Ramit Sethi explains how to have real conversations with people more accomplished than you. Research them first, ask targeted questions like "How did you decide to go into finance right out of college?", and keep the ratio at roughly 25 minutes about them to 5 minutes about you in a 30-minute call. The goal is learning and fit-discovery, not a job ask.
Question here from John about how to have a conversation with someone a little bit more senior than him. He asks, can you give some examples of what to talk about and how to talk to people who are much more accomplished than you? I'm a student trying to break into an industry and I'm having trouble networking. So far, I've been emailing alumni, setting up a phone call and telling them a breakdown of my resume. Then they tell me where they've worked, but I'm stuck as to what to do next. I know you were supposed to ask them questions, but it generally ends with me asking, what would you do if you were a junior back in college? I have no idea how to start the conversation and then keep it going. Could you give me a mock phone call or conversation in a way that it doesn't make the student look like he's asking for a job? I actually love this question because how many worthless pieces of advice do you know that say, just go out there and network. Just network with everyone. You're like, well, what does that mean? Who am I talking to and what do I actually say? So I'm going to give you that today. I'm going to show you some of the exact questions you can ask to keep the conversation going and direct it in a way that you want. Now remember, informational interviews are not about asking for a job. They are about actually learning what's going on, deciding if this is a good fit. And if you impress them, then perhaps down the line you will have the opportunity to send them your resume or get introduced to the company. So keep that in mind. Never go to an informational interview and ask for a job. With that said, here's how I might approach it. I might say, you know, it's really interesting. Looking at your background, I noticed that you graduated college, you started at Goldman Sachs, and then a few years later you transitioned out to work at a tech startup. What made you start working in finance? So what does that question do? First of all, it shows him that you've done your homework. That's very impressive. So already you've elevated your status by saying, like, wow, this guy knows what he's talking about. Good. And you've asked a very good question. How did you decide to go into finance right out of college? So the person's going to say, oh, you know, I had a lot of offers on the table and I decided finance because I wanted to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Good. And listen, don't just ask it for the sake of asking. Listen. Next, you can say, when you decided to transition to tech, it must have been tough to leave a lot of that money on the table and go to a more risky venture. Notice that I'm not asking something in this case, I'm mixing it up. You don't want to feel like you're interrogating him by asking 50 questions. In this case, I changed it by saying, it must have been tough. Right? Empathy. And of course he's going to say, oh yeah, it was real. Like, if I had stayed an extra year, I would have made $500,000. But I really felt like I needed to make a contribution to the world. And frankly, I was tired of doing Excel spreadsheets. You're like, that is really interesting because I feel like I'm in a similar situation. I've been working and doing Excel spreadsheets for most of them. And then I said, it's really interesting you mentioned that. And I brought it back to me. Notice the ratio here, by the way. I'm asking about two to three questions of him for every one thing I mention about myself. That's because nobody cares about you. You're just some college student. You're not here to talk about yourself. You are here to learn and listen. So that's why when I'm doing an informational interview, I'm always asking a lot of questions and then only briefly talking about myself. A good rule of thumb is in a 30 minute conversation, 25 minutes should be about them, five should be about you. Okay, so that is the way you keep the conversation going. By the way, just so you know, I have fully fleshed out conversational roadmaps. Everything from the email script you use word for word down to what do you say when you go into a coffee shop meeting? Who buys coffee? Where do you stand when you're waiting for him? I have it all fleshed out in my dream job course. So if you're interested, you can sign up@findyourdreamjob.com to get more details about that. Thanks for the question and good luck.
