Śrī Īśopaniṣad 3: Who is the Killer of the Soul? | Rus-Split | 05.05.90 | Gopal Krishna Goswami

The third verse of the Shri Isha Upanishad. Asuryam. Asuryam. The verse is on the board. Nama. Nama.

Te.

Te.

Lokah.

Lokah. Andena.

Andena.

Dharmasaarathah. Dharmasaarathah.

Tantah.

Tantah. Sri. Sri. Tamas te pretyabhik shanti, ye ki chatma hanujanaha, ye ki chatma hanujanaha. Asurya nama te loka, Asurya nama te loka. Andhe natama sabrataha, andhe natama sabrataha. Tamas te pretyabhik shanti, Tamas te pretyabhik shanti, ye ki chatma Ekichat Mahano Janaha. Ekichat Mahano Janaha. Asurya Nama Te Loka. Asurya Nama Te Loka. Ande Natamasarvataha. Ande Natamasarvataha. Tamste Pretya Bhikchanti. Tamste Pretya Bhikchanti. Ekichat Mahano Janaha. Ekichat Mahano Janaha. Asurya. Asurya. Nama. Nama. Te.

Te.

Loka. Loka. Planete. Planete. Andhina. Andhina. Tamasah. Tamasah. Abritah. Abritah. Tan. Tan. Khe.

Khe.

Rekhyah. Rekhyah. Abhigacchanti. Abhigacchanti. Ye, cha, ātmā, hanā, janahā. Om Jñānātimaṇḍasya jñānāṁ jñānāśalakya cha kṣirmilitaṇyena tasmai Śrī Gurave Namah. Śrī Tītanyāmano viśvam sapitam yena bhūtale soyaṁ rūpakadāvayam dadāti svāpadaṇḍikam. Bande ham Śrī Guru Śrī uttāpada-kamnan Śrī Guruṇḍvaiṣṇava-nāśṭha Śrī-lūpam sa-gājatam sahāgina-ragūnātāṇvitam tam sajevam sadve tam sabaduhutam parijana saitam Kṛṣṇa-cetanya-devam Śrī-rādhā Kṛṣṇa-padāṇa sahāgina-lalitā Śrī-viśākā-nitāmśa jāi Śrī Kṛṣṇa-cetanya-prabhu-nityānanda Śrī-advaita-gadādhār Śivaśrī-dhigora-bhaktabindaḥ Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So before we discuss this verse, I will just summarize the 3 verses from the Śrī Īśopaniṣad that we have discussed in the past 3 days. First we discussed was the invocation. Anybody remembers what was the key point of that invocation verse? The Lord is complete and his creation is also complete. And in the next verse that we discussed, what was the key point in the verse we discussed yesterday? So in the 3 verses of the Sri Isha Upanishad, we have read how the Lord is complete, how everything belongs to the Lord. One should only use what he needs for his maintenance, and if everybody has This right mentality, that is, everything belongs to the Lord and one should only accept as much as he needs for his survival, then one may even live for thousands of years. Now this verse explains that if one is a killer of the soul, then he will definitely have to face punishment. Ātmā-hanahā. In this verse, the word is used Ātmā-hanahā, which means the killer of the soul. So this verse is explaining, whoever is the killer of the soul, such person will have to go to the hellish planets where he will have to suffer misery and pain. In today's civilization, people do not believe in life after death. Today's civilization can be called a soul-killing civilization. Everybody is killing his soul. People do not believe That is, human life has a purpose. Whether you are living in Soviet Union or any other part of the world, everybody had— just has one principle in life, and that is the principle of sense enjoyment or killing the soul. People do not believe in life after death because they do not recognize that the soul is eternal. In your country, there are so many scientists, but if you were to ask these scientists in your country Why is it that when a person dies, he loses all lustre from his face? They will not be able to reply. Why is it that as long as the soul is in the body, we are ready to talk to the individual, but when the soul leaves the body, nobody wants to go next to that person? So we must cultivate knowledge about the dūṣa in this human form of life. That is why the Bhāgavad-gītā starts with this information about the dūṣa. Krishna takes a whole chapter of the Gita to explain the position of the soul. So basically, in society, there are two groups of individuals. One is the asuras or the demons, and the other are the suras or the devotees. So these suras are interested in glorifying God, just like today all of you had gone on Hare Naam on Gorki Street. Now we read in the papers that in Soviet Union, since the liberal laws have been introduced, all the religious groups are becoming very active. But you please tell me, how many religious groups in Soviet Union are going on the streets to glorify God? Is there any other religious group besides ISKCON that goes on the road for chanting the names of God? Almost none. Because people do not know that how God should be worshipped. People's acceptance of religion is very artificial. They do not understand the real meaning of religion. The real meaning of religion is to develop love of God. Just like today is a very nice day, but if you go to the churches in Moscow, you'll find they're all empty because everybody's out on the beaches and they're trying to take advantage of this nice weather offered by God. So because people do not have knowledge about the eternal position of the soul, What is their understanding? That this body is their real identity and this body is the object of worship. Therefore, they will spend so much time trying to make this body look beautiful. If you want to flatter a man, all you have to tell him is how handsome or beautiful he looks. And if you want to insult a man, just tell him how ugly he looks. Because everybody is just worshipping the body. And because they're worshipping the body, they are busy thinking about the senses of the body. So the suras, or the devotees, they are always trying to please the lotus feet of the Lord. Their life is as bright as the brightness that is coming from the sun just now. But the asuras, they are exactly the opposite. They are just interested in sense enjoyment at any cost. So in this verse, we— Isha Upanishad is explaining what will happen to such people. Who just engaged in this destructive path of sense enjoyment. That is, he will have to take his birth in the planet where the faithless ignorant people live. In other words, one will have to take his birth in the lower species of life. People do not realize how valuable this human form of body is. In the purport of this verse, Prabhupada gives one very nice example. In the Vedas, it is said that this material world is like an ocean. And this human body is compared to a strong boat, and the Vedic scriptures or the instructions of the spiritual master are compared to the favorable breeze. And the facilities that a human body offers, that is like the expert boatman. Actually, the— I'm sorry, the spiritual master and the instructions are like the boatman, and the facilities of the human body are like the favorable breeze. So if we utilize this boat correctly, then we can cross over this vast material ocean and we can achieve the goal of life. But unfortunately, today we see that people do not want to take advantage of the spiritual philosophy that is available. Athāto brahmā-jijñāsa. That is, the human form of life is given to us not to live like the cats, dogs, camels, and asses, but to live according to the principles of the scriptures. Swāved-vāraḥ hośrā-karaye sāṁṣuta-puruṣā-paśu. Nayat kanna patopeto jātu-nama-gadagrajaha. This is a verse that is found in the second canto, part one of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And this verse very nicely describes the soul-killing animalistic civilization that we see in society today. The verse explains how those, the materialists, are like dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. And those who are like dogs, hogs, camels, and asses They are busy glorifying others who are also of a similar mentality. Why is the materialist compared to a dog? The dog will serve anyone as long as it gets its food to eat. The dog does not discriminate what is the character of the individual. Just like in today's society, we see the police force uses the dogs to catch the thieves, and the thieves use the dogs to keep the policemen away. The dog cannot discriminate. Whoever maintains the dog gets his loyalty. So the materialists, wherever they get some means of sense enjoyment, that is whom they are ready to serve. Then the materialist is compared to the, the asses. Why? Because the ass, he's used to carrying a heavy burden of load. In your country and in Western countries, you don't see the asses in action. Maybe you see the asses just in the zoos. But those who have come to India and the third world countries will see the asses at work. In these countries, the asses do a lot of work. So the ass, he carries this heavy burden of load all day. So similarly, the materialist is thinking that unless I carry all these heavy burden, I cannot live peacefully. They have no time for self-realization, but they have all the time for sense pleasures. So Prabhupāda used to give the example of the ass. In India, the washerman, he carries the dirty clothes on the ass's back. The ass doesn't know that a little bit of grass that he needs to eat, he can get by the arrangement of the Lord in any case. Then the Bhāgavatam compares the materialist to the camel. I think camel is another animal you don't see in the cities of Soviet Union, but in these third world countries you see the camel in the cities also. So the camel usually bites on thorns, and when the camel bites on thorns, his tongue begins to bleed. And the camel thinks foolishly that these thorns are very tasty. So similarly, there's so much stress upon sex life in today's soul-killing civilization. They don't understand behind every drop of semen that is lost, so many ounces of blood is also being lost. And then the gross materialist is— the asura is compared to the hog. What does the hog do? He mates without discrimination. Doesn't matter whether it's wife, mother, sister, daughter. It's all the same to him. And he will eat only filth, stool. So that's essentially what present-day society also is doing. They have no so-called principles of morality in life, and They will eat without discrimination and mate without discrimination. Therefore, the Iṣopaniṣad is clearly telling us that since the soul is eternal, if we do not use this human life correctly, then we will have to transmigrate to the asura planets, the planets where the demons live. And in these planets, we will have to take our birth in what? In the lower species of life. And we will have to work in ignorance and darkness. If you analyze the animal life and human life, you will see that both animals and human beings have basically the same propensities and abilities. But human beings have greater intelligence. Prabhupāda argues in this purport that this special intelligence or facility has been given to the human being. Why? So that he can cultivate this life for God consciousness. So somehow or the other, a human life should be so molded Then we can cultivate the principles of God consciousness. The other day we were discussing the 12th chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, and in that chapter we discussed how, we saw how, in all, at some or the other, we should mould our life in such a way that we can serve the Supreme Lord. The highest is if we can constantly think about the Lord and use our intelligence to serve the Lord. But if we cannot do that, then we can follow the regulative principles of devotional service. But if we cannot follow the regulative principles of devotional service, then you can work for Krishna. Or if you cannot work for Krishna, you can help the cause of Krishna consciousness. So somehow or the other, we must connect ourselves to the process of devotional service. Thousand times you must have read the human life has not been given for sense enjoyment, but human life has been given for self-realization. So human life is given for self-realization, which means we must use this human life to understand our relationship with the Supreme Lord. Sometimes people want to know, "What will happen if I take to spiritual life and I'm not able to complete my spiritual life?" In the 6th chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna says, kacchena bahaya vibhrastā cañā-brahmīvānāśyati aprātristam mahā-bhāho vimudho-brahmanāpati. "O mighty armed Kṛṣṇa, does not such a man Who is bewildered from the path of transcendence fall away from both spiritual and material success and perish like a riven cloud with no position in any sphere. So this is a question that strikes many of us on many occasions. In this verse, Arjuna compares the position of one who may take to spiritual life and not complete it to a riven cloud. So what is the ribbon cloud? I will explain. Sometimes a small piece of cloud breaks away from another, another small piece of cloud, and it tries to join the bigger piece of cloud, but it is not able to destroy the bigger piece of cloud. And by the wind which is coming, it is blown up. So this small piece of cloud, it was, which was previously a part of a smaller cloud, piece of cloud, He tries to join the bigger cloud, it cannot join, and it is blown up by the wind. Now Arjuna says, "What will happen, Kṛṣṇa, to one who takes to spiritual life but he's not able to complete it? So neither he has material happiness nor he has spiritual happiness. What is the position of such an entity?" Arjuna makes it very clear that these doubts of his can only be clarified by Kṛṣṇa. Arjuna very clearly says, "But for You, Kṛṣṇa, nobody can remove my doubt." So similarly, to get our doubts removed, we have to go to the perfect authority, not just anyone. Just like when you have to do major surgery in your body, you just don't catch any doctor and anybody on the street and tell him to do it, but you go to the proper surgeon to get the surgery done. Therefore we see that Parīkṣit Mahārāja went to Śukadeva Gosvāmī. We see Arjuna going to Kṛṣṇa. By going to the proper person, we get the right information. So in response to this question, Kṛṣṇa stated: Partha naiveha namūtra vāvena sa sasya vidyate na hi kalyāna-kṛṭkaścid durgatim tathā gacchati. The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: "O son of Pretha, a transcendentalist engaged in auspicious activities does not meet with destruction either in this world or in the spiritual world. One who does good, my friend, is never overcome by evil." So Kṛṣṇa says that one who does good, he never meets with evil. Sometimes devotees also begin to get doubt. They say, "Oh, now in my youthful period I'm doing this devotional service." "But what will happen to me in the future?" Kṛṣṇa makes it clear, "One who does good will never be destroyed by evil." In other words, one who has done some service, that service will never go in vain. Kṛṣṇa says that either he's going to be born in the family of a yogi, of a brahmana, or in the family of a rich man. Because if you're born in the family of a brahmana, then from your very birth you're going to be getting this Vedic culture. And if you're born in a rich man's family, then again, you don't have to worry about your basic necessities of life and you can concentrate on spiritual mission. But unfortunately, what we see in society today is that if somebody is born in a rich man's family, then instead of taking advantage of that richness to understand God, they just use the money to forget God. So Krishna is making it clear. That one who does devotional service, one who has done some good, he will never be forgotten. Once you have served Kṛṣṇa, once you have done some service, you can never forget Him. It is our experience, sometimes devotees after doing some book distribution, chanting, etc., they leave the association of devotees. But it is our experience that they always come back. Because once they have tasted the higher standard of happiness, They cannot settle for anything inferior. Kṛṣṇa says: "A brahmā-bhuvana-loka-punar-avartana-rojana-māmopete dekhāntya pūṇā janmāna-vidyate." Even if you go to the highest planet of brahmā-loka, still you cannot escape the birth, death, disease, old age process. Just like when Iḥāṇe Kāśipū was trying to get a benediction from Lord Brahmā, Brahmā told him, That even I will have to die. So how can I give you a benediction that you will not die? So Kṛṣṇa is saying, from the topmost planet to the bottommost planet, every place is a place of misery where repeated birth and death is taking place. So it does not matter what material arrangement you make, does not matter how many Swiss bank accounts you have, does not matter how many Mercedes cars you have, does not matter how many soldiers are supporting you. The reality is, to kālaya-maśāśritam cannot be avoided by anyone. Therefore, the Iṣopaniṣad is trying to wake up the living entity to understand this point. So as we said earlier, there are essentially two segments of individuals in society, the sūras and the asuras. The sūras are always thinking how God can be glorified. Just like they have discovered the video machine now, the video camera. So these videos are being used today by the devotees to glorify the Lord and His devotees. But the karmis had invented the videos for the purpose of sense enjoyment. So the Isura, or the devotee, is always thinking, how can I glorify the Lord more and more? So because the devotee loves the Lord, he's anxious to serve the Lord. If at all there is a— in the material world, The word "love" is very grossly misunderstood. Actually, the word "lust" is being accepted as love. Doesn't matter which part of the world you go to, 99% of the records, songs you hear on the radio are all based on love or lust. But by serving the Supreme Lord under the direction of the bona fide spiritual master, one can begin to develop love for the Lord. And the nature of this spiritual love is, it is fully satisfying. Kṛṣṇa says, ye yatha mām prapadeyante, all of them as they surrender unto Me, I will reward them accordingly. So the happiness or the reciprocation that we experience from Kṛṣṇa is based upon our surrender. Just like you cannot expect that in a class all students will get the same grades or all students will come first. So similarly, based upon our acceptance of Kṛṣṇa and guru's teachings, we make spiritual advancement and the Lord reciprocates. Brahma-bhūta-prasannātmānā so cāti na kāṅṣati. Kṛṣṇa says in the 18th chapter of the Gītā that those who are situated on the spiritual path, they are always joyful. Prahlāda Mahārāja stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatā: nā te vidyam svata-gatim i viśnuṇḍuraṣe bhār-artham anīnā andhāya tan-dheer-upāñyā-mānas. Prahlāda Mahārāja says: Today people do not know how happiness can be found. They do not know how happiness can be found, and it appears that the blind is leading all other blind men. Just like today is a very bright, very sunny, very nice weather, plus on top of that it's a holiday. So the asuras are saying, "Let's go to the park, let's go to the beaches, let's go and enjoy the nice weather." But the suras, or the devotees, are saying, "Oh, let us go out on harinama and distribute books because everyone's going to be outside, so we'll give them." Take advantage of this and give them these books. In the month of December in America, all stores, they stay open till 9 o'clock in the night every day. So a devotee said, "Oh, now people are staying up late, people are coming to shop for Christmas presents, so let us take advantage of this mood of spending money and start giving them our books." So the devotee is looking at every position, every, every condition to see how he can give God consciousness. There should be no denial on, no misunderstanding on this one point, which is that by taking to the process of devotional service, I am going to get real happiness. You may get some material happiness by having a good bank balance or a nice wife or a nice family situation, but how long will that happiness last? How many famous movie stars have come and gone? How many Napoleons have come and gone? How many great so-called political leaders have come and gone? So we can understand, does not matter how famous I may become, how powerful I may become, eventually what will be left behind is just my name and nothing else but my name. What is the value if after death my photo is being garlanded every day, but I have taken on a birth in the lowest species of life? Unfortunately, we are not thinking logically. We are scared of spiritual life, and being a foolish victim of our sense desires, we miss the valuable opportunity to perfect our existence. Therefore, Thakura Bhaktivedānta Mahāprabhu said, "Eimana durlabha mānavadeho paya kī kēho pāvana kēho." Thakura Bhaktivedānta Mahāprabhu said, "Oh foolish conditioned soul, if you don't utilize this human life correctly, Everything at the moment of death you will have to really regret. So this section of the Shri— this verse of the Isha Upanishad is very clearly warning the society, don't become an Ātmahana or killer of the soul. Because if you become a killer of the soul, then you will definitely have to take your birth in the lower species of life. And in these lower species of life, once you go, you'll have to wait for thousands of years before you get a human birth again. So we have to cultivate real religion. So I was telling you how the sūras, or devotees of the Lord, they want to look at every position and see how they can use it to serve the Lord. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a very practical philosophy. So many people from your country would not be practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness if you didn't find it to be practical. After all, you are getting no financial incentive for taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Like in the third world, in the poor countries of the world, the Christians are going and spreading Christianity, but they're spreading Christianity with the help of financial assistance. Like in India and these other countries, anybody wants to become a Christian, he at once gets about ₹5,000 and a chicken and a small house to live in. And if somebody, if somebody is, if somebody is willing to take to Islam, he also gets economic benefit, marriage for his children's, money for his children's marriage and education and so on. Prabhupāda was once giving a lecture in Dallas, America, and he said, when the Muslims went to India, they converted people by the sword, and when the Christians went to India, they converted people through economic incentives. Prabhupāda said, I am an old man, 80 years old, no money, nothing, and I came to your country. Still you people took to it.

Why?

Because Kṛṣṇa is all attractive. And because Kṛṣṇa is all attractive, all over the world people are taking to it. I am just amazed when I hear about how in your country, which is full of intelligent people, so many preaching centers are opening in so many corners of this Soviet land. So everybody knows that we are not giving people any economic incentive. You too. But why are people taking to it? Today I was talking to one devotee. Who is running a preaching center about 600 miles from Moscow, and he says, "Now whole families are joining, parents, children, children go to school, whole families." Many in a small village has opened a center, and in one year he has 30 people chanting 16 rounds. Because Kṛṣṇa is all attractive. This process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, reading the Bhāgavad-gītā, offering Kṛṣṇa prasāda, It is very simple and sublime. There is no complication in this process. You don't need a PhD degree to understand that this process works. Educated and uneducated, any member from any part of the world, anybody which takes to this process has been fully satisfied. So the conclusion of the Vedas is the human life must be used for spiritual realization. And the Vedic philosophy is for entire humanity. Kṛṣṇa, we should not forget, says, aham bija-pridaḥ pidaḥ, I am the seed-giving father of all living entities. This verse is very important. This verse is clearly also pointing out that if we misuse our human life, then there definitely will be punishment. In the 5th Canto of the Bhāgavatāma, it is explained how for different types of sinful activities there is going to be different types of punishment. It is not that regardless of how we act, the end result is going to be the same. In the Gītā, Kṛṣṇa clearly says: udhavaṁ kacchanti sattva-saḥ, madhyakacchanti tāmasaḥ. That is, those who act in the mode of goodness, they will go to the upper planets. The others will take their birth in the middle planets, and the others will take their birth in the lower planets. So it is not that regardless of how we act, the end result is going to be the same, but based on how we act, the next result is going to be decided. There is a certain law that is directing our transmigration process. In the 3rd Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Devahūti, who was the mother of Lord Kāpila, she said, "My dear son, you have said that there is transmigration of the soul. So if there is transmigration of the soul," "Please tell me, my dear son, how is it decided? What body am I going to get? What body is a person going to get? What is the basis?" So Lord Kāpīla said, karmanā deva-netreṇā-jantur-deho-papātaye stṛya-praveṣṭavudhāram pūṁsau reṭha-kṇaśrayaḥ. He says, karmanā, that is according to the activity that one engages in. Which are all being witnessed by many entities. The living entity enters through the semen of the male into the womb of the female and thereby takes birth. Just like in ordinary law, you get convicted when you have witnesses. So similarly, here there are several witnesses to every action we perform. One witness is the Paramātmā in the heart. The other witness is the Sun God and the Moon God. And the air god. So everything is being witnessed and they're all recording all the activities that we are executing. So to summarize this verse, after having established that the Lord is complete and His creation is complete, the creation is complete in the sense that within this creation there is ample facility for cultivating spiritual life. Then the Lord establishes, Vyāsadeva establishes— that the Lord is the real proprietor and controller of everything. And since the Lord is the proprietor of everything, you have no right to hold. Prabhupāda used to give an example that if you were to take a gunny bag and take the grains out on the floor, if you were to call the birds and say, "Come on, birds, come and take as many grains as you want," each of them would take as much as their belly can hold. But the human beings would come And not only put what is in there, what their bellies can hold, but also they would take more in their bags and take it home. Because human beings are essentially greedy. So in these, in the next verse of the Upanishads, it was established one should, recognizing that everything belongs to God, one should only keep as much as he needs for his survival and not more than that. And this is what we call spiritual communism. Political communism may be accepted or rejected, But spiritual communism is eternal dharma. And then Isha Upanishad says, man has a desire to become deathless. So there's no harm. You can become deathless. How? If you're engaged fully in serving the Lord all the time, because then even if you die, there's nothing lost because you just continue the process of devotional service. But if one doesn't accept that the Lord is the proprietor and I should only accept as much as I need for my survival. If I engage in sense enjoyment, then I become the killer of the soul. And one who is a killer of the soul, he will be sent to the hellish planets where he will transmigrate into lowest species of life in which there is but nothing but ignorance and darkness. So the choice is ours. Make the decision now. Either you can become an Ātmā-hana, killer of the soul, or he can become a surrendered devotee of the Lord. But do not think that the result is going to be the same. Don't think that if you buy one ticket, you can go with that ticket to Leningrad or to Siberia. This verse is very clear about the position of those who defy the laws of God. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So our program will be— I'll take questions for half an hour. Then we will give you a break for you to eat prasad. You must be hungry. Quiet!

We have one devotee who, while preaching, uses not only devotional knowledge but also knowledge of yoga and some other occult things. And different devotees treat him unequally. Some think him to be a bona fide preacher. Some think him to be Like that. Who is that devotee? His name is Krivanogov. He is from Kiev. So recently the devotees from your city invited him to hold some classes in public. So how should we treat him? Should we invite him or will you command?

Is he quite pure, that devotee? Yeah. It all depends upon the purity of the individual. Sometimes in preaching you may use a little bit of material knowledge to convince a person about the superiority of the Vedic conclusion. There's no harm in that. As long as he's not engaging in mundane talk for social— so he's not socializing, then it's okay. As long as he's not trying to cultivate, he's not getting into prajalpa, it's okay.

While he is preaching, devotees distribute a lot of books on his classes.

So that's good. If he is distributing lot of books, if he is Krishna conscious, then what is the problem? Now I do not know all aspects of this, okay? So you should bring up this question with your local authorities.

From the book of Dhammodara Das, we know that our consciousness is being formed by our individuality. The content of our consciousness is three modes of material nature.

What is the role of the Paramātmā?

Yes, in this consciousness, in our consciousness.

The Paramātmā is always the silent observer. Just like sometimes the mother or father may have the child playing in the room and the mother is just quietly watching the child. What the child is doing. And when the child gets into difficulty and cries for the mother's help, then the mother will go and help. So the Paramātmā is just witnessing, and the Paramātmā understands all our desires. Just like, for example, if you go through a beautiful garden, just by smelling you can say, oh, here's a rose flower, here's, here's some lotus flower, or whatever. So the Paramātmā can smell all your desires. The Paramātmā has very expert perception, and based on our desires, the Paramātmā guides us. Just why is it all of you have been guided to this place? Because you had the desire to get out of the cycle of birth and death. And why is it there are, there are so many people drinking the vodka and enjoying the sun on the beach and doing other nonsense activities? Because the Paramātmā knows they want sense enjoyment.

Does the conditioned soul always realize that this is the direction of Paramātmā, that Paramātmā is guiding him?

As long as the living entity is in the contaminated state, he cannot understand the signals of the Paramātmā. Just like if you are a trained pilot, You may understand the communication from the ground, from the radar tower, but if you are not a pilot, you won't even understand what the sounds mean. Therefore it is advised that in the initial stages one may take direction from the bona fide spiritual master, and the bona fide spiritual master can guide you.

Why do people don't accept, people don't accept the teachings of Kṛṣṇa? Because this is Kali-yuga acting, is acting, or Kali-yuga is acting because people don't accept Kṛṣṇa's teaching.

So you want to know, is it Kali-yuga to blame or the people to blame? If I am acting incorrectly, I can very easily say it is the influence of Kali-yuga, it's not my fault. It is just like the criminal telling the judge, it is not my fault that I committed the crime, it is the government's fault. Why did he allow a human being to walk on the road? So I wouldn't have murdered him otherwise. So the fault is not of Kali Yuga. The fault is of the individual. Just like, for example, on a rainy day, when you know, when you see the clouds, when you know it's going to rain, what do you do? You walk out of the house with the umbrella, isn't it? In a rainy day, you prepare yourself against the rain by taking the umbrella. So similarly, we protect ourselves from Kali Yuga by taking to the process of chanting holy name. There are thieves all over the city. So how do you take precaution? You lock up your house. When you park your car downstairs, you don't leave the car open. You lock it so that nobody will come and steal it. So just like you take precaution in these areas, you must take precaution against Kali Yuga by chanting the holy names of Kṛṣṇa.

So it's not our— it's not Kali Yuga's fault, it's our fault.

It's our fault, 100%. You may say I will take your question a step further. Somebody may say, "Why is Kṛṣṇa allowing Kali-yuga to manifest its influence?" We must understand that Kṛṣṇa, even when He puts His devotee into difficulty, He also gives the devotee a solution. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja was cursed to die by a Brahmin boy, but Kṛṣṇa sent him the cure. What was the cure? He sent Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So similarly you have Kali-yuga, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu has also given us a solution of Kali-yuga. So even though Kali-yuga is there, it is not that Kali-yuga is affecting everybody. It is only affecting those people who are not taking advantage of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction.

Is that true that Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted us to achieve Self-realization in this lifetime? And what did he say about that?

Yes, Prabhupāda wanted us to become Kṛṣṇa conscious in this lifetime, not make a long plan. Just like when you are hungry, you want to eat prasāda all in one stroke, as fast as you can. Suppose you are hungry and somebody gives you just one spoon of sabji every one hour, you will not be happy. Or if you are thirsty and somebody gave you just one drop of water every one hour, Or when you are in severe pain, you want all the pain to go in one second. You don't want the pain to go away gradually. So similarly, we should desire to make spiritual progress as fast as possible. Don't make a plan of 2 or 3 lifetimes. Prabhupāda used to say, don't go through the troublesome process of birth again. Whether you take your birth in the womb, even in a devotee mother's womb, you still have to go through the miseries of birth. Actually, if you become as good as me, that will be a failure in life. You have to become better than me.

What shall I do in order to become greater than you, better than you?

Chant Hare Krishna, read the books, follow the standard process which is there. And if you need any further information, we can give you.

There are some people who practicing some kind of religion, but they did— but they don't accept the Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Personality of Godhead, so, and they, they commit some offenses to the Lord. What are their destination and how should we treat them?

Well, if somebody is offending Kṛṣṇa, we should try and preach to him not to do it, but if he still continues to do it, then we should go away from him.

How can we avoid the Everest. The lust.

Lust. How to avoid lust? Or how to avoid envy? Is that your question? So envy comes because of the influence of false ego. I do not want anybody else to be better than me. I want to be better than everybody else. I want to have everything for myself. The rich nations are envious of the poor nations. So they will keep the poor nations poor. Envy is there due to bodily identification. As devotees, we should have what is known as spiritual envy. Spiritual envy is different from material envy. Just like amongst the gopis, of gopis, there is little bit of spiritual envy. When one gopi sees that she's— the other gopi is serving Kṛṣṇa more, then that devotee gopi says, "Oh, now I will serve more." So spiritual envy is healthy. Material envy is destructive. But you will be able to get rid of this envy by chanting attentively, avoiding the 10 offenses. Because once you are chanting attentively, avoiding the 10 offenses, then your bodily identification will go down. Your material temperature will go down.

You have quoted the verse from Bhagavad-gītā which states, "As they surrender unto Me," I reward them accordingly. And everybody follows My path. How can you comment on this?

Everyone follows My path in all respects?

Yes. How can you comment on this?

Because even the demons, if they are able to get their desires fulfilled, they get it fulfilled by the approval of the Lord. Just like in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says, sarvaśyaṁ caḥam hiddhi sāni veṣto mataḥ asmitaḥ jñānaṁ aphaḥ naṁ ca. "I am the source of remembrance and forgetfulness." So the remembrance that is coming to us, that is coming from Kṛṣṇa, and forgetting Kṛṣṇa, that strength is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇa. Not a blade of grass moves without God's permission. So in that respect, everybody is following Kṛṣṇa's path.

Are there any advanced devotees who know who they were in previous lifetimes?

The advanced devotee is not interested in finding out what he was in his previous life. When a person is being drowned in the ocean, you just want to run and bring him out of the ocean. You don't want to analyze how did he fall in the ocean. So it doesn't matter what we were, how we fell down. The important thing is how to get out of this.

Today you told us that the society is is divided into two classes.

Surādhana, asūrāḥ.

Is it possible for asūrāḥ to convert into asūrāḥ, and which are the conditions of that?

Of course it is possible for the asūrāḥ to be converted to asūrāḥ. By the mercy of the Vaiṣṇava, the blind man can have vision, the lame man can walk. So by spreading Kṛṣṇa, the moment an asūrāḥ accepts the philosophy, it becomes a sura. Lama Lama Ale Ale.