How to always finish what you start -- with Lisa Lahey

Hey, it's Ramit Sethi here from I Will Teach youh Be Rich, Growth Lab and Brain Trust. There are so many things that we want to do, we genuinely want to do. Want to lose weight, gain muscle, start a business, have better relationships. There's a million things, but it's very tough. And we don't just need another checklist of items to do. A lot of times it's our mental barriers, it's our invisible scripts. It's these psychology things that hold us back that sometimes we don't even have access to. And so today I am thrilled to be here with Lisa Leahy. We're going to talk through some of the most common mental barriers that hold us back from change. And I think you're going to be surprised with what we cover.

My name is Lisa Leahy. I'm founder and co director of Minds at Work and faculty at Harvard Graduate School of Education.

In one of your books, you write, if I wanted it badly enough, I would actually do it. And to me, that's one of the most interesting questions of our time. There are so many things that we genuinely believe we want to do, but we can't seem to make progress on it. And I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about what you found in your work.

Yeah, sure.

1.

I would start off by saying sometimes that is all that it takes to change. Really want it. Got a lot of interest in willpower and I make it happen. But as we speak about New Year's resolutions, we know very often that is not true. And I think one of the downsides of that being our prevalent belief that if I only wanted it enough. I get it, is we feel bad about ourselves. We feel like we're losers when we can't.

Right. So every year it's almost like we build ourselves up and we make this short term resolution. I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to eat better, I'm going to call my family. And then inevitably, life takes over.

Life takes over. From my perspective, your psychology takes over.

Okay, tell me about that.

Yeah. So when, when we are unable to actually complete our own aspirations, it's because often there's something going on inside of us that is working at cross purposes. We're aware of the goal that we have. We want to lose weight, for example, but we're unaware that there's a whole set of these unconscious goals that are actually very active and keeping us in a mode where a status quo is just what's going to happen.

Yes. So one of the things that I loved about your work is you talk about how we are actively resistant to change. And that's a very interesting, provocative concept, because if I think about myself as just a normal person, why would I want to stay the same? Right. That's ridiculous. I want to change. I want to get better at my job, et cetera. But you write that unconsciously, we are actually actively resisting change. What's going on there?

Well, so unconsciously, we have fears. Sometimes we can make those fear conscious. We can be aware of them. But our whole methodology is saying you don't just have these worries or fears. There's a part of you that is actively devoted to making sure the thing you're worried about doesn't happen. And so you're expending energy to keep yourself from feeling that fear. And that's what keeps you in this stuck place. You're like, don't let yourself feel it.

Yeah. You called it an immunity to change, which is a great phrase. And one of the things you said was, we must pay closer attention to our powerful inclinations not to change.

Yes. Yeah.

All right, so what are some ways that we have these limitations, this immunity to change? What are some examples?

Oh, so we have them. Anytime you look around and you ask yourself, what is it that I really want to do and I'm not doing, we likely have an immunity to change. So let me name the ones that are most common. Right. So there's the weight loss, health. Health goals in general.

They're like, the biggest ones of all.

They're big. But there's a whole set of work issues that are about delegating, that are about using time well, that are about being able to be more courageous in my conversations, that are about being more transparent. You name any interpersonal dynamic, you're gonna find that there are often immunities at play.

Okay, let's dive into each of these, because I think these are prevalent everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll come back to the weight one. That's. That's the elephant in the room. But let's talk about delegation. As an entrepreneur, I read all these books and blog posts about how you need to give up control. And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I need to give up control. But when it came down to it, when the rubber hit the road, I didn't want to. And I have to admit that it's been a skill I've had to build. And to this day, right now, today, I struggle with it.

Yeah.

I still write things that I shouldn't be Writing. There should be other people on my team writing it. I still am present at meetings that I probably don't need to be there, but. So if you said to me, ramit, you need to give up certain things, you need to give up control in these areas, I would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then.

But then, right.

I still struggle with it. So from your work, what's going on there?

Yeah. Well, can I ask you, Please. Okay.

I'm an open book.

All right. So I'm going to walk you through the methodology, and that's what I would like. Anybody who's interested in wanting to really unpack their own kind of stuckness.

Okay.

You start off with a goal. I want to be better at delegating. And you just told me there's all kinds of things you do that work against that. That's the second step, an honest self inventory. I write things I know I should be giving to other people. And I'm. Okay. Now, when I ask you what's the worry or fear you have if you were to actually turn over your writing to someone, what would you say?

Oh, I fear. I'm worried that it won't be good enough. I'm worried that I've built a business based on my writing and nobody can write like that. They can't write like me. They can't write as well. And if I really dig in, it's that I'll lose the trust of the people who have been reading my stuff for 11 plus years.

Yeah. Okay. So there you go. So you actually are very able to quickly name the things you're worried about. Now, what we would say in this methodology is you don't just have those worries, but you have a commitment to make sure those things you worried about never happen. So you're actually deep as committed to making sure you're the person who stays in control as you are to be the person who delegates. So you've got this tug between those two parts of you.

So you're saying that publicly. I'm claiming. I really know that I need to delegate more.

And you do. I don't doubt for a second you have that as a sincere goal.

Right. It's genuine.

It's genuine.

Okay. I feel it.

Yes.

But you're also saying that there's a whole nother layer where I'm as committed to not giving it up.

Yeah. And actually you are a little bit more committed to not giving it up.

Oh, yeah.

Because otherwise you would be delegating more. So right now that Part of you that wants to make sure you maintain the quality that meets your standards, that's the part of you that's quote unquote, winning. Aha.

Is it a battle? Is it one side's winning? Is that the way that you conceptualize it?

Well, when you're unconscious of it, yes. But when you become conscious of it, then what we would say is the next step is an opportunity for you to really get to where. What are the big assumptions you have that lead you to keep hold of these column. We call them column three commitments.

So I have big assumptions. I'll tell you right now, because I've thought about this a lot. Not with your methodology, but I love being walked through it. My big assumptions are there's nobody who can write like I do. That's an assumption.

Yes.

Okay. My next assumption is that if somebody comes in and writes that because it's not going to be as good, that people will sort of go away again.

Who's the people?

The people who are reading.

You'll lose your readership.

Exactly. Yeah. Is that true?

Yeah.

I don't know. We've put some stuff out that I didn't write. Performed pretty well. So that's kind of like an interesting data point out there. So those are assumptions. And then I'm sure there's more.

Yeah. So I could be a little provocative here and say, well, maybe there's something that's going on that is also about you want to maintain the specialness.

Definitely.

Once you start delegating and let's see, people actually succeed, this could be an oh, shit moment.

Maybe I'm not as important as I thought I was. The world doesn't, you know, the world still revolves if I'm not doing X, Y, Z.

Right.

So that really gets into ego. It gets into these sort of really deeply held notions. Yes. That we don't talk about on a day to day basis.

Yeah. Yes.

Okay, let's. We're sort of working in an accelerated format. But if you were working with somebody like me and I came to you and said these things.

Right.

What would you do next?

And then I'd ask you, are you interested in investigating the accuracy of any of these big assumptions?

I noticed that the format of the questions you're asking are very intentional. They're gradual, they're foundational. And you're building on each question.

Yeah.

If you were to walk in and sit down and then say, ramit, are you willing to give up control of xyz? I'd be a little defensive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the way you sort of approached it step by step makes me much more comfortable with it. So if somebody, if you're working with somebody and they say, yeah, I'd be willing to test it, then what do you do?

Then we begin the practice of how do you develop tests of your big assumption? And actually we would start probably mildly by giving you a chance to take a look at when your big assumption is taking you over. Just do some observations, become mindful of when it actually takes you over. So you've got a writing piece, oh, I just noticed I did not give that to somebody. Or I noticed I did give this to someone and then I thought, oh, this is not very good, and just cut it all apart. Okay, fine. So those become the context that you'll start to test your big assumption.

Got it.

The key to testing your big assumption is what is the data that if you discovered it, would let you know your big assumption is not 100% accurate. And that's what you're going to go set yourself up to find out. So in a way, you're trying to stack the deck to disprove your big assumption.

Right.

The notion there is if you, despite stacking the deck, don't get the disconfirming data, well, maybe a big assumption is right, but more often than not we find out our big assumption is not 100% correct.

I like this idea of basically treating yourself like a scientist.