This is a recorded live-in-studio YouTube conversation (host: Ramit Sethi) with married couple Taylor (39) and Steve (42) about money, careers, and communication. The episode centers on a dinner that exposed a recurring dynamic: Taylor pursues information and results (chaser), while Steve avoids difficult topics and often shuts down due to professional dissatisfaction (avoider). Tension arises from unequal professional progress, money/household contribution expectations, and intergenerational behavioral patterns (Steve noting learned shutdown from his father). The host frames these as power, communication, and emotional-avoidance issues and invites viewers to watch additional video material on YouTube.
Questions this video answers
39
42
New York City
Chapters
It's like, you know that quote, all work and no play. He's like, all play, no work. I don't want to say I wanted to marry Rich. That's not true. I think I was expecting to have a more traditional relationship.
I can like, get the points. I can cash them out or use them for travel versus, like, sending out applications into the either and not necessarily know what happens with them.
I mean, we've had this conversation. Are you going to be contributing to the house or not?
I mean, I really want to.
Does it feel like you have a partner in that decision making?
No, it feels like I have someone that's along for the ride. It's been so many years. The trying is great, but like, where's, where's the result?
I just need to believe that for myself. It's really hard for me to believe in myself.
How do you think you could believe in yourself?
I mean, honestly, I feel like taking mushrooms could help.
I'd like you to meet Taylor and Steve. Taylor's 39. Steve is 42. They're married. They live in New York City, and they're frustrated. Taylor's a high achiever. Steve has struggled in his career. They can't seem to get on the same page with money and it is causing a lot of problems. And you're going to hear that in this conversation, which we recorded live in studio in New York. I would highly encourage you to come watch the video on YouTube where you can see a lot of new material, including some behind the scenes clips that we're adding to today's episode. The story begins at a recent dinner that they both remember vividly for different reasons. Let's talk to Taylor and Steve.
I was just getting over being sick and we decided to go out to dinner because Steve had this coupon. I asked Steve about his day and I just didn't get a lot of response. A lot of answers, which is typical. There's like a shutdown when I ask about his day because he thinks that I'm asking, have you worked on some kind of income stream or something? Which. Yeah, I mean, that's part of why I ask. There's this, like, tension, this pink elephant in the room with us. Often when I try to get a little more information from him or connect with him about work stuff.
Okay, so when you were sitting down at dinner, were you at a restaurant?
Yeah.
Okay. And what did you say to him?
What did you do? Oh, I, I emailed someone about something and tried to work on my blog and I'm like, anything Else I try to share things that I'm proud of with him. If he does something like works on a blog, I'm like, great. That is so great. I, you know, I try to, to lift him up. And I think I've also gotten to a point because it's been so many years, we're out of time. The trying is great, but where is the results? Where is the stuff that needs to really start happening?
Okay.
Yeah.
Steve, what do you remember about that dinner?
She asked me how was my day? Fine. Then she was kind of asking more and more details, wanting to know. It felt to me like it was a bit like wanting to track my like schedule to like not to the minute, but like really granularly. And I just felt overwhelmed. Once I feel like I'm like done talking, I don't, it's hard for me to continue with the nudges and the pushes.
What do you mean by nudges and pushes?
She started out with like, you know, how was your day? And then what did you do? And how was this? And it's just like more and more questions, which, I mean, honestly, I probably need to handle these questions better and be more self reflective, but I generally don't.
Why is that?
I don't feel really happy with where I'm at, so I feel like it's something that I don't love sharing necessarily.
When you say you're not happy with where you're at, do you mean professionally or also otherwise?
Professionally. I think personally I'm in a great place.
Okay, cool, cool. So when topic comes up, feels a bit raw and you don't want to.
Talk about it, I feel like everyone's doing better than me and it's something I don't love talking about.
Okay.
Yeah.
How often do you talk about your professional work at home?
Every day. Every day it feels like, okay, I.
Talk about mine every day.
We talk about it and then she'll get mad and then we won't talk about it for a while.
A while means what, a few days?
No.
Okay, well, let's, let's.
Why don't we let him answer?
Recently it feels like it's been more, I don't know, on occasion. Sometimes it will. Feels like in the past, it's been a few weeks.
Can you look at me? I noticed that when I ask you questions, you're looking at her. Have you noticed that?
It feels to me like we talk about it a lot and like, because I know, like I should be earning more and doing more and like, so for me I kind of like always try to avoid the conversation because I feel like I haven't improved it.
I know these things in the moment. I get so angry and then when I take a step back, I can understand that he feels so down and I don't want to add to that. I don't want to make him feel worse. That's never what I want to do. I think I just try to balance checking in about it and also giving him space to cope.
And you interpret that as she's asking me about work again And I therefore need to what, Shut down, right? Yeah. And if you shut down, then what.
Happens was like sad and awkward and like kind of like what are we doing here?
And that's how the dinner ended.
I was like quiet for a long time, which I've realized I've learned from my dad. Like he will like shut down and like I get annoyed by it. So. But I like, as I get older, I've seen more and more traits from my parents in me which I don't necessarily love.
Here we have their dynamic. First, Taylor's the chaser, Steve is the avoider. Second, there's a power dynamic at work which we can see not only from income, but also from how Steve looks at Taylor as he answers questions about himself. Finally, we notice that when they talk about money or even about his day, Steve shuts down because he's not proud of where he is professionally. And this, by the way, reflects his parents dynamic as well. Take me back to the beginning of the relationship. When was the first time that you remember having a serious conversation about money?
I was on a date with Steve and at the time I was much different. I wanted someone, I don't want to say I wanted to marry rich. That's not true. I think I was expecting to have a more transparent.
