How big should my Infinite Banking Plan be?

Okay.

All right. Joined today here with my friend Roman. We're gonna talk about, well, I think something that'll be a little bit fun. Just, you know, some, you know, we get interesting kind of commentary and, and questions and things that come at us from different points, whether it's like on our YouTube channel or on the podcast or it's on an email that we receive or a conversation you're just having with, with a client. And so this is an interesting one, Roman. And you've got an individual that they, they're really interested in the concept. They're excited by it. They've been doing some research for about six months. You know, we hear that like, I've been looking at this for like two years or for, for six months or whatever. And, and I've watched all your videos and then, you know, we kind of get questions and the questions are like, it sounds like, well, did you really watch any of the videos? We're not really sure. And you know, so a person that's making, you know, about $100,000 a year, they've built up a pretty, you know, decent amount of assets. They have, you know, somewhere between 350, $400,000 worth of assets and, you know, registered accounts, some TFSA, some RSPs and these kind of things, you know, some cash set aside and, you know, wants to get started with the process, but only wants to contribute 1800, you know, somewhere like around $2000 a year. And you know, so like less than $200 a month. So it seems like a little bit incongruent when you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year. You've already obviously done something well enough to prove that you have the ability to put money away, to invest it, to, to save it in some kind of a traditional financial vehicle, and yet to only want to, you know, I guess, not even dip a toe in the water. It's like dipping the tip of your finger of your toenail, of your pinky toe in the water and then immediately shaking the water off. It's kind of like the, the, the correlation here, right? And so if you want to build a banking system and you want to start to take over the control of the banking function as it relates to your needs, you have to have some relevance to what's going on in your, in your financial life. The money that's flowing through your hands. And if a hundred thousand dollars, you know, that's gross income, like pre tax income, but you know, you've got 80, $85,000 flowing through your Hands to only be contributing, you know, a tiny fraction of that is not going to help you get very far. You know, one of my old mentors, I know you, you didn't get a chance to meet him, Roman, but Bob Shields, Robert Shields, he wrote a book called you don't have to Die to Win. In fact, we're going to be talking about him on our upcoming client coaching event here this month. And you know, Bob would say, you know, you get, you put in peanuts, you get access to peanuts, you put in pennies, you get access to pennies, you put in dollars, you get access to dollars. And so how you, how you push financial energy into the machine is going to help determine how much fuel the machine has to do anything for you. So, you know, you can't have, you can't go and create a bank by putting in, you know, little, little itty bitty bits. And it doesn't mean I don't want to sound like I'm being, I don't want to be a jerk or anything. That's not at all the case. But it's one thing if you, you, all of your resources are going to things and you're, you know, there's people that are extremely committed to different, you know, expenses or whatever. Maybe they just bought a property in Toronto and the interest rates just spiked on them and now their mortgage payment went up $1,000 a month. Like that's going to apply pressure to your life. So there are circumstances where that's the case. But if you've already demonstrated over a span of, you know, 10, 20 years to put money away diligently and you accumulated some assets, you have, you have readily available access to capital assets, then there's no reason not to look at shifting or adjusting some of those assets into a structure that is, that, that is what you want to do with your life moving forward. You want to implement a lifelong process about growth and accumulation and consistency, uninterrupted compounding, plus get a bunch of tax free death benefit. You want to do that, it's, it's okay to put some financial energy in there. And if you want to actually be able to see what results are created, you won't be able to see much of a result. If you put in, you know, your little pinky toe and you touch the water with it and pull it back away again, you're not going to really get any quality activity. There is what I'm getting at.

Exactly. And you know, and the, the big portion in this equation actually is created by uncertainty in in the markets. And, you know, interest rates are going, going up like crazy. And so they have like a variable rate on a mortgage. So, you know, I mean, uncertainty is, is, is stopping people from, from.

How.

Would I put it? Uncertainty is stopping people from thinking big. I would say is. So instead of, instead of just flowing all your, not all expenses, at least part of your expenses through a banking system, some clients are really looking to put only the discretionary income into the, into the policy. And guess what? When you put the only discretionary income into the policy, then your policy will be so small you can't really flow your expenses through it. Right? Because if you, let's say if you want to, you know, take advantage of some opportunity to track you down, and the opportunity is like $5,000. And how can you take, take advantage of that opportunity? You will probably spend your cash that is sitting in a bank, but not, you will not be able to borrow from it because you didn't create much capital. You didn't create much efficiency in policy to begin with. Your policy is so small that you can't actually take advantage of that. But if you start, if you do it diligently and, you know, and if you need access to cash, guess what, you have access to cash. If you need to make a payment or expense to pay for, guess what? You can borrow from this policy. It is not an expense. It is not something that you're locking up. It is money readily available for you. You just need to start thinking big. You just need to start doing this. And then this is what I shared with my clients so that you just really need to start doing this. You just need to, you know, have this feeling on how this works. Like, have this, like have your feet wet and, and try that. And then you will realize that you actually started to. Too small.

Yeah, I mean, and we have the advantage of obviously having policies being able to do this for a while, having, I guess, I mean, I don't want to say advanced knowledge, but having maybe just like an accumulation of knowledge over, over time. But we've never bumped into someone who's been like, oh man, I really wish I started my policy smaller. Man, that first policy got. I really wish I made it smaller. That would have been great for me. Like, I've never said that. And in fact, it's quite the opposite. And I don't mind sharing. Like, my very first policy was 4200 and I think it's 18 or $19 a year. And you know, at the time, that was a boatload of money. For me and I was transitioning from a past career and I was in, I was in a career change. But I knew after reading Nelson's book this is what I needed to be doing with my life. And I wasn't prepared to go and start doing this journey and, and trying to educate other people that this is what they should be doing if I wasn't willing to put what for me at that time was a substantial amount of capital or money into the program myself. And I knew it was going to be a long term program. And how we oper, how we have access to tools, the, the tool today that we can implement for people versus what I had whatever 12 years ago or 13 years ago, whatever it was when I got that policy, I guess, yeah, it's over 12 years now. I'll be entering my 13th year on that policy shortly is very different. And so the policy I can get today, if I did the same $4200, I could kind of tweak it a little bit where maybe it would be a little bit more robust out of the gate. But I would much prefer having the one I got 13 years ago. Because it's got 13 years behind it.

Exactly.

I can't replace the time. I don't have a time.

It's mature enough. It is mature enough. Right.

So there's, you know, this is, again, it's not about the biggest, greatest policy, but it does have to do a little bit with commitment. And are you committed to, to taking control of the banking function in your life? If you've gone through Nelson's book once or twice, if you've watched a bunch of our content, it's okay, it's okay if you don't want to do this. Like no one's going to. We're not going to send a van over to your house with some people with baseball bats. Like what? You're not going to do infinite banking? What's the matter with you? Like that's not what's going to happen. You get to make your own decisions. But if you do decide that you've done enough research and this is a path you want to go down, you're not dipping your toe into infinite banking. You're making a lifestyle choice. This is something that's going to become a fundamental aspect of everything that you do financially for the rest of your natural life. And generationally it will have a trickle down impact to the loved ones that surround your life. So it's okay to pay some premium. You know our friend James, another in their banking with Life podcast. We love those guys, James and Ryan. He's like the, the premium is the solution, right? It's the thing that solves the problem. So you want to get as much financial energy into there as you can. Structuring it, designing it with a coach, you know, someone like Roman, that's, that's how you, you put that together. But you need to be able to make a decision about, you know, injecting some capital in to get this thing off the road. You can't. Rome wasn't built in a day. But, you know, they also just didn't start with, you know, little tiny pebbles. They were moving big boulders around, you know what I mean? So there's a different way of looking at this. And what comes up for me, Rome, when we think about this topic, is page 65 of Nelson's book. Page 65 is capitalizing your system and implementation. And there's a few things that I want to highlight here that Nelson talks about. So assuming that, so we're, you can Understand, this is 92 pages and this is on page 65. Assuming that you are by now sufficiently convinced that this is a course of action you would like to take, the question becomes, how do I get started? The most important word that comes to my mind is desire. Without it, you probably can't do it. Remember Parkinson's Law back in part two? Everyone is already spending all financial resources on what he or she thinks is best. What he or she thinks is best. There's got to be honest introspection at this point and a commitment to get out of financial prison must be a burning desire. So pulling that apart, what Nelson is saying is introspection is, you know, he would talk about the word ruminate. You got to think about it. Think about your thinking. Think about what's going on in your financial life and where can you reprioritize capital? Where can you, you use capital that you're about to go send away? Can you send some of it through a policy and then access money before you send it away so that you've optimized that dollar for longer than your lifespan? Is there, is there flow of money happening through you? I can tell you that there is because it's been that case for pretty much everyone we meet. So it is possible. Does it mean that you need to go and get the largest money most ginormous policy on planet Earth? Of course not. But you know, 1800 bucks on a hundred thousand dollar salary just ain't gonna do it right. And again, it doesn't mean that you couldn't start there. But what real impact are you going to see? What real value are you going to create? And plus there's certain things, you know, Roman, I talk about this with clients all the time. There's little levels of efficiency that you can create in the size of a policy. And you know, anyone, go ahead, type in the chat box if you've ever shopped at Costco. But one of the reasons people shop at like, like a Costco or, or a, a superstore or whatever is because sometimes you can get bulk pricing. You can get more goods or goods of a higher quality at a lower per unit price. The same thing can apply to the design of the, the tool, the anatomy of the tool, the insurance contract. There are certain little discount levels that are created. We refer to them as price bands. So, you know, as an example, a hundred thousand dollar policy, a starting death benefit, is more efficient than a $99,000 one. You know that if I, if I put it in the tool and I show 100,000 and I immediately drop it to 99, the price goes up and the amount you can deposit in flexible premium goes down. So there's a double whammy of efficiency there. And, and then there's certain levels where that does happen throughout the course of things. So if you, if you're putting in the little pinky toe or the toenail in the water, you're, you're not going to reach any of these efficiency levels and so you're going to have a stunted growth again. You're putting in pennies, you're going to get access to pennies. So one more thing I want to say, Robin, I'm going to give you a chance here, but I've just, I'm on my soapbox here for a second. The follow up thing that Nelson says, the next sentence, this is going to require a change, a change in priorities in life. Recognizing that controlling the banking function personally is the most important thing that can be done in your financial world. So if this person's actually read the book now, there's a lot of con, there's a lot of meat and potatoes in this book. It's easy to glaze over certain things, but this is an important page. This page is not for anyone else but the, the, it's, it's all about you. It's the reader. It's telling you take a serious hard look at how money is flowing through your life and consider how you might have to shift some things around. Because if you want to be your own banker look, you're not in this for the short term, you're in this for the long term. And you're going to have to incorporate some long term thinking that fact. That's Nelson's first golden rule. You got to think long range.

Exactly. And, and also another thing that I'm thinking about, Richard, is that, you know, creating a system for yourself and for your family does actually change your behavior. Would you not be, would you not agree with me 100%?

Changes your behavior for sure.

So if, if when I started my policy, I would never assume that I will save more year later. The way I'm doing this now is actually, I'm thinking, every time I get paid, I think, okay, how much can I set aside in my own, my own system? Whereas later, sorry, earlier when I didn't do that, I wasn't really thinking about, you know, paying myself first. I was thinking about, you know, anything else, any exciting things I could, I could buy in this life and just enjoy my life and maybe not necessarily spend my cash. But now I'm thinking if I put it, if I spend it, that's one story that's great. But if I, if I put it in the system and then borrow to enjoy the same things, I'm not changing my cash flow, but what I'm changing, I'm changing the way flow of my cash. But at the same, at the same time, my cash creates more and more and more and more efficiency every single day. Would you not agree with that?

You, you have perpetual motion on the original dollar, right? So if I have a hundred bucks in an account right now and it's just sitting in my account, if I have an ability to inject that hundred bucks into a premium, that 100 bucks is going to buy death benefit. And that death benefit is going to be larger than, much larger than the $100. And that's going to set in motion a constant path of cash accumulation all the way until age 100. I don't care who the body is. I don't care if it's my, my son or my daughter or a policy on me or a policy on my wife. It's irrelevant to me. The contract is by age 100, whoever, whatever the person's age is now, by age 100, that cash must grow to accumulate that new number, which means I've taken $100 and I've put perpetual motion on it for the rest of that individual's natural life. Now I might own that contract. If it's on my son, it's on his lifespan. To age 100, not mine. And so I might not be here to see all that value, but I think my son's going to be. And if, and if I go early, what would you believe? Dad's already got a whole bunch of tax free death benefit in place and a boatload of money, way greater, far exceeding anything I've contributed into premium is going to come up tax free that the Canadian government can't get their hands on to my family. I think that's pretty efficient. Use of my hundred dollars. Now all you got to do is take that hundred dollars and start adding more zeros onto it. Make it a thousand, make it ten thousand, make it a hundred thousand. But you, your mindset is the problem, not the hundred dollars.

Yeah, exactly. You know, it reminds me of another example. Yeah. I was thinking about, you know, being, you know, working with a coach.

Right.

So how does working with a coach if you're not listening to your coach, how does that help you? If a coach tells you, hey, this is how much you need to, to lift today, will you be asking why so much? I don't think I will make it. Your coach knows how much you can do. It's not because he believes in you or something that he kind of feels about that. Hey, I mean, I have a feeling that you, he knows exactly what is what is what you, what you're capable of. And he assigns you different, you know, different weights to, to, to lift and different tasks to do based on your coach's experience, based on your coaches, you know, knowledge, background that you are capable of doing that. And you may be asking hundred questions. How do I, you know, how do I do that? What it takes to do that. Maybe it's too early. Maybe, you know, maybe I have to know something else to do that. No, just, just try that and see and see how, how that works. If you're not even touching the, the bar, how can you, how can you get a feeling if this is capable or if this is doable or not? Right. So trusting your coach is a very critical component where, you know, your coach can help you with your coach's background and, and experience.

Yeah, absolutely. And it, and there's so much more that goes into, you know, like I think sometimes people, and I don't, I don't know for sure, but I'm, I would venture to guess, especially if someone's new and they're still just discovering this. You know, we op, we operate in the financial industry. We have licenses, we have to, you know, we've got to fill in Checklists and we have compliance. We have all these things we got to, and obviously, hey, we, we get compensated for what we do. Like any good human being who's out there doing work in their field, you're going to get compensated. And you know, I don't know too many people that will go to work for free without being compensated. In fact, I think they're going to get pretty upset about that. And I, I, I'm happy to earn a good living doing what I do because I get to do what I love. So I feel very blessed about that. But ultimately all I'm doing is channeling Nelson's message forward because Nelson's not here to do it anymore. And I'm doing it to the best of my ability. It turns out that my ability shifts and changes over time. I feel like my ability gets better and better as I, as I age. Kind of like a fine wine. Of course I, I feel, you know, that's kind of, that's how I feel. So, so you know, we, we, we, we all get paid for what we do. And I think sometimes, or maybe there's some resistance from people because they think, you know, oh geez, you know, the insurance guy is going to get paid to sell this product like well, yeah, because the insurance company has a distribution mechanism. It's the advisor, that's the distribution mechanism. If, if there were no advisors, no one would have insurance at all. Right. And, and so of course we get compensated. And that compensation, it's built into the calculation of the premium r automatically. And we don't design that. It was designed by an engineer, an actuary for the insurance. They say, look, we, we know in order to insure Roman's life based on his age and how, you know, his non smoking status and his fight, you know, his, his family history, it's going to take us $1 to do that for this amount of money. Cool. We're not going to charge $1. We're going to charge a $10 and we're going to take that extra capital. And in that dollar it includes paying the distribution force, which is advisors, the, the, the front line people paying for administrators, paying for our building, the heat, the computer system, the technology, the tax bill paying for all those things is included in that $1. But we're going to charge more than that because we want that extra capital so that we can over capitalize the pool of money so we could put more money to work to make sure we can plan for rainy day events. Oh, I don't know, like a COVID 19 pandemic that no one planned for, et cetera. So they have this over capitalization effect and that's all baked into the premium. So I'm just bringing that up because again, some people are, they're learning this for the first time and they're, you know, you mentioned the coaching. Maybe there's resistance to coaching. But you know, the reality is we all need a coach in life and we need people to help, help us be inspired and help us learn new skills when we're, when we're walking into brand new territory. You know, you want to make sure that you've got someone with a nice big flashlight so you can see the dark, the, the dark spots where you're going to trip and fall on your face.

Right. And if you cannot see the results and working with a coach maybe for a half a year or a year, if you can't see any results, would you be frustrated working with this coach, you know, moving forward? But if your coach tells you what to do and you're not doing this, then how can you see results and be satisfied with the outcome? It's pretty much impossible. Right. So if you want to be coachable, you really need to, to, to do this, you need to try this and do more and more and more whatever the coach is, is thinking you're capable of. And absolutely, we're not trying to overstretch someone's dollars or someone's discretionary income. It's not about that. I just know that without taking advantage of the great income and great potential that this person has, he won't see any results in the nearest, maybe five, seven, ten years. Right. And he may not be super satisfied with, with the outcome. Yes, he will have a policy, he will have a death benefit, he will have a cash value, but not, not having enough to borrow and flow through his system will not give him that experience or her that experience to, you know, of that feeling of being, being your own banker.

Yeah. And I, and I mentioned Bob Shields earlier in our chat. And so Bob, he wrote a book called you don't have to die to Win. He was Canadian. He, he, he lived in St. Catharines in Ontario. He passed a number of years ago. I think it's been about five years. And he passed. I think it was, he was 80, I believe he was 86 or 87 when he passed away. He was an amazing guy. He had, he was from Scotland originally, had this crazy Scottish accent. He talked really fast like he was, it was hard to like pay attention to everything he said. But he's really, really neat guy. And in his book, you don't have to die to win, he talked about his formula for success. His formula for success was a person should be doing a minimum of $10,000 a year in annual premium or 25% of gross income. And if you just did that, you'd basically be unstoppable. And he didn't care what your income was. He didn't care if you made 40 grand a year. And he had an example in his book of someone who made 40 grand a year and did a 10k premium. And he explained how they did it and, and he, he had it, you know, he had a map of kind of how that works and, you know, whether that is exactly the path that people go. It's not the point. The point is he could, he could demonstrate the power of what that would look like in, in your loan life. Now, I did a. We did a session with Bob. We flew him down to Edmonton. This was back in 2000, and I think it was 2010, actually. It's. Well, it was like. I'm pretty sure it was September, so we're. We're talking about like 11 years ago. And him and his assistant, it was a great session. Training session was just a small amount of us in the room. And at that time, he walked us through his very first. One of his very first policies that he got, it was with London Life. And his premium was $198 a year. And the original starting death benefit was 10,000. Ten thousand dollar death benefit. Yeah. And then he went through this story on. He had slides and the story was, hey, take a look. Remember what happened in 1972? Oh, yeah, Canada, Russia, like hockey series. And he's like, oh, cool. I was there. I took a 500 policy loan and I went with two buddies and we showed up and we also got tickets to the opera and all this other stuff, you know. So he told me, he told these stories. Like every two years he was taking out a chunk of money, like 500 bucks here, 500 bucks there. But it was an amount that was greater than his premium. And he was demonstrating how this machine just kept building and building and building and building. And then he summarized it all, and he says, okay, now take a look at my illustration here. And he's like, look at, look at age. You know, my. Right now, at the time of the, at the time of the recording, he was about 81 years of age. 80, 81. And he says, hey, look at how much cash value is in there. It was I can't remember the number. I want to say it was $21,000 or something. He says, now notice it's only, it's only 21,000 going up. Instead of add a zero onto it. What if it was 210,000 going up?

Yeah.

He said had I got the hundred thousand dollar death benefit policy, my premium wouldn't have been 198 a year. It would have been 1544 a year. So it would have been a discounted value. It would have been times 10. And then he, and then he said, had I had that and had someone coach me on how to do that, I wouldn't have $21,000 in this policy. I'd have like $210,000 in this policy. And it would be growing up at $20,000 a year. Right.

Wow.

So all about the perspective. And he really drilled that home. He was a really powerful lesson. In fact, we're going to go over that. Sarbo is going to go over it in our client coaching event that we've got coming up in September. So, you know, you take lessons from people who've lived longer than you guys like Bob Shields and Nelson Nash. And I didn't live Nelson's life and neither did you, Roman, but we learned his story. In fact, you can go to learnfromnelson.com that's learnfromnelson.com and you can watch an entire seminar of Nelson as he walks you through stories just like this. And you can hear it from his mouth. And here's something that's really, really amazing. I want to share this. We talked about this on a few, I think, sessions before Roman, but when Nelson passed away in 2019, there were 17, I repeat, 17 death benefit checks paid out. And there was also 28 policy contracts or assets that were still in force that were now automatically transferred to family members that Nelson had accumulated or started throughout his lifetime. And in that example, he's created perpetual motion on money that he started with earlier on in his life. And Nelson didn't even really, truly discover this and start to really hone in on these concepts that he, that he developed until he was about 52 years old, like in the, in the early 80s. So he was already, you know, some people that, we hear people that they're 50 years old, it's like, oh, am I too old for this? I'm like, Nelson wasn't. If Nelson wasn't. I don't think you are. Right.

Yeah, you're no different.

And so I bring this up to say that the impact of that man is, it exceeds most things than what most people can do. And the key thing is this. If, if you had, imagine you had a, you know, Nelson at one time he had 49 policies and he, he gave a bunch of them away throughout his lifespan. He was able to, he transitioned over $750,000 in cash value contracts to family members while he was alive.

Wow.

They also gave over a million dollars away over their lifetime to charities and, and, and churches while Nelson was alive because he believed he was a giver. He believed in giving and tithing and those kinds of things. And, and then still there's all these death benefit checks that were paid out, plus assets still enforced that are still accumulating when, when the, their kids, you know, receive these policies, they're receiving an asset that continues to give. It's growing in cash every single day and someone else is going to die. That means there's 28 new tax free exits that are still yet to come from Nelson's legacy, not including the new policies that have been probably been created since, which are probably created from the funding source of Nelson's death benefits. Right.

Yeah.

And, and Nelson's wife, Mary, she's one of the most wonderful human beings I've ever met in my life. Just an absolute sweetheart of a human being. Like the kind of person you just, you want to hug because they're just like, oh my God, look at that smile. And just like a true gem of an individual. And you know, at some point in time, Mary's going to graduate and we don't know when it is. I hope it's a ways in a long ways into the future. But when it does happen, there's a bunch of contracts on Mary's life. There's going to be a secondary tax free event that happens for the family. And again, we're talking about this perpetual motion situation and it's, it's really incredible to know that that has happened and it can happen for you.

Yeah. You just need to, you know, remember Nelson, that just five golden rules and one of them is don't be afraid to capitalize. So if you do, then you will realize it later. But you can't really go back and change your first policy and make it bigger. You can't. You just need to realize that you just lost some potential of growth and you just need to start a new one.

Yeah. Basically. Now, Roman, I don't know if you have a few more minutes, but I see we had a question come in from one of the Facebook users. Is it okay if we bring up this question. So I'm not sure who, who put this in, but a 10k premium for five. So it's like what's better on these two scenarios? A 10k premium for five years, total of 50k in premium versus 10k of Bitcoin for five years. What's the end of the five years look like? Pros and cons. So, I mean, that's a pretty great question. But the reality is, who knows? Because I don't know what five years looks like from now. I can say one thing. I don't know what the price of bitcoin is. I personally am a little bit bullish on bitcoin. That's just me as an individual. No, no advice or anything there. I just, I have a personal interest in it. But I do know that the money going into the policy will be there. I don't know.

Yes, 100.

And I also don't know who's, who's accepting that money at that point in time. I also know that if you put 10k into a policy for 5 years, you can access a bunch of that money in each one of those years. And if you access that money and then you went and bought the same equivalent, whatever appropriate amount of value of bitcoin was, right. You would now have the policy and it would be growing for the rest of time, plus the death benefit. And you would also have bitcoin. You might not have the same amount, but you're probably going to have a pretty good correlation to those two things. So this is never a do this or do that scenario. Everything else you do in your financial life is like that, with the exception of ibc. IBC is do IBC Warehouse Capital, Access Capital, do the same thing you were going to do anyway, that is by Bitcoin. True.

Yeah.

You want to go 100 double down on Bitcoin, like knock your socks off. Go and do that. Recognize the risk that you're taking, but own it and be if it all doesn't go well, make sure you understand the situation. But if it doesn't go well, wouldn't you rather make sure that you also have an accumulating pile of asset value in a policy? And if it does go well and you have a big outstanding policy loan, isn't it easy to go. And if you want to get rid of a, you know, point 000001 of a Bitcoin and pay off the policy loan and then you still have all the value, like it would be ludicrous not to think of the Advantage of having both of these things working in your life because of the ability to multitask capital.

Exactly. Yeah. Very well said, Richard.

So anyway, that was fun and thanks for asking the question. Hopefully that was a good enough answer. Oh, it looks like someone said thank you for answering. I'm not sure why, but for Streamyard is not letting us see the names of Facebook users right now. Otherwise I'd mention the name. But yeah, I mean, Roman, this is great, man. We, we get to have so much fun. We have these conversations and I think people will learn a little bit about, again, the importance of page 65 in Nelson's book and that there's a lot you can do and that can be done when you are, when you are getting good coaching and you are, you're, you're open to continuing your education process. If something sparks you today, hey, make sure to leave a comment about that. If something, you know, it gets you excited about your own system or increasing your program, that's fantastic because I know for myself I'm always looking for a way to increase the size of my own program. In fact, I literally got a, I got a dividend. I gotta, it was a dividend. I had a dividend party this month and I just had a statement here earlier. I don't know, I don't know where I put it. But you know, I've, I've, I've put a bunch of capital into one of these policies and I got a, I don't know, it was like a four thousand dollar dividend this year, which was more than I expected, which was great. And you know, I, I have a big outstanding loan on that contract. But I'm okay with that because that policy I've designed specifically to be a windfall policy. So I'm anticipating certain windfall events and I'm less concerned about paying the policy loans off on that one right now. Not because I'm not going to, but because I have an intentional plan as to how that's going to happen in my life. So again, I get to dictate and control the terms of that as I move through time.

Perfect.

Awesome. Well, Rowan, appreciate you, man. For those tuning in, you know, once this is posted, there's going to be some magical videos popping up all over the screen that you can click on next. So continue your journey of learning and as always, thanks for tuning in.

Yeah. And reach out to your advisor today and to your coach today and talk about that. Thanks for watching.

Cheers.