How To Talk To Your Stubborn Parents About Coronavirus

Tonight we're talking about something near and dear to my heart. How to convince your parents to take coronavirus seriously. What the hell is going on with our parents who don't listen? We're gonna get to that. First of all, get your hand sanitizer out. As usual, our tradition. My last, first and only bottle of hand sanitizer. As you can see, this is. It's called ration of People. We don't know how long we're gonna be here for it, so join me in doing your part for cleanliness. So we're going to talk about this. I just want to update everyone. I have added some past Fireside chats that I did on money, et cetera. I've added them to my Instagram account, Ramit. I have also added them to my YouTube page, YouTube.com ramitzethi so you can go back and watch past videos of these other Fireside chats. Anyone who's recording this, please send me the recording.

Oh, wait, we gotta record it.

Oh, this is my. My professional videographer, Cass, who's. Oh, gosh. Are you recording it?

Yeah. Now recording.

I'm starting from the top. Welcome to this Fireside chat with Ramit Sethi. I am Ramit Sethi, everybody. Join me tonight as we talk about how to convince your parents to take coronavirus seriously. Join me first in our what we do every day, this ritual. Take your hand sanitizer and put it on, which I'm not doing a second time.

Rationing.

Oh, okay. I have our videos on YouTube.com ramitsethi so you can see past ones. I've also uploaded them to igtv. So yesterday we talked about money. Go watch it. Stop asking me about how to build an emergency fund. I already talked about it yesterday. Check it out. Is anyone. Oh, yeah, tag a friend. In fact, tag your parents. Oh, they don't know how to use Instagram. I don't know what to say about that. Anyone have any friend parents, especially ethnic parents who will not listen to what you're saying? Well, maybe it's time to tag your friends so they can get their parents and watch together, because this is driving me crazy. It's driving me insane. So I want to talk about this. And what I want to do to start off is by reading you some of the questions and comments I have gotten from people. You're not going to believe this stuff. My dad is from Vietnam. That side keeps having get togethers at home with our elderly grandma. I told them I will not be over for these dinners due to corona and my dad says, what's there to fear? It's just family. My mom simply said, I won't get sick. I asked this person, why do you think she says that? Fear. And not wanting to think. She is vulnerable. She's still going to Joann Fabrics and I can't get her to stay home. Joe and I can't even do this. You need something to throw, I need glass, I want to break things right now. My parents have stocked up the house, pantry, food, etc. But they keep doing their usual grocery errands. Twice a week, grocery shopping, picking up shoes from the tailor, etc. I asked them, so why did we stock up? They say, in case things get really bad. Things are bad. Help me convince my 70 plus year old parents to stay home. Who here is having this issue? What are you, what are your parents telling you? I'm going to tell you some of the reasons that they are coming up with these crazy responses that they're coming up with. I'm going to give you some reasons and I'm going to give you some solutions and then, damn, just get your parents out here. I'll put them on blast right now. Okay. They never dealt with the mean ramit. Usually I'm very nice. Oh, comes from the heart. I really love the way you approach that. Not tonight. I'm sick of this shit. So reason number one is consistency. I heard a story from someone who said my mom is going to her dentist appointment on Wednesday. This was a couple of days ago. Told her mom, you can't go outside because of coronavirus. She said, but I booked my dentist appointment two weeks ago. What the hell does that have to do with anything? And the answer is I'm not trying to justify their behavior, but I want us to at least understand where they're coming from. Then we can verbally eviscerate them. But let's first understand what's going on. Many people have a need to be consistent. So if they say they're going to do something, they're going to do it. And you know, when I think of somebody like that, I think of some old farmer out there, you know, my word is my bond. No, it's not just that. It's the mom who doesn't want to let her dentist down. Who cares about your dentist? It's like people who write me and say, oh, I don't want to switch away from Wells Fargo. I've had them since I was 10. What, you're loyal to a multi billion dollar piece of shit. What, so that's number one. Consistency.

Throw it.

I'm so. Number two, they don't understand cause and effect. I need to tell you an example of this. How about this one? We've been inside for four days. So we went outside to go to the grocery store and we went around a bunch of old, elderly, sick people. But we've been inside for four days. A lack of understanding about cause and effect. The virus doesn't care about you patting yourself on the back and saying, we've been inside for four days. And on the fifth day we went outside. Lack of understanding of cause and effect. This is a big one. Number three, they fear losing control. I want to go outside when I want to. And this can come in varying degrees. It can come from. I don't want somebody to tell me what to do. I don't want somebody to tell me what to do and take away my car keys. I don't want the government to tell me what to do. So it can come in varying levels on the spectrum. And it's odd when there's a bit of a role reversal when kids are telling their parents what not to do. There's a power dynamic there. That's why so many of us have been calling our parents, emailing our parents, texting our parents. And it's like we're talking to a glass wall or it's like we're talking to children. It's frustrating, as you can hear from my voice. But I'm not just doing this for show. It's serious. And I know people watching have expressed to me that the way you're trying everything and it's not working. One reason they fear losing people, They don't understand risk. Number four, I made it through two world wars. Congratulations. You know, but the virus doesn't care about what you did. The virus doesn't care about where you live. The virus is a virus. It's doing what it does. You are simply in its way and better to be out of the way. So for people who don't understand risk and say, I did this, I didn't do that, it's fine. Where are they getting this information from? Nowhere. This is where we are starting to see the limits of what people feel. And how can actually, you know, how your feelings can lead you astray. Look outside. It was a beautiful day today. How can anyone be getting sick? And yet they are. My feelings lead me astray. This is when we need science and data. So that's number four. They don't have a sophisticated peer group. I'm trying to Put that charitably, their friends are idiots. If their friends are still going out and saying it can't be that bad, well, guess what? They might. Their peer group is more relevant and salient to them than anybody they see on the news. Okay? And this is true. This is why you see people who live in certain areas, they dress like the people around them. Peer pressure is powerful. It starts when we are very young to the last few days. So I don't want to dismiss that. Again, I'm not trying to justify it. But we have to understand why if their peer group is not taking it seriously, if their peer group is part of certain cultures that don't take it seriously, then they are more likely not to take it seriously as well. And finally, it's possible that they are members of a cult. And if that's the case, boy, I'm really sorry. I don't know what to tell you. There's a video called the Brainwashing of my dad. It's on Amazon Prime. You should watch it. And we see a distinct difference between how many Democrats versus Republicans take this seriously. You would not believe it's double digit differences. That is the result of propaganda. And it shows the hallmark signs of being a cult. And if this offends you, I really do not care. These are the facts. They are documented. That's the way it goes. So if this is the case, honestly, I would break their tv. I don't care. I would break it. At this point it's life or death. And I am so pissed with these stories I've been seeing. You know, I got an email today from someone who told me elderberry is a natural cure for coronavirus. I fucking lost it on them. I see lies every day with Internet marketing. Make a million dollars and for the most part I keep my mouth shut. But this is life or death. And I see psychology being used as a vector against people. I see propaganda. It drives me insane. So we're going to pause for a second. Has anyone written anything in there that I should respond to? Otherwise I'm going to go to solutions and then we can talk about questions.

No, nothing in the comments but fix a fire. Okay, let's just take a pause. That was.

Well, feed me too. I never got so mad alone until today. But that's the way it goes.

Oh, this camera is going crazy.

Okay, that's what we're going to get tonight. Also, some people ask about Herbert. Herbert is our resident bug. Herbert has gone to a special bug farm on the outskirts of town. And you know he's being taken care of and he's going to live his days out very happily. So we wish Herbert the best. Okay, we got any questions or should I go on to some solutions?

Let's talk solutions. And if you have questions, put it in the comments.

All right, so the first thing that many people have probably tried is information. Mom, dad. The risk is high. Have you seen this? It affects 70 plus disproportionately. Let me guess, it didn't work. Informational influence is the lowest level of influence there is. Nobody cares, right? I could tell you right now you probably should invest because compound interest. You don't care. Nobody cares. Oh, this amount of body fat, fat. Nobody cares. Stop using informational influence. That's what experts should learn. But don't do that. It's not going to work. Next is one that was pioneered and invented by Indian, Chinese and Jewish parents. It's called guilt. This needs to be leveraged in the other direction than it normally is. Oh, mom, guilt tripped you for the last 38 years. Time to reverse that polarity. So this is what you say. You say, mom, have you seen the news? And notice. Slow it down, ask questions. Don't go in guns blazing like I am right now to however many thousands of people are watching this, probably including my parents. Mom, what have you seen on the news? What do you think about it? What do your friends think and listen and then tell them? You know, mom, it's really important to me that you stay inside. I'm sure you've gotten that advice. But what do you think about it? Notice lots of pauses, lots of questions. This where this work. This is where you hit them with a guilt trip. Mom, I know that you've thought about it. I know that you're still planning to go to the dentist on Friday, but I wanted to ask you a question. Mom, can you just imagine that dad had to live for the next 20 years without you there? What do you think that would be like for him? Silence. Now she's going to try to evade you. She's going to try to get out of this uncomfortable situation. But get specific. Twist the knife. Mom, when he comes home from work, what do you think he would do for dinner every night for the next 20 years alone? Twist it. And then if you want to get really extreme, you know where you go with the guilt trip? Go straight to the grandkids. What would it feel like if Christopher could never see his grandmother again? You guys think I'm joking? At this stage of the game, you use whatever influence you can to make it work. I don't care. Just do it. You got to get them to stay inside because they are not listening to logic. They're not listening to basic appeals. That's why I said break their tv. If my parents were addicted to Fox News, I would crack that TV with a hammer right now. I don't care. I just don't care. Finally, this what I did. I actually did this one fear. So I found a Wall Street Journal article. This is so crazy. They talked about patients in Italy who were lined up in gurneys, in hallways because there were not enough rooms, ICU beds, and they had to wait for days with some kind of bulbous thing on their head and just wait, wait for ICU rooms to become available. Also, I believe in that article, it said that there was a woman who. She had to be alone and isolated for two weeks on a ventilator because no one could visit her. How would you feel if that were the case? Alone on a ventilator for two weeks and none of us could come see you? I mean, look, we're really going to the extreme here. But this is true. These are not just made up stories. These are facts. They're happening in other countries and they will happen here. So I'm going to pause now in a second. So if you have questions, this is a good time to ask it. But aside from the. I mean, I actually don't think that I'm being hyperbolic with what I'm saying today. What I did today so far was I outlined some, not all, but some of the reasons that our parents are not taking this seriously. I would say that probably the two most common and powerful influences would be a fear of losing control. Because if you admit that, that this is happening and that you are the most susceptible to it, then suddenly there's a lot of scary things out there. And suddenly you have to confine yourself here for who knows how long. Easier to deny it and easier to make black or white boundaries. That's not going to affect us. We're Vietnamese, we're Indian, we. It's only family, black and white. Easy denial. That's powerful influence, number one. The second one I think is probably if they're under the influence of a cult, and I believe that, and we see that in the data that people who are under that influence markedly treat it less seriously. And I usually don't get political, but public health is inherently political. So we talked about some of the reasons. Not justifications, but reasons. Then we talked about some of the things that you can do Informational influence, Forget about it. They already know it's bad. That's not going to change their mind. We then talked about guilt, double guilt with the grandkids, fear. And that's what I've got. So that's where we are. I have not found any magical scripts or solutions that have worked from talking to many people. What questions do you have?

So lots of questions about what if my boss is like this?

Fuck your boss. No. The answer is no. Guys, are you kidding me? I just talked about peer pressure for the last 15 minutes. You're under peer pressure. This is what you do. I hate to say it, guys, but sometimes there are more important things than your boss approving of you. If your boss is issuing you an order, that could be life or death for you and for your family. This what you say? John or Joan or whoever. I appreciate your leadership and I've loved working here and I hope to continue. But out of respect for my family and the recommendations going around from the cdc, I will not be coming into work. Please let me know what next steps you suggest. If they fire you, they fire you. I'd rather be unemployed than dead. Simple as that. What else?

Questions? Okay. My dad is a gig worker, Uber driver. I'm considering subsidizing his income so he stops going out.

Write the check right now. Anyone who has money where your parents do not have to go into work, write the check right now. This is what money is for. Use it. But I want to say this. I got a DM just a few minutes ago. There's a 71 year old physician who has tons of money, tons of money, still going into work every day and doesn't. He's not a physician. Directly related to the type of coronavirus patients. It's very hard for people to rewrite their identity. So in your father's case, you have the money. You should write that check as fast as you possibly can. Stay home. This is for you. But sometimes you might find that parents, especially frugal parents who have grown up that way, they find it very difficult because their identity is work. And so it's not just a matter of the check. Although if you have it, write it. It's deeper than that. It's identity. And that's the moment where you have to really, really work on their psychology of at least temporarily changing their identity and joining all of us in this together who are quarantining ourselves. What do you got?

Okay, strategy to talk to mom, that is a nurse that doesn't take it seriously.

It's Very difficult. Nurse probably is saying, I'm already going to get it, so. So, etc. If she's, you know, honestly, this one is, I think above my pay grade. If she's a nurse, maybe she needs to be in the ICU helping people. So maybe she sees it as her job. If that's not the case, that's going to be a really difficult one. Oftentimes people in medicine are the most difficult to reason with.

Okay, next question. How do we get our parents to start spending their savings? Especially. Especially now.

We'll put a pin in that. That's a great question. We might come back to that later.

Okay, next question.

I feel like the people watching this are like, dude, we can talk about your rich ass parents who need to spend their money. How about my mom or dad who's about to die? How about that?

Okay, next question. My dad is obsessed with going to his daily religious services. How can we convince him to stop?

You need to call in all the stops. You guys know what a Karen is? Karen is the one who walks in and something's not quite right and she goes straight to the manager. You go to the manager now, you become a Karen. You need to call up the minister, the head person, whatever. You need to tell them it's time to shut this down. You're being irresponsible. You need to work your way down the organization. If they have a Facebook page, you need to write a post. Guys, you have to attack at all levels. The reason that I'm so pissed today and the reason that it's like not a joke. What I'm talking about encouraging people to do things they've never heard me say, break a tv. I'm talking about cults. I've never talked about this stuff publicly because this is life or death. So if it is your parents going to a religious service, we know scientifically this is going to be dangerous for groups of people, particularly groups of people together. We're actually already seeing it in New York with religious groups go at every level in every vector. You start with your parents, you go straight to the top, you work your way down the secondary minister, whoever it is, go on the Facebook page, start it, get a group together. All remember, your parents are susceptible to peer pressure and the minute it becomes not cool to go, they're out of there.

Okay, next question. My mom will ignore me and gets off the phone. She lives in another city. She ignores me completely.

This sounds very familiar. A lot of what is this? Like a mom and dad ship? The minute they don't like hearing something. Okay, gotta go. Bye. Is there anything else to the question?

Nope, that's it.

So the answer here is. Well, first of all, this is a really tough situation. And I know that. Usually what I find is that when people talk to their parents, they revert to a parent child relationship. And you can hear it in the tone of voice. Yeah, mom, but. Da, da, da. Mom. Leave me alone. Mom, you really need to do this. And it's just a totally different dynamic now. If you can't change that dynamic, especially now, then what are your other options? You have lots. You could change the dynamic fast. Okay, maybe that's difficult. You can call in your siblings. Shit. You can ask one of your friends who's really good. You could hire a skilled salesperson for a hundred bucks, say, I need you to talk to my mom. It doesn't matter. Use your resources and think creatively. So I have done this. I've had people in my life where the child, parent, relationship wasn't working, and they asked me, can you step in and can you have this conversation with them? And I did it. And for whatever reason, they listened to me more than their own child. And we've all had this experience. You tell your spouse something, they don't listen. Then one day somebody at work tell them, they listen like that for your mom. My guess is that you are probably you. You're in a power dynamic. She's unused to you telling her what to do. You're probably also attacking it tactically and in a nagging way. Mom, it's so unsafe for you. And I am willing to bet you haven't connected emotionally. Mom, what would it be like for me to grow up without you around? Mom, there's so many things I want you to be there for. My wedding, my anniversary, my this, my that. I want to go on a trip together to Iceland. Mom, I can't stand the thought of it. So even if it means that, you know, we both have to feel a little dumb, maybe this thing will be an overreaction. Mom, I'm willing to take that risk because I really care about our time together. So that's the kind of level you need to connect on. Because the facts are too scary. They're too big. The numbers are too big. You need to bring it way down, way closer to home. And that's where they might be willing to listen.

All right, next. I have a friend who sends her kid over to my house to play with my kid. How do I tell the mother to stop doing that because she thinks that coronavirus is not real.

Oh, wow. That's a nice little PS there. So this is a great example. Everyone watching this is like rolling their eyes. Like you just tell them to stop, but let's actually analyze what's on, going, going on. For most of us, peer acceptance is more important than anything. In this case, pure acceptance could actually be causing this person, like potentially be at risk of life or death. That's how real peer acceptance is. Do you guys see what I'm talking about? Like, to us, it's so easy and logical. We're outside the situation. Just tell them. But to this person, they really deeply care and all of us do in some way or another. So I'm going to give you a script. I think a tactic will help you. But I wanted to explain the psychology there so that you know why you are behaving in the way you do. You're not crazy. But to all of us listening, the answer is very obvious. So this is what you do. You write to this person, man or woman? Keri, I really enjoy having your son come over and I'm looking forward to to him continuing to come over to play with John in the future. However, right now we are officially closing our doors out of an abundance of precaution for coronavirus. I wish you the best and I wish you safety. And I can't wait for us to see each other again. Thank you. Notice there's no questions, there's no discussion, there's no minimizing. Oh, I know this is weird, but no, it's just straightforward. That's what you say. Case closed. What's next?

Any questions? Write them in.

Let's see. Here's an interesting comment I got from one of my readers. He says my in laws are watching my daughter during the day so my wife and I can work. They were talking on Monday about going out to eat. My wife had to tell them that if they did that, they can't see our daughter or us for two weeks. That finally got the severity of the whole thing through to them. This is another funny thing. Sometimes you will find that the oddest of examples will capture their attention. It's not the millions of people who are potentially affected. It's not the exponential infection rates. It's the fact that their uncle got sick. Across the country, human psychology is so fascinating and endlessly perplexing that the way we misjudge risk is unbelievable. You can see it on the news, you can hear stories. But until it affects us in some very real way, even an uncle living 3,000 miles away. It just doesn't internalize for us even now. So all the things I've studied about human psychology, social influence, cults, I'm seeing it here on superdrive on steroids. And it is at once disappointing, but it's at once comforting because it's predictable. But overall, it's mostly frustrating for me.

Okay, what about parents who work on hourly wages and can't quit job?

They are in a very difficult situation. So my suggestion is again, I want to start off with a kind of a very bold statement. I would rather be unemployed than dead. And I hope I'm not overstating the severity of this situation. But I do believe overreaction is warranted. So if you have the ability to write a check, please do. If you have the ability to ask family to help, please do. If you have the ability for them to follow my advice from yesterday and call up their landlords and discuss what can they do to get an extension. Call up their credit cards, call up their banks. These companies are doing deals now. And finally, don't forget about unemployment. This country has many options available. In fact, Ron Lieber in the New York Times wrote a big post today, New York Times, about what you can do if you are short on cash. So please take a look at it. Ron is doing. Ron and Tara are doing great work. Anything to get elderly people off the streets. And I know it sounds flippant to say, but do not let money alone be the inhibitor. I would rather be unemployed than dead.

Okay, last question. How much should we help people when we're better off than others but still worried about our own finances?

As I mentioned, that's a great question. And it must feel a special kind of torment to have financial comfort but also see people in need around you, whether it is your community or your family. I do think that as I wrote yesterday, a one year emergency fund is really important. I do think that it's your money and if you choose to dial back or higher up on the risk, you can do that. I know that like as I've said today, and I said it multiple times, write the check. This is a time where if you have saved money, you've saved it for a reason. And at this point, money, as we heard from the last question, can actually be life or death. So if you have the ability to help someone who's in need or is close to you, yeah, I would recommend it. It may mean that your investment returns might suffer a little bit. Really, in the grand scheme, who gives a shit? There's more to life than 11.3% return. There's more to life than that. Perfect Excel asset allocation. And I do think there are rare opportunities in life where we get to use money to truly affect someone's life. In this case, it's as serious as it gets. So I Will Teach youh to Be Rich has always been about using money to create and live a rich life. Remember, that's not just for you. That's for your family. It's for your friends. And it's using money even if you have to use it in ways you would have never thought of. Like hiring someone who speaks with an authoritative voice to call up your mom or dad and convince them, I don't care. I don't care how weird it is. Use your money to help your parents take this seriously. Use your thoughtfulness and your influence and hopefully some of the things I've done. If tonight was helpful, I want you to write me. In fact, I don't care what happens. I want you to DM me. I want you to email me. I want you to tell me what happened when you speak to your parents. All right, I'm going to try to send out some links that might help parents and I'll certainly send out a recording of this if you guys want to get on my email list. Iwt.com/iwt.com/end tag a friend on this so they know to come watch it. I know this got a little more serious than I had originally planned, but this is how I feel and I need to just be honest with what's going on. What I'm noticing some of the questions and comments I'm getting. And of course you can watch this on YouTube and IGTV. We will be back tomorrow with a new Fireside Chat. Send in your ideas, tag your friends, tell them to watch the past ones and tell them to come tomorrow. We'll do it all together. I will see you then.

Bye.