different things thinking that they're going to supply what they need. So here are my definitions and opinions on that. So for therapy, it's somebody who is struggling with their past and wanting to work through their past, their traumas, whether they have PTSD, or it could be like a mental health issue in terms of like anxiety, depression, addiction. Those types of things require a medical license or a therapist therapy license. It's, it's more of a medical practice versus being a coaching practice. It's something where people can get prescribed if it's like medication for their mental health issues, or it's something that, again, that's more of on the medical side that you need to have licenses and proper training and whatnot. And it's more focused on your past and getting to a baseline. And where coaching comes in is you're— you've worked through your trauma, you've worked through all of that, maybe with a therapist, or maybe you didn't necessarily need a therapist and you're in your good health, mental order, or good mental health order, um, but you want help to move forward. And coaching— so where I see the big differences between therapy and coaching is that coaching is more forward-focused, it's more future-focused, it's helping you actually get to the future you want to get to, whereas therapy is helping you get to a baseline from your past. Um, so those are the big differences that I see from therapy and coaching. Now, mentorship and coaching get very, very inter— um, interchange, and it's totally different. So mentorship, in my opinion, in my definition, is somebody who's done or achieved the success that you want to achieve, or the goal, or they, they've reached some sort of what you define as success.

Kind of the top of the mountain, basically.

Yeah, they're top of the mountain. Exactly. And the— a mentor is going to tell you how they did it and going to give you some steps and some ideas on how they did it. It's from their past. Whereas coaching, a coach doesn't necessarily— hasn't necessarily achieved that exact goal. But they're trained in how to get you there. They're trained in how to draw out what's right for you, whereas a mentor is going to say, this is how I did it. So it's a little bit different in terms of, say you wanted to start a software as a service product. A coach will help you draw out how to take the action on how to do it and hold you accountable for doing it. But a software as a service product mentor would tell you how they coded it or how they created it. Um, so not sure if that's helping or anything, but it's, those are the, those are good examples of what I see the difference between coaching and mentorship. Okay.

What about consulting? Um, coach versus a consultant?

Yeah. This one gets interchanged too. Yeah.

100%.

I see coaching— or I'm sorry, I see consulting as more of strategy and giving you strategic ideas and steps how to do it to get to the future based on their expertise. But it's not necessarily coaching, because coaching again will draw out what's right for you, and they'll help you take the action and build an action plan on how to do it, but the consultant is gonna give you the ideas on what to do.

Hmm.

Or some steps on how to do it.

So my kind of understanding, uh, and I mean, I've, I've dove into this topic myself too, but like a coach, and I've gone through certified coach training over like 4 years, you know, I, I'm certified through a school and all that stuff, and I learned a lot about coaching and realizing you don't have to be at the top of the mountain in order to help someone. Um, it's more about being able to tap into them and ask them the right questions that cause them to come to their own realizations about a specific thing. And that's kind of what I'm getting you mean by, uh, what's right for them.

Drawing out what's right with them. Exactly. It's asking those powerful questions.

Yeah. So it's, it's like, like I help people with online courses and, you know, evergreen funnels and that kind of stuff. And people ask like difference from a coaching and the courses. Coaching is more like asking questions and there is still guidance and hands-on training that you can do where it's kind of that consulting piece. At least I do, cuz I, I do like power hour sessions more for my coaching calls. But there are times where I need to do more like inner work kind of coaching and ask someone about things that they're struggling with. Like, I'm just not doing the work every week. It's like, okay, well like what's getting in the way? And we can go into more of that. That coaching aspect.

Yes.

Yeah. Um, with courses though, it's like you're teaching, you're, cuz you're not, you can't ask those questions per se. It's not that human to human connection. So you're just saying, here's how to do this. And that's kind of where you, you have almost that consulting hat on, even though you can still be a coach. So it's kind of interesting. I feel like they do all kind of like mesh well together.

Even like, see what you did there?

Got me. Uh, cuz you, the, um, like you're, you know, you could be a mentor and still be a great coach. Like Rich Litman, for example, is a really cool coach and he's also a mentor cuz he's, he's really high, he's very successful, but he can go into a business and do consulting. So he kind of wears all of them in his, in his own practice.

100%. 100%. Someone can be a mentor, a coach, and a consultant all in the same person.

Yeah.

It's just the practice is different or the mode, like you said, you, you're kind of taking putting on and taking off hats as the person needs different types of support for different types of things. But not all coaches are mentors, and not all coaches are strategic.

Yeah, I think you have to play to your skill sets, because if you haven't, like, you haven't really, like, climbed the mountain— for example, when I was doing life coaching, I worked with a guy who cleaned, um, he had a cleaning business. I've never run a cleaning business, so I'm not going to consult this guy on how to grow his business.

No.

But I worked with him for a good, like, year or two and was his coach and helped him grow his business because I was there to ask him and encourage him and help him see the steps and see the importance of taking specific steps that were going to grow his business that he couldn't really— or he wasn't prioritizing, like getting his business the next level of certification or connecting with the right kind of people. But I would ask him, like, what do you know you can do? Or what have, like, you've been avoiding? And those kind of questions. And he was realizing like, there's this one person that like, I know he's there and I just never go and talk to him. So then it's like, go talk to him. And then he started doing it cuz he was acting on kind of that inspired insight and all the information that he already had stored in himself. And as a coach, I was just kind of bringing it out of him.

Yep.

Encouraging him to exactly lean into it basically. So yeah. Now, yeah, now with my coaching, like I've, I help people build out systems and stuff like that. And there is times where I need to, put on my coaching hat and ask the questions and stuff. But a lot of it is like I'm screen sharing, I'm teaching things, um, from my experience as well.

Yep. So that you're playing into mentorship and consulting as well as coaching. You're doing all three. You can do all three, right?

There's a time and a place.

You have to kind of intuitively know when you gotta peel it out if you are a coach. Yeah.

Um, so something that, uh, I know, I know that we wanted to talk about was, uh, dehumanizing coaching. And I just wanna know, like, what does that really mean when you say dehumanizing coaching?

So to me it means that a lot of programs out there are very broad or very, very, um, one size fits all to clients. And a lot of coaches try to, and I mean, more power to them if it's helping people. Right. Um, but it's just not gonna help everyone. Because everyone's needs and goals are unique and different and need to be— it needs to be flexible and a little bit adaptive. And a lot of the programs out there tend to be cookie cutter and try to, you know, put square pegs into round holes. And I've fallen, I've fallen victim to that. And I'll be honest that when I was first starting out, I was like, well, this is my process. And it's like, you go down that path. Only. And it's just not, it's just not the way. It's just not going to get everyone the best results because it's not tailoring it to people's needs and to people's, um, personalities or unique goals, right? Um, so courses, courses are another one that I a little bit have, uh, opinions on in terms Like you said, so courses aren't, to me, aren't bad, but it's not coaching, it's instructing, it's giving the how-to, the steps and whatnot. But unless you have some sort of human connection with someone taking a course, it's not going to hold them accountable. A lot of people will likely purchase a course and it'll sit on the shelf or sit you know, in, in their computer or in their email inbox and never get opened. Or if it does get opened, it might get finished or they won't do anything with it. Um, but that's why a lot of courses tend to not— or tend to have a very high failure rate, is because a lot of them don't have that human connection where someone can adapt to the needs. I mean, we were just talking about how you're taking on and off hats based on what someone needs at that particular time. Well, That's humanizing. That's the adapting to the emotions, the motives of the person you're talking to at that time, and being able to quickly shift into something that will help them get to the next level, get to the next step, and ultimately see results over time.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, kind of what you said before about like round or square peg in round hole or vice versa. It's the, um, it's like people find something that allowed them to be successful and then people reach out and they want to do it. So they say like, they make the mistake, I would say, of saying this is the only way.

Yes.

It's great if I'm like, this worked for me. And you're like, I want to work with you. Cool. And then I'm working with you and it's like, I did it through blogging and you start blogging and you're like, I don't like this. It doesn't feel right.

Uh, exactly.

And it, and then I'm like, okay, well, I guess the good coach would say, Well, let's try an avenue that you do like, and you're like, well, I love Instagram. I have a small following on Instagram. I'm active. I enjoy putting out content on Instagram. And then you apply those similar strategies that did work just to a different platform, you know, and then you can kind of tailor it, I guess. So I think that that is kind of the difference of not like forcing someone into a little hole, like based on what was successful for them per se, it's kind of being able to adapt. And keep maybe like the principles of what worked for that person, but apply it to your unique situation, your unique life as well.

Exactly, exactly. For example, I did work with a coach where she only recommended I do a Facebook group, and they just at the time never felt right. Like, it never felt like me, and I really wanted to do Instagram, and it Yeah, like you said, it does. That's such a good example of how, okay, it worked for her and she's trying to have me mimic exactly what worked for her, but it doesn't necessarily work for me because I'm different. Right. I have different needs, different emotions, different motivations. Yeah.

Um, I think like when it comes to like business, for example, especially as a coach, that there are just underlying things that no matter what platform you're on, it's not gonna change. It's about Connecting with people or getting discovered and then inspiring them in some way by leading with value and then inviting them and making an offer to work with you and building a relationship. But you can do that through blogging. You can do it through YouTube. You can do it through Instagram. I think it's those principles of whatever you're hiring this person for to like pay attention to because I've hired a lot of coaches and then they, you know, it just, they taught me something that kind of threw me into a box. It didn't work for me. I didn't get great results, but I still learned from it. And I looked at that, and I looked at all the different coaches that I kind of worked with, and I saw common trends of what did work. And that's what led me to finding my own kind of path that, yep, worked for me. So no matter what, I still win, you know, even if it wasn't the best investment. Um, yeah, one thing that does bother me, and, uh, you, uh, it kind of makes it like coaching cringy, which you mentioned you kind of want to talk about, and it's true I was in a Facebook group one time and this person posts inside of it and he's like, I want to like automate my coaching business. And that's, I'm like, sweet. Like I might be able to help this guy. So I look at it and I was like, what are you thinking? Like, like getting discovered, like bringing people to an email list, nurturing a relationship, et cetera. And he's like, no, I want to automate the coaching itself, like with AI or something. And I'm like, What? I'm like, dude, get out of here. What are you even talking about?

And it was just like, oh, I was like, you can't do that because that's not coaching.

That's not being like authentic. That's not what the point of coaching is. And that what makes it cringy in my opinion is that there are a lot of great coaches out there and there's a ton of people who just see it as a dollar sign, like easy money. Oh, you can just get people to pay you for some stuff and they just kind of slap to things together half-assedly. They don't care about the craft and they just see it as an opportunity to make money. And that's where it kind of gets cringy. And that's what I saw with this specific person of just like, you can't automate the coaching. You can automate the client acquisition process and the sales process, you know, to get people in the door.

Absolutely. Yeah. Work harder or work smarter, not harder, but you can't make coaching a robot. Yeah.

What kind of makes coaching feel a little cringy to you? That's just my—

Oh, so AI is a big topic right now, right? I'm glad you touched on that because I've seen that a lot. I've seen that a lot. I actually, I get so much spam email and one of them was saying, get your AI coach today. And I just roll my eyes at it because it's not real. Like you said, it's not authentic, it's not a person, it's not human. And I'm all about humanizing it. So no, I would not want to do AI. So that's one. AI is making a lot of things cringy. It's also helping in a lot of ways too. So it's, it's kind of a, you know, flip of the coin there. But other ways it's cringy is, I mean, we touched on it throughout this whole conversation of that it is being dehumanized. It is just not clear on what it is. So people are— you got trained and certified, you did the right path. And I, I'm confident in saying that's the right path because there are people who just kind of wake up one day and they're like, oh, I'm going to be a life coach, charge a mortgage payment to do it. I'm, and I'm pretty good at sales and marketing, so I'm gonna make a ton of money doing it. And they do, but they're all, they're all either just doing what worked for them like we talked about, or they're copying somebody else and they're just like copycats of like Tony Robbins or Marie Forleo or, you know, all those top people, Rachel Hollis. And, um, I don't know, I heard of one today named Melanie something or other, uh, that they just copy what they're doing and they're making money doing it, and people are leaving left in the dust and just getting burned. And it's, it's becoming an anecdotal cringe topic because people are like, oh, coaching, yuck, that's gross. People are, you know, coaching isn't good for you. It's, oh, my friend spent a mortgage payment and she didn't get anything from it. And it's happening a lot. And this is the type— I mean, you can tell I'm getting fired up. Like, these are the things that I want to combat within the coaching industry, because if you hire the right coach, if like, you know, like we started the conversation, you have the right coach, it is so, so, so powerful in changing your life. And it's so impactful. You will reach goals and dreams so much faster than self-help, trying to do it on your own. And it's because it's such a cringy topic and a cringy thing now, um, it's— people aren't doing it and they're afraid to do it. And they're, they're afraid on so many levels. They're afraid they're gonna be judged. They're afraid they're to be vulnerable. They're afraid to be swindled. And, um, that's what I want to change big time in the coaching industry.

Yeah, I love that. I think that there needs to be more care in the industry.

More care.

But like, you know, I mean, I learned the business model that I teach people. I, I learned from mentors and I saw they were all doing the same thing and they taught me how to do it and it worked for me. And, uh, when I was doing like my productivity coaching, that's where I started to like sell courses and book calls and use systems to run my business for me, kind of. But like, I, I kind of did like copy them and I feel like you kind of do have to copy in a way, but like, I still have the background of like actually coaching and I learned from these people. I applied it and I taught from my experience. And I think that that's kind of the, the missing piece, I guess, that I would say.

It's the care and investment in someone else's success.

Yeah.

And it's also the, the training. It's learning the neuroscience behind it. It's the, the brain, the, how we operate, how we tick, how our brain works, how our bodies connect to that, how, um, how to ask the powerful questions, how to hold someone accountable, and how to hold space and listen and like actively listen. And it's, it's a, it's a craft, like you said. It's a practice, and it's— no one's perfect at it day one, but you gotta, you know, keep working at it and helping people and just seeing the kind of results that they're getting and just continuing to shift people in that direction towards the future they want versus just being like, hey, what do we want help with today? I mean, one of the biggest things I hate is Groundhog Day coaching. I don't know if you've experienced this.

Well, maybe. I don't know.

What is it? It's like being in a coaching session and the coach just doesn't even remember what you talked about the time before.

Oh geez.

And they're like, what do you wanna talk about today?

How much did I pay you?

Well, yeah, I mean, I will tell you 3 out of the 4 coaches I worked with did that. And it's, it's just insane to me that that's just happening.

I've, I've definitely experienced that 100% and I'm kind of like, Like, I want you to be my guide. That's kind of what, like, I mean, I know I have to, like, I'm in charge of my life.

Yeah.

Yeah. Ownership.

I need to, like, grow my business or deepen my own relationships. Like, I can't expect a coach to do that for me, but like, they can keep you on track and guide you and have every conversation that you have build off one another. And that's why I take rigorous notes myself.

But right, exactly. The building off it. You're exactly right. I'm glad you touched on that. That it's, yes, you are the owner of your life and you take account, you know, take your own accountability too. But a good coach is invested.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, going to help guide you.

Yeah. I experienced a, um, we're going definitely over, but it's okay.

Sorry. No, it's okay.

I'm into this and I think it's important things to touch on, especially if someone's considering like hearing a bunch of fake guru stuff and then they're like, I don't know. So hopefully we can shed some light. But I've invested in many coaches where they didn't really— they overpromised, underdelivered, you know? And I even like put myself into the program and did the work and stuff and then it didn't really happen. I don't want to blame a coach or anything, but like they kind of like did me wrong in a way and then they gave me access to courses and things like that. And I was like, well, cool, at least I can like study this. And it was just like an overwhelming amount of information they gave me as like a value add. And, um, then they like canceled the contract. We're like, this has never happened to me before. And I was like, that's— what are you talking about? Like, you've never had someone not get great results from your program? Like, it wasn't that great of a pro— they had me like spamming people every single day in DMs. My account was getting shut down. I was like, this doesn't feel right, you know, this is bad. But I was doing the work, you know, and they wanted me to do like 100 DMs per day. And I was getting— my Facebook account got shut down. I sent them a screenshot and was like, this keeps happening because I'm spamming with the same message. And they're like, oh, just move over to LinkedIn now. Or go after— if it happens on LinkedIn, go over to Instagram and get your 100. And I was like, what are you talking about? And then afterwards, they, uh, they just like completely cut me off. And like took away all the courses and everything. And I had invested $11,000 into the program.

Oh yeah, it was.

And I was like, I was like, the fact that I paid 11 grand and I didn't even get like a PDF resource, I didn't get anything that could potentially help me like continue to grow my business. That just like put a real sour taste in my mouth. And it, it almost made me kind of question like the coaching industry, which is why I care about this topic. So when I work with someone, I have a course that I sell. It's an evergreen, like, funnel to it for people to take at their own pace because some people are, they're ready to put in the work, not ready to make the investment. And I still provide, like, email support. I'm happy to message them and give that support in some way, just on a smaller scale. But if I work with someone one-on-one, they get access to that course. And then ideally, if you follow everything, it should take about 4 months to build out the program that I have to build out like an evergreen funnel and build out your online business to where it can work for you. But if someone like life gets in the way and it goes to 6 months, like I tell people, I'll work with you until it's done, you know, so like it's an investment, but I'm going to stick with you until it gets done. We may not have to meet every single week, but if someone like invested one payment that covers the price of my course, I'll give them access to the course and I'll just give them the course. Because you already paid for it, you know, if you've paid like, uh, you know, $1,000 or something down, then, and the course is like a couple hundred bucks, then you should at least be able to keep the course because you invested that money. So I don't know, it's just that I, I, I want to be a shining light, especially in like the business space, because there's, I feel like in that space, people want to grow. They're like, I have to invest to learn this stuff. And then they get screwed over. So I want to be kind of a person amongst other people that I do know that are like the good ones.

Yes. Yeah. And oh my God, so many things out of that. Yeah. Your story is the exact reason why I started Meshwell. Yeah, the exact— because I've had similar— I mean, obviously we've had similar situations happen, but these are the gaps I was talking about that the charging mortgage payments, the dehumanization, the, the lack of human care and just disregard for you as a human being. And they're just like, just do whatever we tell you to do, and then they just cut you off like that. Like, that's just insane. Yeah, that happened. And mesh— I mean more power to people. You, you could charge high ticket, charge whatever you want, but Meshwell will never be that mortgage payment per month. Um, it's for those people who maybe want to give coaching a try for the first time, and, and they just, you know, want to make sure they're making the right choice, um, using it as a springboard into the, the true dream that they want to create. And it's, it it just baffles my mind how wild, wild west it is out there and people are just paying that and getting burned like you described and oh, it just breaks my heart. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, it's pretty wild. It is like the wild, wild west, but it's okay. You know, it helped me grow. I learned what not to do. I—

Right. Exactly.

Get better as a coach and provide a better service for clients. So, you know, like either you, you win or you learn instead of I didn't really lose, even though it did put me into debt. But then I used my business with the things that I learned to climb out of debt. So, you know, it's like money's energy. It is. It's just, uh, it's— yeah, but there are people, I guess, if you're listening to this, I share that story because like there are people who will, they'll just screw you over and take advantage of you even if it's not the best fit. Um, and unfortunately it is intentional, or maybe they don't even think it's intentional, but then they think they're in the right. I don't know, it's gaslighting. There's so much stuff.

Oh, so much gaslighting happening. Yeah, it's crazy.

But anyway, we're going to have to wrap it up. Yeah, it's gone over and that's okay. This is a very fun interview. Where can people learn more about you? Where can they connect with, with you and learn about Meshwell and all of that?

Well, if you want a human, personal, affordable, and just high standard, high quality coaching experience, come to Meshwell, meshwell.co. We care, we are invested, we are trained, um, and you'll be matched to the right coach based on who you are and your goal. It's personal experience, it's like no other. Um, come check us out. And if coaching isn't necessarily something you're, you know, it's on your roadmap but it's maybe not your next stop, We do also have a brand new community called Mingle where you can come in and you can talk to all our coaches and you can start breaking the silence and asking for help, at least to just get those conversations and those actions going and be supported by other community members as well. So there's MeshWell coaching, and then we also have a new community, Mingle. We offer membership programs for those who maybe just, you know, have different needs. One session, 3 sessions, or, you know, join our community and we'll be happy to help you.

Beautiful. Very cool. And I'm, I'm guarantee you that if I went through Meshwell and thought it was the perfect coach and then it's like, nah, maybe it's not, I can always just reach out and then you would rematch me with someone else, right?

Oh yeah. Yeah. You get, you get matched with 2 or 3 coaches and you pick who resonates with you most, but it's matched based on who you are and what you want to do.

What a great idea.

Awesome.

You check out meshwell.co, put links down in the description so you can click on it and just go straight over to the website, etc. Take what you learned here, apply something that you thought was valuable. I hope this was insightful for whoever's listening.

Yeah.

And pretty much just take action towards starting your business. Don't, don't look at my story and be like, oh my God, I shouldn't even try. Like, still try. You may get burned. It might happen, but Meshwell is a great place to get started, to start building your dream life really is what it all comes down to. So hope you add value from today. Check out meshwell.co and we will see you in the next one.

Thank you. And James, thank you for what you do for people because clearly you, you, you care and are invested and, and you're doing great impactful work. So thank you.

Awesome. Thank you. All right, check out Corinne. Link's in the description. See you in the next one.

Aah!