Changing Lives For The Better Through Infinite Banking with Taran Sousa

When you think about all the times that you've read this book, becoming your own banker. So I'm really curious, like, what part of Nelson's book really lands with you?

Page three, second column, first paragraph or second paragraph, depending on how you look at it. He talks about. This book is not about an investment of any kind. It really sets the tone for the conversations that I have with the prospects and the people that I get to interact with. I actually read it with them, and then I paused and I asked for their feedback or insights after I read it. And I get varying degrees of responses, and it helps me understand where their mindset is at from that line. And it also sets a baseline that this has nothing to do with investing. So get that out of your mind. Get rates of return out of your mind, and let's talk about how you bank.

All right, folks, buckle up. Today's guest, he didn't just join the ascended team. He's literally ascended. His name is Turon. We refer to him as Tehran the Man. And he went from how do I get started as an IBC practitioner? To how do I hire someone to help me handle all the people who are asking how I got started? And so, Taran, what a pleasure it is to have you here on. On the show today. I know Rich and I are really excited for. For this conversation, and people should know something about you that we're going to unpack a little bit more in the show, but you've definitely got the passion and you've got all the enthusiasm and ambition as an IBC practitioner. And your clients really, really thoroughly enjoy how you show up in. In serving them. And your teammates just think that you're amazing. And so welcome to wealth on Main Street. Finally.

Yes, Finally. It's been a while coming. Thank you so much, Jason, for that intro, and thank you to you both for having me on today. I'm. I'm looking forward to this conversation. It's been a long time coming.

I'm.

I'm pretty excited to ask you what you've learned. You know, what if you were to sort of package up what you've learned since coming aboard the ascendant team that you didn't even know. You didn't know.

Wow. Hit me with the big guns right away. So, yeah, it's. There's a lot to unpack there, but if I. If I were to maybe pick one word, it is abundance. Abundance in. In mindset is something that I knew that was. Is always a trait that everyone should have, but I didn't. I Didn't realize how much more abundant someone could be when you're in the right environment. And I think by, by being part of the Ascended team, learning from wonderful people like yourself, Richard Sorbolo, all the other wonderful people on the Ascendant team, it really expanded my mind and helped me think beyond what my little brain could think about when I, when I. Before even joining the team.

I love that.

And look, look at how far you've come.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Incredible journey, some would say, you know, maybe you've seen some of the rockets that are launching. You know, Elon's launching into space. You know, he's even catching them on the way down now, which is pretty cool. But to say that your rise in the industry has been meteoric, I think would be the type of description I would use. So, Tehran, I'm curious. We were to ride the tape a little bit even, you know, before joining Ascendant. You know, what, what, what was happening for you then? What was. What prompted the decision to become part of the team? Why were you seeking an opportunity to even get involved in this space?

It. It all began if, if I could wind back the clock to when I was 20 years old. I got my first internship, or my first real job, as you like to call it. So for those of you who may not know, I'm a former engineer or recovering engineer, as some of our colleagues like to say. And I had gone on an internship. I was in the middle of university. I was super excited. It was the most money I would have I ever made in my life at that time. And I'll never forget my first couple of weeks of working there. There was one day I walked into work and there was this lady there, and we, we just said hello to each other, and I asked her, how you doing? She said, you know, amazing. I'm doing. I'm doing good. And then she asked me actually how I'm doing, to which I said, oh, I'm feeling amazing. With a lot of enthusiasm, like a 20 year old would, right? And her response was, you haven't been here long enough. That moment changed everything for me because I was completely caught. Caught off guard by that comment. And then over the next many months that I spent in that internship, I realized I would pay attention to my surroundings. And I started realizing that there were people in there that were there for 30, 30, 35, 40 years doing the same thing that they started doing when they started 30 years ago. And I realized in that moment that there has to be more to life than just this and that kicked off a journey of exploration for me where I went. I started getting into reading personal development books and attending networking events and seminars of all kinds of different topics that I thought was interesting. I started, that's, that's when I started getting into, also learning about multiple streams of income and you know, how someone can start building wealth outside of just working a job. And so that journey was amazing. It led to me meeting some wonderful people, starting, starting, starting my own business. I trained martial arts in the martial art of karate. And that led me down a path of having my own studio, which ended up failing, which was some lessons there that I learned as well. And so throughout my journey, I was looking, what I was looking for, what I realized is for fulfillment. Something where I enjoyed the day to day and it gave me fulfillment and a joy in what I was doing. And I got that from karate. What karate wasn't able to give me is the ability to scale further from a financial standpoint. And so that opportunity didn't work out. But like as I always like to believe that everything happens for a reason. And so fast forward many years later, now we're at, in 2020, Covid hit. And I was in engineering at that time, in an engineering position, still figuring out my life, still trying to figure out that thing that I wanted to do for a really long time. And when I got laid off, that, that was it. I made the decision in that moment that I'm not going back to engineering. And, and I said that before and I did go back, but this time was different and that's what I told myself. So I spent many months figuring out what, what it is that I wanted to do, to do. And that's when, that's when I discovered an ad for Infinite Banking or I saw Jason's face with a big smile on there about it and that's that. And it worked because I clicked. I clicked and I watched the webinar and I went through the process of becoming a client. And in that process is where I realized that this is something that everybody should be knowing about. The process of becoming your own banker, the Internet banking concept. And in, in that journey of becoming a client, I realized that this is what I want to do and this is something that checks off all the boxes. At least that is what I believe at that time in terms of helping people, being able to be fulfilled from the work that I'm doing and be having the ability to scale with the people that I was working with. And so for that reason I asked questions on how I could be part of this. And one thing led to another and I got an opportunity to work with the team. And here we are, four, five, four and a half years later.

Time flies by. Quick, thank you for sharing that. Because the overwhelming majority of our team have come from a different profession. This was not something that they, if you were to sit down with them and ask them the same question, they wouldn't have said that this was an aspiration that they wanted to be in this profession. But once they went down that journey of becoming a client and really immersing themselves in the process and saying, I'm just feeling drawn, I'm feeling pulled to share this with other people. And so if you were to contrast, you had your experience in an internship and then an experience with a studio, martial arts studio. So if you were to just contrast that. You hear the word used often. Culture. So how would you, how would you describe the day to day vibe of your ascendant team?

It's everything that I wanted, everything that I dreamed about in terms of a team environment. The people that you're interacting with within the team. I've been part of many different organizations over my journey so far and I've shared this many times with the team. I still haven't found an organization like this where everyone has a mindset, mindset of giving, everyone has a mindset of respect, everyone has a mindset of wanting to do better with their lives, whether it's personally or professionally. And I feel honored and privileged to be part of that environment. And it's, it's a, it's a complete contrast to what I've seen in the past where I've worked with teams where they had that negative mindset, you know, the water cooler drama that I didn't want anything to deal with because I just feel that it just stems your creativity and your ability to be productive. And so. But when I was part of this environment, I didn't feel any of that, at least in my experience. And that's what I value.

That's really gratifying.

It's interesting because a lot of our teammates work in a remote fashion. You know, we're, we're spread out all over North America now to a large degree. And you know, but we're connected. We're communicating on a regular basis, daily basis, weekly meetings, weekly connections, advisor training, all these types of environments you can put yourself in. So I thought it was interesting about the water cooler because the only one you can yell at at the water cooler is yourself, because the water cooler's in your own house, so we definitely don't want you doing that. So I hope that that's not taking place.

We have a barricade around the water cooler in the team support center too, by the way.

Maybe that's why there's no drama around me, because I'm the only one here.

And when you, when you think about just being, being in a position where you serve amazing people, right, like, you're dealing with a lot of wonderful clients, just like your teammates are. And what, what's the feeling that comes up for you when somebody catches it? Like, when they catch the concept? Like, they may have approached you initially and said, hey, I'm ready to go.

I'm. I've.

I've watched some podcasts, I've consume some YouTube videos. But you're wanting to get them to clarity. How does it feel when that light bulb moment happens for someone that you're serving?

That is why I do what I do, that seeing those light bulb moments is my favorite moments when I work with clients, because you know that you've had an impact on their thinking. And it's just amazing to see because you, you will meet with people that come into this with all different types of mindsets and perspectives on how the world works. And then when they catch this concept, it's just amazing to see that. That paradigm shift in their brain. Like, you can visually see it and feel it. Even though it's. Most of our meetings that I do is virtual, that we do is virtual. You can still feel that. And, and I cherish that because that is what inspires me to keep going, to keep getting better, to keep trying to be the best version of myself.

I love that.

I think Nelson would have said Rich if he were still with us, God rest his soul. We miss him. We think about him every single day. And he often said that everything begins with the way that we think. And I'm confident that had we still had time with him, he may have added to that to, to include that all progress begins when we catch it.

Yeah, I like that. I think, I think he would, he would agree and resonate with that. And it's interesting you identify how important that moment is and, and the feeling that, you know, it's a feeling for other people that you're witnessing or you're, you're. You're being pulled into. You're participating in an experience that's happening with the individual when you see it take place and, and it creates a different feeling for yourself. You know, there's a. There's A gratefulness, a gratitude, an excitement of, like, you know, there's just a. A real sense of. Of quantifiable joy when you see that thing take place. And so I'm curious, Trauma. We go back to your own experience. You. You got. You got the Facebook ad or the Jason, you know, the Jason's face ad video. You came into the ecosystem, you started learning, you did a webinar, you got yourself educated, you had some meetings with an individual. You know, at what point can you think back to when you had that click moment for yourself that you went from like, oh, wow, this is, you know, potentially a, you know, whatever. It's a. It's a scam or it's not possible or it's not real to, oh, my God, like, this is what I've been looking for my whole life. Like, was there a point for yourself where you saw that change?

I think it happened gradually in my journey of learning the concept, because the webinar was the starting of the learning. And so as soon as I watched the webinar, it intrigued me to, in order to raise my curiosity, want to dive deeper into understanding this fully. And, Richard, you'll appreciate this. You know, we talk about Kobe in our team environment, and I'm a high fact finder, so I love researching. So when I stumble upon ideas that I'm curious about, I'll go down the rabbit hole. And so that's what I did. And so I don't know if there was like a specific moment. I think it was just a collection of. Of facts and just. And logic as well. And just understanding that this just makes sense. It just logically makes sense. And I think what also helped me is my. My journey that I, That I briefly talked about, the experiences that I went through, because in that journey, as I mentioned, I learned about multiple sources of income. I wouldn't say I'm an expert at all of it, but I know enough to be dangerous, if you will, with regards to real estate investing and stocks and options and crypto. Bitcoin was something that I was diving into at that time as well.

And karate.

And karate, of course. Martial arts, for sure.

Which you literally know. Enough to be dangerous.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. There may be a drop kit coming soon, but as I was saying, I feel like those experiences helped me have a. A really good perspective on infinite banking because I. I was able to. I guess compare would be the right word, compared with the other things that I was familiar with with investing. And I know this is not an investment. We say that all the time.

Right.

But it gave me that lens to understand it, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Right. So. So I was able to understand that, yeah, this is, this is. This is not an investment, but it is still in that world of, of having an asset, building an asset, which has the, the characteristics of a perfect investment, as Jason, you like to say. And so I think all of that learning combined led me to realize that, okay, this is something that is good. And of course, I try to look at the flip side for cons and any negatives and all of that, and I was able to overcome that. And I realized that, okay, this makes sense. I'm ready to do this.

This reminds me of a question. So when Nelson was interviewed on a talk show that we used to do named Talk to the Experts, and Leslie Primo was the host for years, very long career. One wonderful host, too, by the way, if she ever listens to this. Leslie, we think you're amazing. You had a great career. And she was interviewing Nelson and she said, Nelson, okay, given that we've had this conversation regarding this, this amazing concept, the infinite banking concept, what is the downside? There's got to be a downside. Like, what is the downside? And he. He's live in the studio, and he just sort of leans. So Leslie's on the other side of the desk.

We're.

We're seated, we're all geared up in the studio, and he leans into the microphone, he goes, well, not participating. That's all that he said.

And it's, it's the awesome.

That is the absolute truth. Because we know that someone must perform and control the banking function in your life as it relates to your needs. There are no exceptions. So the downside is not participating, not regaining control of that function. And so your example was just a sharp reminder of that.

Yeah.

And if I can add to that, it's exactly what you said. It's the realization that this is banking and not investing.

Right.

Is what really helped me. And I truly believe that this is the base foundation. And I share in my client meetings that when you think about a pyramid, you want to have. You want to have a nice broad foundation so you can build on top of it. And that is what IBC is. You build that foundation and then the world is your oyster. From there, you can go as high as you want.

100% of that.

Yeah, that's so good. One of the monthly payments I make in my own banking system is actually created because of an idea that I got from Utron. And I don't remember where we were, but it might have been a group call or it might have even been maybe one of our quarterly group coaching sessions. And you, you mentioned the idea of, oh well, you know, replace the cell phone. And instead of taking the, the monthly payment when you replace the cell phone from the, the cell provider and they also want to charge you for the replacement of that phone, the insurance, you know, I don't know if, but anyone else, you know, if you're listening, feel free to type in the comments or raise your hand if you've ever smashed or destroyed a perfectly good cell phone. I've done that a number of times. I was the guy that would go every four months to get a screen replaced for a while. And, and so, you know, I'm like, well, maybe I should get that insurance to replace the cell phone. And you gave me the idea that, well, why would you do that when you could take a policy loan, pay for the thing in cash, and then charge yourself the same premium for replacement that those guys are doing. And in fact, if you're replacing your screens more often, which I was, you should increase that premium for a zero deductible. So, so that's actually something that both my wife and I do for the cell phones that we purchase now. Oh, that's so fun. We go and buy them directly and we pay ourself a higher payment than what that two year contract was going to charge us for. The same benefits.

Wow, that is, that's awesome. Didn't realize it came from me, that I'm honored. That's awesome.

Yeah. And really what I loved about it is that as an idea, first off, it, it wasn't something that occurred to me because I'd been buying cell phones for so long that that was just the way that I did. I was stuck in the paradigm of this is how you go and replace and get your next cell phone. And I didn't, I didn't even consider the fact of buying it outright. And I don't know why it never occurred to me. I just, it just wasn't, it was just like, oh, I need another one. It's time to just go do it. So number one, you, you gave me a shift in my own thinking. And secondly, I thought what an incredible and powerful way for people to get started because everyone's walking around with a computer in their pocket, everyone's making a cell phone payment. Why not use this? It's a, it's often a moderate level of, of, you know, it's a thousand dollar cell phone or whatever. So that's a pretty good target area to take a first policy loan. That's a great way to get some practice in on incorporating this concept in your life. You already have it in your monthly budget. That payment is already there, redirecting it, adding $10 to the payment so that you're paying yourself a little bit of extra spread of interest, as Nelson would say, paying for that replacement cost because now you don't have the replacement insurance. Those little things are great behavior training implementations that people can do at a, at a moderate level, a small level to get this process in motion for themselves with things that they're doing already every day.

That is really good. And Taron, I'm always curious as a teammate, when you, when you think about all the times that you've read this.

Book.

Becoming your own banker, is there one particular part of the book that really resonates with you or just continually lands with you? I'm genuinely curious when I ask teammates because the spectrum of responses is just. It's like we cover the entire book if we were to canvas the entire team. So I'm really curious, like what. What part of Nelson's book really lands with you?

Page three, second column, first paragraph or second paragraph, depending on how you look at it. Where he talks about, he talks about. This book is not about an investment of any kind. Yeah, I love that paragraph because it really sets the tone for the conversations that I have with the prospects and the people that I get to interact with. Because as soon as I actually read it with them and then I pause and I and I ask for their feedback or insights, I after I read it and I get varying degrees of responses. And it helps me understand where their mindset is at from that line. And it also sets a baseline that this has nothing to do with investing. So get that out of your mind. Get rates of return out of your mind and let's talk about how you bank.

That is so good. Can I finish what Nelson said there? Would that be okay? Or do you already have it?

I'll probably butcher it, so please go ahead.

This is so powerful. Thank you, Tron. Because now Nelson wrote this book is not about investments of any kind. Exactly what Tehran said. It is about how one finances the things in life which can certainly include investments. It is not about rates of return. As time goes by, interest rates are up and interest rates are down. But the process of banking goes on no matter what is happening. It is a well known fact that banks make more money during times of low interest rates than when interest rates are high. And so he's immediately encouraging the reader to understand that what he's going to describe is how to take control of a process, how to take control of a function in your life, and to create more abundance than maybe you ever dreamt was possible. Because the entire time, most consumers are just focused on the savings element. What am I doing to save my way to wealth? Where banks are saying, what are we doing to lend our way and charge interest our way to wealth for our stockholders? There's a massive difference between those two outcomes. And Nelson just did a brilliant job of articulating that. So thanks for sharing your favorite part of the book.

I love that.

Yeah, absolutely.

I would imagine that gravitated yourself. You connected with that the very first time you read it. But you know, what I've also discovered for myself is that the page that's my current favorite page shifts and changes over time. Have you seen that take place for yourself, Tron, over the last five years?

That's a great question. So page 17 is another one that I really like the problem. Starting to share that a little more on meetings as well. And the reason being is because it really identifies the problem, which is, you know, with the way your money is flowing in your life, regardless of what you're doing with your investments or with your savings rate, it's about maintaining control over the money that's leaving you. And most people don't see that. And that's really well explained in the problem. In the problem chapter there, those couple pages.

Yeah.

So that's the second one that comes to mind, which is what I thought about when Jason asked a question. But the first one is page three, for sure.

Love it.

Now. Now, being that you have recovering engineer status, and we're gonna have to get it. And I know engineers, they get the iron ring. There's, you know, pins and stuff you get. So we're gonna have to get one made for you. Still work, being recovering, maybe we'll have a ring of a totally different metal that we'll get for you or something of that nature. What I'm curious about is, you know, you're working with people of all kinds of age groups from all backgrounds and. And all over the country, all over Canada. So you've seen things now in the time frame that you've been doing this from all different dynamics. There's obviously common trends and commonalities with people. But what. What comes up for you? Have you encountered other engineers like yourself? What are some of the things that you find interesting? In those conversations? And what would you suggest to. Because I know Jason, he absolutely loves working with engineers. Just kidding. What, what would you encourage for someone who maybe was going through a similar experience like yourself, or perhaps they were in an engineering background, whether it was, you know, mechanical, civil, software, whatever the engineering style is. What, what would you say to someone of that nature, how they could look at this differently because you took an approach to it? And often engineers take a certain approach to it. There's a, there's an excessive level of research that must be done. So what kind of things would you suggest for an individual who is in a similar position like yourself, if they were looking at the concept?

Yeah, amazing question, Richard. I, I would say the first thing that comes to mind for me when I work with, let's call it the analytical types is they're over analytical and they, they dive too much into the weeds with the numbers and rates of returns and things like that. And what I like to share with people of that mind, because I'm analytical myself, is to focus on the logic. Focus on the logic first. Let it make sense from a logical or hypothetical standpoint and then you can, then you can look at the numbers after. As we like to say, if you don't understand the problem, then the solution won't matter and the solution really is a bunch of numbers and it won't mean anything if you don't understand the problem. So I actually love working with analytical types because I understand how they think and so I try to ask the questions that I would be thinking about that would help me and I just ask those questions to them and then I try to meet them where they're at. I try to use logic and try to stay away from numbers. And then if the logic makes sense, I say, well, the logic makes sense. So why do we need to still keep talking about numbers?

And is that usually when you ask them if they own a weed eater? For those listening in, if you know, you know that is good.

I, you know that that inspires me to share my current favorite page, which is 30, page 35. And on that page Nelson described, he said accepting a totally new point of reference means that one must develop new habits. In talking with members of the infinite banking concept think tank, we continue to notice that many are still caught up in the posture of thinking that the matter is a function of interest rates. This is a fatal error. It has to do with recognizing where money is flowing to and the failure of charging interest to yourself for the things that you buy using your own banking system anytime that you can cut out the payment of interest to others and redirect that same market rate of interest to an entity that you own and control, which is subject to minimal taxation, then you have improved your situation. You're going to need the use of money regardless of rates and it has to flow. And so it's a function of where is it flowing to, who's it being put to work for and for how long. When you are reminded of the cash value in a policy has to grow to match the total death benefit by age 100 in Canada, age 121 in.

America.

Who do you want to be in a 100 or a 121 year relationship with an institution that you co own and control, where capital is put to work for your benefit and the benefit of everyone else who co owns it. And I'm referring to both sides with.

A demonstratedly long term effective method of.

Doing that 100% where profit is an engineered outcome regardless of the rate. That's a pretty long relationship to be in with an entity. And if you co own the thing, when would you ever want to do business with someone else's entity regardless of the rate? And so that was a really good reminder of that.

Thank you.

That's been the page that's really clicked with me even most recently when I just read the book like a week and a half ago or so on a very long flight. Every, every single time I read it I get focused in on something that my brain is looking for. Right as Dan Sullivan says, your eyes only seeing, your ears only hear what your brain is looking for. And that's been a topic of conversation that I've loved diving into. And so thanks for the reminder.

I like the last sentence that you forgot to finish off with Jason, which is just like Eva, the economic value add principle. To be effective, the infinite banking concept must become a way of life. Yeah, you must use it or lose it. And I think when people hear use it or lose it, then oh well, you're going to, you're going to lose the insurance contract, you're going to lose, no, you're going to lose the right to have access to the, you know, money someone else is going to be using. You're going to, you're going to, you, you're going to lose the potential that it could create in your life because you're not activating, doing it. You're going to lose the little leaks, little financial leaks that are taking place in your life because you're not being more focused on containing the financial energy. I really think that's what Nelson means. Around this and a little bit higher up there. This all comes down to economic value add. What were the most common mistakes and when economic value add didn't work for businesses, number one, they don't make it a way of life. Most managers try to implement it too fast. We see clients, they want to go too fast sometimes. We were the ones slowing them down.

The boss, can I put all my income?

That's right. The boss lacks conviction. In this case, the boss is you. You're the policy owner. You're the boss of the banking system. You might lack conviction. Managers fuss too much. So that could be getting caught in all the weeds and all the details and training gets short shrift. In other words, you're not putting enough emphasis on training yourself and the members of your family on implementing this process over time. Instead, you're just trying to get so focused on the results rather than the journey of learning. And the journey of learning, you can't, you can't, you can't get the result without going through the journey of learning.

That's so true. So true. Toronto, I have a question for you.

Yes.

So if, if there's, if there's another, another advisor out there watching this, who is. Where you were four and a half, five years ago, what would you say to that person is waiting for them at Ascendant?

What I would say is if you're looking for a job, it's probably not the place to be, but if you're looking for fulfillment and a career and a life of growth, then this is the place to be and to embrace it and to be patient in that journey as you grow. Because as we know with, when it comes to forestry, just to pay homage to Arnold and ash trees don't grow in a day. It takes years and decades. Decades. And so that is what I would share to someone that is looking to do this is to embrace the process, trust the process and trust yourself.

Brilliant.

Yeah, very well said. Thanks.

Now, when you think about some of the clients that you've been serving, Tron, again, you're all over the map. You're helping people all over the country of Canada, but you're still a young man yourself. You know, a number of the conversations you've had, I've had more one on one. I, I get the feeling, and maybe I'm wrong here, but you seem to really kind of connect and gravitate to wanting to help people who are kind of in your age bracket a little bit. You know, they're they're coming up, they're going through that similar journey that you yourself went through where they, they had an experience walking into an engineering firm or a workplace and someone said, oh, somebody got a case of the Mondays or one of those type of analogies that made them say, huh, there's got to be something better than this around in my life. And they're going through that same kind of experience. So what is it that comes up for you when you think about helping folks in that millennial category or in some of these younger generations, as you're, as you're trying to level up and get more out of life by putting more into life, I guess is what I'm thinking about.

Yeah. When it comes to millennials, I think what we don't we sometimes forget about is how much time we have. And I know that can be a paradox in itself because life is short at the same time, but with the way life is these days, we are able to live past 80, 85, 90. Right. And so what I would say, or I would like to share with millennials is to take advantage of the time that you have in front of you and to, to be open minded in everything that you do and ask good questions. And I say that because I, I've tried sharing this with people in my circle that are around my age and it can be challenging sometimes, maybe because it's coming from me, I don't know. But I find that because of all the noise that's out there, sometimes it's a little more challenging for them to see it. And also because of there's so many other shiny objects out there as well. And I've been guilty of this and sometimes still am, is we live in a instant gratification age where we want to build wealth fast. I would say to millennials is that wouldn't be the right way to go about it. Just from learning about and looking at the people who have truly built wealth, it's taken them time to get there. And so that's why I say to take advantage of the time that you have so that you can build slowly, purposefully, but surely grow that wealth.

That's why Tehran has progressed as much as he has. He's rather insightful.

It almost sounds like you would prefer an engineered outcome. Is that, you know, and fundamentally I would think that that would be one of the things that speaking to the logic from engineers, and as someone who works with a number of engineers, some of my best clients are incredible engineers, is that really, you know, they like to have things that don't break you. You build things so that they're durable and they're overbuilt to the degree so that they can handle extra pressures. You think about the red line on an airplane. Well, that red line isn't the real red line. It's just like if you hold it in that red line for an extended period of time, now you're in the real red line. Right. And, and, and you know, you think about a bridge that you're driving over. Well, you, you know that at some point in time someone's going to have a truck overfilled with weight that was never supposed to be on that bridge. But probability that bridge is going to handle it. They just don't want to do that all the time because that's going to add additional wear and tear. So the insurance that we're talking about, you know, dividend paying, participating, whole life, it is probably one of the most overbuilt, over engineered forms of, of a financial product that exists on the planet. And I don't believe that there's another thing that can match it to the degree to which it's been engineered.

I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, absolutely. There definitely is a cushion there, which is what engineers look to do, which is what you were referring to. There's always a buffer or a cushion with anything that is engineered. And the same goes with the life insurance contracts. It's engineered in a way that it's very hard for it to fail. And the only person that can break it is the person that is that owns the contract or the policy owner, as we like to say. Right. But the insurance company has built it so robustly that if everything is done according to the contract wherein the, the policy owner makes the premium contributions, when they take out loans, they make the loan repayments, that that product is built to last. If you do it that way.

Yeah, it's so true. And especially when you deal with a reputable company.

Right.

A company that's been around for, you know, much longer than a century in some cases with carriers that we deal with in America, longer than two centuries. And that is a track record worth appreciating. Especially given that I could not personally locate a single documented instance a policy owner honoring their end of the bargain, which is to ensure that that minimum required premium ends up in the policy and the insurance company failing to honor their contractual obligations. I cannot personally think of or have ever located a single instance where that's happened. And so that provides a really high degree of reassurance to the policy owner, knowing that their behavior is far more critical than the behavior of the life insurance company. The life insurance company administers the contract. They do that extremely well. And the policy owner's behavior can really amplify that administration or create a problem. If policy owner is giving training short shrift and not making it a way of life and trying to get it done too quickly and fussing over getting mired in the muck, that doesn't really matter at the end of the day. And so, yeah, very good point to remind our listeners of the policy owner's behavior is far more critical than the behavior of the life insurance company.

One thing I'm curious about, Tron, before we, you know, look to wrap up here, I'd like to know the resources that are you have available at your fingertips as someone serving clients. You know, what have you found in your discussions with them that what's some of the value that they're getting out of all those resources? As an example, the online membership site, the podcast episodes that we do every week, the other videos that we have, regular webinars, some of our live events. You've had people attend webinars, attend live events, getting a chance to meet them in person and through these ongoing meetings and coaching. What are you hearing from the grapevine, from the clients you're serving about the impact of all these resources on helping them in their journey?

Yeah, I would say that the feedback has been resounding because of the amount of content and resources we've put out there. You know, there's no excuses to not being able to learn more about this because of the different ways of which you can. You know, we have the YouTube channel, we have the podcast, we have the, the online portal, some of which wasn't, wasn't there some years ago because when I started, I had to go through other resources to learn more of this. Right. And so we've built all this to empower the individual to, to learn this, to learn this concept and to learn it the way it should be learned. Where you're viewing it from the lens of the process of infinite banking and how it can be a lifestyle to enhance everything that you do financially versus from the lens of a product, which wouldn't be the, the right way to go about it. Because if you understand the process, you understand the problem, you will understand the solution that needs to be implemented.

Well said. Take us home, Rich.

Well, Tron, you have been an exceptional individual at, at rising to the occasion, taking in all the knowledge and, and relaying it really Effectively growing yourself and growing the people that you serve at the same time through this process. So while you showed up with a really cool shirt that says be phenomenal or be forgotten, for those of you listening on audio, which is super cool, I. There's no cape attached to that shirt that I can see. Jason, do you see one?

I. I don't see one, no. Okay, so I don't see a karate gi either.

Yeah. Now, while you have the skill set and training to become a superhero, our question for you is who do you most want to be a hero to? Oh.

So I had a feeling this question was coming because I've been. I've been listening to the podcast. So what comes to mind for me is this maybe an unconventional answer, but I love to be a hero to the person that I'm going to become because I believe. I believe that you are. You are who you are because of your past experiences and how you handle them. And so I want to be a hero to my future self so that my future self looking back will be proud of what the person that I am today, what actions that I did, the effort that I put in, because those results will be shown in the future. And so I want to always be looking back and be proud of myself and look at my past self as a hero.

That's. That's great. And it reminds me of one of the things we shared at our elite advisor coaching in Calgary. Be careful what you feed your future and you're feeding it with all the right stuff. And so, yeah, what a real pleasure to have you on the show. Tehran and everybody watching on the YouTubes, you will have seen a video show up that we're recommending to you to continue your journey of learning. There's no such thing as having arrived in knowledge. So click through that next video. Continue your exploration of the process and we appreciate you tuning in, guys. This was outstanding. Have an amazing rest of your week.