BG 2.20. Similarities Between Bible and Vedas | Rus-Split | 17.1.91 | Śrīla Gopāl Kṛṣṇa Goswāmī

If you read Prabhupāda lectures, you will see that from 1966 to 1977, when he left the planet, most of his lectures was centered on one basic theme: You are not this body. So we will end our lecture series on this trip this evening with a discussion on this topic, "You are not this body." Okay? This is a very famous verse of the Gita. I am sure I have lectured on this before over here also. Naan, naan, jayate, jayate, vrilate, vrilate, vaa, vaa, kadache, kadache, naayam, naayam, I would give all you devotees a small assignment to do. As you know, I'm going to start traveling from tomorrow, then I'll come back on the 25th morning for the class. Okay, are you devotees ready to take a small assignment? To give them some homework for 9 days. I'm sure in school your devotees are used to doing homework. So in spiritual life also you must do homework, otherwise you don't take spiritual life seriously. So are you all ready for the homework? Is everyone ready? Yes. At the end of the class, I'll give you 3 verses to learn in the next 9 days. And when I come on the 25th, I'll test all of you on these 3 verses. And one of the 3 verses is going to be this verse which we are going to discuss today. Ready for that? Yes. Okay. I'm really going to test all of you on that, okay? Okay. Najaite mriyate vākadaache nāyam bhūtam bhāvita vāna-bhūya. Ajo nite śāśvadā yamprāṇo nāhanyate anyamāne śrīle. If you learn this one verse, then you can preach Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy to anyone on this planet. This verse is one of the most important verses of the entire Bhāgavad-gītā. Prabhupāda has lectured on this verse and quoted this verse hundreds of times. So let us examine the points that are being mentioned in the verse and in the purport. The main theme of the verse, of course, is that the soul is eternal. Na jāyate mṛyate vā kadācem. No birth for the soul, no death for the soul. Dusya is eternal. So in material life, due to ignorance, we think that with the termination of this body everything will end. But that is wrong. Death is nothing but a change of dress. Just like you throw your old garments and wear new garments, the soul throws away one body and takes on another body. In the Bhāgavatam, there's a nice example given They are just like a caterpillar. A caterpillar, when it is moving from one leaf to another, it leaves one leaf only when it has taken a grip on the other leaf. So similarly, the Bhāgavatam explains that the living entity leaves one body when the next body has already been decided. So as long as we identify with this body, as long as you think this body is your real self, Obviously you cannot understand the nature of the soul. Prabhupāda explains in the purport how the body goes through 6 stages of development. First stage of development is birth. Next stage is growth. Then maintenance. Then production of by-products. And then old age. And ultimately death. Now, why does body go through these 6 stages of development? The soul remains constant. The body may change, but the soul doesn't change. Our body is changing every day. If you look through the photo album in your house, or pictures when you were young baby, and now you look so different. So it doesn't take much argument to convince anyone that the body is changing, because everybody knows that. But unfortunately, because people are not educated in spiritual science, They don't know the position of the eternal soul. So spiritual life means understanding the position of the soul. This is known as the ABC of spiritual life. ABC of spiritual life is you are not this body. The materialist will say, what is the proof that there is soul? So Prabhupada explains in the purport, the proof is consciousness. As long as consciousness is there, The living entity will reply to you. But when the soul is not there, doesn't matter how loudly you might shout, but nobody will reply to your question. And the measurement of this soul is only 1/10,000th of the tip of a hair. So this soul can never be dried, can never be moistened. This soul can never be cut, can never be burnt. It can never be measured. It can never be seen. It never changes. These are some of the transcendental characteristics of the soul. So this description of the soul is truly amazing. If you talk to the materialist and tell them this soul is 1/10,000th of the tip of your hair, it never dies, it is the source of all the energy you have, they will not believe it. Therefore, in the 29th verse of this chapter, Kṛṣṇa says, Some look on the soul as amazing. Some describe him as amazing. And others, even after hearing about him, do not understand it at all. So we, you are not this body. This is a very common statement that you hear in his call. So realizing that this body is a temporary cover for the soul, the intelligent entity must prepare, must prepare for his next birth. In the Bhāgavatam, 3rd Canto, Devādhūti inquired from her son Kapiladeva, "How is it decided whatever birth one will get in the next body?" And Kapiladeva replied, Kaṇmānā dēvā netreṇa danto deho papattaye striyā praveshto udāra bhūm-sovṛta-kṇaśrayaḥ, that based upon the activities of the living entity, our next life is decided. And Lord Kāpiladeva said, "There are many witnesses to every activity that you are performing." Dāiva naitreṇa. Naitreṇa is a Sanskrit word which means eyes. Dāiva means devtas, demigods. So every activity that you and I perform is being witnessed by several witnesses. Prabhupāda once told us a story which is related to this verse. Prabhupāda used to study in Scottish College in Calcutta. So at that time there were many British professors in India. So one day one professor came to Prabhupāda and said, "You Hindus believe in reincarnation, but who is going to see all the activities that you perform? Where is the witness? How do you know what you do?" Prabhupāda said, "At that time I could not answer." That was Prabhupāda's humility. But the answer is The Paramātmā and several other demigods, they are all witnesses to your activities. The materialists, like in all the airports, they have this X-ray machine. You are carrying a big trunk, it will go through the X-ray machine and they will be able to see what is inside that trunk. The materialists have manufactured a camera that can take pictures of everything from a distance of 100,000 feet and more. So you think Kṛṣṇa can't have everything witnessed through His different agents? One witness to your activities is Paramātmā. Another is the demigod in charge of air. Another witness is the sun. Another witness is the moon. Another witness are the stars. Another witness is the demigod in charge of air. So where will you run and hide now? There's nowhere left to hide. Any activity you do is going to be either in the day or in the night. So you may say, 'No, no, no, the four, my walls are very thick and nobody, the sun and the moon cannot see inside the room.' But the sun and moon can see everywhere, but you cannot see that they are seeing you. And you can't live without air for one second. Can you live without air? So the demigod in charge of air is everywhere. Wherever air is there, the demigod is watching it. So they are all watching everything you and I do. The materialists do not believe in this. They think We are pessimistic, cowards, failures in society, and now we are taking an easy way out, worshipping God and talking about life after death. So the materialist will always accuse the spiritualist, and the spiritualist will always feel sorry for the materialist. Prabhupāda once wrote an article, "Who is Crazy?" In that article, Prabhupāda analyzed two different groups of individuals in society. The devotee and the non-devotee. So Prabhupada said, the karmi, the non-devotee, thinks the devotees are crazy. They think we are crazy to follow four regulative principles, get up at 3:30, chant the names of Kṛṣṇa, same name day in and day out. And the mature devotee, devotees are thinking, "Oh, the poor man has got a human birth. Instead of using it correctly, he is just using it like the animals." So Prabhupada can close that it is the non-devotee who is crazy, not the devotee. So we must understand soul can never die. Materialists are full of hypocrisy. They will not believe in the soul. Then when the person dies, why do they say he has gone away? You don't believe in the soul, so the body is dead, it is there in front of you. Keep it in your room, keep it with you all your life. Why do you want to cry? He has gone, my father has gone away, my wife has gone away. When the body is there, how can it go away? Am I right what I am saying? If you were this body, then why do you say he has gone away? When the person dies. So that means you acknowledge there is something in the body that is beyond the body. Do you understand this simple example? Yes. So this is the Dusha. So there are so many examples we can give. I am just giving, illustrating the simple point. We must understand that the soul never dies. In the Vedas it is explained the living entity is eternal, which means nityam, and God is also nityam or eternal. But there is one big difference between the two. One eternal is maintaining all other eternals. Nityo nityanam cetana cetananam eko bhavnam vidati kamam. Living entity is eternal, Lord is eternal, but one supreme eternal is maintaining all other eternals. So the Lord is the cause of everything and the source of everything. Now where is the soul situated? The soul is situated in the heart. So our materialist friends say, if the soul is in heart, so what happens? These days heart transplant is a very common thing. So what happens? That means the soul of Mr. A goes into Mr. B. If the soul is sitting on the heart and when you do a heart transplant operation, then what happens? Along with the heart, does the soul also change? Who knows the answer? Soul is situated in, you know how to say, current of prana, different pranas near heart. Quiet, quiet, quiet, no discussion. Yes, not exactly in the heart, in the region of heart. Heart area. Yes. Hey, Tolka. Okay, so I had explained this point earlier to you all, but I think you all have forgotten, so I'll repeat it again. It's a very simple answer. When I give you the answer, you will feel sorry you didn't give it. The heart is only the seat on which the soul is sitting. So when you do transplantation of heart, you're not disturbing the soul in any case. You're just changing the seat. Just like I'm sitting on this seat here. Now if you change my seat, what difference does it make to me? So all that modern science has done is change the seat of the heart. That's all. The heart is changed, the seat of the soul. Do you understand now? Is that clear? You must know these arguments because when you preach to the materialists, they will try and defeat you. They'll try and convince you there's no soul, that is eternality, you're just being brainwashed by the people. I say, we are not being brainwashed, but they are so brainwashed. We are just trying to remove the brainwashing effect. Just like Prabhupāda used to give us a story. Once there was a deaf husband. The deaf husband told his wife, 'Please come here.' The wife was in the kitchen cooking prasad for the husband. But the husband waited, the wife did not come. Then the husband again said, 'Please come here.' The wife said, 'I'm coming, wait 5 minutes.' But then the husband got so impatient, he says, 'Are you deaf? You can't hear? I'm calling you for such a long time.' So Prabhupāda explained that actually the husband was deaf. His wife was replying, 'I'm coming,' but because he was deaf, he could not hear. But he says, "Are you deaf?" So Prabhupada said that materialists are all brainwashed, but they are trying to say that we are brainwashed. So the proof of consciousness is— the proof of soul is consciousness. And in the purport, Prabhupada gives a nice example of the sun which may be covered by the cloud sometimes. So just because sometimes the sun is covered by the clouds, you cannot see the sun, but you can still see the rays of the sun as they come through the clouds. So similarly, You can't see the soul, you can't cut it, anything, but you can experience the presence of the soul by consciousness. Prabhupada in the concluding lines of the purport quotes from Katha Upanishad where it is explained, two birds sitting on the tree, one is just enjoying the fruits and the other is witnessing. So the Paramātmā and the jīvātmā are represented by these two birds. One is just enjoying the fruits, and the other is just waiting, "When is this person going to give up his independence and turn to Me?" And when the Paramātmā sees that the jīvātmā is turning towards Him for direction, then the Paramātmā gives the jīvātmā all help on the journey back to Godhead. So we must understand, we must not forget that the living entity is eternal. The body is perishable. The body is just a covering for the soul. For the soul there is never birth nor death. In other words, the soul is eternal. And once you understand you are not this body, then when the senses are agitating for sense pleasure, you will not satisfy them. Once you are convinced that this body is different from the soul, then, then you can reject the desires of the senses. Prabhupāda used to give an example. You may polish the cage of the bird, even make the cage of the bird gold, pure gold, but if you don't feed the bird inside, what is the value of that beautiful cage? So similarly, you may have all the modern technology, modern facilities, big house, big car, big degree, big office, but if you are not taking care of the soul, what is the value of all this? Therefore Prabhupāda said, "Present civilization is nothing but deluxe edition of animals." Do you understand this example? Deluxe edition of animals. So we must understand spiritual knowledge through the scriptures and the bona fide spiritual master, not through speculation. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now there's one more thing I had promised your devotees this morning that I would lecture on in the evening. But what is that topic? I want to spend 10 minutes discussing that because I promised you all. So I will lecture on points of similarity between the Bible and the Vedic scriptures. Now this can be a very, very long lecture, but since we are going to— but I'll spend only 15 minutes, so I will just summarize the points in brief. Okay, so there are many points of similarity between the Bible and the Vedic scriptures. You will be amazed how many points of similarity there are. About a year and a half ago, I visited the Kremlin Church inside, and I was so amazed to see that inside the whole church it is decked, it is painted with Jesus Christ Leela. So Bible says man is made in God's image. What does this mean? That God has a form. And then the Christians turn around and say Why are you worshipping idols? They forget that it is the Bible who says man is made in God's image. So the first point of similarity that I have observed is that the Bible also acknowledges that God ultimately is a person, and that is the key point in the Vedic texts also. Of course, the Vedas talk about the impersonal aspect of self, God realization, but they conclude that the highest platform of self-realization is worshipping God in His Bhagavan feature. So man is made in God's image, but there is one difference. God is transcendental and man is limited. God is unlimited, we are limited. Just because we are made in God's image doesn't mean you start thinking, "Oh, I am God." No, I am Narayana, I am Narayana. You are Narayana Das, not Narayana. So God is a person, but He is full of transcendental attributes that I discussed in the class, in the Bhagavatam class in the last 2-3 days. Another point of similarity between the Bible and the Vedas is the position of the soul. Bible says, "What shall I do if thou gainest the whole world but suffer the loss of your eternal soul?" You may gain the whole world, you may become Mr. Rockefeller, the richest man in the world, but if your soul is— has been— if you haven't engaged in spiritual activities, then you've lost the soul. So you must understand that The soul is eternal. So unless you take care of the soul, everything else is useless. So Bible clearly accepts the principle that the soul is eternal. And Bible also accepts this principle that material progress or material achievement is nothing in comparison to saving the soul. Same point is there in the Vedas. Save the soul first. If we, just like Prabhupada used to give an example,— that there was once a man who was being drowned. Another man ran, he jumped in the river to save him. But actually the man was lost. But the man came back just with his coat and hat and started telling all the villagers, "See, I saved this man from drowning." But the man was gone, only his hat and coat came back. So the Bible says, "As you sow, you shall reap." This is nothing but the law of karma. Am I right? As you sow, you shall reap. Bible doesn't say you can do anything, you will get the same result. It says, "No, as you sow you shall reap." And Kṛṣṇa says in Gītā, ye yatham aṁ prapadeyante, all of them as they surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Kṛṣṇa doesn't say I give everyone the same reward. He says, "No, based on the surrender I reward them." So you should not think that the law of karma is only there in the Vedic scriptures. The law of karma is there even in your day-to-day life. If somebody works very hard in the factory, he gets a good raise. But if somebody doesn't work hard, then he doesn't get the same raise. So this principle, as you sow, you shall reap, is true in the Vedic scriptures, it's true in the Bible, it's true in day-to-day life. Then the Bible also talks about heaven and hell. Heaven and hell means reward and punishment. If you act nicely, you're rewarded, and if you act improperly, you're punished. So the Vedic scriptures also say reward and punishment. Bhagavad-gītā says: urdhvāṁ kacchanti satvaḥ sthaḥ madhyaḥ kacchanti tamaḥ saḥ. Bhagavad-gītā says those who act piously, they are promoted to heavenly planets. Otherwise they take their birth in the middle planets or they take their birth in the lower planets. That means based on how we act, we are promoted to upper, middle, or lower planets. Then the Bible talks about glorification of God by chanting His holy names. Bible says, "Thou shall always chant the names of the Lord." Bhagavad-gītā says, "Sattva-tam-ketāyaṁ tōmām." Always chant My glories. So chanting on the names of God is an accepted path even by the Christians. In Montreal, Canada, I regularly go to Canada. In Montreal, Canada, there is a Christian group and they are pure vegetarians and they chant the names of God all the— they try to chant all the time. But these days no one seems to care about it. But these days nobody respects this principle of chanting the names of God. Even the Christian priests, they chant for hardly 5 minutes in a whole day. So when the Bible says, thou shall always chant on the names of the Lord, that means it acknowledges that the names of the Lord are absolute. That means it acknowledges that the names of God are omniscient. That means it acknowledges that there is no difference between the names of God and God. These are exactly the same points which have been stated in the Vedas. Why do we chant the names of God? Why don't we chant the names of Pepsi Cola or something else? Because the names of God are absolute. You try chanting any other name for 1 hour nonstop, you will get fried. But the names of Kṛṣṇa, you chant morning to night, you never get tired. But the materialist cannot understand this. Prabhupāda used to give the example, the materialist They want the bottle of honey, but they will just lick the bottle from outside and try and see whether the honey inside is sweet or not. You are not going to know how sweet the honey is by licking the glass, the bottle of the bottle, honey bottle. You have to taste the honey inside. So you have to really try the chanting of the holy names, then you will know the effect of the holy name. So chanting the names of God is accepted even in the Quran and other scriptures, but it's just that nobody wants to do it. Last time when I was here, I had gone to Baku in Azerbaijan. So I was very pleased to see that in Baku I saw so many people on the streets with japa mala. Wasn't a big japa mala, but was a— they had some mala with about 20 or 30 beads. So I told the temple president who was driving, I said, "Have they all been chanting the names of Allah in that mala? What is it?" He said, "No, this is just a fashion to carry the malas. They don't chant the names of God." It is just a new style in Baku to carry prayer beads in your hand but not chant on them. So they have mālās, they have prayer beads, but they don't chant the names of God. They just use it for fashion. So, and another point of similarity is Bible says, or Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." Thou shall not kill means no killing of any child of God. Bhagavad-gītā also says, patraṇ pasma phalam toyam, offer me fruit, vegetable with love and I shall accept it. But because the Christians have got so addicted to meat eating, now they say, "No, no, no, that means killing human beings." No, animals is okay. They argue there is no soul in the body, but we argue, of course there is soul in the body. So just like, you know, once about 5 years ago, I had the opportunity to meet the head of the Christian Mission in India. He was about 65, 70 years old. So for the first 10 minutes we exchanged nice pleasantries. He greeted me, I greeted him. He said, "We are doing nice work." I said, "You are doing nice work." So we were good, on good friendly terms. Then next few minutes we talked about religion and how religion was important to society, and we were still on friendly terms. Then I finally brought up this point, but why is it that even though Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill," The Christians still eat flesh. So he said, for 2 minutes he started thinking what he should say. Then he said, the animals have been put on earth for our enjoyment. I said, no, the animals also have a soul, they also have a right to live. They eat, sleep, defend, mate, just like human beings. So he says, the animals don't have rational power. Rational power means thinking power. He said, the animals cannot think. I said, that's not correct. The animal understands all signals. You lift your stick and the dog will run away. You clap your hands and the bird will fly away. And when the cat wants to steal milk from the kitchen, it will only come when there's no one in the kitchen. So I said, how can you say the animals don't have thinking power? So ultimately he got frustrated. He said, you know, I'm not well, I have heart trouble. You must speak to my expert, Dr. Prasad RAVAL. Palazzo something, he said. Speak to somebody else.