A ‘Bored Ape’ That Turned My Life Around Overnight | Swickie

Foreign.

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Bits and Bytes. Today we have a guest with us who is, I would say, a pro in the world of NFTs. You may know her as. How about you introduce yourself to our audience?

Sure. I'm swicky and I am the owner of a bored ape. Her name is Kiki and she's doing a lot of things now as her own personality. But I'm mostly just an NFT collector who joined Twitter back in March and I started with Topshot and I kind of just fell into the NFT world and made a lot of friends.

Awesome. And so let's take a little step back here. Then maybe some of our audience might not be super familiar, you know, with what NFTs are. So could you maybe explain to them what is an nft?

This is going to be fun. So an NFT is a digital asset and it represents like a piece of art or music or games or videos. NFT stands for non Fungible token. It means that non fungible means pretty much that it cannot be replaced by something else. So, for example, Bitcoin is a fungible token because it's equal to a bitcoin, right? So it's more like a one of a kind trading card, kind of like top shot. So if you think of it in terms of token, each token would have its own number and you can trade it online, you can buy it online, and typically you trade it with cryptocurrency. And there are different, different platforms that you can use to do that.

I kind of relate it to, like, especially, I think gamers have an easier time understanding because we're buying skins, we're buying different things.

Avatars, weapons, avatar.

Yeah, all that kind of stuff. I think it's very similar, but the difference is, is like we can buy as many skins as we want, right? Like if we're playing Counter Strike or Valorant or whatever, there's no limit to how many the game developers print, whereas with NFTs there should be a cap. So that's kind of how I relate it for my gamer friends. Of course, for those of you listening that aren't gamers either, maybe that's not all that helpful. And hopefully throughout this whole episode we're going to try and kind of wrap our minds around this kind of whole concept of digital goods. And I think you used a lot of different terms in there that we're going to break through, like top shot, bored apes. These are things that hopefully we're going to all explore in this episode.

So, yeah, how about, would you like to walk us through then? Your first process of purchasing NFT was the idea of buying a virtual good kind of like really foreign to you at first. Like, did you just kind of do it out of, like, interest or for fun? Like, how did you kind of get into the notion of like, hey, let's try this out, let's buy an nft.

Yeah. So Top Shot, which is an NBA trading nft, is a gateway drug. I call it, like we all call it that because it's just a really simple way for people to be introduced to NFTs. So the way that it started for me was a couple of friends just asked me, you know, if I was interested in. In getting in a queue line, which is a place that you go to take your chances on whether or not you'll land an nft, right? So for Top Shot, I landed in the queue and I had a number. And so when my number hit, I was able to buy it. Well, not everybody is able to buy it because you probably much are like standing in line online. So then when I got the nft, the Top Shot nft, I just was like, really excited because I had hit a Bradley Beal low serial number and I think I was hooked after that. After that, I decided to start collecting and kind of build up my collection in a way. Mostly moments that I really liked from players that I liked and teams that I liked. But it was really great because I didn't have to deal with the secondary things. Like when you deal with NFTs, you have a wallet and then you have the platform. And I feel like with Topshot, it was just very simple. You choose your NFT and then you pay for it. You could pay for it with your card. You didn't have to go the extra step of crypto. And so that kind of eased me into it because they also work off of dapper dappers. You know, you could like refill your dapper and then it's just like the wallet within Top Shot. So it just like introduced me to a lot of really basic ideas about NFTs and how to use crypto even. Because before that I had invested, but I hadn't really, like, you know, used it necessarily.

Yeah, that was going to be. My question is, like, before, like, Top Shot, were you like, like I was describing earlier, like, were you buying game skins on. On different games? Were you collecting basketball cards or BAS cards or whatever? Or were you already kind of deep into the. Deep into the crypto world?

No, I had just invested Veracity Doge, just different things, but not in a gaming or NFT environment. So I play my Nintendo Switch a lot and I play Breath of the Wild, but I don't connect or anything. I just play the game straight as it is. So it is like a way for people to kind of like meld those two together. And I was never really like a trading card kid or any of that. Like I didn't have that around, my cousins did. So I watched them do it. But that wasn't something that was like regular in my life. So this whole arena is like pretty much new for me.

You mean you didn't have a basketball shoe collection?

No, I didn't. I don't even think I got like really nice shoes like that till I was a lot older. So I was jealous of like my cousins and all my friends.

So then like walk me through like when you were buying your first pack and like I can't remember who you said kind of told you to buy it because. Because I remember very vividly my first pack experience. Like I was 100% sure, like this $15 or $10 or whatever the pack was. Like, I'm never seeing that money again. Like, you know, this is me because I work in tech and because I work with startups and I love basketball. Like I am literally giving these dapper guys my money never to see it again. Right. Like, did you have like similar sentiment?

Yeah, I mean I went into this thinking, I did not think actually I didn't even know that they're like, I didn't put it together that there was like a flipping market for this. I just went straight into it. Like, I love the NBA and I love, you know, this is like a new thing. It was like the end of COVID I wanted to try something new. So for me it was more like a collectors journey, you know. And then slowly like I started realizing like, oh, there's a lot more to this.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think I had a very similar experience. I think, I think because I. The adapter team, full disclosure, is in Vancouver where you know, Jean and I are based. Like I had some insight into like what they were doing with Cryptos kitties, but it always kind of sounded, I don't want to use the word stupid, but I kind of just did like it didn't make any sense to me, right? So this was like, okay, maybe if I buy this at least like I know the names like LeBron James or whoever, at least I get some fandom thing, right? And I can say I was there when I first. When I bought this weird thing that never panned out or whatever, right. So that was kind of my mentality. And I'd say a lot of people that were first on Snapshot, it was kind of like that, right? The basketball part drew them in. Not so much what we're going to talk about in a bit, which is like, the profit, the investment, the. The crazy market that has kind of shaped since then. But it was. It was really like, no different to me thinking, like, you know, trading cards are 7,8 bucks Canadian a pack. I was spending $15 on a top shot pack. There's no difference, right, Other than I don't have to hoard it. So. So that. That was kind of what. What I was about. So, so then. Then you, you know, you kind of hit on. On a rare basketball card for. For the sake of this conversation that I'm going to talk about what, what. What did a snowball or click for you from that point that, hey, like this, this. This YouTube video is, as the haters like to call it, is worth something.

Yeah.

I mean, for me, like, it was an adrenaline rush to be like, wow, like, I got a really low cereal, you know. But then more than that, I just decided, like, well, from now on, I'm not gonna buy single moments. I'm just gonna do all pack drops. And I created, you know, I've been on Twitter for forever, but I created a separate Twitter just so that I could do, like, giveaways and, like, not annoy all my friends, you know, on my regular social media. And then I started kind of, like connecting and making friendships in the community. And then pretty soon I started reading, like, the strategies and the things behind why people buy which moments and why, you know, all these things. And I just kind of like, immersed myself in that world. And then I wish I had read sooner about, like, what strategies and what things to do to begin collecting, but I feel like I did pretty well because I have zero trade tickets. I don't know, maybe that's good. We'll talk about that later. But I just feel like, you know, it became a thing where, like, I wanted to roll the dice every time and just see, like, what I could get out of it. And it was like, you know, nine bucks a pop. It's not like you're spending $500 for it, you know. So I just kind of started building a nice collection. And then I decided, hey, like, I'm going to start finishing sets. I'm going to start, like, building teams. I'm Going to start doing this, that the other.

And then you were putting. Were you at this time? Feel free not to answer. Were you putting in this time, like, your crypto, or was it like real money straight off a credit card? Like, what was your kind of mindset?

So at first, I didn't even have a coinbase. I had to create, you know, all of my, like, apps and identities and all of that, but I put in my own money. I think I started with, like, I want to say, like, 300 bucks. I started with 300 bucks, and I don't. I think I. Like, I did put more money in as I went along, but it just was, like, gradual. It wasn't all at once. So I think a month later I became like a top 8% account, and then two weeks after that, like a 5% account, and then a couple weeks after that. And so then when I was looking at my spend in relation to my account percentage, like, where I fell on that, it was pretty good considering the amount of money that I spent. So then after that, it just became a game, like, well, how much more can I get out of this?

How did you know? I know the answer, but for listeners, how did you know you're a top 1 percenter or whatever.

So there are different tools, like evaluate market moment ranks. At the time, MomentRanks was the place to go to look up your account. So you just put in your username and then it'll populate all of the details of your account. So all the moments that you own, the percentages increase, decrease in price, where you land, from one to however many on the spectrum of percentage account. So there's some people who have like a 0.02% account and they have these huge moments, right? Well, I didn't have huge moments. I just had kind of regular things and was building as I went along, and I just happened to choose the right ones that happened to increase in value at the time.

Know your stuff.

I pretty much just kind of read Twitter and, like, at first I just followed what people would say and kind of like, talk to my husband, too, to be like, verifying, like, is this person that I should invest in? And then pretty soon it just kind of became second nature.

It's weird how the terms change from I'm hoarding Internet videos to now I'm investing those. Terms change fast, right? Yeah. I think it's funny to note because all this kind of happened really fast, but I saw an ecosystem being formed. Like you mentioned, these tools were popping up weekly almost. It felt like which is really impressive because you can imagine all the stuff didn't exist in months prior. And I'm guessing at when I started all these things, like Moment ranks were side projects that have now become full fledged companies that even some of our friends work at. Right, right. So that was really crazy. How did that tie over into. Into the non Top Shot stuff?

Yeah, so I think once I started on Top Shot and kind of became comfortable with the platform and everything, I started kind of just poking around and seeing like, well, there's, I know there's other NFTs, but I wasn't really set up for it, so I had to, you know, create a metamask, like create an account. MetaMask is a wallet that you use to connect to the platform called OpenSea. OpenSea is kind of like an ebay or like an Etsy of nft. Right. So I pretty much set myself up and started kind of browsing. And then interestingly enough, a guy named Labor James, who you might be familiar with, he invited me to his Seals Discord, which was basically a place where a lot of people kind of congregated in this private discord to kind of talk about Top Shot and other NFT projects and kind of like have a meeting room where you can kind of like break down what's happening. Because NFT was just so new. And so once I joined that discord, I feel like things really ramped up. So I was in bed one night and he basically messaged me and was like, you have to buy a board ape. And I was like, I don't even know what that is. I kind of heard about it, but I don't know, it's like 200 bucks. I don't know if I want to spend 200 bucks on an ape. Like, I'd rather use it for Top Shot. And he was like, come on, just trust me, get up, get out of bed. So transaction goes through. And then I had this like, feeling. I was like, you know what, I'm going to try and get one or two more. So I went on and I tried to grab a couple more and the transaction failed because it sold out. So I only got one, but thank God that I even got that one because I feel like life really pretty much changed after that night.

So let's put a pause there, right, Because I think I want the audience to understand what just happened. You woke up in the middle of the night because your friend pinged you and you spent $200 on a JPEG. Did I get that accurate? Right? I mean, the art's cool. The art's not cool. Whatever. You spent $200 on something you can right click copy. Was that purely off trusting your friend, or did you, like, understand this could be something somewhere, or you're literally just, you know, you're the type of person that spends $200 on frivolous things.

I am the type of person where I've always been, like, up on technology. I've always been kind of in the know about, like, new trends and stuff and stuff like that. So I didn't know that it would turn into this, but I knew that it was something because obviously a lot of people were buying it. And I was watching. I was watching the numbers drop that night that it sold out. Like, I was. It was my first case of, like, real nft fomo.

Yeah.

You know, like, watching, like, those numbers go down where it's like, you know, 7,500 out of 10,000, 8,500. So I was like, okay, something going on here. So once I bought it, the next day I had to drive to the airport. And that morning I listened to the clubhouse, the very first clubhouse that they had, the Board eight team. And then I think that's when I realized, like, this is not just a picture. Like, something bigger is happening here. And the fact there were so many people listening and they were just so excited, and I was like, okay, like, this is going to be worth my while.

They must be excited about something, right? There's enough bodies here that it must not just be.

Yeah.

So. So are you the typ of person? And I'll be the first to admit, I definitely am G. And I want to get your thoughts on this too. If you're at the mall and you see a lineup there, and the lineup's so long that you can't see, like, you know, what's at the front of the lineup, do you line up first and ask questions later? I definitely am. Like, I will loiter there for a good 15 minutes and find out. Like, I don't know, it's like a candy sale that I'm not interested in.

Yeah, no, definitely. Like, I think that when there's like a limited supply of something, it just naturally just triggers that human instinct. Like, okay, I gotta, like, get on this. Like, what is this? It creates that demand. And I think one comparison, I guess, like, you know, really back to your sneaker collection is like, raffles, right? Like, there's raffles. To get these, like, limited edition sneakers. Like, that's the closest thing that I feel like I can Compare NFT to when it comes to, like, you know, someone outside of the crypto world or NFT world, like, is like, what the heck is this? Like, why are you lining up? I'm like, it's like raffling. You get a chance to buy something really cool.

Yeah. You can't imagine how many conversations I've had with whether it's peers or my parents or something. I'm saying, so you will spend money for a chance to spend more money, right? On something that you just take home and you're going to step on like a pair of sneakers. And I go, yeah.

And the crazier thing is, like, with NFTs, it's like even more abstract because, like, with sneakers, you can wear them. There's like some kind of utility to it. But, like, NFTs are just like a different realm. Like, I remember when my first experience with Top Shot, like, Stan messaged me and he would and come in, he was like, hey, guys, just click this link and get in queue. And I'm like, what is going on? What is this stuff? And he was like, you got to buy a moment. And I'm like, okay, but what is a moment?

And I don't have time to explain. $100.

So I'm just like, looking it up. And he's like, yeah, I mean, like $100 off this. I'm like, cool, okay, free money, let's do it. And so I'm like, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm like, am I really going to spend like $15 on a video clip? Like, it's literally moments. For those that aren't familiar with Top Shot is moments are clips from the games, like NBA games. And so, you know, sometimes it's like, you know, player that's shooting a three pointer or like, maybe they're doing like a dunk. I'm not really familiar with it in basketball terms, but yeah.

She was a Bandwagon Raptors fan in 2019.

Oh, yeah. Kawaii. Yes. But yeah, no, that was definitely my experience with NFTs, and I'm not surprised. A lot of people are just kind of like, oh, like a little hesitant, but they can see that there's a demand for it.

So, yeah, all right. For sure. So you got the fomo, you, you bought the amp, you listen to this clubhouse, and you're like, there's something here. How long did it take for you to click in what that something was? And like, what, what? I think now we can kind of let the cat out of the Bag or the monkey out of the bag. Like what exactly is the Bored Ape Yacht Club today?

I mean the Bored Ape Yacht Club is probably, aside from punks, the most popular NFT to date. And they're popular for various reasons. I mean even like Steph Curry, you know, has an ape now and Steve Aoki, it's just now even part of celebrity culture. And that's really mind blowing to me still, even when I think about it. Because for us back in May it was just like a fun JPEG that we were going to hold in our wallets. And today it's become like an entire movement for technology, blockchain and art even. And membership. Membership I think is the primary utility and focus as well as community because the membership brings along with it the community. And I would say that that is probably the most important role that they play besides being a really high volume, high grossing NFT that is traded daily.

And maybe walk us through, what do you mean by traded? So you spent the $200 or 0.08 ether, whatever the transition is, that's the crypto you spent it on. What is trading? Why is it traded daily?

Well, for different reasons. Some people don't connect with their JPEG or their ape, so they decide to flip it or trade it for another. Other people really are strict about how they view traits. And so there are different traits that are assigned to this art. And so for example, some can be, I think, what, four traits? Some can be seven traits. So four traits, naturally there's less supply of those. So if you have one of those or if you have a gold ape, or if you have an ape that has a trait that no other apes have, or maybe one more has, those are valued more in the market. So I think, I don't know if I'm right, but I think nft. Anonymous his ape, his trippy ape, which is the psychedelic ape, it sold for 55 ETH. And I think that was the first instance of us being like holy. Like this can really become something much bigger. Before people were trading it for like 500 bucks, $1,000, $2,000. And then suddenly you get this six figure sale.

So 55 ETH, I just googled it as swicky, helped me stall is US$168,600 at time of recording.

Wow. Yes, at the time I think it was like 155. But you know, still like whatever.

Oh, what's $10,000 on a JPEG?

But you know, like that's, that's the first time I think that everybody kind of just like paused and they were like, okay. Like, after that, the floor just kind of went nuts, like, after that. And by floor, I mean the least amount of money that you could spend to buy that particular project just shot up. And it, you know, it's like cycles, like, it, it wanes and it ends according to crypto. I feel like, even, although I feel like bored apes is probably a little bit more consistent than crypto. So. Yeah. So trading, trading my ape for another one for profit and then buying back in, you know, for an ape that costs less has kind of become a play that people have been doing lately.

And then not, not entirely look into your bag, but just to give us an approximation. Like what that, that first $200 ape you bought, now we're looking at what, four months later? Like, what are, what are we approximately.

Looking at in terms of value four months later? That ape is probably. I don't even know what the floor is today. I haven't looked.

Wild guess. I can look.

Wild guess. So the first, the first ape that. So right now, floor price is 38. I would value my minted ape as 40. And then I have a second ape that I bought later on, and I think she's probably worth like between 60 and 70. Ethan.

So we're talking about funding small countries. I mean, not small countries, not that far. Small companies is the word I was looking for. Not countries yet. Maybe very, very micro islands, depending on where you're living. You're buying houses and things like that. So literally, when you said your life changed, like, it literally did, right?

It literally changed. Yeah.

Right. And I know we're going to dive deeper into just the market in total, but for yourself personally, how do you stop yourself? When it was $50,000, $70,000, $100,000, whatever those numbers are. How did you actually be like, I still have enough conviction to follow through with this.

Because I figured that more could be done with it. I could just cash out. Like, fine, I could cash out. I spent, I think, at the height of my portfolio, I think I had spent 8 ETH, and my portfolio was worth half a million. Wow. And, yeah, I mean, I hooked up to, like, we are going to make it, Iow, whatever it is. And I didn't even realize what I had. Like, I didn't even know until like three or four weeks ago what I had in my wallet. And then once I connected it, it was like, oh, you've only spent eight and a half eth. And by the way, you have $625,000 worth of NFT. And I think at that moment, everything that I had done before that kind of just was like validated, you know, like, I didn't sell my ape, the minted ape that I had. I traded my husband for Axie money. Axie is the play to pay game. So for me, like, I never really had it in my mind that I was going to be flipping stuff until I became more comfortable with the market. And I'm not flipping apes. I'm like looking at other stuff to flip so that I could buy more of the blue chip projects, which are the top tier projects that kind of don't give value as other ones do.

And I know Gene specifically wanted to ask you about Kiki, so I guess let's dive into that.

So for those that might not be familiar with Swiki or Kiki. So Kiki is a bored ape. And I guess, you know what, Swicky, how about you tell us a little bit about Squeaky? And how did you start? Well, I guess we kind of touched base on how we first received Kiki. But you mentioned that you had really big plans that you could see that you could make something bigger out of just it being an NFT in its own. So how did that start with Kiki then?

Yeah, I saw an opportunity. I mean, before I even bought Kiki, the night that I bought her, it was like two in the morning and I like ran down to my husband's office and I was like, I have to talk to you real quick. And he was like, oh my God, it's two. What are you going to talk to me about? You know? And I was like, there's this ape that I want to buy, but it's this much eth. And he was like, what? And this was before he really like immersed himself in NFT as well. So it was kind of crazy for me to come to him and be like, I want to spend thousands of dollars on this jpeg. And so basically I just saw an opportunity in her. You. That punk's comic was having a contest for their comic issue and I knew that they were using the apes. And when I saw her, I knew that she was like a really viable candidate to be in a comic and kind of have her own brand just based on her traits. And I really liked her. And then Ding started sweeping the floor as I'm having this conversation. And so then I got really like, nervous and I was like, we have to do it if we're going to do it, we got to do it now. And that was the last night that the apes were below 1 ETH. So I picked her up, and literally two hours later, 1 ETH it was gone. Like, gone forever. It never went back below one eth. And I just saw something in her, like a branding opportunity. I don't even think that I saw it in terms of the way that it's happened. I just saw, like, a moment where I could kind of, like, take her the distance and kind of have fun with it. But it's grown a lot since that moment.

So distance for you at that time is. There was this. There was this other project that was making comic books. I think their artist was, like, doing Marvel stuff in the past or something like that. Right. And so they were doing Marvel. Yeah, Marvel. And so. So they were doing some contests connected to ape holders, I'm guessing.

Yes.

And so you saw, like, that was. That was the end game for you at that moment, right? Like, you're like, I'm gonna buy this cool female ape. I'm gonna enter the contest. I'm gonna win the contest. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna own this thing that's in comic books. And then whatever happens, happens. Was that cool?

Yeah.

And so what kind of has transpired since then?

So ever since the Punks comic? Well, first of all, we had to shill, right? We had to promote ourselves to win the contest because there were four rounds of voting, and of course, I was up against guys every time. Male apes, Right. And so it's a little harder for the female apes because obviously there's a lot of factors at play. A lot of those people were a lot more popular than I was at the time. So I really had to, like, bear down and, like, go into every discord. And luckily, I already had just been part of many discords, So I knew a lot of people in them and had the right support to kind of, like, you know, there's a lot of factors at play. A lot of those people were a lot more popular than I was at the time. So I really had to, like, bear down and, like, go into every discord. And luckily, I already had just been part of many discords, so I knew a lot of people in them and had the right support to kind of, like, take her to Punk's comics once she won. I feel like, just really suddenly, like, within a week, like, somebody contacted me, asked me if I would be willing to put her on display in Hong Kong at the observation wheel, which she was at with about nine other apes. And then her Instagram started getting a Lot of attention. There was an event in Venice at Bright Moments Gallery, and she was up on display. And I think that's like my most engaged photo on Twitter. And then just people just started coming to me with all these opportunities and things. And then eventually I just decided, like, at some point, like, I want to get her brand high enough, visible enough to maybe sell her at premium pricing, like beyond 55e, like, what can we do? You know, I would say that at first my goal was to sell her off to an agency, like a talent agency. But the more that I'm in this, the more I realize that they wouldn't know what to do with her, but they wouldn't have the first idea how to really market her, how to use her. So now I'm kind of more leaning toward I'm just going to build her brand. And I don't know what the future holds, but perhaps, you know, an individual that sees her same branding value as I build it will perhaps want to buy her, take her to Punk's comics once she won, buy her for that premium price still.

And this is so when, like, walk me through this, because now it's. I think now it's becoming a little bit more. More relatable to someone who's not. Not necessarily in the space and maybe only understood half of what we've talked about thus far. When people are asking you to use your ape on billboards or art galleries and stuff like that, I feel like.

Just really suddenly, like within a week, like, somebody contacted me.

Are those like pay per use or is it kind of just permission?

So the Hong Kong display was permission from me because it was other board apes. Right. So, but the really cool thing about that was this was right before they announced that they were putting the apes up for auction in Christie's in Hong Kong. So once that was announced, I saw an even bigger opportunity here because our 10 apes are displayed in the Hong Kong harbor at the same time and duration that Christie's Hong Kong has now hosted these apes for auction. Now we've had the Sotheby's, the auction at Christie's. I mean, NFTs are now starting to be in mainstream art world and being auctioned off for millions of dollars. Asked me if I would be willing to put her on display in Hong Kong at the observation wheel, which she was at with about nine other apes. And then. Yeah, so that exposure for me was worth it. You know, like, I didn't need to be paid because my payment is just having people view and see her. And from There I got a collaboration for merchandising from the former co founder of Crooks and Castles and he basically is drafting up, I just got the proofs yesterday, a bunch of merchandise for Kiki. And that merchandise can work in various ways. You know, I can sell it directly for any events that we have. And the real life events I feel is like really where it's at. And she. I haven't announced this yet, but by the time this comes out, it'll be finished. This weekend we're painting a mural of Kiki on Washington and Maple in Los Angeles. So she'll be up for as long as people don't paint over her. And the artist, the street artist, he's a really well known OG artist and he was in the shoe game as well. He really changed the game for vans, designed like sports footwear for them. So he's kind of like a bigger player, but he still does graffiti art. So.

So I'll let you know. Now I'm a, I'm a size eight and a half. If you, by the time this gets out that we got some Kiki shoes, just let me know, I'll DM you my address. But like these, these. Yeah, I got a show wherever I can, right? But like these, these names that we kind of just flew by and we're just like nodding along like South, South B Self buys. I don't know how to pronounce things. South Beast Christie's, like, these are big name art auctions for those that are not in the art scene. Right. At the same time like Crooks and.

Her Instagram started getting a lot of attention.

Castles is a brand that's been in the streetwear game for 20 plus years. Like, like you can buy their stuff at I think Zoomies and I can't remember the other store journeys, all those kind of things, right? Like these are mainstream leaders in different industries all kind of converging on and all this around centered around, you know, this $200 JPEG at the beginning, like have you actually taken a step back and maybe we're doing this through this podcast episode and wondered like there was.

An event in Venice at Bright Moments Gallery and she.

How did all this come about?

Yeah, I feel like a couple of weeks ago I had like, like I woke up and I was just like, what is happening? Like I just bought like a JPEG one day and then my life literally got turned upside down. Like I had a whole routine, I had a whole thing that was happening and suddenly like all of that kind of just got turned over and. And then this Ape, who I was like nurturing to become like a star somehow, like now has like collaboration deals that like, like, I don't know, like I'm thinking about my career, like, what could I have done for myself? You know, seeing now like what I did with the cartoon, I'm just like, this is interesting. Like I. But you know, it. It all goes back to like the brand. Like it's Bored Ape Yacht Club. So people are more likely to kind of sit down and listen if they know what that means, you know. So that's something that I definitely reflected on recently. Like, I don't know how I got here, but I'm here and it just kind of keeps going.

So I guess in a way you can almost say that Kiki is now a celebrity.

Right?

Like we've been seeing in some sense, like, you know, doing the collaborations. It's almost like having a real, you know, influencer, let's say collaborating to do. Like, I know there's a lot of, for example, streaming, there's a lot of streamers that are big. Ninja comes to mind. He did a collaboration, I think with like Nike or sorry, Adidas, and they did Cloud.

He was up on display and I think that's like my most engaged photo on Twitter. And then just people just started coming to me with all these opportunities.

And so in that same sense too, like we can almost say that Kiki is that like stardom level. Yeah. So like what do you think is kind of like the current like general sentiment towards having, I guess, non human celebrities or like avatars almost? If we can call, you know, Kiki an avatar too.

Like I think Sam brought this up and I think it just becomes more relatable because at a certain point, you know, there's a lot of things and factors, like first off, she's a cartoon, so you know, there's not really like animosity or like you know, built up against like a cartoon and then she's like sort of becoming a status symbol like within the membership of bored apes. Like if you have a bored ape, like at this juncture, I think a lot of people would consider that elite. It's still weird for me to think about it that way. Like to me it's just like, oh, like something that I bought that I really enjoy, like, you know, working on. But no, like people definitely regard you differently. I think if you have like those blue chip high tier NFTs and definitely bored Ape is one of them. I think at some point I had discussed Mikayla. Mikayla is this IG Instagram personality who is like a mixed person and AI or like 3D. 3D, would you call it? 3D? Yeah, 3D things. And then eventually I just decided like at some point, like I want to get person and she's like completely made up, a complete made up personality. But they gave her a total narrative and storyline and people got really invested in that. And now she has like, I don't know how many followers, but way more than I have on my personal account. You know, her brand high enough, visible enough to maybe sell and she's become a brand in herself. Like she herself has had like merch collabs, you know, collaborations with lifestyle brands. And so for me, like, I really just saw an opportunity for Kiki to kind of become the same type of thing. And since she's blockchain, it would be like a first, you know, I don't know if I beat anybody to that, but you know, everybody's Ape is different and everybody's Ape has a different brand. And so I just noticed that, you know, her as my avatar. People definitely treat me different if I switch it out, if it's me, you know, it's, it's a different dynamic. But because it's Bored Ape as your profile picture, there's just like a certain regard and everybody wants a piece of the pie. So they'll send you messages. Can we collab? Can we collaborate? And most of the time I either ignore or say, say no because I feel like I'm doing something bigger here. And that's not to knock like them or what other people do with their apes. Is her at premium pricing, like beyond 55e, like, what can we do? You know, it's just that I have a clear path for myself and for Kiki and I just really kind of want to stay the course.

That's crazy. And just like, I think, I think.

Because you, I would say that at first my goal was to sell her.

Off to definitely, you know, in your, in your former life pre. Nft have experience with branding. Like, I, I think more than ever now we can kind of quantitatively, quantitatively say like there, there's money in it, right? Like, I know there's a large argument for, for like this is our, this is bad art. This is worth a million. This is worth $0. Right? But I think marketing and branding have a lot to. To play in that and Bored Ape as, as a project has, has proven it. Right? Like, of course, like the art is good, but I'm sure there's also Better quote unquote artists out there, right? But they're not going for the 55E that you just talked about. And that has large part to do with the entire project as a whole and all the mechanics, right? From the art to the community to the marketing and the branding, all those things can't move without each other. And at the same time, we've seen celebrities who have released NFT projects using only their brand, but spent no effort on. Maybe it's the art or the community or trying to be relatable, or maybe they set the price too high and those itself, even though they might have much bigger brands than you or I, have failed. And it's become this kind of like the NFT world has become the synergy of brand and art and community and of course marketing. And that's been kind of really, really fascinating to see. So Gene, I don't know what else you had in your question list there, but I think I derailed this again.

No, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of questions that I think we wanted to get to, but you know, we have to keep mindful of the time as well. So let's just like pick one lasso.

An agency, like a talent agency. But the more that I'm in this, the more I realize it's, you know.

Game changing question and then we'll have our traditional bits and bytes and then we'll probably have to wrap it up here. But I think it'd be awesome to maybe even have you come back for like a part two, like follow up and like see where Kiki's gone and her journey so far and like what's happened since we've had this conversation. So I guess one last thing that maybe we can ask here is, you know, for the audience members, they wouldn't.

Know what to do with her, but they wouldn't have the first idea how to really market her.

How maybe they've been, they're intrigued now. You know, we have talked about all these NFTs, big money, like Ethereum, like 55 Ethereum, like so for an audience member, like someone that's maybe like completely unfamiliar with the NFT world, maybe even like not familiar with crypto. What are your kind of suggestions or tips on how they can get started and learn about it?

Getting started, I think, of course, always buy what you like in case, you know, I don't know, like I go into it as a collector. If I ever give any advice to people who are just coming in, I tell them to really do their research and really, like, kind of immerse themselves in the community first to make sure that you know what they like and what they're seeing is not a rug pool. A rug pool being a scam to kind of just look around, join Twitter, join Discord, and really get the feel for the kind of art or the type of project that they're looking for. Once they get set up with the basic stuff like metamask and opensea, I feel like it's pretty easy to, like, browse around and figure out what speaks to you. But I would most how to use her. So now I'm kind of more leaning toward I'm just going to build her brand, and I don't know what the future holds, but perhaps, you know, an individual say to really carefully examine what it is that you're interested in and not expect to buy into something and then quickly flip it. It's really easy to get into that mindset and kind of want to do that. But I would say, for the first time, few items that they buy to really just have that be, like, collectors items for them until they understand how to work the market.

Yeah, yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. I think we spent a lot of time here talking about the crazy numbers and the amount of money that people can potentially make or not make or whatever. But at the same time, there's lots of people who are losing money as well. Right. Like, if somebody's winning, somebody's losing. Right. And so I like my take on NFTs, and maybe I'll share my own journey another day. It's actually kind of very contradictory. One is that you should always be careful of what you're buying and not just clicking things left.

Right.

Because Sam said so or Swicky said so or whatever. And of course, we'll get. We'll get your hot list in a second. But at the same time, like, I look at this market as a new type of economy and a new type of technology. I want to invest not into any specific project, but I want to invest into understanding this. Right. When we.

That sees her same branding value as I build it will perhaps want to buy.

You want to learn how to cook something? Well, we go to cooking school. Right. And that costs money. Right. Of course, we can YouTube or whatever, and there's free things. But if we want the premium experience, I want the Chef Ramsay experience. I'm going to pay for the Chef Ramsay course. Right.

Exactly.

The same way I would treat NFTs is here's $500, $200, thousand dollars, whatever it is that's appropriate for your financial means, invest that not into a project, but into your own learning. And so fully expect that when you pay for a course, you're not going to get any of that money back.

Right, exactly.

So at the same time, it's like, whatever thing you're buying, use that as how much could I extract to learn.

For that premium price still?

And this is so from this experience, right. Whether it's in the future, I have a little bit more what we would call expendable income and I want to invest in something and I'll be savvier for it, or through this experience, I meet great people, like Swicky. And now I'm learning from her. Like all those things are ROIs as opposed to the clear transactional. I put $500 in. Why am I not rich yet? Which is, I think, something that the common person should ignore because it's very easy to fall under that kind of trap because that's where people get hurt every single day, frankly speaking. So I don't want to over. Over kind of dramatize how crazy and why everybody should be quitting their jobs to do NFTs and stuff like that. But that's kind of my take on it. I know. Last question before Gene wraps up is, I think everybody here does still want to know what is the next Bored Ape project?

What is the next Bored Ape Million dollar question.

I feel like when, like walk me through this because now it's, I think now it's becoming a little bit more.

You know, there isn't gonna be another next Board Ape. And I don't say that to be like elitist about the Bored Apes. I feel more like each project exists in its own niche. Like, but projects like Cool Cats, ghosts, all that, they all reserve their own space, right? So for me, like, I feel like Cool Cats could be like the next.

Big thing that more relatable to someone who's not, not necessarily in the space.

And maybe, I mean, just last weekend I think they were like 7.5 floor Ethereum. So I. And they're building their community, but they're doing it very slowly and very gradually. So it's not like an overnight shoot. You know, it's not like something that is sensational. It's like they're really carefully crafting their community. And for me, like, I don't think that there's going to be another moment, like four to eight. Like this is just kind of like lightning in a bottle, you know, it was a moment and then we're in it and it's passed, you know, and it was like the start of something historical. Even. Even though it was after punks and Punks reserves its own historic, you know, historic pedestal. But I do think that Cool Cats is kind of a place to. To look for, like, the next big project. It's already big, but I think it's just.

I mean, it was on Time magazine.

It was on Time magazine, but, like, I don't think that it's even done there. Like, I can see like, a Disney show. I can see this, like, integrating into, like, children's programming. I can see this becoming like a household part of your life type thing. Whereas Bored Apes is a little bit more edgy, a little bit more, like, for the adult. I feel like Cool Cats can really cross over into the mainstream.

For sure.

Awesome. But I still love Bored Apes.

Not being biased.

Not being biased.

Right.

Awesome. So, Sookie, I have one last question for you. Something that we always ask all of our guests that come on the show. Just kind of like a fun question. So if you were able to create your own company and hire three people to work with you, now this can be, you know, let's say it could be another nft. It could be a celebrity. It could be a dead historian or maybe even the cartoon character. Like, who would your top three picks be for that team?

Okay, I've thought about this. I would first pick my husband because he's very detailed vision. He's someone with detailed vision and impeccable exper. Execution. So he would be like the lay of the land person. Right. I would. I know this. It might feel like a cop out, but I would definitely bring back Albert Einstein because, like, with the technology that we have now, you know, he's like the dreamer and like the philosopher and scientist.

Imagine what he could do if he.

Wore socks if he can only match his box. Yeah.

Like, bring him into this tech era and see, like, what new theories and calculations he could come up with. And the person who would, like, execute those ideas and theories is Lisa Su, the CEO of the Advanced Micro Devices.

Only understood half of what we've talked about thus far. When people are asking you to use your ape on billboards or, or art galleries and stuff like that.

She creates all those semiconductors for, like, Mac.

So those, like, pay per use or is it kind of just permission?

So PS4, Microsoft, Xbox One, like Samsung, I think, even for military devices. And so I'm just thinking, like, those people in combination, plus, like, my branding, like, I don't know, I Feel like we could like create like a whole new technological revolution. The Hong Kong display was permission from me because it was other board ape.

You literally sound like you're going to make rockets. I haven't been able to tell if it's for good or for bad yet, but. But rockets are definitely on the table.

Like maybe rockets, but like, you know, there's a lot of tech that we can still like figure out and I'm just putting a team together who I think could figure it out.

Yeah, I mean dark matter, wormholes, there's some stuff there.

I think there's some time travel.

Oh, that was what I was gonna say, time travel. We still don't have that yet, so.

Well, we know if you'll made a time travel machine because we can just make them come now.

Right, right. If I interrupt this program with myself, then you'll know. Awesome.

Well, thank you so much, Swicky for joining us today and talking to us about NFTs. Learning a little bit more about Kiki was also really amazing and definitely, I think we should definitely do a follow up episode as well. Down the road to catch up, see what's been happening in the NFT world. Maybe some of our audiences have also gone to NFTs after this episode. So really great stuff. Thanks so much for joining us and thank you guys for listening in or watching the video today. We will make sure to include Swicky's Twitter handle if you want to follow her on Twitter. And then sweetheart, is there anywhere else that maybe if someone's interested, is Twitter the best way to contact you or.

Yeah, Twitter and Instagram both are opshotswiki.

Topshots for financial advice.

Yeah, not financial advice.

Awesome, thanks so much. All right, thanks everyone. We'll see you next time.

Time. Right, so but the really cool thing about that was this was right before they announced that they were putting the apes up for auction in Christie's in Hong Kong. So once that was announced, I saw an even bigger opportunity here because our 10 apes are displayed in the Hong Kong harbor at the same time and duration that Christie's Hong Kong has now hosted these apes for auction. Now we've had the Sotheby's, the auction at Christie's. I mean NFTs are now starting to be in mainstream art world and being auctioned off for millions of dollars.

Yeah.

So that exposure for me was worth it, you know, like I didn't need to be paid because. Because my payment is just having people view and see her. And from there I got a collaboration for Merchandising from the former co founder of Crooks and Castles. And he basically is drafting up, I just got the proofs yesterday, a bunch of merchandise for Kiki. And that merchandise can work in various ways. I can sell it directly for any events that we have. And the real life events I feel is like really where it's at. And she. I haven't announced this yet, but by the time this comes out, it'll be finished. This weekend we're painting a mural of Kiki on Washington and Maple in Los Angeles. So she'll be up for as long as people don't paint over her. And the artist, the street artist, he's a really well known OG artist and he was in the shoe game as well. He really changed the game for vans, designed like sports footwear for them. So he's kind of like a bigger player, but he still does graffiti art. So.

So I'll let you know. Now I'm a size 8 and a half. If by the time this gets out that we got some Kiki shoes, just let me know. I'll DM you my address. But like these, yeah, I got a show wherever I can. Right. But like these, these names that we kind of just flew by and we're just like nodding along like South Beast, south buys. I don't know how to pronounce things. South Beast Christie's. Like, these are big name art auctions for those that are not in the art scene. Right. At the same time, like Crooks and Castles is, is a brand that's been in the streetwear game for 20 plus years. Like, like you can buy their stuff at I think Zoomies and I can't remember the other store journeys, all those kind of things, right? Like these are mainstream leaders in different industries all kind of converging on and all this around centered around this $200 JPEG at the beginning. Have you actually taken a step back and maybe we're doing this through this podcast episode and wondered how did all this come about?

Yeah, I feel like a couple of weeks ago I had like, like I woke up and I was just like, what is happening? Like, I just bought like a JPEG one day and then my life literally got turned upside down. Like I had a whole routine, I had a whole thing that was happening and suddenly like all of that kind of just got turned over and. And then this ape who I was like nurturing to become like a star somehow, like now has like collaboration deals that like, like, I don't know, like I'm thinking about my career. Like, what could I have done for myself? You know, seeing now, like what I did with the cartoon, I'm just like, this is interesting. Like I. But, you know, it all goes back to like the brand. Like, it's Bored Ape Yacht Club. So people are more likely to kind of sit down and listen if they know what that means, you know. So that's something that I definitely reflected on recently. Like, I don't know how I got here, but I'm here and it just kind of keeps going.

So I guess in the way you can almost say that Kiki is now a celebrity, right? Like we've been seeing in some sense, like, you know, doing the collaborations, it's almost like having a real, you know, influencer, let's say collaborating to do. Like, I know there's a lot of, for example, streaming, there's a lot of streamers that are big. Ninja comes to mind. He did a collaboration, I think with like Nike or Adidas and they did collaboration. So in that same sense too, like, we can almost say that Kiki is that like stardom level. Yeah, yeah. So, like, what do you think is kind of like the current, like general sentiment towards having, I guess, non human celebrities or like avatars almost, if we can call, you know, Kiki and Avatar too.

Like, I think Sam brought this up and I think it just becomes more relatable because at a certain point there's a lot of things and factors, like first off, she's a cartoon, so there's not really animosity or built up against a cartoon. And then she's sort of becoming a status.