Scientist's and Gopal Krishna Goswami's Talk about Lack of God Consciousness | Rus-Split | 11.2.92

Om Jñāna-timirandasya jñānan jñānaśalakya. Kacchurme netanyena tasmai Śrī Gurave namah. Śrī Caitanya Manovistāṁ sthāpitam jñānapahūtale. Soyaṁ rūpakadāmayāṁ tadāti svā-padāntikam. So honorable gentlemen, I consider it a privilege to have the opportunity to speak in front of this learned audience. This is supposed to be a meeting in which many scientists are also present, but I have to say ahead of my speech that I'm not a scientist at all. So my presentation is not going to be as scientific as some of you may want it to be. I understand that the topic announced for today was "Modern Problems from the Vedic Perspective." I was suggesting to Vishwamitra that we should change the topic to solutions to modern problems from the Vedic perspective. Before I start, I just want to make sure that there are enough seats to sit down for our learned scientist friends. So is there enough seats for everyone? So the Vedas, as most of you may have heard before, are very, very old. The Vedas are the oldest source of information available on this planet. The Vedic scriptures actually contain— the Vedic scriptures are estimated to be over 2 million years old on this earthly planet. Now the Vedic literature gives us information how society can be peaceful and happy. First of all, the Vedic literature establishes the position of the Supreme Scientist. Science is being respected today because it is perceived that science can solve the problems of society. And there is no doubt that we are living in a scientific world. We can't live without science, and science has a valuable role to play in our lives. Just like I'm using the microphone, is the contribution of science. The use of electricity is also a contribution of science. My coming over here in the machine is also a contribution of science. And when you take the metro to go home, that's also a contribution of science. So there's no doubt that we are all taking advantage of the achievements and contributions made by scientists over the years. At one time, society was very primitive and simple, but science has made it possible for people to travel to outer space, for people to travel to other countries, and for people to communicate within seconds with each other. So there are different grades of scientists. There is someone known as the supreme scientist, and that someone is God. If we see the working of material nature, we have to recognize that the way material nature works is almost a miracle. For example, the rising of the sun every day at the right time, and the sun giving a full journey from such a great distance without any interruption. Then the sun evaporating the water from the earth, purifying it and storing it for 8 months in the form of clouds, and then releasing it in the form of rain. Then you plant a seed in the soil And there grows a tree with flowers, fruits. You plant a seed and there is agricultural production. And even the working of your own body, that is so miraculous. How you consume the food through the mouth and how the energy travels to the entire body. And how the brain works, how the brain is able to store so much of material. We give so much credit to the scientists for the computers that have been generated, but the human brain is a far more complicated computer than anything that computers can do. So we can go on and on, but the purpose is to point out that the creation of the Supreme Scientist is unparalleled and something worth admiring. There has to be somebody who's in charge of what is known as prakriti or creation. In the Bhāgavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that this prakṛti is working under my direction. So the Supreme Scientist has given us some very valuable instructions as to how human life should be molded, and that those instructions are to be found in what is known as Vedic literature. One difference between knowledge in Vedic literature and modern literature is that Vedic literature contains flawless knowledge. According to our understanding, there are two types of knowledge. One is known as absolute knowledge, the other is relative knowledge. Absolute knowledge does not change with the passage of time. Relative knowledge changes with the passage of time. Just like we— you have seen in your own country that a certain ideology which may have been true at a certain time was later on found not to be true, not to be practical. So that is the nature of relative knowledge, relative ideology, relative philosophy, relative theories. They change with the passage of time, and with the passage of time, they need to be corrected and revised. But absolute knowledge doesn't need a change or revision or correction with the passage of time. In Sanskrit, which is the mother of most languages, this is known as sanatana-dharma. That means the eternal duty of the living entity. So we as human beings have a certain duty and responsibility. Just like in any society, the animals are not expected to conform to the laws of parliament, but the human beings are expected to conform to the laws of the country. So similarly, the Vedic literature points out that once this human form of body is obtained, we should conform to certain guidelines. I do not think that anybody could dispute this point. The human life is certainly a life of responsibility. Just like if an animal crosses the street on the red light, the militia in your country doesn't give him a ticket. But if a human being crosses the street on a red light, he certainly gets arrested. So having realized this human body after a very, very long evolutionary cycle, the Vedic literature points out that this life should be utilized very carefully and intelligently. We understand that there are millions of different species of life. To be precise, there are over 8,400,000— there are about 8,400,000 different species of life. Out of these 8,400,000 different species of life, only 400,000 are considered to be belonging to the human category. The other forms of life belong to other species, and there is something which doesn't end with the passage of the— with the termination of the body, and that something is the soul. Many heart specialists, even in North America today, are acknowledging that when the body dies, there's something in the body which leaves the body, and then the body takes on a whole different dimension. And that something is the spirit soul. The body is always changing. It is said that the body goes through 6 stages of development. The body is first born, then it grows, maintains itself, produces byproducts, begins to get old, and finally it dies. And the soul, however, doesn't die with the termination of the body. This has been confirmed in almost all the great scriptures on this planet. The Vedic literature establishes that the soul is eternal but the body is perishable, and the Bible also confirms this by stating that what shall one do if he gains the whole world but loses his, loses his eternal soul? So the soul is eternal. In other words, this soul represents the real identity of the living being. Now, in the present society, we can all be aware of a variety of problems that we are all very concerned about. For example, We are all concerned about the crime in society. We are all concerned about the food production in society. We are all concerned about— we are all concerned about having leaders who lead the country but who are not honest to the citizens and to the welfare, and when you do not work for the welfare of the people. Then we are all concerned with the rise in diseases all over the world. Everywhere in the world we see that the hospitals are full of patients. And then we are all concerned about the mental anxiety that is increasing with the passage of time. Now we can go on and on, but these are just some of the areas of problems that everyone all over the planet seems to be concerned about. Take for example the rise in crime. In society? When does crime increase in society? Crime increases in society when people do not understand their limitations. Crime increases in society when people become greedy. Crime increases in society when people don't have respect for law. Crime increases in society as people's character goes down. And why does the character go down? Because people are not educated in moral values, and they're not educated in moral values because people have seemed to be losing to understand the importance of information, education that is there in the scriptures of the world. Then we're also very concerned about the food problem. For example, in your country right now, we see— that there's a tremendous shortage of what they call 'producti.' Actually, the whole planet is facing this problem to different degrees. Not only is the food production running out, but the whole world is also running short of water. United Nations studies have educated us to believe that in about 20 years' time, in many countries of the world, water is going to be sold like benzene. So the world is running out of natural resources. Why is this happening? Again, because we are deviating from the teachings of the ancient scriptures. There is a very nice verse in the 3rd chapter of the Bhagavad Gita that I would like to read to all of you. I will first read the Sanskrit and then we will present the Russian translation. Anad bhavanti bhūtani prajnanānā sambhavā yajñāt bhavati prajñāṇo yajña-karma samudbhavāḥ. So this verse presents very valuable information that we all need. Nobody can live without food grains. Is that right? Atha prabhada? So everybody needs food grains. Now, how do you get food grains? Food grains can only come if there's rainfall. On your dining table, you can't have nuts and bolts, nor can you have computers on your dining table. Not can you have these modern tube lights on your dining table. On your dining table you need food grains. Even those who eat meat are able to eat meat because animals are fed on grains. So ultimately everybody needs food grains. But what is the secret to the realization of food grains? The secret is there must be rainfall. You may have the best chemicals, But even the best chemicals can only increase the agricultural production if there is rainfall. Now, do the rains run under anybody's command? Can the government in power order the clouds, "Release rain," and the rain will fall? Can you threaten aggression over the clouds and scare them to release the rain? You can't do all that. Rainfall comes when one performs sacrifice. And sacrifice means one performs one's constitutional duty. In other words, you can only have food production if you get cooperation from the Supreme Lord, because the clouds work under the direction of the Supreme Lord. Just like in your country, you have a government, you know, what you have Mr. Yeltsin as the president, and you have different ministers in charge of different departments, the Supreme Lord also has a government. But the government of the Supreme Lord is very, very vast. It has a very huge cabinet. There are 33 million cabinet ministers. This may take you by surprise. And these cabinet ministers are known as demigods. Just like there is one demigod called Indra. Indra is in charge of rainfall. Then there's another demigod known as Vivasvan, who's in charge of the sunshine that you experience. Then there's somebody else in charge of the air that you and I breathe, and it goes on and on. So unless we perform sacrifices, you don't get cooperation from the agents of the Lord. Science may help in the utilization of natural resources, but science doesn't create natural resources. Resources. Just like we hear that in many parts of your country there's a lot of oil, and certainly that oil has not been put over there by these scientists. The scientists just have the ability to extract the oil by the best means possible. Then take the natural resources, for example, coal mines, iron, any other type of natural resource. That has also been planted over there by the Supreme Lord or by nature working under the Lord's direction. So science can just help how to extract the natural resources, but it can't create the natural resources. Even the water that is there in the oceans and rivers certainly is not the result of anyone's creation but nature's creation. So look at it from any angle, Nobody can deny the hand of the Lord in directing the nature that provides us the necessities of life. Now in ordinary life, in ordinary day-to-day life all over the world, the government has what they call a system of taxation. Now in your country also, as you change from the old form of government to the new form of government, I think all of you are experiencing what is known as taxation. Now why does the government all over the world believe in taxation? Income tax, sales tax, water tax, this tax.

Why?

Because the government says, we are providing you all these services. How are we going to pay for these services? The way to pay for these services is if we tax you. So people have a tendency all over the world to resent taxation, but the government goes ahead and enforces taxation because without taxation the government cannot pay its bills. And even grudgingly, people pay because they realize that since they are getting some facilities from the government, they owe something in return. So why don't we have a duty towards the Lord who is providing us all these gifts through material nature? If we were to calculate the amount of sunshine we consume every day, the amount of air we consume every day, and the amount of natural resources we consume every day, any sane man would feel that he certainly has a duty towards the Supreme Lord, who is the source of all these natural resources. And if you were to calculate the various gifts that you have in the form of the human body, the ability of the eyes to see, the nose to smell, the tongue to taste, the ears to hear, and the brain to think and plan, certainly you would feel a certain obligation towards that person who created this perfect machine. So looking at it from any angle, we have a certain debt towards that Supreme Being who is the source of all what we have just described. That is why the Vedic literature states, now that this human form of life is realized, realize your debts towards the cause of all causes. Now there's one major difference between the service that one does towards the Lord and the service one done in than it does in a material situation. In a material situation, one is never satisfied. One keeps on experimenting from one form of system to another, but the end result is always frustration. I've had the opportunity of speaking to groups of scientists in other parts of the world also, including prosperous countries like America, and everywhere the realization is the same. That there is an element of unhappiness regardless of the facilities one has. We have a tendency to believe that this change is going to be an improvement, but the realization in the end is always one of unhappiness. So this point is also stated in the Vedic literature. Great has pointed out the two elements that are a reality. One is misery, another that everything is temporary. And the Vedic literature also points out that intelligence should be directed to free oneself from 7 types of miseries. You may want to know what the 7 types of miseries are. The first is birth. When the child comes out of the mother's womb, the child always comes out crying. I think even in your country where, where there's so much of scientific advancement, The child comes up crying just like it does in a village in India. Then there is disease. Nobody likes to fall sick, but there is disease. Then there is old age, and lastly there is death. Now in addition to these four types of miseries, there are three other types of miseries that we all have to face. One is the misery caused by the mind. Mental anxiety is increasing day by day. There are many reasons for this mental anxiety. One is that we are cultivating unlimited desires and we are always endeavoring to satisfy these desires. Then you have natural calamities and natural disasters which even scientists cannot prevent. You may— we may have made some progress in predicting earthquakes, we may have made some scientific progress in, in preventing floods, But nevertheless, earthquakes are constantly taking place and floods are constantly taking place. And then we have the 7th type of misery, which is misery caused by other living entities. Sometimes you have human beings who disturb your life without any rhyme and reason. Sometimes you have even animal entities, even a small entity like the mosquito that tries to make your life miserable. So the point is that in the presence of these Sevenfold Miseries, Krishna says in the Vedic literature, one can never be very, very comfortable. Continuing with our analysis of the various problems, we also see that pollution, for example, has become a major problem everywhere. Why all of a sudden have people become so concerned about the pollution of the air and pollution of the environment? 10 years ago, nobody was talking about it, but now everybody's talking about it. Why? Because they've just realized that if the air is polluted, the health will get ruined. And if the health is ruined, then you can't try and give pleasure to the senses. Therefore, pollution of the air in many countries has become the number one problem. At one time, the world was divided into camps and living under the fear of a nuclear threat. But today, the leaders of the world seem to be discussing that pollution has become the number one problem everywhere. Now, why has pollution taken place in the first place? Again, when you have an artificial society which is bent upon— which is just trying to satisfy the unlimited needs of the human population, then you have to have factories, etc., that produce nothing but pollution. Therefore, we have the Vedic concept of an ideal situation. The Vedic concept is simple living and high thinking. Simple living means you minimize your bodily needs. High thinking means you understand, you try to achieve the real goal of life. But in reality, what we see in society is the following: high living and simple thinking. We want to live as high as possible and think as simple as possible, pretty much like the animals think. You may want to know what is our perception of the animal's ability to think. Animals have the ability to think in 4 principal areas, what is known as eating, sleeping, defending, mating. And unfortunately, knowledge is the king of education. Now, this knowledge is considered the king of education because this knowledge really seeks to destroy our entire illusion. It destroys the illusion that we are this body. It destroys the illusion that everything terminates with what is known as death. It destroys the illusion about the path of real happiness. So our presentation is that Vedic literature constitutes the highest form of education. Just like there's so many institutes of learning in your country, But do they tell you what happens after death? There's no institution that tells you what happens after death because they don't have this understanding. Whereas through Vedic literature, you can understand what happens after death. So that is why this knowledge is called the most perfect education, because it tells us how to live and how to prepare to free oneself from the misery and how It also teaches us about the art of dying. It teaches us the art of dying because we understand from Vedic literature that wherever the mind is at the moment of death, that is where the living entity eventually gets transported. So Vedic literature contains information that modern educational systems don't provide. Now, I don't want any of you to get the impression that we are against what modern education may be supplying. In the Shri Isha Upanishad, which is a part of the Vedic family, it is said that one must cultivate material science and spiritual science side by side. Our spiritual master Śrīla Prabhupāda used to say that if you have one zero or 100 zeros, they mean nothing. But if you add the figure 1 to the zeros, the zeros become meaningful. And that one in society is God consciousness. If God consciousness is introduced in society, if spiritual education is introduced in society from a young age, Then society will be brought up in a totally different environment. These days we see that your country is also headed towards what we call a democratic form of government. I have lived in many countries where they have had this democratic form of government for a long time. But it is not that the people in these other countries are happy with the democratic system or with the leaders that they have in society. In the Western countries also you see, That a leader may be very popular today, getting a very high rating in a poll, but one year later his, his standing comes way down and it becomes unpopular. We see all over the world people are protesting with the honesty of leaders in society. So all this is there due to a fundamental defect in the way modern society is operating, and that fundamental defect is lack of God consciousness. So our presentation is that God consciousness has to be introduced in society, and the Vedic literature, which is the oldest literature on the planet, presents a platform how God consciousness should be introduced. And taking advantage of Vedic literature doesn't mean that you can't use modern science. Modern science can be used for constructive purposes and not destructive purposes. As I said earlier, we also who are propagating the message of God use modern science or the facilities created by science. Just like this microphone, it is being used for an auspicious purpose at the moment, but this could also be used for something inauspicious should one desire. So it's the utilization that determines whether it is being used correctly or incorrectly. So the consciousness that everything should be utilized correctly can only be created if there is God consciousness in society. And when we talk about God consciousness, we should talk about God consciousness in terms of the established scriptures of the world. And if we follow the established scriptures of the world, then we will be able to create a favorable God-conscious atmosphere in which everyone can live happily. Just like a fish cannot be happy outside the water, the living entity cannot be happy without a spiritual connection with the Lord. So in summary, We believe all the problems that society is facing today, such as food problem, pollution, inefficient government, crime in society, all these solutions can be solved with one dosage, and that is a spiritual dosage consisting of spiritual education from a young age. In fact, it is said in the Vedic literature that spiritual education should be started from the age of 5 onwards. Just like these days, we teach the children from the age of 5 how to use computers. We teach them computers from a young age because it has been recognized that computers are an integral part of one's life. So is God not an integral part of our life? So the— our only complaint against the modern society is that there is godliness in society. And all problems can be solved with the introduction of God consciousness in society. There are many ways of God consciousness can be introduced. One is in the introductive study of books like Bhagavad-gītā and Bible. And then you have the recommended process for this age, that is glorification of the Lord by the chanting of His holy names. So taking advantage of this knowledge, we can all be happy and peaceful. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we will be happy to entertain questions from all of you, should you have any questions or comments. Okay?

Yes? What are concrete methods to introduce this God consciousness, and especially what are recommendations to arrange the society? In which way should we arrange our society according to Vedic information?

It's a very, very interesting question. Intelligent question. About a year ago, I happened to give a lecture to an educational committee that is responsible for preparing educational programs for people in Moscow, and they were also admitting that education the way it is is failing to deliver the goods. Before I answer, I just want to give a little bit more background. Even in America where you have all these famous universities. A recent report of the US Senate confirmed that the standard and morality in university campuses has greatly gone down. Student unrest is so high, student indiscipline. This is all there because our material education is lopsided. So with this background, I'll now answer your question. So One way is that in schools you also introduce spiritual subjects. The best time to educate a person is when he's young. So as we begin to teach our children, "Ave vegae," we should also teach them a little bit about their spiritual education. We should also give them information about who they are. And we should help them to understand who they are and what their duty is towards the Supreme Lord. Man-made philosophy comes and goes, but God's philosophy stands the test of time. Just like this Vedic philosophy that has been in existence since millions of years. So, did I answer your question, sir?

Arrangement of society, what kind of arrangement of society? Free pricing, is it good, is it bad? Mr. Prasad, how should the state regulate prices?

Okay, okay. Well, I happen to be an economist by education, but I'm not going to comment on the free prices because that's not the subject of my talk today. So I'm not going to comment on the free prices or the shift from communism to capitalism. In our opinion, neither communism nor capitalism nor socialism will answer mankind's search for happiness. In our opinion, there's only one solution, and that is Krishnaism, or you can call it Bolaism. So practically speaking, in society, you should start introducing spiritual education from a young age. Then the government should declare as illegal laws that are against the religious scriptures and glorification of God through the bona fide names of God. Should be made compulsory in all sections. Just like a few years ago, studying of a particular philosophy was compulsory in your country. I didn't say Marx is Kalinčić. That was the translator's addition.

Okay, what's the difference between the faith in future life and faith in communism? And that is not real. Communism is not real, and future life is not real. He considers like that.

So what's the question? What's the difference between—

what's the difference between faith in future life and faith in communism. So he considers it not serious, future life and eternity of the soul.

You want to know the difference between faith in spiritual life and faith in communism? Ita vāśvāprasa? What exactly do you mean by that? If you can just elaborate, then I can give you the proper answer. Or let me try to answer your question. If you're not satisfied, then you can elaborate. So faith in communism was established because it was considered that communism was— is a way of life. Whether it's capitalism, socialism, communism, people take to any of these doctrines because they think these doctrines will solve the problems of life. Whereas faith in spiritual doctrine is a must because God's doctrine doesn't suffer from 4 types of defects that man-made philosophies suffer from. Human beings make 4 types of mistakes. We make mistakes, even if you are a Nobel laureate, still you make mistakes. We have a tendency to cheat, our senses are imperfect, and we get illusioned. Therefore, any man-made philosophy is going to collapse with the passage of time. Whereas God's philosophy stands the test of time. So you can utilize your intelligence and decide which will satisfy you in the long run.

I think he doesn't believe in existence of soul, in eternity of the soul.

So my understanding is you don't believe in the eternity of the soul.

Okay, he says there is no direct evidence.

Okay, fine, fine. Let's just take this point that there is no soul, as you seem to believe. When a person dies, why does he not reply to your statement, khak de la? Why? You reply. I can show you the statement. There was a very leading heart surgeon of the world called Dr. Bidjlow. He, he's still living. He's in the Toronto General Hospital in Canada. He said, and this was 20 years ago, now he's even more convinced. At that time, 20 years ago, the Canadian government had appointed a body to determine at what point should a patient be allowed to die in the hospital. As you know, in the Western countries, this is a number one topic of discussion in scientific circles. When I say scientific, I mean doctors. At what point should a person be allowed to die, and at what point should he be kept artificially alive? Because now they have so many machines that can keep people artificially alive for long, for a little longer time. But the problem is they have the machines But nobody is ready to pay the bills now for keeping people artificially alive. The problem is that science has created the machines by which they can try to keep people artificially alive, but the cost for running these machines is so high that even in America, the government and the private insurance companies are refusing to bear the high cost. The government is going broke paying the medical bills in countries like Canada. So there was a study conducted at what point should a patient be allowed to die rather than kept artificially alive. So Dr. Bigelow said, after studying people die for 32 years, he is convinced that there's something in the body, and when that something leaves the body, the body loses all luster and all beauty. So There's so much evidence to show that there is a soul. Then again, I'm sure you have pictures in your photo album when you were young. Yeah? You have pictures of when you were younger? So when you look at a picture of yours, say 30 years ago, and say, "Etha ya." How do you say, "Etha ya?" Your body looks completely different. If you are this body, how can you say, "This is I"? Obviously there was something in your body at that time which is still there now. And that's why you say, this is I. I can give you many more examples. There is soul in the body, and even modern-day scientists are acknowledging that there is soul in the body. What do you think is the difference between a living entity and a dead entity? Let's hear your answer.

Dead person is going to ruin, his body will ruin very soon, and the living person, he is living and his process will take place.

But when does a man die? That's my question. Etamayo apropos. When does a man die? How do you determine death?

Maybe, water, maybe this is not only one point, this interval of time during which various processes are stopping or ending, and this is—

How do the various processes stop? I can give— I'll give you another example. Sometimes a person is in coma for 2, 2 years. You, you know what, what a person is in coma He's completely unconscious, sleeping for 2 years nonstop. So how's that man still living? He's living because that little bit of consciousness is there, because the soul is still there.

This is exception. This is exception. Okay. Question is, what do you think about such conception that instead of God, there is more Are there higher developed civilizations, more intelligent beings that are controlling our civilizations? First question.

Okay, I'm glad that you at least acknowledge that there are more developed beings controlling civilization. That's at least a starting point. However, however, where is the harm if you acknowledge that one Supreme Being instead of many Supreme Beings that is controlling everything? You have acknowledged that there are many Supreme Beings. So we also acknowledge that there are many Supreme Beings. But even amongst the many Supremes, there is one that is really Supreme.

And second question, what do you think if religions are various teachings which are given us by higher civilizations, more advanced civilizations, to control, to keep our civilization in order?

Yes. That's right. Religion contains philosophy that is given by the perfect being, God, to make human civilization happy and peaceful. You have to understand, our relationship with God is like that of your relationship with your son. If you have a son, you're concerned about the son's welfare, aren't you? So similarly, the Supreme Lord, being our eternal father, is concerned about our welfare. Just like when you try to discipline the young child, the child cannot always understand why you are saying what you are saying. Similarly, we are unable to understand why the Lord is saying what is for our— that this is for our benefit. That is due to the power of illusion. Just like in your country, like in every country, you see a lot of people walking on the streets who are under the influence of alcohol or vodka. So when they are under the influence of alcohol, doesn't matter how much you speak, very little will penetrate. So similarly, the penetration is limited at the moment due to the influence of illusion. Therefore, association with spiritually minded people is recommended because by gradual association, the intoxication or the effect of illusion begins to fade away.

Do you know such a question? Why Hierarchy of Himalayas is working with— I don't know what does it mean. Hierarchy of Himalayas is working with cosmic intelligence. Seems to me a little bit insane question. Hierarchy of Himalayas is working with cosmic intelligence and others.

Jyotirbharat Prasad.

There is Christian saying that too much wisdom, too much unhappiness. Does that mean that too much education leads to our miseries?

Well, I would say incomplete education leads to misery. It is incomplete education because there's no understanding of spiritual education. I'll tell you a very simple story. That our spiritual master used to often repeat. There was once a very educated Indian who had studied in America and returned to India. And as you know, in many parts of India, there are many rivers like in your country. So on one occasion, he was crossing the boat which was being, uh, which was being ridden by, by a boatman. He was crossing in a boat with a boatman. The boatman was an uneducated man who just had great faith in the names of God. This man was very proud of his modern education, so he started showing off his knowledge to the uneducated boatman. He asked him if he could speak the English language, just like even in your country when somebody learns English and he shows it off on the other people. They do it everywhere. Sir, the boatman simply said, "I'm uneducated, I can't speak any English." So the educated man said, "You can't speak English, you've wasted 25% of your life." A little later he asked the boatman if he knew something about astronomy. The boatman said, "I've never even heard of the word astronomy before, forget the science of astronomy." So he said, "You've wasted 50% of your life." And a little later he asked if he knew about modern history, and the boatman said, "No, I'm simply an uneducated man." I don't know any of these things. So he said, you've wasted 75% of your life. So as they were sailing in the boat, the weather was getting rough, and the scholar was worried why was the boat rocking so much. So he asked the boatman, why is the boat rocking so much all of a sudden? So the boatman said, it appears that a heavy storm is coming, sir. He said, "I hope you learned how to swim in America." And the educated man said, "No, I didn't learn how to swim." So he said, "Now 100% of your life is wasted because you're going to get drowned." So this is the result of modern education without spiritual education. You have a society in which there is no morality. You have a society in which there is corruption from top to bottom, bottom to top. You have a society in which everyone's trying to cheat everyone. You have a society in which survival of the fittest is the law. So that is the result of a godless civilization. So this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement through the Bhaktivedanta Institute, all it is doing is trying to point out The position of God and the need for God to be in our lives. More questions? Yes.

What is your opinion, recently on Soviet TV there was such information that in Vladikavkaz there was appearance, in Vladikavkaz there was appearance of Saint George of Russian Orthodox Church, there is such a saint and there was evidence some and some temple is building on that place. What is your opinion?

To be honest, I don't have much information about what you have just stated. But if a great saint has appeared over there and the temple is being built, very good. We have nothing against it. We are very happy. Yes?

There's a lot of questions on the sheet of paper if he wants to read. Okay. Just as I thought, are there some interactions within Absolute Truth, within the whole structure of Absolute Truth? That's a philosophical question. Is it good to you? Is there some structure within Absolute Truth and some relations—

Yes, the Absolute Truth was imparted by the Supreme Lord to Brahmā. In other words, the Absolute Truth was given by God in His incarnation as Vyasadev and also left behind in what we call Vedic literature. What do you mean by structure?

By like spiritual world, the structure of spiritual world.

He is interested.

Absolute world structure. Prasad RAVAL.

Okay. Just like we have the material world, the material— there is a spiritual world. In the spiritual world, there is no darkness, no anxiety, no unhappiness. That world is self-illuminated. There's no disease, there's no death. Now, you enter into the spiritual world by qualification. Just like to go to another country, you need a visa. Is this what you want to know? Yeah.

What is your opinion concerning the idea of unification of all religious faiths and religious movements, the ecumenistic movement?

Communistic?

Ecumenistic. No, ecumenistic. Unification of churches.

Well, we would be in favor of uniting all the religions and giving up your love for so-called material things. So if everybody is able to, is willing to unite on the principle of developing love of God and giving up love for sinful activities, sure, we are ready for that. But if somebody just gonna say, I am a Christian or Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist, without understanding what is real religion, then it's a waste of time. Let me take question from the scientists. No more question from our scientist friends?

Yes. Do you acknowledge energetic intelligence above all universe, about all creation?

Of course we do. We acknowledge him, we know his name, We know his address and we know how we can communicate with him. We know everything.

He says, why don't we communicate with authorities of cosmos, various like maybe demigods who are in charge of our earth, of cosmic control?

Okay. Sir, do you work in this institute?

He is the chief editor of a journal, Intelligence and Cosmos.

Okay. So, I'm very happy to meet you. Now, you can approach the demigod, but if you have a chance to go directly to the Lord, why should you not take advantage of it? Just like if you want to get something done from your Russian government, if you can go directly to the president, won't you go there rather than go to the lower officers? Okay, any more questions?

Well, if when we reach the absolute world, the spiritual world, we lose all desires and all our demands are satisfied by Krishna, then what is the meaning of the complete spiritual knowledge? What is the meaning of freedom? And what are relations between Krishna and him, his lovable servants?

Actually, when you enter the spiritual world, you don't lose desires, but your desires get purified. So in the spiritual world, your only desire is to serve the Supreme Lord. Therefore, in the spiritual world, everybody is interested in just serving the Lord.

An interesting question, unknown for me. First, he said, do you acknowledge the process of reincarnation? Certainly, but Then he said, "What is your opinion about reincarnation of the whole civilization, that various civilization reincarnate in various epochs, millenniums?" Well, actually the whole civilization is reincarnating.

By civilization do you mean the human beings, all the species of life?

Human civilization.

Well, human civilization, animal civilization, plants, They are all going through the cycle of birth and transmigration of the soul. Some go up, some go down. Just like after you obtain a human birth, there is no guarantee that you will not go down to lower forms of life. That will be determined by your activities. So you can go up or down, which is going to be determined by your activities.

If we acknowledge existence of supreme intelligence, Do we consider that this Supreme Intelligence has 3 levels? Evolution, revolution, and abstraction. Never heard such thing, but the fact is 3 levels of Supreme Intelligence: revolution, evolution, and abstraction.

Actually, the Supreme Intelligence has unlimited levels, not just 3 levels. If I tell you something, you will just be shocked, but I'll tell you. The glories of God, the intelligence of God, the abilities of God is increasing every minute. So how can you just divide it into three?

What is the opinion of Supreme Intelligence? How does He divide Himself? What is His structure from His own opinion?

Prasād RAVAL, what you are seeing is only a small sampling of the Supreme Intelligence. This universe in which you and I are living, it is only one tiny portion of God's total creation. It is just like one mustard seed in a bag of mustard seeds.

Did you take birth on this earth, or you just descended from cosmos? And do you know who is who, who is from which? A rich man comes.

Well, if you want me to be truthful, obviously I took birth just like everybody else does. Yes, Guruji.

What is your information about magnitude and also weight of the soul? What is the weight of the soul?

Okay. The soul is very, very light. In fact, the scale on which The soul can be weighed. It's not been produced by any scientist in the world. Can you calculate the weight of one hair of yours? Can you calculate the weight of the tip of your hair? Can you? No. It's okay. The soul is 1/10,000th the tip of your hair. Why is it 1/10,000th? That is created by Kṛṣṇa. It is so light. Still it is giving you energy 24 hours a day. In the material world, the scientists have invented what they call rechargeable batteries. You charge your battery for a few hours and then you use it for a few hours. The most is you can use these batteries for 4 or 8 hours without recharging them again. But the soul goes on giving you energy 24 hours a day for your entire existence.

What are our relations with Christian religion and what are perspectives of development of our movement in Russia?

Well, as I said in answer to somebody's question from the other side, we are ready to cooperate with anybody as long as religion is going to be followed based on the laws of God. So there are various types of Christians today. Some are Christian just for name, some are staunch conservative Christians, some go to the church every Sunday but don't really practice Christian teachings. So with those who really want to follow Christian teachings, we have absolutely no quarrel. In fact, there are many, many elements in the Bible that are taken directly out of the Vedic scriptures. There is a very ancient book, and I'll bring it with me next time I come to your country because I have the book in India. It's called the Aquarian Gospel, and in that Aquarian Gospel, it is clearly told how Jesus Christ received his spiritual training in India. There are many elements of the Bible, as I said, that are very common with the Vedic teachings. For example, Bible says man is made in God's image. So it acknowledges that God has a form. Bible says soul is eternal. Vedas also say that. Bible says thou shalt chant the names of the Lord. Vedas also say that. Bible talks about reward and punishment, heaven and hell. Vedas also talk about that. Reward and punishment. Bible says, thou shalt not kill. Clearly stating killing is bad, including killing of animals. Vedas also say that. So there are many, many statements in the Bible that are 90 to 100% in support of what the Vedic teachings are. The problem is that the present-day followers of the Bible have twisted everything to suit their convenience. But this is also the problem with the followers of the Vedas in India. They have also watered down the whole Vedic message completely. And that's also the problem with the followers of Islam. So that is the problem with the entire society, that the original teachings of God have been watered down to suit the convenience of man.

What's your opinion about development of our society in Russia, our movement?

I see a very, very bright future in Russia. Actually, I'm a very great admirer of Russian intelligence. Some people say I'm the Russian government's agent when I preach about it. So I feel the Russian people are very intelligent. That is why they're taking to spiritual life so enthusiastically. And actually, I travel regularly to virtually all the countries that were— that have now become independent, were previously part of the Soviet, uh, circuits. And I find everywhere the people are very receptive to God and religion. And that is why thousands of people are buying the Bhagavad-gītā regularly. In the month of December, our society distributed nearly 400,000 Bhagavad-gītās in one month. Isn't that unbelievable? So, I understand that our time is up.

Do you agree with that principle that degree of freedom depends upon your spiritual development. If you are spiritually developed, you have more higher degree of freedom. Is it true?

If you are spiritually developed, you utilize your intelligence correctly. You use your intelligence to understand and serve God. That is the sign of intelligence. It washiwapas, paschiniwapas.

It is known that something over 15 billions of animals are killed on the earth. Do you think maybe this is the main reason of our miseries on our Prasad Raaval.

Certainly killing of animals and killing of cows especially is very, very, very sinful. And when you perform sinful activities, somebody has to take on the reaction. So obviously killing of animals, killing of children in the womb through abortion is contributing to the miseries of society. So we are against all types of sinful activities. And if the government was to adopt our guidelines, there would be no problems in society. I'll tell you a real incident that took place last week when I was in Leningrad. I was interviewed over there by the editor of a newspaper of St. Petersburg University. So he made a very— a statement which sounds humorous, but I'll still tell you. So as all of you know, There's a big miasa shortage in society in your country. So that man, the editor, was saying that I've heard that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has conspired with the government in creating this miasa shortage. So I said, yes, we have conspired with the government. So we would like to believe that it is due to the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā that society is realizing that mayāsa is not good. So we are against killing of any entity. So friends, I've been told by Vishwamitra that our time is up now. I want to thank all of you for participating in this program today. I understand that the Bhaktiratha Institute branch is regularly conducting such seminars And we would like all of you to participate in these seminars. Invite your friends, because if we can educate society to become God conscious, this would be a great service to your country, society, and civilization. People are concerned about food shortages in your country. Actually, there's only one real shortage in your country, my country, all the countries, and that is God consciousness. So we should all work together to take care of this shortage, and then the whole society will be happy, you will be happy, and the future generation will be happy. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. Hale Krishna! Hale Krishna! Krishna Krishna Hare Hare!

Hare Rama Hare!

Lama Lama Hare Hare!