“I make 5x my bf’s salary—but I’m about to lose my job”

In today's conversation, I want a partner who's there by my side.

It's a little bit weird talking about money. I always feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Meet Victor and Mindy.

I feel like Victor is a dreamer and I'm more of like a realist.

I'm more complacent. I just like, see money as something that comes and goes.

Mindy is 39, Victor is 25, and they have fundamentally different views on money.

I don't do crazy spending. I don't buy myself nothing crazy.

I would travel four, five times a year, make my my own schedule, take a vacation. I can afford whatever I want to do.

He wants a simple life. She explicitly does not want a simple life.

I feel like it's just not working for me. We need a compromise.

I feel like she, like, deserves more, you know, I want to provide.

Are there age and income differences too big to overcome?

Feel like I'm carrying most of the weight.

You're not teammates. You two have not earned the trust to combine your finances. This is not a functioning relationship with money right now. Welcome to the Money for Couples show, formerly known as the IWT podcast. On today's episode, we'll talk with Mindy and Victor. She's a 39 year old software consultant and he's a 25 year old owner of a boxing gym. They see money very differently and it's causing tension in their relationship. As a quick reminder, if you're listening to this on a podcast app, please remember to check out our YouTube channel where you can watch these episodes in full, including their body language and facial expressions, which I find especially interesting. And if you watch on YouTube, click subscribe to make sure you get all of our new videos.

Maybe two months ago we sat down because I was trying to help him kind of put things on paper because I asked questions like, what does your money situation look like this month? And you know, budgeting questions like, do you know how much you're making? Do you know how much you're spending? Stuff like that. Because I write these things down, I track these things, but he doesn't, so. And then he has his own business. So I was asking, you know, like, how many clients do you have? We were talking about it because he was getting basically kind of kicked out of gym that he was at and he had to find another place. So we were making a list of clients and how likely are they to stay stick with him or, you know, maybe just not come back or whatever.

Do you get nervous talking about money?

Yeah.

You Do? Why?

I do because it's so not talked about. I grew up, just not. We don't talk about money at all.

And in this relationship.

In this relationship, we do. I feel like I initiate the conversations, otherwise, I feel like I wouldn't know anything. I think we should talk about money every week and. Or maybe every couple of weeks, at least once a month to get an idea of what the month looks like.

And do you do that?

We don't.

We don't.

How come?

Well, because we get into an argument, I feel like Victor gets defensive, and I feel like it just escalates where it doesn't need to be, because I feel like. And maybe it's my tone of how I'm asking, too. It's like attacking, or it's like, why haven't you done X, y, and Z? And, like, you should do it my way, let's say. But I'm learning that, you know, everybody has their own way. But I feel like I've been observing enough, long enough that I know his method is not working, so I'm trying to offer a better solution.

Can you think of a specific example where you brought up money and then Victor got defensive? Where were you and what happened in that conversation?

I asked him, probably, are you gonna be able to make the rent this month? He gave me an answer like, yeah, I'll. I'll figure it out. I'll find a way. You know, it's like, the money will be there. Don't worry about it. Don't ask anything else. And I'm like, well, okay, did your clients, everyone pay you on time? And did you know? Then I start asking more questions. So, like, did everyone pay you? And I'm trying to make calculations in my mind. Then he's like, oh, it's just like, stop asking.

How did that conversation end?

I Him changing the subject, and I just shut my mouth and that's it and don't ask again.

Is that typical when you talk about money?

Yes.

Okay, so, like, when that happens and you ask the question, are you going to have the rent? What are you. What are you really asking there?

I feel like I want security to know that, like, okay, whatever he is contributing is like, okay, because I obsess over money. So my obsession takes over to him, and then I want to know, like, okay, is his portion okay, or am I going to need to, you know, move some things around in order to cover him or whatever it is? Like, I'm always nervous.

Victor, do you remember that conversation where Mindy came to you and Said, are you going to have the rent this month?

Yeah.

What happened in that conversation?

I was, like, a little bit stressed because I have, like, clients that haven't paid yet. And, you know, it was like, I'm trying to, you know, like to get the money and blah, blah. So I just came out a little bit like a rude, you know, and I didn't want to, like, talk about it. I felt a little bit, like, under attack, you know, and I was like, in a defense move, you know, defense modes. For me, it's a little bit weird talking about money. I always feel like I'm doing something wrong.

I feel like Victor is a dreamer, and I'm more of, like, a realist. Oh, he is like, oh, I can just imagine myself with all these gems and all these things, and that's great, but how are you going to get there? You know? And, like, let's put that into action and how do you want to do that? And it's kind of like then we. We kind of talk about things, but we don't really dive deeper and say, you know, what are the steps that are needed? You know, what does that look like on paper? What does that look like? Monetarily, he is a dreamer, but he's also much more riskier than I am. He takes way more risks. Okay, so especially with money and everything, he just went for it. But I feel like I'm the security net, you know, the un unseen, like, security net, because I was always the one with the steady paycheck, you know, regular, you know, 9 to 5 job. And he just always wanted to open a gym.

Do you catch the dynamic here? Mindy obsesses about money and then chases Victor to get an answer from him. He avoids her first by reassuring her, it's going to be fine, it's fine. And then he just gets defensive. This is the chaser, avoider dynamic in relationships, by the way. This thing where one partner reassures the other, honestly drives me crazy. Like, if my wife came to me worried about our investments, which she would never do because we talk about money regularly, I could legitimately reassure her because I know what I'm talking about. But the people who reassure their partners are always the least knowledgeable about money. They're the ones who avoid money. And then they go, it's going to be fine. How on earth can you reassure someone about a topic you know nothing about? Let's dig into their backgrounds. Mindy is older than Victor, and she's more established in her career. Listen to her describe her journey.

I was Able to afford everything on my own as a woman. It's like my. My mom always said. Both my parents, they always told me, you know, like, just make sure you're good on your own. You don't need a man to support you. Just do everything. Like, they pushed all of us. I have two brothers, but I'm the only daughter, so. And my culture is very, I don't know, different.

What culture is that?

I'm Lebanese.

Lebanese, okay. So you were proud that you were earning money and you were able to pay for your own expenses. Then Victor moved in. And Victor assured you he can cover things. So Victor came in, he started paying for proportionally for rent and other expenses. So that must have felt even better, right?

At first, I feel like I didn't charge him rent maybe for the first, like, two, three months. Like, not much, just so he can get on his feet. But after that, at the point where he started paying rent regularly, I was like, yeah, this feels great, because now I have whatever amount. It was, like, extra money that I can put into savings and I can, like, start investing.

Walk me through that time where you felt good about money till now. What's changed?

Well, I'm losing my job at the end of October, when I didn't know I was getting laid off, and everything was going great, and I was investing, I was saving, I was doing everything that I thought to be right, and then it just felt like it got pulled from underneath me.

So, you know the date that you're going to be let go, which is how many months from now?

About two months.

Two months. Okay.

All right.

So you know that's going to happen. Do you have another job lined up?

No.

Got it. So your income is going to go to zero, right?

Yeah, basically.

Okay, that's scary. But I want to take a look at the finances to understand what that means. Victor, what do you think about this? The fact that Mindy's going to get laid off in two months?

I feel like a job is never secure, and you can never feel, like, secure, like, having any type of job. Like, when you're working for someone, you know, if. If it's.

No.

If it doesn't work for them, they can just, like, lay you off, you know?

Do you two think you see money the same way?

I think of money as spending, you know?

But that's a little interesting because you told me that at a certain point you were investing a lot. You had a big smile, a lot of pride when you were saying that.

Yeah, I think that's, like, the people Pleaser in me. I feel like I'm not good enough. Like, that's just a thing. It's like I'm not doing enough. So I gotta push a little more. I gotta do a little more, and it's like. And then it's never gonna be enough. So it's like I'm never. I've never reached a point where I'm like, okay, now I can sit back and relax.

Now back to the show. Coming back to the question of how you see money versus how Victor sees money. How does Victor see money?

I don't know how to explain it. Like, it's just whatever. It's just nothing. It's no big deal. It comes, goes. It's all good, you know, I'll make more. There's no real, like, seriousness about it because he's, in general, a more carefree person, and he's just not worried about the little minute details, you know?

Are you.

I am very.

You're in the spreadsheet. You're checking transactions, you're logging into your app every day, that kind of thing.

Yeah.

Victor, do you think you see money differently than Mindy does?

I do feel like I see money differently.

Tell me.

I think just how she said, like, I'm a little bit more. I'm more complacent, I feel like, you know, and it might be because, like, the way I grew up, I'm complacent with what I have, you know, like, I don't do crazy spendings, you know, Like, I don't buy myself nothing crazy. And I don't. I don't feel like I need that to be happy.

And.

Yeah, like, I just, like, see money as something that comes and goes, you know, it's always a roller coaster for me. I feel like, okay, that's.

That's illuminating. And how do you think that Mindy sees money?

I feel like she is very serious when it comes to money. Very, like, straightforward. We totally see the money differently. I see money as, like, happiness and freedom. I feel like that's my. That's my goal. Like, my happy life. My happy life or my life, my rich life? Yeah, that's my rich life. Like, just being able to be free and have time for myself and my friends.

Do you think that you can live a successful, happy, rich life together with your different views on money?

No, I don't think so. I feel like, you know, we have to be in the same page a little bit. You know, I have to get there. Like, you know, like, I have to be at the same level as her, so I can, like, be able to afford more for her and for me, but, like, I don't need much. But I feel like I'm, like, always in a hurry, and we are into two different parts in our lives. You know, she's, like, 13 years older than me. I feel like she already, like, passed, like, all her 20s and all that, you know, I'm still trying to figure it out, which is not bad. I kind of like the fact that I am, like, I have a little bit, like, a fire under my. That's how I feel, you know, that I. I want to get there for her and for me.

Well, I'm a little confused because you said that money comes and goes. You said I don't need much. I don't really need much. I feel like I need to make more money for her so that we're at an equal level. So those are. Those are all mutually exclusive. Mindy and Victor, obviously see money totally differently. Take the fact that Mindy's about to lose her job. She knows it. She's talking about it. She's concerned about it. Victor's response is, well, a job is never secure. That's actually a very common way of thinking for people who grew up poor, especially men who grew up poor. Now, I don't yet know if Victor grew up poor, but this is a pattern I've noticed where a man will simply say, happens. That's why you got to work hard. It's this idea that you're always going to be facing hardship. So why are we even talking about this? Just put your head down and grind. I've seen this many times on this podcast, and Mindy is saying, hey, we don't actually have to face that hardship if we plan together. I think we should take a look at the conscious spending plan, and that will help us. It'll certainly help me understand what's going on here. Can you read the word in bold and the full number next to it for each of these entries?

Under net worth, assets, 33,000. Investments, 46,678. Savings, 25,255. And debt is 29,341. So a total net worth of 75,592.

What do you think of those numbers?

They're very low.

Oh, how do you know that?

It's not what I imagined having at my age, but I shouldn't. I'm not surprised because I'm. I just started investing and saving a lot, so.

Okay. Okay.

What about you? What do you think?

Victor I feel like it's low for her. Well, for me, like, you know, like, I haven't. I don't know nothing about, like, investments or nothing. She's been talking to me about it since, like, she found you. And she'd been talking to me about, like, that I should start, like, saving money and all that.

Do you listen, like.

No, I don't. To be honest. I don't.

Okay. I like the honesty.

Yeah.

That's okay. That's like, 95% of my readers anyway. They don't even listen to me. All right, let's go to the income part. I found this particularly interesting. Victor, read this. Combined monthly income. What's this number here?

$14,707.

Yeah. Per month.

Per month.

So that's $176,000 a year is what the two of you make. Did you know that? First of all?

No, we didn't know that.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Yet again, proving that at least 50% of the people I talk to do not even know how much money they make. Can I just say, like, you two are unmarried. You've been together for six years, I believe. Right? Okay. Did you combine your finances or. No, no. Together you make $176,000. Does that seem like a lot or a little?

For me, it's a lot.

For me, it's, like, not enough for where we live.

What's enough?

That's the question. I don't know. There is no enough ever. I mean, maybe when I'm starting to make, you know, $300,000 a year, that would be nice. Then maybe I'll be happy.

Have you ever listened to anyone on this freaking podcast?

Yes. And I bring.

I literally scour the earth to find multi, multi millionaires just so I can ask them one single question. Is it enough? And then what do they always say? Tell me. No, no, it's never enough. I. It doesn't feel like enough. I go, I told you, the amount you make is uncorrelated to whatever.

And then I get mad because I'm like, I would be fine with that. I wish I had that.

You know, how many people are going to listen to this and say, If I made $176,000 a year, I would have so much extra money left over, I would never worry about it.

No, I. I know that those people exist, but where do they live? You know, where do they live?

I said to her, at some point, I do feel like I can make. I can make a little bit more if we, like, bring down the rent or Something, you know, so we can move somewhere else cheaper.

You know, your rent is like nothing. I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Like, oh, if we lowered our rent. Your rent is already relatively low, especially for your area. That's not the problem. Your income is actually high. I sure you could make more, but it's not simply that. And if we look at your fixed costs, what is that number next to the fixed cost? Victor, what's this number right here?

56%.

Yeah, that's your fixed cost. 56%. So typically I like to see that number between 50 to 60%. You guys are right down the middle. 56%. So your fixed costs are totally within parameters. That means it's not like you're overspending on anything crazy. And I looked through this. Your housing costs are fine. In fact, I would say they're good. Your car payments, a little high. We could talk about that. But it's nothing absolutely crazy. You know, everything is like pretty reasonable. The problem occurs when we go down the csp. Your investments are at zero. That's a problem because it means you're not getting ahead. Okay. The only place true wealth is created is in this category, investments. And you have zero. I know you have some 401k. That's great. I'm happy for that. But you know, at $176,000, theoretically, if you want to be getting ahead, you could be doing a little more.

Yeah.

Your Savings are at 27%. That's pretty high. You know, we could talk about where the money's going, but there's certainly margin to be played with or there's money to go around. And then you have your guilt free spending at 18%. Is this number accurate or not? What do you spend 1700 bucks a month on?

Eating out, mostly.

Okay, so eating out, what else?

I do some shopping. I buy like a few things here and there. Victor will buy himself a pair of sneakers once in a while.

All right, so that number is pretty accurate. Fine. This Debt, you have $29,000. What kind of debt is that?

It's both our car loans and Victor's like couple of thousand dollars of debt to the IRS and CT DRs.

Let me tell you what I see. I see a high income. I see your fixed cost number is within parameters. So I have no comments on how you're spending. In fact, I think your housing costs are good, especially for your area. I think the CSP looks like a pretty healthy csp. We then have to ask the next question. What are the problems? Well, if you were 25 years old. I would say, well, Victor, you are 25 years old. If both of you were 25 years old, I would say, keep going, you're doing great. Invest a little bit. You're good. Because, Mindy, you're, I think, 39 years old. We will want to calculate, are you investing enough, how much, all that stuff. And obviously, we want to be putting more money towards that. But the real thing that stands out to me is the income disparity. Mindy, you're making 12,300 bucks a month. Victor, you're making 1500 bucks a month or so. If. If you both decide that this is how this is fine, this is how it's going to be, then you have a working csp. All the numbers work out. It's fine. But I don't think that's really the problem. I think the problem is that you two see money completely differently. You don't talk about it. Victor, you don't have the curiosity to get engaged with money because your view is, money comes, money goes. It's no big deal. If something happens, we'll figure it out. And Mindy, you're saying I need security. I need to know certain answers, and I need a partner in this. I can't be the one doing it on my own.

Exactly.

We have several things going on here. We have. Mindy, you're the worrier. You worry about money. In fact, even when your CSP looks good, you never actually just came out and said, oh, this is good. You just worry about it. You. You focus right on what's wrong with it. What is this, the Lebanese upbringing?

Probably.

Are you guys the same as Indian people? Like, what's wrong? Never, like, oh, we did a great job.

It's like, ah, it's like, you can do better. Yeah.

You're the same. We're the same. Okay, I get it. Okay, so there's that, which it's good because it makes you achieve. I mean, you're. You're earning a lot of money. It's amazing. Probably thank your parents for teaching you about that.

Yes.

But also, you're never going to feel good about your accomplishments because you never feel adequate. You never feel enough.

Okay.

By the way, do we have the two cultures least likely to be found seeing a therapist on this call right now? A Puerto Rican and a Lebanese woman. What is it? Have you ever. Have you ever been within 20 miles of a therapist? Tell me the truth.

I've had a therapist for years.

What? No way. Okay. Amazing. Okay. I applaud. And Victor, what about you?

Absolutely not.

Just like, I just punched the bag.

And. Now that is funny. Okay, so to go back to it, Mindy, you constantly feel inadequate about money, even though in many ways you've accomplished some really impressive things. Okay, sure, there are things we can work on, but if you can't ever feel good about money, it'll be hard to spend more time, and it will certainly be hard to create a healthy culture in your household around money. I joked around with them about all of our cultures, but I do feel grateful to be able to understand multiple perspectives on money, especially as someone who grew up the son of immigrants in America. The cultural beliefs that we grow up with are rarely written down somewhere, but they are pervasive and they are deeply held, and they affect the way that we relate to money for our entire lives. I am curious to know more about Victor's background when it comes to money. Welcome back. Let's get back into our conversation with Victor and Mindy. Victor, did you grow up poor?

I cannot say that I grew up poor. I felt like as a very young child, I had. I have it all because of my grandparents. They used to, like, you know, like, take care of us. And then something happened, like, where he did, like, a bad business and he lost pretty much everything.

Oh, who did that? Your. Your grandfather?

Yeah, my grand. My grandpa. And then. And then I felt like, you know, like, that's. That's stuck with me. And that's why I see, like, I think that's why I have that view of, like, money comes and goes, you know, Very insightful.

You know, it's interesting, in families, things will happen, like there will be some alcoholic uncle or aunt. The stories of that person will get passed down. And interestingly, people often react in totally different ways. Some people will go, I'm never starting a business. Uncle Joe lost everything. I'm never starting a business. Others will go, I'm going to start a business and I'm going to make it work. In your case, Victor, you're starting a business, but you're also saying, maybe it works, maybe not. I'll figure it out. Now, guess what? If you were 25 years old, as you are, and you were solo independent, that's fine. You probably would figure it out. The thing is, you are living together with somebody who's 39 years old and who has said she wants what I.

Need to, like, learn new ways and non. Stay stuck in the same old me.

So what would that look like?

I found a job and I. I'm going to be working during the day, and then, like, in the afternoons, which is where my gym is, like, the most full, I will be making more because, like, the business that I am in, I'm going to be working as a security in school. So I want to talk to all the Latino parents, you know, and try to get all the kids from my school into my gym and make more money, you know.

Okay. All right, that sounds like a plan. What do you think about that, Mindy?

I like it. And the reason I like it is because he went back to having some kind of steady income. So at least at the minimum, we know that he has his paychecks coming in from the security job and then everything from the business, whether it's a slow month or whatever, then that. That could be extra.

Let's fast forward 6 months, 12 months. You know, you're making 60, 70, 90k. When you combine everything approximately. What's it going to take for you to actually both feel like a team?

That's exactly the question I ask myself. I want to be on the same page. I want to work as a team. I want to build something together. I feel like I'm very independent, and it's like I always have in the back of my mind, like, just take care of yourself. Like, as long as I'm good, I'll be fine, you know, because if anything can happen, but, like, I know we're going to be together for a very long time, hopefully until we die. So, like, I want us to start thinking about what does our future look like.