“He just turned 50 & we have NO savings. I’m panicking!”

When I have money, I want to do something with it right away. It's very uncomfortable for it to just.

Sit there and take a step back. Because if I know that number, that panic, it would really hurt me inside.

Today, meet Kate and Drew. Kate is a 43 year old mother of two and a homeschool teacher. Her husband, Drew, is a 50 year old college professor.

This is so stressful for me. My whole energy around money is stressful.

It feels like we're taking one step forward and two steps back.

Kate is a worrier. She's terrified they haven't saved enough for retirement. Drew is an avoider. He's completely hands off with the money.

I am more driven. I take the lead on it. He doesn't want to be bothered with that aspect.

I've backed away all this time, more for selfish reasons, to protect something inside myself.

Together they overspent. And after 25 years of marriage, they have amassed a crushing amount of debt.

I don't know how to get out of that hole. Having a plan is non existent to me.

When I look back, I feel like we made so many financial mistakes and I don't want to do it alone.

Can they ever pay off this mountain of debt? Or will the vicious cycle of overspending continue? Well, let's find out.

I was sitting right here in this, this chair and I'm, I think I was looking at my finances and he was out with our son at a soccer game before we left. I was like, all right, just get one thing at the concession thing. You're good. And then he texted me while he was there, a picture of our son with like a sa face saying, can we get another like thing of fries? It was like, oh, no, he didn't. I think that for us things always are going fine until like those moments where there's a trigger in that sense where I realize I think we're on the same page, but we're not.

Out of curiosity, how did you reply to the text message?

How did I reply?

I think you just said flat out no. And that was. That was the answer. All I needed to see.

And that I didn't like either because I feel like we're in this parent child dynamic that just. I don't want that with him. I'm like a gatekeeper. And it's like. And a child being like, mommy, can I have this? And it's like, it's as if he doesn't know what's going on in our financial picture. I felt like he shouldn't have even asked Knowing what our numbers are.

Drew, I'm curious what was going on for you when you sent that text message?

I guess trying to take advantage of that small situation and tried to get some extra fries out of that, knowing that our budget is. Is tight. Just to be able to go to the. The soccer game with my son was. Was a lot, and it was nice, and I just wanted that little extra treat. Sometimes I try to be funny. Maybe not in the best way, but comedy is my way of how I kind of handle things. I dress it up and hide it as a comedic act.

Drew, what do you make of Kate bringing up this parent child dynamic?

I don't really like the dynamic to be like that. I feel like I should be free to do or get whatever I want with our money because it is ours as well as Kate. She can do what she wants with the money as well. I think. I think where the disconnect is, we have an issue with our finance. That's not good. We have debt, a lot of debt. We have some issues we have to deal with, and I can't be as free with the money as I'd like.

Hey, you mentioned that you haven't seen eye to eye on money for a while. How long would you say you haven't been on the same page, financially speaking?

I started dating him when I was 18, almost 19. Our spending habits were very different. He's a saver, and so he's more conservative with money, and I'm a spender. So when I started making money, we actually had a joint credit card. Even though we were, I think, just still dating. Right. We lived together, and so we would tally up our expenses individually and pay them and every credit card bill. I remember being like, oh, my God. Like, I wasn't. I wasn't keeping track of things, and it would. You know, the credit card bill would be so long, and he just kept his spending just very minimal. Could pay it off very easily. Not an issue. So we were very different in how we saw money then. And then it evolved.

When you got married, how'd you decide how much to save for the wedding?

I went in thinking my budget was going to be 25,000.

How much was it in the end? How much?

Oh, 50. 55,000.

Yeah, that's. That's about exactly what happens. 2.5 to 3x of whatever people come up with first.

Exactly.

It happens. I mean, it happened to me. It happens to everybody. Even if you know the principle, you're still. You can know it all and you're still. It's going to happen to you for the most part. There are some people who are very disciplined. Okay, great. So where did you come up with the extra 30,000 bucks for that wedding?

My parents are very generous. Very generous in a multitude of ways. So my mom was upfront that she was going to help me pay.

Your parents still help you with finances?

From time to time? Yes.

How does that work? Like, they write you a check? Do you call them up? How does it work?

This is where I'm like, I'm 43. I should not be doing this. So it's in various ways.

What's the most recent way that they've helped you?

They paid for an entire vacation for my family to go to Universal Studios. I was very grateful. I was very clear to my kids, we would not be on this vacation if it wasn't for Nana and Papa.

I noticed that when you talk about your parents giving you money, there seems to be a little bit of guilt or shame.

I'm having a full body reaction right now because on one hand, I'm so grateful for it, but at the same time, I should be being able to manage my own finances. I should be able to take my own kids on vacation. I should be more financially independent.

Well, thank you for sharing that. I have to tell you that I have recently started asking people about how they get financial help from their parents. And there's a lot of shame, a lot of guilt, a lot of complex emotions because so many people want to help their own children.

I actually just said to Drew, I am. I want to be able to do this for our kids.

Wait, what? So you want to put them in the same position you are?

I want to be financially abundant that I could give, be generous with them and take our grandchildren on vacation.

It is interesting though, isn't it, that so many of the things that make us feel bad are the exact same things that we want to recreate for either ourselves or our children. Drew, any surprises? As you heard Kate explain that dynamic with her parents?

Her parents are very generous to us and especially our. Our kids. And they've always been there to help us out whenever we needed.

What's that like for you as the son in law?

I'm very gracious that they can help us out because again, I don't like that feeling of being behind the eight ball and being in a lot of debt. Like, if they can help out and maybe give our kids a trip, I appreciate that. And I know I'm not in that position to do that and someone else can. Something that's more important to me than money is time, and my kids aren't getting any younger. So if they can go to Disney World or Universal and someone can help out, I want them to take that opportunity.

I want to interrupt here to share an early clue I'm picking up on. Kate and Drew have admitted they have fallen into a parent child dynamic. Kate is policing the money, and Drew is constantly asking her for permission for small purchases. And you can tell when Drew is asking for French fries, it's not really about the fries. What Drew is doing is absolving himself of responsibility when it comes to their debt problem, leaving Kate to shoulder the burden alone. The challenge here is to get Drew to stop merely being a passenger so that he and Kate can work together as a team. But first, let's get into the specifics of their numbers.

How long have you been in debt?

I would probably say close to 10 years, maybe eight to 10 years. I think I felt the debt more once we moved. We were in a condominium, and then we bought a foreclosure property. We fixed it up, and that's where I really felt the real hit of the debt becoming what felt insurmountable.

Out of curiosity, why'd you move?

We were in a thousand square foot, two bedroom home. Our second child was 18 months. So it started to feel crowded because our children are four and a half years apart and they were sharing a room. And I had my parents in my ear also saying, you need to get another house. That house is too small. My husband did not want to get a new house and I, I really pushed for it.

What did you say? Do you remember the exact words?

I think it was like, we can't stay here forever.

That's a good one. That's. That, that, that resonates. It rings true. We can't stay here forever, therefore. What's the end of that sentence?

Therefore, we need to start looking for a new house now. Even though we didn't have money saved up, that's where my parents helped out again. They gave us another chunk of money to put a down payment on this house so we can carry two mortgages while we renovated this house.

How much did they give you for the down payment?

100 grand.

All right, so they give you 100 grand, put in the new house, some renovations, et cetera, and that is when the serious debt started. Is that right?

Yeah. I was thinking we got a deal. You know, this isn't a real estate investment. We're going to put money into it and, you know, we'll put more equity in. I hypothetically was like, oh, we'll just do the kitchen and the bathrooms and It'll cost about 50 grand. Yeah, well, we had to add another zero.

What? What? Is that an exaggeration?

I wish it was.

Hold on. Just tell me the full number you spent on renovations.

We did two, so it was about $525,000. $525,000 on renovations on what we thought was a deal.

How is this possible? Like, as a guy who's used to exceeding the numbers, I get it. I get 50 turns into 200. I get it. But 500, how did that happen?

When we first bought this house, Drew was up in the bathroom demoing it by himself while I had an 18 month old and a 4 and a 4 and year old even come home and say I barely made a dent. And I'm like, oh my gosh, how are we going to do this? So we started looking for contractors. Now, in my naivete, I did not do my due diligence. I wound up hiring a general contractor who wanted to charge me hourly. And my mom's like, what are you doing? It was a really bad mistake. Before you knew it, it snowballed so bad that the entire place was a shell. It became a brand new house. Basically, there was so much going on at the time at the renovation that I wasn't on top of our finances and wondering why our credit card bill was getting higher and I didn't have the funds to pay it.

Here are two clues that I notice. First off, Kate is the money person in this relationship. But it's becoming clear that she is not especially skilled at managing money. And the second thing is that Kate has admitted to being impulsive. Earlier in their relationship, Kate overspent on credit cards. Then she overspent on their wedding by $30,000. Finally, it's a house where they overspent by 500,000 dol. And of course you'll notice that the rationale conveniently changes.

Now it's for the kids. Meanwhile, Drew is checked out.

You can see that this dynamic will become a bigger and bigger problem.

How much of this is something that happened to you versus how much of this is something that you yourself chose?

We created this a hundred percent. I mean, the life happens. But I think we set up a very precarious situation. I can see how impulsive I've been with money, and I'll just follow a gut feeling. And I've been very lucky up until this point. Like I was able to do those risky things. And ride a thin line and always got away with it until now.

That's usually how it goes. I applaud that you take responsibility. I think that that's incredible. I always say we've got to be honest with ourselves, honest with the people around us, especially if we want to make a change and we want to.

Live a rich life.

And I'm curious, between the two of you, how do you apportion responsibility?

I think for the first one, I felt a lot. I felt very responsible because I pushed him into getting this house when he wasn't ready.

How much did the house end up costing?

It was like $355,000.

Okay, so just so the audience knows, can you just explain the concept of equity real quick? Is this how it works? 355 plus 500 means your house is worth $855,000. Is that the way it works?

Well, in this market, we're lucky that it kind of does.

It's totally my example. But that's not the point. If we take this irrational housing market, historically high, out of place. That's not how you do the math, people. But in this case, it actually was. Can we talk finances? Because I've heard some big numbers thrown around. I would like to know, in your own words, starting with Drew, what is the state of your finances today?

It feels like we're taking one step forward and two steps back.

Kate, how about you?

The first word that came to me was dire.

Dire.

Wow.

That's quite different, isn't it? Dire versus one step forward, two steps back.

When he turned 50, I had clothes to a panic attack where I realized something's got to change. So all last year, I knew that we needed to be more mindful of our spending, so I restricted a lot all year. And then towards the end of the year, he said he was going to get a big check in January because he was going to work. He worked even during the winter break. I got a little excited and wound up going a little crazy for Christmas.

How much did you spend on Christmas? Just bottom line it for me, eight grand.

That freaked me out. So I. I felt out of control with money at that point and was having panics. What did I do? Like, we have all this debt. That huge check could have gone to debt. What did I do?

This is not unique. This is like tens of millions of Americans do exactly the same thing. And the funny thing is, they do it every single year. Would we. You would think we would learn. Oh, no. Because it's all episodic. Seems to me That I actually find it comforting when I discover that I am basically copying what other people like to do. Like, I find that really comforting, because if millions of other people do the same thing I'm doing, then there's probably hope. If we know that, then we can begin to make a change. What do you say we take a look at the numbers? Drew, can you read off the word in bold and then the full number next to it?

Assets, 743,300. Investments, 532,000. 210. Savings, 15,000. Debt, 480,548. Total net worth, 809,962.

All right, what do you all think about those numbers?

The lack of savings is concerning. And the amount of debt is concerning.

I agree.

I also feel like our investments should be higher, given our ages.

Let's clarify some of the details here. So you have a $715,000 house. Investments are at $532,000. Savings at $15,000. By the way, I note that you wrote it's not emergency savings. This is for future monthly expenses. So you essentially have zero emergency savings. Okay. And debt is $350,000 is a mortgage. $130,000 is the home equity line of credit, and then $2,000 for a business credit card. Kate, can you read the gross monthly income to me? Combined?

$16,667.

$200,000 a year. Correct. Okay. Did you all know that that's how much you make?

Yes. I track all of his paychecks because his income is variable.

Okay. Drew, did you know you make 200,000?

Yes.

Wow. All right, you know what? I gotta start giving a round of applause for people who even know their own income. Okay. It's so rare. I'll take it. Take the win.

We'll take the win. We need one.

Can I ask you guys a question? So you sent in a CSP, which had everything done on an annual basis.

I know.

You know the CSP is designed on a monthly basis.

Yes.

And you told my producer that you were not going to do the monthly. Why?

I was like, how do I do this monthly? With the way that I, like, manage our money? It felt confusing and frustrating for my job.

My pay varies greatly. As I teach fall and spring, I get a consistent paycheck when it comes summertime, depending on how many places I teach, I make a huge chunk of money bi weekly. So it kind of throws off, I guess, the calculation of saving consistently month by month, because sometimes the amount is lower. But in the summer, the amounts are much higher.

Ah, the old question. What do I do if my income is variable? Honestly, I'm kind of sick of this question. I get it every single week and I've Talked about it 500 times in my book, in prior videos, online, everywhere. How do you deal with irregular income if you're an Uber driver or a freelancer? What's really happening here is that the answer is available. You could literally search Ramit Sethi Irregular income and find the answer. But what's really happening here is that people are using this question as an excuse to not take action. Allow me to be direct. You are not a special snowflake.

Don't.

Just because you have one seemingly unique situation does not make you different than everybody else. Don't use any scenario as an excuse not to take action with your money. My wish for you is to become aggressive, to become bold. To say, I'm not going to let anything get in my way. I'm going to knock it down and get to my rich life. Now, if you want help, if you want to learn how to deal with your money, specifically join my money coaching program, I'll put the link right here. But it's time to stop using the same old question or over and over as an excuse to not move forward. We're past that and I don't want to hear this question anymore. One last thing. Kate says she wants to be precise.

Yeah, me too.

But if you're being precise, how are you overspending my $8,000? Remember that the point of a CSP is not precision. The point is to actually see the big picture. So I need them to zoom out and recognize the need for change.

I ask you an honest question. Is the way that you have been managing your money working? No.

In the sense that it feels stressful. And the only vision we have is to pay off debt, which is not really the greatest vision.

44 and 50 years old in $480,000 of debt. What I see, Kate, is you've done it your way for a long time. But what you have done, even though you may have positive intentions, has not gotten you the positive outcome you want. And even when you have the chance to speak to me, you struggle to adapt to a different approach to money. I've spoken to lots of couples. I don't think I've ever seen a couple put it in it annual format. What does that tell you?

I couldn't see it any other way. I am stuck in my own I.

Created and more importantly, your relationship dynamic around money is stuck in that Just think of it. What kind of dynamics can we already identify? You said one already, Kate. Parent child dynamic. That's the one where we have the please, can I have some money for a treat? And the other partner says, no, you can't. And it is toxic to a sexual intimate relationship. It also disempowers one partner, both partners. It doesn't set you as financial equals. And on and on and on. Okay, there's so many dynamics at play here, but it all shows up in the csp. The CSP is going to tell us the four key numbers and help us see the big picture. Right now, I don't think the two of you know the big picture. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that you are lost on the big picture. Fair.

Correct.

And yet the over need for precision, which you actually, genuinely believe you need to do, is actually what's causing part of these problems. If you're really honest, does it even work? Like, you tried to be precise about how much your renovation was going to cost. You blew past that by hundreds of thousands. Tried to be precise about the wedding costs, blew past that. Try to be precise about these numbers. It's not working anyway. So my philosophy is, if we're going to choose between different ways, why don't we just do it my way?

So I agree with you that we need something new and it's scary.

It is scary. It's scary to give up control. I'm example number one because I run a business and every entrepreneur is a control freak and they have to systematically learn or have control stripped from them or they will go out of business. In your finances, you have a lot of, like this quarter we do this, but in summer, for two months we do that. And do you see why having all these one offs makes it very, very complicated to create a basic flowing system?

Yes. And it makes it hard for me to see what we actually can afford and what we can't sometimes correct.

So that is what the CSP is designed to help you do, is to standardize everything. It's almost like, look, when you drive to, I don't know, grandma's house, at some points you're going 20 miles an hour, at some points you're going 65 miles an hour. But we can say it's going to take roughly 65 minutes per 60 miles. Ballpark fair. Yeah. That's what we're looking to do here. Even if we're off by 5%, it's okay. What's the lesson we've learned so far.

Kate and Then, Drew, that we should be operating monthly.

I didn't intentionally jump to making changes. I actually wanted to slow down. I wanted to help them understand that, first, their system is way too complicated, and second, they're not working as a team in a relationship with money and with each other. You can't just have one person pulling everything and the other person just being the passenger. It's got to be both people. And when both people are committed to a rich life, it's actually amazing how fast you can make changes. Now back to our conversation with Drew and Kate about their spending and savings habits.

When I have money, I. I want to do something with it right away. It's very uncomfortable for it to just sit there.

Are you impulsive in other parts of life?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, even when I. When we bought our first condo, I bought it. He didn't. We didn't plan that either. I just got tired of renting and said, I'm looking for a house. He didn't want to buy that. His house either. So I bought it myself.

A recurring pattern. I know this is, like, blowing my mind. Like, to me, it is inconceivable to trip and fall and buy a house. And you would be so shocked how many couples, they literally say, we were out for brunch on a Saturday. We decided to walk past a couple open houses. And then things move so fast, and then suddenly we had a house. I'm like, dude, it takes me a month to decide if I should sign up for, like, Brit box on, you know, which is like, $7 a month. It happens multiple times. Tell me if I'm correct or not. You two struggle saying no to your kids, right?

I feel like I say no a lot. That's why when they really do want something, I'm like, I'll figure out how I can make it happen. I think I say no a lot of the times. And then sometimes I think my old childhood wounds come in. Every now and then, they take a little peek.

I want them to have everything I didn't have. I don't want them to miss out and on and on and on.

And then other times, I'm like, I know they're going to be okay. They're more than blessed, you know?

Right, right. And then, Drew, you know, we should also acknowledge that the two of you are not on the same page. If Drew is not only saying yes most of the time, but then even, like, texting with the sad face with the kid, it's, in a way, undermining the financial Values that the two of you are trying to set, which really says you don't have aligned financial values.

Yes.

Let's look at the numbers. Your fixed costs. Read that number to me please, Kate.

79%.

Your investments. What does that say?

5%.

Drew, what do you got? You got any pre tax investments?

I have a 403B at work.

How much you put in?

I put in 5% and my employer matches it with 10%.

Your employer matches it 2 to 1. Yep. What the. You know how good that is, right? They put it. You put in 10k, they put in 20k. So you're investing 30k a year pre tax. Your savings are at 9% and you have like what the. You have like 10 sub savings accounts.

Well, they're not really savings accounts. This is where in the summer when we get those chunks of money. I put these things aside.

Conceptually, it's good to save for things you know are coming. Okay, great. And. And then your guilt free spending is all messed up. It says negative 14%. I know that's not true because you all went to a soccer game recently and we're trying to get extra pretzels. So how much do you think you're spending on guilt free spending per month? Are you losing money?

800 to 1000.

So far from looking at the CSP, my guess is that you are probably spending more than you make every single month. That's my guess. And the reason I say that is that you don't have anything under fixed costs for miscellaneous. So typically we add 15%, which in your case would be a lot. Okay. That would be like 1500 bucks. Yeah. You'd be at 91% fixed cost. You're broke. What's interesting about this is are still investing $30,000 a year, but you're effectively losing money every single month. Yes. I also want to acknowledge, you know, you have no emergency fund. You're simply saving for expenses that are going to come up. In other words, you are in trouble in several ways. I'm sharing all this not to bring you down, but rather just to level set expectations here. Kate, you use the word dire. Drew, what do you think about that word?

That's a pretty strong word. It certainly grabs my attention. I never really get very nervous about money because I said earlier, you know, Kate said, I'm more conservative. I won't, you know, go beyond what I think in my head. A certain number would be. That's kind of like my limit point.

You're in $130,000 HELOC. You have a $350,000 mortgage and not enough money for retirement. So this thing about it's in my head, you know, I'm not sure that's effective. And also you mentioned I never really get stressed out by money. Is it possible you don't get stressed out because your wife is the one handling the money day to day?

When she tells me where we're at and I know bothers her, like how much we're in debt, for instance, or how much we owe or some other cost has come up and I can see the panic in her. And for me, I kind of take a step back because if I know that panic and if I know that number, it, it would really, it would really hurt me inside.

That hurt is being felt. It's just that Kate is taking that on instead of you taking care of.

Our money and having to decide what to do with it on my own feels lonely. That's something I'd rather us create together. Because even though it's really hard right now, us doing it together would make this hard time feel a lot better.

And when you say I take a step back. She's trying to take a step forward and talk about it. That's why she wrote in here. And you are taking a step back.

I don't know how to get out of that hole. It's something I've never experienced before. So having a plan to get out of it is non existent to me. Do I need to make more money? Do I need to get another job? Does Katie to get a job? I mean, what is the solution?

Why is it that every couple who is in debt debt that they themselves put themselves into. Why is it that 100% of the time their first solution is we got to earn more money?

They don't have to change. You don't have to change your behavior with money. It's easier to go hustle of making more than it is to face the fact of like having to say no to things. Having to say no to your kids.

Correct. And to each other and to yourself. Fact is you make 200k, make 300k, you think your life would considerably change.

I don't think anything would change because we're going to have the same behavior, the same patterns with money. I'm going to still be impulsive and have the same spending, feeling guilty about it, restricting spending and then when and Drew's going to have the same, you know, not wanting to say no to me or the kids.

Your money psychology is not tight. It's not dialed in even from the fact that you can't simplify your numbers down to a monthly number that shows it's real slippery and loose. There's all these like mental accounting tricks that are being played. Oh, sometimes I use this card and that this thing comes in December. So we put money. Da, da, da, da. It's sloppy and it's actually more complicated than mine. Yours should be simple. That is what we're going to start developing a set of principles for you. Out of curiosity, how often do you talk about your money values with your kids?

We're very clear with the kids about debt and how, how we made mistakes that we don't want them to repeat it. Before that, I realized I wasn't talking at all. I wanted them to think that there was no problems because I grew up with a lot of stress around money and my. I vivid. Have vivid memories of my mom saying she didn't have the money. I didn't want my kids to feel that. And I now realize that I hurt them more than help them by repeating that.

Drew, what do you teach them about money saving?

I mean, I guess that would be my thing. I also, you know, do teach them, you know, with some money that you do make, you know, it's okay to spend it. I don't want them to, you know, be worried that, you know, they can't buy something and feel like they have to restrict themselves. Don't buy something you can't afford. Which I know sounds hypocritical, but it's.

Kids love hypocritical parents. They never make an example of that. They never say a thing. Right?

My, my son throws it in our face all the time. We could have this and this if you didn't have to go buy this house.

This kid is the best.

Wow.

He's like. You ever sat down and seriously considered all your phantom costs? I'm talking about all of it. Opportunity cost as well. Did you factor that in? Man, I never heard a 10 year old just rip their parents to shreds over a 30 year compound. Interest chart. From now on. This isn't the Ramit Sethi podcast anymore. I'm going to have a co host. Little does everybody know, my co host is 10 years old, but that co host is gonna rip all you future guests to shreds. You thought I was mean? No, no, no. I'm the nice one now because the 10 year old is coming on to just let loose. All right, so when I asked, what money principles do you have in your family?

We don't have strong Values in place that we are teaching the kids. It's more like, I don't want you to make the mistakes that I did. Energy, you know? And because my husband is not really involved in it, I don't feel like we're doing it together, as this is our family values.

In order to change that energy, we got to come up with some core values, some principles that will help us cut through the million decisions we make on an annual basis. Anybody want to come up with a few core values with money? I'll give you one of mine just to kick things off. In our family, we fight for simplicity.

I actually love that because I tend to be more of a minimalist in general.

I want to feel proud of the money I make and be able to spend it in ways that I can enjoy it.

We spend money on high quality food because I value health.

Nice. Now that's a value. What I like about that is that fits your family. Hey, Drew, how about the involvement in terms of both partners with money?

I want to work together, an equal partnership with building our financial goals together so that we're no longer on opposite pages, going in different directions. For us to work together, you would have to be equally responsible and trusting each other with, you know, we're not going to make any decisions that would hurt the other.

It means you have to shoulder some of the financial load. Okay. And I think. I don't know if Kate has explicitly asked for your help. Kate, have you asked Drew to participate?

I literally, like, begged him because I've said, this is so stressful for me. He's such a great listener. But he will continue the same pattern.

You know, I've given speeches to Google. I've had a show on Netflix. But the one thing I am too afraid to do is to speak to a group of fucking kids. Because during COVID I got an invitation.

To speak to kids, and I pulled.

Out the best of Ramit Sethi. My best stories, my best jokes. These kids just sat there, just blinking at me.

No response.

It looked like their face was carved out of stone. I tried everything. Zero response. And that's when I learned teenagers are ruthless and I am afraid of them. Isn't it haunting that Kate and Drew's son is essentially roasting them for how they treat their finances? And isn't it also interesting that their response is to simply ignore it and keep doing what they've been doing? That's how so many of us are, me included, when we have something that is wrong in our life, we ignore it. Maybe we know we need to go see the dentist or the physical therapist or we should take our partner out on a date because it's.