Cash Flow Is King: Unlocking The Full Potential Of IBC | Wealth Without Bay Street Podcast

He said, libertarians, listen up. If you don't take my course and learn what I'm teaching, you're just going to keep giving money to people that don't share your ideas. I said, well, he's calling me out as a libertarian. I better take this. Just see what it's all about. So I checked out his course and something sort of clicked where I understand, well, what he's talking about is way different. And in order to really grasp it, I had to change the way that I thought, right? So he shows the example of buying a car, using financing versus paying cash versus taking a loan and taking a collateralized loan, or buying a GIC and taking a collateralized loan against that. And it's like, wait a minute, how does that work? So because I bought the course, he puts me in touch with a guy called Richard Canfield, which is a little bit later, April 15, I'm emailing Richard. And then like, April 22, I think I zoomed with Richard. And then by May 6, I have three policies and I'm fired up to do some infinite banking that's like. And that's approved policy. It's not even applied.

You are listening to the Wealth Without Bay Street Podcast, a Canadian guide to building dependable wealth. Join your hosts, Richard Canfield and Jason Lowe, as they unlock the secrets to creating financial peace of mind in an uncertain world. Discover the strategies and mindsets to a financial future that you can bank on today on the Wealth Without Bay street podcast in our client series. Tons of great feedback from all of our clients who've joined us on the client series. We are joined today by the gentleman who owns the Iron bank, as he likes to call it, Sean Summers from Niagara in Ontario. Amazing guy. He lives with his wife and his two sons out there, and he just recently heard about infinite banking in the last year or so or a number of years ago, but just kind of got up and running in the last year or so. And, you know, one of the great things I love about Sean is that he just doesn't seem to ever want to stop talking about ibc. So hopefully he'll let Jason and I get in a little bit of the conversation today. But for the most part, we're just going to let Shawn run and kind of go with it. Now, what's really cool about Sean is that he's got a real passion for helping people learn, understand personal finance. Previously, he was a trained financial coach with the Dave Ramsey Organization, taught that cash is king. Now that he understands the power of ibc, he's really come full circle to recognize that actually, really, cash flow is king. And so when you mirror the budgetary aspects of what he's learned in his past to what he knows now today about ibc, it's just this beautiful, beautiful thing. So, Sean, so glad to have us with you here. Where do you want to take us to? What's your favorite thing about IBC you want to share with everybody, first off?

Well, thanks, first of all, thank you so much for having me on. I'm really fired up. And like you say, one of my favorite things to talk about is the infinite banking concept. So I've learned so much from your podcast and from others. I'm just excited to be here to talk ibc.

It's great to have you. Now, Rich, you mentioned something about Soshan formally, I guess, having some financial experience in the Dave Ramsey methodologies, the Dave Ramsey philosophies on things. Sean, would it be okay if we started there and maybe just talked about what did you receive as inspiration as it related to the process of becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept? And how did that tie to the things that you had already learned in your experience with Dave Ramsey's methods of saving and getting out of debt? So how did this process of IBC inspire you to a whole new level?

Right, great question. So it was a while ago. Basically, maybe my scenario is same our family scenario, same as a lot of families that are young families, find yourselves in a lot of debt, find ourselves feeling like we were not in control of our finances at all. Right. So how do you solve that as a. Well, a lot of people do it. Let's get our line of credit or let's refinance our house. This has solved our debt problem. Now we're going to be great, right? But unfortunately, if you don't change the habits that got you into debt, you're gonna be right back there. Right? So we found ourselves headed back in that direction. And that's when I think it was on the radio down here or somehow I came across Dave Ramsey and his teachings. Right. And he's all about getting yourself out of debt, paying cash, term life insurance, all kinds of things. Some of the real basics of personal finance with the idea of having financial peace. It's all about financial peace, Right. So I really latched onto that and we took in as much information as we could and really gained control of our family's finances with a budget, with cash envelopes, some of these things, and worked out we no longer had any consumer, like no credit Card debt anymore. None of that. Of course we still had a mortgage and some things like, you know, like that. But you know, pledging, you know, we're not going to use debt the way we used to use it before. So a friend of mine actually across the, across the river here over in Buffalo, he had been working, he, he had gone and done Dave Ramsey's training in Nashville, Tennessee. So in conjunction with him, I actually did that myself. I went in 2009 down to Tennessee and did Dave Ramsey's financial coach training. So for a week down there, sort of immersed in how to help people get control of their finances and get that financial peace. So when I return back to here to Canada, I've taught a lot of financial peace university courses. That's sort of his brand new is in a church or in any kind of gathering, people get a kit and work their way through. How do you get control of your finances? I did some one on one help with some people as well. Really just love that ability to help people get control of their finances because it's such a source of concern and worry for so many people. It's just great to see people realize that they can have peace.

Oh, that is fantastic. And the reason, one of the other reasons why I'd ask that question is because on the Internet with Dave Ramsey of course having been, I guess, at the forefront of many financial topics over the years. And much like any other person, he has perspective, he has opinions on things. And one of the things that I find from Dave is that he does share that it's a very peaceful existence when you don't have payments, when you're not in debt and you're not beholden to a lender. And the one thing that the late R. Nelson Nash used to say was that what a peaceful, stress free way of life it is when the banks are out of your life. And so that's where I think for people that shift in the way that they think. Because if you ask Dave about the process of becoming your own banker, the infinite banking concept, his mind immediately goes to the tool that's used as the platform to implement it, which is dividend paying, participating whole life insurance. And Dave has made it very clear, you know, he's not a fan of that product. And there are many reasons why we would presume that Dave thinks that way. But it's not that anybody is right or wrong, it's just that it's a different way of thinking. And so what's so important for us to emphasize, and we like to do this, on practically every podcast, is that we have to rethink our thinking and we cannot ignore who's controlling the banking function in our lives, regardless of what we think about it or what our opinions are about it. We haven't met any single client, yourself included, who has said, I'm really not feeling much better now that the bankers are out of my life, versus the response that we get, which is, I feel a heck of a lot better. I feel more at peace, less stress, less pressure. And so could you maybe expand on that and how this process has helped you to rethink your thinking?

Yeah, absolutely. And then I think the rethink your thinking is so key. Like you guys do always say, it's because really I thought, I understand personal finance. I get it. Like, this is what you do. You make sure you spend less than you earn, don't go into debt. It's pretty basic. You know, investing is a little different, but I thought I understood it. But then through the course of coming into contact with ibc, basically the way I got here was sort of, I was. I've always been interested in economics as well as sort of like libertarian political type things. Right. So if you're familiar at all with either of those topics, particularly Austrian economics, at some point you're going to come across the great Bob Murphy. And so I came in contact through him there and realized he's talking about something called ibc. What's this? Bob Murphy's talking about it. It's got to be good. So I checked it out, and for whatever reason at the time, I wasn't ready to learn it. And I see this is something for, like, wealthy business owners. This is something that you have if you're a business and, you know, might make sense for me someday, but this is not for me a couple of years later, probably three or four years later, I don't know. This is last year, now February of 2020. I've got a little pretty involved on Twitter. And if you're involved in a certain corner of money, Twitter, where people talk about personal finance, investing, business, making yourself a better person, being more successful. I came across another friend of the show, Nate Dean.

Yes.

And he was pretty consistently promoting a course. And I'm like, why would I need a course to learn more about money? Took a course. I went to Tennessee, like, just told you guys, I don't need this guy's course. Then he tweeted something out and he said, libertarians, listen up. If you don't take my course and learn what I'm Teaching, you're just going to keep giving money to people that don't share your ideas. And I said, well, he's calling me out as a libertarian. I better take this. Just see what it's all about. So I checked out his course and something sort of clicked where I understand, well, what he's talking about is way different. And in order to really grasp it, I had to change the way that I thought. Right? He shows the example of buying a car, using financing versus paying cash versus taking a loan and taking a collateralized loan, or buying a GIC and taking a collateralized loan against that. And it's like, wait a minute, how does that work? So because I bought the course, he puts me in touch with a guy called Richard Canfield, which is a little bit later, April 15, I'm emailing Richard. And then like, April 22, I think I zoomed with Richard. And then by May 6, I have three policies and I'm fired up to do some infinite banking. And that's approved policies not even applied.

So, Sean, this is a sharp example of the human condition that Nelson described in his book Becoming youg Own Banker, when he talked about the arrival syndrome, where if a person has either developed that way of thinking of, hey, I've already learned everything there is to know, I can't be taught anything new, and a person loses the inspiration to learn something new, then Nelson would always say, well, look, it's all downhill from there. But what you just described as a sharp example of overcoming the arrival syndrome because you thought, hey, why would I need to. Like you mentioned, why would I need to take this course? But there was something there inspired you to do that, and look at the impact that it's had on you and how this process has now really changed the way that you think.

Yeah, totally changed the way I think, changed the idea of cash. Like you said, the idea from being cash being king to cash flow being king. I think just the other day you posted a picture of yourself wearing a cool shirt that says, cash flow is king. And I said, take my money. Yeah, you did. I actually have a shirt or had a shirt that said, was a Dave Ramsey shirt. It said, go green, use cash. Right? And I couldn't find it to have it here for the podcast. But now it would be cool if I had both side by side. Right? Cash flow is king, not just cash. Right. Cash is great. But when you have full control of your cash flow. I control when every payment, almost every payment now comes out of my bank account. There's never like Normally, you know, many of your payments kind of are random, right? The 6th, the 20th, the 15th, you know, whatever. But now I can say, well no, I want my payments to come out on my payday. I want to come out on my wife's, the day my wife gets paid. I want to come out on the 30th of the month. Almost all the payments in my life are controlled by me and very few are remaining that are like auto withdrawal that have to be like, oh, I hope I have enough money. So it's pretty, pretty cool.

That is awesome.

What's really cool about this, Sean? So you know, it's like, okay, we met, we had this April, you know, first contact, you know, had a meeting, several precipitous meetings afterwards to land in a position where, you know, doing some application with the insurance company. Everyone gets insured. It's wonderful thing. It doesn't always happen that fast. In case anyone thinks that that's always the case. It's not always that case.

Six days.

We do get lucky from time to time. So I think you said it was in May sometime when you had your policies activated and then what would you say probably first week of June, you had in hand first policy loans in your bank account.

Yes, I think that's probably about right. One of the very first policy loans took out was to complete the paid up additions on the other policy and then started working from there.

And since then you've now taken several loans, repaid them to your own kind of separate system bank account. He's got a spreadsheet, he's tracking everything you're paying, like your home and like home insurance, auto insurance, proper and annual property taxes. Give us a list of a couple of things. Just share with the listeners. Maybe they're thinking about this for the first time. What else have you been using?

For sure. So the simple, I mean you're right. Home, home insurance. Now the home insurance we just got because it renewed in January. So now I've just put that into the system. Home insurance, auto insurance, Amazon prime, like our water bill, right. Which isn't a monthly bill here in where I live, it comes quarterly. So I take a loan for that, repay that back into their taxes like you said, just about anything that would be a monthly expense. The gym I'm a member of, I do train, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, maybe you guys do too. I put that in there. And yeah, everything that can be paid monthly I try to put into there. Especially if there's an option to pay yearly. Insurance is the best example right. If it's $100 a month or whatever, if you pay it all up front, it's $1,100 for the year, as an example. Right. So right away you're making a savings and then you're paying, but you. But you keep the same payment that you would have been paying on the monthly. So then that interest that was going to go right to the insurance home or auto insurance company is going right into my bank. So I like that.

So you weren't working any harder. Didn't really change your cash flow. It changed the way you thought about cash flow and how you used it. But the actual cash flow itself didn't change. You're just picking up the spread and the differential that used to go to the other guys.

Yeah.

Did you have to invest any money to get that done or did you just have to invest in you?

Mainly? I invest in me, like you say, I create a spreadsheet that has, you know, every. I put a date, the date on the left side. So whether it's the 15th of the month, I get paid on the 15th and the 30th. So it's the 15th or the 30th, or it says my wife's payday. Some things happen bi weekly. Some things happen on the 15th or the 30th. Some things I just kept on the day that they were already coming out. So if it was already happening on the 21st, I left it on the 21st just because I could. So I'll put that. And then I have the payment, the payment for the full month. So if it was, you know, if I pay it twice, 50 bucks each time someone's paid, it's $100, then what does that add up to yearly? And then all adds up there as the day comes on the 15th, I sit down and I highlight in green paid. So I can see some things are auto, some things I have set up to automatically pay. Other ones I leave in my control just in case for some reason money was short, I can divert that or wait and put it off till later. Again, I could set them all up to be auto withdrawals, but I don't have to because I'm the banker, so I can do it how I want.

So speaking of being the banker, so if you reflect on knowing that you've got this system of policies, so your family banking system, you're accumulating this growing pool of financial value just keeps rising every single day. You're in a position of total and absolute control as it relates to your needs. Your family describe to listeners how that makes you feel.

I mean, like you say, it feels great. It feels as though every day, if I want to. And early on I did this more watch the cash values go up. It was very exciting because the way my wife's policy set up, we backdated it. So I've already made her next year's payment in anticipation of seeing the dividend come in, seeing the cash, the loan available go up. Right. I was actually, because I paid it early like my coach taught me to down there. It was actually a couple weeks before the number changed. So I'm like, it was every day I was looking, wait, I didn't know when it was going to change. But it doesn't change till the policy anniversary date. But no, it feels great. And it's exciting to know that if I need, if there was ever some kind of a disaster or some kind of like maybe a pandemic, I've been fortunate enough to be working essential through the pandemic. But some people aren't. But if for some reason I was off work, you know what I mean, I could just not pay for a couple months or however long till some kind of support comes in, whether it's from the government or something else, it's completely in my control. So for me, it brings the level of that financial piece that even in the former system you have, but just like a next level, right? It's sort of like you've gone to another tier of financial understanding.

I was talking to a gentleman earlier today and what you just shared reminded me of that conversation when he had said, yeah, because we always hear the mainstream financial advice, right? Save money for a rainy day. And I said, man, why aren't you saving money for sunny days too? Why does it just have to be for a rainy day? Why not save for all weather days? You have this pool of financial value that keeps going up every single day. Whether it's raining, hail, snow, sunshine, it just keeps growing. And so by creating that, you're not only, like you said, you know, you've been blessed and fortunate that throughout the pandemic, you've been able to continue working and to continue saving, continue building your warehouse of wealth. But for listeners, this is an opportunity for you to shield yourself from what comes next. And it's not siloing. You're thinking to gosh, I got to put money away for a rainy day. Get your money inside of a system where if you think about it, people are like out there chasing that next best thing. They're riding that roller coaster, get on the elevator, man. It just takes you up. That's it. And so in your case, I think what you shared is so important for listeners to grasp in terms of how this has made you feel since implementing this process in your family now.

And I want to give a real special shout out to Sean because what he shared with us earlier in the call today is he had come from a. He had invested in himself early on, in his own education, and driven by a passion to help others. And he was able to get really clear on some fundamentals, which are the same things that Nelson Nash talks about in his book, which are human conditions. Right. So, you know, Sean's stepping into this world of ibc already having a pretty good adept level at conquering Parkinson's Law inside of his financial budget, which is, you said how previously, you know, we would refinance the debt. And then we saw, well, we were going back down that same track again. Well, that's Parkinson's Law. Expenses rise to equal income, et cetera, appearing and showing up in people's lives. You had already done the necessary work to kind of build the habit of that away from you so that you could be in a habit of financial prosperity, really managing. There's an adage that says the more you manage your money, the more money you have to manage. Right. And so you already kind of developed into that process, and then as IBC comes into your life, it's like, boom, okay, great. I can take the skills that I've already developed and working for me, and I can add fuel onto it now, like, fire onto these skills in a way of growth that I hadn't experienced before. So it's amazing, and I'm so grateful to have you on the show and to be sharing your story with everybody. Cool. So good. Tell us a little bit about, you know, for all the Game of Thrones fans that are listening in. You know, you shared about how you talk about this with everyone you meet, but even in the family, I'm sure there's points, if your wife's anything like mine, where they just kind of walk out of the room because they're tired of hearing about it every once in a while. But how do conversations like this come up in the household now, Sean?

In the household? I mean, you're right. I think we've come to an agreement of. I've heard about the infinite banking. And then if you're having a meeting with Richard, that's more an area of excitement for me maybe, than my wife, but this is okay. But I do love talking about it all the different. Most of the times, maybe more so than my wife. The guy I work with, his name's Todd. Shout out to Todd. He hears me all the time say something along the lines of, you got any of that dividend paying whole life insurance yet? And so I'll just run that by him. Or I think we're getting a. We're getting a bonus in a couple weeks. I said, you know what I'm going to do with that? Buy more dividend paying whole life insurance. And he knows, right? I don't even have to tell him. So I do that as well. And then I know we talked about before about the Iron bank illustration right now, before, I mean, do you guys not have a name for your financial system? You just call it like the Canfield Family Bank? I mean, is that what you do?

I literally had a conversation yesterday with my kids and I asked my son a question and I said, well, how do we make our money? Where does our money come from? And he says, the Canfield Family Bank. I said, well, right. That's where we store it. Yep. But that's not where it all comes from. So we had a little conversation about it. In fact, I just arrived today from Amazon. I've got a little, you know, like a little cash register type money box. So I'm actually going to be instituting some new with coins, doing some things to help get the kids involved in paying the family bank back in an interesting way. It's a new little idea that I had. So.

Yeah, well, that's an interesting way of doing it, but it's not an interesting name for your bank. Okay, so we got that going. But I banked through the online banking that I use. Right. I've set up a system where I have my regular checking account that I always have another checking account. You can give it a nickname. So I called that the IBC Checking Account Works. And then they offered me the chance to open up a savings account. I'm like, sure, why not? But I can give that a name, too. And I could have written Summer's Family bank, but I thought, well, how about I call it the Iron Bank? Now why would I do that? Like you said, for Game of Thrones fans, they probably know why. But in the book, I was a fan of the books first. In the books, the Iron bank is known because they always get repaid back. The Iron bank will have its due. You can't not pay them back. So I figure if I'm going to develop the mentality of being in control. What bank, though it's fictional, is more in control than the Iron Bank. So I gave it that name, and that's what I teach my son. We have the Iron bank that we can go to. You can call it the Iron bank of Summers. That would be cool, too. Right. But the mentality is, no matter what, they're going to get paid back. You can't really cheat them. I mean, you can. I can cheat the Iron bank, but who am I cheating? I'm cheating myself. Right. So I'm not going to do it. So that's just a fun way for me of both labeling it, keeping them separate, and really re emphasizing if I take anything out of the one that's labeled Iron bank, if I make a transfer out from that, it's on paper or on the spreadsheet, and it's a loan that has to get repaid back at some point on whatever schedule the banker chooses. And the banker is me.

Oh, I love that.

And that's really cool. Takeaways, Jay. I got to jump in here. They go left. So if you're listening in this, there are a couple of really important takeaways. So, number one, you always pay the Iron bank back. But also notice how Sean is using someone else. He's using a system of pieces, a couple of different accounts. He didn't mention the policy. The Iron bank is an extension of the system of policies, so it's all interconnected. Okay. And. And the. And so the transactional aspect can happen at the you and me level. Nelson says you got to operate at the you and me level. And the other thing that I thought was really, really important there is you is the mentality. He really says that we're focusing in on having the right mentality. And we're. I'm already starting to teach my kids about this because if they get the mindset right and they're thinking is in the right way, then what you're going to create is you're going to create perpetual motion perpetuity on the Iron Bank. Love it.

Absolutely. Yep.

Well, that is an ironclad way of describing how you're using this process. And, you know, Nelson did a really great job of reminding us that this process is also an exercise in imagination, because I think what you've done really, really well, Sean, from what you're describing, and obviously with Richard being your coach and spending that quality time together, he's more familiar with your implementation of the process. But from what I'm hearing you describe, you've really embraced A number of things. One, becoming all four characters in the financial play. The depositor, the borrower, the banker, and the bank owner. And you've really demonstrated your understanding of the grocery store example. And don't steal the piece. And if a person understands the grocery store example, the rest of becoming your own banker is ridiculously simple. And so what I'm hearing you describe is just a great interpretation. Exercising your imagination, understanding the characters in the play, treating your system, obviously, as a business. And whenever you borrow capital, you have created an expectation that it's going to be repaid. You're tracking, you're monitoring that activity, and it's continually inspiring you to expand your system and to continue growing it. And so kudos to you for doing that. It's always so awesome to hear existing client stories of how this process has not only changed their lives, but what are they doing to implement it. What are some of the unique, creative ways that, that they're implementing this process in their lives? So really appreciate you sharing it.

Thank you so much. And Richard will testify. I was so excited. I've already said, how can I make it bigger? And he kind of said, let's slow it down for a tax year or maybe just see. But I am still excited to keep growing the system. Thank you so much for those kind words. You're welcome.

The other thing that I think is really important here is, so if you're watching this, if you're hearing Sean, you'll recognize there's a level of excitement in just the way he communicates about the process. And so you've also found a way to essentially gamify your financial life. You're having fun in the process of doing these things because you're taking something that for a lot of people, the moment they hear the words dividend paying, whole life insurance, you're turning it away and you look back and they're gone. Well, how did they get. It's like the roadrunner. They just take off, they're gone, they're out of the room. But the reality is you've recognized that if you, if implemented properly, using these skill sets, working from Nelson's book, the Source Material, you can have a tremendous amount of fun in your financial life and prosperity created by simply owning the tool and then utilizing the tool appropriately to make things a reality in your life. So, man, it's just awesome. And I think a lot of people are going to, going to pick up on that. They're going to recognize that you can have a lot more fun in your financial life if you just figure out a way how to make that happen.

Yeah, for sure. Like, if you had Talked to me 10 years ago and said not only are you going to own whole life insurance, one of your favorite things to do is going to be to make payments on whole life insurance, I would not have believed you.

And, well, so on that note, then, Sean, so what would you share with listeners about the, I guess the importance of educating themselves on this process? What would you share? What would your words of inspiration be?

I just really open, I think, open your mind to understanding that you don't really know it all. I mean, you obviously get people know they don't know it all, but you might think you understand personal finance. This is a change of thinking. I would say open your mind to it. Whether you're going to contact directly to ascendant, contact one of you guys directly. Get, you know, watch some more YouTube videos, listen to all the podcasts, get the becoming your own banker book one way or the other, whether you have a friend that you could borrow it from for a limited period of time, there it is. I don't have my copy here. My copies are in. The two copies I still have left are in my car. Just in case I need to sell it or otherwise say, hey, do you need a copy of this? I just had two people buy a copy off me in the last two weeks.

Well, if you run into Dave Ramsey, make sure he gets one.

I will do. He might gift one. But yeah, like, it's not a long book. Understand the, like you say, the grocery store example, that's probably one of the ones that really clicked for me is once you understand that you can't steal the peas. At work, I've actually taught, I work with young people and I've, I teach them financial literacy from time to time. I actually brought out, there was no peas in the kitchen. I brought up one of the big cans of Campbell soup. It's about like the size of my head. And I said, imagine this was for sale in a store and what would happen if someone just walked out the back with the soup? How are you going to get more soup on the shelves? And some of the kids, like, they clicked, right? You can't steal from your own business. And once you realize that being a banker can be a business for you as well, it's fun and you can stay excited and get fired up about telling people about it and doing some banking.

So good.

So another key takeaway here for listeners is like, so you're like, why is Sean selling books? Why does he have become your own banker books in your car? Well, a lot of people who get enamored with this process, they're like, can you send me some books? Like, I got people that need these books. And I'm like, okay, well, are you going to give them away?

Yeah.

All right, well, then I'm not gonna send them to you. Are you gonna sell them to people? Maybe. Well, if you sell them to people, I'll send you some books.

Oh, that's good.

See what happened? I was gonna. Yeah, sorry.

Our friend Sarglo says.

Yeah.

Oh, go ahead, Sean.

No, I don't want. A friend of mine contacted me and said, you know, my brother has this idea that we should do something with doing banking. And he's got this crazy idea. What do you think about it? And I said, is it this? And I sent her a link to the Nelson Nash movie. And I said, is it this? Yeah, I think it is. I said, well, come on over and we'll talk about it. And she took one of those books and now she's a client of someone in Ascendant. I'm not sure, but I sent her to you, Richard. And now she's working, she's got policies, because why wouldn't I tell my friends about probably one of the most life changing books I've ever read, realistically, in terms of completely changing the mindset that I had. So it's fun.

That's awesome. That's building the 10% sharp example.

Love it. So, you know, before we, we, we, we have one of our, our most important questions. Sean, I would love to maybe just ask you, you know, someone. So someone's, they're, they randomly land on this podcast completely, you know, out of the blue, YouTube. YouTube brings up as a recommendation or something like that. And they're listening to this for the first time. They've never heard about ibc. They don't know anything about what it is. If you were to make a suggestion to that individual, what would be the first thing you would recommend that they.

Do if they've listened to this whole podcast, the first thing to do, I mean, I would say listen to a couple other podcasts. Really? There's so many in wealth without Bay street that. And probably on almost every one of them, you say, get the becoming your own banker book. So at some point, if you keep listening to the podcast, I don't see how you're not going to want to get the book. So maybe the advice is get the book or is the advice listen to more podcasts? I'M not sure. Either way, get your hands on, I guess the source material. Read Becoming your own banker. Love it.

Thank you, Sean. Pleasure to be with you. Richard, do you want to take us across the finish line today?

I absolutely do. So, Sean, we all know that not all Game of Thrones characters, not all superheroes wear capes and you may not think of yourself as a hero, however you're out there. You're helping the youth today in your work, your day to day operations. You're actually literally helping people sharing this message. I certainly believe you're helping people. You're creating value for others. You're benefiting, making their life better and easier in some way. So our big question for you is share with our listeners. Who would you like to be a hero to?

I would like to be a hero, I think first to my own family building this legacy of, you know, of wealth I think is going to be changing for generations. You know, my children that I have and their children in the future, someday, I think that's really the main thing. But also just anyone that I can share with who might decide to look into a little further. Right. I think of both Nate and you, Richard, as a hero because without you, without the two of you combined, I would still just be sitting around not being a banker. But now I'm a banker with complete control of the cash flow in my life. So you guys are heroes and it's because you were telling people about it. So.

Very cool. Thanks man. We appreciate you. So excited to have you on this. I hope people get a ton of value out of listening to you and I look forward to hearing how the Iron bank continues to recoup all dollars lent from within its walls.

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, it was a pleasure. It was great to be with you, Sean, and for all of our listeners. If you look over here, there and you're on the YouTubes, you're going to see the recommended upcoming videos. So please continue to watch, continue to learn, never lose the inspiration to grow and learn something new. And I would encourage you to follow Sean's recommendations. Get your hand on a copy of of R. Nelson Nash's book Becoming youg Own Banker. The link to do that is included in every single one of our episodes underneath the video in the show notes and we look forward to connecting with you real soon. Thanks for tuning in.

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