Ramit and Cassandra open up: “Our real money fights (and what we learned)”

Like, I never would have thought about.

This in my seat today.

Bye.

Wedding already.

Oh, my God. Cas underplays how frustrated she was. You were really frustrated.

Oh, it p me off. It really makes my blood boil.

I remember that moment where, like, the blood leaves your face, and I realized, like, I violated my own rule from chapter nine of my own book where I say, talk about it early, and it was true.

I think of the things that we've gone through in our marriage, and it's been really tough sometimes.

It was pretty hard. It was hard because I'm like, why are we not combining our finances?

I wanted to do it on my own to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit like, I'm fine on my own.

Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?

Lighten up on the rules.

Ooh, okay. That's never gonna happen.

Times when we have had fights, and then the next morning we have a money meeting. I'm like, oh, this money meeting.

We have our own challenges, years into getting married, and it's hard.

We've been joking over the last few days about your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.

Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now? Oh, my God.

Welcome to the Money for Couples show. I am your host today, Julie Nguyen. And today's guests are Ramit and Cass.

Let's go.

I'm way more nervous about this than any podcast I've ever done. I've been told I need to work on being more vulnerable. So today I'm doing something I have never done, and it made me really nervous. More nervous than shooting my Netflix show. More nervous than going on tour. On today's episode, my wife Cassandra and I are in the hot seat. We are being interviewed by my longtime friend, Julie Nguyen. We wanted to do this podcast because people are always asking how Cassandra and I manage our money. How do we actually do it behind the scenes? How does it work if you make different amounts of money or you have a prenup or you saw money differently? And for years, I've kept that private. But today, I'm in the hot seat, and so is Cassandra. The truth is that our relationship, like a lot of yours, is complex. We come from different backgrounds. We kept separate finances for years. We both run our own businesses, different incomes, strong opinions about money, and a prenup. We got a lot of things to talk about. But this episode is not just about the hard stuff and the differences in how we see money. It's also about how to Bring those differences together. How you can learn and laugh and mess up and still stay connected. So today, in part so that I can be more vulnerable with you, I hand it over the mic. Julie is one of my best friends. She was also a roommate. She knows all of my embarrassing stories. She's also known Cassandra since we met. So let's get into it.

Julie, you have known Ramit a very long time.

We have a long history, like, friends, classmates, roommates, professional contacts, all of it. And, yeah, it's been awesome.

It feels like just yesterday you were recording these YouTube videos in the bedroom, like, right next to mine.

Yeah.

And every time I couldn't find my makeup mirror.

Okay.

I was, like, trying to do my makeup. I would go in and it would be on Ramit's desk because it had, like, a vanity light on it. And that's what he used to light those YouTube videos. Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?

Wow. Good question.

I think one is around the rules.

Yeah. Like, I'm more like, we set a.

Rule, we keep it. And I'm like, you know, we're going to have to revisit sometimes.

And I'm like, what's that word? I never. I never heard that.

And it's okay if we, like, break the rule and stuff, because sometimes we need to.

So that's why I do think that you. You really like to blend money and feelings. Money and where are we in our relationship?

Yeah.

And I think that shows up a lot. And for me, like, I'm just like, let's hit this number question that we have. Like, we need to answer this question about which account should this be in? And I think that both of us have, like, tried to meet in the middle and come up with creative solutions for it. Sometimes you really just need to talk about it.

I don't think that's ever going to change either. It's just one of those things, like, it's not worth rediscussing all the time, and that's okay. But for me personally, they do coexist. And when times when we have had fights, and then the next morning we have a money meeting, I'm like, oh, this money meeting, I don't want to have it right now. You know? And so it does. It will always just coexist for me. Whereas you can compartmentalize. Yeah.

Also, I think there have been times, especially when I was writing my book, where I didn't. I'm supposed to, like, send the agenda out for the money. Meeting, and I didn't. In fact, I let it go for, like, over a month sometimes. And Cass would bring it up like, hey, you're supposed to be in charge of this. You would never miss a meeting at work ever. So why are you missing this meeting? When she told me, I was like, oh, you're right. Let me fix it. And I did fix it for a while, but then it went back, and then she brought it up again. And finally I was, like, very embarrassed because here I am writing a book about money for couples, and I'm not even following up by setting the freaking money meeting that I'm writing about. Yes. It's important to me. Why am I not following through on this thing? I would never miss an equivalent meeting at work. And it's so crazy. The thing that I realized was our meetings were scheduled at, like, 7pm what work meeting am I scheduling at 7pm? None. Because by that time, we're tired or somebody had to go out for a dinner meeting or something like that. So I was like, okay, as crazy as this sounds, I think that one of the reasons is that we're not taking this seriously, because it's at 7pm I'm not taking it, so can we move it? And she was like, okay. So we moved it to 9am on. On this one day. And like, that. That is what it deserves. It deserves to be in business, business hours, so that we are both fresh, ready to go. We talked about what's in that meeting. We sort of simplified that. But it's the time that made the difference.

And I think, for me, because you had missed a few of them, like, to the point where I could feel the resentment kind of building, and. Because I took it personally. Right. Because it's connected for me. And so at one point, I was just like, okay, I've, like, addressed it with him. He's an adult. He can figure it out. And you did. So I had to kind of let you go off on your own and. And do it.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm wondering, was there ever a money conversation you guys had that was the hardest one, where maybe it almost tore you apart?

I'm sweating thinking about it right now. Yes. I think.

What did prenup say? I was gonna say prenup as well.

100% prenup. First time I brought it up, I remember I had, like, talked to so many people, gotten advice, planned what I was going to say, and I was very nervous about it. And you received it really well. I remember what you said, you know, hey, I wasn't expecting this, but I don't know much about it, but I'm willing to learn. I was like, wow, amazing. For me, I knew we were getting married, so I'm like, I'm not trying to negotiate this in a way that I come out, like, winning and she loses. It was like, we're in this together. So my natural inclination is I want to propose something that is so generous, there can be no question about what I want from this. And I remember because I was like, I want you to never have to worry about money, because we don't have to worry about money. We get this amazing opportunity to live our rich life and help our family and things like that. So, you know, lawyers put together this thing, and I was like, cool. Like, this is going to be great. It was not. And. And I was, like, shocked, because I'm like, whoa. And we're talking about big numbers. And we started going back and forth, and I was very confused, like, very hurt, because I'm like, I'm not trying to trick anybody here. And I think that that was when it started to get very difficult. And it all changed when you said, like, hey, this isn't really going well. Let's go see somebody. And then we walked down the street to that therapist.

Yeah.

Just like, we found them on Yelp. And that question she asked us, like, how do you see money? And that really opened up conversations that we hadn't been able to have, because her. My answer was like, growth, of course. Like, look. Look at the compounding. And her answer was, safety. Like, huh?

I was like, I don't want to be possibly divorced sitting outside of a house with rain coming down and dark clouds.

And I was like. I was like, look at these numbers. That's literally impossible. But in retrospect, you were not asking me to pull out a spreadsheet. You were feeling this. Looking back, I needed to listen to what you were saying. I should have been asking more questions. I should have used the freaking wheel of emotions because I didn't know how to describe my feelings. I wasn't raised talking about my feelings. And you also needed to become more adept with numbers and to be able to merge between feelings and numbers and logistics.

Yeah. And I'll never forget something Ramit said to me during that time. You were like, I really need you to get better at money. And I took that very seriously, because deep down inside, I was like, I know I'm not that great at money. You know, I could get better. And so that's when I started reading the books Hired a coach.

Like.

Like journaling.

She hired a coach. I never even asked her who the coach was, cuz I'm afraid if I find out who it is, I'm going to be so mad. Who is this coach who's talking about money psychology that you hired? Not. But in retrospect, that was totally the right move. You can't learn from somebody who you're talking to about this. You have to find your own way. And you did it. Like, you put in tons of work. I remember you would lose your breath when we were talking about money.

Yeah. I would physically feel it. Yeah. Like anxious and stuff.

You would run out of breath.

Yeah.

And you'd have to, like. And that doesn't happen anymore.

I think a lot of our experiences from that kind of bled into our marriage. And until we started having those tougher conversations about, like, why do you really feel that way and what's beneath that, we started to uncover, for me, at least it was a lot. Because of what happened in the prenup and how I felt at that time. And thinking back to the prenup, I feel like I was a completely different person then. I was more scarce with money, so I didn't think abundantly with, like, I can earn more, I can start a business, I can do this and that. And so I was like, okay, I need to keep what's mine and my. My mind. And Ramit was always very like, this is why I'm doing this. And he always explained why. And so the prenup, because I didn't grow up with anyone who had prenups around me, so I had to do my own research. And then the advice online is horrible for women as well. And so really kind of sifting through all of that info was tough, but yeah, the prenup was really tough.

We've been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.

Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now?

And oh, my God, your team was able to send me. So we are going to dig into the numbers. Your csp.

Oh, wow. You know what? I'm not even fazed because I know you don't have it. I know it. I know that. It's called confidentiality, people. Although our CSP would make no sense.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

It would make no sense.

Yeah.

No assets. Well, aside from investments.

But yeah. Yeah.

What is the biggest asset? Like a sweater.

Yeah. Maybe.

I don't know.

Jewelry.

Yeah. Basically very few assets. And. Yeah, it just makes no sense.

Yeah. It Wouldn't make any sense. But I see you sweating.

I know. I don't want that csp. People will be like, what? Why do you spend that much on guilt free spending? Like, because I like to travel.

I wouldn't want people to see your csp. I kind of basically know I'm close enough to you guys understand if they don't know you. Well, that's the thing.

Yeah. But actually, I think that when I see somebody who has, like, a crazy way that they spend money, I actually admire it. As long as they can afford it. I'm like, oh, you. Oh. Like, you spend this much on clothes or you spend that much donating, whatever it is. I'm like, that's cool if you can afford it. The more dialed in your rich life becomes, the more weird your finances will become. And that's normal. Like it should be. The more unique you create your own vision. So I. I think we've done that together progressively over many years.

Yeah, definitely.

I want you each to talk about what you did leading up to this podcast because it highlights how different your personalities are.

Yeah, Tell them, Cass.

Yes. So we had a party this weekend at our place, and I thought it would be fun to have these finger tattoos available to everyone, except I was the only one who used them. They came on and they were so light, so I was like, I'm just gonna put them on all my fingers. So I did. And then last night I spent an hour trying to get them off. And I was like, oh, well, it's fine.

She looked at me, she goes, babe, they're not coming off. These are not coming off. What should I do? I'm like, I don't know, Use. And I looked it up, and then it didn't come off. And then she just goes, yeah. I'm like, babe, they roll tight on your fingers. They're gonna see everyone looking like a felon. Hold that up. Look at this.

I probably should have read the instructions before because these are supposed to last two weeks.

Yeah, she did it two days before we shoot. Anyway. Perfect example. You're like, go with the flow.

It's fine.

I'm like, did you plan it out? What's in the calendar? I would never.

Well, you even told me last night. I don't even use any body products that are new. I don't eat anything out of the ordinary.

I would never use, like, a different shampoo the day before.

It just never crossed my mind at all.

Yeah, I. I gifted. I gifted these two a very nice shampoo and conditioner. I Wasn't expecting you to use it before the shoot. And then Cass told me she used it even I was like, girl, you could have wait one day.

Perfect example.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very much so, yes.

Okay, I want to rewind again. I know Ramit has spoken a lot about his experiences with money growing up, and we can revisit those. But I'm curious, Cass, what was your experience with money growing up?

When I think of my parents and of my childhood, I think of just laughing all the time. And my parents really instilled in me to have a good sense of humor because life can get tough and all the things. But my parents both worked full time. Their work ethic is, like, exceptional. I have a brother as well, so it was four of us in the household. And so whenever my brother and I wanted to do sports. Sports or whatever, they would find a way to make it happen. They were always so supportive because we didn't travel a lot when I was small. We would just stay in California, do road trips and stuff. But anytime I got the opportunity to go somewhere, they're like, go do it. Like, we'll find a way to make it happen. And so I'm always, always so grateful for that. There were never real conversations about money. But honestly, I think it's because my parents were so busy working all the time. Like, they just needed to work and provide and all of that stuff. Stuff. So I had a very amazing childhood. But, yeah, we didn't really talk about money too much.

Now, Ramit, talk a little bit about what your money experience was.

Growing up, my parents did not come here with a lot of money. You know, they had an arranged marriage. My mom got on a plane for the first time and comes to America to meet my dad. They met seven days later, married, and they built this family. And sometimes they had to do stuff that, like, we can't really imagine doing right now. Quite frugal, because they had to be.

Please tell the Disneyland story.

Oh, my God.

Because I love it.

Oh, my God. So, okay, I was born in 1982, and when I was 14, 15 years old, something like that, we went to Disneyland. We didn't go to Disneyland a lot, but we were living in Northern California. Our family trip was typically get in the minivan, drive down to Southern California, stop midway, open up a thermos, which my mom had made lunch and put it in there. We wouldn't eat out at, like, a McDonald's, too much money, and then keep going and stay with our family in Southern California. Like, that was our trip. This Time we went to Disneyland. Disneyland is expensive, but my dad loves a good deal. So we get to the front, and we know that something's going on, because he goes, stay there. And. But I wanted to listen. Not only does my dad pull out his state id, not only does he pull out his triple A discount and stack that on top, my dad pulls the most legendary move I've ever seen. He pulls out a check from 1982, and he says, resident Los Angeles, here you go. Gets the resident discount for all of us. I said, dad, how did you keep that check for 15 years? He never answered. He just smiled. So we all went to Disneyland that day. Amazing. There's something very romantic about the. They had to find a way to have their kids have a nice time, and that's what they had to do.

That's one of my favorite sayings that your mom says, there's always a way.

Yeah.

And she and your dad were always very creative.

Very creative. You know, I later found out my mom was, like, calling the soccer league, like, hey, we can't afford the fees. Like, what can we do? And they were like, if you chalk the fields before the game, will, like, wave the feet. My mom was freaking chalking fields. We didn't even know this. I didn't know this till my twenties. Just to get us to be able to play soccer, like, that is crazy. And. And I think what my dad and that example and my mom and so many examples is like, we're going to find the family joy in whatever we have to do. If we're pulling over on the side of the road and eating lunch that my mom made, like, there's joy in that. It's not that we're less than anybody else, that we can't eat at some restaurant. It's just, this is what we do. This is family. And I see that in so many lessons now. I look back on what my parents taught me and I talk to them, but that's a great example.

I want you guys to tell me about how you first met, and more importantly, what were your first impressions of each other?

I remember every.