God is the Greatest Scientist | BG 10.39 | Rus-Split | Moscow | 9.5.92 |Gopāl Kṛṣṇa Goswāmī Mahārājā

PRASAD RAVAL.

I would like to welcome some honorable scientists and professors who just had Prasad with us, and they are sitting here for the lecture. Is it okay for you all to sit on the floor, or do you want to sit on the chairs? If you want to practice yoga, then you can sit on the floor. Sir, would you like to sit on the floor too? Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya.

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya.

Reading from Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter 10, text 39. We have today is very appropriate for discussion in all situations. Yacchāpi sarvabhūtānām, yacchāpi sarvabhūtānām, vijñāntadham arjunaṁ, vijñāntadham arjunaṁ. Na tad asti vinayasyam. Na tad asti vinayasyam. Maya bhūtam caracaram.

Maya bhūtam caracaram.

Yacchāpi sarva-bhūtānām bijam tadaham arjuna. Na tad asti vinayasyam. Maya bhūtam caracaram. Since we have many people here for the first time, We'll just give a little explanation of how we conduct this Gītā class and a little background to the Bhāgavad-gītā. The Bhāgavad-gītā is compiled in the Sanskrit language. So we were chanting the mantra, that is, we were chanting the words, the verse which was spoken by Kṛṣṇa in Sanskrit thousands of years ago. And the Bhāgavad-gītā forms a part of the Mahābhārata.— the history of ancient India. At one time, the whole planet was called Bharata Varsha, or India. The Bhagavad-gītā contains philosophy. That is, in reality, the summary of the vast Vedic literature. And it is the oldest book of knowledge on this planet. The Bhagavad-gītā is not just a religious book. It is actually a book of knowledge. It's a book of knowledge because it enables us to understand our real identity. And this knowledge was spoken 5,000 years ago to Arjuna on the Battle of Kurukshetra, which is in northern India. But in reality, this knowledge is millions of years old. In the opening lines of the 4th chapter, Krishna explains in 4:1 that he imparted this knowledge to the sun god, Vivasvan. Vivasvan in turn imparted it to Manu, the father of mankind. And Manu in turn imparted it to Ikshvaku. So it is estimated that this knowledge is over 2 million years old. So previously people had very sharp memories. There was no paper industry and roochka industry at that time.

There was no—

because everyone would just hear once and have everything memorized. But then as the weak— as the memory began to get weak,, it became necessary for this knowledge to be recorded. And therefore, 5,000 years ago, it was recorded by Vyāsadeva. But the knowledge is not 5,000 years old. This is the point that we want to establish. The knowledge is over 2 million years old. Now in every verse of the Bhāgavad-gītā, there's a very philosoph— there's a very powerful philosophical message. For example, in the verse that we are studying today, Kṛṣṇa is saying, that he is the generating seed of all causes. Krishna is saying that nothing can exist without me, whether it's moving or unmoving. So everything that you and I see is a result of the Lord's creation. In fact, before we came down to this class, we were talking to our scientist guests, and this is the point that we were making to them, that God is the cause of all causes and the real supreme scientist. And it is a good coincidence that the verse for the day was also on the same theme. So everything has a cause. Nothing comes without a cause. If all of you are sitting here, it is because all of you used your legs to come to the temple. Whether you came by car or metro or bus is another thing, but you made the effort, and that is why you are here. If I'm using a microphone to communicate to you, It is because somebody has placed the microphone, which at one time was manufactured by somebody else. If we are sitting in a building, it's because somebody at some time took the bricks, took the cement, took the other ingredients from earth, put it all together and made this house. That is why you and I are living, are sitting in this building today. So without his potency, nothing can exist. This is the single factor. That identifies a devotee of the Lord. He recognizes that the Lord is the cause of all causes. And those who don't acknowledge the supremacy of God, they try to, they try to conclude that nature is the cause of all causes. But our consistent statement to those who claim that nature is the cause is, who has created nature? What do you define nature to be? The sun and the moon, they are definitely part of nature. The clouds that pour water, that's part of nature. The oceans and the rivers that carry water and mineral resources, that's part of nature. And the mountains that carry minerals, they are also part of nature. And the earth that gives you the fruits, the flowers, and the food to eat, and other natural resources including oil, that's also nature. This is known as earth, water, fire, air, ether. All these things that I have described to you Whether it be mountains or river water or water coming from the clouds or ingredients coming from the earth, these all fall under the heading of earth, water, fire, air, ether. So in Sanskrit language, Krishna says as follows: Bhūmīrāpo nāla-vāyu-kam mana-buddhi eva ca. He says, earth, water, fire, air, ether, these are all my energies. Also he says, mind, intelligence, and false ego, these are also my energies. So whether it is nature that supplies us the resources or whether it is a living entities existing in different forms in different parts of the world, they all are there because they are created by Krishna. There's another verse in the Bhagavad Gita with a similar message. Krishna says, sarva yunisha kaunteya murtaya sambhavanti yaha tasaṁ brahma mahadyo nir aham bija pradāpitā. Aham bija pradāpitā. Bija means seed and Pitta means father. So Krishna says, "Know for certain that I am the seed-giving father of all entities." Just like a woman becomes pregnant when the child is conceived by a male. So similarly, Krishna conceives the creation and hence the creation takes place. It doesn't take place by accident or by chance. Why is it that a certain class of people don't want to recognize God as the cause of all causes? Because they would like themselves to be called the creators. We are ready to accept them as creators, but let them equal the activities that Kṛṣṇa displayed when he was on the planet. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was a young baby, he opened his mouth. And why did he open his mouth? Because some people had complained to his mother that he had swallowed dust. Krishna, when he appears on this planet, he appears as a human being, though he is always superhuman. So Krishna told his mother, "No, I haven't swallowed any dust." His mother didn't believe it. So he opened his mouth and there he showed the whole universe in his mouth to his mother. And when you go and open your mouth to the doctor, what does he do? After seeing inside your throat for 1 minute, he says, "Now close it." And the spoon he puts in your mouth, he throws it away because your mouth is so But when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth, He shows the whole universe. Then on another occasion, Kṛṣṇa lifted the gigantic Govardhana Hill. The Govardhana Hill is huge, over 14 kilometers long. Devotees, when they go to India, they always do the Govardhana parikrama, circumambulation of the Govardhana Hill. So usually by the time they finish their parikrama, they are so tired that they just collapse. So Kṛṣṇa lifted the giant Govardhana Hill with the smallest finger of His left hand. Not just the smallest finger, just the nail of the smallest finger of his left hand. And when he lifted the Govardhana Hill, he lifted it at the time when Indra was pouring unlimited rain to teach the Brihjabāsis a lesson. And rain was falling down in big slabs of ice, and it was as sharp as a sword. And during the period that the Brihjabāsis were under the protection of Govardhana Hill, They did not even feel hungry or thirsty. So for one week they didn't feel any hunger or any thirst. Then on one another occasion, Krishna and Balarama had gone with their cowherd boys for a picnic. Lord Brahmā wanted to test the power of this extraordinary boy. So he stole the cowherd boys' friends and all the cows and calves. Krishna realized what had happened. He didn't want to return home and all the mothers of the cowherd boys would be angry as to where their children were. So he instantly expanded himself into cowherd boys, cows, calves, and when they all returned home, their mothers were even more attached than ever before. So there are unlimited stories. We just gave you a few small examples to show Krishna's superhuman activities. When we worship Krishna as the Supreme Lord, It is not due to some sentimental reasons, but due to rational realization. The realization is the conclusion of the Vedas. Vedeś ca sarvaḥ rehemaiva vedaḥ yau vedānta-ket vedavit eva caham. By all the Vedas I am to be known.

This is what Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā.

So Kṛṣṇa is not somebody's imagination. These days almost everybody has become God. If you go to India, for example, some of these places of pilgrimage, In front of every ashram, the name God is written. A man does a little magic and produces a rasgulla and he becomes God. And even in your country, so many people these days are becoming gods.

It's good business.

But when we worship Kṛṣṇa, we worship the real God who established dharma. Who established dharma because dharma is what distinguishes one from human— between human life and animal life. So through the pages of the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna is telling us what our real constitutional position is, what the position of the Lord is, how material nature is working under Krishna's direction, how time is the representative of the Lord, and how by the correct utilization of one's life one can change his future. We are all destined because of our past karma, but if we correctly utilize our human body, we can change our future. Just like it may be very cold outside, but you can create heat inside internally and it will become warm. So similarly, if you correctly utilize your rare human life and follow the laws of God, then one can utilize this human life for a happy ending. Prabhupada very often used to use the word happy ending, which I have just used. So what does happy ending mean? Who will explain? Happy ending means That at the moment of death, your mind should be rightly situated. Why? Because wherever your mind is at the moment of death, that is where you will be transported. So Vedic philosophy teaches you how to live and how to die. But our understanding of material philosophy neither teaches you how to live nor teaches you how to die. Because if a, if a human society is going to just imitate the activities of the animals consisting of eating, sleeping, defending, mating, then this life is no different from that of the animals. So the basic elements of the Gītā's philosophy in summary are as follows: There is the Lord in control who is the cause of all causes, which we have already explained. But the living entity is part and parcel of God inasmuch as the hand is part and parcel of the body. Or like the, like the leaves of the tree are part of the tree. When the leaves of the tree are separated from the tree, They lose their freshness and they become dry. As long as the sparks are part of the fire, the sparks are effulgent. But when the sparks fall on the ground, they lose their effulgence. So similarly, the living entity, as long as he recognizes his eternal relationship with God, he'll be happy and peaceful. So Gītā explains that just like you and I change our dress, Similarly, the soul is changing bodies. In other words, the body is perishable and the soul is eternal. And how is this body— what is this body composed of? It is composed of the same elements that make this building or this earth. That is earth, water, fire, air, ether. Do you know that there's fire in your body? Normally when you have fire, you call the fire brigade.

But there's—

but when you eat food, your stomach produces fire. And if your stomach doesn't produce fire when you eat, then you have indigestion and you have to go to the doctor or Bhangnitsa. There is water in your body and there's earth in your body. You have the skin, bone. But in addition to earth, water, fire, air, ether, and there's air in your body. So your body has the same elements that this building has, but with a little difference. It has 3 other elements which the building doesn't have. That is mind, intelligence, and false ego. This building doesn't have a mind, doesn't have intelligence. So Krishna explains that just like we throw away our old garments and wear new garments, similarly the soul rejects one body and takes on another body. So the question arises, if the soul is eternal and if the body is perishable, what type of body is the soul going to realize? That will be determined by your actions. Bible says, "As you sow, you shall reap." Bhagavad-gītā says, "ye yatham mām prapadeyante." All of them, as they surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. And in business language, they say, "You get what you pay." Just like now that capitalism has come into your country, you will see so many different prices you have to pay for the same type of activity, for the same type of goods. You can buy a shirt for 100 rubles, you can buy it for 10 rubles. So based on what you, how you, how you act, your next life will be decided. Now, some people want to know, how is this human body that you presently have, how was that decided? So this you've got after going through a long evolutionary process. If you only knew how long this evolutionary process is, you would get so scared to enter into it again. You want to hear the whole cycle? In the beginning, you take your birth as one of the species that lives in water. And there are 900,000 species in this category. Even our scientists, modern-day scientists admit there are thousands of species that live in water. The scientists who are sitting here agree with that. Then there are species that live on earth but cannot move, like the trees and the plants, the Svetoks, you know, so many different. So there are nearly 2 million species that belong to this category. Then there's the species that belong to the insect category. Over 1 million, 1.1 million. The bird category, nearly a million. And then the animal category, 3 million. And human category, 400,000. So after going through all this, you ultimately get a human birth. Do any of you people like standing in long lines for malakko in the morning? Do any of you like standing in long lines for pradakthi? Nobody likes to stand in line. When you get stuck in traffic, how angry you feel? So just imagine how, how many long lines you had to stand in before you got this human birth. And if you misuse it, you'll be sent on back of the, back of the line again. So the Vedic conclusion is utilize this rare opportunity properly. So Bhagavad-gītā establishes the soul doesn't die with the end of the body. Therefore, soul is eternal, body is perishable. This point is not difficult to understand. When a person dies, why do we cry he has died? The body is still there. What is there to cry? But there's something that was in the body that has gone away, and that something is a soul. You look back at a picture of yourself when you, when you were a young child, you will say, this is I when I was 5 years old or 2 years old. But your body looks completely different today. So on what basis do you say this is I when I was 2 years old? There's something that was there in the body then. There's something that is there in the body now. That something is the Ātmā or the soul. So Vedic philosophy enables us to understand what is our real identity. But it doesn't stop at this point. It also tells you how to act. How to act for the pleasure of the Lord. Just like we see that Arjuna. Arjuna had his own concept of how he should act. But then when he surrendered to Krishna's concept, he became peaceful and happy. Those who know the Gītā, who have read the Gītā, know that Arjuna initially was hesitant about participating in the battle. But when Kṛṣṇa told him, "Act for My pleasure without considering happiness or distress, victory or defeat," then Arjuna surrendered to it.

And then he became peaceful.

So Kṛṣṇa says in the 3rd chapter, yajñātāt karmṇo niyatā lokeyaṁ karmā bandhana. That means if you act for the pleasure of the Lord, then you become free from the cycle of birth and death. And if you don't act according to the laws of the Lord, then you become entangled. Just like when you follow the laws of the state, you may remain free, but if you violate the laws of the state, then you become a criminal and liable for punishment. So Kṛṣṇa says through the chapters on karma yoga that one should learn to act for the pleasure of the Lord. And how one should act for the pleasure of the Lord, that knowledge is obtained through the agency of the bona fide spiritual master. So the Lord is the cause of all causes. That is real knowledge. Knowledge in general, in everyday language, means that which destroys ignorance. And what is the principal ignorance that we are all suffering from? That I'm this body. We spend hours in front of the mirror trying to make this body more beautiful. We feel flattered when somebody says, oh, you're beautiful. But this body is going to get mixed with dirt in no time. Prabhupāda used to quote this statement from the Bible which says, "Thus thy art and thus thou shall become." So this is what this body is. This body that we are so proud of, it's going to become dust. It's just a matter of time. If you bury the body as a Hindu, as the Christians and the Muslims do, the ants will gradually eat up the body. Of course, I don't know what the price of a coffin is in your country, but in America they sell coffins for even $20,000. In America, even dying is big business. There are big, big companies that are called funeral homes. So what do these funeral homes do? After death, they bring your body in a nice air-conditioned room, and before they bury the body, they do a lot of makeup on your body. Why? What's the point in doing makeup to a dead body? The materialists have a point. They want all the relatives and friends who come to say dasvidaniya to the body You see, no, no, no. They want all the relatives and friends who come to say dasvidaniya to the body to see that the man died in a very smiling mood. So they do so much makeup that many times even the relatives cannot recognize the body. So, and they put the body in a, in a, in a coffin made of very expensive teak wood. And nice velvet padding and soft mattress inside. So even if you have the best teak wood in the world, still the ants will enter the body after a few days. So the statement of the Bible, thus thy art, thus thou shall become, is very true. So the real identity is the soul that lives on. This is great science, understanding the movement of the soul. And this is great science, understanding one's real position, constitutional position. Just like the sunshine destroys darkness, just like in the night if you're walking on the street and in the Moscow or anywhere, a man will get scared because there's nobody else walking on the street. He's scared that somebody may come and steal him, stab him, whatever. But in the daytime, but in the morning when the sun rises, the fear goes away and confidence is built. So similarly, this spirit, this Bhagavad-gītā's knowledge is like the sun that destroys darkness. Due to darkness, we identify with the body. And when you have this educational knowledge, spiritual knowledge, then you identify with your true position, which is servant of God. So we recognize the Lord as the cause of all causes, as Krishna is saying in this verse. The materialists that don't want to accept the supremacy of God have to surrender to God, but at the moment of death.

So looking at it from any angle, you can't deny that there is a God in control. Just like you see the Sun, the Sun is shining from such a great distance and the Sun is giving us energy nonstop since the history of, since the beginning of creation. And you can never hear of an instance when the Sun may have had a power failure or whatever. The Sun evaporates the water, keeps the water in the form of clouds for months, and then again releases the water in the form of rain. And you plant a seed, and there you see agricultural fruits come out, trees grow. Even if you look at your own human body, you will see your own human body is such a complicated machinery. So all this is there because there is a superior brain directing everything. So if the scientific community accepts the position of the Supreme Lord, then science can be used for constructive purposes rather than destructive purposes. Science has made life easier, but science has also made life complicated. Pollution, which is such a big problem all over the world, is a direct byproduct of industrialization and using chemicals. Then the creation of nuclear bombs and other, uh, destructive machinery has made killing so easy. So we feel that everyone accepts the supreme position of God, and recognizing God as the Supreme Scientist, and if they agree to abide by the laws of God, then the whole world will become a very happy place to live in. Everybody is looking for happiness. Under communism, people were looking for happiness, and under capitalism, people are looking for happiness. And when you go to a small village or a big city, everybody is searching for the same thing. And you may travel to any part of the world, the goal is the same: become happy. The problem is people do not know how to find this happiness. And there is nobody here who is ready to give direction. The politicians can't give direction because they don't know themselves which way to go. The scientists are also not able to give direction because they themselves do not know which direction to go. Even if one is a Nobel laureate, the Vedic scriptures explain that everyone is subject to making 4 types of mistakes. One has a tendency to cheat, he makes mistakes, he gets illusioned, and his sense Our senses are imperfect. Even if you have 20/20 vision, you can only see each other if you have electricity or sunshine. The eagle has very powerful eyes. The eagle can identify a dead corpse from a distance of miles, but it can only see as long as there is electricity or light. So recognizing that we are all subject to these mistakes, intelligence would indicate that we should accept the teachings of somebody who doesn't make any mistakes, and that is the teachings of the Supreme Lord. So we have the teachings of the Lord that are contained in the Vedic literature. Vedic literature is really education. It is not religion. Actually, the Sanskrit word Veda, V-E-D-A, Veda means knowledge. Actually, there are many words of the Russian language that are also derived from Sanskrit, like Agni, Dwar, there are so many. So the Vedic knowledge is for entire humanity, not just for a particular section of the society. And Vedic knowledge is that human body is realized after long process of evolution. Darwin also believed in the evolutionary theory, and many scientists believe in evolution, but they think that this evolution which is coming up to lower animals ultimately started, originated from matter. But the Vedic Vedic answer is different. The Vedic answer is that life does not come from matter, rather matter comes from life. And yes, evolution is taking place from lower species to higher species, and ultimately when the human body is realized, it is meant for a special goal, that is to establish a relationship with God. So the Vedic injunction is that one may stay in the profession that one has as long as the profession is not against religious principles, but his life should be so molded that one can also follow the laws of God. And if one follows the laws of God in pursuing his regular life and does by the supreme direction of the scriptures, then one will be happy in whatever he executes. Now with that little bit of introduction, I would like to get a little feedback from all of you. What do you think about this outline that we have presented?

Before we can support or deny this position, first of all we should understand this position thoroughly.

We think it is very correct.

What do you understand by God?

What do you understand by God? Different people have different understanding of God. Just like I remember about 6 years ago, I regularly used to meet with a group of Russian scientists who were working in Kenya at that time, and they would not believe in God.

So they would—

when I would ask them, where is everything coming from? They would say nature. And then when I would ask them, "Who is controlling nature?" They would say nature. And they had no answer. So we will now tell you what is our understanding of God. God is a person, but he is a spiritual person. God is the cause of all causes, the creator, the maintainer. Just like you and I are sitting here, but we can hear the noise of the cars going up and down on the main road. Now we know that the cars are moving up and down Because there is a police commissioner regulating the traffic of Moscow. It is not automatic. A child when he sees a samalot flying in the sky, he thinks the plane is running on its own. But you know that there is a pilot piloting it. So God is the creator, the maintainer of the whole show. If the sun sets, Adna minan, if the sun rises every morning, sets every evening, wind is blowing, the stars are shining in the sky, the moon is shining in the night, it is all going on because there is somebody controlling and directing it. What do you think to be God?

How does your understanding of God correspond to understanding of such philosophers as Spinoza?

To be very honest, I am not very familiar with this philosophy. If you tell me in one or two lines what are the key points of this philosophy, then I can tell you one.

Spinoza considers God's substance and nature are similar. Items, and it is just very similar, very like conceptions. God, nature, and substance he considered is the cause of itself.

So this philosophy is almost as good as atheistic philosophy. I'll tell you why. First of all, it says God and nature is one. Secondly, it says that nature created nature. So this philosophy is not different from from the other atheistic philosophy that is prevalent in modern society today. Whereas our philosophy, the Vedic philosophy, is that there is a God in control. The God is the cause of all causes, and mankind must establish his relationship with God. Just like your hand, your hand has a function as long as it is connected with the body, but if the hand is separated from the body, then the hand loses all value. So as long as we are connected with God, then we have value.

What is your conception about absolute?

Well, that's what I briefly gave you. Our conception of absolute is, first of all, he has a form. Bible also says man is made in God's image, but he does not age with the passage of time like you and I age. We get old, we get diseased, we die, we have to go to the doctor, we have to go to the hospital, but God does not age. Age or the passage of time. His body is transcendental. In the Vedas it is said, "Satchidananda vigraha." This means in English, "His body is eternal, full of knowledge and blissful." So that is the nature of his body. It is full of knowledge, it is blissful and it is eternal. But he can do the function of any one part of his body, any function with any part of his body. I can explain to you many wonderful pastimes which the Lord exhibited when he was a young child. But I'm afraid at this time if I reveal them to you, you may think that we are just brainwashed and we are just listening to fairy tales. We will tell them to you gradually, but first we will answer your initial question. No, I like your question. Some more questions?

Maybe later.

Okay.

When in Kenya scientists answered that nature creates itself, You considered it was not logical, but he can put a logical question. If you consider God has origins, who created God?

I'll be glad to answer this question. Nobody creates God, that's why he is God. If there was somebody who created God, then that somebody would be called God. Now let me explain to you how nature works. The different ingredients of nature: earth, water, fire, air, ether, Now all this running of nature is being directed by a body called demigods, and in total there are 33 crore demigods, 33 million. This is— and these demigods appear to be the direct cause of everything that you and I see. But these demigods are subordinate and created by a supreme god. So that supreme god is the cause of everything, just like You may have various ministers who are in charge of different departments in your country, but ultimately there is a president, maybe Yeltsin, or yesterday was Gorbachev. So, there are demigods who appear to be the direct cause, but they themselves have also another cause behind them. So God has— the Supreme God has no cause. Therefore He is God. If somebody created Him, then that somebody is God.

He considers that from logical point of view, there is no difference between the answers that gave scientists in Kenya and your answer.

They answer, "Nature created nature," and we answered, "God creates everything." I find it hard to understand how you don't see the difference. The difference is as distinct as it is between day and night. When you say, "Nature created nature," you take away the credit and the work done by God. Nature cannot expand itself unless nature is also directed by somebody. So God is the creator of nature, God is the creator of human beings, God is the creator of life. I'm not saying, all I'm saying is, if you say that what the scientist in Kenya said and what I said is the same thing, then maybe I didn't express myself properly to you.

According to, uh, Spinoza's understanding, substance and Nature are identical to God. It is initial cause of all causes.

How can nature and God be one? Nature— there's somebody who has— just like this house. This house has been built because some workers got together, transported the bricks, and put it together. So this house does not manifest itself on its own. So how can nature manifest itself? Somebody has to work on— you as scientists should know How scientific the whole earth is. You and I are living on earth, walking on the earth, but below the earth you have all the natural resources, and below that you even have water, oceans of water. So you don't think there was some scientific arrangement that had to be worked out so that all these things would be there? And you are giving so much importance to the statements of this author, Simons, but why don't we acknowledge the the greatness of Krishna. Krishna has given us the Vedic literature. God, as I said, is infallible. He never makes mistakes. So why don't we take the work of the Supreme Scientist and have trust in Him rather than have trust in philosophers, scholars, even if they are Nobel laureates. We know they are smokers, drunkards, and, you know, these evil things, and gradually they die with the passage of time. If you can find a scientist that can create something like a human body, we will surrender to him. If you can find a scientist that can work out an arrangement where a man and a woman get together and they have children, we will surrender to him. If you can have a scientist who can produce a bulb as powerful as the sun which will never get reduced in heat, then we can surrender to him. You see, the material scientists create one test tube baby, and it hits the headlines and they get Nobel Prizes. But God is producing millions of test tube babies every second. So all we are trying to say is God is the greatest philosopher. Why should we not accept his philosophy? He is the greatest scientist. There is no one more intelligent than him. The whole world is trying to understand this human body, all the scientists of the world since history, and they still can't understand it.

Why did so many religion movements appear?

That's a good question. Well, actually there is only one religion. Religion means to follow the laws of God. And religion means because you are following the laws of God, then naturally you don't do anything against the laws of God. That means you give up everything sinful and undesirable. Just like if you are a law-abiding citizen of the country, then automatically you have to follow the laws and not do anything that is against the government laws. So if so many religions today have cropped up or developed around the world, it is because People want to accept religion, but they don't want to accept real religion. Like, we don't mind if somebody practices Christian faith, Hindu faith, Jewish faith, Islamic faith, as long as they are living by the principles of scriptures and they are avoiding sinful activities. Does that answer your question?

Why are there so many conflicts among followers of various religions like Islam and Christianity? And even up to bloodshed.

I gave you a partial reply. People want to have religion, but they don't want to follow real religion. Just like people are advertising on television, surrender to Jesus Christ, he died for your sins, so you can do what you want and Jesus Christ will protect you. So if you want to surrender to Jesus Christ, you must follow Jesus Christ's teachings. Otherwise, surrender to Jesus Christ means nothing. Do you work for an institute Yes. Okay, so since you work for an institute, you have to follow the laws of the institute. Then you can work there. You can't say, I'll work for the institute and I'll do what I want. So people are saying, Jesus Christ died for our sins, so I can do anything I want, do all the nonsense, and I'll be protected just because I'm taking shelter of Jesus Christ. You may pardon your son once, twice, three times, four times for a mistake he makes, but not every day. Eugene gave just a man's introduction.

He is a mathematician, collaborator of Moscow University. Next year, he says, there should be a worldwide congress of unification all religions, of all religions, in London.

In London?

And what is the role of Bhaktivedanta Institute and especially our Moscow section of Bhaktivedanta Institute?

At this conference or in general?

Well, he is interested in this concrete conference.

Frankly, we are not involved with this conference. Of course, when the conference takes place, we will also participate and emphasize the importance of religious principles. But the Bhakti Rana Institute and ISKCON and our various agencies, they are always holding conferences around the world and meeting other people, even different religious leaders, telling them the importance of following the real laws of God. This is the first time, to come to a Bhaktirana Institute program, sir?

Not first time because we already met once on one of our programs. So this is second time.

Any comments from you, sir?

Here Petrovic said this is not the first time that this congress was convened and it is under auspices of Vivekananda Mission, 100 years ago.

We have some very nice vegetarian snacks for all of you, Prasad. Well, we will be glad to answer more questions. Please don't feel embarrassed. We are used to getting even heavier questions than what we have got so far. I actually had the opportunity to come to your country first in 1976, and at that time I met many professors at Moscow University and Leningrad University. And I remember that at that time at least, they were so heavily against even the concept of God that they had such strong views. Now of course times have changed and, uh, God has a much greater awareness in your country than at that time.

Basically, he said we are a little bit more educated, more—

Valerie, can you give a copy of Bhagavad-gītā? Have you— there is a very— yeah, oh, come, come. There is a very ancient book. I heard— no, I want one with a jacket cover. Show me one Bhāgavatam also and one Bhāgavad-gītā. You see, you must have one or two Bhāgavatams also. You all must have read about many philosophers, Even Shakespeare, how many books did Shakespeare write? 100, 200 the most. But the Vedic philosophy is so vast that even if this whole room was full of the books, it would only be a small portion of the Vedas that are left, that are there. So this is the Bhagavad Gita. This contains the summary of all the Vedic scriptures. You must have seen the advertisements in television and billboards at metro stations published in the name of Nambussal. Now Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, this is the translator when he was in Moscow. This picture shows when he was in Moscow in 1972. So he has translated these Vedic texts into English, and from English they have been further translated in over 100 languages of the world, including Russian. The original Vedic knowledge is in what you call Sanskrit, and as some of you may know, Almost all languages are derived from Sanskrit. So this is an ancient Sanskrit. This knowledge was spoken 5,000 years ago. But 5,000 years ago, this knowledge was spoken only on this earthly planet. But the knowledge is not 5,000 years old. It is over 2 million years old. And but if you read this book, you will see, oh boy, this is exactly what is happening today. Because this contains eternal knowledge, which is known as Sanatana Dharma. So we in the Krishna Consciousness movement and— for example, for the last 30 years, mankind has been trying to go to outer space. They are trying to understand that there is life in outer space. Yes, there is life in outer space, but this information is there in the Srimad Bhagavatam, compiled 5,000 years ago. But scientists have just come to acknowledge it now. So we have hundreds of quotations to back up everything. You are atheist, and there is really no atheist, because even in the Atheist at the moment of death acknowledges the supremacy of God. The atheist encounters God in the form of death. So unfortunately, due to the material education which does not give any spiritual knowledge, people are not educated in the science of God. Only have one request, that you all have to finish the whole thing, okay? Because this is very special foodstuff, so don't leave anything behind on the plate. Actually, I'll tell you, sometimes people don't agree with our philosophy and we have no problem because we are still good friends with everyone. But everyone agrees that the prasad, the food we serve, is the best they can ever get. I'll tell you, about 6 months ago I was in Azarbaijan and one big journalist had come to interview me. So he was very fanatical. He was saying, "What are you people doing preaching this Vedic philosophy in this part of this country?" and so on. Anyway, We didn't argue with him on the philosophy, but we just had some nice dinner with him. The next day he came back to the lecture and he was very friendly. He said, "I was wrong. I could see after eating your food that you people are very good from your heart." The matter improved spirit.

It turns out that matter— he says this, Professor. I wonder if he said that matter improved spirit.

No, when matter is touched by spirit for a spiritual cause, then it becomes very tasty. Just like you may be a big scientist, if you use your scientific background to prove the supremacy of God, then your scientific contribution will be greater than what it is now. He agrees with that.

Well, as a matter of fact, I have told you that Professor Gundarov, he makes very interesting scientific research on influence of spiritual mode of life on our health.

He already published Actually, I understand you've done some research on influence of spiritual life on health. I will give you some very useful information. My experiences, and this is based on 25 years of experience, our Krishna conscious devotees all over the world have the lowest medical bills ever. Very rarely they fall sick, very rarely they have— they never have any major disease. Only thing is cold, cough, which anybody can get. Due to change of weather? Because they lead a controlled life. All diseases that are there today are there due to an uncontrolled life. Why are people getting AIDS? Because they want to have sex without discrimination. Why are people getting different types of cancer? Because they want to eat meat, which is the number one source of cancer. So our devotees, we, according to the Vedic scriptures, man must abstain from sinful activities. And the sinful activities fall in 4 categories: eating of meat, fish, and eggs; taking intoxication— vodka, liquor, tea, coffee, cigarettes; then indulging in gambling; and having sex life against the laws of God. In the— according to God's law, in human society there is a system of marriage, and there are certain guidelines how one utilizes the marriage to serve God. But when you don't follow the laws of God, you want to have free sex, with anyone and everyone, then fine, material nature will tell you to take AIDS. You can't commit a crime and then tell the judge, "Please don't punish me." So you will see that Kṛṣṇa conscious people, even our children, even in America when our children are born, when the mothers take them to doctors, the doctors say, "No, no, no, you must feed these children meat, otherwise the children will die." But after some time the doctors are amazed. They say, "Your children are so healthy." I haven't seen a doctor in 25 years. That's for minor things like cold or cough, nothing beyond that. So if you lead a controlled disciplined life then your body is also healthy.

Do you agree that our health also depends upon our mind, upon our system of thinking?

Yes.

Not only upon our meals.

It is said the face is the index of the mind. Now the mind is not content anywhere. The mind is not satisfied. I know a man who has 100 cars and he is not satisfied. You people sitting in the mosque are thinking everybody in America is happy. But in America people have 4, 4, 5, 5 cars and they are also miserable.

The mind is never satisfied.

The mind is not satisfied because you have unlimited desires. So for the mind to be satisfied, you have to engage yourself in service to God and then you will be satisfied. So one who takes to God's teachings, he is satisfied because his mind is controlled and his habits are controlled. Please finish.

All of you have to—

we are not going to insist that you agree with what Bhaktivedanta Institute has stated today, but we are going to insist you finish everything on your plate. It is said in English language, healthy, wealthy, and wise. So eating this food stuff will make you healthy, wealthy, and wise. You're welcome to come here any day you want with your family and join us for lunch. Every day hundreds of people come join us for lunch. Many people come all over the world. You are eating very slowly, madam.

Trotsch told that he is very much pleased with our food. He likes it very much.

Well, we would like all of you to also read the Bhagavad-gītā on a regular basis, and you will find that this Bhagavad-gītā will give you peace of mind. The politicians are not going to give you peace of mind. Don't think that now that you switched over from communism to capitalism, all your problems are over. The problems will not be over till you understand your relationship with God.

Professor Gundaroff asked a question. What was that? Just at this moment we had prasadam. He asked which religion, faith can you advise to those atheists who begin their spiritual life?

Well, I may be a little biased, but I'll tell you the truth. I can just say try reading the Bhagavad Gītā. You see, religion is just not that you have to go to a big church or you have to just do what everybody else is doing. You need people who are following what they are preaching. A key ingredient of religion is purity. Just like in ordinary life, when you find out that your president— suppose your president is corrupt and all— then don't you lose faith in him at once? So similarly, God and religion has to be completely pure. If I tell you to give up nonsense and I do nonsense, then you as an educated man will say, "Hey, this man is a hypocrite." Do you agree with this? So try Krishna consciousness, try this millions of years old Vedic philosophy. Nicholas, maybe you can explain what really impressed you about the Vedic philosophy and you can give a 1-minute background to your academic learning. PhD from Moscow University. Is sure. He is our chief cook here.

Nikolai Petrovich says that on our scientific seminar, basis of scientific knowledge, We, this, in the same way, we have also some food after ending. And vegetarian also, um, Yuri Petrovich also vegetarian. And so we have a lot in common.

Well, as we meet more often, then the common ground will increase. So now we can hear Nikolaus explain for 2 minutes his background and why he took to this Vedic way of life. This Krishna Consciousness movement, there are many thousands of educated people He's also educated with Shemitras. I was studying in Canada when I heard about his philosophy and I found it very attractive.

Graduate study, postgraduate study, and completed postgraduate of Kominsky Institute of General Psychology and Cognitive Science. Then he worked in Institute of Psychology and Cognitive Sciences. He was studying space and influence of space on man, human behavior. When all members of our meeting took their seat, immediately a question arises, why every person took his concrete seat in our room? And when he was searching the answer, he was looking what does mean what inner space, inner space within the person. And he began to study Buddhism. Buddhist philosophy. But somehow or another he couldn't find satisfaction answer and he thought his scientific research will never be complete. Then he began visiting lectures on classical yogas. One of the lectures he was going from metro, Vedanha, a woman devotee who was distributing books. During previous 6 years he read Bhagavad Gita in unauthorized translations. We have books, such as Science of Self-Realization in Russian, and we are going to present to each member. I already have made it. He was interested by which methods he can investigate the inner space by means of meditation. And she answered that there are such methods. This Mataji answered that there are methods of investigation. And he began reading Bhagavad Gita exclusively for solving his own problem. And gradually he understood that he is studying Bhagavad Gita, that was much more important than just only for solving his problem. And he met such words that absolute truth is a person. And he felt it is most interesting thing in the world.

Very nice. So now you feel total satisfaction?

I want more inner stability. And he may continue his investigation.

So our request to all of you who were very kindly come here today, we have a simple request. All of you are mature, senior people, well qualified academically, Our request is read the Vedic philosophy. We will give you one book as a sample today. You have done experiments all your life. That is the business of scientists, to do experiments. So you have experimented all your life. Now just conduct one more experiment. And to conduct this experiment, you don't need any government funding. For most experiments, you need funding from someone. So if I tell you the experiment, are you ready to experiment just for one month? Yes, so read this book and you can try the chanting of Hare Krishna mantra for 10 minutes every day.

If you don't like it, stop it.

If you get something for free, valuable, nothing, no risk. So these are books that we would like to— Do any of you want to have some more? You're not finishing your— Too much?

She says too much for her. She is also vegetarian.

Would you like to take this home then? Please, too much. You please take it home and share it with your family. But it should be eaten. That is the important.

She also, if we're not finishing, she will later. In the meantime, I would like to give you my card. I was invited by Mr. King.

Very nice, we are very pleased to meet you. You are professor of Bengali language.

Yes. Arjuna Stefanitzki, by the way, he is from Ramakrishna, the dependent devotional mission.

We are very pleased that you have come. So, I request, try this experiment.

Professor Gombarov says it is not very pure experiment, because he said in parallel he should also read Bible and Quran.

No problem. "Asa manastu." No problem. You can chant one round of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra for 10 minutes. You can chant adna kṛṣṇa, name of Jesus Christ, adna kṛṣṇa, name of Allah. No problem. And after one month you can decide on which to continue. We are very broad-minded. So now you agree to experiment? Lama Lama.