Śrī Īśopaniṣad 11: How to live in the modern day world?| Rus-Split | 19.5.90 | Gopal Krishna Goswami

So we are going to discuss text 11 of the Śrī Īśāpaniṣad. So as I have said yesterday, we will read from Īśāpaniṣad and then we will discuss from Caitanya-caritāmṛta. We'll discuss stories about preaching and Prabhupāda's emphasis on book distribution. Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya! Vedyaam cha vedyam chandramasya maaharshurayaa— om namo bahagwate vaasudevaya!

Vidyām ca vidyām cha vedyāma cha amritānanda muktiḥ—

Yās, tāt, vedo bhyāṁ, saḥ, abhediyāyaṁ, rityaṁ, teṭṭhva, vidyāyaṁ rataṁ, aśṇute, Vedyam cha vedyam chayas! Dadvedo bhayamsaha! Avidya yam nettyam tirthva! Vidya yam nrittam ashnoteh! Vediam cha vedyam chayas! Avidyayam Nityam Tirthvā! Avidyayam Nityam Tirthvā! Vidyāyaṁ Rattama Ashnotē! Vidyāyaṁ Nityaḍma Ashnotē! Vidyāmcha vidyāmchāyas! Vidyāmcha vidyāmchāyas! Tatvedo bhayaṃ saha! Tatvedo bhayaṃ saha! Vidyāyaṁ Nityam Tirthvā! Vidyāyaṁ Nityaṣṇutē! Vidyāyaṁ Nityaṣṇutē! Om Ajñāna-timilandaśya jñānanjanāśalakya chakṣur-militaṇyena tasmāy Śrī Gurave namahā. Śrī Caitanya-māno-vestam sapitām yena bhūtele. Svayam rūpakadāmayam dadāti svāpādanti-kam. Bandeham Śrī Guru Śrī uttāpāda-kam lan Śrī Gurunvaishnāmanāśca. Śrī Rūpaṁ sagrajatam sahagana-ragunātāṇvitam tam sadevam. Sadhvaitam samuddhutam parijanāsaitam kṛṣṇa-cetanya-devam śrī-rādhākṛṣṇa-padānta-hāgana-lalitāśrī-viśākānetāmu śaḥ. Jai Śrī Kṛṣṇa-cetanya-prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita-gadādhākṣivaśrī-vigōrdha-mahātkavandha. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Hare Kṛṣṇa! Hare Kṛṣṇa! Hare!

Hare!

Hare Rāma! Hare Rāma! Rāma!

Rāma! Hare!

Hare! Vidyam cha vidyam cha yas tad vedo bahyam saha avidyaya amṛtyam tirthvā vidyāya amṛtam aśṇute. Vidya and avidya, these are two significant words in this śloka of the Śrī Īśopaniṣad. Vidya means knowledge and avidya means the opposite. So the Śrī Īśāpariśad in this verse is giving us a very practical solution as to how to live in the modern-day world. One should not think that Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we don't want to keep up with modern technology, for example. Certainly we are taking advantage of modern technology. I was in, I was in Kyiv before coming here. Before Kyiv, I was in Leningrad. Before Leningrad, I was in Moscow. Before Moscow, I was in Bombay. Before Bombay, I was in Vrindavan. Before Vrindavan, I was in Delhi. So obviously, and today evening I'm going to be leaving for Moscow. So obviously I'm able to move around because of modern technology. I certainly couldn't have traveled so much if I was traveling in the bullock cart. If I was in the bullock cart, I would still be somewhere still in India. And you can see that we are using the tape recorder, microphone, everything. Today there's no microphone for the kitchen. And certainly when we print our books, our books you can see are very high quality. Doesn't matter which part of the world you go, people say, oh, your books are very nicely printed. Prabhupada personally told me once, he said, our books are quality inside, quality outside. Inside there is very important material, and outside the presentation is first class.— So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not against modern technology. Just like when it gets cold, we are not going to tell you devotees, "No, you cannot take advantage of the heating that comes through the central heating system." We are not going to tell you, "You can't use hot water from your tap in the winter." So the point is that modern technology also has a place in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore, what Kṛṣṇa is saying In this verse says one must learn the process of net science and that of transcendental knowledge side by side. And one who can cultivate it side by side, he can become free from the cycle of birth and death. Prabhupāda used to give an example. He used to say you may have 1 zero, 2 zeros, 10 zeros, but even if you have 100 zeros, no value. 100 zeros or 1,000 zeros all have absolutely no value. But the moment the figure 1 is added, The zeros become meaningful. Do you follow this simple example? You may write 10 zeros, even though they are 10 figures, but they have no value. 0 0 0 0. But the moment you add the figure 1, then it either becomes 10 or 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000. Similarly, Prabhupāda said, the moment you add Kṛṣṇa in front of your material achievements, then they become meaningful. So in this verse, Vyāsa Deva is pointing out one must cultivate transcendental knowledge along with material knowledge. Pralādvarāja said, karmāra-ācārat-prajñyā-dharmaṁ bhāgavatāmya dhurlabha-mānusam-jñāṇma-tad abhi ardua-paṭhadaṁ, that the spiritual education must be introduced from the age of 5 onwards. Why? Because From the young age of 5, if the child is given spiritual education, then when he grows up, he will be able to stay on the spiritual path. But if you do not give him the spiritual education from a young age, then it is very difficult to cultivate spiritual knowledge. Therefore, Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was in school, his classmates used to tell him, "Prahlāda, let's go out and play ball." But Prahlāda used to say, no, we must use this valuable human life correctly. So, spiritual transcendental knowledge must be cultivated through the, through the medium of human form of life. Unfortunately, all over the world today, under the name of secularism, they are not imparting spiritual knowledge in schools and colleges. In India, there was a time when transcendental knowledge was being given in schools. But for the last 20, 30 years, under the name of secularism, the government has completely stopped any type of spiritual education in schools. That is why the present society is defective. There is a spiritual vacuum in society. You may have any amount of achievement, but unless you have spiritual achievement, these achievements are simply incomplete. In the purport of this verse, Prabhupada talks about The desire of the living entity to become deathless. Does not matter which civilization you may study, the bottom line is the same. Sense enjoyment and the desire to become deathless. But unfortunately they do not know how to become deathless. Hiranyakashipu was trying to become deathless. He was trying to get benediction from Lord Brahma. Brahma told him, even I will have to die, so how can I give you a benediction that you will not die? So Hiranyakashipu, thinking that he can indirectly obtain the same goal. He's trying to get Brahmaji to give him many benedictions, like he would not die in the day or the night, nor killed by any human being or animal, and so on. So even though Hiranyakashipu obtained so many benedictions, ultimately he had to surrender to death. And Hiranyakashipu, however, was able to obtain these benedictions because he had performed very extensive austerities. These days, the modern-day Hiranyakashipus, they want benedictions but they don't want any austerity. At least Hiranyakashipu knew that without austerity you can't even get benediction. Like Hiranyakashipu was standing on his toes with his hands towards the sky and there were millions of ants walking over all his body. But Hiranyakashipu was not at all disturbed. The ants had eaten up his whole body. Only the bones were remaining. That is all. So when Lord Brahma saw, when Brahma came searching for Hiranyakashipu, Hiranyakashipu was standing right next to him and Brahma could not recognize him. Why? Because Hiranyakashipu's whole body was eaten up by ants and it was like an anthill. I'm sure you've seen anthills in Riga. It's like a small hill and the ants are going up and down, up and down. The ants were going up and down Hiranyakashipu's body and he didn't even protest. In your and my case, one fly comes and sits on our nose, we get disturbed. Of course, in this part of the world you don't have that experience, but if you were in India and right now if you were in Vrindavan or somewhere, there'd be so many flies all over your body that unless you don't use a fan, they will be sitting on your head. If one ant walks over your body, how irritated you feel. But Hiranyakashipu had millions and millions of ants walking over his body. Body. Still he was not disturbed. So when Brahmaji came and saw Hiranyakashipu's condition, his whole body was eaten by ants, then he sprinkled some water from his pot and Hiranyakashipu again became a handsome young man. Ravana also wanted to become immortal, but he did not believe in yagya. He was like the modern 20th century Ravana. The 20th century Ravana, they want to kidnap Sita without Ram. They want Sita, but they don't want Ram. They want Lakshmi, but they don't want Narayana. Lakshmi also means money, wealth, and Narayana means Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Lakshmi is constitutionally supposed to be always on the side of Narayana, and Sita is supposed to be on the side of Ram. But the modern-day materialists, they want Sita and Lakshmi, but they don't want Narayana and Ram. So Ravana had kidnapped Sita for Ram. So the present-day Rāvanas, they want to go to the heavenly planets and they want to enjoy with women. And they want Lakṣmī because without money you can't enjoy. In India around Diwali time all the businessmen do puja. They do some prayers in their businesses. But they will do only Lakṣmī puja, not Lakṣmī Narayana. In other words, they will only worship the Goddess of Fortune. But they don't want to worship Narayana. So even if you want Lakṣmī, there's no harm, but you must want Narayana along with Lakṣmī. So Rāvān had kidnapped Sītā and he was planning to make a staircase to the heavenly planets. Ultimately he was smashed by the personality of Godhead Lord Rāma Chandra. So the modern-day so-called Rāvānas and Hiranyakāśipūs, they want women and money but they don't want God. So even if you want to become deathless, we have to take advantage of this shloka of the Isha Upanishad. The Isha Upanishad is telling us, don't make one-sided attempts in your struggle for existence. One-sided attempt means don't just concentrate on material activities and forget spiritual activities. For example, in your country, there are so many big institutes of learning. There is also the very prestigious USSR Academy of Sciences, but these are all one-sided attempts in our struggle for existence. So the Isha Upanishad is telling us, don't be one-sided. If you want to complete— if you want to cultivate material knowledge, along with that you must cultivate spiritual knowledge also. Brahmaji, the creator, he created both principles of ignorance and principles of knowledge, just like The government, the government has a Justice Department to make sure that people get justice, and they also have a Criminal Department to make sure the criminals get punished. So they have a Justice Department and a Criminal Department so that the Criminal Department will take care of the criminals and the Justice Department will make sure that everything, everyone is properly dealt with. So similarly, Brahmaji, he created the principles of ignorance And he also created the principles of knowledge. He first created the principles of ignorance. Why did he create the principles of ignorance? Krishna bhay moka hanabhoga vanchakare dekatasta mayatara japatya darek. Because basically everyone who comes to the material world is one who wants to forget the Lord. So the Lord had to create an environment in which if they want to forget the Lord, perfect opportunity existed. Brahmajī established the principles of ignorance through the following different aspects of ignorance. Identification with this body. Identifying with the body is one aspect of ignorance. Because as long as you identify with the body as your real self, you can never become free from birth and death. Another aspect of illusion is, I am the boss, I am the proprietor of everything I survey. This is my house, my factory, my, my, my, my, my. So when you identify with your property, with your possessions, then you get more entangled in the miseries of birth and death. Prabhupāda gives a nice story. Prabhupāda said once there was a very rich man and he had built a very, very big house and he was very attached to that house. But everybody has to die, so the rich man also died. So the rich man, in his next life, he took his birth as a cobbler. And he, as a cobbler, he was working at a shop in front of his old house. This was the Bolshoi Dome that he had built in his previous life. In India, it is very common to see cobblers, they just put up temporary shops in front of big houses or whatever. So one day This cobbler came inside the very house that he had built in his previous life and now left it in the hands of his sons. And his sons, when they saw this cobbler coming inside the big house, they said, "Who gave you permission to come inside this house?" And they beat him up and kicked him out. So Prabhupāda gave this story. It's a true. So this story shows how you may, if you identify with this property, with your possessions, how later on you will have to face the reaction. So one aspect of ignorance is to identify with your possessions. My house, like in the West, like these in the Western countries also, when people have a car, they consider the car to be like their wife. They spend so much time decorating their car, decorating their house. Another aspect of ignorance that Brahmaji created was the fear of death. Everybody is fearful of death. Am I right? Even in your country, when people are about to die, don't they tell the doctor, "Please extend my life." Why do they say that? A man is so sick, he cannot move his body in the bed, but he's still telling the doctor, "Please, doctor, just little more time." 'Few more years, few more, some plans are not completed.' So this fear of death is due to identification with the body. And it was one of Brahmaji's different aspects of ignorance. So the fear of death is there because we don't know about our future. Everybody, the materialist, if you ask him, 'What happens after death?' What will he say? 'I don't know and I don't care.' So the fear of death is not in the mind of a devotee. Because living or dead, the devotee is going to continue to serve Kṛṣṇa. So the devotee has no fear of death. So Brahmājī created these different aspects of ignorance, such as identifying with the body, identifying with the, with the, with one's possessions, the fear of death, the struggle for existence. The struggle for existence is exhibited by the foam that comes out of the mouth when somebody has to work hard. After creating the principles of the different aspects of ignorance, Brahmaji established different aspects of knowledge. So both were there side by side, so the living entity could make his free choice. Just like Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Bhagavad-gītā second chapter, Arjuna surrendered to Krishna. Arjuna in the seventh verse of the second chapter said, "Now I'm completely confused about my duty. Please therefore guide me what is best for me." And then Kṛṣṇa started giving the philosophy. And in the 18th chapter, Kṛṣṇa asked Arjuna, "Is your illusion now gone?" Arjuna said, "Yes, my illusion is now gone." And then Kṛṣṇa said, "Now, Arjuna, you may do as you like." So exactly with the same principle, Brahmā-jī created ignorance and knowledge. And the living entity has been given the choice to either go on the path of ignorance on the path of knowledge. So the different aspects of knowledge which Brahmaji created were as follows. He created the principle of tapasya, because without tapasya, austerity, you cannot have love of God. Then he created the path of yoga. Yoga doesn't mean you just do some bodily exercise so that you become healthy. And why do people want this so-called good health? Because good health is a medium to sense enjoyment. Without good health, they cannot enjoy. Therefore In America, if you go on a nice warm day, there will be literally hundreds of people jogging on the streets. They will not come to Mangala Arati, they will not come and join the Hare Kṛṣṇa, but they will run for 1 or 2 hours and then lament. The other day I saw a very interesting scene in your country. Because my hotel in Leningrad was very far from our center, so I saw the man, at least for 20 minutes when we were driving, he was racing all along. So just imagine how much effort that man was putting in his race to keep ahead of the goods train. If only a fraction of that effort he was to put to understand Kṛṣṇa, life would be successful. So Brahmājī, He created the path of tapasya and the path of yoga. So yoga means the science by which you can understand Bhoga, God. Yoginām api sarveśaṁ madgāte nānta-rātmānaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, "He is the perfect yogi who always meditates on Me as the Lord in the heart." So sometimes people may say, "Do you do yoga?" You say, "Yes." Sometimes when you distribute your books, you can mention that these books contain knowledge of the ancient science of yoga. So yoga is a science by which you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Then Brahmājī established the path of Sankhya. Sankhya is a science by which you understand the difference between matter and spirit. There was another bogus, uh, Kapila Dev who presented a bogus Sankhya philosophy. But the real Sankhya philosophy has been presented by Lord Kapila Dev. In the third canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Brahmājī created different aspects of ignorance which we have described to you briefly, and then He established the path of enlightenment so that if one wants to take advantage, he can perfect his existence. Just like in your country also, the citizens have a free choice. If they follow the laws of the state, then nobody will bother them and they can live as free citizens. And if they disobey the laws of the state, then they had to go to the prison house. So the same principle applies with regards to Krishna. So I want to discuss the four aspects of knowledge that Brahmanji created. So tapasya is one of the four aspects of knowledge created by Lord Brahman. What is the meaning of tapasya? Different people have different understanding of tapasya. Like in India, for example, you have some yogis When it is very cold, they will go and take that bath in the cold Ganga, in the cold water. And it is very— when it is very hot, they will light fire on all four sides and they will sit in the middle. Like when it's very hot, people of your country either go to the beach or you want to put the fan or the air conditioner on. But when it's very hot, none of you think of lighting fire on all four sides and make the flames go high and you sit in the middle of the fire. You do that? We? Thee? No. And when it's very— Do you have a river in Riga? Daugava. Daugava. So when it's cold in December, none of you think of going to the Daugava for a bath. But there are yogis who do that in India, and they do it under the name of tapasya. I remember in 1976, I had gone with Prabhupāda to attend the Kumbha Mela festival in Kurukshetra. And Kurukshetra is the place where the Gītā was spoken. So one of the highlights of that festival in Kurukshetra was that there was one so-called baba, swami, who had not spoken to anyone for 14 years. So he— anybody would go to him, he would write down on the board and he would talk. He was a— you know, and so everybody was going to visit him. So Prabhupāda said, look at this foolishness. He has a tongue. Instead of using that tongue to glorify the Lord, he says, "No." He does everything by writing. So just to gain cheap popularity, people will try these different tricks. So this is not the meaning of tapasya. Tapasya means performing austerities for the pleasure of the Supreme Lord. Just like you may have a friend who is going through a hard struggle. But as long as that hard struggle is for somebody else, you don't care. But if he goes through a hard struggle to do some favor for you, then you feel indebted to him. So similarly, when tapasya is for the pleasure of Kṛṣṇa, then that tapasya has some spiritual significance. The factory worker also has to do tapasya. He has to work very hard. The engineering student has to work hard for 5 years before he gets his degree. So Tapa-seva panam jyotir-bhāgavatam adho-kṣajām. Kṛṣṇa is adho-kṣajām. Adho-kṣajām means very difficult to obtain. But Kṛṣṇa can be obtained through the medium of bhakti. To try and understand Kṛṣṇa with your own material senses, you will never, never, never, never, never succeed. So for the Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees, what is tapasya? One aspect of tapasya for devotees is we avoid 4 types of sinful activities. The mind and the senses are saying, "No, come on." The eyes are saying, "Show me something beautiful." The ears are saying, "Give me some modern Michael Jackson to hear." And the nose is saying, "Give me some Chanel No. 5 to smell." But the devotee controls the senses. Svādhāpasya is following the regulative principles. But that is not enough. Prabhupāda used to say the pigeons and the monkeys are also pure vegetarians. But at the same time they have sex 100 times a day. So we have to go beyond just rules and regulations. Another aspect of tapasya is to chant our rounds. The mind sometimes does not want to cooperate. Just like when you go out on book distribution, you have to go through a lot of tapasya. The mind says, don't approach that person. He may laugh at you. He won't even talk to you. Don't waste your time. But you have to keep pushing with spiritual determination. So this tapasya for the pleasure of Kṛṣṇa is real tapasya. Then Rāmādhī also established the path of yoga, which I have explained. Yoga means the art of understanding God. He established the path of jnāna to cultivate spiritual knowledge by which God can be understood. And the Sāṁkhya philosophy. Sāṁkhya is the study of matter and spirit. You must know how matter is created. Just like in your country, there's so much of natural resources like oil, gold, and other resources. But how was this matter, how were the natural resources created? They were not created by the czars, nor were they created by Lenin or Stalin. They were put over there by God, Bhoga. So matter is being activated by the presence of spirit. Without spirit, matter cannot move. You can keep this book on that table, but unless somebody will come and lift it, the book will not move. So the modern-day scientists are saying life comes from matter. We say no, life comes from life because it is life that influences the matter. They say now we can produce a test tube baby. Do you know what a test tube baby is? So they would— they may be able to produce a test tube baby, but the semen which goes into the tube has come from a living entity. If they can produce synthetic semen and then do it, then we'll admit they've done something. So they produce one test tube baby and they talk about it for 10 years. Krishna is producing thousands of millions of test tube babies every second, so we should naturally talk only of Krishna. So matter comes from life, and the origin of life is Krishna. So Sankhya philosophy is the understanding of the theory of matter and spirit. So if you understand Sankhya philosophy, then you understand that everything comes from God, and then you surrender to that Bhagavan. So Brahmaji— and then Brahmaji also established the path of jnana. Jnana means spiritual knowledge to understand God. Jnana doesn't mean material knowledge to forget God. Just like all this mundane knowledge that we have in society today, that jnana will just help us to forget God. Just like we have seen in society, these so-called educated people, they don't turn to God so easily. I have to say that your country is somewhat little exception, but in most parts of the world, if you have education, you don't turn to God so easily. In the Bhāgavatam it says that 4 things become your enemy for spiritual advancement. One is education. If you have too much of material education, you don't surrender to God easily. The other is beauty. If you're very handsome or beautiful, you again don't turn to God. If you're a handsome man, all the women are after you. And if you're a beautiful woman, all the men are after you. And then you become very proud. You say, oh, so many people are after me, must be I'm very special. And then wealth. When you have wealth, you don't surrender to God easily. Because you think that with wealth I can buy anything. In English there's a saying, money makes the mare go. That is, money moves everyone. A rich man thinks with his money he can buy anyone and anything. So no need to go to boga. So Brahmaji established these paths of ignorance and paths of knowledge so that we can make the right choice. Therefore Thakura Bhaktivinoda has instructed everyone, jāre dakho tahai kāho Kṛṣṇa-paddeś. Whoever you say Please give him knowledge about Krishna, because knowledge about Krishna is beneficial for everyone, and knowledge about other entities is liability for everyone. So Brahmaji created aspects of ignorance and knowledge, and then the living entity has a free choice which path he wants to take. So we should know cultivate both spiritual knowledge and material knowledge side by side. This verse is very clearly stating that the path of avidya is actually the path of repeated birth and death. So those who are foolishly under the influence of avidya, they don't mind going through the cycle of birth and death. When you tell them, materialist, you'll have to take an animal's body for eating all this meat, he says, okay, I'll do it, no problem. They don't mind it because their mentality has fallen to the levels of animals. The animal cannot recognize its future, cannot plan its future. And a human being who has uncontrolled senses like the animals, he is also totally bewildered and lost. So human life has to be so molded that we can take advantage of this human life for correct purposes. Prabhupāda gives an example in the purport. He says the material fever must not increase from 105 to 107 degrees, rather it must go down. Just like when you are sick, You don't go to the doctor and tell him, "Please give me medicine to increase my temperature." You tell him to decrease your temperature. So what modern society is doing, it is increasing our material temperature. Therefore it is the duty of the devotee Vaiṣṇava to go from place to place, house to house, village to village, city to city, country to country, planet to planet, and to give everyone this philosophy. Jīv-jāgo jīv-jāgo gaura-chandabhūle. Kuta niddha jao maya pīśa chīra ko le. Thakur Bhaktinath said, "Oh conditioned soul, please get up, please get up." You may say, "I am already up. I don't need to get up." But Thakur Bhaktinath says, "Please get up spiritually." He says, "You are sleeping in the lap of this witch known as Maya." So Thakur Bhaktinath's plea is, please get up and come to spiritual life. So similarly, every devotee has to go and travel to everyone he can see. And tell him, please take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, please take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when we humbly beg people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa is very, very pleased with our effort. And when Kṛṣṇa is pleased, then our mission in life is successful. You water the root of the tree, all the branches are automatically nourished. You put food in the stomach, all the parts of the body become strong. And if you don't put food in the stomach, then they all suffer. Just like once Prabhupāda used to say a story, Prasad Raaval, that once all the parts of the body had a meeting and they were saying, "Why is it that everything nice that is cooked, it has to first go to the tongue?" So all the parts of the body decided, all the parts of the body decided they are going to go on zabostak. So they all decided to go on strike and the hand said, "I'm not going to lift anything from the dining table to put in my mouth." The eye said, The moment I see some nice food, I'm just going to close the eyes. And the leg said, I'm not going to walk towards the kitchen or the dining table. So all the senses decided that now they're going to boycott the tongue. So they had a complete jabasthokh vaka, complete strike. But then they realized that all the parts of the body were becoming weak. The hand said, oh, I'm so weak, I can't even lift a small paper. The eye said, I'm so weak, I can't even open anymore. I just feel like sleeping all the time. And the leg said, I can't even walk. What's happened to me? So they were all having a meeting now, what to do. Since they stopped feeding the stomach, all of them have become weak. They didn't know why they are becoming weak. Then one of the parts of the body said, because we stopped feeding this. Then they withdrew their Zabas Tovaka and they started feeding the stomach. And when they withdrew their Zabas Tovaka and then All the parts of the body became strong again. So similarly, when we are on strike against God, you will always suffer. But if we follow the laws of God and act according to the laws of God as they are coming down through the parampara, then there is no question of any suffering. Therefore, this verse is very significant. In this verse, Kṛṣṇa is saying that one must cultivate both material knowledge and spiritual knowledge side by side. So what this means is that we are not against modern technology, as I said earlier in the lecture. We are not against the so-called progress of society, but we are against the so-called progress without keeping God in the center. So one who is cultivating spiritual knowledge, he can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death. And one who can transcend the cycle of birth and death, he can become immortal. Immortal means becoming free from the cycle of birth and death. So we will stop over here on this verse and take on questions. Hare Krishna.

When we are cooking vegetables, preparing prasadam, we are killing, you know, living entities, vegetables, for example. And does it mean that when they are dying, they immediately accept another body, or they wait So, when we offer the vegetables to Kṛṣṇa, then they take another birth. And what will be the next body of such?

Of these vegetables that we— Yeah. So your question is, when we cut the sabji, is that when the transmigration takes place, or when you offer it?

Oh yeah, as far as I understand, the question is When they are dying? Only when we cut? Or they died by— wait, when we offer them to Kṛṣṇa? Is it about this?

When they are offered to Kṛṣṇa, then it guarantees that they will get a higher birth. When you offer, just like these garlands, vegetables, etc., when they are offered to Kṛṣṇa, then at least you get a human birth again.

Yeah, and the soul goes— does it go immediately to another body, or it waits when we offer the body?

Immediately. Immediately.

In the first shloka of Padashahasrta, it is said that—

No, Isha Upanishad.

Ah, sorry, Isha Upanishad.

It says that everyone should accept only as much as he needs for his survival.

Yeah, and the question is, how can we understand what is our quota?

Quota is based on simple living, high thinking. The guru and advanced Vaishnava can tell you how much your quota should be. Obviously, suppose you are married and you have a family, then you have to have enough where you can live and eat and so on. Of course, different people have different quotas. In America, you are considered poor unless you have 3 big cars. But in India you'll be considered poor if you don't have a place to put a roof on your head. In your country also you may have a different definition of poor. So obviously in different societies you have different yardsticks. But therefore our standard is the standard Prabhupada gave us: simple living, high thinking. A devotee needs a place to sleep. You don't need a big mansion, but at least you need, depending on the size of your family, some rooms. You at least need prasadam twice or thrice a day, unless you want to live like Dhruva Maharaj. And you need some clothing to wear, unless you want to live like the yogis in the Himalayas. So you need these basic elements. What is the meaning of the word Avadhuta? Avadhuta is like a self-realized soul. He has no— he doesn't care for where he lives and so on. He just travels from one place to another. Don't you all have some spiritual question based on this verse?

Can we use everything in material world to satisfy Kṛṣṇa or not everything?

Obviously you can't use everything. You can't use drugs in service to Kṛṣṇa. You can't use meat in service to Kṛṣṇa. So what you can use in service to Kṛṣṇa, what you can't, has to be approved by the guru and the sadhu and the śāstra. Just like an obedient child, he always comes to the mother and says, "Mother, can I do this? Can I do that?" Similarly, a devotee should always be checking.

He heard, he knows that the soul comes into the body of man through the grains, no? And is there any connection with our fasting in the Ekadasi, that we don't take grains, beans?

Prabhupāda says, the nectar of devotion, let it be fast on Ekadasi. Then there will be enough grains for the whole world to be fed. Like, I understand that even in your country there are shortage of grains in Lithuania and Latvia, many parts of the republics, many parts of the country. So if everybody was to fast, if all Russians were avoiding grains every Ekadasi, great help, isn't it?

Is it the only reason?

No, Ekadasi is also a very auspicious day for spiritual advancement. So if you avoid grains, increase your chanting, reduce your bodily maintenance on that day, then it is very good for spiritual advancement.

Why it is so? When we are hearing, he is asking, when we are hearing senior devotees, guru or senior devotees, or we are reading something in books, we understand everything, but in some situation Forget everything. Apply this knowledge. Yeah.

We have difficulty in applying.

Yeah.

Therefore, it is the business of the guru or the advanced devotee to travel from location to location to give people spiritual knowledge. Because this is how māyā works. There's a saying in English, when the cat is away, the mice are all playing. So when the guru and other senior Vaiṣṇavas are not there, māyā is very strong. Therefore, one should take advantage of senior association whenever he gets a chance. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, just like when the clouds come out in the rainy season, when the peacock sees the clouds, he begins to dance in ecstasy. So similarly, when you have the opportunity of asking or associating with those who are spiritually fixed on the path, you should feel very happy. Nārada Muni was asked by his disciple Vyāsadeva, How did he obtain such a high birth? Then Narada Muni told him how in his previous birth his mother was a servant in the house, maidservant in the house of great sages, and how he had the opportunity of eating the remnants of foodstuff left by the great sages, serving them and listening to them, and how as a result of the loyal service and association, now he had obtained such a high birth. Just like suppose you are suffering from a big disease, chronic disease, and some expert surgeon is coming from America or somewhere, then you feel very happy, you can meet him because you think that you can get your disease cured. I have seen in your country, at least, the devotees are very, very anxious to hear. Any more questions? So what is the key point? What is the Isha Upanishad stating in the verse that we discussed today? Who knows? So this verse today is very practical. You can use this verse for your preaching to so-called modern scientists. You can show the modern scientists how the Īśa Upaniṣad says there is no harm in science, but you must cultivate God consciousness side by side. So what I like to do, I'll take a 5-minute break now. I want to get nectar devotion. You all can do kīrtan for 5 minutes, and I'll come back in 5-10 minutes and start the next class. Hare Krishna!

Hare Krishna!

Lama Lama Ale Ale.