Śrī Īśopaniṣad 8: How great God is? | Rus-Split | 13.5.90 | Srila Gopal Krishna Goswami Maharaja

So today we are going to be discussing Īśa Upaniṣad, Nectar of Instruction, and also, uh, Caitanya-carṭamṛda. Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya. Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya. Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya.

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya.

Om namah bhagavate vasudevaya. Om namah bhagavate vasudevaya. So we're going to continue our discussion on Śrīya Uṣaṣṭra Upaniṣad, and today we are going to discuss Text 8.

Saḥ, saḥ, pariyāgāt, pariyāgāt, śokram, śokram.

Śrīrūpāṁ saccādaḥ prabhārāginaḥ rāguṇātāṇvitam tāṁ sadevam. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare, Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Hare, Hare. Sā pariya gacchakram akāyaṁ avranam, aśnāvilam śuddham apapāvidam, kaviṁ manisi paribhuḥ saṁbhūḥ, Yatha tatya to urathan vadat, tat cha svati vyasamabhya. So the Isha, Shri Isha Upanishad which we are discussing was compiled 5000 years ago by Shri Labhyasa Dev. Like the other Vedic scriptures, the Shri Isha Upanishad tells us how to establish a relationship with the Lord. Veda shastra kaisambhanda abhidaya payojana. The Vedic scriptures tell us How to establish our relationship with God and adhidaaya prayojana. Adhidaaya means to understand that I have duty towards God. Prayojana means to act with an understanding that I have a duty towards God. Many people may have the understanding, what is my relationship with God, but they are not acting according to the understanding. So that is useless. That is theoretical knowledge. Just like if you were to go to India, you'll find millions of people who accept Kṛṣṇa, but they don't follow Kṛṣṇa. That is useless. So in the verse that we discussed yesterday in Śrī Īśopaniṣad, we have seen how the uttama-adhikārī and madhyam-adhikārī devotee, he is completely able to understand that all living entities are part and parcels of God. And because they have the spiritual vision, They are not under the influence of illusion, and therefore they also have no anxiety. So in this verse, it is being described that such a person, such a person means a person who has proper spiritual vision, he must know who is the greatest of all. And who is the greatest of all?

That is Bhoga, or God.

No one can be greater than God. This verse of the Śrī Śrīpaññāśad is saying that God is the greatest. The so-called modern materialists, they want to be called great. They, but they cannot be compared to God. Kṛṣṇa is being described over here as the greatest. And in this verse, the transcendental nature of the Lord's body is being described. Now this description is being offered because the Śrī-Īśopaniṣad is establishing right from the very first verse that God is not formless, God is not without form, for God has a form. If you have a form, I have a form, how can God not have a form? Therefore, the statement of the Bible that man is made in God's image is very true and exactly what the Vedas are saying. Man is made in God's image, but the difference is that God's body is always divya, transcendental, whereas our body is the opposite, it is material. The Lord's body is so transcendental that it does not have veins and bones like you and I have. Advaita-macchūta-manādhī-ananta-rūpaṁ. Lord Brahmā has given us some information about— additional information about the transcendental nature of the Lord. He says advaita. Advaita means no difference between body and soul. Because the Lord's body is transcendental and it has no veins and bones, etc., there is no difference between the Lord's body and His soul.

Achuta.

Achuta means he is infallible. The Lord is Achuta in the sense he never makes any mistakes. You and I make 4 types of mistakes. We have a tendency to cheat. Everyone is cheating everyone. The leaders are cheating the public. They tell the public, give me your vote and I will solve your problems. And the voters, they are cheating the leader. They are saying, okay, we are giving you a vote, but you must do for us what we want. But they know that he will also not do. In many parts of the world, the government gives all the education to the students But when the students go in the market for a job, there is no job. Then our senses are imperfect. Without the aid of electricity or bulb, you can't see me, I cannot see you. We may have the eyes, but if we don't have the light to support the eyes, your eyes are useless. Our eyes, we are so proud of our eyes, we say, "Can you show me God?" But our eyes cannot even see the eyebrows that are only few centimeters from the eyes and it wants to see God. Can any of you see your eyebrows without going in front of the mirror? So you can't even see your eyebrows. You can't even see what's in the back of your head and you want to see God. So the conclusion is our senses are imperfect. We all make mistakes. Doesn't matter how great you are, you make mistakes. Just like in your country, now they are discovering that one time one person was great, but today we discover that he made so many mistakes. So same thing is happening in other parts of the world also. Even in India now they acknowledge the mistake that Mahatma Gandhi made. So everybody makes mistakes. So we— and we all get illusioned. Illusion means to understand I am this body. So a chūta, Kṛṣṇa is a chūta, but we are not a chūtas. Your temple president is called a chūta, but he's a chūtadā, servant of the real chūta. He's not the real chūta, the imitation. The real Achyuta is Kṛṣṇa. We are all imitation Achyutas. So, advaitam acyutam anādhi ananta-rūpam. Anādhi, anādhi means many. Anādhi means since time immemorial. Ananta-rūpam, He manifests Himself in many different forms. Ananta-rūpam, the God manifests Himself in many different forms. Adyam purāṇa puruṣaṁ nau-yoṇaṁ ca. He is the oldest entity, but he still looks very youthful, young. By material standard, on the battle of Kurukshetra, Kṛṣṇa was at least 128 years of age, but he looks like a youthful boy of 20 years of age. Kṛṣṇa doesn't get old with the passage of time. So he is the oldest entity, but he looks youthful. Have any of you seen a picture of Kṛṣṇa with white hair or wrinkled cheeks or teeth falling out, because Kṛṣṇa never gets old. And this verse of the Iśa Upaniṣad is saying He is pure, He is the purest, just like the sun. The sun is always considered pure, do you know that? Even if the sun is shining over stool and urine, the sun does not get contaminated. So Kṛṣṇa is pavitram. Pavitram means pure. In Bhāgavad-gītā, Arjuna told Kṛṣṇa, param brahma param dhamma param vittama paramam bahvam. My dear Lord, You are the purest of all entities. There is no one more pure than You. Now when you understand that God is pure, that Bhoga is pure, and you understand that you are impure, then you automatically understand that to understand the pure, you also have to become pure. So how do you become pure? You become pure through the execution of devotional practices. That Kṛṣṇa is pure in all situations. Not that at one time Kṛṣṇa was— is pure, then when He comes to the earth He becomes impure, and when He goes back again to a spiritual world, He again becomes pure. This is important to understand because there are certain so-called transcendentalists who maintain that when Kṛṣṇa comes to this earth planet, He becomes like you and me. Just like there are certain transcendentalists in India known as the Āyā-samādīs. They say they don't accept that Kṛṣṇa, when He appears, He appears in His transcendental form. They think that just like you and I make mistakes, when Kṛṣṇa comes to this world, His form is material. But this is not supported in the Vedas. So in the Vedic scriptures, when it is stated that the Lord is formless, what it means is that God's form is not like yours or mine. You people may know that there is God, you may know that God is great, but unless you know how great God is, you will not know how you must surrender to Him. That is why again and again the Vedas are pointing out the different qualities of God. In the other scriptures you have a one-line statement, "God is great," but in Vedas you have complete information of why God is great. So we must know why God is great, and then we will be inspired to surrender to Him more easily. Just like, for example, if I bring a friend of mine with me to your program today, I say, "This man is the son— is this my friend from India?" You will say, "Okay, Hare Kṛṣṇa." But if I tell you, "Here is my friend from India. He is the son of the Prime Minister of India." and he's the son of a millionaire and he is so-and-so, he has so much rich, so many factories, then you will deal with him differently, isn't it? So you may have a friend, you might just think he's ordinary, but then when you find out he's the son of the President of the Soviet Union or some big man, then you deal with him differently. So similarly, when you understand the transcendental qualities of Kṛṣṇa, You will deal with Kṛṣṇa differently. So God is formless in the sense His form is not like yours and my form. When you and I open our mouth when we go to the doctor, the doctor puts a spoon inside our mouth, and now because our mouth inside is so filthy, he then throws the spoon away. But when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth, what does His mother see? The whole universe in the son's mouth. You know that story how Kṛṣṇa showed the whole— His mother told Kṛṣṇa, "Were you eating some mud?" The son said, "No, my friends are just complaining because they don't like me." So mother said, "Okay, I don't believe you. Show me, open your mouth." So Kṛṣṇa said, "Ahh." And when He opened His mouth, what did the mother see? The whole universe. Once Kṛṣṇa and Balarama have gone with their cows and calves in the grazing field. Those of you who have been to India may have seen that even now near Vrindavan, all the cowherd boys in that area, they take their cows for grazing in the open field. So Brahmājī wanted to test who is this boy Kṛṣṇa. Everybody thinks he is God. Let me see who he is. So Brahmājī kidnapped all the cowherd boys, the cows, and the calves. So when Kṛṣṇa and Bālaṁ came back from their picnic, they saw, "Oh! All the cows are gone, all the calves are gone." And so Kṛṣṇa said, "Now what will happen when we go back to our homes? The mothers will say, 'Where is my son? Where are cows and calves?' So what will I say?" So Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself into unlimited cows and cows and cowherd boyfriends. So when Kṛṣṇa went back, when all the boys went back to their homes, the mothers were even more attached to their sons. And when the cows, cows means the son of the cow, the child of the cow, when the cows went back to their homes, the mother cows were licking, were patting their, were with their children even more. Because Kṛṣṇa had expanded himself now, the mother's attachment was even greater. So can you and I expand ourselves into unlimited cows, calves and all?

No.

When Brahmā-jī saw what Kṛṣṇa had done, then he realized that Kṛṣṇa is not an ordinary person. He is really the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Vedic scriptures described Him, describe Him as sat-cit-ananda-vigraha, sat-cit-ananda. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge. And ananda means full of bliss. So Lord is full, He is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. And you and I are the opposite. Our body is not eternal. Our soul is eternal, but not our body. Kṛṣṇa is full of knowledge and we are full of ignorance. And Kṛṣṇa is full of bliss and we are full of anxiety. When you drink your vodka, you may get some bliss, but that is very short term. So the Lord's body is transcendental, which is being stated over here. Another characteristic of God is with any one part of His body He can do the work of any other part. Anani yasa sakalandhavritimanti. With any one part of His body He can do the work of any other part. This means that He can create just by desire. The Lord says "Let there be creation," and the creation takes place. Suppose you and I say, "Let there be chapatis." Will the chapatis manifest themselves?

So with any one part of His body, He can do the work of any other part. For you and I to eat, we have to put the food in the mouth. But Kṛṣṇa can eat with His hands. Just like the non-devotees can never understand, "What are these Hare Kṛṣṇas talking by prasāda?" What is prasāda? We say, "Prasāda is food offered to God." We say prasad is food mixed with the saliva of Bhoga. They say, "You must be crazy. How can you offer anything to God? Where is that God?" We say that God is there in the archa-vigraha mūrti form. They say, "Mūrti? That is just a statue made of marble or metal or wood. You people must be fools. You are brainwashed." How can— Okay, even if he is God, okay, tell me, how can God eat?

So they are trying to understand God with the material senses. Try to understand God with the material senses, you will never succeed.

Once Narada Muni was going back to the spiritual world after doing his preaching job on this planet.

So on the way, Narada Muni, he met one Brahmin who was very expert in the scriptures. And the Brahmin told him, "Please find out from the Lord, how much longer will I have to suffer in the material world?" Little later he met a cobbler. Cobbler is one who fixes up shoes.

He also said, "Please find out how much longer will I have to suffer in the material world." So Narada Muni, after giving his report to the Lord, he inquired from the Lord the answers to the questions of the brahman and the cobbler. The Lord said, "Tell the brahman he will have to take many, many more births in the material world." and tell the cobbler he will come back to me after this life. So when Nārada Muni told the Brahman that the Lord said he will have to take many, many more births, he said, "Impossible! I read the Shāstras day and night and I will have to take many more births?

I don't believe you went to the Lord." So the Lord has also told Nārada Muni that if they were asking what was I doing when you asked me this question, 'Tell them I was passing an elephant through the eye of a needle.' So just like when somebody comes from your hometown and somebody says, 'I saw your father in your house,' then don't you ask him, 'What was my father doing? What was my mother doing?' when you went to see him. So the Brahmin wanted to know.

The Brahmin was doubtful. He did not believe that Narada Muni had gone to the Lord.

So he wanted to double-check whether Narada Muni was bluffing him or not. So he said, "Okay, tell me, what was the Lord doing when you were talking to him about me?" He said, "He was passing an elephant through the eye of a needle." And the Brahman said, "I knew you were bluffing.

How can anyone pass an elephant through the eye of a needle?" So the Brahman did not believe that the Lord was passing an elephant through the eye of a needle. So the Brahman told the Lord, "I told you it is not possible. How can you pass an elephant through the eye of a needle?" Then the, then the Nārada Muni went to the cobbler. So when the cobbler heard that he would go back to Godhead in this life, he was very happy and he jumped up in ecstasy. And when the cobbler heard that the Lord was passing an elephant through the eye of a needle, he was even more happy. So Nārada Muni wanted to test the cobbler's faith. He said, "You really believe that the Lord can— anyone can pass an elephant through the eye of a needle?" So he said, "Why not? This huge banyan tree under which we are sitting, this was previously in a small seed. So if the Lord can put a huge banyan tree in a small seed, can He not pass an elephant through the eye of a needle?" So I gave you this story to show how one person may think God is limited. But another will understand His unlimited nature. So He can eat with His eyes. When the devotee places prasadam at His feet and says, and offers it and says, "My dear Lord, please accept this prasadam." Because then when you take the plate out, the plate is exactly the same. And we say, "Oh, this is prasadam." So what has happened? The Lord has eaten through His eyes and ears. So in the purport of this verse, Prabhupāda talks at great length about the archa-vigraha form of the Lord. Archa-vigraha. Vigraha means form. Archa means Lord. So the form of the Lord is not different from the Lord. The archa-vigraha form of the Lord descends upon the request of the bona fide ācārya, the holy teachers, and it is the same as the original form of the Lord. Just like Prabhupāda used to give an example, You post a letter in the main post office, in the key general post office, or in the post box in every corner. The letter will reach its destination. So similarly, when you worship Gauṇītā Deities, Jagannātha, Bādhā-Bāla Rāma, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, if the Deities are properly installed by the bona fide ācārya, then these Deities are non-different from Boga, from Kṛṣṇa. So the Ācārya-vigraha form is not different from the Lord. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, there's a very nice story of Sakshi Gopal to support this, this statement. That the Ācārya-vigraha is not different from the Lord. You want to hear the story? Once there were two brahmins. Both of them were real brahmins, huh? Once there were two brahmins and they were going on a pilgrimage. Just like your Russian devotees love to travel from one republic to another, these brahmins were going to different places of pilgrimage. One was an old brahmin, the other was a young brahmin. One was from a very aristocratic family, the other was from a poor family. But both were brahmins. Brahmin means one who is attached to Kṛṣṇa, not one who is attached to money-making. And sense enjoyment. So the young Brahmin, he had helped the old Brahmin in visiting the different places of pilgrimage. In India you have so many places of pilgrimage: Vrindavan, Mathura, Dwarka, Haridwar, Rishikesh, Badrinath, Mayapur. India is full of places of pilgrimage. So the old Brahmin was from a rich family. He was feeling very obliged to this young Brahmin. He told the young Brahmin, "You have done so much for me. Without you, I could have never visited all these places. I want to do something to repay my debt to you. I will give you my daughter in marriage." The young Brahmin said, "You are an aristocratic man. I am a poor man. How will you give your daughter in marriage to me?" In India, it's, uh, people are very class conscious. The rich man will not marry his daughter to a poor man, and so on. So the young man told the old man, "You want to marry your daughter with me? I, poor man, I have no aristocratic family background, and you are from such an aristocratic background. Your family relatives will never agree to let you marry me, let you marry your daughter." The old man said, "I give you my word the marriage will definitely take place." The young Brahman said, "You know the story of Rukmini? Rukmini's father wanted Rukmini to be married to Kṛṣṇa, but Rukmini's brother Rukma said, 'No, no, no, I will not marry Rukmini to Kṛṣṇa. I'll marry her to Śiṣupala.'" So the young Brahman said, Your son will do the same thing. You will say marry her to me, but your son will say, 'No, no, no, marry him to some rich man.' So the young Brahmin said, 'Okay, since you are so keen to marry your daughter to me, you please give me this promise in front of the mūrti of Gopāla. Then you will never be able to change it later.' So the old man promised in front of the Deity of Gopāla. So when the old man went to his house, And he told his son and everyone what had happened. The son-in-law was very angry. The wife of the old man said, "If you give away my daughter in marriage to that poor Brahmin, I will commit suicide." And the son of the old man was an atheist. He said, "You can tell everyone that this young boy forced you to make this promise and you never made this promise." So the young Brahmin came to this rich Brahmin's house and said, "You promised your daughter in marriage, so now here I am, I'm ready for marriage." But the family members of this rich man said, "Get out, you thief! You forced our father to give this promise by force," and they beat him up with a stick. So the young Brahmin was feeling very sad that his whole reputation has been ruined. So he called the meeting of the whole village, and he told the village that this old man had promised him in front of the Deity of Gopal to give his daughter in marriage, And now he's rejecting it. So the whole village, so all the villagers, they went in a group to the old man's house. They said, "Why are you not honoring your promise? In front of Kṛṣṇa you gave this promise you'll give your daughter in marriage. And now you're not doing it. Why you're not doing like that?" So the old man, because his wife had threatened she would commit suicide, His brother has also threatened, had told him to lie. So the old man in front of the whole village says, "I never promised this young Brahmin that I'll give my daughter in marriage." And the old man's son said, "This rascal Brahmin, he gave my father some drugs on the way and he robbed him of all his money. Now he wants to marry my sister? No!" All these villagers that had come with the young Brahmin to help him, they got completely confused. They said, "Oh, this young Brahmin looks like a crook." So, it was a question of the young Brahmin's reputation. So, the young Brahmin, he ran to the Deity of Gopal. Why? Because the old man and his son had agreed that if this young Brahmin could find any witness to the promise the old man made, then they would honor that promise. So the young Brahmin ran to the Deity of Gopal. He offered his janda bāsa and he said, "My dear Lord, I'm your devotee. Now my whole reputation is at stake." He said, "Please save my reputation. You were witness when the old man promised his daughter in marriage to me, isn't it? Now the whole village is accusing me of being a thief and they're thinking that I forced the old man to promise his daughter in marriage." 'So you please come and testify and save my honour. Please come to the village and tell the people that this old man promised me.' So the Lord said, 'My dear Brahman, I cannot walk. How will I come to your village? I'm just a Deity. I cannot walk.' But the Brahman said, 'My dear Lord, if you can talk, you can also walk.' And then to protect the honour of his Brahman devotee, Krishna agreed to walk and come become a witness. Krishna said, "You walk ahead and I will walk behind you, and from my ankle bells there will be noise. But the moment you look back, I will stop walking." So the Brahman led the Deity of Krishna to his village. Then he stopped hearing the noise from the ankle bells. He just looked back, and there the Deity of Gopal stopped. Because Gopal had come to his village. Then the Brahman went and called the whole villagers and they saw, yes, this Brahman was truthful and this Didi Gopal testified that the old Brahman had given promise that he was going to give his daughter in marriage to the young Brahman. And then the old Brahman, he apologized to the young Brahman. He said, because of pressure from my wife and prasad, I had told a lie that I did not promise, but I did promise. So You like the story? This is from the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So the more— this story has two morals, two points to meditate on. One is that the Deity of Kṛṣṇa is not different from Kṛṣṇa. If you, if you think here is a Deity made of statue, iron or wood, then it will always remain a statue to you. But if you say here is God with full senses, then this God will even speak to you and talk to you. So the Brahman, he had full faith in the potency of the Deity. Therefore this Deity agreed to speak and walk. And the other moral is Kṛṣṇa protects His devotees. Kaunteya padi-dāne hi nāma-bhakta paṇaśruti. My devotee will never perish. So this young Brahman's reputation was at stake.

He had no alternative.

But he begged Kṛṣṇa for help. And when he came to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa saved his reputation by personally going as a witness. Lord is so kind to His devotees, to His priyādhāne that He'll even go and walk. And He even agrees to become the chariot driver. Just like Kṛṣṇa, He drove the chariot of Arjuna on the Battle of Kurukṣetra. The Lord even carried the slippers of His father Nanda Maharaj on His head, isn't it? So this verse of the Śrī Īśopaniṣad is pointing out at the supreme omnipotent position of God, Bhoga. And this verse is pointing out how great God is. Paribhuḥ. Paribhuḥ is a Sanskrit word used in this verse which means He is the greatest of all. No one is greater than or equal to Him. Other living entities who ask the Lord for favors, described as just like beggars. So God is the greatest, and once you understand through the Vedic scriptures how great God is, then realizing how subordinate you are, you surrender to that great person. This verse is also stating how the Lord is self-sufficient. This has been covered in the very first verse of this chapter where it says Om punam adah punam idam. The Lord is complete in all respects, and because the Lord is complete, his creation is also complete. Sri Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says that the Lord is śuddham. Śuddham means antiseptic. Just like you put antiseptic ointment so that your wound may not get more severe. And apāpadvīdham, that is completely uncontaminated. God is not contaminated in any situation. So Kṛṣṇa says, "Four types of people surrender unto Me and four types of people don't surrender to Me." Chaturvidābājāntimam ājana-rājana-rājana arṣodhikāṣur arṣati jñāniṣa bhārdhar-sabha. The four types of people who surrender to Bhoga are: one is one who is inquisitive, the other is the genuine seeker of knowledge, next is one who is inquisitive, and the fourth is one who wants money. Four types of people Krishna says surrender to Him. So Krishna says, whatever you want, come to Me, don't go anywhere else. So I'm sure everybody falls in this category of one of the four. So I'll repeat, four types of people surrender to Krishna: one is who's in distress, the other is who wants money. And the third is who is inquisitive. And the fourth is the genuine seeker of knowledge. He knows Kṛṣṇa is supreme, so he approaches Kṛṣṇa. And the four types of people who don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa: na mām duṣyakunam mūraḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ māyāya partha-jñānaḥ aśrama-bhāvanḥ aśritahā. So Kṛṣṇa says four types of people surrender to Me and four types of people do not surrender to Me. The four types of people who don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa are the following. Na mam duṣkṛtṇa-mūra. Duṣkṛtṇa means miscreant. The one is mūra. Mūra means the hard-working entity who works like hard like an ass, but he has no time for Self-realization. Just like you may invite many of your friends to come and serve Kṛṣṇa, but what do they say? "No time, very busy." They have no interest in Slo-Āgitya Kṛṣṇa. No, he is serving Kṛṣṇa. Then there is narādhama. Narādhama means that these people may have very important position in society, like he may be president, prime minister, king, but when it comes to self-realization, no interest. And then, and these narādhamas, people in society respect them. They are occupying very respectful positions in society, but they have no attachment to Kṛṣṇa. Then mayāyā-paṣṭa-jñāna. Mayāyā-paṣṭa-jñāna means those who are supposedly very, very learned. They have many degrees, etc., but they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And lastly, aśūraṁ bhāvan aśṛtāḥ. Those are openly atheists who openly deny the existence of God. So 4 types of people surrender to Bhoga, 4 types of people don't surrender to Bhoga. We may surrender to Bhoga due to whatever material reasons, but Bhoga is so purifying that eventually we get purified. He is a paapa-vidham, that is, Kṛṣṇa can never be touched by sin. We may approach the Lord with whatever motive we have, but devotional service is so purifying that you get purified, and then those material desires go away. Just like in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there's a story of Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Maharaj was the son of a very famous king, King Uttanapada. But his wife— his father had many wives. These days you are not allowed to have many wives, but in the Vedic days the Kshatriya kings were allowed to have many wives. They can't even maintain one wife these days, but the Vedic concept was different where the Kshatriya king maintained all his wives in royal style. So Dhruva Maharaj one day was trying to sit on his father's lap. His mother, his stepmother was, his stepmother happened to be a favorite queen of the king. So his stepmother said, "You cannot sit on your father's lap because you have not taken your birth from my womb." So Dhuramad was a young boy of 5 years old. He was very disturbed. He went crying to his real mother and he told his real mother that his stepmother stopped him from sitting on his father's lap and said, "Because I have not taken my birth from her womb." Is there anybody who can help me? Druva Maharaj had Kshatriya blood in him. So Kshatriya blood is a little proud. So when he went to his mother, his mother said, my dear son, I cannot help you because your father doesn't like me. But I know somebody who can help you. That is God, Bhoga. So Druva Maharaj said, where can I find that Bhoga? She said, I have heard from the great Sages that Bhoga can be found in the forest. So then Dhruva Maharaj went to the forest. While he was going to the forest, on the way he met Narada Muni. Narada Muni told him, "You are a fool. Your stepmother was just joking with you. You are a young boy of 5 years old. Go back home. Don't go to the forest." But Dhruva Maharaj said, "No, I must find Bhoga. You don't stop me." Actually Narada Muni was testing. How sincere is Dhruva Maharaja's determination to find God. Similarly, when we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and we begin to chant our rounds and associate with devotees, Kṛṣṇa will test us like Narada Muni was testing Dhruva. How will Kṛṣṇa test us? By Maya telling us, "Oh, this chanting is not so important. You have plenty of time left in your life. You don't have to rush into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can chant one round a day for a few years and slowly, slowly make advancement. So that is Kṛṣṇa testing us how sincere we are. So Nādamuni told Dhruva, "Now don't go." But Dhruva said, "No, no, no. I must go to the forest and find God." So Nādamuni then gave Dhruva the mantra: Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya. This mantra then we chant before every time we give a class. So Dhruva Manaja went to the forest Anybody knows the name of the forest? The name of the forest is Madhuvan. It is near Vrindavan. I have been there few times. I even went to the place where Druva Maharaj performed those charities. We have a temple, there's a temple there. So Druva Maharaj went to the forest. He started chanting this mantra: Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya. And with the sand and water, He made a form of the Lord so he can meditate on the form of the Lord. In the first month of his austerity, Dhruva Maharaj was eating once every 3 days. You and I must eat once 3 times a day, but Dhruva Maharaj was eating once in 3 days. And what was he eating? He wasn't eating pizzas and cheesecakes. He was eating fruits and berries in the forest that are meant for monkeys. In the second month of his austerity, He was drinking water, but only once every 6 days. Oh, he stopped eating. He was only taking water. I'm sorry. In the first month of his austerity, he was eating dry grass every third day. And in the second month of his austerity, he was eating fruits and berries that were meant for monkeys and other animals. And in the third month of his austerity, he even stopped eating the fruits and berries. He was only drinking water. And drinking water once every 9 days. Can you, can you live by drinking water once every 9 days? So in the 4th month of his austerity, Jhūvanmārāja even stopped drinking water. He started inhaling his breath once every 12 days. You and I take our breath every second, but he was doing it once every 12 days. And in the 5th month of his austerity, Jhūvanmārāja was standing on one leg like a column. And he had obtained so much power by his austerity that his whole world, earth, was shaking by his strength. So Kṛṣṇa was so pleased by this young boy, 5 years old, by his austerities, that Kṛṣṇa agreed to— Kṛṣṇa appeared in front of him. Kṛṣṇa said, "Āroḍa, I am very pleased by your austerities." 'Please tell me, what do you want?' Dhruva said, 'I was looking for broken, for broken cut glass, but now I found a diamond. There's nothing more I want,' because he got so much ecstasy in seeing the form of the Lord. So Dhruva said, 'My dear Lord, if You want to bless me, please bless me so that I may always be in the association of devotees serving You.' So Of course, then Kṛṣṇa gave Dhruva a Dhruvaloka planet to rule. That Dhruva ruled for 36,000 years. So we gave the story of Dhruva Mahārāja to indicate the point that we made earlier, which is: We may come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness with some motives, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so purifying that once you get purified, then you understand your real business, which is pure devotional service. So We will stop here. I think we have had a very lengthy discussion today in response to this verse which describes the greatness of God by describing His transcendental qualities and that He is the greatest of all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

You said that Kṛṣṇa was pleased with austerity. And why does Kṛṣṇa use are not usually pleased with austerity. What is the reason?

Austerity is the weapon through which we can purchase Kṛṣṇa. Astya is the price that you have to pay for loving Kṛṣṇa. Because austerity means no sense enjoyment. And without sense enjoyment you can't understand Kṛṣṇa. You cannot have this philosophy of eat, drink and be merry and also have Kṛṣṇa.

Yes, the question is, in which form Jīvā falls You know, after falling from the spiritual world, which form jīva takes usually? And about the circle of 8,200,000 spices. Spices, yeah. There is a jīva, you know, circle.

So the jīva falls down in the form of rainwater. And what's the question about 8,400,000?

In which form does a living entity, you know, gets karma?

In the human form. In the other forms you don't get karma. Just like a child, a child when he commits a crime, they don't send him to jail. But an adult is sent to jail.

Did such cases take place when some people who wanted money God's mercy, by Kṛṣṇa's mercy?

Good question.

If I tell you something, you may, you may not, you may be surprised. Kṛṣṇa, unless He makes, if a person is sincere, then Kṛṣṇa may give you money if He knows that you will not misuse it. But if Kṛṣṇa sees that if I give this devotee money, that devotee will fall in māyā, then He won't give you money. Kṛṣṇa generally keeps His devotees a little poor.

Why, if Kṛṣṇa likes poor man, He married on the queens, many queens.

Kṛṣṇa was rich. He is the richest of all. But you and I, when we get our riches, we get affected by the riches. When you and I become bhagat, we get affected by māyā.

Why didn't he marry a poor lady to make her rich?

Kṛṣṇa was a king, so king can only marry queens. And at that time there were no poor ladies, everybody was rich. Poverty, poverty has only started since people started forgetting God. When everyone was remembering Bhagavan, there was no poverty. Everybody used to eat of gold and silver plates. All the ladies were wearing pure jewelry. Not artificial jewelry like today. Today people eat off paper plates, but they used to eat off gold plates. And all the ladies used to wear pure silk saris, not imitation silk. So that was real rich. These are not storybook descriptions. These are real descriptions. Just like when you are in school, you read these storybooks. Once upon a time, there was a king who was very famous. So these are not once upon a time stories. These are real stories.

How to get rid of material attachment, which, you know, makes some troubles to our spiritual life?

Well, if you follow the Kṛṣṇa conscious process of śrīla-nāma-kīrtanām, then you should be able to free yourself from material attachment. But if you don't follow the process, then you will not be able to give up. Just like a diseased person, he has to take the medicine, otherwise he cannot get himself, get free from the disease. So material attachment means disease. And the attachment is what? To this body. My body, the extensions of my body, and my senses. Yesterday I had discussed at great length how the animals, when they engage in sense enjoyment, they meet their death. So we need spiritual strength to overcome the germs of sense desire. Just like when a man is weak, he catches disease very fast. But when the body is healthy, then you get— don't get disease so fast. Fast, isn't it? So we have to become spiritually healthy.

The question is, before he joined into Krishna consciousness, he performed some austerities. He ate even once a day and only not cooked food. But after joining into Krishna consciousness, she was so pleased with taste of prasad and he began to eat too much. And now some devotees devotees, you know, say that he is a little bit in maya and, you know, so. And he is asking, is it true? Is it good to eat marshmallow or not?

You want to become like Druva Maharaja? Well, we may not see you alive after a few weeks then. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us this simple process of chanting, dancing, and feasting. So my advice to you— what's your name?

Andre.

Andre.

So my advice to you, Andre, is eat as much Kṛṣṇa prasāda as you want, but don't overeat. Because if you overeat, you may get diseased, and then you will have indigestion. There is no need of artificial austerity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In this part of the world, if you can follow the four regulative principles and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that austerity is good enough for Kali-yuga. More questions? Yes, Christ and Krishna.

Yeah, is there any connection?

Yes, there, yes, there is connection.

The second question, can the person—

let me answer what the connection is first. The name Christos is coming from the name Krishna. In the Aquarian Gospel, we also have stories how Lord Jesus Christ had got— had gone to Jagannath Puri temple for His spiritual training. He was serving in the Jagannāth Puri temple, Lord Jesus Christ.

And can the person change his belief from Christian belief to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

What's the question?

Can the Christian become Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Okay, actually your question is very interesting and I will give a reply that will be of interest to everyone. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the natural position of the living entity, which is to serve God. Real religion means to love God and to give up desire for sense enjoyment. So it does not matter whether you are Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jew. That is immaterial. The important thing is to develop love of God. When you are sick, you don't care whether your doctor is Jew or Hindu or Muslim. You just want the disease to be cured. When you have fire in the house, You just telephone the fire brigade and say, "Come on, come quickly and put the fire off." You don't say, "Please send only Jewish firemen to put the fire off." So similarly, religion means to develop love of God. And by whichever process you can develop love of God and give up your so-called love for Maya, that process you should accept. If you are suffering from a disease and you are having pain and you go to one doctor every week and the doctor cannot cure you, Does that mean you will not go to a better doctor who can cure your disease?

Is there any big differences between, you know, the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ and Krishna's teachings?

Good question. So I will discuss this now, Christianity and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All of you want to hear the points of similarity between Christianity and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there are many points of similarity between Christianity and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Consciousness.

Because as I said earlier, Lord Jesus Christ, he had obtained his training in God consciousness at the Jagannātha Puri Temple in India. There are still many Christians who believe that Lord Jesus Christ left his body in Kashmir. This is all explained in the Aquarian Gospel which Prabhupāda has quoted many times. One point is the Bible also states that God is a person. And the Vedas also establish that Bhoga is a person. Bible says, "Man is made in God's image." So God also has an image which is like ours, or our image is like that of God. But as I explained in the lecture today, there's still a difference. He is always devyam and we are the opposite. So Christians, they believe in personal worship, not impersonal worship. And the Vedas also establish God is a person. Then Lord Jesus Christ said, "What shall I do if thou gainest the whole world but suffer the loss of your eternal soul?" What will you do if you may become the richest man in the world, but if you lose your Ātmā soul, then you gain nothing. So this verse of the Bible is establishing two things. One point it establishes that the soul is eternal. Just like the Gītā says, na jāyate mṛyate vākṛdaḥ caṇḍaḥ For the soul, there's never birth nor death. So Bible says soul is eternal. Gita says soul is eternal. The Bible talks about what is the value if you may get all the material riches, if you leave, if you misuse the human life. So this is exactly what the Vedas talk about. The Bible talks about heaven and hell. In other words, by talking about heaven and hell, the Bible is talking about reward and punishment based on karma. Based on karma, we will go up or down. So the Vedas— this concept is clearly borrowed from the Vedas, which also established that human form of life must be used for the right type of karma. So the question of reward and punishment is common in both Bible and in the Vedic scriptures. Then the Bible says, thou shalt not kill, no killing. And Gita says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. You can offer me a fruit or vegetable, glass of water with love, and I will accept it. In the Bible, there are so many statements supporting vegetarian diet, but the modern-day Christians, they don't want to accept it because they're very attached to their tongues, and their tongue is very attached to meat. And now they have the theory that animals don't have a soul. How can you say animals need dusha? The animal eats, sleeps, defends, and mates just like us. So to say the animals need Dushe is simply foolishness. So in Bible also there is emphasis on celibacy. The Christians believe in priests being celibate and nuns being celibate. I don't know about the Russian Orthodox Church, but at least the Christians, the Christians from Vatican, Italy, they don't marry the priests. In other words, all that I am saying is Christianity talks about the priests and the nuns who are engaged in full-time preaching about God to be celibates. The Bible is against contraception and other artificial means of birth control. This means that sex life should be used only for procreation. This is also, also the Vedic viewpoint. Bible says thou shall always chant the names of the Lord. So that is exactly what the Vedas say. Bhagavad Gita says, satatam katha yantamam. So Bible acknowledges The name of God to be non-different from God, and that is exactly what the Vedas say. So by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll become a better Christian. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll become a better Muslim. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll become a better Jew. Jesus Christ was a real Son of God, so He did not bluff the people. He clearly said, "I'm Son of God." He never said He's the Father, but Kṛṣṇa always said He's the Father.

In Asīṣapenśādhana, Sīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said that we should meditate on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa with, you know, symbols of thunderbolt, at least 4 symbols. And what is the meaning of these 4 symbols, for example?

These 4 symbols indicate that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In other words, when Kṛṣṇa is born, He is born with these symbols at His feet. Even when Lord Caitanya was born, these symbols were there on His footprints. Yes, all these symbols are to indicate Kṛṣṇa's supreme position. Just like a general wears medals, so Kṛṣṇa uses the club to kill the demons. Kṛṣṇa looks like— His feet are like the lotus flower. Kṛṣṇa uses a disc to take care of the demons. And the conch is a transcendental equipment signifying victory. Just like before the Battle of Kurukṣetra started, Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa blew their conch and the conch made such powerful noise that Dhṛtarāṣṭra knew that he was going to lose the battle.

Why did Kṛṣṇa kill his enemy, not cure?

Kṛṣṇa by His killing, He is curing the enemy. Because anybody who is killed by Kṛṣṇa gets liberation. A surgeon when he cuts you to do an operation, he's doing the operation for the benefit of the patient. But a criminal when he murders you or stabs you, He does it for a different purpose. Lama Lama Ale Ale.